Divide and Conquer Faction Power Rankings (Tiermaker Tierlist)

Рет қаралды 4,436

Күн бұрын

#gaming #tierlist #subscribe #tiermaker #medieval #medieval2totalwar #medieval2 #medieval2tw #totalwar #divideandconquer #middleearth #lotr #lotrgames #thelordoftherings
Discord:
/ discord
Instagram:
/ wolflafytofficial

Пікірлер: 52

@Owlr4ider 2 ай бұрын

Goblins of Moria are also stronger than you give them credit for. The black pit units aren't bad at all for an evil faction, and they have the best wargs in the entire game(and most variety of warg units, cavalry is king remember?). In fact their elite warg cavalry is a top 10 cavalry unit in the entire mod, mostly thanks to the wargs' bonus against horses so they do exceptionally well against other cavalry units, and being lancers means they're perfectly built for the classic cycle charging tactic. Still 1 of the weakest factions for sure, but they do have some actual strengths beyond just quantity(which is a quality of its own) and some surprisingly good units. In terms of ranking still D or C tier as they're still 1 of the weaker factions, just saying it's not nearly as bad as you, and most people to be fair, think of the faction. Speaking of which, Dorwinion is not a D tier faction! Their unit roster is incredibly solid and I don't agree with your issue of elf side having good units but bad economy and human side good economy but bad units. Human side gives them elite cavalry, which is actually pretty good and helps close the gap between the human and elf choices. As for the economy, the region of Dorwinion itself is quite rich, and if you did a good job expanding early on you shouldn't really have money issues even if you did go the elf route. Would have been a solid B tier roster Imho if you had access to their full roster. However due to the choice maybe relegated to C tier as you can't have their elven archers and pikemen as well as their human elite cavalry together, something most factions can do. Still there's a lot of potential for the faction if you're decently skilled, as in you can at least hold off Rhun early on while expanding elsewhere, if not outright killing them(you need to be a good player for that). Rhun's roster is powerful, yes, but for an evil faction. It's not nearly as strong as most of the good factions nor is it on the same level as Isengard/Gundabad. Their starting position, needing to reunite the tribes and all that, means it actually takes them quite a while to get going. When you do they can get pretty powerful as their starting area around the Rhunish lake is quite rich and Dorwinion isn't too hard to kill. However after Dorwinion by the time you make it to your other enemies they would have already had plenty of time to build up and expand so you'll be facing quite powerful armies from the likes of Erebor and Dale. B tier seems much more appropriate than A. Khand seems appropriate at B being so cavalry focused, and in the desert where siege battles are few and far between, unlike say Rohan, and of course they have those rich gold mine provinces on the eastern edge of the map. Yes the quest is quite difficult, but it is manageable if you're decently skilled and once you past that it's off to the races. Your biggest hurdle Imho is that if you stayed evil you simply have nowhere to expand to beyond your initial rebel expansion and wherever you do end up conquering(Dol Amroth, Gondor, Dorwinion, High Elves, etc) you'll have massive corruption penalties and of course those factions would have had a long time to build up and expand, and you'll run into the same issue as Rohan of being forced to fight a lot of sieges with a cavalry centric army. Going the blue wizard route is ironically the easier path Imho as it's much easier to expand into Harad, Rhun and Mordor's backside and your corruption penalties wouldn't be as bad. Of course going with the blue wizards means Mordor could abandon Gondor and send their endless hordes at you instead, but as long as you fight them on the field your cavalry heavy army should easily wipe the floor with them. Completely agree with you on Harad, a very difficult start and while their unit roster is decently powerful, it's not nearly as powerful as to justify their insanely hard start. I mean Mumakils are OP as hell, but it's a massive struggle to get them and when you do you can only recruit them in like 2 or 3 regions so you'll never be able to get a lot of them, and they're still vulnerable to missile fire and to a lesser extent pikemen, though they easily handle halberds, spearmen and whatever other melee infantry that has anti cavalry bonuses, so while OP they're still far from unkillable and are insanely hard to replenish/replace. Would actually drop them to D because of this. High Elves weaker than Isengard and Ar Ardunaim? What? They have the strongest(but also most expensive) roster in the entire game. I agree that for new and/or auto resolve happy players they're not nearly as easy, if you actually play your battles manually and use proper tactics, than you will get an insane mileage out of their roster. The strongest faction hands down at the hands of a skilled player, but not nearly as easy as say Angmar. Already talked about my stance on Rohan but that's neither here nor there, so definitely High Elves and Angmar as top 2 factions, 1 for best roster but requires some skill to make the most out of, the other for easiest start(and well rounded roster). Ered Luin's start is also insanely easy but the unit roster isn't nearly as well rounded and starting off in a corner, while safe, also means it's harder to get to your actual enemies(and when you do they've already built up a significant amount). Lothlorien and Woodland Realms both A tier Imho. Their unit rosters, while not as good as the High Elves, are still incredibly powerful, and archery is very easy to get a lot of mileage out of, and as the player it's really not that hard(just tiresome) to kick Dol Guldur out of Mirkwood and than you choose between merging the 2 realms(getting a bunch of provinces for free) or an incredibly powerful unique building, an insanely powerful tier 3 unit(some of the best in the entire game, especially the Woodland Realms' one) and of course the ents(which IIRC you can technically also get by merging, but only in Isengard itself after conquering it). Also their generals are insanely powerful in the early game, amazing archers with good melee stats once you run out of arrows make for a killer combination against the hordes of trash the evil factions will send your way. Also I don't see Gundabad as a major issue for the Woodland Realm. Their archer heavy style is perfect to counter those big lumbering orcs as well as their wargs, trolls and whatnot. They also have those insane 70 range armor piercing longbows, basically their javelin replacements, to deal with problematic high armored infantry units(and maybe the armored trolls too) that don't fall easily to regular archer fire. Also due to the distance between you and the other factions in the way, Gundabad will never send the bulk of its armies against you, unless everyone else(Anduin Vale and Erebor at the very least) already died, at which point it's pretty late in the game and your position should already be incredibly powerful.

