Disproving Pre-tribulation Rapture: With Dr. Craig Keener

[@TruthWins515]

Hope for pre-trib, prepare for post-trib. No matter which way it goes, cling to Jesus and stand strong in the faith. 😊

[@theodoreritola7641]

Amen brother Steve ,,

[@1lebero]

Amen

[@BeMoreAwareGodWatches]

Right 😊

[@MathiasVIKING0403]

Those that say this , don't want to accept the fact that they were wrong. Period. . It's not about salvation. So why mention about it. It's about the lies taught from the pulpit, that decieved millions

[@1lebero]

@@MathiasVIKING0403 Oh boy...let it go man. It's ok dude. Guess what? some people see things differently than you -and that's alright. Pray for everybody.

[@rayertman]

What binds the body of Christ isn't when He is coming again... it's THAT He is coming again. It is the blessed hope for all of us. If it happens to be pre trib, I'm coming. If it isn't pre trib... I'm prepared to endure.

[@caroleevandyk5544]

I’m with you Ray. I find good and elegant arguments in the pretrib view and find comfort in hoping it may be true, however if it is not, l’m also prepared to endure and will not fall apart and fall away as many post tribbers like to emphasize will happen to disappointed pretribbers. The post trib view also has some good arguments but also puzzles me too with some issues. However, even if we are destined to go through persecution and even martyrdom it will be epic to see scripture unfolding before our eyes as we enter the period of the wrath of Satan. To actually see these things happen, we know our redemption will be so close. In that respect, we are most fortunate to be living in these times instead of slogging through some horrible historical period of time previous to now where people suffered terribly and did not have the expectation of the imminent return of our Saviour, like the Middle Ages or the world wars. I guess the post trib view folks who comment aggressively against the pretrib view are just concerned about a pretribber’s well being and don’t want to see anyone miss out by falling away from trusting Christ due to being so shocked and depressed that they will be experiencing some nasty times. However when l consider how it would feel to realize the pre trib view is wrong, the last thing l would want to do is to give up on God. That would be the dumbest thing to do, as we will need Him even more to give us the strength and patience and faith needed to endure. Where would a disappointed pretribber go if not to God? If they do fall away one must wonder how convinced they were in the first place. I would think most pretribbers are pretty familiar with scripture and God’s promises, at least enough to know that just because they were wrong is no reason to walk away from God. I appreciate Job 13:15, “Though He slay me, yet will l trust in Him.” Ain’t nowhere else to go.

[@revelationrevolution]

May I recommend a book titled Revelation Revolution: The Antichrist, Angels and the Abyss. This author challenges both John Walvoord, and Dwight Pentecost, and includes their correspondence from both of these scholars. The basic premise is the Holy Spirit in the church is not the restrainer of 2 Thes. 2, and how that impacts pretirbulationism downwind in the book of Revelation. Numerous scholars are quoted, MacArthur, Geisler, Walvoord, Pentecost, F.F. Bruce, Loen Morris, DA Carson and more. It's 130 pages but well worth the read.

[@SpotterVideo]

Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it. The Capitol "C" Church, as we use the word today, is not found in the entire Book of Revelation. Individual church bodies in ancient Asia Minor are found. In Revelation 12:11 we find those under the blood of the Lamb. A person cannot be under the blood of the Lamb and not be a part of the New Covenant Church of Jesus Christ. Verse 12 of this passage proves at least part of the tribulation period is the wrath of Satan upon the people of God. Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. =================================== "It may come as a surprise to most pre-Trib prophecy students that the post-Trib position (in its primitive form) is the oldest point of view." The quotation above is from the book "Will You Escape The Tribulation? RAPTURE [Under Attack]", by Tim LaHaye, copyright 1998, Page 197. =================================== The gathering of the Church is described at the end of 1 Thess. Chapter 4, and the timing of the event is found in chapter 5. The word “But” in the first verse of chapter 5 connects the two chapters, and the words “we” and “sleep” in verse 10 of chapter 5 prove the two chapters are connected.

[@cecilspurlockjr.9421]

That's the attitude a child of GOD is supposed to have brother . Amen to that my friend . So many people will actually tell you that your not even saved if you don't agree with their view and makes one wonder if they actually understand biblical salvation through CHRIST . May GOD bless you n yours , I'll see you there .

[@cecilspurlockjr.9421]

@@revelationrevolution I don't have the book , who do they say is the restrained?

[@rayertman]

Personally i think teaching merely pre trib is dangerous. What if someone is counting on pre trib, but then is here to witness the trib? Will they then think God lied? Will they not be prepared for what's to come?

[@slojogojo2766]

ray ertman Amen Corra Ten Boom said the same and then fall away from the faith just as the scriptures says!

[@redskypreparedness2319]

They will be of the servant class that says 'my Lord delayeth His coming'. Those fall into the world and begin drinking with the drunkards and turning against their fellow servants. Then, when the Lord returns, they are cut down and sent to where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth.

[@SpotterVideo]

Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it. The New Covenant: Bob George kzbin.info/www/bejne/iJuaf4Scm8yShKc .

[@andrejohnson4663]

Yea the great falling away is the hope and belief in pre trib rapture. My point is the rapture is going to happen but people depends on the rapture more than they depends on the Father (God), and Jesus Christ (the Messiah). Jesus says in Matthew 24 that many people will be offended in the 10th verse. But why? Look at verse 9. Jesus explains what will happen and for that reason many will fall away. But Jesus said the ones who endures till the end shall be saved. He also says in Matthew 16:25 For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me will find it. So that's where the great falling away comes from in my opinion according to scripture

[@rayertman]

@@slojogojo2766 thank you . Did not know that.....and many other things lol

[@georgepoindexter7416]

The point is that Christ is coming back, we just have to be ready!!

[@richardpoppke4325]

Romans chapter 11 talks about Israel being hardened in part until the fullness of the Gentiles gas come in. Revelation 9:20 says that there is no more repentance. Then Revelation 11 has the last trumpet. Seems to me the scriptures are spells out when the resurrection of the dead occurs.

[@gossman75]

@@richardpoppke4325 I don't think the last of the 7 trumpets is the Rapture. But rather It's for signaling the time of judgement. But did you know that on the feast of Rosh Hashanah which is a feast of Trumpets, That day the Israelis blow 100 blast from the shofar. The last trumpet blast is called Tekiah Gedolah. That's mankind's signals for the Rapture, but realistically God could call us home in the rapture any time during Rosh Hashanah on Jesus last trumpet blast.

[@richardpoppke4325]

I'm a simple man who believes the Scripture means what it says. The real mystery in all creation is that God will raise the living and the dead. The bible places this at the last trumpet so I simply believe that at face value. Why make things complicated?

[@georgepoindexter7416]

How do you see Matthew 24:29 thru 31 ( this plainly states that: AFTER THE TRIBULATION HE WILL GATHER HIS ELECT…………

[@gossman75]

@@georgepoindexter7416 These are people that got saved after the Rapture occurred. The Dead and the Living!

[@samperry9507]

I love being saved in the blood of Jesus Christ and promises I don’t face his wrath amen

[@gossman75]

Revelation 5:1-4 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals. And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof? And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon. And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. This is the Lamb (Jesus) who opens the 7 seals. So therefore it's Jesus that starts the tribulation atleast after the antichrist signs the false peace pact, So would this be God's wrath? He was the only one to open the 7 seals of the tribulation? But yes, I'm glad to not face his wrath which begins at the 7 seals. Atleast that's what I believe.

[@justinsmitley7619]

God's Wrath and the world's trials and tribulations are different..

[@billerickson5604]

@@justinsmitley7619 amen Though a thousand may fall beside you, and a multitude on your right side, it will not reach you. Certainly you will see it with your very own eyes - you will see the wicked paid back. For you have taken refuge in the Lord , my shelter, the sovereign One. No harm will overtake you; no illness will come near your home. Psalms 91

[@contendingforthefaith9897]

@@gossman75 Jesus does not start the tribulation. He allows the tribulation period to start, that will in turn start the beginning of the day of the Lord, Revelation 6:23-17. Believe it or not, this worldwide coronavirus pandemic started the tribulation period, Revelation 6:1-8. At this time coronavirus is acting as the rider on the white horse, that has went forth conquering and to conquer. Plus this time is being seen as the beginning of sorrows, Matthew chapter 24. The coronavirus is a beast, as it sicken and kill people around the world, thus bringing sorrow with it. This is the beginning of the war between God and Satan the Antichrist and the Lord Jesus Christ. The Antichrist NWO worldwide beast system government made the first strike against God's creation, by unleashing this beast of a virus on the people. My belief is, when the chip implant/mark of the beast is well on the way, THEN THE HELLFIRE JUDGEMENTS OF GOD WILL START TO FALL. THIS WORLDWIDE CORONAVIRUS PANDEMIC IS THE WHITE HORSE THATS LEADING TO THAT EVENT. BTW, The day of the Lord also will be a time when God takes back control of His creation. The kingdoms of this world, will become the kingdoms of our Lord and His Christ, Revelation 11:15.

[@contendingforthefaith9897]

That's true, but the thing is, as we go into this tribulation period, we enter the end time paradigm. Christian will be expected to suffer shame, reproach, death even for the Lord Jesus Christ's sake. And the tribulation period came in with this worldwide coronavirus pandemic, yes we are definitely here.

[@timhays4290]

I came to Christ in Oct of 1968. Summer of 1970, I read Hal Lindsey's book Late Great Planet Earth, with an open Bible along side. It was okay, I understood, but did not believe. Later I heard a debate about Pre, Mid, & Post rapture. Over the past 50yrs I have read too many books on the subject. Maybe 20yrs ago I got a check in my spirit. "Judge a tree by its fruit". Pre & Mid Trib fruit is "who cares we are not going to be here". Which is counter to, "The prudent sees danger and hides himself, but the simple go on and suffer for it." Maybe 5yrs ago I came across Irvin Baxter's End Times Ministry, that teaches Post Trib. RIP Irvin Baxter, but his ministry carries on. I am at peace with my post trib belief.

[@aioniansage6081]

I'm with you. Sounds like we both traveled the same timeline.

[@jsmith359]

The proverb you quote is most applicably profound...

[@vladimirpetrovsky49]

Greetings from The Ukraine. I do believe in post tribulation too!

[@zanemcc]

Jesus said “No man knows the day or the hour” of His coming, correct? Follow Daniels prophecy, Ch. 12:11 from the “abomination of desolation” “1,290 days” what follows the end of those days, the return of Christ to save Israel at Armageddon (Revelation 19:19). If you follow the time-line, and you know the number of days until the end and Christ’s return, wouldn’t you know the day or the hour? Yet Jesus says you won’t- He doesn’t know the day or the hour. Jesus never contradicts Himself or His Word. Like a Jewish wedding you’ll be gathered prior to the Tribulation. That is a “blessed hope.”

[@paulbriggs3072]

@@zanemcc Except for that pesky statement by Jesus in Matthew 24:29-31 saying: “Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days “ ‘the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’ b “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth c will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will GATHER HIS ELECT from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. So when in verse 36 it says "About THAT day and hour nobody knows...." Its referring back to THAT day He just got done telling them about, which plainly states it comes "immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days..."

[@andrewkurtz737]

After many years I came to the same conclusion that the rapture and second coming were the same thing! Not to sound arrogant but it's nice to have a biblical scholar share the same understanding. No matter your views on this, God bless you! We are all united in Christ even when we differ in certain areas of interpretation.

[@iminlove1148]

Amen

[@HarpazoReady2022]

Jesus' first coming *on earth* was his birth. Jesus' second coming *on earth* is at the end of the 7-year Tribulation, when he stands on the Mt. of Olives. The Harpazo (rapture) happens in between these events in the air, *in the clouds,* not on earth (1 Thessalonians 4:17 & 1 Corinthians 15:51-53.) ✝

[@SpotterVideo]

Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it. The Capitol "C" Church, as we use the word today, is not found in the entire Book of Revelation. Individual church bodies in ancient Asia Minor are found. In Revelation 12:11 we find those under the blood of the Lamb. A person cannot be under the blood of the Lamb and not be a part of the New Covenant Church of Jesus Christ. Verse 12 of this passage proves at least part of the tribulation period is the wrath of Satan upon the people of God. Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. "It may come as a surprise to most pre-Trib prophecy students that the post-Trib position (in its primitive form) is the oldest point of view." The quotation above is from the book "Will You Escape The Tribulation? RAPTURE [Under Attack]", by Tim LaHaye, copyright 1998, Page 197. The gathering of the Church is described at the end of 1 Thess. Chapter 4, and the timing of the event is found in chapter 5. The word “But” in the first verse of chapter 5 connects the two chapters, and the words “we” and “sleep” in verse 10 of chapter 5 prove the two chapters are connected.

[@MarieElenaCambria1]

He comes to court His bride in the wilderness first. Its a promise & He Keeps His promises to His "true sons of God" along with many other prophecies that must transpire just prior to Christ's Return including the Light of Men Rising. That is Our Decision for Free will is the highest principle w/i the type/archetype of the Kingdom of God. God's laws won't even work properly *Unless* we Freely Choose to abide in them. However too: Just like young King Josiah did, We have free will to push the time line of the Original Logos forward or stall it through non repentance. _"*IF* My people, _*_THEN_*_ I will..._ - is a standing by-law or statute that stands through time. God responds to the prayers and decisions of His people AND Every great move of God has been off of the Repentance of a great heart; a pure heart. ...in order for someone to repent they must sin first & understand that they have thus "Law" - God's Laws. Our sins - even the Adamic w/i our very DNA is beneath His glory; His intentions for us. Our sins run deep. It is only through repentance that true transformation takes place. It is this place of utter transparency, soul wrenching desperation & the understanding of our need for redemption that the King of Eternity meets us.

[@ricomeh]

Yep, it's crystal clear, pretribulation rapture theory is false doctrine. I was pretrib when I first got saved like most people, but after reading on my own I was like this is false doctrine, all scripture says the rapture is after the tribulation

[@phileo5312]

“You cant have another trumpet after the last one” I’ve always stood by that statement!

[@jessicasuzanne___]

EXACTLY There s no pre-trib rapture whatsoever We all will go through it and will most likely be persecuted

[@neilwani1178]

What does studying the end times without a proper understanding of Daniel's 70th week do? How does that effect a person's interpretation? What has happened with Daniel chapter 9? Why is it so important? Well so many scholars have said it was a prophecy for 490 biblical years. And 483 years were fulfilled when Messiah was cutoff in 33 AD. Then later the temple and the city was destroyed in 70 AD. And 7 biblical years are pending for the future of this world and then Daniel 9 24 will be fulfilled. Bible prophecy did not mention things that happened in the church age. The bible clearly hints Daniel 9 27 is future. Rev 11 2 says there will be a future 3rd temple in Jerusalem. Daniel 12 11 says the abomination of desolation will stop the daily sacrifice. 2 Thess 2 says the man of sin will enter the temple of God and demand to be worshiped as God. Rev 13 5-7 says a man will speak blasphemies and from that day have authority to continue 42 months over saints from all nations. Daniel 7 25 says the saints will be given into the hands of the antichrist for 3.5 years. Matthew 24 15 says the abomination of desolation will trigger the great tribulation that starts the worst time the world will ever see. So if you read Matthew 24 without a clear understanding of Daniel's 70th week, you really say the 2nd coming is the rapture. But with a proper understanding of Daniel's 70th week, knowing the world is headed for a covenant for 2520 days or 7 biblical years, you run into problems. The abomination of desolation has to happen on day 1261 of the 7 year covenant. And from day 1261, the saints are given into the hands of the antichrist for 3.5 years or 1260 days. Day 2520 will be the day of the 2nd coming immediately after the tribulation. The problem with those passages is that scripture cannot be broken. They are saints starting midtrib that start to be martyred on day 1261. And they will be given into the hands of the antichrist for 1260 days. Scripture will not be broken. Daniel 7 25 and Rev 13 5-7 will not be broken. There are no saints better than other saints. And there is no rapture on a day that will be known years before the event immediately after the tribulation. The problems come from the Fig Tree passages and the parable of the 10 virgins where no man knows the day or the hour. But the date of the 2nd coming will be known 7 biblical years before the event. If you read 2 Thess 2 and realize the man of sin is revealed in the temple midtrib, then you realize that the day of the Lord as birth pangs starts after that. And great confusion occurs with our gathering. But then with a proper understanding of Daniel's 70th week again there are problems. The saints are given into the hands of the antichrist for 3.5 years or 1260 days. And Daniel 9 24 occurs immediately after the tribulation on the last day. How can our gathering be any day in the 2nd half? So now you know what is restraining all this that is going to come unto the world. Our gathering is restraining all this. Then worldwide apostasy. Then the man of sin will be revealed midtrib.Then some unknown time in the 2nd half the day of the Lord judgments will start on the wicked as birth pangs and the wicked will not escape. These birth pangs will get worse and worse till the last day. But this will not break the Word of God with Daniel 7 25 and Rev 13 5-7. The saints will be given into the hands of the antichrist for 3.5 years. And the last day of the birth pangs immediately after the tribulation will be known 7 biblical years before the event. What happens when a person starts reading the book of Revelation. They see passages and Jesus coming in the clouds and on a horse. But again with a proper study of Daniel's 70th week there are problems. In the 2nd half Rev 13 5-7 occurs and the antichrist will have authority over saints from all nations for 42 months or 1260 days. And there is a trumpet in Matthew 24 27-31 and the angels gather His elect immediately after the tribulation. But this cannot break the Word of God. A person needs to figure out what day of Daniel's 70th week that trumpet will sound. This creates a huge problem. The book of Revelation only gives the antichrist authority to continue 42 months from the day he speaks great blasphemies. And Rev 1 7 says He comes on the clouds and all eyes will see Him. Meaning in Russia and China and Africa and North America and Japan and South America. Now it becomes supernatural when all the world can see the Lord and angels and heaven open. Zech 14 6-9 and Luke 17 23-37 along with Daniel 9 24 says it all ends on that day. All the wicked are destroyed on that day and that makes the bowl judgments supernatural after the entire world sees the Lord.

[@Ambassador-For-Christ]

@@neilwani1178 You do not seem to be aware that the Lords Day and Daniel's 70th week are both the same event !!

[@neilwani1178]

@FrankGordon-Romans-16-verse-25 you will see the wicked start to take over the world after the pretrib rapture. And there will be no birth pangs on the wicked after the restraints on evil are taken away. You will regret old fashioned pretrib that made no sense. The restrainer is taken away before the seals are opened After the pretrib rapture 10 kingdoms take over the world. Some time in the 1st half a wicked man appears and subdues 3 of the first 10. He confirms a covenant already in place. A one world government and one world religion will appear. Midtrib the man of sin will be revealed. This will be day 1261 at the 5th seal. This starts Jacob's trouble. But Jacob escapes. Some unknown time in the 2nd half the day of the Lord judgments will start for the sake of 144,000 from Israel. The trumpet judgments will start for the sake of 144,000 from Israel. The sun will be darkened and the moon will turn to blood The last day of the birth pangs is the day of the 7th trumpet immediately after the tribulation. On this day, all the wicked will be destroyed. On the day the entire world will see God

[@Ambassador-For-Christ]

@@neilwani1178 Like I said, you are NOT aware that the Lord's Day and the 70th week of Daniel are the same event !!

[@johntrueword]

I've been teaching this since1998, Needless to say I'm not the popular one @ bible study lol... Keep up the good work guys, God bless!!!

[@joyedwards3423]

😂 a couple years ago my brother was the one who showed me in scripture the truth. We grew up believing in a pre-tribulation rapture. He warned me! He said do not try to take peoples pre-tribulation rapture away from them because they will literally go nutso on you. He wasn't joking. 😳

[@Ambassador-For-Christ]

That's not fair that you aren't the most popular at bible study, if you're telling the truth! "And will share the True word of God Without Worrying about your feelings getting hurt, Id much rather you hate me now, Than One day tell me why didn't you tell me the T R U T H! God bless " I'm a real good listener, so please tell me the TRUTH! Do you know what Ephesians 4:30 tells me? It tells me that I do not need any pre-tribulation rapture !!! It tells me that I can do anything and everything (including taking the mark of the beast} that my little heart desires, and I will still walk the streets of Glory when all is said and done! Aren't I LUCKY for knowing that??? Ephesians 1:13-14 makes it even more clear! Matthew 10:5-6, Romans 15:8, and Romans 15:4 eliminates me from being corrected with the use of Matthew thru John, Hebrews thru Revelation, and the Old Testament! I bet that's what you teach in Bible study, just like me!

[@joyedwards3423]

@@Ambassador-For-Christ i'm pretty sure you're very popular with the world. You seem to go right along with what they like. You know you cannot take that mark and make it to heaven. You can try to twist Scripture, like many do these days and make it sound like you can but you absolutely know that's not true. You also know that you cannot continue in your sin, and make it to heaven. Jesus even said on that day that many will say, Lord, did, and I cast out devils in your name. Jesus said he is going to say, depart from me I never knew you worker of iniquity. Hell is real and eternal. Put nothing at risk. Calling yourself lucky for twisting the Bible is really scary.

