Centreboard or Lifting Keel? Building an Aluminum Boat - Design Part 3 with KM Yachts | EP 207

[@edrosenberger6947]

This was an excellent discussion about differing centerboard types.....thanks to you three!!!

[@DistantShoresTV]

Glad it was helpful Ed!

[@1truthseeking8]

​@@DistantShoresTV I am struggling to understand the "why" aluminum? Isn't aluminum ""extremely"" prone to corrosion? Ever experience with aluminum that I have had is fraught with SALT and WATER = destruction. What am I missing??????

[@esr243]

Very instructive. If I win the lottery i’d call this gentleman. Well done !

[@mosca3289]

Interesting seeing the stability curve. So many discussions of seaworthiness are 100% anecdotal, 0% data.

[@dajobra]

This guy is so dutch I love it. There are many high quality aluminium builders in that area, so good choice. Enjoy the design process

[@Bari_Khan_CEng_CMarEng]

Great video, and history meeting the gentleman's father!

[@Chris-fo8wp]

The Dutch definitely know their metal boats!! Fair Winds!!

[@marcelvdfvandamme5927]

Hi Sheryl, Paul and of course Eeuwe. What a fascinating tour to follow. Eeuwe is such a passionate professional and has so much knowledge. Really beautiful to watch. Within a few years we are going to have a new boat build. We were opting for other (polyester) boats, but with the knowledge of many video’s we saw we are now convinced it has to be a aluminium boat. And having it custom built is such an adventure. Thank you so much for this opportunity to have a look in ‘the kitchen’. My best regards also to Eeuwe. Greetings from Zeeland, the Netherlands 🇳🇱🤙🏻

[@Psychobilly]

Yeah!!! I’m so happy now guys. Lemme watch this great Saturday morning!! Love that Oester!!

[@DistantShoresTV]

Enjoy Blair! Have a great Saturday :-)

[@philipwright7186]

Hi Sheryl and Paul, You've gained huge experience with Southerly yachts so surprised to hear you mention you were looking to improve the performance of the keel. I always imagined the later Southerly keels to be amongst the best solutions available, I.e. fully retracting, cast iron grounding plate, deep draft when lowered.. In what way do you feel they could be improved?

[@Gottenhimfella]

I can't pretend to know what's in their minds, but both they and particularly Eeuwe did make reference several times to the relative inability of the rudders in this style of boat to exert sufficient turning or course corrective effort in all situations, due to their shallow draft. I wonder if they were thinking of the keel/rudder system as a package when they made that comment? The minimum draft of the keel system does (in the absence of transom-hung, dagger rudders) effectively dictate the maximum draft of the rudders, even if they are telescopic (which as Eeuwe points out, is not a popular option)

[@simonhantler8062]

Eewue is easy to work with and KM have the total process covered. the design part is so interesting.

[@Tomm9y]

Do the sailboat stability calculations take into account high equipment such radar, solar arch, davits? I wonder how much the additional equipment alters stability. Can the keel be locked in the down position? If the boat was knocked down the keel needs to remain in the down position.

[@williambunting803]

That was very enjoyable. Some years ago I was designing a 39ft Bristol Channel Cutter as a ferro cement boat when I began to see your earlier Distant shores and fell in love with the whole “drying out” feature. I had built a swing keel Samson Cquoia ferro cement boat back in the seventies but that had a 4’6” draft, and would not stand on its keel (I did try that once by accident but it fell over when the tide went all the way out). So with the Bristol Channel cutter (traditional lines) I took to the hull with a cutting plane and took the keel off to a flat plane and designed a stainless steel grounding plate and a swing keel very similar to the Southerlies, and it worked (as a design at least … never built … too old … bought a S135 instead, now living aboard permanently). The completely retracted keel is to be fought for, I agree. When I get sailing I will consider a rudder rebuild with a retracting blade.

[@lisaoakley8032]

Somehow I missed the discussion of the pros and cons of a C/B vs a lifting keel. Could anyone tell me at what point in the video they actually contrast these two option?

[@pnwesty7174]

KM make some remarkably beautiful boats.

