Dissecting USAP's New Exit Velocity Test (PBCoR) & Company Tier List | EP 56

[@pickleballeffect]

Ronbus Ripple PBCoR test clarification: Ronbus told me "The PBCoR number I received from conference call with Carl for the Ripple 14mm approval was below 0.43. I am waiting for USAP's official notification/reports." I had stated that the test came in at 0.43 when Ronbus told me it was below 0.43. I should have just read the email to make that clear in the video. My bad.

[@DDOG_Pickleball]

We all make mistakes at times in this Pickleball Reviewing industry at times. I love that you owned it and clarified corrections once realizing/learning.

[@11SIX24pickleball]

Awesome pod! We appreciate the feedback and are working on a new site to launch soon!

[@goforwrd]

Loved this episode gentlemen. Creating massive value for all of us as always. Thank you for your work.

[@mrpapijoe]

Would love to see where y'all rank Spartus in the next tier list, I think they've made some quality releases

[@gregmuncy7820]

I will add that Paddletek and Engage have both donated paddles to our Breast Cancer Awareness raffle and to a friend of mine traveling to the Philippines. They have both been giving back and supporting pickleball and worthy events.

[@bodyhelixpickleball]

Thanks for the explanation about the USAP new rules. You made is easy to understand. Another awesome podcast!

[@kurt5347]

Hey gents, another great podcast, thank you! I love your insight into all things pickleball. In regards to the paddle ratings, I’m looking forward to your inclusion of other brands as well. However… Paddletek for the dub!! They ARE fantastic paddles! Gen 1, no thermoforming, no delam, no foam and a lifetime warranty, no worries! Made in USA. That being said, I feel like they stood patient and receptive during the huge rise in paddles coming to market only to drop some extraordinary paddles in the aftermath. I feel like other good companies will follow suit. I’m excited to see what Six Zero, Engage, Selkirk etc for example will drum up after the new USAPA standards come into effect. Thanks again!

[@ac8704]

I completely agree. This will be great for innovation. No longer just how much power can we make. Woukd love to see some longevity increases

[@RTJ-PB]

So when you guys beat the Olsons, it would be great is they had to wear PB Effect shirts or hats on their next pod - think that would be cool and would increase visibility for PB Effect - I suppose you guys would have to wear PB Studio stuff if you lose but we know that’s not happening

[@AddictPickleball]

Great video. Glad somebody moved on things quickly. Prices in the interim until November 1st: New: $2,095 - New Paddle Submission Similarity: $995 - Paddles that are structurally and functionally the same as a paddle approved under the same brand. Re-Submit: $750 - Paddle was previously submitted but did not pass testing. Not sure when they increased.

[@pickleballeffect]

Thank you for the extra info. This is great, didn't realize the prices were higher even now.

[@AddictPickleball]

@@pickleballeffect You and us both. Just talked to USAP. The testing crunch is going crazy. A lot companies are submitting as many future lines as they can before the new price changes take effect.

[@RC-tm8jo]

Honolulu Pickleball is S-tier, but I know they weren't included in your 12 company list for this video.

[@DinkSmashMedia]

Definitely had some solid offerings too! Would be impossible to include all brands for sure

[@dakotaaaron9556]

Is there a way to eventually replicate the PBCoR test and use it as a means of actually quantifying the size of a paddle's sweet spot?

[@pickleballeffect]

Now that would be cool. I imagine just doing the same test but shooting straight down at like 10 different points and then measuring the rebound height.

[@dakotaaaron9556]

@@pickleballeffect is that something you would eventually look into doing?

[@Drfloridajun]

What would be PBCor number for ModTA, gearbox and some of these really hot paddles? Do we have any data regarding these?

[@ArianaWilson-]

Great podcast. It's been a long time waiting for CRBN Trufoam.

[@christianeprice]

Oh man! April 1, 2025! I’ll probably have just finally adjusted to my Ripple R1 by then and they’ll delist it😜😂

[@pickleballeffect]

Ha we'll see but Ronbus told me they came in under .43 when they tested.

[@AlanThorsen]

I tend to agree with you guys about the hype of kevlar, and now "titanium". I realize money is involved in what they play, but as far as I know you don't see any top pro players playing with kevlar paddles. Glad to see Brayden still views Vatic Pro as A tier despite the lack of new stuff the past 18 months. I go back and forth between the Vatic Pro Flash, Prism Flash and DBD. The former is highly underrated. Similar power to the DBD, better pop, but somehow feels more controllable too. My explanation ... with harder outdoor balls the Vatic Pro has a heavier, denser, somewhat softer feel vs the DBD has a lighter, crisper, slightly harder feel. Didn't care for the Ruby at all. J2K is a very good paddle, but nothing off the charts. Lots of hype though. Did you boys kick the Olson boy's butts ?

[@DinkSmashMedia]

We play them this weekend!