[@Ambassador-For-Christ]

@@joyedwards3423 I showed the scriptures that proved my point !! So I do not understand your problem with what I said! But then again, I do not see any scripture verses by you that prove me wrong, just your own words !! What part of the word "sealed" do you not understand???

[@Ambassador-For-Christ]

I am so happy that you agree with me !! As I do see now, that you and I are just not very popular with what we teach !!

[@uncommonscriptures9418]

We need to continue to search and grow together in grace and understanding, even if post and pre trip don’t agree we need to learn with love and truth

[@amybritt1363]

Sorry I disagree. There is only one truth. The Rapture theory is a false Doctrine designed to lead God's children away to the Antichrist when he comes first. It says and second Thessalonians the Antichrist comes first. So he will be coming to fly you away! In because you love not the truth you will worship him which is the mark of the beast. So it is imperative that the truth be taught.

[@truthseeker7229]

@@amybritt1363 "the rapture theory is a false doctrine" How so? Jesus taught on the rapture? It is mention several times throughout the new testament.... John 14: 1-3 1 Corinthians 15:1-53 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 Romans 8:19 1 Corinthians 1:7-8 Philippians 3:20-21 Colossians 3:4 1 Thessalonians 2:19 and 5:9-10, 23 2 Thessalonians 2:1,3 1 Timothy 6:14 Hebrews 9:28 James 5:7-9 1 Peter 1:7,13 1 John 2:28-3:2 Jude 21 Revelation 2:25 Revelation 3:10 I agree the truth being taught is imperative. I don't pretend to know when the rapture will occur but it is, by no means, a "false doctrine"

[@amybritt1363]

@@truthseeker7229 I am sorry but you are not rightly dividing the word.

[@amybritt1363]

@@truthseeker7229 The antichrist comes first to deceive the world. Looking so holy ! Crying peace ! Coming to fly you away if you worship him ! Jesus Yeshua comes at the 7th trump. WHICH IS THE LAST ONE !

[@truthseeker7229]

@@amybritt1363 I agree with all of that. I disagree that the rapture is a "false doctrine". Jesus will rapture His church. It is stated several times in the new testament. The Greek word is Harpazo. You must know the Greek translations to understand, as well as the customs of the Jewish people and times. The text is not hard to understand. However, the time is unknown. God bless you.

[@coreymurphy3784]

This woman is very knowledgeable, I learned a lot. I grew up watching Pastor Murray from the shepherds Chapel, so I knew from the get-go that the rapture was false doctrine. It is slowly but surely fading away on its own. Good riddance, not going to give false hope to people.

[@marytitus00]

If Arnold Murray wasn't pre-trib I'm more inclined to believe that it isn't wrong.

[@masonlifewithpepper9992]

Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.

[@jsmith359]

What does this test concern? A temporal or eternal outcome? Eternal salvation or damnation is the outcome. Many saved people will die during the great Trib. Seal 5 shows us this. Physical death as a witness for Christ by the wrath/persecution of Satan does not change a saints eternal salvation... This is deliverance by death...

[@beyenotdeceived5169]

How long is an *"HOUR"* of testing ? 7 YEARS ? So ABSURD !!!

[@christopherperkins2395]

Hour = 7 years 10 nations join up with the beast for 7 years as well so he can rule the world Raptures occurances in our bible 1- enoch 2- moses body 3- Elijah 4- jesus 5- saints 6- paul 7- pre trib believers. This one is under the most fierce attack from those who want to stay here to see if their faith is real for 3.5 more years, claiming that the church believers need tested, Today believers are being burnt to death, shot imprisoned, persecuted starved etc, others have their churches closed, hated by the world and the biggest test of all is prosperity and an aboundance of goods and entertainment, the true test for these Christian's is to let go of their wealth and give to the poor starving hurting missions of 3rd world Christians, or stand up for jesus in an atheist society. Right now we struggle to be a light in a world of darkness, to give us more darkness is not God's motive but to redeem us to himself, as a dear Father. If you want tested, sell all you have and go preach the gospel, I'll fund your rent and food till we are called up, now what more do you need? 8- 144,000 raptured 9- moses and Elijah raptured 10- gatherering to Jerusalem Hope this encourages you in this sinful world, Confort one another with these words A time of Jacobs trouble =1 week= 7 year's. A covenant is made with the Jews for 7 year's. At mid trib the devil is only persecuting the Jews God prepares a place of refuge for the Jews in the mountain's Daniel , Jeremiah and Matthew 24 and Revelation 6- 20 give us a clear description of what Daniel's 70th week is about. In the first 3.5 year's the jews accept the man of sin as their messiah Jesus taught this, saying, " John 5: 43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive" Matthew 24:28 is the great feast or battle of ARMAGEDDON 3 verses later is the gathering by the Angel's to Jerusalem. Now the jews hidding will want to know if its the true messiah since they have been deceived already jesus says when he comes it will be like LIGHTNING from east to west, everyone will know, and since the sky is dark from the moon not giving her light neither much light from the sun , every single person will see Jesus come easily. Of course this starts the 1000 year millennium, Confusion comes by reader's at vs 41 etc Jesus gives a brief timline of events but he fills in with some details afterwards, eg. If i told you were i lived new Zealand, America korea, america, new New Zealand, America, new Zealand, Australia, Philippines, Australia, new Zealand, then went back and explained that i flew to New Zealand 13 times from Australia, you might think i was an Australian.... no it just means i went on holidays to Australia then flew home to new Zealand... so yes adding details In Mathew 24 verse 41 Jesus explains some details, Two women are not buying flour from a shop, but in secrete or in hiding will be grinding wheat to suvive. They dont have a covid passport mark of the beast so they will have to make their own food, one believes in jesus the other doesn't but knows the mark of the beast is deadly and refuses to worship an image. The beginning of revelation seals. In the early days of the 70th week before the Jews flee to the mountain's at seal number 5 In revelation 6 we have all believers getting beheaded or killed, these believers ask God how long till they are avenged, Jesus answers saying just wait till your brethren are killed also there is no rapture for the believers or new converts but rather an exucution for all believers. Revelation 6 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. So yes all believers will be killed. Then who is this matthew 24 rapture for????? Angel's gather who to Jerusalem. Well only Jews are commanded to flee into hiding for 3.5 year's and they will gather food from fields and have to grind their own grain to survive and yes some will be scattered around the world in hiding, as they know worship of an image is idolatry . I'm guessing a few lost people will be hiding as well and join up with these Jews some believe some don't, So we have 99% of believers killed, a few remaining new believers in hiding will be gathered by Angel's to Jerusalem after the battle of ARMAGEDDON. Eagle's feast before the angels gather the elect from the ends if the world. Revelation 6 Seal 5 all believers are killed or about to be No loving God would murder all his children and bride for 3.5 or 7 year's then take the last starving survivors up to Jerusalem to celebtate victory over the world. Honestly your God my be Allah jesus would do that Also picture illustrations are all though the bible. Daniel didnt go though the fiery furnace, Noah didnt go though the flood but was resuced, lot way resuced, moses at the red sea was rescued God always protects his children when he punishes the world. The world is being punished for the evil they have done, God gives them blood to drink etc

[@christopherperkins2395]

@@beyenotdeceived5169 yep 7 years

[@jsmith359]

@@christopherperkins2395 To just few of your points, Jacob’s trouble is not specified as a seven year time frame in Daniel 12? In Daniel 9:27, we understand this as the antichrist confirming a covenant with many for 7 years but it never goes a full 7 years. At the halfway point it is broken. Once a Covenant is broken it no longer exists. At the breaking of this covenant, the 3.5 year Great Tribulation is triggered which is not God’s Wrath (Ogre in Greek) but Satan’s Wrath (Thumos in Greek). Subsequently, the great Tribulation (Thlipsis in Greek) is persecution of the saints by the antichrist against believers at that time (born again in Christ). Singling out Jews only as the persecuted contradicts many Scriptures. Ie: there is neither jew nor Greek. Ephesians hammers this point home in Chapter 2 :12-22 and Chapter 3 with Paul emphasizing the fellowship of the mystery... All saints are only those born again in Christ whether Jew or Gentile. The speculation that the great trib only applies to Jews is unsubstantiated biblically; a contrivance at the least and/or an itching ears deliberate deception at the worst... One of the most difficult hurdles in my own study of Rev 7 was finally understanding that the great crowd (who have come out of the great Tribulation by death) and are now in heaven-have not received their Resurrection bodies yet... Once you affirm this, by reason of clear discernment, one sees how the PreTrib rapture theory utterly falls apart. As the First Resurrection precedes the Harpazo (rapture)... The great key is to follow the mystery that is fulfilled in the days of the sounding of the 7th Trumpet... (the last Trumpet) “Behold, I tell you a mystery, Paul wrote to the Corinthians; we shall all not sleep but we shall all be changed. This is when the gathering together takes place-the Episunagoge... As Scripture also makes it abundantly clear in 2 Thes 2 that the Episunagoge shall not take place until after the antichrist is revealed... The key verse that is in error via English translation is 2 Thes 2:7... The Greek does not say... until He is TAKEN OUT OF THE WAY “ The phrase is “Ginomai (1096) ek mesos... Until He brings to pass from out of the midst... (by context the unrestraining of the mystery of lawlessness) and then the lawless one is revealed... It’s not the rapture that brings forth the antichrist (2 Thes 2:3) but the Great falling away from the faith into apostasy... =Cause/Effect response by God’s timing not Satan’s... Emotional response for what we desire to be in terms of escapism does not change reality... The Word of God warns all Christians who shall be alive at that time that they will go through the great Tribulation/persecution of Satan against the saints and not to be deceived otherwise...

[@FirefighterAliveJC]

I have yet for anyone arguing for pre-trib this: Paul said we will not precede those who are asleep. The dead shall rise first then we will meet the lord in the air. Jesus said he will “raise him up at the last day” John 6:40 Also, God told Daniel that he would be resurrected at the end of days. So that alone points to a post trib rapture

[@johnssmith4005]

I know but then you have these Pre-Trib brainwashed delusional cultists who say that THE FALLING AWAY = THE RAPTURE , some of them are completely brain dead and can't even understand the definition of basic words like AFTER for example

[@freddhernanadez2230]

@@johnssmith4005 you're a blind idiot

[@texasswade8453]

When Jesus told the disciples about the horrors of the Tribulation, He was asked where the faithful would be during this Tribulation. Jesus said that we will be where the Eagles fly. Noah never had a drop of rain land upon his head. Not a stone fell on Sodom before Lot was safely away. God does not punish his people. The faithful do not endure The Father’s wrath. Those who don’t believe in the pre-Tribulation rapture will be caught off guard.

[@FirefighterAliveJC]

@@texasswade8453 please show me the scripture where Jesus said that

[@texasswade8453]

@@FirefighterAliveJC Luke 17:37

[@TeaKayEm]

A brave teacher this Dr Keener, because it goes against the normal grain of escapism in America.

[@JesseMgala]

The Scriptures say, Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted WORTHY TO ESCAPE all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. So if don't want to ESCAPE, then stay for the trib.

[@TeaKayEm]

@@JesseMgala I believe in a pre wrath catching away. The key is being worthy, which means having a love of the truth in one's heart 2Thess to not believe the big deception coming on the earth. Take the mark then no escape.

[@TeaKayEm]

@Gretchen Page Though in this case I don't think it's an act of false worship to take these vaccines, I'm not going to, and I would cite Paul's admonition to do things (food for example) if one has the faith for it, but not to stumble the brethren. When it becomes a matter of buying and selling and it's the mark of a man (the one of sin) then we have to take our lumps by refusing. We are sadly, but also with lots of hope, coming to those days. Jesus didn't say 'Look up for your redemption draweth nigh' for the whole 2000 years, but for the last of the last days, and the clincher is Israel regathered, and all the global/political/religious/technological means almost totally in place. (Satan tried too early with Hitler, and other despots, or it was a test run, to warn us all of it's very real future).

[@TeaKayEm]

@@JesseMgala We are to escape the falling away, during this testing. Enduring to the end.

[@johnmcclarty298]

The church is mention after chapter 4. It's called the saints.

[@chrisdale7492]

Agree, otherwise who are the following chapters written to (the lost?) I think not

[@jamiehansen1763]

Who knows if anyone will see a comment this late... but, there is not just a difference between the rapture and the second coming, but a PROFOUND difference. Every verse concerning the rapture (His parousia, His presence) gathering the overcoming believers, all of the messages are "encouraging, our hope, comfort each other, etc. and all of the verses regarding His second coming carry the message of "fear, terror, judgment, defeating the antichrist, stopping the battle of Armegeddon, etc. Also, there are multiple verses that talk about "being considered worthy to escape all these things Luke 21:34-36, Rev. 3:10 says those who keep Christ's word of endurance will be kept OUT (Greek word "Ek") of the hour of tribulation. Also, in Rev. 19:14 it says the armies IN heaven who are dressed in white linen (same white linen seen in verse 8) which is the righteous acts of the saints COME BACK with Christ at His return. How did they GET INTO heaven to be able to return with Christ? Jude 24 states Christ returns with "myriads" of His saints as does the book of Zechariah in Chapter 14. There are dozens of specific "rapture" verses. Also, in Rev. 13: it says EVERYONE who refuses to worship the mark of the beast must be killed. If all are killed who do not worship, who are the "living caught up with the dead in Christ". Finally, Rev. 12: is one of the most astounding rapture chapters in the scripture. Unfortunately, almost all teachers, authors, etc. say this is simply a chapter about the birth of Christ and so it is pretty much ignored. However, this is clearly an end time chapter because it begins with John seeing a beast with 7 heads and 10 horns. Nothing in this chapter fits with Jesus except "the child shall rule all nations with a rod of iron. However, Rev. 2: 26-27 says that the overcoming saints will also rule with a rod of iron along with Christ. Verse 5 of Rev. 12 is a powerful proof scripture that this manchild is the overcoming church brought to the full stature of Christ "unto a perfect man" as it says in Eph. 4: They are caught up to God and to His throne. That is how the saints of Rev 19: got into heaven to return with Christ. Sadly, many online teachers are "stealing" the great hope of the church. Multiple verses say that Christ will gather those who are "looking, longing, and still believing" in being gathered to Christ and being changed from mortal to immortal. There is no hope in having to endure the tribulation under the darkest, satanic oppression and only martrydom to somehow be caught up a few hundred feet into the air and then turn right around back to earth. That's like saying you will have to have all your wisdom teeth removed without Novocain and they won't come out so they have to be pounded and dug out... but when the pain is over you will be really happy. So rejoice!! Don't let anyone steal your crown and your reward.

[@carolinalonewolf9445]

First time I've seen your channel. I'm a preacher of the Gospel. Fine job young men! 👍👍👍👍👍

[@dailybibleverses4903]

Impatience and not wanting to suffer (even if it’s for Christ) is the characteristic of this generation. It’s going to be very hard for many people, but it will polish you like a diamond to be ready to meet Jesus. Remember that we are all appointed to death, not even the disciples were spared tribulation and death, so if you will not experience death, it’s going to be very special. As with everything that is valuable, there is a price to pay. Just be strong, pray a lot and trust in God until the end, no matter what.

[@TomCoteTheTomCoteShow]

I get what you are saying but all of the suffering has been at the hands of other humans - during the tribulation the suffering will be from God himself and he sees his Son in us and won’t strike his Son again! Just like Moses struck the rock twice and lost entering into the promised land.

[@gsumbaugh3099]

There is a distinction as the rapture is being caught up in the AIR, THE AIR, to meet the Lord and so shall we be with him forever. The 2nd return of Christ is with thise saints he rapture 7 years beforehand, and it will be the Day of Wrath, a day of gloom and clouds, and Jesus coming back to Earth. He is confused.

[@duncescotus2342]

Hi. I like your beret girl drawing. How did you do that? What significance are you placing on "the air." Is it metaphorical? Semi-metaphorical. I wonder.

[@dianecarr4957]

@@duncescotus2342 it is literal, in the air means in the air

[@duncescotus2342]

@@dianecarr4957 Ok, sister. And the sky is literal too? And heaven, which is the same word as sky in most languages other than English. At some point, something has to be figurative. How about the "prince of the powers of the air?" Isn't air here figurative? This rapture doctrine stands and falls on small passages of text. Big doctrine, little attestation. That's not very Godly. IMnotsoHO.

[@jamesdavis2830]

Imagine you ,accusing the scholar of being confused!!where you studying at

[@jamesdavis2830]

@@dianecarr4957 no it isn't,not the greek word ,the word used here doesn't have anything to do with the earth or it's atmosphere,air here means wind,or the ruach or spirit,the proper rendering,we the church will meet him in the spirit,because we take on a spiritual body

[@bairfreedom]

ALL of the early church fathers when speaking of the Lord coming , They ALL speak of it as a post trib rapture. That his appearing triggers the resurrection of the dead AND the rapture. Just like it says in scripture in that order.

[@jayjay-bz3rr]

The best way to understand the Rapture, stay with the Apostle Paul’s letters to the Church. We are rescued, delivered from God’s Wrath.

[@shim8711]

😐 someone dosent know who Paul was speaking to 😬

[@Kman.]

I would agree, yes. The tribulation begins in *Revelation 6,* yet in *Rev 5:8-14* you find a great company from every tribe, tongue, people, and nation is seen in heaven _BEFORE_ the tribulation begins. That great crowd is *NOT* described as martyrs, yet later in Revelation, all other references to great companies *ARE* described as such, martyrs. They are martyrs because they made it through the tribulation period. *Rev 7:9* "After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues...". Well who are they? They're described in *Rev 7:14* where it says of them, "...These are they which came out of great tribulation...".

[@userm180]

paul never said the pre trib happens

[@Kman.]

@@userm180 You would have been better off just saying you don't believe the pre-tribulation rapture, because the majority of the teaching can be found _ALL THROUGHOUT_ his writings. Now...what passage would you like to discuss, or what verses/passage do you want to put forth to support w/ever position it is that you subscribe to?

[@userm180]

@@Kman. ''he who endures unto the end, the same shall be saved''- the Gospel of JESUS written by matthew 24:13 Also, let's read carefully: For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.1 thessalosians 4:16-17 this same exact event occurs in 1 corinthians 15:51-53, but there's an extra detail added that makes everything make sense: it says at the last trump."Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, *at the last trump* : for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. " also, do you remember when JESUS said it's going to be like in the days of noah and lot? noah and lot werent raptured up in heaven, but they were proected from the tribulations they faced by GOD's grace and mercy.

[@salasanthonysamuel]

Maranatha! When the the tribulation- the great one occurs, as we are a part, could the falling away be some of us that have this escapist concept? Enduring to the end is spoken of. Why endure if we are not involved

[@biblehistoryscience3530]

Samuel Anthony Salas, Jesus said to believe, and repent and pray to be counted worthy to escape all the things that are coming and stand before the Son of man. Failing that, he instructed you to RUN from civilization and resist the beast to the death.

[@eiderfsshow5704]

they want to be israel...only israel will go through the tribulation until the 2nd coming of christ.

[@afergone]

When you are born again you are filled with what? Are you not filled with the Holy Spirit? Does it not say that the restrainer Hass to be removed before the antichrist can be revealed? Isn’t the restrainer the Holy Spirit? So if were born again filled with the spirit of God which is the holy spirit how are we still here when the tribulation happens?

[@biblehistoryscience3530]

@@afergone, Jesus promised that hell would not prevail against his church, and he gave them power and authority over all the power of the enemy, then he gave gifts of the Holy Spirit after his Ascension which empowered the church for their mission. But Rev 13 says that Satan makes war against the saints and overcomes them, so either the church was raptured before the great tribulation starts, or these are huge contradictions. And this is one of the reasons why the restrainer in 2 Thess 2 must represent the Rapture of the Spirit-filled church.

[@bronzemv4440]

@@afergone 2 Thess 2:7 should be looked at in the literal Greek. "Taken" in the time of the KJV had the potential meaning of possession. I take "out of the way" as an idiomatic match for "arises from amidst." It is worth digging into. The pre-trib was not made until the 1800's.

[@jw2442]

I didn't know anything about this pre-trib, post-trib rapture debates until maybe two or three years ago. I always had the impression we'll have the tribulation, then the 2nd coming of Jesus.

