Dispute Over the Worth of Trump's Mar-a-lago

Taken from JRE #2043 w/Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin from Triggernometry:
open.spotify.com/episode/1JHb...

[@Cyber_Nomad01]

Judges should be thrown out if they get political. Judges should be based in pure fact.

[@_Tommmmmm_]

They let the power that comes with the position get to their head.

[@admiller67]

It's a fact that the Palm Beach Assessor put the value at 18 million.

[@ItsBluecheeseWithWingsOrGo_]

hope you feel the same way about the supreme court lol

[@ItsBluecheeseWithWingsOrGo_]

He based the valuation on Palm Beach Counties assessors valuation between 2011-2021, so that's pretty factual

[@nealorr5086]

@@admiller67 It's also a fact that banks don't use Assessor's property values when reviewing loans. "I am as dumb as the judge" isn't the winning argument you think it is.

[@JayWallenFishing]

Eric Trump had a good line....he said $18 Million?!...."Which Tennis Court?"

[@LordFirestaff]

LOL!

[@tamaracardon2562]

😂nice..

[@mgers75]

They should volunteer to pay back taxes with interest on the real value of marge largo then if they dont like the figures the DA used to stick it to this fraudster

[@LordFirestaff]

@@mgers75 The "real value" is for the seller to determine but may not be what he gets for it during a sell. The city assesses the tax liability which is beyond the property owner's control. There are no backed taxes because he paid what the city billed him for. Even so, if the city miscalculated the taxes, that is on them in Florida, and they can't charge him for back taxes on that. They can correct their mistake for future tax liability.

[@mgers75]

@@LordFirestaff How did Trump receive such a favorable Tax Assessment? City jus dont turn down money. Did Trump grease palms?

[@cpesq.5884]

Imagine if a real estate broker was hired to sell the property and listed it for 18 million dollars. They would be ridiculed and fired immediately

[@davidskipton690]

Right, because realtors don't use the $18 million dollar TAX ASSESSMENT from over 10 years ago, they use the current market value. Which is not what the court reported was in the documentation. They pulled that number off of his records. They didn't just make it up.

[@onequickthing8950]

It's a zoning issue. Trump had the property very narrowly zoned because he got a tax credit, then lied about the zoning when he appraised it. If you bought that property you wouldn't be able to do anything with it. You couldn't log it, you couldn't mine it, you couldn't build houses on it. The land is useless for anything but entertainment venues.

[@georgeschnakenberg7808]

​@@hopefulbutworrieddoesn't maralogo make 25 million dollars every year? How is it only worth 18 million? 😂😂

[@georgeschnakenberg7808]

@@hopefulbutworried an evaluation of what? Not market value but tax liability. You ever buy a car? Bet 1000 cash you got a loan for more than it was worth.

[@RiverRat6996]

@@hopefulbutworriedyour clearly biased in this whole situation

[@evelynglez6243]

Trump bought MAL in 1985 for 5 million dollars. Florida has a max cap of 3% on assessments per year. If you played that max out over that time period, it would come to approximately 25 million dollars for property TAX PURPOSES. It has nothing to do with the true value, or even a private appraisal you would use to describe an asset for personal/business purposes. The State of Florida CANNOT exceed 3% per year, which means it could NEVER capture actual value. Assessment value for tax purposes are completely different then actual Market value.

[@brianhentz6957]

Either way the judge is a ieing sack of sh** He's totally biased

[@meeeghan]

Exactly! The house I live in was purchased for more than 200,000 but the tax’s were assessed at 45,000 the year before we purchased it. SMH 🤦‍♀️

[@hollybishop484]

Lol exactly!!. Plus some places just do a drive by and estimate based on the outside. My mom's house was valued at 3x it's appraisal value because the outside was so beautiful but the inside was under construction. She invited them in and they changed it. We all know that if you want to pay less taxes you make the outside look worse than the inside. 😉

[@mattcollins7076]

The 3% cap is if it is his primary residence, which it was not until after he left office in 2021

[@TAshifter88]

STOP IT, STOP IT, ORANGE MAN BAD, PERIOD!! 😂

[@Hailme75]

The DA in this case calls him an illegitimate president. That’s how laughable it is

[@sthubbins4038]

Seriously. He doesn’t know that Trump is an ex-President?

[@the_wudarian]

golfed 80% of the time he sat in the oval. dude basically wasnt

[@nealorr5086]

@@the_wudarian Biden campaigned from his basement watching kiddie po-rn, and you voted for him (probably from your basement watching kiddie po-rn).

[@froniccruxis1049]

@@the_wudarian apparently Biden has already broken the record for vacations at least a year ago. Does it matter anymore? At least Trump can easily say it was a working vacation just by the fact that he had foreign dignitaries with him most of the time he golfed. Also golfing isn't an all day event.

[@ninjanik2095]

Trump wants to kill Gen. Mark Milley. What were you snowflaking about?

[@rugger104]

No bank lends based off of what a property owner states their property is worth 😂 they use their own appraisal.

[@ASDeckard]

Holy shit, the paperwork is public. That is exactly what they did. And the suit is on behalf of the government for all the back tax they are owed, because Trump also claimed the properties were almost worthless when he paid property tax every year. He's either lying to the banks, or the state. Either way he owes someone a huge amount of money. He keeps insisting they're worth the higher amount, which is literally him openly admitting to lying on his property taxes for decades.

[@cjgooding4512]

Exactly something not adding up here

[@user-bg7km4ij7f]

They also didn’t file a complaint….

[@fleafly70]

You you think the bank would pay 500 dollars to go out and do a appraisal at Mira Lago, lol

[@JackCarsonite]

​@@fleafly70that's why it's just a judges horrible opinion. It's lunacy to believe any of this Dem BS.

[@cd241]

Banks don't just hand out huge loans for a property without sending an independent person to appraise it for them. It is absolutely stupid to think trump just writes down whatever number he wants and the banks just run with it.

[@foundingfather5100]

100%! Banks lend on appraised value only, which for this home was likely several appraisal reports. Assessor’s also value the home for taxation purposes, and they don’t go on the owner’s estimate either. They should make an example out of that judge. The dude looks like “Doc” from Back to the Future. You know he’s nuts.

[@Zaviex]

Yes but that's not what this is about. The 18 million wasn't invented, Trump had the property appraised in 2011 for 18 million and in the years since has paid property taxes on the development at a value of 18 million to 28 million. So the Judge looked at the discrepancy between the value in Florida, 18 million and the loan value 450 million and said the legal value is the one he paid taxes on so 18 million. That is not stupid at all, its a consequence of seeking hilariously low values for taxes and normal values for loans

[@williamlevy1981]

​@Zaviex The COUNTY assigned a property tax value of 18 million. They do this to all properties. The person owning it doesn't ask or get a say in the assessed tax value. What the value of the square footage/location AND what it earns him by being a club is how it's MARKET VALUE is assessed. It's a commercial property. It brings in REVENUE.

[@cd241]

@@Zaviex Yeah, you didn't read anything I said, if he got a loan, someone comes out to appraise it themselves, and they determine the loan size on that appraisal. County assessors do their own appraisal to determine property taxes, also not trump again lol

[@foundingfather5100]

@@Zaviex I can only assume you don’t own real estate, since everyone who does knows the county or township assesses value and bases the real estate tax on that; usually through mass appraisals and not individual homes. An owner has zero to do with value estimates of their own property for any purpose. If that were the case, everyone would value high for a loan and low for taxes. And let’s not forget about home owners insurance. They value the home too based on cost to rebuild. To repeat, what anyone thinks their house is worth is valuable only in their own mind.

[@imashaaark]

The thing is, the bank would have done their own appraisal during the verification process. For loans of that amount, they would have a team working on it. The fact that Trump got the loan means he passed the bank's own verification process.

[@markislivingdeliberately]

Exactly. They know he’s inflating or deflating to help himself. They know they’re inflating or deflating to help themselves, then they iron it out and meet somewhere in the middle. The government doesn’t need to be involved.

