Disney/Lucasfilm's Broken Canon Promise: Why should fans be angry about this?

[@macwelch8599]

The biggest problem with this issue of broken promises with Disney is the company blaming the fans for everything

[@zef9151]

No one trusts Disney at this point except paid shills

[@dereklopez9060]

It's clearly not the fan's fault that the people at Disney are such incompetent morons who can't do anything right. It's like a chef blaming a customer that the food came out distasteful.

[@ChosenOne-il4bm]

Star Wars is a myth I am lovin it Different versions of the story Being told Different perspectives Canon Legends Visions

[@macwelch8599]

@@ChosenOne-il4bm ok…

[@ellugerdelacruz2555]

​@ChosenOne-il4bm Too bad that doesn't excuse bad storytelling.... I believe that Continuity and Worldbuilding are closely tied together... And as a youtuber named The Closer Look once said, "...it [gives] us the context we need in order to care." Warhammer can get away with this Roshmon Effect because it has the capabilities and talented writers to do so, and even then retcons are rarely done. Warhammer's case isn't so much as changing the cannon as it is adding your own unique piece to the grand puzzle- like a D&D session. Star Wars isn't like that, and therefore can't just do the same thing.

[@aaroneclipse514]

Dave Filoni wanted to retcon Plo Koon’s death, but Lucas told him no. That tells you a lot about this guy.

[@gameragodzilla]

I remember watching the video “How TCW doesn’t fit in Legends” where the guy pointed out Filoni even brought back a character who died in AOTC with no explanation. lol In that case, George gave the go ahead, because at that point I think George himself no longer cared much about Star Wars. There’s a reason he sold Lucasfilm.

[@KenBen0bi]

@@gameragodzillaWho was it that was brought back?

[@ihaveafettfetish9348]

It’s always about Filoni and his characters. Ahsoka, his overrated Rebels characters, Cad Bane, Fennec, etc. Meanwhile, the OG’s like Luke, Boba, Han and the other OG Bounty Hunters like Bossk, Dengar, 4-LOM, and Zuckuss are all nowhere to be found. Ghosted and nerfed. Not to mention he gives his characters unlimited plot armor. Ahsoka will most likely be the one to kill Thrawn. Filoni is far from being the one to save Star Wars. Not to mention he copies so much from LOTR. Ahsoka will never hold a candle to Gandalf.

[@kingkusnacht]

@@KenBen0biusually one would assume when bringing dead characters back Maul comes to mind, but since AotC is mentioned specifically I might venture Eeth Koth as a guess, who‘s republic gunship was shot down. He never appeared in episode 3, so was presumed dead.

[@gameragodzilla]

@@KenBen0bi Eeth Koth, whose dropship was shot down in AOTC but he shows up alive in TCW. In fact, I suggest watching this guy’s entire series on why TCW doesn’t fit in Legends, since he goes over how much Filoni ignored Legends continuity for that show. Again, he largely got away with it because the show was both good quality and more mainstream, but this tendency of his was there as far back as 2008, hence why Legends fans like Captain Fordo/Manda-LORE doesn’t like it: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pGnEYZqXlpWiorcsi=oRQcwA_5mT9yK1RN kzbin.info/www/bejne/q5u1p3mXqdxlmZosi=fN00RiGKJMTaMpaK (29:00 in this video is where he talks about how Eeth Koth was revived even though he died in AOTC).

[@dereklopez9060]

When Sam Witwer told Dave Filoni that the official canon has to be consistent, he wasn't kidding.

[@SixerMason]

I'm pretty sure he backpedaled on that stance, sadly.

[@elfather2045]

Remember than Sam Witwer origirinally have to correct Filoni because he was about to do a terrible continuity mistake about no knowing that Shmi alreary knew Padme in episode 1.

[@saberiandream316]

There's a clip out there where Filoni kinda rubs it in everyone's face that he likes to break continuity. Seriously.

[@moffjendob6796]

Doesn't matter; Dave still sees it as a joke.

[@keepmovingforward1722]

@@SixerMasoncan’t blame him if he wanted to stay employed

[@Paul_McSeol]

The EU may have had some canon and continuity issues but it had heart. The creatives seemed to actually care about the IP whereas Disney seems to be basing this all on what focus testing and committees believe people want to see.

[@Stlaind]

And a problem here is that if making the old EU into Legends to make way for a new canon really was the goal.... the new canon really isn't more coherent. When does the next reset come? And the next? When do movies start being moved into some alternate continuity? There can't be many resets before fans stop being able to keep track or care about the setting.

[@grzegorzflorek5623]

​@@StlaindBoom! Bullseye! You have just said what I thought for quite a while. That if the point of Disney canon was to make coherent Universe, and that's why they got rid of EU, then they failed utterly, because Disney canon is inferior to EU.

[@saberiandream316]

@@Stlaind A question DC and Marvel fans are asking now.

[@strategicperson95]

@@saberiandream316 haven't they been asking that for years?

[@saberiandream316]

@@strategicperson95 Probably. I know reception to the New 52 was kinda mixed, tbh.

[@vonsowards1297]

So… Option 1: it discards the book and over writes it. Problem: why should I buy the books? Option 2: It retcons the death and contextualized get coming back (I.e she never actually died or has been resurrected) Problem: that’s dumb and sets expectations that no one dies. Option 3: it’s a flashback or it’s not actually her (i.e. it’s a clone or an android). Problem: deceptive marketing/bait and switch

[@jneumy566]

I could make the argument that in such a technologically advanced society, wouldn't it be harder for people to actually die anyway? They replace limbs like its nothing, they have tanks to soak you in the heal most wounds and even scars in a few hours. They have hundreds of different kinds of droids with all kinds of functions to perform surgeries. Look at Grievous. Man is literally just a head and vital organs. How do you think he managed to survive whatever horrendous thing happened to make him like that? Whatever kind of surgical procedure or life support that somehow kept him alive as his organs were transplanted while still attached or the machine built around him or however he went from organic to machine. If Grievous can survive as just a head and organs, I don't find it unbelievable that death in general is a less common thing in the Star Wars society.

[@Daniel_Huffman]

I'd like to point out that in other industries, deceptive marketing is in fact illegal.

[@darthdiculous6511]

The reason canon and consistency matter is that the main reason a story is interesting is because actions have consequences. If you can continually reshape and ignore previous events or decisions then why should I care about what happens to your characters or the decisions they make? When the next writer can just come along and wipe it all away there are no stakes. When "no one ever really dies in Star Wars" then pivotal moments built into your story, like the death of a main character, lose all of their impact. This is basic storytelling and it's amazing that people who claim to be "professional writers" don't know this. Or maybe they're too caught up in their own BS to care.

[@Sci-Fi-Mike]

"Nobody really dies in Star Wars...except Qui-gon Jinn." 🤦‍♂️ Continuity allows actions to (hopefully) have consequences. For many people, it makes them feel more invested in the characters and the adversities they face.

[@juyll]

Lazy writers hate having to do research homework in general. This is especially true when they are not fans of the project and they want to change it.

