DIY LA2A vs. Klark Teknik KT-2A

[@orthogonalrecords5657]

Dear all! I decided to massively downsize my studio due to time-limitations and new preferences in my life. Therefore, the LA2A from the video is for sale at the moment. If you are interested you can contact me at [e-mail]

[@funwave241]

I've just send you e-mail.

[@javidavi]

Still available?

[@jackpaynebassist]

KT-2A is not bad at all, but the depth and sparkle on the DIY LA-2A is something else. The notes sound much more "live" and less like a recording. This has convinced me to plan out a full LA-2A build eventually!

[@VelvetSorrowmusic]

Klark Teknik 2a-kt Mods - Replace with Black Lion Audio T4BLA Opto Element, Output transformer for a Carnhill vtb1148, 12AX7for a 5751.

[@TallerdelSebaRehbein]

much much better DIY, great work!! very noticeable the difference in size and depth

[@TruenorthmtGod]

I have a KT that I modified and let me tell you sounds great the transience that it produces is awesome. What a nice build bro. I wanna get into building these after I took mine apart.

[@mfdavo]

What did you mod? I've just gotten mine - it sounds great but I'm looking to try some different things for fun.

[@orthogonalrecords5657]

Thanks for chiming in. I would also be interested in the KT mod. Do you have any sources you can share? Thanks!

[@3str]

Did you guys measure the actual gain reduction here or did you just go by the meters? Just asking because it seems that there is more compression going on in the KT2A samples. Otherwise I'd say that the Klark sounds a bit congested, while the DIY has a more natural "grab"..

[@orthogonalrecords5657]

That's a good point, Michael. Thanks for bringing it up. You are right that we just judged the gain reduction by the meters. We should have used a VU-Meter in the return channel instead. Agreed. Best, Markus

[@brentvalleywhag3477]

This. 100% Its why people in the comments are saying the Klark sounds ‘choked.’ It’s simply more compression being applied.

[@AnthonyMartinsRock]

@@brentvalleywhag3477 exactly. Ears are best used when judging compression. Ears then meters then ears.

[@soulieobelissevan]

I felt the Klark was compressing WAY more even though the meters were close. As others have already stated.

[@EstudioMantraChile]

Great comparison, altough I didn't feel the samples were gain matched. But I felt the DIY one was always fuller, and richer in sound.

[@kosycat1]

1:41 OMG hat is beautiful! great job. I'm thinking about buying a pair of kt2a but man look at that clone you built that's amazing

[@orthogonalrecords5657]

Thanks a lot Jonathan. Great to hear. Best, Markus

[@curtis_chip]

dont buy the behringer KT-2A clone !

[@kosycat1]

@@curtis_chip I have a pair,they are actually really nice

[@ryanforest4983]

To be honest...the DIY sounds MUCH better. I have a KT-2A, so I'm not biased. I actually just bought a NOS tube for the signal path of the KT-2A that I hope helps a bit. Depending on how well it works, I may also upgrade transformers. The KT-2A is no doubt a beast for the price though.

[@orthogonalrecords5657]

Hi and thanks for chiming in. I think the tube will help. However, there's also the input and output transformers one shouldn't neglect. I don't know how the MIDAS ones compare here. I am actually thinking about building a Soundskulptor LA502 - but that one wouldn't have the tube stage. So tradeoffs everywhere. :)

[@lightafluident.9950]

Save your money and try to get an LL2A compressor limiter from Little Labs. It's 1,000 bucks, but it's worth it. It can act as an 1176 type of compressor, a Vari Mu compressor, and it can also act as a VCA compressor. One single unit also has mastering fidelity capabilities. That's like having 3 different compressors in one!!!!

[@LunicussOfficial]

You're just hearing the difference in volume, this vid is gain matched VERY badly. I measured the actual numbers and when the DIY is playing it's at -13 LUFS vs -17 for the KT.

[@LA-cy1zj]

@@LunicussOfficial if this is true, thank you at 1:20 they say they tried to match the signals I wonder how hard they tried and if they tried to match peaks instead of loudness

[@cozmovox]

I heard low end compress more on the klark....Was the sidechain (high emph) pot matched on both ? my klark units seem to sound more 3D when you engage that sidechain a bit....

[@orthogonalrecords5657]

Yes, the high emphasis pots where matched as good as possible. Of course theres also a difference in parts in the sidechain.