[@CiGambino]

The issue is the taxes he's paying on these assets. He's making filings and fighting to depreciate the same properties. The government doesn't care about the bank, they care about the tax dollars he doged. @@markislivingdeliberately

[@Wi_Gong_Dye]

Solid point. They also only give a loan based on a percentage of the value of the property (70-80%). Ive never heard of a bank giving a loan based on the entire value of the property.

[@anamericanprayer1967]

“Elementary, my dear Watson.” The simplicity of the situation, has been lost on politics.

[@chriswilson_dc]

Lĺ Lllllllll

[@wyattgouldthorpe1880]

The problem with the entire rationale the judge has is it's the lender's responsibility to do an appraisal if Trump is looking for a secured loan. No bank is going to accept the owner's word on an appraisal. None of the lenders claim they were defrauded, and the loans are not in default. Most of them are already paid in full.

[@prdr4913]

paid in full.. lmao. Yeah sure, name that all the companies that went bankrupt, because trump never said people in full, especially loans and work.

[@swickens930]

​@@prdr4913Going bankrupt isn't fraud lol... fraud is when you get a loan knowing you can't pay it back then you steal the money, or you use the money for something other than what it was intended for. Trying to run a business and failing, isn't fraud. This happens all the time, it's the whole reason why bankruptcy exists.

[@joannewilson6577]

The ruling was not based solely on Mar-a-Lago. The NY judge found multiple instances of Trump and his adult sons having inflated the value of properties. For instance, Engoron found that Trump inflated the value of properties at 40 Wall Street and the Seven Springs Estate in Westchester County, NY as well as a golf course in Aberdeen, Scotland. Notably, Engoron found Trump inflated the size of his triplex apartment at Trump Tower by three times, causing an overvaluation of between $114 million and $207 million. “A discrepancy of this order of magnitude, by a real estate developer sizing up his own living space of decades, can only be considered fraud,” Engoron wrote. Cintron, the Harrington Ocko & Monk partner, doesn’t think the Mar-a-Lago valuation controversy moves the needle on the question of whether Trump committed fraud. “There is enough of a pattern of this practice that he’s engaged with in respect to his properties to support Judge Engoron’s conclusions that there was an intent to defraud,” Cintron said.

[@Maxrepfitgm]

622 REAL ESTATE CASES As a property manager, Trump has been sued by tenants and investors alike. He’s faced disputes over his properties from New York City to Florida to Chicago, including fights over unpaid rent or lease terms. He’s also settled claims by “testers” that travel the nation checking hotels for compliance with the American with Disabilities Act. REAL ESTATE LAWSUIT'S OUTCOMES PLAINTIFF 153 DEFENDANT 469

[@reganderson9721]

​@@joannewilson6577They will leave out these facts...it's a pattern of behavior

[@triggerpod]

Thanks for having Francis and Konstantin on the podcast!

[@magnacarta9364]

Why, they are Trump haters.

[@SecretMarsupial]

An excellent unexpected crossover!

[@440-fishermandrock8]

Who

[@garthmanuel5701]

this new one? or one from roughly a year ago

[@hoisin75]

Ha, Francis blazing with that fat blunt

[@phredphlintstone6455]

If that judge is right, the government owes trump a pretty big refund

[@jasonlongton1876]

Uh no, because Trump himself argued the ASSESSED value of Mar-a-Lago to be less than $26 million in 2020. Trump is intentionally conflating ASSESSED value with MARKET value, so as to make it look as though he dunked on the judge. To put it another way, we all watched Trump play fast and loose with real estate terms and values to make himself look better, in a fraud case where he is accused of playing fast and loose with real estate terms and values to make himself look better. And you think he's in the clear? Wow!

[@mrthegrievous]

Please don't act surprised, when orange man will have to pay maybe more than 500 million USD in fines to the state for his real estate valuation crimes at the end. You won't understand why he needs to pay, and that's not a problem, but please don't be surprised. Anyway Papa Rogan was ABSOLUTELY INSANE in this clip :D. The guy admits that he knows jackshit about real estate, but either way, he spreads his IGNORANCE and MISINFORMATION just because it feels good to be dumb and irresponsible :D. First of all, that property has NUMEROUS RESTRICTIONS ON IT, so it can't even have a 100 mill. value. Secondly: Papa Trump AGREED to a 27 million appraisal value in 2020, because it was wonderful to pay jackshit in taxes. That's the scheme. But the guy will pay BIGLY after the trial ends :D!!! I would think the appropriate fine should be around 500-600 million USD, but we will see. It will be also interesting to see Trump become a millionaire (from a billionaire) :D. He will have to liquidate all of his NY businesses, towers and real estates at depressed prices. If the guy is worth 2.5 bill, he sells his properties at 1.2, he pays the 500 mill fine, then he will get to around a worth of 700 mill. If he also has to pay back the 250 mill. that he stole from the MAGA cultists with the election lies, then he will arrive to 500. Let's substract another 100 for legal fees and we will get back to the magical 400 that he got from his father 40 years ago :D. If this "genius" had put that amount in the SPX, he would have a 20 billion USD wealth today. This orange American Hitler is RIDICULOUS.

[@matthenry3569]

They need to abolish Judicial and Prosecutorial immunity, when it's obvious that they are corrupt or idiots, then they should be held accountable.

[@yonikki]

I disagree even though I get your point. We can't allow the current political environment to persuade our judicial establishment. We just have BAD judges installed in this wonky system ... judges should remain unbiased.

[@stevegottenbass]

Yes, get rid of JUDGE CANNON

[@onequickthing8950]

But they got him dead to rights, though. The number he wrote on documents were lies. He claimed that the square footage of his nyc apartment was three times the size it really was. They also have the documents his accountants created, and when they went into trumps office they were one thing, and when they left they were different. So he can't even claim his accountants screwed him.

[@RalphEllis]

For banking purposes the land value of Mar a Lago is irrelevant. It is a business, and you value it as a business. As a business, it could easily be valued at a billion. R

[@onequickthing8950]

@@RalphEllis No when it's collateral on a loan, for insurance coverage of property taxes. Which is what the case is about.

[@jeannesullivan5605]

Banks require appraisals before approving mortgages. They never base it on the applicant's opinion. Gosh, this used to be common knowledge, even if you never purchased real estate.

[@sirdinkus6537]

When you have TDS, "logic" is just a word.

[@coldbloodedclowns6797]

All this proves is that the avg person is dumb. You are correct an appraisal was done. The judge is basing the 18mill on tax appraisals which are never market value

[@JwadeProductions7]

The judge based it what trump valued it at in his taxes…this is trumps own doing…relax Jeanna Sullivan

[@alastairthegreat2887]

​@@JwadeProductions7The tax value isn't determined by Trump, so your statement is false.

[@dv8322]

Statements of financial condition i.e. balance sheets are used as part of the process to get loans from financial institutions. The problem is Trump submits one statement of financial condition to a financial institution overvaluing the property while sending another to the tax assessor depreciating its value. That is fraud.

[@arkadihughes4893]

The importance of politics and economics cannot be overstated, yet those 2 subjects are completely avoided in the education system.

[@Scroll_Lock]

Avoided? Communism is being pushed heavily in the education system.

[@brucewayne99999]

economics, accounting, finance.... facts, numbers, statistics, science... the powers that be wants good obedient sheep and customers they can drink blood from.

[@adoe2305]

No! The government is not our daddy. It's the parents' responsibility. Stop being lazy and teach your kids!

[@adoe2305]

The U.S political system is a hot dumpster fire. The economy is trash. Even our education system is complete garbage. Do not teach my kids how to fail. And force me to pay for it.

[@ww3662]

How are these avoided in the education system? Political science and economics are very common courses. What are you talking about?

[@tsenif]

I love it when you have these two guys on. I love their Podcast, but it's only an hour long, usually.

[@sylviafisher9615]

They don’t even know what they are talking about.

[@tsenif]

@@sylviafisher9615 LOL?

