Discussion with Jonathan pt 1

Discussion with Jonathan pt 1 of 3. Jonathan was a great example of the most common issues presented by Evangelicals when they adhere blindly and ignorantly to their presuppositions.

[@ProdigalSonMatt]

I always find it strange that the “reformed” theology can’t answer why the church needed reformed and why they accept reformation but not restoration.

[@CryptoCPA]

I swear this channel has been shadow banned. I stopped receiving notifications on new videos a couple weeks ago. I double checked my settings and I should get a notification for every new video. Still not getting them even for the videos posted today. Anyone else not getting notified of his new videos?

[@gbengoosewuru4139]

Me too. I occasionally have to go to the channel to see if there are new videos

[@joeriv4151]

Travis is the meanest Mormon on the internet and I’m here for it 😂

[@bambie1830]

Welp. Got my next two hours planed out now. Thanks guys.

[@curtisdecker3175]

Perfect! Just perfect!

[@Killthesefears]

Great video, great convo

[@treystone9464]

7:11 There is no divine singularity, as there are quite a few divinities and many derivative divinities in the narrative. El Elyon (Most High) appointed a Son as a King of a council of 70 sons, they are all called gods (derived gods). Yahweh "is God of gods, and Lord of lords" (Deut 10:17). Yahweh, the Son of El Elyon, the God among gods, a Lord among lords. As Moses, was "god to Pharaoh" (Ex 7:1). As a biblical "god" is an ordinary noun applied to other ordinary things and does not mean the two are equal. The Isaiah denial verses (Isa 43:10-11) are correct, Yahweh is incomparable to other elohim of the council, such as in wisdom (Job 38-39). So, "among the gods" in the council, Yahweh has no equal (Ex 15:11). Yahweh is portrayed in as being installed as a Judge (Dt 33; 2-5; Hab 3; Zech 14) the most feared member of the council (Ps 89:6) and their King (Ps 29:12; 89:6-9; 95:3; 96:4; 97:7; 148:2). The elohim-gods are the council of Holy Ones (Ps 77:14), plural beings that are under the Holy One of Israel (Isa 5:19; 1 Enoch 1:3; 4QEn(a)). The Masoretic Jews altered one of the two great songs of Moses, its oldest parts that were appended to the Book of Deuteronomy. When Elyon first divides the nations after the fall of Babel into 70 parts, the Masoretic texts say they were being divide into that number of portions according to the number of the "children of Israel [bene Ysrael (H#1121+3478)]" (Deuteronomy 32:8) The Septuagint says the "angels of God" (LXX, Deuteronomy 32:8). The Dead Sea Scrolls say they were the "sons of God" (4QDeut). "[Yahweh]" received Israel as his allotted inheritance from His Father Elyon as one of these Sons of El (Deuteronomy 32:8-9). Yahweh was chosen to be the "God of Israel" (Ps 147:19-20) while the other 70 nations were "allotted" to "other gods [elohim]" (Deuteronomy 29:24-26). There are other altered verses in the Masoretic Deuteronomy, when Yahweh sits as king and judge to avenge and atone his land and people on the Day of Atonement, "Praise his people, O ye nations; for he avenges the blood of his servants, and takes vengeance on his adversaries, and he will be merciful [(H#3722) expiate, atone] unto his land, and to his people" (Deuteronomy 32:43) they've redacted all references to the Sons of God. The Septuagint read "Rejoice with him heaven. Bow down to him, sons of God, rejoice with his people, nation confirm him, all you angels of God, because he will avenge the blood of his sons, he will take vengeance upon his adversaries, he will repay those who hate him, and will purify the land of his people." (LXX, Deuteronomy 32:43). The Dead Sea Scrolls reads, the "blood of his sons" and "bow down to him gods, the sons of El" (4QDeut[q]) The other gods are depicted as the satanic rivels of YHWH (Job 1) and the Psalmist of 82 calls for "Elyon" to punish the gods of the nations, via a fall, and for YHWH to inherit them all (Psalm 82). The foreign gods are called the Demons in Haazinu (Deut 32:17). "They shall sacrifice to demons, gods which they did not know". Then they are named (vv. 23-24) "They shall be) wasted with Hunger, fought by Reshef, and Qeteb (and?) Meriri." Resheph is a known name of a Canaanite god, who is known in the Bible as a demon shooting arrows of disease (Hab 3:5, Job 5:7). The others appear again in the Bible (Hosea 13:14, possibly also Job 3:5). Ba'al is the god of Phoenicia, and Jesus acknowledges him as a real person, also a demon (2 Kings 1:2-3, 6, 16; Mark 3:22). Long Deuteronomy 32:43 is in the Septuagint concerning an old story of an angel that was made a divine, "let all God's angels worship him" and is copied in the New Testament as a proof text for the divine premortal Jesus Christ (Hebrews 1:6). Before we found this passage in the Dead Sea Scrolls, it was assumed the Christians were adding innovate verses. It was doubted the Jews would or could have dared tampered with their own scriptures. Unfortunately, the Dead Sea Scrolls don't contain all the Hebrew scrolls to verify all the scriptures, but it is enough to prove the truth. The Jews really were deleting passages that were favorable to Christians to hide that the Old Testament describes a pre-incarnate Christ who is a God who has a Father who is a High God. 70 Bene Elohim The Bible does mention