[@cozmovox]

@@orthogonalrecords5657 thanks ! but most of all congatulations for your build ! I'm probably going to end up building one too.

[@andreasoberholz]

My impression is that the KT2A worked harder and ate up top end too. I would love to hear how this ends up when you set the levels by ear, to come as close as it gets, and then really level match the files with test tones before the files...

[@thekazakh1990]

Peak reduction 40 vs 70? Its Test? 🤔

[@JRandallS]

Thanks for the demo and comparison. To my ears it sounded like the Klark Teknik unit was a bit darker, and I suspected that the pre-emphasis needed adjustment. While it might not be technically identical, the objective would be to have the compression on both units triggered by the same frequency for demo purposes. If in fact that the darkness was due to the pre-emphasis, then the DIY unit would sound brighter, as it was not compressing those higher frequencies.

[@orthogonalrecords5657]

Hi John and thanks a lot for your comment! We had the pre-emphasis set to completely flat on both units. So if the Klark is behaving like an original LA-2A both units should have compressed the whole frequency range evenly. My suspicion is that the more "hifi"-sounding Sowter transformers in the DIY are making the difference due to an extended frequency response. Thanks again for watching and all the best, Markus

[@michaelcaplin8969]

The Klark one uses super cheap and sub par parts, so that would in itself explain the difference.

[@zyxyuv1650]

You should have upgraded the Klark's cell with a T4Bx or T4BLA

[@jafethuerta]

Does the KT-2A have Chinese tubes ? If so, what tubes would you recommend to put into one of these ?

[@orthogonalrecords5657]

Hi and thanks for your comment. Yes, as far as I know the KT-2A comes with cheap chinese tubes. Personally I would try to go with NOS tubes from RFT, Mullard or Siemens or if that's not an option maybe some newer Tungsols. Best, Markus

[@tracyeaves4847]

Burn in some good vintage tubes would probably make a difference. For the price with better tubes and maybe better transformers....well

[@71dhwand]

@@tracyeaves4847 Also get that Kenetek T4B that makes a nice difference. With that T4B it makes your unit behave more like the LA2A

[@LA-cy1zj]

it would be helpful if you did this video again but this time matched LUFS thanks for your contributions

[@stavroshouiris]

the diy sounds like it's brighter, and the sound comes out more dynamic to sort of speak, I think the compressors threshold has a different listening point in comparison to the KLARK, I guess you could say it sound slightly more plucky on the LA 2A. And it's also an example as to why compression does infect have an influence on the tone

[@westw653]

I closed my eyes while listening and could not tell the difference. And I sure wouldn't spend that much more money when IMHO the Klark Teknik 2A-KT sounds as good as the DIY LA2A.

[@orthogonalrecords5657]

Although I hear it differently (and that might be due to a lot of reasons), there's more to a DIY for me than simple sound differences. It's about learning how the device works while building it, learning about electronics in general with every project, being able to repair your hardware yourself if necessary and so on. So, yes I would never argue against your thought if you hear no difference and just want a finished device. However, for me personally that's just not the whole story.

[@westw653]

I understand and respect that.

[@oh515]

The DIY did give more of the excellent analog creamy dimension, and the limiter was far more even. However, it was a massive difference in my speakers. Unfortunately, I don't have any of them. By the way, Klark KT-2A did well in its price range.

[@Sneakyybstrd]

Interesting comparison. LA2A Sounds more round/full/smooth to my ears. The KT to me sounds like it has compression going on along with a fluttering/tremolo-like effect. Don't know if I'd want that effect on everything i run through it. I built one of the DIY AnalogVibes versions of the LA2A and that thing is smooth as butter, very forgiving in the amount of compressing you can do with it.

[@paulbishop2161]

The reduction is set differently on each unit, despite the VU meters showing roughly the same amount of reduction. So on the Klark you need to set it higher in order to match the same amount of reduction on the DIY version?