[@scottclapperton2728]

😂 - great bit

[@shocxxxx]

@@sylviafisher9615 dont bother the guys sounds like a nut hugger you wont get anywhere

[@bullballsallday]

@@sylviafisher9615 they know a hell of a lot more than you.

[@stever5544]

Like a bank is gonna take someone’s word at how much a property is worth without doing any of their own research 😂

[@alexcruz7719]

Have you ever heard the term " traffic of influence"? No wonder why you MAGA boys. are so gullible.

[@n2omike]

Exactly. The bank made the loan. The bank was paid back in full with interest. Both the bank and Trump came out ahead. No victims here. Plus, the person pressing charges on Trump ran her election with the promise she would go after Trump. Seems about as unethical as you can get. You'd think this would not be allowed. The claim the justice system is being politically weaponized is blatantly obvious. The world has gone insane.

[@davidskipton690]

The bank isn't going to go measure the square footage in your house, they're going to look at whatever paperwork they're given, then determine a valuation based off of that.

[@MilkyWayGalaxyy]

You are so nieve. There are different rules for the rich and famous and peasants like us! Like how all of those US banks did business with drug dealers to launder their money 💰 🤑 And all of those banks overseas help millionaires evade US taxes. Yeah, banks always do things by the book😂 Same reason why a Billionaire like Trump paid ZERO DOLLARS IN TAXES FOR OVER 10 YEARS and then paid only 750 bucks for the year! 16-year-olds working at taco bell get more taxes taken out of their paychecks than that a year! The super rich have ivy league educated tax attorneys, accountants and also know CEOs and chairman's and presidents of these same companies, banks and countries...and you actually believe they have to go through the same rules as we do??? Smh. So nieve.

[@jessefay4984]

​@@davidskipton690you don't know what youre talking about.

[@chaselaird7314]

The best part of this is that the lenders said they got paid back with interest and have no issues with anything yet they still push the case

[@silkyb-love]

Trump gets his money from Deutsche Bank...one of the most fined and corrupt lenders in the world.

[@bran1886]

The DA literally ran on a campaign to get Trump.

[@joannewilson6577]

The remarkably troubled recent history of Deutsche Bank, its past money-laundering woes - and the bank’s striking relationship with Trump - are the subjects of this week’s episode. The German bank loaned a cumulative total of around $2.5 billion to Trump projects over the past two decades, and the bank continued writing him nine-figure checks even after he defaulted on a $640 million obligation and sued the bank, blaming it for his failure to pay back the debt. The filings were made in response to a highly unusual move by lawyers for Trump, his family and his company seeking to quash congressional subpoenas issued to Deutsche Bank and Capital One, a second institution he banked with.

[@Chooseyouruniquehandlebya]

Its between trump corporation and its lenders (banks) end of story. Banks are not complaining. Ive never heard of district attorney’s creating cases of people overvalued assets to get loans and banks not complaining. Its pretty obvious its politically motivated. If you want to get him get him on some real crimes rhey probably comitted. Too bad the entire federal government already tried for 2 years during russiagate and found nothing…

[@kentvonmiddledorm677]

It doesnt matter to New York whether the banks got hurt or not. Persistent fraud. He got his greedy hands on money that he was not entitled to. That prevented other potential people, like other Americans, from getting loans. It’s a big Ponzi scheme that the judge has already ruled on. Damages are all that’s left to be decided.

[@norcalpacific]

Companies do the same thing backwards but to dodge taxes. Apple argued a $384 million building it owned in Cupertino, Calif., where it is headquartered, was only worth $200 instead of the $1 billion the tax assessor's office said it was worth. Apple also has appealed valuations with 489 open cases dating back to 2004, disputing $8.5 billion in property value. Buildings that cost tens of millions to build they value at a couple hundred dollars.

[@Bghjssjald233]

What Trump did is 100% fraud and I'm extremely right wing. Inflating assets to take personal loans out on those inflated assets is fraud.

[@HughRGlen]

Not only this but tax assessors are just as incentivized to lie up as owners are to lie down.

[@Joaopereira-dh3dw]

​@@HughRGleneverything has to your way I guess

[@kevinkerr9310]

We do it selling a car. If we're doing it right we help the buyer avoid tax because fuck those guys.

[@joelborgula3226]

Ahh America at its finest

[@Samo_Wings]

What’s crazy is Joe doesn’t think that John Dutton’s house in the show Yellowstone is “balling out”. That place is freakin incredible.

[@WayStedYou]

Bruh that is a crazy house

[@LeoDunsonMinistries]

Joe Rogan got crazy money lol. They said his studio that they are in right now. Is bigger than Walmart. Let that sink in

[@LJ-MMA]

Joe would use Duttons house for his personal gym aha he's got more dough than dominoes

[@Cayden4204]

The banks would never loan money without doing their own appraisal

[@kentcarmack5879]

The bank was paid back on time and with interest. The bank also has appraisers. the only possible victim is the bank. This shit is crazy beyond belief

[@LordFirestaff]

Correct. If the bank is unwilling to file charges, there is no case.

[@silkyb-love]

@@LordFirestaff whose watching out for taxpayers and the financial markets? If everyone did what Trump did, it'd be a meltdown

[@LordFirestaff]

@@silkyb-love How? How did his loan negatively affect you? It was a private transaction that had no bearing on your livelihood.

[@ASDeckard]

There were 88 properties listed in the case, and he owes enormous amounts still on most of them. You did read the case, right?

[@miramichi30]

@@silkyb-love As if people don't try to inflate the value of their assets all the time to get loans. But those poor little bankers are so naive they just believe anything someone tells them. They don't even bother to employ appraisers and real estate experts because they are so trusting.

[@RobRochon]

If a loans officer granted a loan without doing their own appraisal he would get fired, thrown out of the building and then would likely have a police detective on his ass trying to figure out how he profited from such a transaction.

[@joannewilson6577]

The remarkably troubled recent history of Deutsche Bank, its past money-laundering woes - and the bank’s striking relationship with Trump - are the subjects of this week’s episode. The German bank loaned a cumulative total of around $2.5 billion to Trump projects over the past two decades, and the bank continued writing him nine-figure checks even after he defaulted on a $640 million obligation and sued the bank, blaming it for his failure to pay back the debt. The filings were made in response to a highly unusual move by lawyers for Trump, his family and his company seeking to quash congressional subpoenas issued to Deutsche Bank and Capital One, a second institution he banked with.

[@RobRochon]

@@joannewilson6577 And yet other financial institutions still don't have any problems lending Trump money? Why is that? Maybe you don't understand what you think you claim to understand.

[@CBDguitar]

@@RobRochon Many? Private party loans don't count. After Trump went bankrupt 6 times, the majority of corporate lenders diminished significantly. Eric and Don Jr both proudly and separately said that a good deal of their financial activity comes from Russia. That was years ago.

[@kurtiousmaximus7130]

WTF does a judge have to do with pushing an agenda that interferes with a citizen and a bank? Not even police were involved.

[@ektran4205]

is what people are willing to pay for it

[@stevegottenbass]

Mar-a-lago is NOT a house - it is NOT zoned to be a house Mar-a-lago is zoned as a commercial property - the tax assessment is $18m-$27m

[@iambergeson]

Taxable value and market value are not the same thing, especially if it has been a long time since the property traded hands. They’re often not in the same universe. And commercial property gets valued based on the income it generates. I’ve seen a lot of comments saying it brings in $15m/year….If that is a net number, and you assume a “cap rate” of 3% (probably conservative for that area - may be even lower) the value would be $500m

[@sheril8739]

Be realistic…commercial property that size in that area would be larger than 60 million

[@robertpierpont2262]

@@sheril8739 not when it can't be changed or altered, it is what it is & thats all it ever can be so its a very limited commercial property which lowers its value

[@CrispyCars]

​@@robertpierpont2262who's saying it can't?

[@robertpierpont2262]

@@CrispyCars you better look into it since you seem to not know. Its nearly 100 years old, its an historic property. Ever watched shows like Zombie house flipping which is in florida? They run from anything historic because the rules & regulations on those properties are insane!