[@jayt9608]

Most, though not all of the authors of the EU actually tended to do research and either took steps to play nicely in the sandbox or set themselves in a corner with their own toys that no one else touched or would occasionally pay an homage to in another novel. In the Bantam era, a lot of authors tried to stay out of the way and not contradict one another, while in Del Rey, there was more cooperation between authors. Even Dark Horse did not launch its own contradictory canon, though it had the most canon breakage that needed creative reinterpretation or banishment, though some of the stories from Adventure Journal, Gamer, and others had issues with canonicity.

[@shannonmcelroy8454]

I'm not going to pretend that doing homework is an easy or pleasant experience a lot of the time. That'd be absurdly unfair. What I will say is that if there is no attempt even made to reach out for consultation or collaboration in working on something previously set up by another, then there really should be no question as to where the fault lies.

[@Daniel_Huffman]

@@jayt9608If anything, I find that doing the research makes what would seem like a tedious and arduous process into a rabbit hole of discovery. It's a little like finding a lightsaber crystal that isn't blue or green: If you want a unique crystal, you must go out into the Galaxy to find one, which is an adventure in and of itself. And your sandbox analogy gives me the amusing visual of Dave Filoni giving the phrase "I don't like sand" a whole new meaning.

[@lordcarnorjax8599]

One of the authors of The High Republic book put out a tweet with the cover of the EU book The Courtship of Princess Leia and asked who the "Fabio looking guy was" on the cover, which any EU fan could of told him it was Prince Isolder. This is a guy who helped plan THR, has access to internal LucasFilm resources and access to one of the best fan Wiki's out there in Wookiepedia yet he was so lazy he just put it out there for his Twitter followers to answer. These are the types of creative that now work for LucasFilm. Also this guy once bragged about making "silky Jedi head scarves cannon" and chucked a major tantrum when his non binary character got gendered in French & Italian translations of his first Star Wars book.

[@ryvlaw]

I feel like the "new canon" has already more continuity problems then the EU had after how many years?

[@jayt9608]

It had major continuity issues less than three years after The Force Awakens.

[@Daniel_Huffman]

Many of the pre-2014 EU's unresolved continuity errors came as a result of _TCW,_ and the overwhelming majority of the ones prior to it were comparatively minor and were able to be reconciled in subsequent sourcebooks. Most of the claims about the former EU "having no continuity" are either exaggerated or flatly untrue, and were usually the result of deliberate fabrication or just plain bad research.

[@GAdmThrawn]

@@Daniel_Huffman Yes, this is something that not a whole lot of fans know or really understand when it comes to the EU continuity.

[@Boomerrage32]

@@Daniel_Huffman I think paying special attention to the EU's continuity errors at the expense of other issues such as power creep and tonal problems sorta misses the mark a little bit. Take Starkiller for instance. Motherfucker is able to pull down a Star Destroyer from low orbit. That just seems a bit excessive. Regarding the tone of EU writings, there have also always been a lot of Jedi-bashing going on in the EU. I feel like Lucas always intended for the Jedi to be the good guys but various EU writers made them out to be selfish and overly political, almost like they're actually the bad guys all along. And I don't think Star Wars was ever that deep. To borrow a phrase that Ford said to Hamill during the filming of ANH "hey kid, it ain't that kinda movie". I mean, don't try to make Star Wars seem cleverer than it actually is. Order 66 is continuously watered down. Imagine the impact of this event if only Yoda and Obi-Wan survived. Instead we're constantly treated to a slew of stories regarding Jedi survivors and it all just dilutes Order 66. I just named three examples of problematic elements of the old EU. I don't wanna call them continuity errors, I just think they're problematic, and I see Disney doing all the same things with the new canon.

[@Daniel_Huffman]

@@Boomerrage32 Contrary to popular belief, Galen Marek did not pull a star destroyer out of orbit. In the context of that scene, that unpowered star destroyer was already falling from the sky, and all Marek did was force it into a nosedive. It took all of his concentration and energy to do this and not pass out from the sheer exertion, and he still only barely managed to avoid getting crushed. Furthermore, other characters, some more well-known, have performed both equivalent and superior feats of telekinesis. After all, Yoda _did_ say, "Size matters not."

[@johnriley8713]

Canon is what makes these stories important, connected, and impactful. Canon gives constraints, gives a framework. Instead, SW Canon has been more of a Disney gimmick. And let's not even talk about all the "brought back to life" characters we've had.

[@kurtmccathron3781]

Without canon you just have fanfictiction

[@MMZERO9]

A good thing Miguel O’Hara doesn’t exist in Star Wars then. He’d be fit to be tied. 😄

[@Naruku2121]

The word Canon gets a bad rep lately from what I've seen. Though I argue that Canon is a lot more important than what people gives it credit for, like as you said. Canon gives stories the glue that binds overarching stories together. If the writers can't be bothered to maintain the integrity of the stories they've made. Then why should the audience? And at that point it unravels the investment people had in decades worth of stories in nearly an instant. It's why Comics can become a joke once they keep rebooting and tossing out stories every couple of decades to even half a decade if you look at DC. Though you can have the opposite effect as some places goes with the 'Every thing's Canon' stance. When in some instances would introduce more issues than it solves because they try to reconcile pieces that just can't unless they actually try to re-work issues from the ground up. Though when a company pulls the 'Every thing's Canon' card it usually means they realize they messed up the intergirty of their stories so bad that instead of solving the issues they just put a blanket over it and call it a day.

[@joeandrew8752]

i mean at this point canon is just whatever applies conveniently. They want everything they make to have the value of hard canon to make you watch it cause now it could impact the whole universe but dont have the skills or put in the effort to make it consistent with what came before, making so many things not make sense. Its just a means to sell, not an actual quality at this point.

[@ellugerdelacruz2555]

2:08 I believe that Continuity and Worldbuilding are closely tied together... And as a youtuber named The Closer Look once said, "...it [gives] us the context we need in order to care."

[@hectormontes7056]

This is a classic Filoni move. Most continuity errors are because of him. Comic book and book authors, the people behind the Star Wars Jedi series, all care about canon, implementing different parts of canon without breaking it. My theory is that Dave Filoni sees himself like George Lucas, where everything that he or George didn’t make is beneath him. Lucasfilm seems to agree, unfortunately.

[@elfather2045]

Yes that's exactly what i belive as well, seems like Filoni's is started to believe that crap that some fans said about him being the "sucessor" of George Lucas, he is so delusional that he thinks is stories are above the rest .

[@saberiandream316]

He does see himself that way, as a George Lucas clone, meaning he has full right and authority to retcon whatever he likes purely on the basis that he WORKED with George (when he's not the only one to do so), and he's lied, oh God, has he lied. He encouraged Sam Witwer to break continuity, make something different because "it's like a campfire story" and then during some interview about the EU he claims if he's going to use it, he doesn't want to make it "completely different." He is such a hypocrite. I *_DESPISE_* him.

