Divorce and Neurodiverse Relationships - Featuring

[@imautisticnowwhat]

Thank you both for this beautiful, vulnerable conversation. I teared up when Taylor talked about how it felt like half of her died. She’s setting such an incredible example for her children and she should be so incredibly proud of her strength ♥️

[@MomontheSpectrum]

thank you for saying this 🥹

[@orionkelly]

Meg, you and Tay should collab. You're both amazing!

[@imautisticnowwhat]

@@orionkelly That's so kind 😭YOU'RE both amazing! I'd absolutely love that 💛

[@imautisticnowwhat]

@@MomontheSpectrum it's true!! 💛

[@orionkelly]

@@imautisticnowwhat what’s the best way for us to contact you directly?

[@johnathanrhoades7751]

The best line: “I am enjoying this conversation to the extent that I can enjoy talking about trauma”. Divorce always sucks whether it’s for the best or not. Thank you for talking about it!

[@MomontheSpectrum]

💓

[@mattk7795]

I am a damn good partner. I am loyal. I am respectful. I am kind. I am empathic. I am empathetic. I am self-sacrificing. I love taking care of other people. I love connecting with other people. I love remembering important things. I love being intentional. I am a freaking good partner, and I know who I am and I know what I bring to a relationship is awesome and I'm really proud of that. Thanks for that!

[@MomontheSpectrum]

You're welcome!! 🥰

[@binesart]

If your partner tells you, this all is unfortunately really not enough and you never succeeded in this, it is time to leave 🎉

[@AR-lz2br]

She expresses like a neuro typical being aware of what she really feels emotionally and psychologically. Something that autistic find it difficult to even explain in detail.

[@susantalebzadeh9741]

You truly are!

[@chipoxi]

She left out affectionate and passionate. What she doesn’t explain here is that a part of ND is the coldness… not intentional but after lots of research. ND people don’t tend to have physical needs like NPs which unfortunately leads to a lot of broken relationships and divorces. Even so they feel love. They tend to stray from intimacy. I’ve done my research… I’ve overcome these challenges but is a part that is usually left out of the conversation because it ultimately doesn’t suit there point…

[@gillb9222]

I was in a meltdown and said to my husband of 20 years 'you dont love me do you?' Totally expecting him to say 'of coursr I do' and he just looked at me and said 'no'. I had no idea our marriage was in trouble. I knew we had had a rough couple of months because we were going through financial issues but I thought we were solid and I expected that we would get through it. I was so shocked I just didnt process it at all, I just shut off. I lost so much of myself in that moment, my identity was so tied up in the mask that came along with being married to him and our life together. My mask was shattered, and it was a mask that may not have bren me but I was comfortable in it and I knew how to navigate life much better within that mask. I remember crying in a clothes shop because I didnt even know what I wore. He wasnt controlling at all but my mask was gone so I didnt know who I was anymore.

[@fionam7768]

You will, I promise. Seek some professional help, from providers experienced with n-div. He may have been doing his best, but so are you, then and now. It *is* hard, seemingly unbearably do, but I believe in you. People say all kinds of things when they are exhausted and emotional, but whatever he said and says does not invalidate what you have been to each other all this time, nor you'd worth and value just in being you exactly as you are. Know I'm sending love and strength your way ❤❤❤❤

[@gillb9222]

@@fionam7768 you are such a lovely person and I thank k you from the bottom of my heart for your kind words. My ex and I split 14 years ago now and it has been quite a journey. I found out that I am autistic and have ADHD and I have grown so much in that time. I have a really nice relationship with my ex. We co-parented very effectively and we have remained friends. I have moved away and he sometimes works up here and we meet up for dinner when he is here, it's nice. It is so hard to come out of a long term relationship, it does knock you for six. However I think it can also be a really good thing. We could have carried on with the relationship based on friendship but he had another relationship now and seems happy and I realised I was aroace and am very happy alone. He wanted a relationship and, I think if I was honest, I didn't really, I just happened to find someone who put up with me lol. I think the lesson is that no matter how much you hurt and how hard it seems, you do heal. It does take time sometimes and it can hurt like you wouldn't believe (or just be really shocking) but we do heal.

[@Rowganlife]

so sorry.

[@neurofemcollectiveskool]

This was me 3yrs ago, I was married for 22yrs and we have a 5yo and a 14yo. It’s been a challenge, because the masked version of myself was a great and very agreeable wife. Married at 19, he was 10yrs my senior, and we met during my first year in the military. Please know this, you are not alone! 💜💫🙏🏽

[@gillb9222]

@divergewithdevelda it does make it easier with someone there to give a focus doesn't it? I've been on my own now for 14 years and with the kids all grown up I have to find myself, at last, as my 'wife' then 'mum' masks are gone now so its just 'me' now. I'm actually, finally, excited about it but it has definitely been a roller-coaster. I wish you luck darling, I'm sure you will rock this. The kids are lucky to have you

[@meganfp1061]

As a neurodiverse woman, I so agree that our intuition being repressed in a relationship is so awful 😕

[@eleonorelee267]

Yeeeah. Definitely. Masking your way through a relationship resonated. It means just not being yourself, ever. It is exhausting. It can make you wonder if your partner loves the real you that is hiding somewhere inside or the masked version. As a late diagnosed person, I realize that the aspects of my personality that are frequently problematic in our relationship are my autistic traits. I cannot say that makes me feel safe, or "allowed" to be myself. Especially since now, as I try to honor my needs and autistic self it is making a lot of my family (old and new) pretty angry/impatient. Yeah, repression sucks

[@brianwilliams446]

​@eleonorelee267 I'm going through this right now. Can a person really be in love with me when they spend most of their time frustrated with parts of me that I can't control. I'm not allowed to stim, I have to watch everything I say, I can't ask too many questions if I don't understand something. Can't be too silly or hyperactive. And when I bring it up I just get told she's never going to love/understand/care for these parts of me. And I get told, "you wouldn't expect me to love your cancer if you had it, so why expect me to love you autism/Adhd".