@Morphologicallyy 3 күн бұрын

I think thats one of the longest comments, ive ever seen on yt

@markjoslin4684 2 ай бұрын

The Anduin Vale was reworked for v5, as with Dunland and Enedwaith. AV has a tough early game, but you have a cavalry archer general in Framsburg, and the skinchanger bodyguards are extremely good against the Goblins. AV’s late game units are fairly underpowered though

@wolflaf911 2 ай бұрын

Hence why I think they didn’t do enough

@Omuraisu0 2 ай бұрын

I would personally contest Dorwinion's placement but this is probably my bias for Dorwinion speaking lol. Big bonus is that none of the elves are locked to areas of recruitment, so you have full access to your elven roster everywhere you go. Unfortunately the hybrid elf-men Dorwinion Infantry and Dorwinion Armsmen units are locked to specific Dorwinion homeland regions but I think it warrants that Dorwinion can be placed on the high B, or low A tier. Even if you go with men in the military, you have plenty of armor piercing to make up for your lack in raw stats, never mind Dorwinion's economy letting you field hordes of the mid-tier Regent units.

@wolflaf911 2 ай бұрын

Ye they’re not horrid, playable it’s just not as easy as some of the others

@Omuraisu0 2 ай бұрын

@@wolflaf911 that's completely fair honestly, I wrote my comment about my feelings towards the roster as a whole but I didn't really take into account that you would be fighting Rhun with the Thorn units as your mainline for much of it, and trying to squeeze in the elves when your budget is tight can get challenging

@FuFightersStudio 2 ай бұрын

@@Omuraisu0 to be fair considering the amount of Crossbows in your army, if you can make them pull their weight they fuck Rhun hard with that armor piercing.

@krevonalet-martson2008 18 күн бұрын

I'm just playing dorwinion ampaign in v5 right now, I allied rhun from the start, picked elves and destroyed dol guldur with avalyn by turn 50 with 15 regions and 100k in bank, now I can attack rhun and mordor whenever I want, dale is okay with being just a trading partner.