[@gsumbaugh3099]

The word clearly states to pray that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things, and obedient faithful servants are going to be caught up in the air with the shout of the bridegroom, who takes his bride up to meet him in the air ... nothing is said about Jesus coming to earth at that time ... as it clearly states so shall we ever be with the Lord, ... and it's clear that the Word is very explicit about those who are looking and waiting for the Day of the Lord as the Day of Christ's 2nd return to earth is a day of gloom and clouds. Jesus isn't coming for his bride on a horrible day like that. Go read your Bible and ask the Holy Spirit to guide you into all truth ... he will show you that Jesus is a rewarder of good to his servants. Yes it's true Christians suffer persecution and hard times, but the Word of God needs to be read in context. There are different eras in history of suffering and times of peace. There is only one 2nd return of the Lord and that's his return for wrath, at his 2nd coming, and we who are faithful, are not appointed unto wrath. I asked God to show me the truth and he did. He has me painting the 5 unwise and 5 wise virgins for a reason, and it's because Jesus will call only the wise virgins to be caught up, and it's his church, the bride of Christ, but the unwise virgins will not be caught up to meet the Lord because the pleasure of sin for a season was their idols, and they are not walking in the Holy Spirit. Only those without spot or wrinkle will be caught up to meet Jesus in thr air. we saints cannit be lukewarm, as Jesus warns about that, so love God, love your neighbor and keep yourself from idols, and watch for Jesus to shout to come up. It will be so cool to come back with him when he returns. I'm excited! 🙏🙏✝️🕊👍❤

[@gsumbaugh3099]

There's a meeting in the air with the saints, then later we come with him at his 2nd return. I'm excited. It's really close. These two events are separate and there has to be a great falling away first, then the Antichrist will come on the scene.

[@curious011]

that because all the christian writers wrote that. it's now dug in. almost all churches teach it but it was not the teaching before the 1800s

[@uptownlife42]

Watch chuck missler on revelation

[@revelationrevolution]

May I recommend a book titled Revelation Revolution: The Antichrist, Angels and the Abyss. This author challenges both John Walvoord, and Dwight Pentecost, and includes their correspondence from both of these scholars. The basic premise is the Holy Spirit in the church is not the restrainer of 2 Thes. 2, and how that impacts pretirbulationism downwind in the book of Revelation. Numerous scholars are quoted, MacArthur, Geisler, Walvoord, Pentecost, F.F. Bruce, Loen Morris, DA Carson and more. It's 130 pages but well worth the read

[@callalily7130]

Pretribulation position doesn’t equate to escaping persecution. It’s clear believers have been persecuted and martyred since the death of Stephen.

[@bethelshiloh]

Matt 24. One left one taken. Taken where? Not to a good place. It’s not about rapture. It’s about gathered to judgement.

[@icejiujitsu1]

It’s in the context , like Noah’s flood, taken : aka Die... You’re right this is not about the Rapture because only Paul was revealed that mystery not Mathew.

[@ben.s.harper89]

Strong's Definitions: παραλαμβάνω paralambánō, par-al-am-ban'-o; from G3844 and G2983; to receive near, i.e. associate with oneself (in any familiar or intimate act or relation); by analogy, to assume an office; figuratively, to learn:-receive, take (unto, with). You may want to do some word studies before you just listen to any teaching out there. Above you will Find the definition in the Greek to the word taken

[@ben.s.harper89]

@@icejiujitsu1 Matthew recorded what Jesus said. So Jesus didn’t have an understanding of the rapture?

[@gerard1954]

@@ben.s.harper89 Jesus was talking about the 2 Nd coming not the rapture . The one taken and other left has nothing to do with the rapture because the rapture only the dead in Christ are raised and the church gets taken and his rewards are with him. At the 2nd coming we come with him Joel says 10,000s of his saints come with him to rule .

[@jonathonlandry642]

Pre Tribulation Rapture is a false doctrine of man. Not biblical.

[@Platlin]

Since others commented before the video so will I. The Bible defines itself. The Wrath of God does not happen until after Jesus returns. There must be 20 verses that talk about tribulation. And in the vast majority they are saying the we will go through much tribulation as followers of Christ. I believe the pre-trib rapture teaching will cause untold numbers to fall away from the church when they find themselves in the middle of tribulation and are still here.

[@suzannedemers7419]

I am a new bible reading Christian , my question is this: Moses made two trumpets, would that not represent a trumpet intended for Israel and one for the Christians? From my research, the sound of the trumpet is for gathering (other reasons as well) , also the Feast of Trumpet , no one knows the day or hour that it will start because two witnesses must see the new moon, once this has been confirmed they sound the trumpet, the last trump blown is the loudest and longest which is to advise / gather the Jews for the Feast of Trumpets. Also Jesus says in Rev 3:10 that the church of Philadelphia would not go through the tribulation.

[@beyenotdeceived5169]

@@suzannedemers7419 1 Thess.4:16 **VOICE** of an Archangel... Rev.4:1 **VOICE** like a Trumpet... Rev.10:7 "But in the days of the **VOICE** of the Seventh Angel when he is about to sound, *****THE MYSTERY***** of God would be FINISHED as HE DECLARED to His Servants the Prophets "* The 2 Witnesses are Prophets Resurrected and Called up *@ the LAST Trumpet* Its a MIDPOINT Event.

[@beyenotdeceived5169]

@@suzannedemers7419 You are not the Church of Philadelphia, they were **MARTYRED** so Rev.3:10 does not say what the lies of Pre Trib add to it. How long do you think an *"HOUR"* is anyway ?

[@daystar39]

This is about as good as possible ...well done men!

[@gg0drk041]

nope...

[@kensmith5810]

It's okay that you don't believe being caught up before the wrath God, comes over the entire world. When this was first taught to the Thessalonians it was the encouragement that held them together, like in 1st Thessalonians 4:18 Therefore encouraged each other with these words,and in 15, According to the Lord's own word, John 14 I am going to prepare a place for you and if I go I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.. We all know God is going to bring his Wrath upon the entire world, his word says we are not to suffer the Wrath of God, and going through the tribulation, would be going through the wrath of God, which is what you seem to be looking forward to, so he comes back like a thief in the night to take us up out of it, Romans 5:9 Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him! 9:22, What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath--prepared for destruction? Why would you want to be a part of this? 1st Thessalonians 5:9 For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath. but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. He died for us so that, weather we are awake or asleep, we may live together with him. Therefore encouraged one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing..Saying your going through the tribulation period doesn't sound very encouraging, 2nd Thessalonians 2:7 For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work, but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way, And then the lawless one will be revealed,

[@DP-ih6nt]

They don’t want to believe it. They want to be tribulation saints, but will squall like little girls and tuck tail and run when it happens.

[@jash7401]

Amos 5:18 Woe to you who desire the day of the Lord! For what good is the day of the Lord to you? It will be darkness, and not light. It will be as though a man fled from a lion, And a bear met him! Or as though he went into the house, Leaned his hand on the wall, And a serpent bit him!

[@kensmith5810]

@@jash7401 yes I'm looking forward to the Lord catching us up on the day he comes for us, He tells us to be ready and waiting for Him, because we don't know the day or hour when He appears, that we might be caught unaware and be ashamed at His appearing. You too should be reddy for Him, because His return is imminent, we don't go through the tribulation period, we will be with Him at wedding feast of the Lamb.

[@jash7401]

@@kensmith5810 You didn't happen to be in Oahu Hawaii in 71 did you?

[@robertabrown4123]

See how post trib is easy to explain and understand using direct scriptures, not imagination and adding thoughts that aren't there!

[@HarpazoReady2022]

Are these added thoughts: Revelation 1 opens with “Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.” Here is the layout: Revelation Chapter 1, 2 & 3 The church is mentioned 19 times and then never again Revelation Chapter 4:1 is a picture of the catching up of the Church (Ekklesia in Greek) Revelation 5-19 is the 7-Year Tribulation (144,000 Jewish TRIBES accept Jesus as Messiah) Revelation 20 is the Millennium Revelation 21 & 22 is the New Heaven and New Earth Throughout the Old Testament, there are several illustrations of a pretribulation rapture: 1. Joseph took a Gentile wife before the 7-yr famine in Egypt. 2. Lot was called out before judgement. 3. Enoch (the Church) was taken by God BEFORE the flood (Genesis 5:24) but Noah (Israel) stayed through the judgement of the flood. God kept them safe in the boat. 4. Daniel, Shadrack, Meshach & Abednego all broke the law of refusing to kneel before King Nebuchadnezzar. Yet only Shadrack, Meshach & Abednego were cast into the 7-times hotter fiery furnace. They are a picture of Israel. But there was a 4th person in the fire with them...God. But where was Daniel?? He’s not there. Why? Because Daniel was spared and exalted to a high position BEFORE THE FURNACE. This ALSO illustrates Israel during the Tribulation when they realize the Anti Christ is NOT the true Messiah when he goes into the Temple. They refuse to worship him. It’s also interesting in Rev 3:22 He who has an ear, let him hear what the spirit says TO THE CHURCHES. Then in Rev 13:9 If anyone has an ear, let him hear. (no mention of Church bc we’re GONE) If the church is not leaving before the 7-year Tribulation, then the Apostle Paul in 2 Thess 4 would be WARNING us about surviving & not ENCOURAGING about escaping. None of this means if you don’t believe this, you’re not a Christian. It’s just a wink from the Lord of his pattern for those that delve in their Bible deep enough to see it. Seek and ye shall find - Matthew 7:7

[@justinevans9662]

@@HarpazoReady2022 Daniel Ch. 9 is about Israel and the coming Messiah Jesus. "Seventy weeks are determined for your people and for your holy city" vs 24, what were they to do within those 70 weeks "To finish the transgressions, To make an end of sins, To make reconciliation for iniquity, To bring in everlasting righteousness, To seal up vision and Prophecy, and to Anoint the Most Holy", Jesus fulfilled all of this. Verse 25 “Know therefore and understand, That from the going forth of the command To restore and build Jerusalem Until Messiah the Prince, There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;" after seven and sixty two weeks, 69 prophetic or 483 literal years Jesus would step on the scene and begin his ministry. The decree to rebuild Jerusalem was given in the year 457 BC, see Ezra Ch. 7, if calculate 457 and minus it from 483 we get 26 but since there is no year 0AD we add a year showing the transaction from 1 BC to 1 AD making it 27 AD which is exactly when Jesus was Baptized and began his ministry. Verse 26 “And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;" after Jesus came he died not for himself but for all of us. Verse 27 "Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;" this final week the 70th is in reference to Jesus and his followers confirming the New Covenant promised to Israel first through Christ's ministry and then with the continuation of the spreading of the gospel to the Nation of Israel through his disciples and apostles."But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering." Jesus' Ministry lasted 3 and a half years, no longer were sacrifices required because the ultimate and final sacrifice took place the death of our dear Jesus Christ. This rounds up the timeline to about 31 AD after Christ's disciples become apostles and continued to spread the Gospel to Israel for another 3 and a half years finishing the prophertic timeline in the year 34 AD, what happened in this the Church had it's first marter Steven who was stoned to death for preaching the Gospel. Saul who later became Paul was present and from then on the Gospel was preached to the Gentiles. Matthew 21:43 NKJV “Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it. Prophetically speaking God is finished with the Physical Nation of Israel and has turned his attention to Spiritual Israel the Church. In case you are wondering if God is absolutely finished with the Physical Nation of Israel he is not. This very moment he is working a miracle bringing souls to Christ and grafting people in Physical Isreal and other middle east countries into Spiritual Israel, I strongly believe that the One For Israel Ministry is proof of this fact. I say Spiritual Israel because when we accept Christ, who is the Jewish Messiah by the way, we are grafted in the stock of Israel and have become Spiritual Jews by faith. Below are a few Bible texts to support this view. Romans 2:28‭-‬29 NKJV For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God. Romans 9:6‭-‬8 NKJV But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.” That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed. Romans 11:17‭, ‬19‭, ‬23‭-‬24 NKJV And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree? Galatians 3:26‭-‬29 NKJV For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

[@gerrydixon619]

Also tribulation and wrath are two different words in the Greek. I hear many saying, 'we are not appointed to wrath!' We are not, but He also promised that He will never leave nor forsake us and there will be protection for those who put their trust in Him. We are also plainly told that those who 'eat His body and drink His blood will be raised at the Last Day.' That means at the final trump and Martha told Him, 'I know my brother will be raised at the Last Day.' She knew exactly when He would return!

[@robertjones9991]

Dr. Keener really confused me. I am glad Christ is coming back to set us all straight. “Even so come Lord Jesus.”

[@dpbierman2586]

😂... well said Robert💪🏻

[@trevormink7605]

He Is confused himself. Futurism was introduced by the Jesuits (the false prophet) to deflect attention from antichrist (popes of rome)

[@chrisward4576]

I don't see what everybody is getting so worked up about, it is not, I repeat, not a Salvation issue even if it was true, which it's not. After you buy his books and CDs he's going to have your address and then you'll be getting hit up for love offerings for the work of God. And at that point, if you send Money, you have been truly deceived. That's just what they do

[@beyenotdeceived5169]

@@chrisward4576 You a liar. Lies heresy blasphemy n false prophecy are indeed a Salvation issue: *OSAS DispensationalIsm is FALSE: **Gal.**5:13**-*21** **Rom.**11:13**-*22* *Eph.5:1-7* *Gal.6:7-8* *Rev.2:5* *Rev.2:16* *Rev.3:5* *Rev.3:16* *Rev.21:8* *Rev.22:12*

[@gabriellegracie9472]

Yes exactly McDonald's is handing out doctorates

[@iotianooroa812]

I as a Christian have enjoyed your program. Thanks

[@Sanslab-wu8tv]

Thanks! I'm ordained with a denomination that interprets one of its "fundamentals," which speak of the "immanent return of Christ," as the pre-trib rapture, requiring people like me to "not make an issue" of this if we cannot find this Darbyite teaching in the Bible (which I cannot -- I am a historic premillennialist). I believe this dogmatism is hurting us.

[@elkegloeggler]

Hope for pre-trib but prepare for post-trib. I personally don't see enough evidence for pre-trib rapture. The scriptures warn us so many times to get ready for the second coming. What do we need to prepare for when we are not even going to be there?

[@rhonareddix20]

Pray to be found worthy to escape these things, meaning some won't be prepared and have to go through?

[@kingsolomon3175]

@@rhonareddix20 if you read all the gospel accounts, he’s referring to those he has told to flee Judea at the abomination of desolation. Other gospel accounts use “strong enough”. But Luke uses righteous because only the righteous will heed the warning. Everyone else in their arrogance will sadly not escape. Old Testament has many passages of what will happen. Israel will be laid bare aside from a surviving remnant, just like the past exiles.

[@jsteele650]

Do me a favor and do a study on the 3 major harvests in Israel. There are lots of minor crops but, there are 3 major harvest crops. They are barley, wheat, and grapes. You will study several verses that show these crops. Barley and wheat are both planted at the same time but Barley matures faster...apply that spiritually. 🙂 There are 3 companies departing out of here. Barley is his bride. She is the first fruits of the new creation. She leaves at pre trib. The Lord shows us this in type and shadow in Genesis. WHILE ADAM SLEPT (the church as a whole is in a deep sleep because of the apostasy) GOD FORMED A BRIDE OUT OF HIS RIB. This is a small company of believers that will make up a remnant bride.....a rib portion. She is caught up in Rev 4 when he tells John, "Come up here!" He is caught up directly into the throne room. The bulk of the church will be left and be gathered up shortly after. They loaded onto a new ship in Acts 27.....Castor and Pollock. They are headed to Phoenecia in Rome!!! Do you know what Phoenecia means? LAND OF THE PALMS🌴 Which is very interesting because that is what the bulk of the church is found holding in their hands when they are gathered up to heaven in Rev 7 as the great multitude AKA...The Innumerable Company. The Lord wiped tears from their eyes, they realized what they missed. The final company is the 144, 000 Jews that is caught up to the 3rd heaves, right at mid trib. This is the grape company harvest. The door is shut in heaven because the celestial mystical body is now complete!!! Think of this: * There are 3 stories in Noah's ark. * There is a Barley, wheat, and grapes company * some sowed 100, some 60, some 30 * There is Sun glory saints, moon glory saints, and star glory saints * Peter was given the vision on the rooftop of a fitted sheet with all manner of beasts inside from the four corners of the earth from every nation and tongue....He saw it come down THRICE...3 TIMES!!! * You can see these 3 ranks in Acts 27 the swimmers swam to shore, some floated in on boards, and others came in still holding onto pieces of the ship...3 groups of people

[@jsteele650]

I am your sister in Christ. A 3 part harvest is woven everywhere in scripture.A pretrib bridal rapture is the first trump out of here. The apostle Paul was given this mystery of the bridal calling message. You have to have doves eyes to see it. Doves have keen vision and can see afar off through the lens of the Holy Spirit. The Lord does not return physically for the harvest of these 3 companies, they are caught up to be with him. The Lord only returns once and that is at the end of tribulation when he sets his feet on the Mount of Olives. The barley loaves are baked in an intense heat before being caught up to be with the Lord. Imagine, not only being rejected by the world but also, your very own brothers and sisters in Christ. The bride is going to go through a deep trial before she is taken up to heaven. Let me show you that it is in scripture not just with the multiple types and shadows. 1 Corinthians 15:37 [37]And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: Meditate and really chew on this scripture. Have you heard the phrase, you are what you eat? Well apply this spiritually. It is saying by reading God's Word, you are sowing and you are going to bare something or become something. He says there may be a chance that you will be a wheat and be apart of the wheat company. The most important part of this verse is right here because it is one of Paul's Mystery's because she is hidden here. Now read it [[[ OR ]]] you might become some "other type of grain!!!" This is a BARLEY GRAIN. SHE is the first fruits of the new creation. Let's continue: Philippians 3:11 If by any means G1513 I might attain G2658 unto G1519 the resurrection G1815 of the dead. G3498 This verse was written by Paul too and is the only place in the Word of God where resurrection means exanastasis. Meaning taken from or to go out from among the resurrected ones. If by any means, he wants too attain to this high calling. Philippians 3:12 Not G3756 as though G3754 I had already G2235 attained, G2983 either G2228 were already G2235 perfect: G5048 but G1161 I follow after, G1377 if G1499 that I may apprehend G2638 that for G1909 which G3739 also G2532 I am apprehended G2638 of G5259 Christ G5547 Jesus. G2424 The bulk of church are saying they already attained the crown. They are saying the whole church is the bride of Christ. This is something that you have to run after our chase after! You apprehend Christ and he will apprehend you. It's a love relationship. Let's go to another verse: 1 Corinthians 9:24 Know ye G1492 not G3756 that G3754 they which run G5143 in G1722 a race G4712 run G5143 all, G3303 G3956 but G1161 one G1520 receiveth G2983 the prize? G1017 So G3779 run, G5143 that G2443 ye may obtain. G2638 All Christians are in this race to win a prize. What is the prize? Winning Christ as your bridegroom and then you will be given a crown to jointly rule and reign with him. It says, SO RUN !!!! THAT YOU MAY OBTAIN because we have not obtained yet. We know that Christians are the ones running here to win this prize. How do we know this? Because the unbeliever is looked at like they are dead in trespasses and sins. Dead men can't run or even walk for that matter. That's a fact because there is no life in him! This verse also says one will win this prize. This is ONE COMPANY OF BELIEVERS: the barley company! The church is warned hold that fast what thou hast so no man take thy crown. Man's doctrines will rob you of this crown. They will make you believe there is no pre trib rapture and you won't run! Doctrines also tell the church they are all in the bride of Christ and that will cause them not to run too because they think they already have the crown!! Revelation 3:11 Behold, G2400 I come G2064 quickly: G5035 hold that fast G2902 which G3739 thou hast, G2192 that G2443 no man G3367 take G2983 thy G4675 crown. G4735 He that hath an ear let him hear what the spirit is saying to the church! I pray he let's you see and open your new creation eyes to see as a dove sees.

[@stephentaylor2051]

Michael, we will be caught up to Him to be in His camp, to be on His side when He destroys His enemies.

[@joehallam1231]

Amen!

[@newmoonsyzygy]

The angels join Christ in the battle of Armageddon. The body of Christ remains in heaven.

[@userm180]

What are u talkin ab

[@userm180]

?

[@markrobertsministries]

@@newmoonsyzygy wrong

[@Lemonarmpits]

I came to Christ at 11 years old went away for awhile came back in my early twenties and started to really study and I have never believed in a pre-tribulation Rapture and I felt to be all alone. The scripture is adamantly clear and why people don't understand is beyond me I just want to go home and be with the Lord

[@americanlostinvietnam3721]

you should think about enduring and winning souls for the Lord. You should want to stay here for as long as possible so you have something for Him when you see Him. You going to go there empty handed? I get your meaning, but this is not a time to despair. It's an exiting time to be alive and to be a witness to the lost. You may have a chance to die for your faith, which the word says that "you are blessed".

[@clementlesaint4272]

Are you a mid trib doctrine believer?

[@MrChrispy777]

The scriptures are abundantly clear. 1st Thessalonians 4, 1st Corinthians 15, and 2nd Thessalonians 2, tells us the details, and add to that the types of Enoch, Noah, and his family, John, in Revelation 4:1, Lot, and his two daughters, in Genesis 19:21,22, and others who God took out of the way, before judgment fell. Revelation has zero regarding the church, after chapter 5.

[@richardadams7940]

@@MrChrispy777 amen!!