[@ashleylovepace1941]

I think it is very important to remember that it is traumatic for the neurotypical partner as well. Especially with a partner who has masked their whole marriage. Coming to learn a new personality can be alarming. Yes, it is just that a neurodiverse person should be free to allow themselves to be real, but we can't expect anyone to accept us as we are if it isn't who they thought we would were. It's like getting to know a new person in some ways. I have 2 autistic children and have since realized since my divorce that my ex and I both have autistic traits. Neither of us knew it. We both blamed the other. The biggest take away I have is that we can't expect anyone to be anything. We must be grateful for everyday and what we have and try to take care of ourselves while giving space to others.

[@sydneylr621]

I agree. The part about your needs not being met when ND also hits home as a NT. Both are trying to meet needs of the other person but often involves sacrifices (masking perhaps by ND, and not asking for things important emotionally). Sometimes it seems like both people end up hurt.

[@crystalclear6864]

I am watching this as a neuro typical older person who wants to understand adult autistic . Learning sooooo much here. Thank you( both)

[@MomontheSpectrum]

Thanks for the feedback and for spending time to better understand the autistic community!

[@keylanoslokj1806]

Thanks for some empathy effort. Its appreciated.

[@crystalclear6864]

@@keylanoslokj1806 good content, presented from the heart❤️

[@Nickface81]

My heart goes our to you Taylor! I was the "crazy" one in my divorce. Rebuilding my life has been a shit show chocked full of struggle. I am currently starting asd diagnostics, I'm coming to finally accept that my reality was and IS valid.

[@MomontheSpectrum]

good i'm so glad you're learning your reality is valid. It can definitely make you feel crazy and like you don't know which way is up. It can take a while to rebuild but it's such an important investment in yourself. Keep going!

[@TheJessamynklinker]

This hit home. 5 years ago I divorced my ex of 10 years. It was a traumatic experience, so much change all at once and it hasn’t been easy for my 2 kids either. My ex gaslighted me throughout the divorce and even texted my parents to tell them I was crazy and wasn’t suited to be a mother. Part of the problem was I was so overwhelmed by parenting because he expected me to do everything myself. I’m really happy that life worked out for her; for me, my divorced made my life much more difficult. I’m happy not being with my ex because he was cruel, but everyone (including my therapist) kept promising life would get easier but it hasn’t. Single parenting feels debilitating as does trying to take care of myself. Also I have ASD/ADHD

[@susantalebzadeh9741]

You can do it! Get as much support as possible! Access resources!

[@charlottemckenzie5259]

doing all the parenting and wifey duties without your partner meeting your needs is A LOT. it sounds like you were a single mother within the marriage. I'm glad you're out. get support from you friends and family. create a new family living situation. I would love with family or friends if I get divorced.

[@magicalsimmy]

“I masked my way through my marriage” is something I can relate to so profoundly. I was only allowed to be sad and never allowed to be angry even though my partner was angry all the time. I wasn’t allowed to show what I was feeling or there would be retaliation, name calling and blame. My former partner was great at being right in every disagreement even when they were wrong, and I would see that days later after I had processed it. “Your reality matters” a “being too sensitive is not crazy” really resonates with me, because in my former marriage, only their reality mattered, and I had all but disappeared into that. I also understand how she can seem so together on screen, but have a lot of processing and non-functional days. I went through a divorce followed by the death of a parent, and there are some days I don’t even leave my bed over a year later.

[@bes03c]

There is give and take in relationships. Both partners should support each other. My wife needs me to show affection so I do more than I would on my own. I need alone time from time to time to stay sane so she makes sure I get it. Expecting a partner to only give is a recipe for failure.

[@willek1335]

You understand it, from an NT. My new AS partner is rigidly rejecting my feelings. Probably due to their insecurity, but it feels like stonewalling and gaslighting to my eyes. We're awesome in a LOT of other ways, but I strongly feel this is may be a silent killer down the road. I'm tired.

[@katie1353]

Thank you both for this video. So much of this hits me where it hurts. My ex-husband and I got together when I was 16, and were together 15 years when we split in 2016. We have two kids. I will be the first to admit I wasn't an easy person to be married to, but that entire time I was undiagnosed autistic/ADHD and constantly struggling to keep up with the expectations being placed on me ("she can do it, why cant you?" etc). Our marriage would have ended anyway but in the end he sealed the deal by cheating. He's now re-married, and the woman he cheated with is now our kids' step-mum. As a couple, we were part of a wider friendship group of 4 other couples, including two school friends of mine, one of which was my best friend since I was 14 and bridesmaid at our wedding. I lost them all in the split, and in ways I still feel were unfair and I can't fully comprehend - like the fact that my ex didn't have the kids overnight for 7 months post-split so had all the freedom in the world to see our friends but I couldn’t, but the friends saw that as me not making the effort (despite me arranging to see them the very first night the kids stayed with their Dad). My kids still see the friendship group a lot and tell me about their "auntie" (my ex-best friend) and how her and her fiancé finally got married and all these other things. It's been so difficult being cut out of so many people's lives that my kids are still a part of, it's the most bizarre and hurtful thing. But I let the kids talk to me about them and show interest despite the hurt because I know they need that from me. You defintiely lose more than one relationship in a divorce. But you also gain in the end. I made friendships with people who truly valued me, and I spent time learning how to value myself and be happy alone. This then led to me being in a better place to meet my boyfriend, who has supported me through my diagnoses and we have just celebrated 5 years together. Sure, we have our ups and downs like all couples, but it is different and we are learning to support and respect each others' differences and needs and he's my most favourite person in the whole world (expect for my kids but they get their own category of favourite anyway). Anyway, sorry for the long reply, I could probably write a whole essay on this video but I'm holding back!