@wolflaf911 17 күн бұрын

@@krevonalet-martson2008if you ally with rhun you’re easily the most powerful faction in the game

@moncro1871 2 ай бұрын

Perfect timing bro I was just watching the old one because I just got into the mod and I see this video right under it

@wolflaf911 2 ай бұрын

Thank you, it was definitely a more objective take on the faction rankings and I’m glad to see you enjoyed it

@Sarcasmses Ай бұрын

I'm an old Third Age player who just started DaC so this is neat to see. I'm shocked to see Rhun rated so highly. They were my favorite faction in original TA but they feel so much weaker in DaC, in fact their whole faction was like a bait and switch. In TA, Rhun is a cavalry based faction with a strong infantry core. They had a heavy cav bodyguard of Loke Innas Rim that were crucial in fighting the dwarfs and expanding early on. They could get quickly get Variag horse archer mercs for kiting Dale and Dwarfs. In DaC Rhun is now an infantry faction with an infantry bodyguard and no cavalry in sight. The Variags have been broken off into their own faction which sometimes turns against you. You have multiple strong factions nearby and the turn 2 script makes them all much stronger than you. I have no idea how to even begin with Rhun, their lack of horses cripples their expansion, but you said they are very easy. What am I missing? I played Variags instead and found them extremely easy. No enemies threaten you and Dol Amroth causes trouble for Harad and the pirate people. I haven't had the opportunity to turn on Sauron, but the Variag starting lands are fantastically wealthy once mines are up and I was able to take Minas Tirith on turn 32 by rushing Gondor with a small group of horse archers - something that Rhun was able to do in TA but not in DaC.

@wolflaf911 Ай бұрын

Bruh it’s not that deep, just take 4 settlements and you can match dorwinion. And the variags never go for mattaraham.

@Sarcasmses Ай бұрын

@@wolflaf911 Well that wasn't helpful. I'll figure it out on my own.

@wolflaf911 Ай бұрын

just get the script done and start spamming good units and abuse your chariots

@kristaskrastina2863 2 ай бұрын

I think an Anduin campaign is always a challenge: how to break off the siege. It may be fun - I've seen people who actually liked that tightened setup. I wouldn't say it's unplayable - but yes, it may be insanely hard. I played as Anduin in v4.6 and it was interesting. But I got very lucky there because Gundabad blundered and let me take its capital on turn 3 or so. Later Khamul The Moron got himself killed (he attacked Rhosgobel with a very small army) so I could go offensive on DG too. An Angmar campaign - yep, I agree with you. It seems too plain and boring. Killing Angmar as ND or Bree is much more fun. I don't think Angmar should be nerfed though - we just need more stuff going on (Gundabad's betrayal maybe?)

@wolflaf911 2 ай бұрын

No campaign should be based off luck to succeed, Anduin needs a rework and I think angmar could be fixed with one fewer settlements in the auto expansion and just weaker units/ more strong opponents

@kristaskrastina2863 2 ай бұрын

@@wolflaf911 I wouldn't say luck is absolutely necessary for Anduin - you just need a good plan with minimum flaws while executing it. Like good Khand (yes, a cavalry powerhouse - but an insane setup with all your neighbours turning against you), like DG (Eru knows how I cheesed every opponent as DG...). As for Angmar, I'd say it's boring rather than OP. I have very few problems fighting against its armies - and I'm horrendous at DaC. So the units shouldn't be nerfed. But more opponents - yes, exactly! I've just realised that all Angmar opponents (ND, Bree, High Elves) are passive and very rarely go offensive. That's why this faction is so easy despite having a lot of enemies.

@wolflaf911 2 ай бұрын

It’s at least 50% lucky with anduin in my opinion which means that no matter how good you are it’s a coin flip on how you’ll do in the campaign

@Paulsinke 2 ай бұрын

Dude I'm just glad someone else plays this game, I don't agree completely (goblins of moria are awesome, throw snagas at anything before you hit it with your main army) but also I didn't make my own whole ass video about it. Cheers!