[@markyearty6717]

@@MrChrispy777 100% Agree

[@crackerjack9664]

Jesus asked the question, will he find the faith when he returns We also know from Gods word that there will be a great falling away in end times. Christians who think that they will be raptured before the tribulation will find out that they haven’t and possibly think they did not make the cut and fall away, Jesus had his tribulation and he is the way truth and life

[@calvinmonroe2408]

Question… how can we comfort one another with words that say we are destined to go through Gods wrath along with all those who outright reject His ,Gods offer of salvation and restoration and Grace?all who are Saved are saved from the consequences of the Wrath of God aimed at unbelievers and usurpers who reject the Finished work of Christ jesus done for all who by faith believe wholeheartedly

[@bairfreedom]

The wrath of God is judgement... We are spared from that

[@grabngame8256]

@@markwhite5926 romans 1 if you read it right it is what happens to people in this grace period when you ignore God and do your own thing. It’s God’s passive wrath. He’ll blind people and hand you over to satan when they enjoy doing their own sins. Judgment is when the rapture hits will be his active wrath, As it says in Revelation. Ask God to help you understand the Bible brother. I never understood it because I wasn’t born again. Now that I’m born again he has opened my eyes to the word and I can understand it better than I’ve ever have. God bless you

[@curious011]

There is NO way to know who is right. all it will do is pit one person against another. NO position has proven correct

[@cokefishtail]

The rapture and tribulation are 2 events it is 7 years hell om earth why in world would you want to be here for that? Church is gone revelations 4...

[@curious011]

@@cokefishtail Revelation 4 does NOT say the church is gone. It says John was called up, not the church. you are reading into the Bible things it doesn't say and we were warned NOT to do that. You are basically repeating Hal Lindsey and Tim Lahaye.

[@rocky8014]

I hope and believe you guys are wrong. I believe in the same God of Noah, Lot, Enoch and Elijah. He will not punish the righteous with the wicked. That wouldn't be just.

[@baxter5006]

1 Thessalonians 5:9 For God chose to save us through our Lord Jesus Christ, not to pour out his anger on us. We are the church of grace and we encourage one another with the rapture of the church. The tribulation is Jacob's trouble not for the Bride of Christ, it is for the ones who rejected Christ and missed their visitation. We will be called away before the Tribulations! Be encouraged!

[@2Thes22]

God does not punish the righteous. There is tribulation/persecution of Christians at the hands of Satan by way of the Antichrist.

[@KallyKafritsas]

Rocky, they serve their father the devil. In Revelation 4 and 5, read VERY carefully in prayer. We see a door open in Heaven (same door the wise virgins enter) we hear a voice that sounds like a TRUMPET 🎺 saying’Come up hither’(the rapture) in a twinkling of an eye we are in Heaven. Now we see the REDEEMED Around the throne, caught up out of every tribe , nation, and people, casting their crowns, singing a new song (Only the Redeemed know Rev.14:3) waiting for Jesus to begin opening the FIRST seal BEFORE the tribulation begins.

[@nopms]

Amen ...our Kinsman Redeemer is NOT a wife beater.

[@KallyKafritsas]

@@nopms Amen, beautifully stated.

[@fritzbiederstadt4869]

The main point is to be ready and watching. I agree with this point of view, although I have a few things I'm still laboring over. But I learned the pre-tribulation view point and had the same experience, unable to the pre-TRIB concepts when compared to scriptures. A friend of mine brought it up and said some stuff that got me thinking. I started studying through Mt 28, Rev 6, 12 and 13 and Dan 7 and forward. When I did this 'without' trying to prove the Pre-TRIB viewpoint, things started to start lining up. Bottom line, as I stated before...The main point is to be ready and watching, which for me is the real challenge.

[@TRUTHSEEKER12397]

Jesus said 9x in Matt 24 not to be deceived and not to believe anyone that says they're him before the tribulation.

[@jmfoty4280]

Exactly. Another thought... If the dead in Christ and those alive in Christ receive their glorified bodies and meet the Lord in the air before the tribulation, when do those who are beheaded during the tribulation receive their glorified bodies? Where in Scripture is there a second resurrection of the dead in Christ that the tribulation martyrs would need? Simply, we are called to endure until the end.

[@7Logik]

Na that's the Jews , right divide

[@TennesseeTicketMasters]

Noah was saved and lot was saved before God’s judgement fell.

[@susanwilson1230]

We, the saved who belong to and are in Christ, are no longer reserved reserved for the wrath of God and there are examples of this throughout the Bible, starting with Noah. With all due respect, you are not rightly dividing the Word, you are twisting it and taking things out of context. The trumpet at the rapture and the trumpets in Revelation are two different things and are unrelated. There is biblical evidence to support the pre trib view all the way through Scripture. 2 Thess 2 clearly states the anti christ, “the man of lawlessness,” cannot come to power until the “Restrainer” is taken out of the way. The Holy Spirit is the Restrainer and is taken out of the way when the Church is taken out. Revelation saints after chapter 3 are those who come to Christ after the tribulation begins. There is so much more depth to this.

[@TennesseeTicketMasters]

@@susanwilson1230 I agree with pre tribulation Rapture! I was just saying God rescues his own before judgement falls.

[@jayrodriguez84]

@@TennesseeTicketMasters The seals and trumpets are NOT God's wrath.

[@christopherwalls4337]

@@susanwilson1230 I'm reading 2 Thessalonians 2 and seeing where verses 6-8 about the restrainer being taken out of the way before the man of lawlessness can be revealed. I'm wondering what your take is on verses 1-4? Verse 1 says "concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him" and verse 3 says "For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed." If "our being gathered together to him" will not come until the man of lawlessness is revealed, could that mean that the Rapture (our being gathered to him) does not happen until after the man of lawlessness is revealed?

[@TennesseeTicketMasters]

@@jayrodriguez84 hahaha! Ok

[@JesseMgala]

When Paul spoke about the rapture, he didn't tell us the timing. So don't mock those who believe in the pre-trib rapture as you did in the first minute of the program. Regardless the guest said at around 11:20, rapture and the second coming are the same thing. Based on John 14:2-3, 1Cor 15:51-52, 1Thess 4:16-17, the following are going to happen at the rapture. 1)The Lord will descend from heaven. 2)The dead in Christ will rise first. 3)Those alive and remain will be caught up/changed in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. 4)Ascend to heaven to inhabit the dwelling places Jesus has prepared. If you see 2) to 4) happening in Matt 24:29-31, Mark 13:26-27 and Rev 19:11-21, then rapture is post-trib. But unfortunate for post-tribber the only thing the rapture and the second coming have in common is the Lord's descending. And if you go to 2Thess 2:1-8, rapture can never be a post-trib.

[@herbbearingseed]

And WHEN does the dead in Christ rise? 7 years before the last day? NO! At the last day. John 6 :39,40,44,54 John 11 :24-26 KJV

[@herbbearingseed]

Job agrees Job 14 :12-14 KJV Until the heavens be no more. Jesus agrees, Sun moon stars immediately AFTER the tribulation, never ever before. Matthew 24 :29 KJV The righteous shall never be removed, but the wicked shall not inhabit the earth. Prov 10 :30 KJV

[@JesseMgala]

@@herbbearingseed I'm sure the day you are thinking of to be the "last day," there is no rapture. But maybe you can disprove me by telling me when the last day is. Job 14: 12-14 tells nothing about the rapture. He doesn't even know that his suffering is from satan, when he said, "until thy wrath be past." In Matt 24:29-31 there's no rapture either, but it's the gathering of the elect.

[@nevig6557]

Core Teaching : "I will NEVER LEAVE YOU nor forsake you. .I am with you ALWAYS. .even unto the end of the age "- Jesus. .GOD. Core Teaching " You'll be LEFT BEHIND! " - Imminent Rapture doctrine Quizz: Which of the above accords with the WORD? The simple answer closes the case really.

[@JesusIsComing1111]

That can mean the end of the church age hence the rapture. Just sayin

[@nevig6557]

@@JesusIsComing1111 "This testimony is true. Therefore rebuke them sternly, so that they will be sound in the faith Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth." Do you perhaps recognise the above? Just curious. Actually, there are believers thoughout the age. Its why Jesus says "I will never leave you nor forsake you..and ".. lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen. And..as you know people in this doctrine contend " The age of Grace ends" . You must know this. So.."The Grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen." - Rev 22.21. Here, in the last words of Revelation, you see that fable collapsed. "Grace" is with all believers up to the very last. No sheep are left behind anywhere..Jesus Himself goes out to find even one.

[@Steve-fe4lq]

@@JesusIsComing1111 there is no such thing as the "church age" found in the Bible

[@LastDaySaintJames]

@@JesusIsComing1111 why does the bible teach the rapture is at the last day. There can be no more days after the last day. ONLY one long 1000 year day. As long as you disagree with GOD's word, He don't save those who reject HIS WORD Just look at satan for example. he rejects GOD's WORD and he is eternally damned.

[@christopherperkins2395]

Raptures occurances in our bible 1- enoch 2- moses body 3- Elijah 4- jesus 5- saints 6- paul 7- pre trib believers. This one is under the most fierce attack from those who want to stay here to see if their faith is real for 3.5 more years, claiming that the church believers need tested, Today believers are being burnt to death, shot imprisoned, persecuted starved etc, others have their churches closed, hated by the world and the biggest test of all is prosperity and an aboundance of goods and entertainment, the true test for these Christian's is to let go of their wealth and give to the poor starving hurting missions of 3rd world Christians, or stand up for jesus in an atheist society. Right now we struggle to be a light in a world of darkness, to give us more darkness is not God's motive but to redeem us to himself, as a dear Father. If you want tested, sell all you have and go preach the gospel, I'll fund your rent and food till we are called up, now what more do you need? 8- 144,000 raptured 9- moses and Elijah raptured 10- gatherering to Jerusalem Hope this encourages you in this sinful world, Confort one another with these words A time of Jacobs trouble =1 week= 7 year's. A covenant is made with the Jews for 7 year's. At mid trib the devil is only persecuting the Jews God prepares a place of refuge for the Jews in the mountain's Daniel , Jeremiah and Matthew 24 and Revelation 6- 20 give us a clear description of what Daniel's 70th week is about. In the first 3.5 year's the jews accept the man of sin as their messiah Jesus taught this, saying, " John 5: 43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive" Matthew 24:28 is the great feast or battle of ARMAGEDDON 3 verses later is the gathering by the Angel's to Jerusalem. Now the jews hidding will want to know if its the true messiah since they have been deceived already jesus says when he comes it will be like LIGHTNING from east to west, everyone will know, and since the sky is dark from the moon not giving her light neither much light from the sun , every single person will see Jesus come easily. Of course this starts the 1000 year millennium, Confusion comes by reader's at vs 41 etc Jesus gives a brief timline of events but he fills in with some details afterwards, eg. If i told you were i lived new Zealand, America korea, america, new New Zealand, America, new Zealand, Australia, Philippines, Australia, new Zealand, then went back and explained that i flew to New Zealand 13 times from Australia, you might think i was an Australian.... no it just means i went on holidays to Australia then flew home to new Zealand... so yes adding details In Mathew 24 verse 41 Jesus explains some details, Two women are not buying flour from a shop, but in secrete or in hiding will be grinding wheat to suvive. They dont have a covid passport mark of the beast so they will have to make their own food, one believes in jesus the other doesn't but knows the mark of the beast is deadly and refuses to worship an image. The beginning of revelation seals. In the early days of the 70th week before the Jews flee to the mountain's at seal number 5 In revelation 6 we have all believers getting beheaded or killed, these believers ask God how long till they are avenged, Jesus answers saying just wait till your brethren are killed also there is no rapture for the believers or new converts but rather an exucution for all believers. Revelation 6 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. So yes all believers will be killed. Then who is this matthew 24 rapture for????? Angel's gather who to Jerusalem. Well only Jews are commanded to flee into hiding for 3.5 year's and they will gather food from fields and have to grind their own grain to survive and yes some will be scattered around the world in hiding, as they know worship of an image is idolatry . I'm guessing a few lost people will be hiding as well and join up with these Jews some believe some don't, So we have 99% of believers killed, a few remaining new believers in hiding will be gathered by Angel's to Jerusalem after the battle of ARMAGEDDON. Eagle's feast before the angels gather the elect from the ends if the world. Revelation 6 Seal 5 all believers are killed or about to be No loving God would murder all his children and bride for 3.5 or 7 year's then take the last starving survivors up to Jerusalem to celebtate victory over the world. Honestly your god may be Allah Jesus wouldn't do that Also picture illustrations are all though the bible. Daniel didnt go though the fiery furnace, Noah didnt go though the flood but was resuced, lot way resuced, moses at the red sea was rescued God always protects his children when he punishes the world. The world is being punished for the evil they have done, God gives them blood to drink etc

[@jefflee2050]

I am looking for churches that believe a mid-trib or post tribulation rapture but I can only find churches that teach a "beam me up Lord" pre-tribulation rapture. Pre-trib is taught as true so matter of factly as if it is absolutely true and their entire congregation or even denomination just accept it as if it must be true. Whenever they speak of the tribulation they always say "its terrible but dont worry we wont be there" but I dont find this to be true at all. I can not find a bible believing church that will accept the fact that the Bible teaches tribulation is against the saints and the church that we will go through tribulation and we are not raptured out of tribulation. Are there denominations or churches out there that teach mid trib or post trib rapture? Please help me find some.

[@chrisdale7492]

Stand your ground brother , keep loving God's word and family

[@sc6530]

That was great! I especially appreciated the John 14:2-6 explanation.

[@helper650]

John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

[@christiansaint716]

I guess what sealed the post trib rapture for me was reading 2 Thess 2 where the Apostle Paul clearly says in plain terms that we will be raptured (gathered to Him) after the ac is revealed. Rev 20 also gives details about the resurrections. The first resurrection will be the saints who will be beheaded during the trib and will reign w/Christ, then after everything is said and done, the rest will be resurrected and the judgement. The other reason I didn't agree w/pre-trib was that it is FAR too popular. God's true Word has *never, ever* been popular at all! In fact, those who did preach/prophesy His true Word were very often persecuted and/or martyred.

[@revelationrevolution]

May I recommend a book titled Revelation Revolution: The Antichrist, Angels and the Abyss. This author challenges both John Walvoord, and Dwight Pentecost, and includes their correspondence from both of these scholars. The basic premise is the Holy Spirit in the church is not the restrainer of 2 Thes. 2, and how that impacts pretirbulationism downwind in the book of Revelation. Numerous scholars are quoted, MacArthur, Geisler, Walvoord, Pentecost, F.F. Bruce, Loen Morris, DA Carson and more. It's 130 pages but well worth the read

[@Mike65809]

@@revelationrevolution It is interesting to look at the Greek in that passage of 2 Thess. 2. One viable interpretation is "he who restrains will do so until out of the midst he manifests." There is no "taken out of the way" in this understanding. Very interesting. Not sure why so many render it as they do.

[@liuqiuokiman7302]

@@Mike65809 The restrainer being taken out of the way is Michael the archangel that is according to the book of Enoch.

[@Mike65809]

@@liuqiuokiman7302 Yes I think Daniel may also be saying that in Ch. 12. There is an interesting discussion is out there online regarding this passage and renders it, "he who restrains will do so until out of the midst he manifests." Not sure it's right but it does help clear up the restrainer issue. God bless.

[@christiansaint716]

@@liuqiuokiman7302 I have read that once before many years ago. I truly believe that he is the restrainer b/c he is the chief Warrior Arch Angel.

[@dfkuz]

I really liked Dr. Keener's wrap-up focusing on the two things we can count on no matter what: Christ's return and spending eternity with him! I learned something this past year that blew me away, though, and that is, that nothing in the Gospels or the Book of Acts can be applied directly to us today because Jesus was only speaking to and calling Jews (never Gentiles) in the Gospels; and there were no Gentiles like us (we're descended from pagans) in the Acts churches because pagans were not eligible at all to hear the gospel or be saved by it! I know, harsh, right? This means that it's a huge blunder to believe that Jesus was speaking to or about us in his earthly ministry and he said himself that he was was only unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel, so why would we think he had us in mind? And the epistles of Paul, except for a portion of Ephesians and Colossians, are not written to, about, or even for us whatsoever. It doesn't matter if you are a "Jew" or a Muslim, or whatever; after Paul said what he did in Acts 28:28 KJV, every single (unsaved) person alive then or yet to be born was reckoned to be just the same as everyone else - a pagan, a sinner in need of a Saviour (Colossians 3:11 KJV); but back in the Acts period before that occurred, only believing Jews and Greeks were even allowed inside the Acts churches which were often held in synagogues, and that is why the Greeks were asked to obey the ordinances from the Jerusalem Council so that they would become just kosher enough to rub shoulders with observant Jews in the churches. They were also water-baptized as Peter ordered in Acts 2 as a way to show faith in the Messiah, but the Greeks were not asked to be circumcised because they were the Gentiles prophesied in the OT to go into the kingdom with Israel and act as their servants, and if they had been circumcised, they would cease to be the second class citizens they needed to be to play that role. All of the Jews in Acts were obeying the Law of Moses, not for salvation but because it was their very identity! (Acts 21:20 KJV). All of the Greeks were obeying the Acts 15 ordinances and there were no Gentiles in the churches who were not. Both Jewish and Greek believers were told to do "works meet for repentance," Acts 26:20 (the antithesis of OUR gospel in Ephesians 2:8 & 9 KJV that has NO works of any kind required, although we are encouraged to do them as a part of walking worthy of so free a salvation)! The Greeks were the only Gentiles to be graffed in to the olive tree of Israel's blessings; there were no regular, pagan-variety Gentiles in that position at all ever. It was their "fulness" that was to have come in so that all Israel could be saved - not Gentiles like us! The Jews and Greeks in the olive tree were warned that they could be "cut off" if they did not "abide," Romans 11:22; but our salvation is eternally secure, Ephesians 4:30 KJV! Unlike the pagans suddenly saved after Acts, the Greeks - who were prophesied to be the provokers of the Jews in Deuteronomy 32:21 KJV - were blessed by Israel's covenants of promise (because they had blessed Israel with their interest in their Messiah and with money and goods like Cornelius in Acts 10, the first Greek saved had done) and they were not "aliens of the commonwealth of Israel," but they were aligned WITH Israel; and because they were allowed to learn about and worship the God of Israel and his Son, also God and the Messiah of Israel, they had HOPE and had "God in this world." Compare that to the description of our spiritual ancestors, the pagan Scythians, who were just the opposite, according to Ephesians 2:11-13 KJV! It's about time that we that love God and his word finally find our place in it! The other thing that is so important - and without this fact nothing is ever going to really make sense - is that at Acts 28:28-31 KJV, Israel forfeited her kingdom hope FOREVER! Everything connected with it and promised to her was rescinded and canceled due to her failure to accept the proposal of remarriage that the Son of God had offered to her! I'm sure her rejection hurt God deeply and there is no reason to think he will come back with that offer again! Think about it! The biblical nation of Israel no longer exists! Its identity has been usurped by the descendants of converts to the religion of Judaism (not the same thing as the nationality) from Eastern Europe. And besides that, there is nothing written after Acts ended that even hints at Israel being given another chance. The Revelation of John was written during the Acts period (or he would have mentioned the destruction of the temple but instead wrote like it was still there!). I believe that it was John and his vision during the Acts period that Paul wrote about when he said, "I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven." 2 Corinthians 12:2. I realize that most Bible students believe Paul was referring to himself BECAUSE they've been (wrongly) taught a late date for the Revelation, so it isn't their fault! Once we realize that Israel lost her kingdom hope at the end of Acts, it's easier to place things in their proper order. All of Israel's end-time prophecy was canceled at the close of Acts, and no more chances will be given to her (as she doesn't really exist anyway). That makes it a moot point to argue exactly who, what, where, and when, any of the prophecies yet unfulfilled belong to! There is now new prophecy that only concerns the Lord Jesus Christ and those that have had faith in him and/or his Father during the time they lived: a NEW return of Christ, probably a quiet return - Colossians 3:4 KJV; and a new earthly kingdom, one without Israel's name on it! - Colossians 1:13 KJV. No tribulation period except the waxing worse and worse of evil men and seducers (demons) up to the day of Christ's appearing. The saints from time past and the former pagan believers in Christ (Ephesians 1:1 calls us, "the faithful in Christ Jesus") are made of twain "the one new man" of Ephesians 2:15 KJV and it is that new man that is the fellow heir of Jesus Christ when he receives his kingdom from his Father, and will dwell with Christ in that kingdom for eternity. Israel has become a non-entity and their promises have become moot as is fitting due to their failure to recognize and welcome their long-awaited Messiah. There never was any "pre-trib rapture" because there would now be no tribulation; Israel had been appointed to wrath, not us! They were called to repent (Acts 26:20 KJV) because they were the ones that broke God's heart - not us! And, yes, 70 AD did fulfill Christ's prophecy of "no stone left upon another," but the prophecy of the rescue of the bride from that wrath and the subsequent Marriage Supper of the Lamb were not fulfilled and never will be. I know it's very uncomfortable thinking that God would break his promises, especially after all of his impassioned statements of "forever" love for Israel, but God can and does break his promises if he has cause to do so; case in point, the promise of Jesus to return in the glory of his kingdom before his followers had all died (Matthew 16:28 KJV), which he did not keep but not because of any fault in him, but in his would-be bride, Israel. The sincerity of God cannot be questioned, as well as the fact that as the model gentleman, he would never force the issue! It's time for all of us to look at the scriptures from a different angle and at least consider that perhaps there's a different ending to this story and like so many fairy tales (which just might be subconsciously modeled after the greatest story ever told), the homelier younger sister (I'm taking poetic license here!) is the one whose dreams come true, much to her surprise (because believers ignorant of God's change of plans WILL be shocked, that's for sure; unless those of us that see it now get this plot twist out there in the stream of consciousness! I realize this is a shot out of left field but I hope that anyone reading this will at least tuck it into the back of your mind and let it roll around there as you sort through the information in the Scriptures. I think you will eventually see the truth of it!