[@fransdriesen1311]

Outstanding presentation by Eeuwe Kooi with your pointed questions..... He knows his stuff and is straight forward with his answers.. The righting moment graph was very interesting so at 30° heel there is about 1,500 kgm righting difference between the CB up or down.. I know for a fact that the Dutch know what tidal water is all about, so what they are presenting as solutions is not to be ignored.. I do like the CB set up and the "telescopic" rudder construction.. The third rudder for the prop wash is almost a must as these twin rudders do nothing in going astern during maneuvering where controlling prop wash is important.. The Oester set up with the bow thruster is my favorite.. Eeuwe made a very good point about going down wind and loosing your rudder steering effect.. Of course, the solution is a deviation from the traditional keel set up as you both like to be able to explore shallow waters..so compromises are in order, but the Dutch know how to sail and design for these waters.. Enjoyed this video and I am looking forward for the next deliveries.. Good job in keeping us informed.. some interesting footage, courtesy Eeuwe Kooi kzbin.info/www/bejne/e57Fgp2PhtONldU

[@stevenmoore6893]

You've mentioned several times that you would like to improve on the performance of the Southerly. Could you elaborate around your goals and expectations there?

[@andrewb5987]

Fascinating watching the design process! Thanks so much for sharing :)

[@carryonsailing]

Best wishes to you both, this is starting to take shape. Interested to see that you would choose a master forward of the mast. She will be as bulletproof as you can get for sure! Love that you are back to what you inspired us all for, expoloration. Thanks for the years of inspiration. James, Eva and Elbe

[@mikedevlin2048]

Really enjoying these talks with Kooi...

[@mtrezaie]

No they are not. Not even close! HR 44ft goes around 12000 max at 60, this at 45ft goes around 10000. HR 50 is even higher at all angles.

[@mikedevlin2048]

@@mtrezaie You are of course right 👍🏻 I must of remembered the HR figures incorrectly, Thanks 🙏🏻

[@mtrezaie]

@@mikedevlin2048 Well, HR boats are heavier. These boats much be having more performance if I am reading polar charts. While being a tank.

[@mikedevlin2048]

@@mtrezaie I Sailed on a HR49 years ago... Fantastic craft.

[@mtrezaie]

@@mikedevlin2048 They are dream boats.

[@Pstr1315]

What an amazing video series. I am a naval architect work in designing ships in the Netherlands. It's always nice to see the process of designing a new boat.

[@DistantShoresTV]

Glad you are enjoying it! We will keep adding to the series as the boat is constructed!

[@Pstr1315]

@@DistantShoresTV looking forward! Already watched all of the videos you made on the new boat

[@mikequinlan9585]

Looking great can’t wait to see the new boat take shape! 👌😁👍

[@corujariousa]

Very nice learning from this video. Thank you.

[@krispress7824]

Cool you meet his Father so many years ago in Bimini. Now looking into the same type of boat with his Son.

[@floathi]

Going to be a very interesting boat. Looking forward to the build Cheers

[@PaulusPHM]

Can totally understand where you guys are at. That's why we opted too for alloy. One design we looked at was explorer 54 a french boat. Then we ended up with 'van de meer, we also had our round with KM. But still ended up with an Huisman build 166'

[@hv7978]

Yeah right. A boat of like tens of millions USD worth. Decadent to say the least.

[@PaulusPHM]

@@hv7978 decadent is just a matter of opinion, in our view it is sustainability of maritime heritage

[@dwayneramirez2370]

Very good instructional discussion. Did you guys consider the García exploration aluminum yacht? If you did I will very much appreciate to know your observations you considered and what made you not choose a García. Thank you.

[@dennisrobinson4588]

A most exciting boat. I am looking forward to seeing more of this build. I have gone to their website to get information, they seem to be a very insightful builder, I see why you chose them for this project. Wish I could be in Annapolis this month would love to discuss this builder with you. I would love a Oyster but the KMY yachts may be a good alternative. Good sailing and God’s speed!

[@paulvr3158]

Great discussion, thanks so much. I love these boats...

[@lazerdog2438]

Excellent video. One question - I saw the stability curve, which is very impressive; however, if the boat gets knocked down and there is no securing pin on the centreboard, at what angle does gravity want to re-house the centreboard. Should a 're-housing' occur, what does this do to the stability as all the ballast is in the center board. Just a thought.