[@HostileTakeover555]

Wow - the Trig guys are back on already!? Awesome!

[@pedelibero]

Firstly, that's not the judge's valuation. The valuation of Mar-a-Lago came from the Palm Beach County Assessor who appraised the market value of Mar-a-Lago at between $18 million and $27.6 million. However, that's an appraisal value and should never have been used to estimate it's market value. Secondly, it's not a house or a single family home, it's a social club which also affects it's value and negates the comparison to recently sold residential properties in the area. According to Forbes it's worth $325m less $33m of debt so a value of $292m. If Forbes is right then Trump was exaggerating it's value but not by anything like the amount the judge claimed.

[@jtjones4081]

It's incredible that some call Joe a journalist. If he's the new source of info we're screwed. He's way worse than the MSM.

[@williejackson7796]

😂😂😂excuses, excuses!!! LOCK HIM UP ASAP!!

[@mack8154]

It doesn't even matter what Trump says, the BANK SHOULD BE the one doing the evaluation, and Trump paid back the loans with interest anyways... Who was hurt??

[@davidscialabba6884]

2 acres of land just sold for 100 million, Trump owns 20 acres...that's not including the structures on the property...this is common sense....hilarious

[@sparkzbarca]

​​@@mack8154so to answer your question. The bank was hurt because they would have either not loaned him the money or loaned it out at much higher rates to account for the risk. The fraud is all the interest he should have paid that he didn't. This is by the way exactly what caused the 2008 financial crisis. Literally this. A bunch of people pretended to have income they didn't have to get loans for property that then when they couldn't pay back, wasn't worth what they got a loan for. As to "yeah but the banks job is to know that" Well yes and no. Part of what they do is make you fill out a form under penalty of perjury saying things like my property is this big etc and he lied on those. I'm not positive about Mara Lago but he gave a sqft for an apartment he owned in Trump Tower that was 3 times it's actual square footage. As to Mara Lago there's another problem though. HE FOUGHT THE COUNTY ON THE VALUE FOR PROPERTY TAX. this is where it gets pretty clearly ok you know what your doing. The county would come and say it's worth 300 million and trump would say no no no, I've given a bunch of this land over for conservation and this and that and it's worth 20 million. Then he county would agree and tax him at 20 million. He would then go to the bank the next week and tell them it's worth 1.5 billion. Quote "In 2020, Donald Trump appealed a $26.6 million valuation of Mar-A-Lago by the Palm Beach County Tax Assessor as being too high." So the judge is agreeing with Trump on his own value of the property. Which is where it gets hard to square the circle. Was he lying then or is he lying now? He either owes back interest or back taxes. He wants his property to be worth 2 million for taxes and 2 billion for collateral. I can't do that. You can't do that. Why can he? What makes him special?

[@dannyeverette4551]

This judge on the trump case spoke out before the case and said he basically didnt like trump and didnt like his policy, so how can they over see a case against the same person

[@MarcvWhitley]

The way Trump purchased property along with the zoning and land restrictions caused the value to be that low. I dont think Joe or any of his guests understand the case. Joe doesn't realize the damage he causes by not being informed on the details and making his opinions. Whether Joe likes it or not he is basically the news to some people. It is irresponsible to have reckless regard in communicating information. .

[@dmolmalowski]

when

[@dannyeverette4551]

@@dmolmalowski he was a paid speaker at some event and was doing the same thing all politicians do talking about trump and his policy in a negative way , this was before the case was brought

[@ketleonetwothousand2059]

Trumps own lawyers asked for the judge and didn't request a jury lol

[@dannyeverette4551]

@@ketleonetwothousand2059 I never said he didn't!! Comon sense says he did so to prove a point and put light on the fact that the judicial system is all political, just like the woke say it is !!

[@0xygenthief]

Keyboard $50, Mouse $30, Internet bill $65 a month. Watching Joe Rogan red pill himself on his own podcast... priceless.

[@kerrystainbrook2228]

The left has went so far bat shit crazy, loony left that anyone with common sense is branded far right.

[@idiotology5568]

What did you plug all that stuff into dude?

[@0xygenthief]

Potato@@idiotology5568

[@Wangchung405]

And a $40/mo Hulu membership to watch all episodes of king of the hill.

[@mmbs3191]

Banks are supposed to send an appraiser before giving the loan. Banks dont lend money based on the word of the person asking for the loan.

[@cyberft]

Exactly.

[@nealorr5086]

@@cyberft If the banks think something is amiss, they may send an appraiser. In this case Deutsche Bank thought the Trump family overvalued their assets by $2 billion - but they still gave them the loan, which means that the alleged overvaluation was immaterial to the business conducted. There's no legal requirement to have a property appraisal on every property you have (and 3 appraisers will give you different values anyway). Corrupt DAs and judges should not re-write the law to persecute people. It's not really that tricky to figure out.

[@carsondyle1793]

My uncle back in early 2000’s used to get bank loans with a hand shake and his word. He leveraged himself badly. Banks wanted their $ in 2008. Over come with shame, he decided to drive off a cliff on the way home.

[@juliansutton5819]

The banks did that. The Banks didn’t use Trump’s word.

[@joannewilson6577]

@@nealorr5086 Deutsche has a troubled history with regulators and prosecutors. Over the past decade a number of sanctions have been imposed on the bank and it has paid big fines over its failure to crack down on money laundering and over allegations of enabling tax violations, price fixing and foreign bribery. Why did Deutsche Bank crash? Before that, the bank went through a long stretch of low profitability and troubles with regulators going back to the 2008 global financial crisis, including a $7.2 billion penalty from U.S. authorities for misleading buyers of complex mortgage-backed securities that later went sour.

[@greymatters14]

Bruh, no bank is giving out a loan before the appraisal is done and in the banks hands. This whole thing is comical.

[@Isaac-eh6uu]

Exactly if it happens for us regular people they probably have a crew of people coming to appraise that property multiple times.

[@silkyb-love]

Deutsche Bank did...

[@LordFirestaff]

Well sorta, but a man's livelihood is at stake. I don't find it funny when bogus lawsuits seek to steal property from others.

[@jamesjross]

Yeah Bruh... Yeah. wallstreet bets. down with short sellers. GME to the moon Bruh

[@jamesjross]

@@silkyb-love don't argue with these idiots.

[@charlinethom1624]

Mar-a-Lago includes: An oceanfront swimming pool. A spa. A whirlpool. 6 championship tennis courts. state-of-the-art fitness center. full-size croquet court. A chip-and-putt golf course. And a Beach Club that has eight lavish seaside cabanas, a 100’ by 50’ pool, a whirlpool, and a beachfront bistro. It also has 58 bedrooms, 33 bathrooms, 12 fireplaces, and three bomb shelters. How in the world is that worth only 18 million? I'm not even a Trump fan, but this whole thing is clearly a farce.

[@marievandelaar2825]

It would cost about 30 million to rebuild, so by definition of value it is worth at least 60 million. A property cannot be valued for less than it costs to rebuild. Basic real estate.

[@xpndblhero5170]

You know damn straight he has a safe in that house that's literally full to the brim w/ cocaine.... 😂

[@spiral2754]

​@@xpndblhero5170Him or Hunter?

[@panchovilla6881]

It's a dump he bought it cheap & has not made many renovations. Just look at that picture of the bathroom & stage he kept the boxes/documents. It's a dump!

[@panchovilla6881]

My bathroom in a 200,000 home looks way better than that dump!

[@davidscialabba6884]

2 acres of dirt just sold for over 100 million....Trump owns 20 acres....lol

[@robertpierpont2262]

can the dirt be developed because maralago can't be touched or altered making it worth less than 2 acres of dirt that can have anything built on it.. lordy use your brain!