[@Ben_79]

Warning about counseling: make sure the person is familiar with or better yet has a solid understanding of Neurodiversity/Autism.

[@cordeliahobbs8595]

Yes, please. I learned of my autism while going thru marriage counseling. He (counselor) told me that autism was just a label. Crushed, more garbage to sift thru...

[@SherryMcDonaldD]

2 weeks ago, after 2 years of couples therapy, my NT husband and I decided it was time to divorce. I’m 52 and was officially diagnosed 3 months ago. I’d also masked myself through my 16 year relationship. And I’m continuing to look forward to being met and seen by myself and others ❤ thank you for sharing your journey with us, Taylor. You seemed to be in my head!

[@deborahparnell8862]

First word that came to my mind when starting to share my comment..DAMN!!!!..every single word from both of you beautiful humans just hit me like.....DAMN!!!..this is what my deepest yearning has been crying out for..answers to questions I've not even been able to verbalize..deep deep feelings..so..thank you both for helping me to want to keep on keepin on..there is no amount of money that could pay for what you did for me just now..may your desires be fully met in every way..I freakin love you both from the entirety of my stinkin precious heart..my first order of the day for me today..laugh..❤ ty..xoxo

[@MomontheSpectrum]

i'm so glad the video has been helpful to you. stay the course and take it one step at a time!! you've got this.

[@ThesaurusToblerone]

I think gender roles in neurodiverse x neutotypical relationships are very interesting. For Taylor, how she was socialised as a woman was probably a big factor in neglecting her own neurodivergent needs. BUT in a relationship where the man is neurodivergent and the woman is neurotypical, there is a real danger of the neurotypical woman neglecting her own needs to accomodate her neurodivergent partner because of gender roles. I wish this was discussed more.

[@binesart]

Very interesting thought

[@jorinde85]

"you don't want that for your kids" absolutely! Divorced about 5 years ago, only later found out that my son is autistic, I am self-diagnosed and so is my ex. We get along much better now that we're not in a romantic relationship, but it remains hard for our children, especially my son, to miss someone all the time. It's not what you plan for your life, and definitely not for your children, even if it's better than the alternative of staying together.

[@melauvache7755]

I am not autistic but I absolutely relate to the emotions and sadness related to divorce and having to share custody of my children. I am very fascinated by autism as I work with autistic children. A very raw honest conversation. Thank you

[@josephineramirez2826]

I married. However I 'm separated with my husband and I planning to divorce in the future and it finally great to hear this information. Thank you guys!❤it.

[@rossitsa5371]

Taylor, I am a NT woman and I absolutely resonate with you. I didn’t have to mask my way through my marriage, but every word you said is exactly what I experienced. I was married to a man I strongly suspect is on the spectrum. Thank you for sharing.

[@nataliesirota2611]

I went through a divorce in my early 30's (long before my recent diagnosis) and it was so difficult, especially without family support! I am standing with you in spirit! Stay strong!

[@issofsar]

I truly appreciate you having a non scripted talk. I'm a 49 year old mom of 3 and was just diagnosed a few months ago with ASD level 2. I've unfortunately been divorced 3 times. I had no idea why I couldn't keep a relationship going. It's devastating and confusing. I'm on the other side now too. I now know I need to take care of me and my kids. Thank you both so much.

[@AusTim83]

Going through this myself, separeted 9 months ago after years of feeling undermined and invalidated. It took a welfare check by the police to push me to start seeing a psychologist who in the very first session asked if I was autistic, and so begins the process of being formally diagnosed. Struggling to find support from family as they want me to tell them what i need, no friendships, and a workplace where I am outside all the social clicks. The emotional struggle of the ex having 100% care of our daughter. The masking in marriage comment by Taylor is what resonated most in this video. Thank you both for the content as it is helping me find and understand myself as I work through this life change at 40.

[@KarenDUlrich]

12:40 "In a lot of ways I had masked my way through the marriage that I had become so small that I did not know who I was anymore" - WOW 😱YES!

[@GordonHudson]

I'm autistic, divorced and subsequently remarried. My diagnosis was a significant factor in the break up of my first marriage. I think my first wife realised I wasn't fully fixable. I think the "crazy husband" thing was a factor too. It all sounds so familiar, but many years later my three kids are grown up, happy and I have a new marriage (8 years so far). It does eventually get better.

[@cherylyoke4872]

I’m late diagnosed, have two grown children, and have been married and divorced three times. I was a working mom, a teacher and always wanted to provide for my family financially. As a result I was exhausted and had nothing left I think emotionally for a husband. I must have seemed indifferent and was often too quiet. Communication, taking the time to pay attention to each other, being fully present, I think I had so much trouble with that. I needed alone time to recharge and keep going. Now I have retired, and I have a lot of alone time, but I really don’t mind. My last divorce was devastating emotionally and I don’t plan to get married ever again.

[@t-man5196]

Wow, I loved this! Mom on the Spectrum absolutely knocked this one out of the park. Loved her disclosure and vulnerability. You're right Orion, this was obviously very brave of her!

[@katieyoung7271]

You are both two of the most important voices for our community! When you get together, magic happens. Thanks for a raw, vulnerable and oh so important conversation ❤ All my love to both of you!

[@MomontheSpectrum]

I definitely agree there is something great that happens when I partner with Orion. There's just an ease about working with him! Looking forward to more collabs and future projects together.

[@orionkelly]

100% agree

[@erikavaleries]

Thank you!! I’m divorced too & then found out my diagnoses. I haven’t known how to date again.