[@ThreadBareHope1234]

Same. It's actually sad that so many other shows, games, and comics try to continue or stay in line with CW despite how inconsistent it is with stories on a higher tier of canon and itself, at times. Stuff like the Nightsister massacre I can live with, but remembering what had to happen to lead to that gives me a headache

[@emberfist8347]

The mindless Filoni bashing. Are you going to ignore Andor retconned his established backstory?

[@ThreadBareHope1234]

@@emberfist8347 I didn't know that. I'm not saying it isn't just as unmindful. I was just never following Casian's story.

[@LM-1378]

There's defintiely a very post-modernist "reality can be whatever I want it to be" attitude that seems to have become ingrained in the modern Disney Star Wars writer's room. It's a far cry from the more historical approach that the 90s and 2000s EU authors, writers and lore managers semeed to take. My best hope for current canon is that these new writers focus on writing excellent stories first and come up with crearive retcons for the stuff that they've trampled on already.

[@cylonmode]

Broken canon promises and lack of consistency... Star Wars is a behemoth of content and DIsney can't get out of its own way.

[@steele8280]

The continuity/canon is important because if the creators don’t care, eventually the fans will stop caring too. Not because of some entitlement or nostalgia, but if a story only matters within the self contained story, people will stop caring about the connective stories because they will be contradicting each other.

[@RoboticDrift]

This is it. I've been saying for years, from TFA to Kenobi: if the people making this stuff don't care about Star Wars, why should we?

[@Unchainedmaple888]

I'm super detached from any and all of this because everything still leads to Jake Skywalker attempting to murder his sleeping nephew. Don't get me wrong, I like Bad Batch but it's leading to Palpatine clones and I don't read any of the current books. Only books I adhere to are the Expanded Universe books.

[@drp1bb856]

We watched Kenobi destroy the OG canon. I thought Lucas had sellers remorse until the movies and shows came out. Instead of being proud that a talentless clown like Kennedy made it to the top of a major studio that wasn’t good enough. She wanted to shit on the talented people that helped propel her to the top just by association.

[@saberiandream316]

Filoni's the one breaking canon here, Kennedy is not making the major story decisions here - she even admits she runs them by Dave Filoni first, and always has.

[@cartersminis]

The prequels completely rewrote the OG in so many ways.

[@EternalEmperorofZakuul]

​@@cartersminishow can you say something so . . . . . . . . . . . . Brave honest intelligent

[@keepmovingforward1722]

@@EternalEmperorofZakuul - Kenobi’s master being Qui Gon (later fixed by EU writers) - Leia not meeting Padme (later fixed by EU writers) - Kenobi looking fairly young (later fixed by EU writers) - Midichlorians (later fixed by EU writers) - R2 flying (later fixed by the EU) - the chosen one prophecy (never mentioned in the OT…but fixed by the EU) -

[@EternalEmperorofZakuul]

@@keepmovingforward1722 chosen one prophecy ruined the EU since the sith came back

[@jaredlocke4300]

Dark Disciple legit made Ventress a favorite character for me. Undoing her redemption and death is unnecessary and shitty

[@theunknownuser9609]

Same, dude

[@hockey1973]

Us: We want a consistent story and canon. Disney: NEEEERRRRDDDDDD!!!!!!

[@darko-man8549]

When something retcons something I read or watched it doesn’t detract from the enjoyment I had in the moment, it does, however detract from my reflective enjoyment - how I feel overtime. Overtime with constant changes it makes me think, “what’s the point in investing in the universe if a story I want continued or expanded on just gets blown out the window because someone thinks they can do it better?” For anyone who is into 40K - the space elves had a story that involved trying to bring back a god to defeat another god; but that story was then used as a mechanism just for the “Human Empire’s” story (the Empire that the company in charge already gives 90% of its writing and attention). The story was then abandoned and ignored from the space elf perspective. It feels bad that I wanted this story to go somewhere but am stuck never knowing.

[@rykiyo]

I was initially excited to see Ventress’ return in Bad Batch Season 3 trailer. Subsequently learning about her supposed death left me confused, so I read Dark Disciple over two days, and I found it to be a fantastic story and closure for Asajj. My initial excitement turned to frustration, as it diminishes the poignant closure her character had in the book. The inconclusive wording in the Star Wars articles seem to make it clear that it’s not a flashback, but straight up resurrection purely for the sake of recycling recognizable characters. It’s a shame that this has become a trend.

[@АлексейМомот-щ7о]

If only creators and casuals could read as fast as you lol

[@kodyshaw6991]

​@user-yq9im9dk9z It's only an 11 hour audiobook. That could easily be done in 2 days, especially if you have a long commute/drive for work.

[@blythepineda9929]

"The dark side of the force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be... unnatural."

[@jamie1224]

I feel this way 100% on the continuity. I like to build lore on top of previous lore, not replace it.

[@sealionstudios8597]

Dave Filoni has become Darth Plagueis: he has discovered how to keep the ones he cares about (too much) from dying...in his stories, not in real life obviously

[@strikeflyer]

It's funny how Disney made canon in the first place to be "cohesive and have a clean continuity" which turned out to be the biggest lie. Why should I bother with canon if a majority of the stories will have the chance of being retconned because the show writers don't care about the stories of other people that make the books and comics. Also the Unreliable narrator thing feels like a cop out thats there to excuse bad writing.

[@saberiandream316]

Filoni shared in that lie. It's all there in the foreword to A New Dawn, and make no mistake, this is HIS retcon, not theirs. Kennedy is just a tone-deaf rubber stamp and Disney is an abstract, Filoni's the one who's behind this.

[@Daniel_Huffman]

One of the most egregious examples of this was when _TROS_ retconned Poe's backstory from the established tie-in material. I find it frustrating more so because it was very easily avoidable: Lucasfilm could have mandated that the backstories of the new trilogy's characters not be touched until all three films had been released, or at least if given permission by the higher-ups.

[@doomsdayrabbit4398]

​@@Daniel_HuffmanThat would have required them to have a plan.

[@merafirewing6591]

​@@doomsdayrabbit4398 which they probably don't have a plan at all.

[@FFS-Vert]

The books have become very important to me over the last few years. I was having major sleep problems and listening to star wars audiobooks has completely turned that around. Plus some of the books from the EU and new canon have been really good. Especially anything from my guy Timothy Zahn. Of course I’m biased, but it’s really irked me to see how little the people working on tv shows seem to care about the importance of canon novels.

[@thealexgundam5006]

Well because they aren't really or at least in term with Disney. Most people are focused on tv shows/films/ and games not novels or comics. You can even see them doing same for marvel comics in which their dying, but aren't making any progress to change that. It suck, but it is what it is. saves me money for other thing I say.

[@saberiandream316]

Filoni promised he wouldn't do this in the foreword to A New Dawn, and yet here he is, doing it. And no one's calling him out over this.

[@FFS-Vert]

@@saberiandream316 i have been, but yeah I guess a lot of fans don’t really care

[@saberiandream316]

@@FFS-Vert Most fans are brainless normies who just want the pretty explosions and flashing lights.