[@benskai2475akurfishing]

Greetings from Indonesia, the Aru Islands, Maluku Province, on the Indonesian border with Australia

[@reellove6710]

Very informative. Thank you.

[@gdholmfirth]

Most enjoyable.

[@DCGULL01]

the righting movement polar reflects the light weight of aluminum, the volume of flotation and the location of the mass of the keel- ultimately a very stable hull! Keel down or up. Wow!

[@markhwl8345]

Amazing info and video, thanks guys

[@larag4646]

Be sure to find out how to check that keel pin (yolk or whatever they call it) or mounting points for any signs of pending failure. Catalina swing keels have problems with the keel bolts failing and the keel falls out and there goes all your ballast.

[@terrafree]

Great interview! Very informative, thank you:) I have a question regarding the vanishing stability chart with keel out vs in. With a swing keel, when passing beyond 90 degrees, is there a point that the keel swings into the up position as you roll over? I am unclear if there’s any mechanism keeping the keel in the “out” position. And if not, it would seem the boat would immediately switch to the other plotted stability curve? Thanks

[@mazevx2451]

Very interesting stuff!

[@janliljeberg3769]

I have a question concerning location of the sink, its so close to the hull on starboard. When sailing up to the wind, the boat will heal, and correct me if I'm wrong, if you forget to close the valve, the sink will fill up with water, or even worse, the water will run out in to the boat???m

[@2thelight]

Great point about the pilot house air volume preventing a roll over, had not thought about that before, but the windows would probably need to be hurricane windows to keep them from breaking. As I turn my direction away from catamarans and back to monohulls, I am looking for a monohull with both the shallow water capability and the 360 degree views through the wndows. I am surprised the pilot houses are not bigger? extending forward past the mast, taking from the american down east style, put the galley in the pilot house along with a head, 2nd helm, a bedroom for the pilot; and finally only one helm in the cockpit, I would not want twin wheels in the cockpit of a cruising boat. I would consider no helm in the cockpit, maybe just a throttle for the engine and use the remote for the auto pilot possibly. I have seen a similar set up on custom boats but they were home built and did not have the fit and finish of these boats from Europe.

[@ende421]

Very interesting! About the center board design: The Dyneema pulley is clever ... but that also means the board will swivel up when the boat is rolled over topside down, no? At what angle does that happen? Why doesn't the stability curve take that into account? Thanks again for these great videos!

[@DistantShoresTV]

Very good question! Yes if the boat goes past a 90 degree knockdown the keel would want to retract. However KM have used a system with a clever retaining line that stops that from happening. We'll cover that in an upcoming video.

[@hthring]

was wondering this too

[@MonkPetite]

I think there is “ less” time to fold back during a role. The hing point are not that well greased als the hinge is aft of the keels Center point of gravity.

[@clivestainlesssteelwomble7665]

Some lifting keels have a shear pin or k Catch to lock the keel down but if the keel strikes anything too solid it will break allowing it to fold back into its box. The other type is the dagger board type lifting keel that has to be raised and lowered.. There are also keels that are water ballasted for Smaller vessels.

[@mtrezaie]

Are you going to not have an aft cabin? Is the center cabin that good in your opinion? I like to be in the center a lot, but I get claustrophobic in small beds sometimes (damn The Decent movie). Also, what do you think about implementing Sirius 40DS's layout, but a bit bigger so that the aft cabin becomes an office, while the middle cabin gets big enough to have better space around the bed.

[@DistantShoresTV]

Thanks for your suggestions. We'd like more technical space and a good sea berth aft so are not going to have a large central aft cabin on DS4. It was luxurious on both DS and DS3 but there was a lot of wasted space in each. Nice layout on the Sirius 40. There is less motion centrally in a boat so a central cabin is appealing.

[@mtrezaie]

@@DistantShoresTV ;-) Please keep us updated. I am looking forward to seeing what you choose. Sirius 40DS sounds very good to me but if I wanted to pay that much I will go aluminum and copy the concept.