[@ericedwards5034]

So, Jesus didn't speak to the Samaritan woman and then the whole town. He didn't offer salvation to them? And when Jesus said that all who believe in Him will have everlasting life, he really meant all the Jews? And Paul wasn't really the apostle to the Gentiles and no Gentiles were saved? Yu're sure this is what yu want to stand on because there is NO Scripture that backs that up. Of course Jesus wasn't talking to us directly, but that doesn't mean the message wasn't for Gentiles. Even Jesus said that he was sent to the Jews first, but that he had other sheep not of this fold that must be brought in so there would be one flock with one shepherd. Were those just other Jews?

[@dfkuz]

@@ericedwards5034 Thank you for asking! Samaritans were relatives of the Jews; my mom would have called them, "shirt tail relations." The Samaritans were the "other sheep, not of this fold," that you mention. The Samaritans worshiped the same God as the Jews and that is why Jesus did confide to the woman that he was the awaited Messiah. It's interesting that he would offer words related to salvation to the woman living with a man not her husband but he uttered not a word of how to be saved to the Syro-Phoenician woman in Matthew 15 who was probably a good woman and her admission that she was a "dog" seemed to please him. But she was not in the queue for salvation at that time so Jesus stayed within the parameters marked out for him by his Father. When Jesus said those things in the gospels, he was not dealing with what would come later, which was the commission that would be given to Paul to take the gospel to not only other Jews but to a certain type of Gentile that are called, "Greeks," God-fearers, and who were the subjects and the fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy such as Deuteronomy 32:21, the angering of the Jews by a foolish nation (Romans 11:11); and Isaiah 60:3, that Gentiles would come to Israel's rising as subordinate to the Jews in a serving role to them in their prophesied kingdom IF that kingdom became a reality (which it didn't). That they would be servants to the Jews in the kingdom was the reason that the Greeks weren't required to be circumcised, but only water baptized and obey the Acts 15 ordinances, because if they had been circumcised, they would have been Jews and equals with the Jews, and not of a low enough status to be expected to be servants to the Jews. So, yes, there were Gentiles in Paul's Acts ministry but for those very specific reasons: to provoke the Jews to jealousy in hopes of saving enough Jews that the kingdom could be realized, and to secure a class of willing servants to the Jews who would have the preeminence in that kingdom. But NO pagan Gentiles (the Greeks were very studious and God-fearing) were even allowed NEAR any of the Jewish believers, let alone allowed to hear the gospel. The Jews then (and the fake Jews now) consider pagan Gentiles not following the law of Moses to be unclean pigs or dogs and don't want us to come near them for fear of contamination, so the Greeks were a very specialized class of Gentile fulfilling OT prophecy that were allowed to put their faith in the Jews' Messiah to further fulfill that prophecy. But you and I would have sent them all running away so as not to be in contact with our germs. We could have knocked on the door of the synagogues where Paul held his churches in Acts all day long and they would not have even opened it to us to yell go away! They considered us that filthy! And that's why it is so astounding that after the nation of Judah was divorced by God in Acts 28:28-31 that God then turned to the world at large - a world filled with unclean Gentiles _ and offered us eternal life as a free gift (Ephesians 2:8 & 9) and not a word was said about us having to change our ways or start eating kosher! He accepts us just as we are - IF we place our faith in his Son! I suggest that you watch the KZbin channel, "Are You Muddy?" with teacher, Rick Aden - and he's not your suit and tie kind of guy! I learned a lot from him, and having been Mid Acts myself for 20 years, I understand his anger at having been led astray by their mixed up doctrines!

[@davidfriesen9512]

Did Noah enter into the ark before the flood or during the flood or after the flood? Did Lot leave Sodom before the fire fell or during the fire falling or after the fire fell? Jesus our commander and chief said that as it was in the days of Noah and Lot that's the way it will be when He returns.

[@thinkie12]

Who was taken in the flood? They were taken in death. One was left and one was taken. Taken where? Where the corpse is, there will be the vulture. Taken in death, they were not rapture. Post trib is the most logical one.

[@beverlybond6266]

Thank you for this program. W hen he mentioned Daniel being raised at the end of the days, I was reminded of the search through scripture that verse recently sent me on. I found that the word "perfected" as Jesus used it in responding to Herod's threat(He said and, forgive me, I am in too much pain to look up those verses right now) "...and on the third day I shall be perfected " And Paul later wrote that God having something better for us (the church) that they,without us, should not be perfected. So the old Testament saints and the church saints will all be resurrected together and not at different times. I used to wonder about the saints talking in heaven before the tribulation but their souls could be there long before their bodies are. And when Jesus returns with the saints He is bringing the souls down to earth to place them in their newly resurrected bodies. Bodies are made for living on earth, not in heaven. And it doesn't say Enoch or Elijah have their new ones yet. I am 70 years old and have not believed in a pre-tribulation rapture since I was 21. But then I have been an independent thinker .Also, since when has the majority been right?

[@Bazooka_Sharks]

Enoch and Elijah never died though...so they dont need new bodies. They will be the two witnesses/prophets that are killed in Revelation. They are the only two people to never die, but the Bible says its appointed man once to die. Once those witnesses come back to life 3 days later, they ascend into heaven with their bodies still.

[@pambentivegna7565]

So God is going to protect a select group of Jews during the tribulation but let the church go through it? That seems odd. Also there are many church fathers through the centuries who wrote about a pre trib rapture. The last trumpet very well could relate to the Feast of Trumpets, not the revelation trumpets. Did Paul know about Revelation? And what about the mysteries Paul received? I appreciate your view but this didnt change my mine. God bless!

[@Bazooka_Sharks]

@@pambentivegna7565 you can't read revelation without reading Daniel 10-12. 10-12 originally was all one chapter, it wasnt broken up. Power is given to the little horn to make war with the saints (church) and to cast them down. The jews that survive will be barely surviving

[@gatzu8599]

@@pambentivegna7565 what is so hard to believe the church going through tribulation? Do you not know the history of christians? Or know what's happening to christians today in china and muslim countries? Pre trib rapture doctrine is luxury for the soft who thinks it's okay for christians all over the world, through out history to go through tribulation but except for them.....

[@FirefighterAliveJC]

@@Bazooka_Sharks YES! I’m always so confused as to why people think Moses is one of the witnesses

[@fosterlanham1379]

Steve Gregg at the narrow path is one of the best teachers I have heard. His teaching on Daniel and revelation as well as sermon on the mount is really eye opening

[@geraldpchuagmail]

Me too! I listen to him everyday

[@KallyKafritsas]

Because you do not endure sound doctrine. You love to grovel at the feet of lying false teachers.

[@geraldpchuagmail]

@@KallyKafritsas Explain.

[@KallyKafritsas]

@@geraldpchuagmail Answer one simple question, who are the redeemed?

[@geraldpchuagmail]

@@KallyKafritsassimple answer. Those who put their faith in Christ.

[@inspirittruth1985]

Yeshua never once said I will take you there, He said so where I am you also may be. He brings THEIR home down here.

[@sherry3049]

We will be here through the 6th seal

[@warrior4jesus79]

Nailed it.

[@cokefishtail]

The rapture is when Jesus Christ returns to remove the church (all believers in Christ) from the earth. The rapture is described in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:50-54. Believers who have died will have their bodies resurrected and, along with believers who are still living, will meet the Lord in the air. This will all occur in a moment, in a twinkling of an eye. The second coming is when Jesus returns to defeat the Antichrist, destroy evil, and establish His millennial kingdom. The second coming is described in Revelation 19:11-16. The important differences between the rapture and second coming are as follows: 1) At the rapture, believers meet the Lord in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:17). At the second coming, believers return with the Lord to the earth (Revelation 19:14). 2) The second coming occurs after the great and terrible tribulation (Revelation chapters 6-19). The rapture occurs before the tribulation (1 Thessalonians 5:9; Revelation 3:10). 3) The rapture is the removal of believers from the earth as an act of deliverance (1 Thessalonians 4:13-17, 5:9). The second coming includes the removal of unbelievers as an act of judgment (Matthew 24:40-41). 4) The rapture will be secret and instant (1 Corinthians 15:50-54). The second coming will be visible to all (Revelation 1:7; Matthew 24:29-30). 5) The second coming of Christ will not occur until after certain other end-times events take place (2 Thessalonians 2:4; Matthew 24:15-30; Revelation chapters 6-18). The rapture is imminent; it could take place at any moment (Titus 2:13; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 1 Corinthians 15:50-54). Why is it important to keep the rapture and the second coming distinct? 1) If the rapture and the second coming are the same event, believers will have to go through the tribulation (1 Thessalonians 5:9; Revelation 3:10). 2) If the rapture and the second coming are the same event, the return of Christ is not imminent-there are many things which must occur before He can return (Matthew 24:4-30). 3) In describing the tribulation period, Revelation chapters 6-19 nowhere mentions the church. During the tribulation-also called “the time of trouble for Jacob” (Jeremiah 30:7)-God will again turn His primary attention to Israel (Romans 11:17-31). The rapture and second coming are similar but separate events. Both involve Jesus returning. Both are end-times events. However, it is crucially important to recognize the differences. In summary, the rapture is the return of Christ in the clouds to remove all believers from the earth before the time of God’s wrath. The second coming is the return of Christ to the earth to bring the tribulation to an end and to defeat the Antichrist and his evil world empire

[@freddhernanadez2230]

Okaaayy. Be careful what you wish for.

[@sherry3049]

If you read the Bible on your own,without being taught about the pretrib rapture, you would not come away with all believers will be taken out before the tribulation. Did God take the prophets away before they were killed? Did He take the disciples away before they were killed? No He didn't. People really think that we are so special that we don't have to suffer.

[@freddhernanadez2230]

@@sherry3049 And if you read the Bible( not on your own like YOU) but with the Holy Spirit guiding you you'll know it's PRE Tribulation Rapture. If you're really ready to listen I'll prove that to you backing it up with Bible and Holy Spirit discernment

[@francish151]

before I believe on the Pre Tribulation, but I grow I now believe in the Post tribulation, Those who believe in the Pre tribulation, then tribulation comes and they hope to be rapture and it did not happen . then the Bible says there will be a Great Falling away .. this are the people who believes in the Pre tribulation rapture.. will loose their faith in God.

[@madisonwilloughby9525]

Or the great falling away will be among those who failed to trust Jesus' promise to deliver them from the tribulation, and they are left on earth. It will be among those who 'hedge' their bet, hunkering down for life in the tribulation as opposed to trusting Jesus to get us out of here! Please read this article and the one titled 'Rapture of Christ's Church" God bless, M. www.madisonwilloughby.com/rapture-additional-scriptures.html

[@Kman.]

The "FALLING AWAY" I don't believe has a/thing to do with an apostacy w/i the church. Consider this... In *II Thess 2:3* where it says, " Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a *falling away* first…", but the"departure" can also be a PHYSICAL departing… · Context is king, and *II Thess 2* refers to the rapture *IMMEDIATELY* in verse #1. · *NOWHERE* does Paul speak of a "faith apostasy: in 1st or 2nd Thess. Again, context. · The NT church had already witnessed a faith apostasy; *Acts **20:29**,30* The natural conclusion one can draw from that then, is the church *IS* "departing", but it is from one place (earth) & going to ANOTHER place, glory! :)

[@francish151]

@@madisonwilloughby9525 Before I Speak I would like to ask you . What do you believe is there only one God or Three in one God ( Trinity)

[@francish151]

@@Kman. What really do you believe. Right Now as we speak , There are Christians in China are losing their faith in God, They expect to be Save and it did not happen, do you think this is not falling away?

[@madisonwilloughby9525]

@@Kman. Please read the paper at this link and see if you change your mind. It's pretty cool how God's word all fits together. www.madisonwilloughby.com/rapture-additional-scriptures.html

[@kevinvirnelson7868]

If the church were on the earth during the tribulation, what's the purpose of the 144,000?

[@curious011]

you are inserting the church into a bible chapter where the church is not mentioned. that's called reading into scripture.

[@smeatonlighthouse4384]

That is a valid question Kevin. The 144000 are clearly the elect remnant of Israel and not the Church. The church has been removed to Heaven in fulfillment of John ch. 14 v 1-3. It is the fulfillment of the satisfaction of the heart of love of Christ to have His own with Him in the Father's house, and He comes Himself to take us there. It is the angels that bring the 'elect' during the Tribulation period.

[@beyenotdeceived5698]

@@smeatonlighthouse4384 John 14 is ZERO CLEAR about a Pre Trib Rapture and you are a liar adding to Jesus Words.

[@christopherperkins2395]

Raptures occurances in our bible 1- enoch 2- moses body 3- Elijah 4- jesus 5- saints 6- paul 7- pre trib believers. This one is under the most fierce attack from those who want to stay here to see if their faith is real for 3.5 more years, claiming that the church believers need tested, Today believers are being burnt to death, shot imprisoned, persecuted starved etc, others have their churches closed, hated by the world and the biggest test of all is prosperity and an aboundance of goods and entertainment, the true test for these Christian's is to let go of their wealth and give to the poor starving hurting missions of 3rd world Christians, or stand up for jesus in an atheist society. Right now we struggle to be a light in a world of darkness, to give us more darkness is not God's motive but to redeem us to himself, as a dear Father. If you want tested, sell all you have and go preach the gospel, I'll fund your rent and food till we are called up, now what more do you need? 8- 144,000 raptured 9- moses and Elijah raptured 10- gatherering to Jerusalem Hope this encourages you in this sinful world, Confort one another with these words A time of Jacobs trouble =1 week= 7 year's. A covenant is made with the Jews for 7 year's. At mid trib the devil is only persecuting the Jews God prepares a place of refuge for the Jews in the mountain's Daniel , Jeremiah and Matthew 24 and Revelation 6- 20 give us a clear description of what Daniel's 70th week is about. In the first 3.5 year's the jews accept the man of sin as their messiah Jesus taught this, saying, " John 5: 43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive" Matthew 24:28 is the great feast or battle of ARMAGEDDON 3 verses later is the gathering by the Angel's to Jerusalem. Now the jews hidding will want to know if its the true messiah since they have been deceived already jesus says when he comes it will be like LIGHTNING from east to west, everyone will know, and since the sky is dark from the moon not giving her light neither much light from the sun , every single person will see Jesus come easily. Of course this starts the 1000 year millennium, Confusion comes by reader's at vs 41 etc Jesus gives a brief timline of events but he fills in with some details afterwards, eg. If i told you were i lived new Zealand, America korea, america, new New Zealand, America, new Zealand, Australia, Philippines, Australia, new Zealand, then went back and explained that i flew to New Zealand 13 times from Australia, you might think i was an Australian.... no it just means i went on holidays to Australia then flew home to new Zealand... so yes adding details In Mathew 24 verse 41 Jesus explains some details, Two women are not buying flour from a shop, but in secrete or in hiding will be grinding wheat to suvive. They dont have a covid passport mark of the beast so they will have to make their own food, one believes in jesus the other doesn't but knows the mark of the beast is deadly and refuses to worship an image. The beginning of revelation seals. In the early days of the 70th week before the Jews flee to the mountain's at seal number 5 In revelation 6 we have all believers getting beheaded or killed, these believers ask God how long till they are avenged, Jesus answers saying just wait till your brethren are killed also there is no rapture for the believers or new converts but rather an exucution for all believers. Revelation 6 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. So yes all believers will be killed. Then who is this matthew 24 rapture for????? Angel's gather who to Jerusalem. Well only Jews are commanded to flee into hiding for 3.5 year's and they will gather food from fields and have to grind their own grain to survive and yes some will be scattered around the world in hiding, as they know worship of an image is idolatry . I'm guessing a few lost people will be hiding as well and join up with these Jews some believe some don't, So we have 99% of believers killed, a few remaining new believers in hiding will be gathered by Angel's to Jerusalem after the battle of ARMAGEDDON. Eagle's feast before the angels gather the elect from the ends if the world. Revelation 6 Seal 5 all believers are killed or about to be No loving God would murder all his children and bride for 3.5 or 7 year's then take the last starving survivors up to Jerusalem to celebtate victory over the world. Honestly your god may be Allah Jesus wouldn't do that Also picture illustrations are all though the bible. Daniel didnt go though the fiery furnace, Noah didnt go though the flood but was resuced, lot way resuced, moses at the red sea was rescued God always protects his children when he punishes the world. The world is being punished for the evil they have done, God gives them blood to drink etc Paul was given a mystery todays cults now are attacking the blessed hope given to paul

[@blacksheep6888]

Romans 11:7 the elect are Jews and geniles

[@bentonvillefamily]

To answer your question at 34:40 we are given glorified bodies as to why we are caught up in the air. Our physical bodies can’t do that. And it’s like the verse where it says “to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord”, it’s an instantaneous situation where we are caught up immediately with Jesus. And not a rollercoaster ride up. Not sure what happens to our old physical bodies though.

[@davidsolomon5881]

Great interview guys, you were very respectful to your guest. Keep up the good work.

[@waynecolburn8849]

This is so correct. But pretrib people will not hear .

[@dman3943]

1 Thessalonians 5: “for god hath not appointed us to suffer wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ”. That verse also may be evidence of pre-trib. Or does “wrath” in this case mean hell? My first instinct is to assume Trib wrath, but I honestly don’t know. I pray for Pre and to escape what is coming. But I am also preparing for post... either way I daily pray for strength and perseverance in the Lord Jesus.

[@eeforest7122]

It’s important that you know this . Let’s suppose 2 things. The wrath mentioned there can either be hell or talking about the endtime wrath coming on the earth. If we suppose it’s not he’ll, it still doesn’t matter because the tribulation is not the WRATH of God. The great tribulation is the wrath of Satan . Revelation 12 tells us that. The dragon has great wrath because he has a short time so he went after the rest of the saints . So to summarize is The great tribulation is a persecution of Christians for refusal to take the mark of the beast. The day of the lord, or wrath of God is the trumpets and bowls being poured on the wicked for them persecuting the Christians for refusing the mark of the beast.

[@2Thes22]

Tribulation period is not a biblical term. By the Tribulation Period people mean Daniel’s 70th week which lasts 7 years and includes both tribulation/persecution of Christians and the Wrath of God. I believe that the rapture is just before the 7th seal

[@KallyKafritsas]

Let us believe God and NOT these lying false teachers of their father the devil. In Revelation 4 and 5, we see a door open in Heaven(same door the Wise virgins enter) we hear a voice that sounds like a TRUMPET 🎺 saying, ‘Come up hither’ (the rapture) in a twinkling of an eye we are in Heaven. Now we see the REDEEMED Around the throne (the four and twenty elders) caught up out of Every tribe, nation, and people, casting their crowns, singing a new song (Only the Redeemed know Rev.14:3) waiting for Jesus to begin opening the FIRST seal BEFORE the tribulation begins. Only the devil and his workers say they are many views. Liars, only God’s Word, our God is NOT a confusing God, His word speaks for itself. The devil is the perverted and confuser of truth

[@KallyKafritsas]

@@2Thes22 Because you oppose the word of God, and despise truth.

[@uncommonscriptures9418]

Wrath in this verse is not tribulation, Jesus says if we do follow him we will take up our cross and follow him, Paul says he dies daily following Gods word and way, we as Christian will face tribulations and if we are not we may not be living as Christians but merely worldly. Through Revelations Christians are facing trials of many kinds, living as a living sacrifice Romans 12

[@DarrellWolfe]

In context, there is no such thing as a rapture at all. Ben Witherington III laid that out pretty succinctly at SeedBed 7-Minute Seminary. The quasi-rapture-esque verse in Thessalonians refers to the welcome home of the king, we’re not leaving, we’re welcoming him home to Earth. Which has other implications, but among them is that there are no mass evacuations in the future for the church.