[@ricklipa2024]

Just about all of Disney/Lucasfilm creatives are hypocrites. First they officially relegated all EU material to "legends" so that they could tell all of their own stories as canon. Then many of the creatives decided to continually borrow from the legends and use those characters and they even reworked story lines. Of course the retcons came too and not just from the new canon novels and comics but they had no issues retconning parts of George Lucas' work too. The Kenboi series is the worst because it retcons parts of both the PT and OT. All of this is done because as Thor states, these creatives are selfish to the point that only their story matters. They don't care what came before, plus they all know that bringing back established characters can be a big draw for views, even characters that seemingly met their demise in previous canonical work. Now it looks like the most recent evidence for this is Ventress. Time will tell if a legitimate explanation can be provided if she is indeed still alive in the story.

[@saberiandream316]

Filoni made the EU "Legends" long before Disney.

[@JediSayla79]

It's like watching multiple fanfiction authors fighting each other over whose headcanon is better, but at the corporate level.

[@5hane9ro]

A canon that is consistent is what makes a universe feel "real". As soon as you break major canon events, the universe stops feeling "real". That "real" feeling is what allows for immersion.

[@AndreNitroX]

The expanded universe had its own consistency issues as well, but the stories were so great it could be forgiven. When Disney cut off the EU they promised a more consistent canon, and we accepted that. Not only did they fail to keep that promise, but they have made more inferior content that doesn’t even try to connect that it is much more noticeable.

[@achaudhari101]

“Great” is a stretch. There’s like only three things in the EU people like while the rest is either questionable or forgotten.

[@thealexgundam5006]

@@achaudhari101 Lmao that sound a lot like Disney canon vs the EU lol.

[@saberiandream316]

Filoni made those same promises in the foreword to A New Dawn, yet here Thor is, blaming DISNEY and LUCASFILM for that instead of Filoni as well. SMH

[@EternalEmperorofZakuul]

​@@achaudhari101you're right. And the only good thing Disney made is rogue one. Everything else is forgettable

[@achaudhari101]

@@EternalEmperorofZakuul There's a bit more than just Rogue One. Andor is certainly not forgettable.

[@moffjendob6796]

The novels are basically reduced to what they were in Star Trek in the 90s: a thing with the brand on it that no one working on the screen productions is even the teeniest, tiniest bit required to observe... but you better believe the books need to bend around what silver and small screens do!

[@lightningleopard]

Hopefully they explain why, maybe a flashback, of why Ventress is back when she died before episode 3. I’ve also been rereading the Thrawn trilogies and just got to the part with Ahsoka in Thrawn Alliance and had to reread that GIANT section multiple times and it’s very clear in that chapter that Thrawn knows who exactly Ahsoka is, her race, age, abilities, power, and affiliations with people. Which makes it more sad for the Ahsoka series

[@АлексейМомот-щ7о]

Thrawn is really Batman.

[@lightningleopard]

@@АлексейМомот-щ7о basically 😅😂, that an amazing and hilarious comparison

[@_Feanor_.]

I don't remember her even being in that story at all, because when it was written she didn't exist yet. Hmmm

[@lightningleopard]

@@_Feanor_. your joking right? 😂😂

[@_Feanor_.]

@@lightningleopard The books came out 91,92 and 93. Ahsoka first appeared in 2008.

[@jayhartRIC]

Even if the story doesn’t break canon it still can thematically cheapen those stories.

[@seancrowley3142]

The ST destroyed a lot of continuity in the Star Wars universe. That’s why I will personally never accept it. It’s been quite obvious that Disney doesn’t care about continuity.

[@thibaud1832]

It turns out the old EU system of varying levels of canon was actually a perfect solution and thus there was no reason to get rid of the EU wholesale.

[@АлексейМомот-щ7о]

It's not perfect, G-canon is a stupid idea because it included even thoughts of George Lucas. Imagine George thinking some stupid thing trumps the Thrawn trilogy. Then because Dave refused to play ball they created a level just for Dave Filoni. That's not a good solution to solving a problem, firing Dave Filoni for refusing to play ball is.

[@thibaud1832]

@@АлексейМомот-щ7о I agree with the first paragraph, especially since Lucas kept contradicting himself and changing opinions.

[@saberiandream316]

There was a positive - Filoni couldn't butcher any more EU stories for his own selfish vision.

[@_Feanor_.]

@@saberiandream316 isn't that what they are doing though? They brought in this inferior version of Thrawn, who is an EU creation. If these Rey movie script leaks are real that sounds a lot like Jayna and Jacen Solo. The Petty Jenkins movie that was supposed to be about Rogue Squadron, they got EU books about that Squadron as well. Looks to me that they are perfectly willing to pick things from the decanonized EU and bastardize them for their own goals.

[@saberiandream316]

@@_Feanor_. They aren't being shoved into the EU's timeline, though, because they're being rewritten in the context of Disney Star Wars canon. Filoni's changes during TCW were VERY unwelcome.

[@Rich_H_1972]

Those that think that continuity, consistency and stuff making sense are not important should stay away from anything to do with the creative/writing process. They are incompetent at best, arrogant hacks at worse.

[@jneumy566]

Agreed. I'm working on my first book myself and I think at times I go a little overboard on making sure it makes sense. One time, I needed to know how long it would take my character to get from one place to another in my world. So I looked at the map, measured the distance according to the scale, then I figured "well, he's on a horse" so I looked up the average speed of a horse, crossed that with my distance, then figured "it's winter, so it gets dark sooner, and there's dangerous dragons around, so he won't want to be riding while it's dark" so then I looked up sunrise and sunset for the specific date that I had this taking place to decide when he'd be setting out and when he'd start finding shelter each day, added extra time for resting the horse, and that's how I got an average travel time that I then went with every time this character had to roughly go that same distance. I did a similar thing figuring out the distance to some islands in my world. I needed an expedition by boat to last about a month, but also needed flight by dragon to be about a week. Long story short, I googled average speed of Columbus era ships, looked at my lore document to see the top speed I listed for that dragon species, did a bunch of mph to knot conversions along with distance and time to finally get as close as I could to the ship taking a month and the dragon taking a week. Consistency is very important to me as a writer because consistency means realism and realism means investment. You could also say I'm safeguarding against future nitpickers who'll do just as detailed a breakdown to try to find plotholes.

[@Killerfin100]

Continuity is so important because you can't get invested in a story if it makes no sense. For example, I used to love doctor who, it had it's fair share of continuity issues yes, but they were pretty small and didn't really affect too much in the overall story. Then a certain showrunner introduced a retcon that creates hundreds of plot holes and continuity clashes with pre established lore that had been around for decades. Now the show makes no sense anymore and nothing has been explained and there are tones of gaping plot holes that the writers just have not addressed. This has completely nuked my interest in following the storylines going forward. My point is you can't get invested in something that makes no sense and the story telling is all over the place. It's just messy writing.

[@MKojiro]

Retcons can be employed well. There's a handful of times where clever retcons fixed issues or pulled things together to make things better. But there's innumerable- and I'm not just talking SW- where things were changed for not reason other than the person in charge a) could do it and b) wanted to do it. They often create more issues than they solve and are tricky to implement, like time travel, which they are a kind of form of. It's telling to me that so many clashes in the culture war over franchises originate in new writers going back in time and changing things.