[@saturday.avenue]

So many of my relationships have fallen apart because of miscommunication and a lack of understanding. I never knew why, and neither did they, and nobody is to blame. You can't go back & fix things; what's gone is gone. But going forward, we can be more cognizant of ourselves and people we interact with. Being diagnosed later in life is better than never knowing at all, because not knowing is a kind of hell.

[@erikavaleries]

@@ets5697 Same. It’s much harder to find an emotionally healthy person than I realized

[@Ikas90]

That was an awesome interview to listen to. Thank you, Orion and Taylor. I appreciate the work that both of you do. Autistic people need to be heard and understood.

[@MomontheSpectrum]

You're welcome! Thank you for your comment.

[@stevencito1000]

‘We haven’t seen the examples of how we are not alone in that’ Let that sink in. At least that’s what I do, because loneliness is my achilles, or at least it was and as me being human it allways will. Steven, 56, diagnosed since 2020

[@TheCrownofJules]

Thanks for this collaboration. This was an important video for me. ❤ Gratitude ❤❤

[@orionkelly]

I really appreciate it.

[@ajmilagros]

I totally can understand the statement: “Mask my way through my marriage” - because I have done the same thing. I did not know it at the time, that was what I was doing, but now we are finished and with some reflection, I can see it for what it was. I am only freshly separated, my ex has yet to move out, (as she is waiting settlement on her apartment). I don’t actually know who I am, what i think is fun, what brings me joy! I have to find the real me. So I started to ask questions, and I sought a medical opinion on whether I was ADHD or not. After one session, my doctor told me, that I was definitely ADHD and he strongly thought that I was also Autistic. So now I am on this journey of single me, finding out who I am and navigating who is my atypical self. It is a big roller coaster. Thank you both for being so open and candid on a public platform, sharing your experiences, that are so similar to our experiences.

[@redbaron8999]

I'm so sorry you had to go through so much trauma Taylor... You are not alone!! Thank you for sharing your experience with us all here!!! Thank you Orion Kelly for this and all your valuable podcasts!!! Sharing them all!!!! I will keep all of you in my prayers 🙏🙏🙏❤️😘 Thank you dearly!!! Sandi B.B.

[@MomontheSpectrum]

Thank you for the prayers and kind words! Glad the video was helpful to you.

[@julie_uk_]

Sending solidarity to/with Taylor (AuDHD) ❤

[@100meerkats]

25 years feeling and made to feel that I should feel lucky … can’t wait to be free on my own no matter how difficult it’ll be.

[@wandagerasimek3015]

I was late diagnosed at 63 less than a year ago. I’m still trying to get my mind around it.

[@SlyFoxDB]

Thank you both so much for everything you do!! You two are my favorite content creators, you have both helped me through so much over the past 2 years since I first suspected autism shortly after finally figuring out I have adhd. Your resources have changed my life and helped me educate so many others including other non diagnosed unaware autistic folks. I got my diagnosis of ADHD-C at 31 and ASD at 32. It's been so life changing and such a relief. I'm still facing issues with discrimination at work but, this time I'm aware of what's going on and why. And thanks to resources from Taylor I've filed a report. Thank you both for doing what you do so well and with so much passion ❤

[@orionkelly]

Appreciate it.

[@timmyturner7494]

I feel exactly the same dealing with the train of thought “I was supposed to be with them every day of their childhood”. Divorced for a year now and I had so little time to be a dad the way I envisioned. For me it was really a matter of survival to get to a place of acceptance I’m there now, thankfully. I know things are different from how I think they should be, but I also know that life moves forward. I just hope I can pass down enough info for my kids to build lasting marriages.

[@ginadelfina5887]

Thank you Taylor; it was really brave of you to talk about this. I love your videos and find them so helpful and kind. And thank you Orion for a great interview.

[@saturday.avenue]

Thank you both 💟💟

[@kristofferbraddock3950]

It's so important to know you have a support system of safe people, that you know will walk alongside you to comfort you and hold you accountable. If someone is not actively engaged in your life right now in good times, they will not be there when it challenges them and makes them uncomfortable. Unfortunately, this is my life right now. I want to thank both of you for this and for your other content. I self-diagnosed earlier this year at 44, and it was because of channels like yours that I realized midway through my first known meltdown a few months later what was happening. It helped me be more accepting of what happened and not believe the narratives of tantrums or that I'm crazy.

[@marthamurphy3913]

Great episode! I have sympathy with why you are shaking, Taylor. I don't think I could have done an interview like this w/o breaking down. I went through a divorce after a 25 year marriage -- now I've been divorced more than 25 years! That marriage itself had been very difficult, so the divorce was a relief. I felt like I'd put down a huge burden. But I did lose a lot of couples friends, plus my in-laws (of 25 yrs!) completely cut me off and my parents stayed friends w/ my ex. I recovered my sense of self from that whole thing, but now I'm struggling to recover from the breakup of a 10 year relationship and it's very different. Partly because I was single for 15 years between the two relationships and felt the last one was vastly more happy and successful and based on the real me. I felt completely accepted for who I am for 10 years and now I feel very cast-off and alone at 75. No career any more. No kids to raise. I have a disability so I tire quickly, and I'm bored with myself. I've learned a lot about autism, but I'm still not sure about the whole NT vs ND thing in regard to relationships, because even neurotypical people are just so different it's hard to imagine two people being accepting and supporting of each other -- especially men and women. The "typical" American man isn't very supportive of his wife. Even NT women have a long way to go to achieve equality in relationships.

[@elysificated]

Orion,i am so impressed with your interview skills, this was really excellent.

[@orionkelly]

Thanks so much!

[@MomontheSpectrum]

I know! He's great!

[@penguinplanet1999]

Such a beautiful, brave and vulnerable conversation. Very touching and affirming. Thank you so much.

[@mattfleming86]

You could not have done this at a better time for me. Thank you both. So much.