[@AlanThorsen]

Good luck and have fun. Don't be too hard on them, don't want them to cry on the trip home to frigid Minnesota 😂. But don't let them gloat either. 😊

[@rinab9876]

How do they control how hot paddles get through break in? Do they test through break in or until core corruption?

[@kabob21]

That would be a no. But to be fair the paddle shouldn’t change significantly through break-in if it was designed correctly.

[@pickleballeffect]

They aren't doing testing to account for that yet though they are aware of that and have that in the works I believe. They do paddle tear downs though, which may be to look for potential issues like this in the short term.

[@86309]

@@kabob21 but the reports from the reviewers such as John Kew even said the Ripple is changing and getting hotter as it breaks in.

[@roguegaston]

Are they making the power test equipment available for purchase or clear reproduction providing specs? I wonder how mfgs will be able to do R&D without it?

[@jamesnorris2793]

As paddles "break in" and become more hot, I imagine a paddle that tests as 0.43 CoR new would likely be much higher after a few weeks of use.

[@jylarouche1151]

How about Gruvn Paddle?

[@HughMungus8]

CRBN took too long, so I just bought the Ripple and Mod TA instead. Oh well 🤷‍♂️

[@DianSusiana98]

Enjoy the podcast. Will brands such as Honolulu, HUDEF, Gruvn appear in the next paddle company tier list?

[@acupof_joe]

I haven't hit with the ripple but I use a Perseus 3s and id like to switch now instead of waiting to find out that its above .44 in a year... even though I know its not even USA-P approved but I assume it would be if its less power/pop than the MOD. Let me know what you guys think.

[@pickleballeffect]

I would guess the 3S paddles would pass USAP testing.

[@acupof_joe]

@@pickleballeffect Wish i didnt love it so much because now i compete with it and i wanted to start doing more app but thats out the window

[@Eric-Denton]

First I have a feeling the list is going to make me shed a tier

[@pickleballeffect]

😂

[@kimleith1378]

Seems that a system that "swings" the paddle instead of stationary,, would be more accurate of a real game scenario.i.e. golf club swing robots. Body Helix idea is great. Hoping the new 007 brings something new to the game. New player to paddle manufacturing GB Sports is comiing out with an all aluminim core and face sheeet. There's a guy near me who;s been making paddles in his garage with aluminum cores with CF faces for years. My GB Pro Pwr E has been my go to once I figured it out. High price yes, but patents are expensive. There is no one copying them because of it.

[@JonLee108]

I don’t think you guys discussed six zero, and am wondering why

[@kevolutionpb]

hasn't come out with anything innovative as of late other than slight variations/iterations of their old paddles, pricing is generally a bit higher than similar competitor paddles

[@tanpen15]

Honolulu Pickleball is S-tier for sure.

[@hk6474]

What about Spartus?

[@RTJ-PB]

Awesome pod guys!

[@pickleballeffect]

Thank you!

[@metal_bloo]

If Ripple is .43 then Mod TA & Gearbox Pro Power are AT LEAST .44 if not more. Paddletek is would be at most .42

[@crbnpickleball]

🖤

[@DinkSmashMedia]

We are waiting 😂😂😂

[@crbnpickleball]

​@@DinkSmashMedia We hear your loud and clear! You and the 1000 people who email/call us for updates every week 🤣. We're definitely making progress, but don't have an exact ETA yet. We want it to be perfect.

[@DinkSmashMedia]

@@crbnpickleballemailing you now 😉

[@crbnpickleball]

​@@DinkSmashMedia clicks over to inbox > *Mark as spam* 😜

[@mr.mr.3301]

Give me control. Longevity and a good price.

[@harryhoople1684]

Carl Schmidts from USAP is not happy that podcasters are talking about PBCoR testing. From Carl: " The information JK [John Kew] presented is a) partial and for manufacturers only as we are still in commenting period, and b) will be presented to the public once complete. It's unfortunate you, and JK, have jumped to these conclusions without asking further questions. Also - we've been publicizing progress on this since May." First, it's curious that Carl doesn't know that podcasters have close relationships with manufacturers and, therefore, this supposedly confidential information will leak out. Second, why oh why is the information confidential? USAP could do themselves a favor by appearing transparent by releasing the information.

[@DinkSmashMedia]

I have no sympathy for his gripes. Pickleball is in a weird limbo right now and we need some transparency. If he doesn’t want us digging to find what we can to share he should open a line of communication with the podcasters and use us to get the word out because they obviously don’t do a good job of it. End rant 😂

[@Houjixful]

Doesnt ProXR own paddletek

[@DinkSmashMedia]

Sort of the other way around. They are all under the same umbrella which is why we are seeing a proxr coming to market with the paddletek core very soon

[@jmac430]

If you're betting on futures as well as price, I think proXR has at least gotta be B tier... you're betting futures on others way more expensive and also saying paddletech is way up there when you know they're gonna use the same core as paddletech (it's within the same company now?) On their new paddle

[@danielkoste1639]

You guys are a contradiction!! You keep Ronbus off the list because the Ripple is not released to the public yet you see them and have them and is making waves everywhere! But you give CRBN an S-tier on a paddle that hasn’t been released to anyone?!?