[@mazkeraid4039]

There is nothing wrong with retcon by itself, but it has to happen for a reason that should be followed.

[@Steel-101]

The thing is I’m cool with retcons. Only if they’re done well and if they add something really cool to the timeline of any franchise. Sadly the majority of “retcons” from Lucasfilm have been terrible.

[@macwelch8599]

Especially with Obi-Wan fighting Darth Vader too early in the timeline and protecting Leia instead of Luke

[@DZatheus]

@@macwelch8599 the fact that he actualy LEFT tatooine for that is crazy. His stewardship of Luke was supposed to be his whole purpose between ROTS and ANH.

[@Steel-101]

@@macwelch8599 exactly! that is a prime example of a bad Retcon.

[@macwelch8599]

@@DZatheus I agree

[@emberfist8347]

Like having Andor be a lost boy instead of a former Separatist terrorist.

[@diyapia]

I’m still heartbroken, crushed, and deflated from my one viewing of TLJ on December 14, 2017….

[@balrogsareop4773]

"The last remaining canon books will be hunted down, and defeated!" - Dave Filoni

[@bramderacourt9499]

I just love how Filoni went from " this guy is gonna save us from kathleen kennedy" to " same problem,different flavour.".

[@annatar9365]

Filoni didn't care about continuity since TCW

[@davidb9639]

Poor Christie Golden; first they took Sword of the Jedi away from her, now their retconning her first book for the Disney timeline.

[@achaudhari101]

They didn’t say they retconned it.

[@Lord-Emperor-Vader]

I am currently towards the end of a massive Star Wars rewatch including almost all the canon movies shows and audiobooks and it has been so much fun (I have done the same for Legends) and the few holes made are annoying.

[@ThomasBravoGaming]

Remember they killed the EU because of “to many inconsistencies” then Filoni goes and does stuff like this

[@Deuteromis]

​@@dutchrjenI read an article that came out a little after TFA came out where they interviewed Pablo Hildago, the guy in charge of the lore. He said the reason they scrapped the EU was that it was too hard to transition the books to film.

[@АлексейМомот-щ7о]

​@@Deuteromisdid they try? 😂 How did they know that?

[@Deuteromis]

@@АлексейМомот-щ7о I always just attributed it to them just talking out their ass

[@saberiandream316]

@@dutchrjen I hope you include Filoni on that list, because he literally fits all the check marks you put down.

[@mcash232]

The best example of someone who has made a shared universe is Brandon Sanderson and his Cosmere books. He's able to tell big stories and "little" stories that don't interfere with each other and there's a great deal of variety. Granted, he's one guy, so there isn't as much argument or issue as something like the MCU or Star Wars. He does have help, of course, and Lucasfilm better get the same kind of help to keep them honest if they or other big companies want to get the big bucks. They'd better buck up and remember/learn how to tell a good story instead of trying to play the market or appease their high-class friends/political movements.

[@Blisterdude123]

One of the best examples, actually, was probably the Star Wars extended universe prior to the Disney purchase. Several decades of novels, comics, videogames, films, and other material that 'mostly' managed a kind of core consistency, with so many disparate and varied creative voices involved and contributing to it, for years and years. Seamless? Of course not, but miraculously coherent? Yes.

[@railfandepotproductions]

What do you think of the fandom menace and anti sjws Also which political movements, state as always had politics

[@MarvinNoFun]

Lots of franchizes have some core canon (for example, movies, TV-shows) and extended canon (books, comics etc.). And usually fans are used to the idea, that an extended canon work may be sacrificed at any moment, if the writers decide that they have a better idea for the core canon or simply didn't bother to read a certain book or comic book. But with old Star Wars Expanded Universe it was different. Despite certain inconsistancies, the EU was so coherent that a lot of fans didn't even doubt its canonicity. The fact that so many Star Wars geeks loved the EU as much as the canon films proved that such coherence was an excellent selling point. That's why a lot of us, me included, were very dissapointed when the EU was discontinued. As soon as that happened, not matter what Dysney promised, I knew that they would not bother much about canonicity, coherence and all that jazz with their new stuff. If they could just declare such a huge amount of fan-loved material "Legends", what's stopping them from disregarding their new canon works in a similar manner? That's why, of all the new SW material, I follow only films and TV shows. At least they are coherent within themselves. As for books and comics, I read only the old EU, and, thankfully, there's still so much of it that I haven't read, that I probaly wouldn't finish it in a lifetime.

[@Sci-Fi-Mike]

I agree with you, Thor. Consistency is incredibly important, especially since Disney purchased LucasFilm. Otherwise, this galaxy doesn't make sense, and the Expanded Universe (or Legends) is still as valid as anything in the Disney era...

[@Ceyrenn460]

How you explained the shared universe of Star Wars is how I felt and got into Star Wars and the old Expanded Universe. I am aware that TCW is a good show, but I can't get into it because it retcons so much I grew up with. I see characters in TCW that are just share the name of someone in Legends, they aren't the same character and it breaks in illusion of a shared universe for me. I am well aware Legends isn't perfect and it has some flaws, but nearing its end just before TCW and slightly after before the Disney buy out, that was the shared universe I fell in love with.

[@akshatdogra]

I have paperbacks for the Thrawn Trilogy and that was how I got into Legends in terms of novels. The Legends Novels Timeline given at the start or end of the Legends books is exciting, if sometimes overwhelming to look at. Still, having read 8 Legends novels now, I love tick marking them on my copy of 'The Last Command'. So, the idea of a connected overarching story itself is very intriguing and there are indeed head canons but if the makers of the stories themselves are retconning lore that they themselves made, it becomes rather cluttery, what would have otherwise been a neatly arranged narrative.

[@MedalionDS9]

"Somehow... the stories connected"

[@JeffSense]

I actually read the first 4-5 years of Disney canon books, but as all these shows came out and changed all the ideas from them, I legit felt like I wasted my time. Been reading way more EU now. I only read that stuff because Disney said it would matter- that it would improve my viewing experience, but it doesn't and actually ended up doing the opposite because things I like didn't end up happening. Lesson learned. Disney Star Wars is sort of a joke.

[@derworfnet]

Same, I seamlessly went from collecting EU-Novels to nuCanon-Books in 2015 and pretty much only read those for two years or so. Then TLJ came out and my immediate reaction was to fill the remaining holes in my EU-collection. Am still reading new Books occasionally (stuff from Timothy Zahn, Alphabet Squadron) but compared to the EU-Novels I’m currently re-reading (am at Legacy of the Force right now) it isn’t quite the same as far as my investment goes…

[@achaudhari101]

@JeffSense You do realize the EU didn’t have the best stories either right? Not everything with DSW is ignored from those books.

[@JeffSense]

@@achaudhari101 the EU never promised to be anything but Beta canon. If you're going to promise consistent story telling you have to follow through. Disney could have had a pretty good run of they followed their aftermath trilogy to the letter and integrated the new thrawn stuff into episode 9- but they just 'did their own thing' and so now it all just looks like a toddler was messing with star wars paint. I'll take the EU any day because at least they seemed to like Star Wars.