[@sailing.not.dreaming]

This is beautiful

[@paulsmyers203]

I'm curious what you're going to have for an office on board. So many KZbinrs that I watch just setup their laptop on the salon table and end up with a really non-ergonomic workstation and a small screen. Dedicating a little space for a big screen mounted to the bulkhead and some desk space for spreading out notes, a full keyboard and mouse, I think could be really beneficial for people who live and work on their boats. I feel like I've seen some model of sailboat before that had an office layout but I can't recall what it was.

[@donaldvanvliet9039]

Ah i see you finally made it to makkum and onto oester…can’t wait to see more footage of that!

[@DistantShoresTV]

Yes we sail on Oester and filmed it for an upcoming video. Strong winds and fast sailing in this very interesting lift keeler!!

[@donaldvanvliet9039]

@@DistantShoresTV they always say all boats are compromises, but oester seems to be able to do it all…, speed, drying out, comfort, interesting dinghy solution, room for solar, deck house, high latitudes, tropics, rivers, high seas… love your videos by the way.

[@oddjobkia]

The is a very interesting talk on Sailing Millennium falcon with Kraken Yachts… there is some things regarding keels etc on there that makes for some good thinking

[@offpro]

I have been waiting for this video! 👍

[@DistantShoresTV]

More to come, Mats! So glad you enjoyed this video.

[@kennethhammond6683]

I am just thinking here, how efficiently does a centreboard, lifting keel yacht hove to if caught out in storm conditions?

[@bumblebeehald]

Cool to learn a little about the swing keel. The last years the french center boarders have run with alot of the attention. I am curious though about the swing keel - the stability curves are impressive. But in the unlikely event of a capsize will the swing keel still stay in the fixed “down” position or will the invert of the hull swing it in and thereby decreasing the positive stability?

[@bumblebeehald]

I just Saw you answered same question further down. Thanks 😃

[@johndodds7949]

See sailing melody drop the centerboard on their steel hill..reminds me of a crankshaft cap and bearing!

[@acfon7369]

Very helpful video!

[@DistantShoresTV]

Glad you think so AC Fon!

[@Nerd3927]

28:50 That is Vlieland in the back ground. I think you were standing on the Richel sandbank. I love that island more then words can explain :-)

[@John-tz3ii]

Excellent series and love the design discussions. I apologize if I missed this somewhere but I was curious if you also considered Garcia, even as a comparison of functionality and design? When you announced your next project, it seemed a forgone conclusion that you had already selected a design and build team. It seems like quite a bit of duplication with Jimmy Cornell's Garcia. Keep up the excellent work and best of luck.

[@thomaschilcott]

The philosophy is much the same, but I get the impression that they are really trying to maximise righting moment over the Southerly centreboard. The Garcia has all the lead in the bilges and very little in the centreboard, so it's unlikely to be an improvement in that regard. Of course, sailing with the centreboard of the Garcia up is no real hindrance because it doesn't affect righting moment that much...

[@nessuno1948]

Very interesting.

[@jeffdege4786]

Centerboard vs lifting keels? Mine has leeboards. It's a Herreshoff Meadow Lark, stretched to 37 feet and built in fiberglass by Alan Vaitses. It's sharpieish - narrow and shallow. Eight foot beam means it can be trailered without permits, but being that narrow it's nice to not have a centerboard trunk.

[@DistantShoresTV]

Thanks for your comments and insights, Jeff.

[@noahhorwitz5644]

What is the difference between dagger boards compared to lifting keels or centre boards

[@luisbelmonte1532]

dagger boards arent heavy weight and are only used for sail performance rather than stability

[@imykoigmail9622]

Hey, you guys are my new favorite… Sorry about your old boat /

[@gregoiremichiels5064]

I just discover your Channel . I love it. Did you look at Boréal Yacht ?

[@LoztDaze]

Will you be going with a solent or cutter rig? With the double rudders, could you get them skeg hung?

[@carlthor91]

The rudders efficiency would go down with skegs. I don't know the calculation, but the rudders would need to be a lot larger, to make up for the turbulence and drag of the skegs.

[@NJ-Cathie]

I have a crazy question: won’t the metal get hot in the summer sun on the deck?