[@MomontheSpectrum]

You're welcome. Thank you for your comment. You've got this. Sending good vibes.

[@grebyma]

Thank you so much for sharing! As an AuDHDer currently going through a divorce this made me feel like I’m not alone. When my ex and I split all my family and a few friends chose to cut me out of their lives so I’ve been doing everything alone with no support system. It’s nice to know that the storm eventually settles.

[@camellia8625]

I am sorry your family and friends haven’t shown loyalty when you needed their support the most. I hope you can manage to find new sources of support.

[@timmcdraw7568]

Thank you so much for this. I’m just starting a relationship with a allistic person. Its just over a year, but shes my first person since my adult diagnosis and so everything is so new that even a year in, our relationship still feels new. I have so many fears and insecurities in a way that I’ve never experienced - it was like i was blind before in my other relationships, always baffled, feeling attacked, taken completely by surprise by relationship events. And my sensory stuff was so foreign to me that i used to think it was my intuition - i just knew they were secretly trying to hurt me, they were insane or chaotic, but the reality was i was overstimulated or fully burnt out. Knowing im autistic and having more understanding of my responses is great, but i feel like im walking on eggshells around my own self! And im terrified of burning her out or using her as a caregiver. I know this conversation is about divorce but i found it so so helpful. Talking about these things in a candid way is something that i crave so much. I love tips and descriptions of traits and im so grateful for the wealth of these things on the internet, but im so hungry for people just navigating big things where autism is the baseline, but the conversation is a bout the thing they’re going through. You do that a lot Orion. For example your unedited video about going to Chicago and struggling w parenting, i had such empathy for you and i was so sad that you were having such a hard time, but i was also so starving for a connection with people on here like me talking form the inside in a real, human way that i wept with gratitude. This video is another one. I follow momonthespectrum , shes a go-to for me. I send both of your videos to me partner - what an amazing thing you both provide even in just that one way.

[@kristencowan7001]

It’s so helpful to be reminded that your reality is just as valid. It’s so easy to doubt myself and feel like I was the problem in my marriage but my reality is valid and it was toxic.

[@whitneymason406]

Thank you both, Taylor and Orion, for always being real and vulnerable with us. I really enjoyed this and can relate to many things you discussed. 💞

[@MomontheSpectrum]

💓

[@KinoStudentX]

I said those exact words to my therapist: "I feel like I lost a piece of myself, like a piece of me died." I was so depressed for months. I contemplated suicide. The nature of the breakup created the darkest months of my life. This was all before I was aware of my autism (diagnosed adhd).

[@CuteCatsofIstanbul]

I love Orion's channel, this channel like coming home, being on the right planet. But in order to understand this planet we are on, I also love to watch the channel SOFT WHITE UNDERBELLY. There is a video there on the topic of divorce that I think everyone should watch. A divorce lawyer James Sexton shares his insight into marriage and divorce. I personally never truly understood marriage - especially the contractual side of things. But I also never understood how ONE person can be a best friend, an intimate partner (that has many complex layers from sex to love making to fantasy etc.), a co-parent (though I'm child-free by choice now), a business partner (finances of a household), a housemate to share all household tasks with, and to share my precious bed with that person. Sure I get that it works for a number of years, but the forever bit? I wish I could believe it would happen to me, but I honestly think it is a very rare thing.

[@curiousmichael]

I relate to this ‘all in one’ feeling questionable sentiment

[@asafoetidajones8181]

It's worth considering that marriage hasn't always included all those roles in every era and every society.

[@playnicebereal5850]

Thank you both for this topic! Divorce is gut wrenchingly painful and lonely as an autistic adult. I have very few friends (1) who I have known for over 30 years. If it weren’t for him things would have been much more difficult for me. And masking throughout a marriage I get that too. Wow, you both help so much! You’ve both validated me and other as well, surely. 💜🧡

[@annaw2812]

Wow Taylor, I am so so impressed by you. Thank you for talking about this.

[@LisaAnnOberbrunner]

I wish I could do thousands of thumbs up for this video. Each of you separately are my favorite KZbinrs about autism. I have a great deal of respect for the painful honesty.

[@MomontheSpectrum]

💓

[@threestringsomg]

In bed 3 days and this podcast is great to hear. Well done both of you. The shaking comments hit home. It happens to me so often especially just before burnouts. I'm only recently learning that some life long problems ive always had.... including with friendships and relationships ...are partly explained by undiagnosed ASD traits im only just starting to process. At moment i might be divorcing too....im the 'crazy husband' and dad as im always so unwell... Always had that anger and self hate inside of not being my true self and struggling in so many daily situations. Thankyou both of you for sharing your insights so well.

[@MomontheSpectrum]

It is hard to grapple with the truth of not being your true self. But once I woke up to my patterns there and how I was downplaying so much of who I truly am, once I became aware of that it was like no turning back. I can't shove those things down anymore. And a healthy partnership won't require that.

[@electron2601]

OMG I had no idea Taylor went through a divorce. I remember following her channel up until around late February and remember her being married. I kind of took a break on watching Autism content and now back into it again. I hope she fares well and I think doing a video about this topic is fantastic. I appreciate all the great videos you put out here.

[@mauritsbol4806]

Funny. The reasons of Taylor on why she got so invested in starting a youtube channel, are similar to why i started writing. To help first and foremost my wife, wayyyy in the future on how to treat me, and more importantly, what i have to offer (so that ultimately i feel valued). In my book, i am trying to answer “why relationships collapse”. From employer-employee, to mom and dad, my ex, to friendships or geopolitical relations, it all seems to hang on the principles of the human psyche. I have identified it as the central question to humanity. Fyi, it is kind of a special interest, that has gone a bit further than a special interest. I generally tend to struggle with keeping interest in a subject, but because it is wide enough, and it involves so many aspects, i can keep looking and searching.