[@saberiandream316]

@@JeffSense So Filoni and Disney are liars, what's new?

[@achaudhari101]

@@JeffSense That's not what I was always told with the EU. People were treating it like it was the True Canon to Star Wars despite the fact that a lot of stuff within it was too weird and too out there to be considered Star Wars (Luke using Black Holes as a power? Really?).

[@Tomtit_Andy]

I have invested into the StarWars story. Emotionally. And financially. Those all things are not exactly free. So when Disney starting to retcon those stories I love, I am not exactly pleased. Especially when it is done for so much cheap and obvious bating. And it is not like recent story instalments Disney made were solid. It is more and more difficult to close eyes on those inconsistencies and take them as organic production/time/writing consequences. Those retcons are obviously for cashgrab and only. When somebody ruins story I have invested emotionally just for situational cashgrab - I am not exactly pleased, I am not exactly motivated to keep follow and invest into the story.

[@АлексейМомот-щ7о]

You could say TFA was situational cashgrab

[@esalkor03]

I completely agree with the disregarding behavior creatives have to other works to do what they want. Doing so makes the cohesion harder to appreciate when it keeps getting chip at time and time again. Find it even odder when the sequel movie novels have much needed context for those movies while previously they were companion pieces that added more detail. It didn't improve much of those movies since a lot of that we didn't get in the movies, some of it even contradicting or/& adding details you would have never guessed from the movie, but they help. Why would they seemingly diminish the work of other creatives for solely their own stories? Or even their own work like Filoni with Ahsoka and Bo who's characters feel jumbled from who they were & their history feels lacking or extracted(more so Bo for that one) from the story. Its been a mess when it comes to their perspective on supplemental material to the point its hurts. Remember even pointing out how the theme of passing on the Skywalker name is neat in theme, but is ruined when you remember that Leia went through something similar not long before as the daughter of Vader & already accepted Rey as a Palpatine. Yet, the symbolic idea of taking their name is going to eventually put her in the same scenario if not worse... & if they decided to ignore that in future stories or just bypass it, never regarding it... that would be an extreme goof up...

[@Rodytohti]

Oh, as someone who sleeps in Star Wars sheets, has the house full of SW books, movies and memorabilia, and even have a Star Wars tattoo, I can say: We can always get off the hook, Disney.

[@retsukaioh4571]

Somehow Ventress return.

[@skepticalsmurf]

😂

[@cacuevas]

6:00 No, they didn’t look forward for any “cohesion”. They just wanted to make more money

[@zacharyfett2491]

Perhaps we should have been paying more attention to what was to come, after the EU got retconned…….. There has got to be a main canon; if the people creating the new stories can’t handle that, then they have no business playing in this universe. Look at Sam Witwer, he absolutely gets it, is Lucasfilm telling us their other creatives aren’t capable of keeping the story intact? Look, if there’s no canon, then it’s impossible to get emotionally invested in any of the books, shows or movies.

[@saberiandream316]

Basically, Disney Star Wars and the Filoniverse embody the "don't think, just consume" school of thought.

[@bobbymauro3721]

The only Canon Event that SW fans should focus on is the one where the IP finally gets handled by competent people who respect GL and HIS fanbase! MTFBWY!

[@hawkeye0378]

Dave Filoni won’t stop until every Novel is no longer canon

[@Shadowclanwarrior246]

I’ve seen Dark Disciple on bookshelves for a long time, but I’ve never gotten it because even though I adore Ventress, I had a feeling one day it be retconned. Just like everything else in the new canon. And I was RIGHT! I mean they SAY they won’t but…I don’t believe them. Especially with Filoni in charge. I pray I’m wrong…but this is a prime example why I’ve only been looking into Legends books and not the new canon. What’s the point if nothing matters?

[@jkb2016]

As someone who played The Warcraft RTS-Games and the WoW, I'm no stranger to retcons. Retcons totally destroy the immersion and give the impression that the (current) author(s) don't give **** about the universe - and therefore eventually the STORY they they're trying to sell - that they are using. If they don't care, why should I? Also, retcons deconstruct careful worldbuilding, which has a magic of is own, the immersion you talked about in the video. It's telling you that how you imagine a fictional world doesn't matter either.

[@Rhys-Lightning]

I tapped out of Star Wars after Kenobi. Went back to the original continuity after that. The only thing I hear about SW now is news I hear when something dumb happens, which is sadly quite often, and now I hear that Ventress is alive? Eye roll. Wasn't Kanan's comic also overwritten when Bad Batch premiered?

[@CouncilCape897]

It was. Not just in minor anesthetic elements, like the color of Depa Billaba's lightsaber or the color of her clone battalion's armor plating. But also in the circumstances of how Kanan survived Order 66. For starters, the Bad Batch wasn't involved at all because they didn't exist at the time. Also, in the original story, it happened at nighttime on a forested planet, not at daytime on a snowy planet. And 1 of the clones was eventually able to free himself from his inhibitor chip and sacrifice himself for Kanan from the Empire at some later point, while he's killed-off immediately in the show.

[@Dr_C_Wraith]

Hey Thor! I used to only be invested in the main series Star Wars films, but when Lucas Film announced that everything new would be canon. I proceeded to buy all of the new materials, so I could better flush out the universe. Now I buy none of it, I won't again. I believe the reason this is happening is that the film makers see themselves as autors, and assume people are coming out more to see a Rian Johnson movie, and not a Star Wars movie. An example of this is Multiverse of Madness. I am a huge Raimi fan and loved it as a Raimi movie. While my friend's who have never watched an Evil Dead, thought the tone and style was just wierd and hated it. Same goes for his Spider-Man 3. Just my 2 cents. Take care.

[@achaudhari101]

There are some things that are Canon though with the books and comics like anything Vader related is still classified as important.

[@jcrebel18]

In some sense, I do agree with you in that if Star Wars is just going to be a series of retconns then I'm going to get very tired of it. In another, since I hadn't seen Ventress and only heard about her, I am a little glad I get to see some of her, but I can understand very much why other fans hate it.

[@facelesscleric2744]

The only way I can see them bringing back Ventress in a good way is that Quinlan Vos teaming up with the Bad Batch this season and they give him a flashback episode to show the events of Dark Disciple since it was originally a scraped clone wars arc.

[@lukejochem]

And Kylo said, "forget the past. Kill it if you have you". And so began the recon season... It still irks me that we got Kylo/Rey over Jacen/Jaina but I guess the story is there now... Do you ever think we'll see a 300 year old Grogu?

[@TheWanderersWit]

Hey there Thor. Good video as always. Was wondering if you might consider going back and looking at the Star Wars: The Old Republic cinematic game trailers for a video or two. Just rewatched them and for 3-6 minute trailer videos they cram feelings into them that I haven't felt for Star Wars in a long time. They're what could be instead of what we have, and that's both hopeful and sad at the same time.