[@orthogonalrecords5657]

Hi Paul and thanks for chiming in. Yes you are right. It is set differently by purpose. We tried to match the Gain Reduction and the Loudness of the return signal (using an LUFS meter) as close as possible to ensure a fair test. As it turned out the amount of gain reduction on the Klark behaves quite different to the DIY, so we needed to compensate for that. I suspect that this is partly due to the different opto-cells and partly due to the different transformers used. Best, Markus

[@tomvice]

What sourceable output transformer model would use to replace the stock KT-2A? (to improve openness and overall sound) Any input would be greatly appreciated

[@orthogonalrecords5657]

I am sorry, but I can't really answer that questions as I don't own the KT-2A. Maybe, Marty can. I will get in touch with him.

[@IamDaniel247]

I use this as my limiter and I use the 1176 Klark for the compression both together Klark eq sounds amazing for the price

[@orthogonalrecords5657]

Great! Thanks for your comment. Whatever sounds good, sounds good. Yes, I am that pragmatic. ;)

[@abominablemusic]

I'm glad the DIY one sounded good. Imagine if Marcus had spent 1000 euro and it sounded awful... This Klark Technic unit seems intriguing, quite inexpensive but sounding good.

[@orthogonalrecords5657]

No worries. Even if both units would have sounded the same I still would've learned a lot about the topology of the LA2A and why it does what it does. Really worth it as far as I am concerned.

[@Producer4Realz]

Too bad you didn't play Raw sample to compare. Too bright is the opposite of warm sound BTW..so I found it impossible to compare

[@orthogonalrecords5657]

Agreed. I typically don't do this comparison-stuff, so I am actually a noob when it comes to all the details one has to keep in mind. But then again, I don't have time for a lot of KZbin stuff. I'd rather produce more music. :)

[@RobertoDeNegro]

The DIY won this shoot out. I agree with the others that the top end sounded a little muffled by the compression on the Klark unit. The decay of the gutar strings told the whole story for me.

[@johnseals4862]

Great Build man!

[@orthogonalrecords5657]

Thanks a lot John!

[@abzee733]

You didn't mention how long it took you to build the unit. I would find it also very helpful to know what kind of gear you need to build such a unit. Thanks!

[@orthogonalrecords5657]

You're right. I didn't write down the time I was working on the unit. If I should guess I would say it took about 30 - 40 hours. However, I always double or even tripple check all steps (measuring resistor values etc.) during all my builds. But it definitely takes significantly longer to do such a p2p design than one with pre-manufactured pcbs. Concerning the tools the minimum needed would be a good soldering iron a third hand and a good multimeter besides a desk where you can lay out all the parts. Some wire clippers too but I suppose most people got those already. Hope that helps.

[@abzee733]

Orthogonal Records Hey, thanks a lot for the additional info. I would love to build one on my own but I don‘t have the time and I also lack the technical abilities to really go for such a project. Stam Audio also seems no solution, since I simply don‘t want to wait more than one year til the unit arrives. However, I should stop whining cause I will get a WES Audio 1176 beta soon and maybe that plus a LA2A plugin is then fair enough for me. I currently also own a Klark Teknik kt-2a, but I‘m not sure if I should really throw it at the end of my recording chain for tracking vocals or if I should simply stay in the box after the tracking (BAE 1073MPF -> WES AUDIO 1176) and do the rest with plugins. Anyways, thanks again & Greetings from Cologne, Germany :)

[@XxXxpaulxXxX91]

Even if the VU metre shows the same gain reduction you can clearly hear that the KT-2A is compressing a lot more. You should do some calibration before testing those comps with your eyes.

[@orthogonalrecords5657]

Agreed. I usually focus on mixing real music and don't do comparisons that often. That's why I didn't check levels as precisely as I probably should have. Sorry.

[@QuincasMoreira]

Your intro audio is left side only :)

[@j.k.h2769]

Great content guys! :)

[@orthogonalrecords5657]

Thank you Jon!

[@slammersgy6872]

i have the kt-2a too, but this diy build is a killer.

[@lkjkj5035]

the DIY LA2A sounded a lot better to my ears, maybe turn the KT2A into more comp increased zone it might sound closer, but the DIY was frkn Beautiful!

[@orthogonalrecords5657]

Thanks!

[@Han414]

you meant DIY 2a had no coloring..which does not meant its a good thing

[@LightWthoutTheStatic]

I see lots of people saying how much better the DIY build sounded, but really it was just louder. It does sound brighter, but not level matching was definitely a big miss on this being a good comparison of just the tonal qualities.