[@robertpierpont2262]

I mean seriously, they can rent out rooms & have weddings & banquets there & thats really it, thats a very limited use with very limited income, 2 acres could have a high rise condo or apartment building built on it & bring in a whole hell of a lot more money per year

[@davidscialabba6884]

@@robertpierpont2262 I'm in real estate my friend...Trumps property is worth 800 million to 1 billion plus easy...but thanks for the laugh....lol

[@davidscialabba6884]

@@robertpierpont2262 you must have voted for Biden....perhaps you should use your brain...lol

[@robertpierpont2262]

@@davidscialabba6884 sure buddy. maybe to the Saudis.. 800m to 1b.. thanks for the laugh.. & hes only taxed on it between 18m & 28m... derp!

[@zhanjas]

I thought that $18m number was for property tax assessment.

[@bleonar123]

bingo. Which they agreed was correct, obviously.

[@krusher74]

yeah. as usual rogan has no idea what he's talking about

[@skatealex1]

​@@krusher74Rogan seems deep in the right wing Texas bubble apparently

[@bowtieboy805]

@@skatealex1100% agree!

[@WhiteRhino.]

​@@skatealex1🙈. 🙉 lalalalala misinformation misinformation

[@LordFirestaff]

Joe could have just left it at, " I don't know shit about real estate", and called it a day. Homeowners can list their house for any price they want. They can also claim their house is worth a lot more than it actually is for a loan, but the underwriters decide whether or not they will take that risk after having an independent appraisal done. If they approved the loan, it's on them. They would also be the ones to file a lawsuit over a dispute like this; they didn't. This lawsuit is bs and needs to be thrown out in appeals.

[@nealorr5086]

One minor correction is that it should have never been filed, but the problem is that it's in NY so the appeals justices are also corrupt. Let's hope they are less corrupt.

[@LordFirestaff]

@@nealorr5086 Oh, I completely agree, but it's political. When it's thrown out, he should file a lawsuit against NYC, the AG, and the judge.

[@DillDough-dn4eb]

@@nealorr5086 yeah this case is seemingly kind of silly but who knows til it comes out. Trumps real trouble is coming out of Georgia false election fraud case

[@andrewsmith7523]

I think the overarching point is even to someone who doesn't know "shit about real estate," the $18 million valuation was so glaringly inaccurate.

[@treetrimmerbear9899]

@@LordFirestaff that’s probly what their planning on happening, knowing that they won’t by actual face any consequences and it will all just fall on the tax payers so again trump looks like the bad guy for taking money outta the tax payers pockets… there is no good outcome

[@IVIICHAELxx]

The judge has water in his head.

[@zingo392]

So many good points here thank you JRE!

[@kaleiohulee6693]

The prosecutor brought a case without a victim. She's saying he defrauded the banks to get loans when the banks never said that and the loans were paid back. All these cases are setting terrible legal precedents.

[@sthubbins4038]

Fraud is fraud. Not enforcing it sets a terrible legal precedent.

[@swickens930]

​@@sthubbins4038Fraud can't be fraud if no banks or states were defrauded. Try again buddy. There's no such thing as a victimless fraud case. You have to defraud someone for it to be fraud

[@pillmill8987]

​@@sthubbins4038 You don't even have enough money to commit fraud.

[@jumpski2655]

The victim is the state of Florida.

[@swickens930]

@@jumpski2655 The state of Florida told Trump they would only tax him based on an 18 million dollar price. Try again, it would be Palm Beach or Florida suing Trump, not New York. You also cannot commit a civil crime against a state, that's not a thing. A state isn't a person.

[@lifearttimes]

You are some of my favourite people, Joe, konstantin & Francis.♾️ Though, there are many people who are my favourite. INDIVIDUAL, is authentic, rare and unique. Shine On!✨

[@leonardhedlund5134]

In the state of Florida, the county appraiser bases the property value on the purchase price and each year raises the value by a certain percent (3 ?) for tax purposes. Then, we have homestead exemption, senior discounts etc. that determines the”taxable “ value which has nothing to due with the “market” value of the property. Therefore, a property that was originally purchased and taxed for one million twenty years ago would have a market value many times greater than it current taxable value.

[@robertpierpont2262]

that place can't be a 'home' so it can't have a homestead exemption

[@robertpierpont2262]

its literally a commercial property & no one can live there legally, trump stays there much more that what the original terms allowed but they let him get away with it

[@user-mr9yy3yf9q]

It’s COMMERCIAL property!! All this talk on tax rates is interesting, but it’s meaningless when Trump values it at $500 million. Total BS. But it’s what Trump does.

[@jabx55]

Didn't they get the 18 million from the official country records? Like he was supposed to pay taxes based on 18 million. There is also a big difference between what the property is worth for tax value and what it would sell for on the market.

[@darylthomas4522]

Let him pay taxes on 800 million if that is what will make Joe happy

[@darylthomas4522]

And backdate it as far as possible just to be fair,wouldnt want to upset Joe

[@JamieMilkz]

Dude… go back to sleep.

[@jabx55]

@JamieMilkz if you don't know these facts it sounds like you're the one thats asleep. Go buy a house and figure it out.

[@ItsBluecheeseWithWingsOrGo_]

You're correct, valuation by the county isn't always accurate. Some counties don't update their valuation regularly at all, and its partially based on the properties nearby which do sell within that range if you look at Zillow. So I would like to see the details of the assessments before saying the Judge was biased. That might be all he can legally go off of, also. Trumps lawyers might be able to argue that, but is that all there is to the case?

[@jopo7996]

Jon Oliver has really gone grey over the period of the writer's strike.

[@omensoffate]

This isn’t funny

[@BoulderfistDalan]

​@@omensoffate😂 mad bro

[@KermitTFYT]

@@omensoffateouch you angry bro.

[@ETAisNOW]

There’s a writers strike? Didn’t notice.

[@KermitTFYT]

@@omensoffateimagine being miserable

[@williamgrierson4133]

Judges literally take an oath to not be biased.

[@sigiligus]

You people don't understand what you're dealing with. These people believe the only truth is power and they tell you as much as every opportunity. Therefore, if they are in power (which they are) and declare they are unbiased, it is true because power said so.

[@oldtimer5316]

The Supreme Court is filled with biased judges. What’s your point? If you’re saying our entire judicial system is screwed, I’d say you are correct.

[@MilkyWayGalaxyy]

Just like cops take an oath but how many of them never abuse their power😂 how many doctors do not abuse bilking the insurance companies and medicaid and Medicare???

[@jasonedgar3632]

“These valuations are absolutely ridiculous!!!” Followed by “I know nothing about real estate valuations”

[@therealaustinpowers1967]

If mar-a-largo is worth $18 million, then my 2012 Honda Civic is worth 50 grand.

[@ruckinehround6965]

I will give you 51 sight unseen

[@RickyRicardo84]

I’ll give u 52 right now

[@Wi_Gong_Dye]

JRE Homies, Theres a difference between market value and tax assessed value. Market value: is wat someone is willing to pay for a home in ur area. An appraiser has some involvement in this process on the seller and buyers side. Tax assessor value: Only represents a portion of the property’s value. Is never in line with market value. Typically reassessments r done on an octennial basis or if an assessor drives by and sees u doing a bunch of exterior work. Tax assessments r limited to only be raised x% of a properties value per yr, regardless of how much the property’s market value increases.

[@saltywings41]

If they could read they would be angry.

[@mohammedhussain6749]

For those curious on the full story of why 18-37 million is because the Palm Beach County tax appraisers based it on the revenue it receives not the value of the property itself which they didn’t even include as it is too difficult to assess

[@LegalTubes]

Love this!

[@stevenhill5829]

pretty sure banks that loaned him the money (and already got paid back with interest) did their due diligence on the value of the property he claimed collateral on before they loaned the money to him..

[@chetbuxton764]

No one asks if Trump will get back his $$taxes since he assessed his taxes on a property that was 7x what they say it was?

[@stevealford230]

@@chetbuxton764 Land tax assessment is VERY different from market value.

[@wyattgouldthorpe1880]

@@chetbuxton764 This is not how property tax works.

[@chetbuxton764]

@@wyattgouldthorpe1880 can you tell investopedia this. They are even confused by your long, thorough and brief explanation proving them wrong “Property taxes are calculated by taking the mill rate and multiplying it by the assessed value of your property”

[@gilliandurkin3294]

Still bank fraud.