[@marknovak6498]

Yeah, Lucas trashed Heir to Empire story points in his prequels. But the Disney Sequels trashed the very underlying ideas behind the Star wars myth.

[@lasercraft32]

The problem is simple. If they can retcon ANYTHING that happened before, why should we care about what happens now? They could very easily just retcon it again later. Continuity is important because its _supposed_ to be the same universe. Breaking continuity breaks immersion, and can tarnish a person's investment in a franchise (particularly for long time fans). Breaking continuity is basically them saying they _don't care_ about the franchise they are continuing, and they don't care about what came before (unless it can make them extra cash from nostalgia baiting).

[@tobywareing6435]

Remember thar sam whitwhere apparently was told bt filoni thats its good to not have things be consistent because then it treats star wars like a camp fire tale. In one version ahsokas lightsabers were green in anither they were blue. In one version vader dies saving luke in another he watches luke die. Just lets them do what they want and filoni is to blame.

[@saberiandream316]

Remember that time Filoni bragged about breaking continuity? Not making that up, here's the clip. kzbin.info/www/bejne/f4PXd6WZiK6no7M Spread it around. Maybe we can FINALLY put a dent in Filoni's armor if we try hard enough and get people to open their minds. As long as their minds remain closed, Filoni will always be a false prophet.

[@АлексейМомот-щ7о]

​@@saberiandream316 you know that some articles start hating on Filoni and saying how great Kennedy is. We're getting manipulated either way.

[@jaredlocke4300]

A lot of books since Disney's purchase have been really good. Pages of books and comics are literally my go to place to enjoy Star Wars lately. Unfortunately it's become clear the pages don't matter to Lucasfilm. So they do whatever they want and redo, or alternate stories that were awesome already. It sucks man.

[@saberiandream316]

Stick to the EU, no risk of that.

[@JoelFeila]

ahh canon, the very force that binds stories together, the blood of hard core fans. The very thing that separates the hard core from casual fans.

[@DrD00M3]

Dave Filoni is most guilty of breaking canon even contradicting the films with his TCW show or making Ahsoka practically the most important character in the franchise and destroying the EU not surprised he doesn't care about continuity

[@EternalEmperorofZakuul]

I do recall it was Lucas being heavily involved IN TCW

[@CouncilCape897]

​@@EternalEmperorofZakuulThat has been a topic of debate, since there's plenty of evidence from both sides. But in Ahsoka's case in particular, it's well-known by Filoni's own admission that Lucas wanted Ahsoka to die either by the end of the show or during Order 66, and that it was Filoni who insisted on letting her live.

[@shaundaly1134]

Star Wars needs to be rebooted to its Pre-Disney state.

[@nicholasmaryniak3815]

I don't mind a well executed retcon here or there, but overreliance is a problem in and of itself, and "well executed" is difficult.

[@spinelessmoderate8715]

When I was younger, I feel like written lore was considered the "dominant" lore over movie and show adaptations/versions. At least amongst my local peers since the internet was only really just starting to take off and it wasn't as easy to hear/ read the opinions of people in other areas. Books/novels>comics>movies>TV shows kind of a thing. The "visual media" was kind of like the marketing for the written stuff. Almost like movies and TV shows were the "merchandise" of books n comics. Like how toys are the "merchandise" of movies and shows. I commonly heard "oh that was an interesting take on but they got 'x,y and z' wrong in that movie/show." Now it feels like written and visual media iterations are pitted against one another by trying to retcon or "fix" the other.

[@brittneymoore-miller8354]

I jumped off of Star Wars books as soon as I heard the EU was being scrapped. I sold all my books and took a break. I am one of those that felt like I wasted my time with stories that weren’t relevant. (I know how George Lucas felt, but the official Star Wars website circa 2002-2004 was what introduced me to the EU anyway, so it felt canon to me). Really tried to give Disney a chance and was heartbroken over their treatment of Luke, Han and Leia. Glad I came back after the Mandalorian, but I just can’t get into books or comics anymore because they don’t seem to hold any place in the canon anymore even if Disney says they are. 🤷‍♀️ Little mistakes are one thing, because the prequels and original trilogy have some inconsistencies, but ultimately they don’t negate the general story and characters.

[@robertluna5737]

What's really pissing me off is that Disney wrote off the EU and de-canonized it, and yet are pulling in characters from the EU and bastardizing them. The Thrawn in Ashoka was a fucking disgrace.

[@АлексейМомот-щ7о]

That's Filoni's problem. Disney didn't do anything.

[@Bradical204]

I still don't get why people praise Filoni.

[@saberiandream316]

Or why they keep defaulting to these tired double standards around him. Star Wars Theory does it all the time, but Thor himself is not immune. It's old news, you can find much of his baggage online with just a few quick hours of research. He was never what so many deluded fanboys INSISTED he was out of little more than dumb, blind, misplaced hope.

[@emberfist8347]

@@saberiandream316 There is a double standard namely you bashing him but ignoring when other EU writers do it.

[@Apollo1989V]

The canon was thrown out the window when they brought Palpatine back from the dead.

[@jirayasama7]

I really like how you put my feelings into words. My friends, my wife and I have been discussing her coming back and how we can be ok with it. The answer is we shouldn't be ok. Whatever they do with her in the show, it won't be as high caliber as her Legends material or what Dark Disciple did. Bringing back a character should not be done and if it is it should be grand. It should be a big deal with details and care to all the characters that go along with the resurrection.

[@bryanfrazier4648]

I have heard it explained (can't remember where) that each different iteration of a story (Ahsoka in her book and then in Jedi Tales for example) is being told by a different narrator and that the differences can be explained the same way stories always change over time when handed down over several retellings.

[@jayt9608]

"Tell me lies, sweet little lies." How is it that no one saw this coming? It is not as if the EU fans told you that you were going to have favorite stories retconned after it happened to us. A partner who has someone cheating leave them for a new partner after having been the person the philanderer quit a prior partner for is asked, "What did you expect?" Disney via Kennedy, Feloni, and Favreau told the original EU fans, "We love your stories and will protect them. Trust us." We were then knifed in the back before the ink was dry. Your contract for "continuity" was written in the hearts' blood of the original EU fans, and you expected that such an accord would stand? In the Sequel Trilogy, before Disney had the franchise for a decade, there had been revisions and the revising of revisions. This is not counting the continuity difficulties created by Rogue One and Solo, which many books attempted to repair. Later seasons of Rebels further distorted the timeline and introduced time travel and other related issues. Then you were warned of this coming calamity again when Pablo Hidalgo and other keepers of the canon declared that canonicity depended soley on the readers, and that any story was allowed, even if it contradicted established canon, because "all stories will be canon to somebody." Pardon me as I wibble-wobble my way from the herky-jerky calamity of a franchise.

[@АлексейМомот-щ7о]

Thor is not as hardcore into this shit as you. When did you warn him and when did Pablo say stupid shit like that?

[@NoahWhan1]

Might as well just label all books and comics as legends

[@mihailos8701]

Thanks for a good video that give some explanations, as to why retcons like this aren't very good

[@lorewalkermaohao4602]

Disney: "EU is getting slashed so that we can create our own canon with consistency" Also Disney: "Eh, too much effort..."