[@orthogonalrecords5657]

thanks for your comment. I have to say however, that we indeed level-matched using an rms meter on the return from each comp. We put a lot of effort into that matching. What is true is, that the DIY is brighter sounding overall - I suspect that is coming from the sowters - and thus the perceived loudness is higher. But that‘s part of the characteristics of the comp for me.

[@LightWthoutTheStatic]

@ewen lagadeg I listened on Barefoot 27's in a pretty well treated room. I understand that there is a difference between them on a wide range of markers. The KT2a is definitely a budget piece of gear. I pulled the audio into ADPTR AB and the audio from the guitar for the KT2A was anywhere from 1.5-2db quieter in the short term loudness measurement. From a technical standpoint, my criticism is accurate. Even comparing budget and exquisite pieces of gear, it is that much more important to make sure you're not giving any edge to the high end gear just for kicks. The loudness here is off and in favor of the high end gear. It's just a simple statement, not about all the other marvelous qualities of the DIY LA2A that was built here. It's simply about the loudness mismatch which flatters the DIY version.

[@marksmusicplace3627]

the DIY LA2A is definitely warmer with more harmonics but that is to be expected for the price point. A person can do really well with the KT model when mixed properly. But this is the case with any higher gear In comparison with cheaper cost gear. Overall, when mix properly even plugins can sound as good as real gear. I always say real expensive gear, clones, cheaper model gear, then plugins in that order.

[@orthogonalrecords5657]

Hi and thanks for commenting. I agree with your opinion about price-point and sonic character. What I have experienced, though is that especially with compressors even small sonic differences of great hardware easily adds-up over a whole mix to produce noticeably better end-results in comparison to plug-ins. At least that's how I hear it. Best, Markus

[@keithrichards4296]

Congrats for you built. In my Contour Dynaudios/Bryston 4BST-PRO, the difference was NOT small - the DIY sounded clear, 3D, creamy, just great, impressive. On the other hand, the KT sounded cloudy, a bit muddy - not even close. Honestly I prefer the UAD plugin. Thanks for the video.

[@orthogonalrecords5657]

Thanks a lot for your comment! Great to hear.

[@samukelomadlala6062]

Good very inspiring it wound be very interesting if u could try SSL 4000 console DIY

[@peterpwn4311]

hello and thank you for the video, congratulations for your build ! are there any copies for sale maybe, or is just one piece? thank you, have a nice day

[@orthogonalrecords5657]

Hi and thank you! Unfortunately there are no copies for sale.

[@RaunoPaananenAudio]

I´m sorry, but there is quite big volume difference between gears (just look the peaks and lufs)

[@orthogonalrecords5657]

Are you judging from looking at the VU meters? We level matched going back to the DAW. You can't really match peaks and RMS on the VU meters as especially the photocells are quite different on the two devices.

[@RaunoPaananenAudio]

@@orthogonalrecords5657 No no just listening and measuring (lufs), and there is difference. But your comparsion is quite good.

[@orthogonalrecords5657]

@@RaunoPaananenAudio I see. Thanks.

[@JohnSk82]

guys this is great !!

[@orthogonalrecords5657]

Thanks a lot John! Glad you like it.

[@matbell1514]

Think the Diy had fuller low end..

[@orthogonalrecords5657]

Thanks for watching and your comment Mat! Much appreciated.

[@ezeparanoiac1462]

Thanks for the video! :)

[@orthogonalrecords5657]

You're welcome! Thanks a lot for watching.

[@monkeyxx]

The DIY was a little bit louder, could have done better level matching in favor of the KT. That said, the DIY had a more clear top end. The KT was a little more closed off and rounded sounding with less sparkle. Compression action was good on both but the DIY was a little more "transparent" sounding.

[@orthogonalrecords5657]

Thanks for your thoughts! Much appreciated.

[@micah5ive490]

What kinda t4 cell is in the kt2a? I hear that’s the heart of the sound

[@orthogonalrecords5657]

As far as I know thats some Klark-made T4 cell. Hard to say how it compares to other available cells.

[@AtommHD]

KT-2A seems to have a less defined top end and lacks harmonics to my ears.. Also sounds restricted. But for the cost can't complain

[@orthogonalrecords5657]

Thanks for your comment. Much appreciated. I agree that the Klark is very good for the price point.

[@user-cq9my5ju6k]

For the cost i won't spend my money !!!