[@dicknastee1652]

The deed for Maralago states that it can only be used as a social club and not a private residence. A huge difference in property value😮

[@markandrews91]

The judge and district attorney are the two people who need to be on trial

[@CBDguitar]

Weak & gullible GQP snowflakes agree 👍

[@tommy1wingy]

why?

[@CBDguitar]

@@tommy1wingy Because if you come for Trump! You're really coming for his supporters! LOL

[@DHDivineONE]

​@@CBDguitar knock it off

[@CBDguitar]

@@DHDivineONE The buffoons need educated

[@82ndairbornevet]

When a bank lends money, they don’t just take the borrower’s word on what their collateral is worth! They have it appraised by their own appraisers, so if a bank lends more money than what a property is worth. How is that a scam?

[@stephenhood2948]

Its not. Some people still think "Mueller Time" is going to come.

[@sergii_real_estate]

Real Estate guy here: 1) Assessment/value got nothing to do with selling price/market price if he decides to sell it, so it's not definite representation of price, selling price is the only indicator of true worth. 2) For banks when they will do appraisal there is no comps for such a mansion, that operates not just as Trum'p's residence but as commercial ballroom/boutique hotel/social club. So depending on operation of the property the bank appraiser will go based on income (and we do not know how much revenue the property generated), not based on comps, because there is not such a thing around the neighborhood, so the bank appraisal is subject to revenue made by this club.

[@chrisfuller2069]

When you get a loan, the bank doesn't just take your word for it as to the value of your collateral. The bank accepted his appraised value at the time, period.

[@richardmetzler7909]

So, everyone who gets lied to and defrauded has no one to blame but themself, and fraud shouldn't even be prosecuted, or what are you saying?

[@chrisfuller2069]

@@richardmetzler7909 How did you get "fraud shouldn't even be prosecuted" from me making the accurate observation that the bank does not just let you make up dollar amounts for your collateral? Have you ever gotten a loan from the bank? Did they just take you at your word for it as to the value of your assets and income? BTW, the bank who you say got lied to and defrauded, is perfectly fine with the details of the loan, even after this story broke. You just really really wanting Trump to be guilty doesn't make it so.

[@richardmetzler7909]

@@chrisfuller2069 I would hope that a company's official financial statements are more reliable than "just making things up". (Donald Trump doesn't seem to think so, though.) The thing is, Trump didn't even share all relevant information with the accounting firm that put together the financial statement. Why do you think his business partners got better info? Whether the bank is okay with it is irrelevant - according to the law, what matters is whether the financial statements were untrue, and they were.

[@username3835]

Just being a historical site makes it worth a lot more

[@king_vision4085]

Everything is a historical site eventually

[@king_vision4085]

Being a historical site can also lower the price depending on the history. A house somebody was murdered in drops the price astronomically for an extreme example

[@diebartdie4202]

No.. you can’t develop land on the property

[@anonymous666951]

This property doesn't fit that description. @@king_vision4085

[@tonywilliams1631]

​@king_vision4085 but THAT example isn't the case here.

[@kills456]

And since when did banks start giving 100% loan to value loans I always thought it was like 75-80% of value after they appraise which you can dispute with your own information especially on a property that makes money which value isn’t completely tied to the property value alone but also the business attached to it. This is ludicrous

[@EpicAdventure21]

The brass tacks details are coming due.

[@gymmingathomefitnessadapta2991]

The stated price on the Palm Beach appraisers website is not the market value of the property. Those prices are two completely different things.

[@macadoocrue4595]

The appraisal is done before the loan is approved. Usually a loan of this amount requires 2 appraisals, maybe even 3 if there is disagreement.

[@slyguy68022]

The fact that everyone is talking about it sure makes it worth more.

[@justinohare297]

when i hear the high pitches, i tune out

[@brettharman8921]

the major problem w/ mar-a-logo is all the flights leaving west palm beach airport flies right over the property at low altitudes and alot of noise-

[@AZShaveCave]

I've interviewed at Mar-a-Lago several times and been given many personal tours. And I would guess its worth somewhere around 500 million. It's not just his home It's also a private club which garners much more value.

[@AmB39]

You lucky dog. I’m sure it’s not luck though and you’re just driven and high IQ

[@Slayer8957]

The location and view is incredible. Not to mention all the rich and famous people living around it as neighbors. The net worth is somewhere between $500 million and a billion. Even Forbes' valuation is lowballing it at $300 million.

[@mcartier8812]

I live in downtown WPB can I came thru and buy some merch??

[@kentvonmiddledorm677]

Only if it was a home. Its not. It’s a Community Center by the Sea for MAGA. You are mistaken and know very little about the topic. He changed the Zoning in the early 90s to lower his taxes because he was heading in to bankruptcy again. That forever hurt the value of the property. He somehow is still allowed to live on the property. The agreement in place with the town says he cannot. Palm Beach has been letting that slide.

[@fortusvictus8297]

Right, but those could be separate things. A single property can have multiple uses and split up in the accounting. Even small business owners do this, not sure why it is such a phenomena that big business people do it as well.

[@markschurer1874]

8:39 "The only way you're going to avoid jail is to win the Presidency." Most insane sentence ever.

[@JanderGray]

Amazing how fast this conversation turned around when they read about it.

[@CantTellYou]

Gotta love the Rogan Strategy 😂 speak with full authority, say “but I’m an idiot who doesn’t know jack” THEN read

[@M4rio21]

Didn't turn around at all. They thought 18 million was ridiculous appraisal, they read the article and laughed at how ridiculous that appraisal was; especially after looking at the pictures.

[@CBDguitar]

@@M4rio21 And the judge implored the media to stop reporting that he’d been the one to value the golf club and resort at $18 million. However, it's too late. Weak & gullible GQP snowflakes already ran with the lie.

[@edbarch5781]

It turned around in that Rogan started off saying how corrupt the judge is because he is determining himself what the property is worth, but after reading the article realized the judge got the pricing information from evidence in the trial. Sometimes I like Joe, but other times he comes off as such a buffoon. He complains about the media so much but he can be quite the misinformation machine.

[@zackhawn5944]

@@M4rio21 No. When Joe brings up Maralago Konstantin instantly goes "Oh the inflated value" He was talking about when Trump said it was worth 1.5bil. Which makes sense cause Konstantin is big Ukraine supporter

[@timglasby9277]

Do your homework Joe. The property is listed as a Historial site. No other houses can be placed on the property. No big changes can be made without approval from the Historical society. It's worth 18 mil because that's what Trump estimated it at for taxes.

[@Paul-vf2wl]

His homework is picking what whisky and weed he's going to consume during the podcast

[@brianmacphee8553]

Hey look. Some people DO know how to read. Warms my heart a bit.

[@txrdhdinaz184]

The 18M is the CITY/COUNTY TAX ASSESSOR VALUE. Trump had nothing to do with it. That valuation is hugely different from market value.

[@Paul-vf2wl]

@@txrdhdinaz184 I wouldn't put it past Trump to have bribed that city assessor so he could save on property taxes.

[@eberechukwualadi4838]

What a crock of shit, trump has nothing to do with this. No way he could even get away with it if he did. Calling some ignorant when you yourself are even more wrong than them is hilarious 😂

[@ColeenODay]

Florida, at least in Palm Beach county, calculates its real estate property differently than all the places in have lived (I too live in Palm Beach). The tax is based on the sale when the property was purchased and not actual value as of date (it increases slightly each year but would not be as much as the property sold today). In addition, if Trump claimed homestead exception (his primary residence), tax is less too. For example, a house down the street from mine was bought for 2 mils 15 years ago and sold in 2021 for 28 mils, the new owners would get taxed on 28 mils while the previous owners paid tax on around 3 mils.

[@coryevanz]

I couldnt tell my smoke from the smoke on the screen

[@fleeberjud4986]

The problem is not whether it is worth $27 million or $200 million. The problem is telling the lenders it's worth $200 million so you can borrow more and then telling the taxman it's worth only $27 million so you pay less.