[@mortyblink8355]

Great to see you working together. The trap of (early) marriages is really an issue for us, very relatable including the timing. God bless you and keep going. Amen

[@MomontheSpectrum]

good point about early marriages... I think of myself as pretty naive sometimes and I just don't really think i knew enough about relationships to get married when I was... 21!!! But no regrets. I am grateful for my beautiful life and all of its twists and turns

[@redbaron8999]

This podcast needs to reach more people!!! VIP info here!!!

[@MomontheSpectrum]

thanks for the feedback!

[@Jenna.g.85]

Well done Taylor, thanks for being vulnerable and sharing your story with us

[@MomontheSpectrum]

you're very welcome

[@redbaron8999]

Hello. Phenomenal Job!!! I'm sharing this with many people who could also benefit from viewing your podcast!!! Please Keep up your Valuable work, Thank you 🙏❤️

[@MomontheSpectrum]

You're welcome! Thanks for your comment.

[@christinadonnelly781]

Thanks for sharing your story Taylor. I am also an Autistic woman who went through a divorce for very much the same reasons you said. Three years out and my kids are much much happier than they ever were than when I was married. I have not much family support so I am doing it on my own for the most part and it is so tiring and I have been in and out of burnout regularly but I would still choose this again even if I knew how hard it would be. My kids are so healthy and are able to live here in my home with the full expression of their neurodivergent selves because I am too. I have also had the freedom to be able to explore all aspects of my personality that I felt like I couldn't before and I feel like my life is better suited for me. There is more to learn always and building a better support system for your new Autistic self is worth it.

[@LisaH-kk3ny]

Thanks guys! I've followed you both, separately, for several months while learning and getting my own ASD diagnosed. To see this awesome conversation between you was really wonderful. Taylor, when you said "I have my own back" is when I teared up. This internet stranger is so proud of you!! Thanks to you both for all the good you put out into the world- you really make a positive impact.

[@feiradragon7915]

The best relationships, romantic or not, are ones where all people involved are willing to collaborate when they've got a problem. It is an action that proves they're willing to meet the other halfway and put in the effort to make all involved as comfortable as possible. Completely different tangent but here's a really powerful quote imo. "Normal is not the norm. It's just a uniform." -We Are the Others by Delain.

[@justinacarothers2699]

Thank you Both for this video. I can so relate to your story Taylor. I was 13 when I met my now ex husband. We had 19 years together. I had never dated anyone else & had no experience what so ever with that kind of relationship other then him. I felt like I had been kept in a box for 19 years after it was all over. I had lost my whole identity other then my children's mom. I did not have the support network like you do & it took me a long time to get my bearings about me.I glad you have people you can trust & go to. Orion, Your segment on loss & grief played heavily on my thoughts watching this interview. Divorce is a loss (in my opinion) equal to a death. A death of a relationship, of what once was or what might have or could have been. Many of the same feelings & challenges are gone through to heal & understand & navigate what next with out them by your side. I almost didn't watch this because of the tile & the emotions it stirs up. I'm one of those boo hoo over sensitives & sometimes need to guard myself from sensitive topics, shows, situation.

[@MomontheSpectrum]

Thank you for sharing your experience!

[@amandaritchie5497]

I felt the words she was saying im currently married and feel like i have lost myself. I just got testing done and hes aware but he still gets so angry from my struggles. I also get 100 percent ignored daily. Im pretty sure ive masked my whole life cause everything I liked was an issue and as far as marriage goes i used to enjoy music and dancing but it upset my spouse so i pushed it down and just dont know me anymore

[@patrickjchesebrough]

Orion, this kind of content is helping me save my marriage. I am so thankful for you two. I feel so much sorrow for Taylors pain but it is helping me and my wife find healthy space. Blessings

[@Piroschatz44]

I am a 42Y late diagnosed, dated over 100 women and I was never able to get into a relationship. Everytime I had a good date and got ghosted after the 1st or 3rd date, it was hard to get over it and I asked everytime for the reason and it was everytime a shoulder shrug and the words "I don´t know, but it is like it is." Ive also lost many connections and friends because of this and they told me, that they cancel the contact because i threat women badly and I never understood this. I haven´t played with them, no mind games, I was kind, honest everytime and so on.........seeing that you 2 have kids is impressive and you can be proud of it. I struggled everytime, even in such short term things and can barely imagine how it is to break up after such a long time, but I feel the deep pain here and you are not alone Tay. Ive als heard that autistics should only met/date autistics, but I disagree here, because I am a guy that wants to learn as much as I can and in terms of this social stuff, I can learn more from neurotypicals than autistics. The conflicting part is, that neurotypicals don´t want to learn as much as I want.

[@fjdoucet1465]

It's not that you "should" only date NTs, it's that it's easier and often more fulfilling for us as NDs to have relationships with each other. We understand and complement each other more than NTs do.

[@keylanoslokj1806]

As autistic incel myself,.i absolutely agree. If you don't neurotypically gaslight them like their Chads do. And play mind games and emotional rollercoasters they are not interested. Endless times women called me boring,.feminine,.gay you name it. .

[@charlottemckenzie5259]

Taylor is so strong, resilient, resourceful, honest, full of integrity, extremely intelligent and beautiful. I loved this conversation about all th things that go a long with divorce that we should all know about and talk about. it's very very difficult but there's life afterward and thriving is verypossible. good interview!

[@lolmynamehere6303]

I know many people have said this already, but this conversation was so helpful and affirming to me. I relate a lot to the feeling of minimizing yourself because you are trying to fit into the mould of the expectations of a neurotypical relationship, and how it completely destroys your sense of self. Like Taylor said at the end, I have started the process of rebuilding myself by asking myself very intentionally what I want, starting small. Every day, I ask myself what I want to eat. I ask myself what I want to wear. Thinking about those small things and then doing them has starting reconnecting me with listening to myself, instead of doing only what I feel obligated to do, and being what I feel obligated to be.