[@250miles2]

I think there are several major flaws with the post-Trib view that, even now, I still haven't heard fully rebutted - one of them being, the impossibility of the Gog/Magog war. If all Scripture must be fulfilled, then the Gog/Magog war of Rev. 20 must happen. And yet, if you hold to the post-Trib view, and you believe that the Rapture happens right before the Millennium Kingdom entrance, then there's no opportunity for a war because 1.) everyone entering the Kingdom would have been a believer in Christ that's eternally sealed (1st Thess. 4:17) and 2.) everyone entering the Kingdom would have been a spiritual being and unable to procreate (Matt. 22:28-30). If you hold to the post-Trib view, then there's no one for Satan to deceive - thus the Gog/Magog prophecy an impossibility. This is one of the reasons why I hold to a pre-Trib Rapture view.

[@nodnarb2300]

Hi! Just wanted to respond to see if I could address a couple points here as a post-trib believer. Gog/Magog war of Rev. 20 - Revelation 20:7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. You can see in these verses that this Gog/Magog happens after the 1000 years. This 1000 years happens even after Christ's second coming (See verse 4). The reason why there are so many people on earth is because of the "second resurrection" (where all the lost are resurrected) (Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished...) I hope that makes some sense. You can always respond and we can continue the conversation!

[@250miles2]

@@nodnarb2300 Hey, Brandon! Thanks for the response. I really do appreciate it. So, here’s an analogy that may (or may not) explain one of my objections with the post-trib view: let’s say that there’s a remote island that no one knows about but you. And, let’s call this island, “The island of Brandon”. Now, on this private island of yours, you wanted to do an experiment to see how men interacted with each other over a prolonged period of time, while in a remote and isolated setting. So, you take 10 men and place them on “The island of Brandon” for a year. Well, after a year has passed, you returned to check on the participants, but to your surprise, there are now 100 people on this island. No one was on the island before the experiment started, and you’re the only one that knows the way to the island. So, you’re puzzled as to why there are 990 additional people on this island eating mangos and drinking coconut juice... Kidding aside, this “analogy” loosely describes my objection to the post-trib view. We’re both in agreement that: 1.) there is a Gog/Magog war as stated in Revelation 20… 2.) the war happens after the 2nd Coming of Christ and after the 1,000 years of Christ’s Millennium reign on Earth… 3.) the war is the result of Satan being released from “prison” and deceiving many… Based on my understanding of both views, I think this is something both pre/post trib believers can agree on. Regarding my objection to the post-trib view (I.e. the Rapture happening AFTER the Tribulation)… I like to think in terms of “steps” (I.e. step 1, step 2, step 3, etc.) and, if I’ve understood the post-trib timeline correctly, the sequence of events would be: Step 1: 7-year Tribulation, followed by the defeat of the Antichrist Step 2: Rapture of saints (I.e. those that accepted Christ - living and dead) Step 3: Saints enter the Millennium Kingdom / Millennium Reign of Christ for 1,000 years (Satan bound during this time) Step 4: Satan is released and deceives many Step 5: Gog / Magog war Now, I’ve oversimplified this a little, but if I’m misunderstanding something major here, let me know. Like you, I’m genuinely trying to understand the other’s perspective. If I have this sequence right, here’s the problem that I’m seeing: if you believe the Rapture (step 2) happens after the Tribulation (step 1), then Steps 4-5 can never happen. Part of Step 4 (Satan being released) will happen, but he won’t be able to deceive anyone because there’s literally no one to deceive. And, since he won’t be able to deceive anyone, Step 5 can’t happen. All of this won’t happen because of what’s taking place in Step 2 - the Rapture. 1st Corinthians 15 and 1st Thessalonians 4 (and really, many other passages) contain a wealth of information regarding who will be Raptured, what happens to believers after the Rapture and what our new state of being will be. According to Scripture, when the Rapture happens: - Those that are “dead in Christ” and those that are “alive in Christ” are both taken to be with Jesus - almost instantaneously (1st Thessalonians 4:15-17) - These same individuals will be transformed from physical beings to spiritual beings (1st Corinthians 15:44) - Thus, they will become immortal (1st Corinthians 15:42, 52-56) - And, once spiritual/immortal, they will not be able to procreate, since they’re now spiritual beings (Matthew 22:28-30) - And, once in this new state, they will forever be righteous, forever by Jesus’ side, unable to fall away Him (John 14:1-3, John 10:28) But, if the Rapture happens AFTER the Tribulation… - There’s no opportunity for anyone, other than the group that I described above, to enter the Kingdom (again, 1st Thessalonians 4:15-17) - And, regarding the group described above - they are spiritual beings that are unable to procreate and will always remain by Christ’s side as His Bride So, going back to my original scenario again (10 men on an island)... If you put 10 men on a remote island, you would expect to see 10 when you return. Heck, depending on the men, you might return to find 9, or 8... maybe even 1 remaining. But, you wouldn’t expect 11. It would be impossible to have more than what you came in with, because of the type of individual that’s allowed to enter the island. With the post-trib view - the only ones entering the Kingdom are spiritual beings that aren’t able to procreate and who are unable to fall away from Christ. And yet, “many of deceived” and many will wage a war against Jesus… To conclude - it seems impossible for there to be a Gog/Magog war, if you hold to a post-trib view. Based on my understanding of Scripture and the post-trib view… When Satan is released after 1,000 years, he’s going to find that, everyone in this Kingdom will be spiritual beings, that cannot procreate and cannot fall away from Christ. Brandon, really, great to hear from you. Thanks for following up with me and look forward to furthering this discussion.

[@loksterization]

@@250miles2 my answer to you is that - - why do you think we will be exclusively spiritual beings? We will be interdimensional, because we will receive glorified bodies. However, not all people will be raptured, and it seems there will still be people on earth who will procreate in the Millennium, who do not have glorified bodies. But, I DO see the dilemma that you see, because we do not have much other information on what the Millennium will be like and what will happen there, who will live there besides glorified Christians. I think there are many things we don't know yet and don't fully understand yet. However, I think these problems exist regardless of your view on pretrib or post tribulation raptures.

[@250miles2]

@@loksterization Hey, thanks for responding! I appreciate the follow-up question. So, here’s my response - there are, at least, 2 sections in the Bible that provide support that, there must (I wish I can emphasis ‘must’ more) be a group of people that enter the Kingdom who will be purely spiritual beings. The first section can be found in Matt. 22:23-33. In this passage, Jesus offers a pretty “shut and close” case regarding our new heavenly states. I would recommend reading the full chapter for proper context, but in verses 29-30 Scripture states: “Jesus answered and said to them, ‘You are mistaken, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven.” So, the point here is that, we will be spiritual beings incapable of procreation. The second section can be found in 1st Corinthians 15, specifically verses 44-47. Looking at verse 44, for example… 44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body… “ So, while I agree with you that, not never one will be raptured, I don’t believe the Bible supports the idea that we’re all meeting Christ as one large group. To me, the Bible seems to state that there will be 2 groups of individuals entering the Millennium Kingdom - spiritual beings (those that are Raptured) and physical beings (those that survive the Tribulation). As I understand the post-trib view more, the “2 groupings” concept isn’t a possibility at all - resulting in a number of prophecies never being fulfilled.

[@loksterization]

@@250miles2 you're welcome :) So why do you think post - trib view would preclude a "2 groupings" concept? Because the post trib people also believe in the same Millennium. Unless you're referring to post-Millennialism or amillennialism. The post-trib I'm assuming is still premillenialist.

[@BrandieJo84]

Not even 10 minutes in... scoffing? This video ended there. And 'left behind' is no mocking matter. PreTrib or not, there is only one way to Heaven. Blessings Brothers.

[@JohnMarksQuickBibleTips]

Matthew 24 had a pre-fulfillment in 70 AD… we can get an idea of how the final fulfillment will be from the first fulfillment. When Jerusalem was completely destroyed, the Christians, remembering the words of Jesus actually fled and escaped the destruction.

[@Jacob5297]

If AD70 was a type of the end of the world/Second Coming, what does that imply for modern Zionist Israel that steals, kills and destroys like you know who.

[@JohnMarksQuickBibleTips]

It was a type of the tribulation… if you were to carry on the prophetic picture, the church (followers of Jesus) represent the new Jerusalem. I think you would be foolish to try to use this idea as condemnation of Israel. Not because they don’t deserve it, but because we all deserve it. If you point at them and scoff, you will put yourself in the shoes of the ones who mocked or derided the zealots in Jerusalem 70 AD… yes, the zealots were destroyed but so were the mockers. The only ones who escaped were the ones who believed the Words of Jesus when He said, “head for the hills at these signs”. God will indeed establish Israel again, but this time Israel will be filled with Jews, Arabs, Blacks, Asians, and every other race and culture. There is neither Jew nor Gentile in Jesus.

[@trevormink7605]

Why was it a pre-fulfillment and not a fulfillment?

[@JohnMarksQuickBibleTips]

@@trevormink7605 you could say it is “a fulfillment” but not “the fulfillment”. If you look at prophecies throughout the Old Testament, you see a pattern of an initial fulfillment in their time but a more perfect or fuller fulfillment in the future. One big one is Isaiah where he is telling the king to pick a sign to prove that what he is saying is from God and the king refuses. So Isaiah, through the Holy Spirit, picks a sign for him. He says that a baby will be born to a virgin. A few things about this… the word virgin, doesn’t necessarily mean virgin. In fact, to Isaiah and his immediate hearers, it meant young woman. And indeed, there has to be some sort of fulfillment in Isaiah’s day or then there wouldn’t be a sign to the king and Isaiah would have been considered a false prophet and certainly it wouldn’t have been written down for future generations. At the same time, we know that even though Old Testament prophecies like this one were fulfilled somewhat, there was an expectation for a future fulfillment. This isn’t just something that Christians made up. This was the common way prophecies were treated by Jewish teachers. They were fulfilled but a greater fulfillment is coming. How do we know that Jesus’ prophecy has a later fulfillment? Well, for one thing, Jesus’ prophecy is a piggyback off of Daniel’s prophecy. Daniel’s prophecy had a lot more to it. Some of it yet to be fulfilled. There are some things in Jesus’ prophecy that seem to not be fulfilled yet. Then, on top of that, John piggybacks off of both those prophecies in Revelation. Most scholars, and the early church fathers believed that Revelation was written after the destruction of the Temple. The conclusion that there would be another fulfillment that has yet to happen seems like a strong one to me.

[@jamesdavis2830]

Well Jesus didn't say Jerusalem would be destroyed,he said the temple,and that hasn't been fufilled yet because the west wall is still up,note the Lord Jesus said not one brick will remain standing

[@marylinmuir1224]

I am not convinced. When does he think the Marriage of the Lamb takes place? The church is the bride of Christ. It seems to me that that can’t happen at the Second Coming because in the Second Coming Christ comes to battle and sets up his Millennium Kingdom. Is that going to happen in the the Millennium?

[@antonioskontonasakis]

Yeah it doesn't make sense. What's the point of celebrating a marriage after He sets up His kingdom- that doesn't make sense. Or what about celebrating after the new heaven and new earth? That doesn't seem like a marriage supper, that seems like an anniversary. Post trib rapturists go through a lot of mental hoops to justify their claims instead of looking at what's clearly written

[@MrChrispy777]

I like what Chuck Missler said, IF believers go through the Great Trib; "We'll get married (Jesus is speaking), I'll beat the daylights out of you, and then we'll go out for dinner."

[@jeremy144713]

Your faith should be strong enough to go through some persecution. Jesus even says that we’ll face this. Also don’t you think Jesus wants believers on the earth declaring repentance and salvation before the final judgment day. Makes no sense to torture people without salvation at hand.

[@TheFightingSheep]

In other words, most the church who had the "daylights beat out of" her is not the real bride. The apostate mystery Babylon is the real bride, because she sits like a queen?

[@thinkie12]

We have already beaten by daylights by the covid, by persecutor, some Christians were beaten in Asia for believing in Christ. Some were tortured in prison, some already experienced excruciating pain and some beheaded. Only those in the West never experienced this kind of things.

[@TheFightingSheep]

@@thinkie12 Becase Christians prefer the honor from sinners above the honor from God. The leaven of the Pharisees.

[@michaeldoti3613]

It amazes me that people who call themselves Christians actually think the wrath of God Almighty will be against them. There would be no sense in the cross of Jesus Christ. It was for our salvation through Christ bloodshed and our way of escape from God's ultimate judgment. READ THE SCRIPTURES

[@beyenotdeceived5698]

*WRATH is AFTER the 7th Trumpet, so saith:** #1)The 24 Elders, Rev.11:15-*18-19. #2)The Holy Spirit inspired, John, Rev.15:1,7. #3)THE VOICE from The Temple, Rev.16:1. ***Rev.6:12-17 after the 6th Seal is "Wrath" according to *FEAFUL men* ...men

[@johnlamb2525]

That was a really good and clarifying dialogue! I love Dr. Keener! Thanks for having him on to discuss this heated topic. It was very edifying and civil.

[@NinaCristina12a]

I did not find this clarifying at all, he talked in circles so much that I didn’t ever hear an answer to a question.

[@roedryyrt]

@@NinaCristina12a I agree. He seems to be offering mostly opinion and even admits a couple times he wasn’t sure about some things.

[@beliefbite]

@@NinaCristina12a what question did he dance around?

[@beliefbite]

@@roedryyrt I think it's okay to not have everything settled. Don't you? I would rather be right and not completely certain that wrong and certain in my error.

[@stephenszucs8439]

@michaelparsons5228 There is nowhere in the Bible a single solitary promise of a pre-trib escape. There are numerous warnings to be ready to face persecution.

[@chrisa.9977]

Matthew 24:28 “for wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.” Rev. 19: 17-18 Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; 18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, Are those two verses talking about the same event and thing?

[@tweezy5804]

Wow, that Matthew verse, one will be taken one will be left and then your referemce to luke , really helped me, I had never heard someone explain it like that.

[@neilwani1178]

What does studying the end times without a proper understanding of Daniel's 70th week do? How does that effect a person's interpretation? What has happened with Daniel chapter 9? Why is it so important? Well so many scholars have said it was a prophecy for 490 biblical years. And 483 years were fulfilled when Messiah was cutoff in 33 AD. Then later the temple and the city was destroyed in 70 AD. And 7 biblical years are pending for the future of this world and then Daniel 9 24 will be fulfilled. Bible prophecy did not mention things that happened in the church age. The bible clearly hints Daniel 9 27 is future. Rev 11 2 says there will be a future 3rd temple in Jerusalem. Daniel 12 11 says the abomination of desolation will stop the daily sacrifice. 2 Thess 2 says the man of sin will enter the temple of God and demand to be worshiped as God. Rev 13 5-7 says a man will speak blasphemies and from that day have authority to continue 42 months over saints from all nations. Daniel 7 25 says the saints will be given into the hands of the antichrist for 3.5 years. Matthew 24 15 says the abomination of desolation will trigger the great tribulation that starts the worst time the world will ever see. So if you read Matthew 24 without a clear understanding of Daniel's 70th week, you really say the 2nd coming is the rapture. But with a proper understanding of Daniel's 70th week, knowing the world is headed for a covenant for 2520 days or 7 biblical years, you run into problems. The abomination of desolation has to happen on day 1261 of the 7 year covenant. And from day 1261, the saints are given into the hands of the antichrist for 3.5 years or 1260 days. Day 2520 will be the day of the 2nd coming immediately after the tribulation. The problem with those passages is that scripture cannot be broken. They are saints starting midtrib that start to be martyred on day 1261. And they will be given into the hands of the antichrist for 1260 days. Scripture will not be broken. Daniel 7 25 and Rev 13 5-7 will not be broken. There are no saints better than other saints. And there is no rapture on a day that will be known years before the event immediately after the tribulation. The problems come from the Fig Tree passages and the parable of the 10 virgins where no man knows the day or the hour. But the date of the 2nd coming will be known 7 biblical years before the event. If you read 2 Thess 2 and realize the man of sin is revealed in the temple midtrib, then you realize that the day of the Lord as birth pangs starts after that. And great confusion occurs with our gathering. But then with a proper understanding of Daniel's 70th week again there are problems. The saints are given into the hands of the antichrist for 3.5 years or 1260 days. And Daniel 9 24 occurs immediately after the tribulation on the last day. How can our gathering be any day in the 2nd half? So now you know what is restraining all this that is going to come unto the world. Our gathering is restraining all this. Then worldwide apostasy. Then the man of sin will be revealed midtrib.Then some unknown time in the 2nd half the day of the Lord judgments will start on the wicked as birth pangs and the wicked will not escape. These birth pangs will get worse and worse till the last day. But this will not break the Word of God with Daniel 7 25 and Rev 13 5-7. The saints will be given into the hands of the antichrist for 3.5 years. And the last day of the birth pangs immediately after the tribulation will be known 7 biblical years before the event. What happens when a person starts reading the book of Revelation. They see passages and Jesus coming in the clouds and on a horse. But again with a proper study of Daniel's 70th week there are problems. In the 2nd half Rev 13 5-7 occurs and the antichrist will have authority over saints from all nations for 42 months or 1260 days. And there is a trumpet in Matthew 24 27-31 and the angels gather His elect immediately after the tribulation. But this cannot break the Word of God. A person needs to figure out what day of Daniel's 70th week that trumpet will sound. This creates a huge problem. The book of Revelation only gives the antichrist authority to continue 42 months from the day he speaks great blasphemies. And Rev 1 7 says He comes on the clouds and all eyes will see Him. Meaning in Russia and China and Africa and North America and Japan and South America. Now it becomes supernatural when all the world can see the Lord and angels and heaven open. Zech 14 6-9 and Luke 17 23-37 along with Daniel 9 24 says it all ends on that day. All the wicked are destroyed on that day and that makes the bowl judgments supernatural after the entire world sees the Lord.

[@jash7401]

" I had never heard someone explain it like that." Not even Jesus when he spoke of the days of Noah and Lot did He include it. He instead spoke of the conditions prevailing. Mt.24:38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. Luke adds buying and selling, planting and building, even as some suppose its during the time of God's wrath, contrary to what Christ said.

[@phil_k777]

It never ceases to amaze me how people talk about eschatology, yet avoid discussing The Revelation. It’s not complicated at all. The Revelation is written correctly in the correct order. You do not have permission to rearrange it to suit your particular view. (Rev 22.18-19) The Seals are in sequential order. The Trumpets are nested within the 7th Seal. The sequence of the last three Trumpets is reinforced by the Three Woes. The Bowls are the “seven last”. (Rev 15:1) The Seals are NOT wrath. There is no declaration of wrath from a heavenly authority. The only mention of wrath is at the end of the 6th Seal. And that mention is by people hiding in underground bunkers. That mention cannot be extrapolated to be retroactive to the 1st Seal. An argument can be made that the Trumpets are not wrath either because there is no declaration of wrath from Heaven in the Trumpets either. The Seals are the Beginning of Sorrows, not the 70th Week. The White Horse Rider is not the antichrist. He doesn’t do anything associated with the antichrist. He isn’t associated with the Temple, he isn’t associated with the midpoint of the 70th Week. He isn’t associated with an abominable act. He doesn’t come in his own name. Apollyon IS associated with the Temple, the midpoint of the 70th Week, and an abominable act of killing the Two Witnesses. He is the only named evil character in the entire Revelation. (John 5:43) The Rapture occurs at the end of the 6th Seal and is clearly depicted in Chapter 7. Pre-Trumpets The antichrist Apollyon shows up some time after the rapture during the 5th Trumpet. The 70th Week begins after the 6th Trumpet War and before Temple construction begins. The Rapture is in Revelation 7and is Pre-Trumpets. Find me on Facebook. There is much much more.

[@phil_k777]

💒💒💒💒💒💒💒 🌈👑🌀🌀🌀🌀🌀🌀⬆️ 🌀 🎺🎺🎺🎺🧞‍♂️🎺 🕍 🎺 🍇🍇🍇🍇🍇🍇👀 🍇

[@stephentaylor2051]

Phil Kulis if it is pre-trumpets, how is it at the “last trump, for the trumpet shall sound...”?

[@phil_k777]

Stephen Taylor, thanks for the question. Thats actually very easy to answer. The “last trump” is the voice of God as the Israelis heard in Exodus 19. This is confirmed by 1 Thessalonians 4:16. This is not the same as the seven Trumpet Angels that are nested within the 7th Seal.

[@phil_k777]

Griff, the “time of Jacob’s Trouble is the 70th Week of Daniel. The beginning of Sorrows comes before that. My estimation is the 70th Week is from Feast of Trumpets 2060 to Day of Atonement 2067, exactly 2,550 days as the Bible says. Also ending on a Jubilee year (2067) and within a 120-year generation beginning in 1947/8. Now watch, you who complains about we’re not there yet will now say it can’t go that long.

[@AndreaMendoza-ym9ep]

Are you saying we won’t be here for the Tribulation?

[@maryannvicente774]

Rapture -1 Thessalonians 4:15-18 2nd coming - Revelation 19 My God is not an Author of Confusion. Jesus is the blessed Hope that i am waiting for.