[@yagballs676]

Nope. Read my comment on this thread.

[@throttle_therapy0025]

Anyone who applies for a mortgage inflates their home. And the assessed value is always lower. Usually based on prior years values and a percentage of that. And no one can really give value on that property. There’s nothing like it and people will pay more for trump’s property. But one thing is true. There’s no way it’s only 18.0mm.

[@Bobtubeau]

Even when you get a loan for a $100k house, the bank determines the value. You can tell them it's worth $1m, but it doesn't matter.

[@TheGreyGhost_of43rd]

Dumb as they come 😂 stop commenting

[@joannewilson6577]

@@Bobtubeau Deutsche Bank’s private wealth unit loaned Trump $48 million - after he had defaulted on his $640 million loan and the bank’s commercial unit didn’t want to lend him any further funds - so that Trump could pay back another unit of Deutsche Bank. “No one has ever seen anything like it,” said David Enrich, finance editor of The New York Times, who is writing a book about the bank and spoke to Trump, Inc. ➧ Deutsche Bank loaned Trump’s company $125 million as part of the overall $150 million purchase of the ailing Doral golf resort in Miami in 2012. The loans’ primary collateral was land and buildings that he paid only $105 million for, county land records show. The apparent favorable terms raise questions about whether the bank’s loan was unusually risky. ➧ To widespread alarm, and at least one protest that Trump would not be able to pay his lease obligations, Deutsche Bank’s private wealth group loaned the Trump Organization an additional $175 million to renovate the Old Post Office Building in Washington and turn it into a luxury hotel. Like Trump, Deutsche Bank has been scrutinized for its dealings in Russia. The bank paid more than $600 million to regulators in 2017 and agreed to a consent order that cited “serious compliance deficiencies” that “spanned Deutsche Bank’s global empire.” The case focused on “mirror trades,” which Deutsche Bank facilitated between 2011 and 2015. The trades were sham transactions whose sole purpose appeared to be to illicitly convert rubles into pounds and dollars - some $10 billion worth. The bank went through a long stretch of low profitability and troubles with regulators including a $7.2 billion penalty from U.S. authorities for misleading buyers of complex mortgage-backed securities that later went sour.

[@onequickthing8950]

The reason it's worth so little is because they zoned it very narrowly. You couldn't use it to build a residential area, for example because of the zoning. And then he claimed that the zoning was open when he appraised it. So one hand he got tax breaks for the narrow zoning, and then bigger loans because of the open zoning. He just lied and cheated and got caught. This is a document case, there's no intent or motive. They just look at the numbers in the documents. That's why there was a summary judgement. Because if the documents says it was ten feet and it was six, that's the ballgame.

[@azen9185]

You're speaking g facts to people who aren't interested in them.

[@TheCaminoGuide]

The city does not do resale value. The city\county calculate tax value, which is based on the original purchase price from decades ago. But you always, always, always use RESALE value for loan docs because the bank wants to know they could sell it to get their money back. Mar-A-Lago is worth a minimum $500 million.

[@silvamarkarian]

Good expanation...thanks...

[@WheelerRickRambles]

Pay properly taxes on low value Get loans on high value. Sell to someone needing to laundry a massive amount of ill gotten cash!

[@FirstnameLastname-ef5zj]

The $18m value is what it’s taxes are based on and what trump got the local government to value it at by agreeing to all sorts of things like that he couldn’t live there, couldn’t renovate it etc. It’s not the fair market value that it could get if it was sold without restrictions.

[@alexatedw]

Exactly. He put forward the 18 mil stat for taxes. Not the judge

[@brewinfusedyeti3798]

​@@alexatedwproperty owners don't control a tax assessed value. The county controls taxes. My property could be taxed at 375k but worth 500k. Owners cannot control the tax assessed value, they can only dispute it if they believes it's higher than the property value.

[@Mmjjmmjjmmjj]

Find out what the nearest tear down sold for. Use that figure to figure out what the land value is. Add a palace on top of it.

[@clifflong7944]

The Judge quoted the taxable valuation at 18 million,it’s worth 700 million. It’s a business and all the members get their memberships back when it gets sold….that will be a shitload.

[@camcambambam5128]

The funniest thing about this whole thing is, Mar a lago’s value just went another 15-20%

[@CBDguitar]

Due to workers intentionality flooding the pool?

[@worldobserver3515]

@@CBDguitar due to Trump outlawing Democrats from the property.

[@CBDguitar]

@@worldobserver3515 But then it's only worth something to weak & gullible GQP snowflakes.

[@alexkirrmann8534]

I wouldnt give you a penny for it.

[@DereliqueMahBAWLS]

Went up? Went down? Or just went? I’m confused

[@jrgregg75]

Not going to mention that Mar-a-Lago is deed restricted as a private club. The deed itself is restricted, it can’t be used for any other purpose, like a private residence.

[@jrgregg75]

@@humanbeing8400 the deed restrictions make it so you can't compare it to the residential homes near it, that's what Joe is doing.

[@TiL_Deimos]

@@jrgregg75so hes falling into the propaganda

[@KomodoDojo]

Per the NY Post- "cited a local Palm Beach County official saying the country club had been assessed at a range of between $18 million and $27 million between 2011 and 2021.”

[@nunyabusiness6356]

Said on the radio here it has a conservation lean thing on it so it can’t be developed

[@truthisoutthere6721]

If anyone overvalues their assets to a bank for a loan…..after that it’s on the bank to figure it out

[@Nate_K111]

Have you considered the possibility that you’re wrong about this?

[@deelowe3]

That's not true. People go to jail all the time for manipulating home appraisals. It was so bad in 2008 that they made it illegal for banks to do in house appraisals. It has to be with a 3rd party now. When it comes to large estates the rules are different though because where are so few on the market. It makes it hard to appraise. That said. Mar a Lago is worth at least 10x what that dumb judge said it's worth.

[@truthisoutthere6721]

@@deelowe3 you can’t go to jail for telling a bank you think your home is worth what you think it’s worth. You are simply stating your belief of your property value. It’s then the bank’s responsibility to verify it.

[@truthisoutthere6721]

@@deelowe3 I am extremely familiar with property values in south florida. Mar a lago is an incredible piece of palm beach real estate. I would conservatively value it at $850,000,000.

[@PackageTotal]

The banks did their own assessment. Don't know any bank that would just take the word of the real estate's owner. They would do their own appraisal and come to an agreement to a loan amount.

[@king_vision4085]

Fraudulent documents

[@king_vision4085]

Trump probably hired an appraiser and paid him to inflate the price worth. I’ve seen it as a property manager

[@PackageTotal]

@@king_vision4085 Can you explain to me what type of document it was and what was fraudulently put on it?

[@hchwhat]

@@king_vision4085then it would have been a criminal trial. That is a crime. And yet this is not a criminal trial and no banks have filed complaints or charges against him.

[@stevealford230]

@@king_vision4085 Compare it to all the lots around it, which sell for $30m per acre at minimum... times 17+acres... and then add in that it's a business which does $25m/yr, and calculate the valuation of the business plus the value of the land... and you'll see why THE LENDERS' INDEPENDENT APPRAISERS AGREED WITH TRUMP'S NUMBERS.

[@Hall1263]

Loan amounts are directly correspondent to third party appraisals. Banks don’t take people’s word for it when it comes to value.

[@unodos149]

Everyone knows the tax assessor's valuation is always wrong, either too high or too low. Bizarre for the judge to not call on a neutral real estate expert to assess the values for the court. I don't think it was a rigging decision by the Judge, but it shows the Judge's extreme inexperience and lack of understanding for real estate. Easy appeal.

[@Zion66666]

Either way, trump still inflated the value for loans and lowered it for taxes.

[@FromRootsToRadicals]

Bizarre? Dude its all political. They dont give a fuck about me, you or American voters. Its politics.

[@FromRootsToRadicals]

Inexperience! They are purposely doing this. Tired of people justifying corruption as accidental. Wake up.