@wolflaf911 2 ай бұрын

I think they are a capable faction, Id just say overall compared to others they have a slightly more difficult path to victory because of their limited unit capability, but thank you for watching the whole video

@DimitarFCBM 2 ай бұрын

Very nice video and I agree with most of the ranking, but I've a question. Are those good Byzantium anti cavalry units in the room with us?

@wolflaf911 2 ай бұрын

THEYRE ALWAYS WATCHING

@AntonioM95 28 күн бұрын

I painted the map with Mordor, it was super fun

@wolflaf911 28 күн бұрын

Superpower of a faction

@jeannedarc3440 2 ай бұрын

Angmar used to be the bane of my existence when i played ND and High elves, but when i found out that they are incapable of defending their core 3 settlements (Carn dum, Mount Gram, and Litash) im now convinced that they arent really a threat and are more of an annoyance. Mount Gram is also one of the easiest maps to defend, since its like the Ost Sul but with a better archer platform Honestly isengard is way scarier than Angmar

@wolflaf911 2 ай бұрын

Angmar is almost impossible to defeat as anyone besides high elves and gundabad is the issue

@Owlr4ider 2 ай бұрын

Yes, cavalry is king in medieval 2, except for sieges. Rohan's biggest issue is that their infantry is hot garbage so when you're forced to fight a siege battle, be it offensively or defensively, you're screwed. Field battles are obviously important, but unless you like sieging settlements for a whole bunch of turns wasting time and money(upkeep) than you will inevitably have to fight sieges, where that amazing cavalry of yours becomes a massive hindrance. Yes, you can cheese the AI in a variety of ways(which some would call exploits) so if that's your jam than yeah you can avoid siege battles altogether and Rohan is indeed insane, but if you don't do that than sieges(both on offense and defense) are the bane of Rohan's existence. Dol Amroth has arguably even better cavalry than Rohan(especially in the elite tier, maybe not in the lower tiers but still close) but also significantly better infantry so they're truly godlike. Khand also suffers from rather poor infantry to my recollection but their geography means they will be fighting a lot more field battles than siege due to being smack down in the middle of the desert and all that. Brie's early game roster is indeed surprisingly strong, carried by trash tier pikemen which are insane in this mod due to the removal of pikemen's secondary weapon, but other than that their roster, especially their elite units, are extremely underwhelming. So pretty powerful, and incredibly safe, early on but awfully mediocre later on though with some highlights(mercenary route mostly). Would not give it an S tier at all, in fact would give a C tier, maybe B due to the ease of their starting position, considering the way you ranked the other factions. Those other opinions you mentioned are probably abusing their early game pikemen speed run style, and that's indeed very powerful but that's not really what your rankings are about. Dunland's roster is actually quite powerful, especially for an evil faction, with top tier elite pikemen(top 10 in the entire mod) and some other highlights. Enedwaith has insane javelins, but that's all they have. Very powerful early on(but at that point you're uniting the clans) so by the time you're fighting real enemies they've already had plenty of time to build up into their higher quality units. Also regular archers(especially Elven and the good human ones like rangers) are the bane of their existence, of which there are many factions. Also due to their lack of armor the standard heavily armored sword and board unit also gives them a lot of issues late game unless you manage to throw all your javelins into their backside(not always possible depending on map layout and army compositions, also impossible in sieges) and your own line infantry isn't nearly good enough to hang in there. I mean it's still a very doable campaign, no campaign(even Anduin Vale which you again underestimated) is impossible, but in terms of faction power they're 1 of the weaker ones not strongest. Dol Guldur is better than you give them credit for. Firstly their faction leader is Khamul the Easterling who has a cavalry bodyguard(and 1 of the best ones at that) so he alone can solo quite a few early game armies. Secondly you have the poison arrow + Nazgul cheese(though not an exploit as morale is a legitimate mechanic) of stacking morale debuffs to quickly route your enemies(very few truly elite units that can withstand it in the early game) and you can slaughter whatever didn't run away. Thirdly I find archers to be the best unit type to spam hordes of trash of, that's to say that trash archers are way more useful than trash infantry(there is no trash cavalry to compare with) so even if you do fill your armies with hordes of trash(which you don't have to do at all) you will still get a decent mileage out of them. Fourthly their geography is actually pretty good, you have plenty of rebel provinces to expand into and your neighbors aren't going to pose much of a threat to you early on. In fact you're likely going to be the one taking the fight to them, and the AI actually does a very poor job with the Elven factions(worst than the others Imho due to their quality over quantity approach). Lastly they do actually have some pretty good elite units, and those spiders can be insanely powerful if microed well. Would give them a B tier at the very least if not A, especially if taking into account the starting position not just the unit roster.