[@robinchrist7172]

Thessalonians is the Second Coming. It even says, we who are here at the coming of Christ.

[@craigmayberry1147]

What purpose does it serve for the church (the ekklesia) to go thru the Great Tribulation?. I've never found anyone who could rationally answer that. until that is answered, the pre-trib still holds more reasonable water

[@uptownlife42]

It doesnt. Watch Chuck Missler on his views. A real eye opener..

[@craigmayberry1147]

@@uptownlife42 thats where im getting the question from. Thank to you to OZ. Thi seems like such a fundamental question that until it us answerd the discussion goes no further

[@uptownlife42]

@@craigmayberry1147 Chuck missler has video commentary on revelations and genesis. They are simply the best. But u can look up his rapture series. He uses video and explains it all..

[@beyenotdeceived5698]

@@craigmayberry1147 Also, can you explain the difference between The Tribulation and The Great Tribulation with SCRIPTURE ? And if not, WHO are you to declare when GREAT Tribulation begins ?

[@beyenotdeceived5698]

Also, can you explain(with SCRIPTURE) how *"the EKKLESIA"* were in the Wilderness with Moses n Jesus, according to the Holy Spirit filled Stephen, in *Acts 7:1-*38 KJV* ???

[@waywardspirit7898]

Good to see so many FINALLY waking up. I use to be a lone ranger om pre-wrath. (for 30 years actually)

[@SpotterVideo]

Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it. The Capitol "C" Church, as we use the word today, is not found in the entire Book of Revelation. Individual church bodies in ancient Asia Minor are found. In Revelation 12:11 we find those under the blood of the Lamb. A person cannot be under the blood of the Lamb and not be a part of the New Covenant Church of Jesus Christ. Verse 12 of this passage proves at least part of the tribulation period is the wrath of Satan upon the people of God. Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. "It may come as a surprise to most pre-Trib prophecy students that the post-Trib position (in its primitive form) is the oldest point of view." The quotation above is from the book "Will You Escape The Tribulation? RAPTURE [Under Attack]", by Tim LaHaye, copyright 1998, Page 197. The gathering of the Church is described at the end of 1 Thess. Chapter 4, and the timing of the event is found in chapter 5. The word “But” in the first verse of chapter 5 connects the two chapters, and the words “we” and “sleep” in verse 10 of chapter 5 prove the two chapters are connected.

[@GoneBroke]

The second coming He puts his one foot down on the Mount of Olives and the church will be with him. The rapture He doesn't come down we the church go up. The 7 years is the wedding ceremony of the lamb or church.

[@curious011]

the Bible does not say anywhere that there is a 7 year wedding or marriage of the Lamb. once again many different verses pulled totally out of the context of the chapter they are in. you can make it say anything that way.

[@beyenotdeceived5698]

*@Gary K* You in Reverse, Lucy. He brings them WITH HIM *@theRapture* ***1 Thess.4:*14*** *1 Thess.3:*13* *Jude 14* ***Zech.14:1-*6*** You REVERSED Gods Word like a good little Luciferian.

[@GoneBroke]

@@beyenotdeceived5698 Zech 14 1-6 describes His second coming not the rapture. 1 Thessalonians 4:16 the dead in Christ will rise first 4:17 those who are alive and remain will be caught up in the clouds together to meet the Lord in the air. This is the Rapture not the second coming. The second coming is after the 7 years tribulation where he will come down and place one foot on the mount of olives splitting it in two and we come with Him. Would be impossible to come with Him if we didn't go up.

[@beyenotdeceived5698]

@@GoneBroke 1 Thess.5:2 *"THE DAY OF THE LORD* is like a THIEF in the Night..." 2 Peter 3:10 "But *THE DAY OF THE LORD* shall be as a THIEF in the night..." Rev.16:13-**15*-16 "...Behold, *I COME AS A *THIEF** ...and they gathered them to... *ARMAGEDDON."*

[@beyenotdeceived5698]

@@GoneBroke 2 Seperate EVENTS:*** *#1)Rapture-* Jesus *COMING* in the Clouds with Great *****GLORY***** and GATHERING His Church, feet not touching the earth, **Matt.**24:30**-31** *#2)"2nd Coming"-* Jesus riding a white horse *COMING* with the Armies of heaven and WRATH/DESTRUCTION, **Rev.19:11-21** NO SCRIPTURES show Jesus coming in the Clouds at PRE TRIBULATION. *These are the 2nd Coming:* Rev.19:11-21 Rev.16:17-21 vs15 as a THIEF Rev.14:17-20 Pre Trib is false.

[@duncescotus2342]

People of God, keep your eyes on the plow, don't look back, never look back, but don't look too far ahead either.

[@nopms]

No, look to Eternity and not the temporal. Resist evil and abide until He takes us home, one way or another!

[@duncescotus2342]

Truly spoken, sister! "We look to those things which are unseen...for what is unseen is eternal, but what is seen is temporary/temporal." (2 Corinthians 4:18). I would say, practically speaking, look to today, seeking our daily bread, taking "no thought for tomorrow," and make the eternal NOW, that is to say make His will done "on earth as it is (eternally done) in heaven." This is the meaning of the Lord's teachings and the New Covenant. Eternal life begins now, as a free gift, and persists beyond the moment we breath our last. We are given UP FRONT resurrection life via the Spirit of God indwelling, the "imperishable seed" (1st Peter 1:23) which cannot die, "CANNOT SIN (or continue sinning)!" (1 John 3:9). As for many, their minds are preoccupied with the end times and except for a few who are called to this branch of theology, largely wasting their precious time. Do Good Works, "which he has prepared beforehand that you might walk in them." While you still have TODAY> Amen?

[@chrisward4576]

Wiser words have never been spoken, that sounds very scriptural

[@duncescotus2342]

@@chrisward4576 Thanks so much, brother Chris, and of course, the idea comes from the Book!

[@chrisward4576]

Yup, Philippians 3:12-14. Leaving that which is behind and pressing on towards the goal... Sometimes it's difficult

[@ednja]

What's the difference between a pretribber and a flatearther?

[@dorislater4826]

He surely did make a good argument that causes me to favor pretrib.

[@beyenotdeceived5698]

*Titus **2:13** Blessed Hope* *****GLORIOUS APPEARING***** **Rapture: Jesus coming in the Clouds with Great *****GLORY:***** Dan.7:13-14 Matt.24:30-31 Mark 13:26-27 Luke 21:27 Rev.1:7 Rev.14:14-16 NO Scriptures show Jesus coming in the Clouds at PRE Tribulation.

[@beyenotdeceived5698]

2 Seperate EVENTS:*** *#1)Rapture-* Jesus *COMING* in the Clouds with Great *****GLORY***** and GATHERING His Church, feet not touching the earth, **Matt.**24:30**-31** *#2)"2nd Coming"-* Jesus riding a white horse *COMING* with the Armies of heaven and WRATH/DESTRUCTION, **Rev.19:11-21** NO SCRIPTURES show Jesus coming in the Clouds at PRE TRIBULATION. *These are the 2nd Coming:* Rev.19:11-21 Rev.16:17-21 vs15 as a THIEF Rev.14:17-20 Pre Trib is false.

[@beyenotdeceived5698]

1 Thess.4:16 **VOICE** of an Archangel... Rev.4:1 **VOICE** like a Trumpet... Rev.10:7 "But in the days of the **VOICE** of the Seventh Angel when he is about to sound, *****THE MYSTERY***** of God would be FINISHED as HE DECLARED to His Servants the Prophets "* The 2 Witnesses are Prophets Resurrected and Called up *@ the LAST Trumpet* Its a MIDPOINT Event.

[@jamesdavis2830]

Exactly what video were you watching?it seems that he says that there is not one scripture to support pre trib...

[@TheMistysFavs]

@Dori Slater --If you are persuaded by these guys THAT easily, how can your heart be with the TRUTH of God's Own words?

[@newmoonsyzygy]

2 Thessalonians 2:7,8 (pre trib Rapture timing)(we go and anti Christ is revealed)

[@louiez5409]

Exactly

[@HarpazoReady2022]

Yep. Revelation 1 opens with “Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.” Here is the layout: Revelation Chapter 1, 2 & 3 The church is mentioned 19 times and then never again Revelation Chapter 4:1 is a picture of the catching up of the Church (Ekklesia in Greek) Revelation 5-19 is the 7-Year Tribulation (144,000 Jewish TRIBES accept Jesus as Messiah) Revelation 20 is the Millennium Revelation 21 & 22 is the New Heaven and New Earth Throughout the Old Testament, there are several illustrations of a pretribulation rapture: 1. Joseph took a Gentile wife before the 7-yr famine in Egypt. 2. Lot was called out before judgement. 3. Enoch (the Church) was taken by God BEFORE the flood (Genesis 5:24) but Noah (Israel) stayed through the judgement of the flood. God kept them safe in the boat. 4. Daniel, Shadrack, Meshach & Abednego all broke the law of refusing to kneel before King Nebuchadnezzar. Yet only Shadrack, Meshach & Abednego were cast into the 7-times hotter fiery furnace. They are a picture of Israel. But there was a 4th person in the fire with them...God. But where was Daniel?? He’s not there. Why? Because Daniel was spared and exalted to a high position BEFORE THE FURNACE. This ALSO illustrates Israel during the Tribulation when they realize the Anti Christ is NOT the true Messiah when he goes into the Temple. They refuse to worship him. It’s also interesting in Rev 3:22 He who has an ear, let him hear what the spirit says TO THE CHURCHES. Then in Rev 13:9 If anyone has an ear, let him hear. (no mention of Church bc we’re GONE) If the church is not leaving before the 7-year Tribulation, then the Apostle Paul in 2 Thess 4 would be WARNING us about surviving & not ENCOURAGING about escaping. Matthew 24 is for the Jews during the Tribulation. It mirrors Daniel 9. None of this means if you don’t believe this, you’re not a Christian. It’s just a wink from the Lord of his pattern for those that delve in their Bible deep enough to see it. Seek and ye shall find - Matthew 7:7

[@seekandfind5704]

Word for word translation -> 2 Thes 2:6 And now the restraining you know, for it reveal him in the himself time. 7 The hence mystery already works the lawlessness(feminine gender) only he restrains now, until out of midst come into being. Not once is The Holy Spirit named. Not once is anyone removed. Let's unpack this. Yes, we know it is by God's will the lawless one is restrained, to be REVEALED in God's time. The mystery of lawlessness (feminine Rev 18?) is already at work but is being restrained and hidden now, up UNTIL (relating to time) out of the midst comes into being (revealed, beast?). See Rev 13:1

[@carlosquinones2242]

@@michaeljkeeney I’m sorry my brother but you are so wrong about that .

[@carlosquinones2242]

@@michaeljkeeney I shouldn’t have to bc you can’t even prove what you’re saying is true in the first place . It’s all conspiracy with no scripture to support It

[@johnbat6743]

Thank you Craig Keener! I was raised in a church family teaching pretrib rapture and with a father who studied revelation for 40 years and was very adamant about pretrib. But in my 20's I began to seriously read the new testament for myself book by book and I began to see it didn't fit. I'm now securely in the same camp as you (and very much a minority in my church group here) and so it's very encouraging to hear you voicing exactly the things I've found when reading for myself. We have to see the text without preconceived ideas and read it for itself alongside itself only. It changes everything. Thank you for adding your voice to the discussion because we need to hear both sides to be properly able to judge and I'm glad the church is being given the chance to hear both.

[@biblehistoryscience3530]

John Bat, had you both studied the rapture while keeping in mind the fact that Paul revealed the rapture mystery not Jesus, you might have found scriptures supporting the rapture rescue before the great tribulation because then you would have understood that Jesus never talked about it using plain language. In short, look for the rapture in things like Jesus' parables and metaphors which he didn't explain.

[@johnbat6743]

@@biblehistoryscience3530 Well I was raised with that understanding. My Dad was of the same mind as you and I was also an avid Chuck Missler fan. However the more I read my Bible and read it in larger chunks letting scripture interpret scripture and putting it all together in light of itself I found I saw something completely different. It wasn't a comfortable transition but I had to go where scripture lead. Not where tradition or others beliefs lead.

[@biblehistoryscience3530]

@@johnbat6743, in talking with post-tribers, I've found that one of their most common arguments is that a person reading the Bible with no preconceived notions would be hard pressed to find the rapture rescue at all, but that was mostly by design. Read the Bible again, while keeping in mind the fact that the rapture was a mystery that Paul revealed, and you can find that it supports a rapture rescue not post-trib. I converted from pre- to mid-trib during the course of my studies, by the way.

[@CountCulture27]

Jesus said like in the days of Noah and in the days of Lot…. How do you get around that the similarity was both Noah and Lot were delivered BEFORE judgement? When Paul says we weren’t appointed to God’s wrath, was he ignoring the whole Tribulation with Earthquakes, water turning to blood, extreme heat, etc. that the Tribulation would bring?

[@jsteele650]

Do me a favor and do a study on the 3 major harvests in Israel. There are lots of minor crops but, there are 3 major harvest crops. They are barley, wheat, and grapes. You will study several verses that show these crops. Barley and wheat are both planted at the same time but Barley matures faster...apply that spiritually. 🙂 There are 3 companies departing out of here. Barley is his bride. She is the first fruits of the new creation. She leaves at pre trib. The Lord shows us this in type and shadow in Genesis. WHILE ADAM SLEPT (the church as a whole is in a deep sleep because of the apostasy) GOD FORMED A BRIDE OUT OF HIS RIB. This is a small company of believers that will make up a remnant bride.....a rib portion. She is caught up in Rev 4 when he tells John, "Come up here!" He is caught up directly into the throne room. The bulk of the church will be left and be gathered up shortly after. They loaded onto a new ship in Acts 27.....Castor and Pollock. They are headed to Phoenecia in Rome!!! Do you know what Phoenecia means? LAND OF THE PALMS🌴 Which is very interesting because that is what the bulk of the church is found holding in their hands when they are gathered up to heaven in Rev 7 as the great multitude AKA...The Innumerable Company. The Lord wiped tears from their eyes, they realized what they missed. The final company is the 144, 000 Jews that is caught up to the 3rd heaves, right at mid trib. This is the grape company harvest. The door is shut in heaven because the celestial mystical body is now complete!!! Think of this: * There are 3 stories in Noah's ark. * There is a Barley, wheat, and grapes company * some sowed 100, some 60, some 30 * There is Sun glory saints, moon glory saints, and star glory saints * Peter was given the vision on the rooftop of a fitted sheet with all manner of beasts inside from the four corners of the earth from every nation and tongue....He saw it come down THRICE...3 TIMES!!! * You can see these 3 ranks in Acts 27 the swimmers swam to shore, some floated in on boards, and others came in still holding onto pieces of the ship...3 groups of people

[@bartwfielder]

How is there not a pre trib rapture if in 2 Thessalonians 2 Paul says the man of sin cannot be revealed until the restrainer is removed. Does this mean that the Holy Spirit abandones the church?

[@YoutubeChannel-vd6xn]

It’s the holy spirit working through the church. We will leave but the HS still needs to be here convincing people from sin. The holy spirit’s work through the church will leave in the rapture. But he is omnipresent so there is no problem for him to leave but stay here at the same time.

[@shawnebeal6863]

I have been studying this issue of rapture for weeks now. This is what I have concluded. God has not clearly stated this issue because he wants his church to be prepared either way. Preparation is mandatory As the time draws near we will be given clarity on this issue. Put as Christians we need to be prepared

[@Kman.]

"Prepared" in a general sense, sure...but how do you "prepare" for tribulation any differently? Are you called upon to squirrel up food rations, build a fall out shelter, load up on ammo? The fact is, we're told to look for his *COMING,* not any tribulation.

[@johnssmith4005]

How about you go and study the word AFTER because the Bible is crystal clear in Matthew 24:29-31 King James Version 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

[@uncommonscriptures9418]

Prepared to recognize the signs of the times, the mark of the beast that if you don’t have you can’t buy or sell, what does the mark look like who are the kings leading this, with the push for one world government and vaccine passports it seems it’s getting to that, but also prepared as when the master comes home from a long journey to find his servants working,, maybe be prepared for some food rations, I’m sure you see what’s happening, things are getting worse and they are starting to aim at Christians more and more, even if we are raptured we will probably face tribulations of some sort soon, hope not,, personally I don’t think we will be raptured but hard to say for sure

[@christopherperkins2395]

Raptures occurances in our bible 1- enoch 2- moses body 3- Elijah 4- jesus 5- saints 6- paul 7- pre trib believers. This one is under the most fierce attack from those who want to stay here to see if their faith is real for 3.5 more years, claiming that the church believers need tested, Today believers are being burnt to death, shot imprisoned, persecuted starved etc, others have their churches closed, hated by the world and the biggest test of all is prosperity and an aboundance of goods and entertainment, the true test for these Christian's is to let go of their wealth and give to the poor starving hurting missions of 3rd world Christians, or stand up for jesus in an atheist society. Right now we struggle to be a light in a world of darkness, to give us more darkness is not God's motive but to redeem us to himself, as a dear Father. If you want tested, sell all you have and go preach the gospel, I'll fund your rent and food till we are called up, now what more do you need? 8- 144,000 raptured 9- moses and Elijah raptured 10- gatherering to Jerusalem Hope this encourages you in this sinful world, Confort one another with these words A time of Jacobs trouble =1 week= 7 year's. A covenant is made with the Jews for 7 year's. At mid trib the devil is only persecuting the Jews God prepares a place of refuge for the Jews in the mountain's Daniel , Jeremiah and Matthew 24 and Revelation 6- 20 give us a clear description of what Daniel's 70th week is about. In the first 3.5 year's the jews accept the man of sin as their messiah Jesus taught this, saying, " John 5: 43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive" Matthew 24:28 is the great feast or battle of ARMAGEDDON 3 verses later is the gathering by the Angel's to Jerusalem. Now the jews hidding will want to know if its the true messiah since they have been deceived already jesus says when he comes it will be like LIGHTNING from east to west, everyone will know, and since the sky is dark from the moon not giving her light neither much light from the sun , every single person will see Jesus come easily. Of course this starts the 1000 year millennium, Confusion comes by reader's at vs 41 etc Jesus gives a brief timline of events but he fills in with some details afterwards, eg. If i told you were i lived new Zealand, America korea, america, new New Zealand, America, new Zealand, Australia, Philippines, Australia, new Zealand, then went back and explained that i flew to New Zealand 13 times from Australia, you might think i was an Australian.... no it just means i went on holidays to Australia then flew home to new Zealand... so yes adding details In Mathew 24 verse 41 Jesus explains some details, Two women are not buying flour from a shop, but in secrete or in hiding will be grinding wheat to suvive. They dont have a covid passport mark of the beast so they will have to make their own food, one believes in jesus the other doesn't but knows the mark of the beast is deadly and refuses to worship an image. The beginning of revelation seals. In the early days of the 70th week before the Jews flee to the mountain's at seal number 5 In revelation 6 we have all believers getting beheaded or killed, these believers ask God how long till they are avenged, Jesus answers saying just wait till your brethren are killed also there is no rapture for the believers or new converts but rather an exucution for all believers. Revelation 6 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. So yes all believers will be killed. Then who is this matthew 24 rapture for????? Angel's gather who to Jerusalem. Well only Jews are commanded to flee into hiding for 3.5 year's and they will gather food from fields and have to grind their own grain to survive and yes some will be scattered around the world in hiding, as they know worship of an image is idolatry . I'm guessing a few lost people will be hiding as well and join up with these Jews some believe some don't, So we have 99% of believers killed, a few remaining new believers in hiding will be gathered by Angel's to Jerusalem after the battle of ARMAGEDDON. Eagle's feast before the angels gather the elect from the ends if the world. Revelation 6 Seal 5 all believers are killed or about to be No loving God would murder all his children and bride for 3.5 or 7 year's then take the last starving survivors up to Jerusalem to celebtate victory over the world. Honestly your god may be Allah Jesus wouldn't do that Also picture illustrations are all though the bible. Daniel didnt go though the fiery furnace, Noah didnt go though the flood but was resuced, lot way resuced, moses at the red sea was rescued God always protects his children when he punishes the world. The world is being punished for the evil they have done, God gives them blood to drink etc

[@davecollum1758]

In my readings. If you read scriptures concerning the rapture in context, it completely points to pre-tribulation rapture.