[@FromRootsToRadicals]

@@Zion66666thats not illegal!

[@stephenhood2948]

@@Zion66666 Just like any smart businessman would do. If he paid more taxes than he was required to I wouldn't be voting for him.

[@chance24able]

If the bank gives you a loan before appraising property then shame on them.

[@jasonfritz838]

Except they did. The 3rd party appraiser testified and the corrupt judge didn't give a shit.

[@steve1085]

Just outside a major metro area, on 4+ acres, 8000sq ft with tons of finished outdoor space my house is still about $2 mil. $18mil for Mar a Lago is just silly. It's way more than 9x the value of my home for the size, land, finish, location...etc. Its crazy

[@patgraeme775]

2 mil buys an average 500k home in seattle portland area

[@nealorr5086]

@@patgraeme775 I'm no math genius, but I would think it would buy 4 such homes.

[@patgraeme775]

@@nealorr5086 the point was if an ordinary house is now half a mil , a palace on 4 acres in Miami is going to be expensive as fuck

[@piquat1]

Sharing a lot line with this place is a 3400 sq ft house on .67 acres valued at $52M. You live in a slum compared to the property values in that area.

[@Nate_K111]

Take a guess what he valued it for tax purposes… I’ll give you one guess. Lol crazy

[@sereganyc]

In every country people are watching comedy club called US justice.

[@jedison2441]

Yeah, because Trump isn't in prison yet.

[@jamesjross]

we're laughing at them because Trump/Biden is the best they have to offer. Two party politics is fucked.. nothing to do with US Justice.

[@joannewilson6577]

And you are watching Rogan comedy club to know the facts,you are that gullible.

[@imveryhungry112]

I cant even find a 2 bedroom condo with NO YARD for less than 1.5 million.

[@MrValrow]

If that place is worth 1.5B then Trump owes FL a lot of money, according to the tax appraiser it's only worth about 26M.

[@jasoncoder4392]

I wish he realized it is a resort that brings in 25M per year not just his personal residence. And I wish they understood that banks don’t lend on stated worth. The banks have appraisers that dictate the value.

[@larryray86]

I wish he hadn't become a pure right wing defendant 24/7.

[@skippylippy547]

Thank you Jason. You are Spot ON! 👍

[@stephenhood2948]

@@larryray86 Wish in one hand and shit in the other, see which one fills up faster.

[@larryray86]

@@stephenhood2948 Ohhhhhhhh

[@MilkyWayGalaxyy]

And banks don't let drug dealers launder their money through their banks for a cut. And banks overseas don't help US millionaires and Billionaires evade taxes. Banks always go by the book right? There are different rules for the rich and famous

[@wctmlt]

Trust. That is our primary issue as a country and as a government. Somehow we have stopped treating each other as fellow Americans and have divided into all these factions. We NEED to figure out ways we can trust one another or we will break apart from within.

[@dolphin069]

It’s a function of social media and that is a function of how the government agencies decided to divide and conquer and wage and information war against the people. Same thing they did overseas while fighting imperial wars they brought to America.

[@alexkirrmann8534]

Apparently no one gives a fuck. So Im kinda not supporting any political party. IM soooo disgusted with my fellow citizens that I dont know if we should be a democracy anymore.

[@matwinner9708]

You know who said it was worth 18 millions? Trump, to reduce taxes🙄

[@jimhester2627]

Mar A Largo has to remain as a private club which hugely restricts its potential value.

[@robbailie5878]

Surely its down the the due diligence of whoever is lending the money (bank I presume) to accept the value of a property if your putting it up as collateral on a loan. Someone somewhere would of had to have signed off on it.

[@nealorr5086]

No, an entire team of people, most of whom had degrees in finance would have signed off on it.

[@bukdjath]

It's a business, it's not a house.... businesses are valued higher than regular property

[@RealRandomReview]

I just looked at the comparables in the same area on Zillow for Mar a Lago. $24,300,000 is wildly inaccurate. There are several homes with an estimated value around the same or significantly more and all of them a a small fraction of the size for both the property and structure. In fact one of them is currently on the market for $40,000,000.

[@larracis]

There's one to the south of maralago like 2 lots down, 3.7 some acres. 9 bed 9 bath that zillow has estimated at 100mil. I was looking the other day just trying to see comparisons and I was flabbergasted, like if your gonna bs the system and the people at least make it look like it makes sense.

[@kronos6460]

@@larracis Mar a Lago isn't a house, it is a club. There are heavy restrictions on it where the owner can only live there a few weeks of the year and it can never be developed. This severely reduces it's vallue.

[@MrBentheretwo]

That 18 million was referring to the property taxes in that county paid for the year by trump org.

[@nealorr5086]

No, it was the local assessor's "valuation". It was upon that valuation that he has to pay taxes. Sort of like income tax. you're learn all about it when you buy a house.

[@EdwardHeavrin]

@@nealorr5086 exactly, but nobody ever said, especially the judge, that the house was actually valued at 18 million. JRE has his facts wrong

[@grantgooch5834]

@@EdwardHeavrinThat's exactly what the judge said. The judge said that Trump committed fraud by valuing the property at over 700 million because HE KNEW it was only worth 18 million since that was the tax assessed value.

[@folkertversteegh7708]

This is why im hooked to this podcast,you nailed it every time,Holland represent ❤

[@jamesjross]

do you also like the muppets? Lamb chops sing along?

[@joannewilson6577]

Attorney General Letitia James’ office found that Trump’s net worth in any given year between 2011 and 2021 was overstated by $3.6 billion. Her sweeping fraud lawsuit alleges Trump, his adult sons and his businesses made fraudulent financial claims to obtain better loan terms and manipulate taxes for the Trump Organization. This number is “still a conservative estimate,” James wrote in the Friday filing, because those experts accepted at face value many of the elements of Trump’s financial statements “that would otherwise be rejected in a full-blown appraisal review.” Filed in September 2022, the suit alleges that the former president, his adult sons and his businesses defrauded banks and insurance companies for years in an effort to obtain better loan terms and manipulate taxes for the Trump Organization.

[@carterhayes4624]

So the judge is saying that the bank who's business it is to give loans doesn't know the value of property?

[@leewalker9504]

As I heard though he overinflated every bank said they conducted their own appraisals and went off their number anyway.

[@boobiyoable]

It’s not a single family residence, it’s a club. The use permit does not allow anyone to stay more than 3 non-consecutive weeks per year. That would drastically decrease the value.

[@maxmeier532]

Dont bring facts in this discussion. This is Joe Rogan.

[@katieannrocks7947]

Wait why would that decrease the value?

[@piquat1]

@@katieannrocks7947 It doesn't. It's a business, making money. It's worth MORE than a private residence you can only live in because this place provides an income. You'll pay for that in the asking price as well. OP knows nothing about buying a business, thinks it's like buying a house. Probably 12 years old.

[@boobiyoable]

@@katieannrocks7947 The Chesterfield Palm Beach Awarded ‘#1 Hotel in Florida’ by Conde Nast Traveler’s Reader’s Choice Awards 2 years ago, recently sold for about $1,275 per sq ft. A top luxury single family private residence in Palm Beach recently sold for about $7,700 per sq ft. Huge difference. But even though $18m seems low for Mar-a -Lago, it’s much much closer to the true value than $1B - $1.8B that Trump claims.

[@replexity]

@@katieannrocks7947 because no one can /live/ in it

[@kcromeis]

in 2020 trump argued with tax appraiser to state value was 26mil

[@LordFirestaff]

Tax value.

[@maxmeier532]

Case in point, "VALUE". you cant argue tax value is property value divided by 60 lolz.@@LordFirestaff

[@LordFirestaff]

@@maxmeier532 You can list your home for whatever you want. If it's sells for $1billion, he'll pay capital gains on it. You can claim it's worth more than it is for a loan and the bank can then reject your loan based on that.

[@lex_inker]

Hey, I haven't looked into any of the this, haven't read anything about this, don't even really know anything about real estate but I'm ready to make a steel man opinion about this because I feel a type of way - Roe Jogan