@wolflaf911 2 ай бұрын

As Rohan your main enemy is Isengard where cavalry can still be used to great effect along with isemouth being easy to take

@Owlr4ider 2 ай бұрын

@@wolflaf911 Of course, but after rushing Isengard the campaign is still not over. You still have to take the required amount of provinces at the very least and that typically means getting bogged down in sieges. Especially when you're doing well as the more momentum you get the more defensive the AI becomes thus the less field battles you continue to get. Again unless you cheese the AI into sallying out of cities using a variety of methods which some would consider exploits.

@paolomesterom6899 2 ай бұрын

Nice video man!

@TheSpearman-vt3nb Ай бұрын

putting ND in C is wild to me. you can tell this man loves his infantry. i couldnt listen to the stream only look at the rankings real fast. ill be back when i can

@wolflaf911 Ай бұрын

I'm a sucker for infantry and calvary, archers are just too vulnerable in a faction like that

@Sanvone 7 сағат бұрын

While I always was saying that Angmar is easier that most community thought I'm kinda lost of why you placed them so far and then kept disregarding many things that make them great (hillmen+thralls, inability of HE and ND to match your pace of taking attrition, openess of Eregion as the whole encouraging hyper aggresivness). I'm curious for what your reasons are as Eregion is still depopulated. Rohan - much worse that it seems. Arguably the worst Northmen faction. Why would you need elite cavalry when everything it does is also done to the same extent by mid-tier cavalry that is more cost efficient? Rohan infantry and archers are bottom tier among their culture. High Elves - while they got too many toys as modding team favourite child, they have issues. Their archers are initially the worst among elves. They suffer the most from being overpriced, which makes spamming them every 3-4 turns from single province much less feasible unless you exploit AI via diplomacy for cash. Rushing Angmar first (By turn 50) is quite fun though. Gundabad - not sure why you consider them so highly when you put other orc factions lower. You have less numbers for the same playstyle of melee rushing cause your armor is bad Northern Dunedain - Angmar doesn't matter as long as you hold Ost-Sul. Or did AI changed and AI bypasses all regions to attack your undefended settlements in the back? Dol Goldur and Moria - This what I don't get. You seem to not realise how good swarming is but you put Angmar in S tier. DG gets nasty ranged units that pose some of the highest kill powers across game. Both factions got unneeded "I-win-buttons" with new spiders/wargs. Moria also has Mounted Crossbows and Halberds. Both units absolutely shred everything in game while your cheapest and most numerous meatshield tanks. You don't even need them as long as you remember to surround from inside enemy unit formation, because then only units immune to being hit-locked can fight back. I had many fights where I lose less goblins than enemy utilizing elven archers by the end. Anduin Vale - while I agree that they are not in good place, that is for reasons different that showcased. We were arguing on discord that new recruitment system absolutely shafted AV. Imagine building not cheap barracks to get access to your shitty militia after which you pick which 1/3 of your roster you will have in each province. Which translates in your provinces producing around half the units every 10 turns compared to other factions. Yes they improved their replenishment but it was like by -1 or -2 turns, which is clearly (looking at AI performance) not enough. AV was in weird place - there was no dream to be had about this faction. It was also the strongest faction that community was not playing in previous version as you had both swarming capability and quality that orcs could only dream off. The best combination of guilds across wildmen, access to slingers, the best melee infantry under 1000 florens (Eotheod Footmen - who only were worse that Uruk Infantries for top spots across game for that price range). I refuse to believe they are unplayable as your issues seem like poor campaign map approach. Fromsburg (or whatever the north-western region is called) is basically unconquerable for Snorcs if you move hobbit slingers and some extra bows with meatshields (6-8 units will suffice). You basically get 500-600 kills for hobbits every battle that is easy to arrange to have a straight line of fire on enemy while they fight your sacrifice units. In that time you can steamroll both Goblin town and later Dol Goldur with general stacking. The same way you can keep killing DG Nazguls with other stone throwers in Rhosgobel and small garrison. IRC you have like 3-4 Generals Guards with ability giving +50% combat efficiency (that stacks) + good archers and since version 5.0 also good starting cavalry skirmishers. Not even saying about initial Beorning 2handers that while much less spammable, still are top Charge Infantry under 1000 florens that will always pay for itself and works as frontline. The problem was small economic retinue pool and corruption fighting capability. They somewhat alleviated it from what I heard. Problem is nobody likes AV now, as they are not up to par with other "civilised factions" T2/T3 units and you are worse in early game (that always was problematic as you start with 2-3 enemies so your amazing early game is sacrificed to kill them; but if you can overcome that difficult curve and keep crazy pace it really is fun). The fix was also proposed not only by me but few other players on discord - either delete first barrack or add more units to it, so you can spam something useful by rebuilding it.