[@klausmenzel9449]

A dream boat! But it gets bigger and bigger. Think of a toilet and wet locker at the companionway, in bad weather you do not want going through the saloon. fair winds, Klaus

[@dusadeehirunyalekha2141]

Are they design for Aluminium catamaran as well ?

[@jorisnooij7822]

very interesting , I would opt for bunk beds for guest that don't like to sleep together. Also I would love to see some numbers on leeway keel up and down. what is the impact of shallow draft keels and leeway in sea conditions. Good luck and fun on your enterprise.

[@Psychobilly]

wow, this one just popped up. Has it been 2 years already!?!?

[@johnwatt9488]

Can you adjust the centreboard while underway?

[@KMYachtbuilders]

Yes, it can be locked in any position.

[@-freespirit-3314]

The Dutch are the best 👌🏻🥂

[@eyolfchristopher8071]

Id realy like you to make a video about waquiez amphora preferably

[@larsolivius]

You lost my attention at about 25 minutes in. The segment was about the difference between centreboard and lifting keel. However, so far through the clip I noticed that no distinction was made between those two solutions. In fact, I think they were used as if identical solutions.

[@dougmarder]

Thank you for sharing this with us! I love what can be done with GRP materials but the lack of a good path for recycling has always bothered me (especially after seeing all those hulls sitting on the bottom around the world). I look forward to the rest of this series and hope to see you again in Annapolis!

[@EdwardAgabs]

Why don't you look into Garcia Exploration 45 or 52, it seems it is exactly what you are looking for (I'm not associated with Garcia)

[@TommasoLuppi]

😍

[@Majorvideonut2]

The one I had they called a swing keel.

[@Yeaitstemp]

How fo I get a job there would love to build boats a d learn all I can

[@sausage5849]

Daggerboards 4 the win.

[@nobody46820]

🙂👍🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[@peterhansen767]

Nur eine Dusche für diesen Riesenpott? Das ist ein Planungsfehler.

[@lenardhall9619]

If the kill broke off would the boat roll over

[@johnwarren7155]

With dubbed wheel on the stern and a wheel in the wheel house for bad whether.

[@johnnyllooddte3415]

with trimaran fixed rudders

[@ZoneTelevision]

Bestevers are fast cruisers

[@Aheitchoo]

Uu-loo-men-um!

[@sailingcitrinesunset4065]

Your building another boat already?

[@robmidgley]

The stability curve looks wrong. It seems to assume that the centreboard will stay down as the boat turns inverted, which of course it won’t with this mechanism, which requires gravity to keep the board blue line should jump to the red line at some point; Im guessing somewhere not far past the vanishing stability point for the centreboard down case, so the energy to recover from an inversion will be greater than the designer seems to claim

[@johnnyllooddte3415]

lifting keel easily

[@GreatOutDoorWorldofMines]

Just get plastic tanks

[@brianmcgrady2674]

He keeps pronouncing it for you "OOster", why do you keep saying oyster? Is it maybe the dutch guy doesn't know how to pronounce the name of his boat and your teaching him? Oest (Pr oost) is East in Dutch.

[@drlv3250]

Get a puffin.

[@podocrypto6072]

Aluminum.... Uggh! Noisy and you will constantly chase corrosion.

[@davidbliss8352]

I’ve noticed it’s become popular to mispronounce the word aluminum. Where are you seeing all those extra letters? It’s not fancy to mispronounce words.

[@mikeatfreo2112]

@David Bliss; I can't now remember the pronounciation of the material in the video. However, you ask where the extra letters come from and I notice that your post is short on letters. In English we spell it "Aluminium" and pronounce it accordingly. I have noticed that there are other nationalities that attempt to use our language but struggle with real English spelling and pronounciation. The real purpose, of language, is communication and so the important issue is that the message is clearly understood rather than the way it is spelt or pronounced.

[@simonhantler8062]

@@mikeatfreo2112 well said

[@crapisnice]

its better a castle ship of gold worth 3 trillion to show off in the marinas and "poor countries" ports

[@paulopolonio]

None of the above...get a Multihull :)

[@normancook4620]

😊 38:14