[@feliciaschoenfeld5177]

About empathy: yesterday a health worker told me that after recent research she believes that autistic people do have empathy. Finally it is dawning on professionals in Western Europe.

[@vivianstewart7523]

It's about time, right? 🙂

[@lolok6166]

God, I so relate to your feelings regarding anger and having to learn to almost permit yourself to feel and experience it as an adult, Taylor.

[@MomontheSpectrum]

if you're interested, there's a book that's been really helpful to me called "The Dance of Anger" by Harriet Lerner.

[@lolok6166]

@@MomontheSpectrum thanks, I really appreciate it 😊

[@connied8507]

It took me about 10 years to find myself. (Divorce from 20 year marriage) I see issues in my middle age children. I think it might have helped for some counseling available to them. I definitely have a better life now than when I was married. I remember the wild mood swings from when I first unmasked. Leaning into my religion helped steady me.

[@ishbelharris1857]

I loved hearing Tay describe us 'assets in a relationship'. I was cheering her on as she described her personal attributes, because I share them and yet I have been dumped out of a couple of long-term relationships that I was 100% invested in forever. The last one was six years ago and I still don't understand where or how it went wrong for my partner. Since then I have made a positive decision not to try to have another relationship and just be done with the whole business. Love your content, Orion. It's proving invaluable in helping me to reassess everything about my pre-diagnosis life and to embrace rather hide my 'weird normal'. Very empowering, 10/10, A++

[@MomontheSpectrum]

thanks for your comment! 💓

[@orionkelly]

I'm so grateful to hear that.

[@ishbelharris1857]

@@orionkelly You're very welcome. You put a lot of effort into your content, so it seems fair to let you know it's appreciated.

[@markshepardsongs]

This is so powerful and helpful. thank you for this raw, honest conversation. Whew! All my life I was called "too sensitive." I've struggled so much in my life in relationships. If I had only known... But knowing NOW. is hopeful. "trust yourself. be gentle with your self." Thank you for your work. both of you.

[@neridafarrer4633]

I feel for you so much Taylor. It's making me feel better about how devestating my relationship, and staying there because I couldn't bare that "being torn to pieces" by the risk of losing my children, was for me. My ex used to threaten me "If you ever leave you will never get the kids, because you are crazy". I wasn't "crazy" I was autistic and had a lifetime of abuse and trauma to contend with. So I stayed for 20 years, but, I wasn't gonna make it if I stayed beyond that time. I just couldn't see how I could survive being separated from my kids, before that point Having said that I still had young children, when I finally left, because I had a large family and I got primary care of my two youngest. However, I ended up estranged from my oldest children, who were teens and young adults and easily swayed by narcissistic teiangulation, from the other parent. Estrangement from my children was the most painful, devestating thing I had ever been through and I've been through a LOT of traumatic stuff. 13 years on and I'm still not out of the woods with trauma responses and I know my autism (ADHD-Autism-"gifted" neuro phenotype) is causing delays in the recovery journey. Having said that I'm still estranged from one of my children and it hurts every single day, but have reestablished healthy relationships with the other 4 older adult children . And I was also 16 when the relationship started. I'm 50 now. I'm in a lovely, supportive, warm relationship with someone with the same neuro type as mine and it's probably saved my life. Not that I would take my own life, I would never do that to my kids, but the stress of it was so extreme, it really was killing me at one point.

[@ajakubo11]

Oh man, i watched 13 minute and this is sooo intense and relatable. Thank you both.

[@speardagger]

I like Taylor, she is a great woman. Thank you for the chance for having her, Orion Kelly.

[@lizhyink5636]

Thank you for discussing this. " Trauma-Informed Approaches" involves acknowledging that the brain and body might respond in fight, flight, or freeze when retelling the original experience, which is why it requires careful navigation. Both of you seemed to really aim for this, and made some very good points about autonomy, equality, and resilience.

[@spencermckim7607]

You are by far the best, ASD information source on KZbin. You are very excellent at educating both autistic adults, and non-autistic adults. Kids too!😁

[@justmorenoise]

Wow, this was incredible. Thankyou for speaking and sharing this because it helps those of us who simply can’t articulate or even admit this deep pain. I have ASD level 2. It’s hard. Life is mostly horrifically painful. I’m passionate about my faith and church but I also had to get divorced about 4 years ago. Thankyou ❤ , your sharing and vulnerability your helps so many.

[@andrewm3329]

Sometimes lately I can't believe how much I've been and currently go through. I'm grateful I'm still alive and able to have a roof over my head and food to eat.

[@MomontheSpectrum]

You're very welcome. You're not alone. Stay the course and listen to your inner compass. Sending love.

[@LexMouse]

Thanks for talking about this. I feel like the crazy person, I feel like I make my partner’s life harder, and my kids have to deal with my crazy. It makes me feel so guilty. I watched a thing on marriage the other day and they said you are not allowed to let your issues affect other people and I felt so convicted 😔 it’s hard. Masking your way through life, never mind marriage… it’s such a big thing. I don’t know who I really am either.

[@willek1335]

Perhaps look up the channel called Mark Hutton, a marriage counselor who specialize in ND couples. I'm not going to say the road forward is easy. You may have to present your partner with the opportunity to see the full side of you, and give her the opportunity to break up, but he's really good. I think it's worth a shot. He often hits the nail on the head for both sides. Good luck, friend!

[@smjbr79]

Thank you...I've been through a few divorces myself... it helps to hear others talk about it. the hardest part for me is not to feel like I'll be alone when I'm old because it was so hard to maintain relationships for me.