@wolflaf911 6 сағат бұрын

Anduin vale is dogshit it terms of power and also angmar is just op and needs to be tuned down with ai, also whatever you say about Rohan doesn’t matter, they have Calvary and Calvary is king in med 2

@mszalans4817 22 күн бұрын

Actually, AV is my favourite faction right now. I used to favor Ar Ardunaim, but it turned out that AV has the most entertaining campaign for me. I like their units, diversity of their enemies and overall motive. The only drawback is that they fight a lot in the Mirkwood and I don't like forest battlemaps, you don't see shit down there. If you all in Gundabad from turn 1 the campaign is not even that hard. I think I have similar hate feelings towards Dol Amroth as you have towards Angmar. Playing as DA Knights of the Silver Scum almost feels like cheating. They just steamroll everything, inluding spears and halberds. And AI DA almost always kicks Harad, AA and Khand out of Harondor. OP shit.

@wolflaf911 20 күн бұрын

I just find AV to be a bit weak because my luck always is that Mirkwood focused me a ton. And as always with DA Calvary is king

@haptorripman1228 2 ай бұрын

Quick question, what difficulty do you play on? I normally love playing as the dwarves and you said you could conquer by 20 turns after reaching Khazad-Dum. But I run into recruitment problems and can’t amass an army big enough to go up and still hold the other settlements.

@wolflaf911 2 ай бұрын

Very hard difficulty, and that’s just my experience in general. I also generally siege down the settlements to amass more wealth and deplete the enemy garrison

@haptorripman1228 2 ай бұрын

@@wolflaf911 ohhhh ok, i roleplay like a loser and dont seige for long cause i personally think its kinda cheap way to do it lol. and i play very hard too.

@wolflaf911 2 ай бұрын

It’s definitely a way to make the campaign more challenging, I just see no point in not sieging if I’m just playing for fun

@jaqubi9624 2 ай бұрын

hello! I'm playing Lothlorien but can't make allies with Woodland elves to start the script. Any idea what can help me to make them agree allies?

@wolflaf911 2 ай бұрын

It could be a luck based thing, I’m not entirely sure, have you tried offering them the standard (map info, gold, trade rights etc?) if they still don’t after forever it could just be that rng didn’t go your way and you might have to restart as annoying as it might sound, you could also give them gifts to improve relations.

@Sanvone 8 сағат бұрын

They like 20.000 gold before turn 40-50. Usually does the trick. It is kind of tight to squeeze all the expenses for the first 50 turns because of that and maxing both settlements and army size but is doable.