[@theebob2008]

Yeah, there is some high end loss, but totally usable tool especially if high end loss is needed. I did prefer the DIY.....listening through my phone. Lol, too lazy to go to my monitors.

[@bachelorgamer8001]

small difference looool there was a massive difference (diy was more richer, nice warm joyful base and more clarity) the klerk just mud and sounded like the top was rolled off also lacked any brightness just dull and lack of depth

[@channeloram]

Exactly what I heard

[@Han414]

eh... not really... I listened with my studio headphone.. Its pretty similar. sur kt2a had more compression for some reason..but both of them sounded pretty similar

[@TheMaddoxfam]

The DIY was a bit louder, but also sounded ever so slightly open. When changing form the KT to the DIY, it sounded like taking a blanket off of the speakers. Every so slightly brighter and breathy. The KT sounded like it had some slight saturation which I think would be fantastic on a bass or a pair of overhead mics, but is not the greatest thing for this acoustic track. I do agree that it’s astonishing what KT is doing for the price point.

[@jameswallace5967]

The gain seems higher on the LA 2A .

[@nemerid]

Way more musical with the DIY unit ! I don't like how the KT unit sound compared to the DIY

[@orthogonalrecords5657]

Thanks a lot for watching and your comment Marc! Great that you like the DIY.

[@kshep39]

Agree DIY has more depth and openness compared to the KT. To my ear KT sounded more flat.

[@orthogonalrecords5657]

@@kshep39 thanks a lot for your comment and for watching!

[@ReedGustavsen]

Klark version didn’t hold up against that dudes DIY 2A, awesome build!

[@orthogonalrecords5657]

Thanks a lot Reed! Great to hear.

[@bachelorgamer8001]

if i pay you could make me one Please ?

[@orthogonalrecords5657]

I feel honoured that you think about paying me for a build. However, I really have to pass here. Not enough time, unfortunately, to start building for others. I am very sorry.

[@griploc1981]

Level matching wasn’t accurate. The DIY had a 3dimensional compression. The DIY was also more dynamic and not so restricted like the kt2a. The DIY was also more hf frequency content

[@orthogonalrecords5657]

Thanks for sharing your impressions Terry.

[@LunicussOfficial]

These were level matched very badly. You guys are just hearing a volume difference, not the compressors. I measured the actual difference in volume between these comparisons and the Klark Teknik segments are at around -17 LUFS whereas the DIY is at around -13, which is psychologically going to overwhelm any subtle difference in perceived quality between the units.

[@RudeLead]

Wow. I expected the DIY to win the shootout because of the overall better components in the build, but I didn't expect the difference to be so dramatic. And I've just listened with my phone speakers for now. The DIY sounds a lot richer in the low end and more sparkly in the high end. Without losing any mid presence. The KT just sounds cheap and harsh in comparison. A lot less lively than the DIY. Def on my list for my next builds.

[@MurnerJoel]

DIY so much warmer 3D absolute winner

[@a.i.o.productionz3538]

diy was naturally louder and more in your face but at $350 im going with the Klark

[@orthogonalrecords5657]

Hi and thanks a lot for you comment. Yes, the DIY seems louder due to the extended frequency response and the additional depth it's adding. Loudness was matched as exactly as possible as already stated in my other answers. Of course I agree that the Klark is doing a great job at the price-point. I'm definitely ordering one and will try to replace the tubes to NOS-Mullard and/or Tungsol. Thanks for watching and all the best, Markus

[@a.i.o.productionz3538]

@@orthogonalrecords5657 i owned a stam SA2A a while back very good product it made a big difference tracking into my daw ...but after 2 weeks of drooling over the new addition it became an old piece of gear... .With skill the klark will work wonders at a quarter of the price

[@orthogonalrecords5657]

@@a.i.o.productionz3538 of course skill is exponentially more important than gear. Completely agreed.

[@chuckjuice1317]

Same here, bought Klark comp and pultecs...price vs sound too good to pass

[@user-cq9my5ju6k]

I save 350$ in my case !!!

[@tiborvegh700]

The DIY version is way better, the KT-2A showed some bad pumping while the LA2A sounded smooth on all setting.

[@lucasmotta9437]

Kinda hard to compare when its not matched levels everything louder sounds more interesting

[@Juice49-80]

My goodness a world of a difference! DIY killed the KT

[@roodsound]

KT sounds broken compared to the original/clone. Attack/Release times or opto cell is not right either.