[@setrazy]

Uhh did you actually watch? They gave CRBN A tier and said it would be S tier if the trufoam was out. And for Ronbus they speculated just as well that they would put it in A tier if it made the cut

[@danielkoste1639]

I watched and put the wrong tier by mistake. They still kept Ronbus off which is a massive blunder when the brand is literally shaking up the classifieds currently with offers for preowned paddles going for well beyond what they retail for. The consumer demand is speaking volumes when the public is mostly unaware of the yet to be released CRBN so that only leaves their other offerings which are very good for 2023!

[@DinkSmashMedia]

@@danielkoste1639the brands we picked were not representative of the top 12 brands we just picked 12 brands we think would span several tiers

[@pickleballeffect]

Life is full of contradictions

[@danielkoste1639]

While life is full of contradictions, and I agree with your S-tier choices, Ronbus should have been right there next to them. 🎤 ⬇️ You guys are great!

[@gabeetzel3240]

I kind of feel like you guys waffled back and forth between a "brand" tier list and a "paddle" tier list. Talking brand specifically, Selkirk has to be at lowest A, but I don't like a single one of their paddles. Engage and Franklin make A tier paddles, but their brands are just in shambles. BnB is pretty clearly A based on their branding, although their paddles are good. I think you can separate this into two lists--one just for paddles and another for the company's marketing/what they do for the sport

[@pickleballeffect]

We talked before hand about general factors we were considering but you're right, we should have been more cut and dry with what those factors were and how much weight they had and it would have made the conversation more clean. We seemed to over value and under value different things with different brands a bit.

[@DinkSmashMedia]

Pod idea we each do a straight up top 10 paddle releases this year blind. Just specific paddles. Could be a fun one before year end. I agree things got a little muddy between brands and paddles. Brands I think aren’t great still have some good paddles 😂

[@gabeetzel3240]

​@@DinkSmashMediaand brands I think totally nail marketing have some pretty subpar paddles. Thanks for the response, guys! I really enjoy the pod and listen weekly

[@panamaslim595]

crbn trufoam series update please

[@pickleballeffect]

I'm supposed to be getting production models while I'm in Dallas early November. That's the only info I have.

[@panamaslim595]

@@pickleballeffect you would think it’s the holy grail With all these new releases players spend money on paddles the least companies can do is give us a round about date and price

[@pickleballeffect]

@@panamaslim595 yeah, it's been frustrating on that one.

[@crbnpickleball]

We hear you and completely understand the frustration. Trust me, we’re right there with you. We've learned a lot through this process, and one of the mistakes we made was allowing some paddle reviewers to get their hands on prototypes too far in advance. We didn’t think it through at the time. The reviewers understandably got excited and hyped things up, but it was premature. They didn’t do anything wrong-it was entirely our fault. Moving forward, we’ll make sure to keep things under wraps until we're fully ready for people to start talking about new technology or paddles. Additionally, we’ve been cautious not to announce any launch dates until we’re truly ready. The last thing we want to do is overpromise and underdeliver. So, while I understand why you’d ask, we just aren’t ready to share any dates yet. Believe me, we’re eager to put a solid date out there, and we’ll do so as soon as we’re confident in it. Hopefully, this gives you some insight into our perspective. We’re genuinely doing our best and pushing to advance the sport and paddle technology. What we’re working on is more complex than what’s currently out there, and this complexity makes mass production more challenging. This isn’t an excuse or a knock on others, just the reality of our mission. That said, we’re incredibly excited about what’s coming, and we know it’ll be worth the wait. Thank you for sticking with us-we can’t wait to share what’s next!

[@fredocooks441]

Sleeping on ACE paddles!!

[@LouisBrown19]

Expect USAP to do a better job of pickleball.

[@65atBestPB]

.44 … lol … it’s obvious it should not be higher than 42.7 😂 Love the idea of a paddle company providing uncertified prototypes. I love playing with different paddles … new tech … this could keep me from paddle induced bankruptcy. If you get that one whiner … “dude, illegal paddle” … just say you are doing it for the advancement of the game, what are they doing for the game? 😂 Serious question: Why couldn’t a paddle company be successful skipping the entire approval thing. The vast majority of players don’t play tournaments, but many still want a quality paddle. The cost of certification is being passed on to the non-tournament player. Hard to make the argument you are protecting game from dangerous illegal paddles when there is a legal MOD 15. I would like to introduce you to one of our regulars MOD 15 overheads. My Prism Flash pees itself a little every time a short lob goes up. I have a good overhead from tennis, and one voice says “game on … get me a MOD 15”. I don’t see how that ends well.

[@danielcalderon4349]

sleeping on honolulu pickleball company apparently 😴💤

[@CoreTekPB]

This test is directly misleading and considers all paddles tested to be of static stiffness. This is a total joke.