[@ladonnadavis8710]

So when Thessalonians says we will be saved from the Wrath to come you're saying we're going to go through the Wrath? We will be caught up with him that's scripture. We will not experience the Wrath that's scripture. But you're saying we'll go through the tribulation. How can you have both? The answer is you can't. There's a section in Revelations where God told John to close the book and he will reveal it later. Is there not a section in the Bible where Jesus says there will be an explosion of knowledge? are we not led by the Holy Spirit to understand what's been put out in front of us? Can the devil be turned loose and do what's expected to be done during the tribulation, and from what I've read it's going to be hell on Earth, and the Holy Spirit stand back and watch? I don't believe so. The church will be out of the way. What happened in the very beginning? Satan approached Eve at the tree of knowledge. And look what's happening today. Schools closing, college kids I've been taught socialism is a good thing. And they're erasing history as fast as they can. Just pray the Holy Spirit will guide you. No one knows the day or the hour, but that coming like a thief in the night my opinion is it's to the non-believers. We'll all find out one of these days won't we

[@allensmith342]

I lean toward a pre-trib rapture and agree with everything you said except for your last statement. Read the parable of the ten virgins. Five of them had prepared for the wedding and five of them were unprepared but they ALL were sleeping and caught off guard when the call was made to meet the bridegroom. Likewise, believers and non-believers alike will be caught off guard but only the believers will be prepared.

[@bronzemv4440]

@@allensmith342 We will know the season, but not the day or hour. You can't take symbolic stuff in rev to interpret clear teaching in the gospel to pull it out of context. As far as Jesus not knowing the day or hour that word can mean to tell or proclaim.

[@jeandutoit7127]

There is a difference. We will go through the tribulation but not through His wrath. It's two different things.

[@ladonnadavis8710]

@@jeandutoit7127 explain please

[@jeandutoit7127]

@@ladonnadavis8710 It's interesting to discuss these things but none of us really knows how or when it is going to happen. I think too many people are obsessed with the end times and forget to focus on preaching and living the gospel. We need to spread His word as much as possible. The rest doesn't really matter. All that matters is our faith in Jesus.

[@darrellblanchard2362]

The reason people dislike these videos is they want their ears tickled. When you tell people they are going to face the anti Christ beast, they get mad as hell.

[@kenklein9228]

Yeah, many pre tribbers go bonkers about this.

[@physchir]

Not sure how Jesus could come as a thief in the night during the Time of Jacob's Trouble. Thieves try to be silent and don't announce their coming.

[@vanillacreem816]

He doesn’t come as a thief during the time of jacobs trouble, he comes a thief before that. During Jacobs trouble, every eye will see him…

[@darrellwhite7551]

He comes as a thief in the night to the unbelievers, Born again Christians will be watching and praying

[@j-life8502]

What and how do those things mix in your mind.. Yes a thief would try and be quiet... even in busy New York. Your saying what? If there is caos he can't come ? Cause its to loud outside lok.😆 no offensive this makes zero sense , he can come anytime he wants.

[@gloriathompson8475]

He tells us to occupy until He comes!

[@SpotterVideo]

The globalists at the "World Economic Forum" have said by 2030 you will own nothing, and you will be "happy". Meanwhile many in the modern Church claim we do not need to be concerned about global government. The truth is found below. What does an understanding of the New Covenant do to the Pretrib Rapture doctrine? Since the New Covenant is “everlasting” in Hebrews 13:20, how is the New Covenant Church age going to end seven years before the Second Coming of Christ? Why would anyone think God is going back to the Old Covenant system now made “obsolete” by the New Covenant in Hebrews 8:13? We are not come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18. We are come instead to the New Covenant church of Mount Zion and the blood in Hebrews 12:22-24. Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it. The Capitol "C" Church, as we use the word today, is not found in the entire Book of Revelation. Individual church bodies in ancient Asia Minor are found. In Revelation 12:11 we find those under the blood of the Lamb. A person cannot be under the blood of the Lamb and not be a part of the New Covenant Church of Jesus Christ. Verse 12 of this passage proves at least part of the tribulation period is the wrath of Satan upon the people of God. Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. "It may come as a surprise to most pre-Trib prophecy students that the post-Trib position (in its primitive form) is the oldest point of view." (The quotation above is from the book "Will You Escape The Tribulation? RAPTURE [Under Attack]", by Tim LaHaye, copyright 1998, Page 197.) Tim LaHaye was co-author of the “Left Behind” books and movies which have convinced millions of modern Christians that the Church age ends seven years before the Second Coming of Christ. Recently, Pastor Matt Furse of Mountain View Baptist Church in Custer, S.D. has written a book titled “Which One Is Right?’, which reveals the recent history of the pretrib rapture doctrine, and the fact it does not agree with what is written in the King James Bible. The gathering of the Church is described at the end of 1 Thess. Chapter 4, and the timing of the event is found in chapter 5. The word “But” in the first verse of chapter 5 connects the two chapters, and the words “we” and “sleep” in verse 10 of chapter 5 prove the two chapters are connected. The Greek words for “wrath” and “tribulation” are not the same word, as proven by the verse below. Rev 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. Watch the KZbin video “Pretribulation Paradox” by former pretrib believer skydiver626.

[@bluezy710]

I'll ask you the same question as I made to others. If pre-trib is a lie, why is it that every single one of the rapture dreams recorded show believers having a NORMAL day right before the rapture? None of them show believers under any kind of persecution prior to the rapture. Instead, all dreams describe them at home with the kids, riding a bike, walking at the park, driving on the freeway etc.

[@leahrachael2396]

Are you using supposed dreams of pre tribbers soaked in the dogma to defend pre trib? Not sure if you unintended that circular reasoning.

[@donhaddix3770]

o There are saints trib that are not church after the rapture. Revelation 3;10 does not say Stand, it says removed. ek Preposition NAS Word Usage - Total: 62 1. out of, from, by, away from Also the seven year wedding supper in heaven. There is revealing of the bride, the church, in heaven, at the end of the trib. Then is the second coming of Jesus to Israel to rule with an iron scepter and Armageddon, then the millennial kingdom. The martyrs from the trim rule alongside of Christ. They are not church. You change ek to mean in and through, not out of. It is not mythology, Revelation 3:10 and other verses say it is prophecy. There is no church with Christ at the second coming to the earth. There are angels. THE EXAMINATION OF THE ANALOGY (Jewish Wedding Custom) Earlier it was stated that in His promise in John 14, Jesus drew an analogy from Jewish marriage customs in biblical times. Now that the marriage customs have been considered, it is essential that the analogy be examined. In what ways was Jesus' promise analogous with Jewish marriage customs? In the examination of the analogy the first thing that should be noted is the fact that the Scriptures regard the Church to be the Bride of Christ (Eph. 5:22-23). In addition, just as the Jewish bridegroom took the initiative in marriage by leaving his father's house and traveling to the home of the prospective bride, so Jesus left his Father's house in heaven and traveled to earth, the home of His prospective Church, over 1900 years ago. In the same manner as the Jewish bridegroom came to the bride's home for the purpose of obtaining her through the establishment of a marriage covenant, so Jesus came to earth for the purpose of obtaining the Church through the establishment of a covenant. On the same night in which Jesus made His promise in John 14 He instituted communion. As He passed the cup of wine to His disciples, He said: "This cup is the new covenant in my blood." (NASV, 1 Cor. 11:25). This was His way of saying that He would establish a new covenant through the shedding of His blood on the cross. Parallel to the custom of the Jewish groom paying a price to purchase his bride, Jesus paid a price to purchase His Bride, the Church. The price that He paid was His own life blood. It was because of this purchase price that Paul wrote the following to members of the Church: "do you not know... that you are not your own? For you have been bought with a price; therefore glorify God in your body". (NASV, 1 Cor. 6:19-20). Analogous with the Jewish bride being declared to be sanctified or set apart exclusively for her groom once te marriage covenant was established, the Church has been declared to be sanctified or set apart exclusively for Christ (Eph. 5:25-27; 1 Cor. 1:2, 6:11; Heb. 10:10; 13:12). In the same way that a cup of wine served as a symbol of marriage covenant through which the Jewish groom obtained his bride, so the cup of communion serves as the symbol of the covenant through which Christ has obtained the Church (1 Cor. 11:25). Just as the Jewish groom left the home of his bride and returned to his father's house after the marriage covenant had been established, so Jesus returned to His Father's house in heaven after He had established the new covenant and risen from the dead (John 6:62; 20:17). In correspondence with the period of separation between the Jewish groom and bride, Christ has remained separate from the Church for over 1900 years. The Church is now living in that period of separation. Parallel to the custom of the Jewish groom preparing living accommodations for his bride in his father's house during the time of separation, Christ has been preparing living accommodations for the Church in His Father's house in heaven during His separation from His Bride (John 14:20). In the same manner as the Jewish groom came to take his bride to live with him at the end of the period of separation, so Christ will come to take the Church to live with Him at the end of His period of separation from the Church (John 14:3). Just as the taking of the Jewish bride was accomplished by a procession of the groom and male escorts from the groom's father's house to the home of the bride, so the taking of the Church will be accomplished by a procession of Christ and an angelic escort from Christ's Father's house in heaven to the home of the Church (1 Thess. 4:16). Analogous with the Jewish bride not knowing the exact time of the groom's coming for her the Church does not know the exact time of Christ's coming for her. In the same way that the Jewish groom's arrival was preceded by a shout, so Christ's arrival to take the Church will be preceded by a shout (1 Thess. 4:16). Similar to the Jewish bride's return with the groom to his father' house after her departure from her home, the Church will return with Christ to His Father's house in heaven after she is snatched from the earth to meet Him in the air (1 Thess. 4:17; John 14:2-3). In the same manner as the Jewish wedding party found wedding guests assembled in the groom's father's house when they arrived, so Christ and the Church will find the souls of old Testament saints assembled in heaven when they arrive. These souls will serve as the wedding guests. Parallel to the custom of the Jewish groom and bride entering into physical union after their arrival at the groom's father's house, thereby consummating the marriage that had been covenanted earlier, Christ and the Church will experience spiritual union after their arrival at His Father's house in heaven, thereby consummating their relationship that had been covenanted earlier. In correspondence with the Jewish bride remaining hidden in the bridal chamber for a period of seven days after arrival at the groom's father's house, the Church will remain hidden for a period of seven after arrival at Christ's Father's house in heaven. While the seven year Tribulation Period is taking place on the earth, the Church will be in heaven totally hidden from the sight of those living on the earth. Just as the Jewish groom brought his bride out of the bridal chamber at the conclusion of the seven days with her veil removed, so that all could see who his bride was, so Christ will bring the Church out of heaven in His Second Coming at the conclusion of the seven year Tribulation Period in full view of all who are alive, so that all can see who the true Church is (Col. 3:4). Written by, Dr. Renald Showers, Chairman of the Pastoral Studies Dept. Philadelphia College of Bible (year unknown) Distributed by, The Friends of Israel Gospel Ministry, Inc., W. Collingswood, N.J. "Therefore, be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming. Matt 24:42 For this reason you be ready too; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will! Thief in the night not the second coming. All I see. The rapture is thief in the night.

[@teamelectroteck]

I know the pre tribulation rapture sounds comforting, but it's just not in the word of God. The bible tells the exact time when the rapture takes place, and it takes place after the tribulation. Matthew 24:29-31 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Revelation 8:12-13 The fourth angel blew his trumpet, and a third of the sun was struck, and a third of the moon, and a third of the stars, so that a third of their light might be darkened, and a third of the day might be kept from shining, and likewise a third of the night. Then I looked, and I heard an eagle crying with a loud voice as it flew directly overhead, “Woe, woe, woe to those who dwell on the earth, at the blasts of the other trumpets that the three angels are about to blow!” 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

[@herbbearingseed]

The resurrection is at the last day not a few days or years before the last day.

[@teamelectroteck]

@@herbbearingseed You can see that the darkening of the sun and of the moon and falling of the stars is happening during the 4th trumpet of God, and when Jesus comes in the clouds he is coming with a shout, a sound of a trumpet of God and the voice of the archangel, and you can see that also happening in revelation during the 4th trumpet. Matthew 24:29-31 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Revelation 8:12-13 The fourth angel blew his trumpet, and a third of the sun was struck, and a third of the moon, and a third of the stars, so that a third of their light might be darkened, and a third of the day might be kept from shining, and likewise a third of the night. Then I looked, and I heard an eagle crying with a loud voice 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God.

[@teamelectroteck]

@@herbbearingseed look carefully at mathew 24:29 it saying after the tribulation of those days, it's not saying after the tribulation, it's adding those days to show that the tribulation is still going on. After the 4th trumpet things are going crazy and God will rapture his elect.

[@herbbearingseed]

@@teamelectroteck Look carefully at :21

[@herbbearingseed]

@@teamelectroteck Resurrection is at the last day. You are inserting opinions. You loose. Jesus wins Immediately after the tribulation.

[@gwdag1153]

You know I’m a pre triber, but I love all my brothers and sisters, difference of opinion is great as we all know where we are going anyways. praise The good Lord. Bless you all 👍

[@KallyKafritsas]

@vax, tests = mark of beast 8 BEWARE, this is a demonic spirit

[@dougsmith6346]

@vax, tests = mark of beast 8 Chapter and verse please.

[@dougsmith6346]

@@KallyKafritsas chapter and verse please

[@KallyKafritsas]

@Lightstone God's written word says it

[@KC-fb8ql]

@vax, I bet everyone looks forward to seeing you at family gatherings and around the watercooler....

[@ThePettiestOfficer_Juan117]

Cool. Now have Dr. Andy Woods on to debunk Craig Keener.

[@markc4176]

Enoch is the example, being taken out before the pouring out of God’s wrath on the earth. What’s their answer to that?

[@jw2442]

@@markc4176 How do you extrapolate that to a general pre-trib rapture of the entire church?

[@wlonsdale1]

@@jw2442 Andy Woods does a good job of debunking these things

[@biblegeekmanonamission7159]

The WRATH of God is not the same as TRIBULATION.

[@888WulfDog888]

@@biblegeekmanonamission7159 yes this is what trips people up, they don't search the scriptures but repeat catch phrases they've heard from others. That is not how someone studies to show themselves approved before God! In the last days there is an outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the earth:, "And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams": Acts 2:17 This outpouring is directly tied into the "spirit of understanding" one of the seven branches of the Spirit. People need to receive the outpouring and take it to the book of revelation and cross reference the prophets and the law. Study to shew thyself approved!

[@kirkgould3306]

Sorry, I believe after reading my Bible and watching pastor Jimmy Evans and pastor Robert breaker that it's a pre tribulation rapture, Jesus is not going to leave us here during the tribulation period.

[@kenklein9228]

Jimmy and Robert are off on this.

[@lindamckague2251]

When Jesus came the Church was still a mystery & not even known until after he died on the cross. Why does no one talk of Rev C 3 V 10 why is this skipped over & what about the wrath of the lamb in C 6.

[@beyenotdeceived5698]

False. 1 Cor.15:51-52 was revealed by JESUS CHRIST to a multitude at Laxaris' resurrection: **John 11:25-*26** Paul was revealed the Mystery, *"by THE PREACHING of Jesus Christ", Rom.16:*25-26* I advise you to read a BIBLE and stop listening to KZbin teachers with zero accountability.

[@beyenotdeceived5698]

411-Church of Philadelphia were **MARTYRED** Rev.3:10 was not written TO you as YOU are not the Church of Phildelphia.

[@lavieenrose5954]

Matt 16:4 “..,thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it..”

[@beyenotdeceived5698]

@@lavieenrose5954 Exactly right, Sis !!! The APOSTLES are the Foundations of the Church and the foundation stones of the Holy City as well as in 1 Cor.15:*5 part of the Gospel that these people habitually omit from 1 Cor.15:1-4.

[@KallyKafritsas]

Linda, because they oppose the word of God, and serve the devil. There are NO views, only the true word of God. In Revelation 4and 5, we see a door open in Heaven (same door the Wise virgins enter) we hear a voice that sounds like a TRUMPET saying, 'Come up hither' in a twinkling of an eye, we are in Heaven. You NEVER hear mention of the church on earth again. Now we see the REDEEMED bride Around the throne, caught up out of EVERY tongue, kindred, tribe, nation, and people, singing a New Song (Only the Redeemed know Rev.14:3) We are the FIRSTFRUITS (Rev. 14:4, These are those who were REDEEMED among men, the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. ) We are casting are crowns, waiting for Jesus to begin opening the First seal BEFORE the Tribulation begins. Later in chapter 6, we see those Under the throne, the Martyred , Beheaded, coming out of Great Tribulation. The 7 year Tribulation is the time of JACOB'S TROUBLE (Israel)

[@amybritt1363]

Right ! Don't be taken! Stay in the field working ! Stay in the context of the scripture !

[@KallyKafritsas]

Amy, you serve your father the devil

[@marymcmullen5644]

It does refer to saints, often.

[@jasonissel217]

I agree with you, that verse when Jesus says about in the days of Noah people were being taken is not talking about a rapture. I argue with other pre-tribs all the time, that verse doesn't mean what they claim it does.

[@jenniferthaxton8136]

Not rapture, but saved from the wrath of God so why wouldn't God's people (the church) be saved from His wrath with the rapture?

[@dougsmith6346]

@@jenniferthaxton8136 no one is saying that believers won’t witness God’s wrath. They will be protected from it.

[@Mikeman07825]

@@dougsmith6346 to the church of Philadelphia - I will keep you FROM not keep you 'through'...

[@dougsmith6346]

@@Mikeman07825 the church in Philladelphia went through a time of great trial in the 2nd century , including martyrdom, and they endured. This verse doesn’t say that trials will not happen nor that the church won’t endure or witness great trials around them. To say otherwise is to contradict the clear teaching of Scripture. Why must this phrase be a specific reference to the Great Tribulation and not to trials in general? Context doesn’t require that. The tribulation is not God’s judgement. They will survive God’s judgement though when He returns.

[@Mikeman07825]

@@dougsmith6346 "...Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth..." - the hour, is a specific time - not through time in general - peace.

[@allisongasparini7602]

So much division and disappointment is coming. Never heard of pre trib rapture until recently. Never taught before 1830. Pray and be prepared to stand in the midst of the fire with Jesus. He will protect many of us but many saints will lose their heads too. I'm ready to die for my belief in him and love for him.

[@kileebuchanan8316]

I watched this because i dont have a view yet on when we will be raptured. I do have to say upon watching this, I believe i can understand the pre tribulation view a little better. I seem to understand it to be making more sense that we are taken when Christ cuts the tribulation short for the sake of the elect. (Whenever that is)

[@luvdady]

Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. so how is the words ""immediately following"" not knowing when Jesus will return? how is anything else pertaining as a thief in the night? But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

[@markanthony3275]

You can understand who the "elect " are when you look at all the specifically Jewish references in Mathew ch 24. Those references are ...the abomination of desolation (found in Daniel)...the temple...the sabbath...the rooftops...the Judean wilderness...and the fig tree ( remember Jesus cursing the fig tree because he didn't find fruit on it? That's a metaphor for not finding the fruit of righteousness in his people Israel). After seeing the Jewish references, and knowing that Jesus was talking to his Jewish disciples about Jewish things, you can easily understand that the "elect' in Mathew 24 refer to the nation of Israel...not to Christians. Now take a look at the parallel passage in Luke ch 21 (34-36) what did Jesus say "pray that you might escape these things and be found worthy to stand before the Son of Man".

[@perfectpeace00]

1 timothy 2:10, titus 1:1, romans 8:33, romans 11:7 uses "elect" to refer to the church as it does in Matthew. To say otherwise just shows you are overlooking passages and verses that don't conform with your theology.

[@taralothoni2693]

🧐 Hoping for pre-trib but feel it’s going to be mid-trib. But that’s just what I believe. Revelation is such a deep and confusing book to unpack and I am in no way learned enough. Very interesting webcast.

[@amybritt1363]

Ask God to show you the truth with complete understanding.

[@jayrodriguez84]

It is after the 6th seal at the 7th trumpet. Not mid trib.

[@amybritt1363]

@@jayrodriguez84 Jesus comes at the 7th seal, the 7th vial, and the 7th trump.

[@jayrodriguez84]

@@amybritt1363 Wrong. The Bible never says He comes for the saints at the 7th seal. Or the 7th bowl judgment. The gathering happens at the last trumpet which is the 7th when the kingdom is proclaimed. The 7th seal is the prelude for the 7 trumpets to begin. When He opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour. So the seven angels who had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound. Revelation 8:1‭, ‬6 NKJV

[@amybritt1363]

@@jayrodriguez84 kind of what I meant. Nothing as far as seals, vials ,or trumps comes after that now does it ? 8 is the number of new beginnings or the Lords day, otherwise know as the millennium. But hey I understand what you are getting at.

[@josephsdream8234]

The real question is why go out of your way to disprove or to debunk the pre-trib rapture, I've noticed that everybody who bashes the pre-trib rapture has a bad Spirit about them, it is of my personal opinion that I believe these are the mockers and scoffers spoken of by the Apostle Peter, in 2 Peter 3:3!

[@yllas123]

What if the 7 years of tribulation is almost over now? There have been trumpet sounds in the sky all over the world. Blood moons. Blood rivers. Earthquakes. Euphrates river drying up.famons. why do we think its going to be so extreme? How can we not be in the tri ulation allready when the biblecsays these things will happen in tribulation? Why would this generation tribulation be more extreme than others?