[@orthogonalrecords5657]

Thanks for your comment. Of course the opto cell is different in both units. The DIY uses a Kenetek T4B while the KT definitely doesn't use such an expensive cell. Best, Markus

[@lunasound8158]

I am sorry, but this was not even close listening on good headphones. Level aside, the tonality is completely different. I could go on and on about the differences just in this example. Having said that, the Klark stuff IS the best bang for buck gear out in the market IMHO....but it is not even close to what it claims to emulate.

[@michaeltownsly1493]

Omg, how sad that the dude at the end couldn't bring himself to say there was a complete world of difference between these two units! Not a great engineer if you are so attached to a $400 compressor that you can't be impartial. This is the world of sound my friend, one thing sounds fantastic in this video and the other doesn't even sound as good as the waves plugin version of an LA-2A! There wasn't a "slight" difference as you say, it was night and day.

[@RS-bs3mj]

Totally agree. Just be honest and say it’s massively better than the Klark! That half arsed acknowledgment was a slap in the face for the DIY guy. I own the Klark and although it’s great for the money I thought the DIY was shockingly better.

[@orthogonalrecords5657]

Of course I agree and I love my DIY 2A. Didn't feel like being slapped in the face, though. ;)

[@Il-Cane]

...... the gain is like +2db for diy comp.... is impossible to judge will always sound better for our brain

[@juntin810]

big difference. I’m listening through my phone.

[@stylianosbalabos6619]

DIY much more open ,detail ,and musical.

[@orthogonalrecords5657]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. As the DIY is my own build, I obviously have to agree. ;)

[@andrejbjorn]

notebook here.. full, rich sound vs dull distorded crap

[@TruenorthmtGod]

On the KT. Replace tubes with GE and big difference.

[@hakanjohnson2726]

Thats BS! The Tube in any cheapo unit is not working as an amplifier tbue so a difference... i say NOT

[@fullalbums5675]

the DIY is louder, no wonder people prefer it

[@savanaviolenta]

That DIY is Huuuge

[@orthogonalrecords5657]

Thank you! Great to hear you like it. :)

[@lucasmotta9437]

Also the louder in volume he should've matched levels

[@hakanjohnson2726]

Why do you even bother with any comparison with behringer built Klart shit? It is Shit and thats why they cost nothing! Every trained and untrained ear can instaly hear the KT units are not up to par. I dont care about price as they cant deliver any fairly close sound! Period! And for those who say otherwise shouldn’t make music as you cant tell tye difference between good and bad.

[@orthogonalrecords5657]

I basically agree, although I wouldn't phrase it anyway as drastic as you did. ;)

[@hakanjohnson2726]

Sorry for that frasing! Have a good sunday :)

[@curtis_chip]

sorry guys, the KT 2A is the worst clone in history! why? the behringer guys build a unit that does NOTHING.

[@Warmwinterz]

Sent my kt2a back after 3 hrs

[@AnthonyMartinsRock]

Out of curiosity, why exactly?

[@Warmwinterz]

@@AnthonyMartinsRock i got it to track rap/trap vocals and found it to be too slow. Sounded pretty good just not good for what i wanted it to do

[@AnthonyMartinsRock]

@@Warmwinterz ah yes, The kt2a is based on an LA2A. As it is a straight compressor, it is better after an 1176 style unit so a KT76 as a limiter would work for that purpose as you can control the attack and release time. The 1176 and LA2A work amazingly well together.

[@orthogonalrecords5657]

Thanks Anthony - agreed. For that purpose a combination of 1176 and LA2A would be a great choice.

[@71dhwand]

@@Warmwinterz Swap out the the T4B cell with the Kenetek T4B. That is what was used in the DIY. It makes your unit behave more like a LA2A. Also change out the tubes. The tubes are some cheap Bugera brand shit. Get some Telefunken or Tung-Sol tubes doing that with mines now. There is a reason for it being cheap, but with those adjustments, it could give that unit new life. Out of the box it is still a damn good compressor. Don't give up so easy bro !!

[@soundvillage5977]

A little more????? Its a huuuge difference in my ears. DIY has much more meat and richness.

[@bachelorgamer8001]

ZED i dont know what hes talking about hes so use to cheap gear