how in the days after Babel, the earth was divided into 70 lots (Genesis 10), or 72 nations (LXX, Genesis 10; Luke 10:1) by the Sons of God in the days of Peleg (Genesis 11:1-7). The human courts of law, the Seventy Elders of Moses (Ex 24:10) and Two Prophets (Number 11:26-29), the Seventy (m. Sanhedrin 1:6) or Seventy Two Elders of the Sanhedrin (m. Zeb 1:3; m. Yad 42), and the Seventy Elders of Christ who are sent as ambassadors to the Seventy nations (Luke 10:1) are all modeling themselves as the earthly counterparts of a heavenly law court (1 Kings 22:19-22; Psalms 82; Job 1:6-12; Daniel 7:9) as each of the seventy nations had an angelic representative (Daniel 10:20-21; 1 Enoch 89:59; 3 Enoch 1:240; 30:2; Apocalypse of Zephaniah 1:502; Exodus Rabbah 21:5; Leviticus Rabbah 29:2; Deuteronomy Rabbah 1:22; Targum Jonathan to Genesis 11:7-18; Talmud, b Sanh 99b; b. Ber 16a/17a). Isaiah taunts the "morning star" the divine patron over Babylon that is cast down from trying to set himself over the star-sons of El and Elyon (Isa 14:14) and is cast down. The celestial "prince of Tyre" is condemned for thinking himself to be God (Eze 28:2-10) who is distinct from the "king of Tyre" who is being punished for corrupting his wisdom (Eze 28:12-19). Yahweh roused the "spirit [single] of the kings [plural] of the Medes" is the angelic patron of Medes (Jer 51:11). The heaven and earth are seen as counterparts, when a nation rebels against Israel, its angelic patron is likewise rebelling (Dan 8:3, 20-21) like the "prince of Persia" who withstood Yahweh and required one of the Archangels, Michael, to aid him (Dan 10:13). T Illaya and the Watchers Daniel calls God in Aramaic "[Illaya (H#5943) Elyon]" who rules the nations of the earth by means of the "gods (H#426)" (Daniel 4:8), which he also calls the "holy ones [(H#6922)]" and the "watchers ['irim (H#5894)]" (Daniel 4:13, 17), these gods throw down the King of Babylon for his pride (Daniel 5:18-20). Elyon rescued his servants by sending "a Son of God" (Dan 3:35; 6:22). Christian Gods The earliest Christians were not strict monotheists either. Justin Martyr, for example, was not afraid to refer to Christ as a "second God" and "another God" (Justin Martyr, The First Apology of Justin XIIL) In Origen's time there were still Christians, including himself, who were not afraid to refer to Father and Son as "two Gods in one sense and one God in another sense." (Origen, Dialogue with Heraclides). This theme is found in many of the texts of the Early Christian Fathers of the first centuries. The clearest explanation has to be the Jewish Christian document by Pseudo-Clement. In which, Peter debates with Simon Magus. Simon makes a claim that in Jewish scriptures that there are many gods, "There are also many other testimonies which might be adduced by the law, not only obscure but plain, by which it is taught that there are many gods. One of these was chosen by lot, that he might be God of the Jews [Deuteronomy 32:8]. But it is not him that I speak, but the God who is also his God, whom even the Jews themselves do not know. For he is not their God, but of those who know him." (Clementine Recognitions 2:39). Peter explains that the Most High God is the God of the Jews, but there are also several intermediaries that are called "gods", and that the word "god" is being used with several meanings, "For every nation has an angel to whom God committed the government of that nation; and when one of these appears, although he be thought and called God by those over whom he presides, yet being asked he does not give such testimony of himself. For the Most High God, who alone holds power of all things had divided the nations of the earth into seventy two parts and over these he hath appointed angels as princes. But among the to one among the archangels who is greatest, has committed the government of those who before all others, received the worship and knowledge of the Most High." (Clementine Recognitions 2:42). Though you may question whether if this was truly spoken by Peter, this explains everything. Christians lost the idea that Yahweh and Elyon were distinct by accepting the new Masora Torah as official where Yahweh was the only god within it. Christians then had to explain how Christ was both; the God of the Old Testament, yet not the same as the Father. They chose poorly, embracing the paradox.

[@germanslice]

God and his Son and the divine Council are separate beings. The Born Again Evangelists don't fully understand how Omnipresent Beings can be separate have different roles yet also be omnipresent. They don't understand the basics of God's Kingdom of society. .

[@mikeb6826]

Man I need this to study it more. Tell me when it’s on your blog!

[@treystone9464]

@@mikeb6826 I have no blog. I attend forums, like the Mormon Dialogue forum.

[@mikeb6826]

@@treystone9464 just put the link in so I can copy it

[@treystone9464]

@@mikeb6826 If I post a link, youtube will delete it. Just google Mormonism Dialogue and Discussion Forum or "mormondialogue"

[@Wylistens]

I get so excited every video that’s posted

[@Killthesefears]

Key and Peel clips on point, esp that first one😂

[@Killthesefears]

The kids received but he’s cool. (I’m less than halfway in)

[@Killthesefears]

16:30🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