[@Tilly850]

65 here: divorced twice. (Widowed twice too, but that is a video I hope you don't have to do.) It's tough and dang, Taylor, I wish I had known all this back then! Such good words from both of you...things that have taken me YEARS to learn. So proud of you. Just figured out this last spring I am autistic and sheesh...explains it all, the burnout, the shaking, the meltdowns, the inability to cope with everything I went through at those times. I remember...ok, sort of. I remember the pain. I am so impressed with both of you and thank you for helping and reaching out and forming these communities. Such gold. I didn't even have the internet back then. Such a help for mental health when a person can access information and connect to people like you two. Wow. I'm blown away. Going through my own anger discoveries and your words help me. Thanks to both of you. What you are doing is powerful. Don't either of you forget that. Even for us elders...talk about late diagnosis, right? Love you both.

[@MyraMabry]

I love how supportive this community is

[@anilbalram7768]

This was very spot on. Cause my wife couldn't self soothe herself and thought that I needed so much for my autism to relax. Now she has a new relationship and we are apparently going to divorce. I know my autism gets hard so I'm opting out of having a new relationship

[@keylanoslokj1806]

Aristotle said: if you are perfectly lonely, you are either a wild beast, or a self sufficient God. Well he forgot there is a 3rd category for perfect loneliness. Being autistic. But of course neuroscience wasn't a thing 2500 years ago so he is excused for leaving us out... .

[@fionam7768]

Never say never: if we're talking Aristotle, remember how the ancient Greeks felt about daring gods....😂 Smart mouth aside, if I may make a suggestion? Focus most on being authentically you and living a life true to what that means for your values and principles, rather than making any decisions now about relationships. Too many people, regardless of neurotypical, feel the need to focus on dating/relationships after a split. If you focus on living with authenticity, the relationship thing will likely work itself out, and whether that means being single or partnered, in a wide or tiny social network, you'll find your contentment ❤❤❤

[@keylanoslokj1806]

@@fionam7768 you project normie and female values and opportunities on me. My authentic self is enemy with 99.9% of the world

[@terrigoulding559]

I can very much relate to Taylor’s situation and experience. I had a very similar experience with my marriage of 22 years ending and we also have 2 children. Sending her much love. She is very brave and strong for being so vulnerable and she is not alone.❤

[@ashleyien1222]

A great talk. I already follow both of you and found it interesting, even though I'm hopelessly single. I'm sorry Taylor has been through such a trauma.

[@redbaron8999]

I am divorced with two Sons on the Autistic Spectrum and their Father died from cancer later when they were 12 and 13 years old. Sadly there was No real family support (covert narcissistic types), to much discrimination here in Olmsted Township Ohio USA! We advocate and educate on Fbk, plus about challenges with communication with having Autistic Spectrum in all aspects of life!!!! I'm now half paralyzed with MS... the worst kind ppms. Fighting every day for our rights to remain in our home 22years, we pay all bills but purposely being denied county assistance to access Federal programs here ... Discrimination from doctors and arrogant medical staff, etc. Annoying! I was denied access to getting my doctor prescribed wheelchair for 5 years until I called the Fed Medicare Hotline in USA !!!! Will share your valuable podcasts!!! Thank you 🙏🙏🙏😊 Sandi Baron Berdysz 9/18/2023

[@feliciaschoenfeld5177]

So it may be the autistic partner Who is over-supporting, not the other way around? This is very helpful. This might be te reason for my depletion.

[@christinleetmaa8259]

I just so much wish you feel bad and alone as few as possible in life, as you have helped others in their difficult times ❤ You are so great Taylor 🎉

[@thedailymakermaking]

Yes, NTs have MUCH to learn from NDs! She nailed it. Lots of love to both of you for making this enlightened and helpful video. ❤

[@dogchees]

I have just realized over the past year or so that I am probably autistic. All the assessments say yes, as well as close friends and my therapist (this past Friday). I still want to get a formal diagnosis, because I have a background in psychology (one of my interests) and I feel like I “have to.” Both of your channels have been very informative and helpful in this process. I also went through a divorce last year. I haven’t talked to my ex-wife about it yet. I’m not quite ready to. We did not have children so I didn’t experience that part of it, but I still completely lost that part of my life. I don’t know what I’m trying to say here, but thank you for making this.

[@LightsandVessels]

It took me a long while to watch it. very painful and I'm grateful to the two of you.

[@sallyjones1213]

What a beautiful, honest, vulnerable and extremely articulate woman and I am very grateful to you both for sharing this informative story, thank you 🙏

[@WoodshedTheory]

I’m so proud of you both

[@MomontheSpectrum]

thanks claire 💓

[@orionkelly]

Thanks mate. I'm open for more deeply personal chats!

[@LunarVixen]

omg... yes.. taylor hits the hammer on the nail about her feelings from the parenting time impact. I don't sleep well at all when i don't have my babies under my roof

[@MomontheSpectrum]

yeah... sleeping alone and being far away from my kids at night is the hardest part

[@markpreheim]

Such a wonderful interview ! Thank you both for covering this subject ! I'm 59, diagnosed about 2 years ago. Divorced after 30 years. I guess it was all my fault...

[@etcwhatever]

It takes two to dance...dont blame yourself for everything. Your ex wife didnt understand you and maybe you didnt understand her. You know its the problem when a neurodivergent is with a neurotypical. I was engaged twice and didnt get married...34 and no kids. Its tough because i identify with Taylor...i had the dream of a family. But right now im trying to get out of burnout and on my way to get an assessment as my psychologist told me im very likely on the spectrum. Take care.

[@chloebunde4455]

You two are so cool! Thank you for kindly navigating this conversation to teach us from Tay's experience. And Tay, hope you care for yourself after this difficult, emotional talk.

[@MomontheSpectrum]

💓