[@miragewizard]

To go back and make sure that Ventress's story and character path aligns with the book is a lot of extra work, and more involvement with the story than they anticipated. Will this serve as a 'wake up call' for the writers for being so shortsighted? I know that a lot of fans may be in favor of this particular ret-con, but what if you're not in favor of it, or any retcon for that matter? Retconning character paths do not do any justice to the already fragmented fanbase when it comes to stories that undermine what has already been established. Its just more of the same type of writing behavior that divides the fanbase.

[@fercuscuelalopez9454]

People won’t die, lightsabers won’t kill, light speed jumps would destroy entire fleets, the chosen one wasn’t… really… the chosen one… well known characters would behave like they wouldn’t… then people ask what’s wrong with Star Wars nowadays… or why fans are angry… unbelievable.

[@АлексейМомот-щ7о]

They don't care, they just want to mock you for being angry. It's like high school.

[@fercuscuelalopez9454]

@@АлексейМомот-щ7о Nah dude… they want to make money… they think they’ll achieve that by following this so called cultural shift, they think that’s what “modern audiences” want, they don’t realize that audience is not as big as they think it is.

[@aitchisondaniel]

Because it is all one story. It has 'Star Wars' in the title to get our attention and money, so must be consistent with Star Wars. Gaping plot holes are bad in a story in a book or film, and are bad in a story spread over several books or films. It's still a story, which is how we think a la Pratchett. As Mauler put it, the clock is still running since Phantom Menace.

[@SuperAaron55555]

Disney should have left the timeline a long time ago. If they would have just jumped forward in time and made their own story without screwing up what was made in the past. Even if it was bad the old fans wouldn’t be as upset because what they used to love wouldn’t have been touched.

[@FTChomp9980]

Disney doesn't really care about the previous lore and Canon that was established by George Lucas and his team Star Wars had all that now it doesn't.

[@achaudhari101]

I’ll just chime in here though my guy. Even Lucas wasn’t the most consistent when it came to following his own rules of Canon.

[@FTChomp9980]

Yeah u do make a good point here because even Lucas didn't follow it either. 2 Wrongs don't make a right after all.

[@Leonfei]

The shared universe thing was one of the things I loved most about the original EU. Having read the Jedi Apprentice series, I could look at Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon in Episode I and imagine those characters having the history and experiences I'd read about. The cancellation of the EU and decanonisation of that content took something away, even from the main numbered films for me, there was no longer that rich tapestry of a background to the films and the story for me.

[@istari0]

How hard is it to understand that fans are upset that Disney/Lucasfilm said all the content would be canon going forward and since then has violated that standard repeatedly? Internal self-consistency in a fictional universe is critical to great storytelling.

[@WildFireGaming7]

Me personally wouldn’t want any of the books or comics to be retconned. But the fact is that they are very low on the totem pole of relevancy to the brand since Disney took over. They’ve been doing this since buying Star Wars. The Seige of Mandalore is a big one. Plus in my head I can see it make some sense that Disney would want to cut out the reading material so that way casual fans don’t need to read. If true that’s a stupid ideology. I would prefer all the books and comics be canon. But we’ve had so many retcons that I just don’t care anymore.

[@akshatdogra]

_"All storytellers at Lucasfilm are equal but some are more equal than others."_

[@overknightacention39]

One thing thing would like to point out is that the Knightsisters used something called "the water of life" Ventress.

[@zufalllx]

Great. More magic bullshit. 🙄

[@ivanstrydom8417]

I am glad people can find interest and happiness in the comics/books/extra stuff. To me there are only 6 SW films + Rogue One ,Andor, & Mando S1+S2.

[@fredlusyk6741]

...Casual STAR WARS Fans NOT Concerning themselves with CANON is Understandable... ...Professional STAR WARS Writers NOT Concerning themselves with CANON is Unimaginative... ...Incompetent STAR WARS Producers NOT Concerning themselves with CANON is Unacceptable...

[@cjlafleur7585]

This just continues to prove my distrust of Filoni right. He thinks he's a brilliant writer, but he's a hack who is either ripping off other stuff, or sniffing his own farts with the characters he made that he's become obsessed with. It's mostly the latter, which leads him to the want to cram those characters down our throats and replace the original characters we love with Filoni characters that range from terrible to pretty decent. There's no reverence for the original world and work of Star Wars, there's only narcissism as he tries to create Filoni Wars.

[@insomniezombie4210]

Hey Thor the man who talks more. I always did like the mindset of every story is a different window into the same universe, but these last two videos have me trying to look at it from both sides and largely it brings me to be mindful of how George Lucas much of the times saw his work as rough drafts that continuously could be tweaked towards what he felt was a more complete vision. Notably one instance of this line of thinking directly resulted in ashoka and that character became such a driving force that it nearly recontexulized all of the prequels (or even all of stars). What if it’s possible this situation goes on to do the same for the sequels? I could buy into the optimism that ventress comes back to have an impact on this period (like maul does for the clone wars). Possibly she is the best choice in character to fill in how cloning begins to be used on force sensitive or deceased characters; which could start to adjust the whole how sideous appeare out of no where issue. What would be a positive situation in using ventress or the “refinement process” look like to you?

[@gameragodzilla]

Dave Filoni’s always been fast and loose with things like continuity. Funny thing is a lot of the mess that ended up happening with Legends continuity were because of how TCW retconned or changed so many things. And people back then were largely accepting of it entirely because TCW was more popular and well known than things like the Star Wars Republic comics. And that’s one of the reasons why Legends fans don’t particularly like TCW despite the show’s quality being very good. Filoni justified it at the time by saying “Well, the EU was never canon to Lucas anyways” which we can debate whether it’s true or not. However, that doesn’t change the fact that Disney policy is now “everything is canon”, yet Filoni kept doing this stuff. And with the notable decline in quality for Filoni’s work from the heights of TCW, it’s becoming harder and harder to accept.

[@achaudhari101]

I mean Lucas never said the EU was his canon either so all Filoni is doing is repeating what George said (Like with Leia being the new Chosen One in Lucas’s ST outlines).

[@JoRoq1]

Lucas always considered the books and comics as secondary canon sources. While he required the EU publications to be consistent with each other, he held himself exempt from that and whatever he decided to put on the screen always superseded the published works.

[@gameragodzilla]

@@achaudhari101 Sure, but that is no longer policy under Disney, so Filoni should change himself for the new management. That and just because Lucas himself doesn’t consider the EU canon doesn’t mean Filoni shouldn’t have done so anyways since he’s the showrunner. All the other storytellers from the various books, comics, and video games all worked together to keep things consistent, so why couldn’t Filoni? The only explanation is he doesn’t really care, and he brought that tendency over to DisCanon.

[@saberiandream316]

And let's not forget that Filoni PROMISED the same thing as Disney-owned Lucasfilm on the ashes of the old EU - which is that he wouldn't do this shit and overwrite the books anymore, yet here we are.