Let's Talk About Model Railroading's Biggest Problem

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[@johnbanicki7232]

What I find interesting is that looking at magazines from 40-50 years ago one of the items they talk about is the high cost to get into the hobby. We all remember blue box cars for $2-$4 each and engines for under $20. What we don't remember is that we only made about $2/hr. As we get older we tend to have more spending money that we can use for our hobby. But even as a kid I found ways to make my money go farther. Train shows, yard sales, garage sales were all places I looked for cheap things to use on my layout. I still shop at all of these places. However as I have gotten older I have gotten more selective. The cheap cars that I ran long ago are no longer good enough. Now I want more detail and better accuracy. These things cost money, but they are what I want. If you compare the quality of items we can buy now to what we used to have we are doing pretty well.

[@davidcurtis5398]

Hardly ever buy new unless the item is on sale or the store is closing. What ever happened to all of the dies that the "blue box' type of companies had? Modelers just don't want to put the time into assembly any more. Just lazy...

[@vondumozze738]

I started my ho layout in 1973 and added on to it up until the end of 1978. I know what you're talking about with the cheap two to four dollar cars and $19.95 engines. My gear was mostly Athearn,, Atlas, and AHM. It's all been in stores since 1980.

[@claytons8263]

Between my dad and I we have 14 Challengers and 4 BigBoys a few we bought already assembled but the others are in kits waiting to be assembled in there factory boxes. They are factory new and FULL DIECAST KITS FROM BOWSER from the 50s I know that because the instructions are dated 1950-51.And not to mention the hundreds of dollars we have in 1940s 50s era metal and wood rolling stock that are also kits most are Athearn Blue box kits, All were purchased of E-bay. Yes it's all H.O.

[@coachhannah2403]

While extreme detail is certainly cool, think about what you can see in real life at the distance the real items look to be the size of these models and that level of detail is lost. Stand back a bit... Model RR is art. Most art is not super-detailed, but is meant to capture the essence of reality.

[@DogRedful]

I control cost by keeping focused…a reasonable sized layout, only one or two projects at a time and avoiding impulse buy of items that don’t fit the layout theme.

[@thomasdecker7631]

I am continually amazed by the amount prices have increased in the last few years. Rolling stock in the $50-$75 neighborhood? Not doing it. I try not to spend over $25 for a car and even then it's got to be something I really want. I wish more manufacturers would bring back kits. When manufacters gained access to cheap Chinese labor, they figured out there was a market for RTR and attendant higher profits, so kits largely went away with a few exceptions. (Accurail comes to mind immediately. Their kits are still reasonably priced and not difficult to assemble.) I collected many kits when they were common and affordable. There are often Athearn blue box, Roundhouse and other kits still to be found at train shows. They're inexpensive and will provide a lot of enjoyment, a feeling of accomplishment and a chance to learn new skills. After all, isn't that what the hobby is about?

[@mr.e1944]

I just assemble two roundhouse V&T kits last week. That was fun. I used kadee couplers. These are good enough for me. After some light weathering they will look awesome.

[@thomasdecker7631]

@@mr.e1944 I collected quite a few Roundhouse old timers back in the day including a number of undecs that I enjoyed painting and lettering for local roads like Pere Marquette, Grand Trunk, Michigan Central and a few others. They provided a lot of fun without breaking the budget.

[@gmansard641]

Yes, I am surprised at all of the RTR, but more so at the pre-assembled structures.

[@chrismiller5198]

It's too bad that Athearn kits and others of that style are no longer manufactured. These were good starter kits for many young modelers. From them I was able to graduate to the detailed wood and metal castings craft kits.

[@thepoo1234]

One of my favorite cars are the Athearn Blue Box PS 5344 boxcar kits. They're well detailed, easy to put together, and come in a variety of road names, including a lot of short lines. It's a shame no one makes anything like that now.

[@baldguyadventure]

When my dad passed away back in January, my mother found out about all the DCC engines with sound that he had purchased over the last two years. Plus rolling stock and a DCC system. She said he mentioned building a layout to her one day a couple years ago so he secretly built up a collection and was going to surprise her one day. He was restoring a old car and she told him he didn’t have time for that lol I still have a big box of old brass track , HO engines, cars and stuff from when I was around 12 years old. I’m now 52. We did a family layout on top of our pool table in the basement. Lots of good memories doing that and buying engines and cars at the hobby shop.

[@jonglass]

I think it would be helpful to compare model railroading to other common hobbies. One I can think of is photography. It's very difficult to get started for under a thousand dollars. Bicycling? eep! If one wanted to get into, for instance, record collecting and listening, a decent turntable costs as much as you are suggesting for a basic set. The records add to the cost. Various sports, like golf and tennis are also not cheap. If one wants to play a musical instrument, again hundreds. What about gaming on a PC or console? Model railroading isn't cheap, but honestly, if one is serious about something, nothing is cheap. :-) Sure, all of these can be done cheaper (and mostly by buying used equipment--but that's another topic), and I think you showed in this video how to make it cheaper buying new model railroading gear. This was a good video, and I hope manufacturers take notice. I forgot to add. When I was a teenager in the late 70s, model railroading was nearly prohibitively expensive for me. Every turnout was like gold to me. I had the most modest of layouts because of that. Nowadays, I stick to small, switching layouts, also for the expenses. I don't remember model railroading ever being "cheap." ;-) Actually, for me, the most "expensive" part is the real estate--finding a place to put a railroad. This might make a cool topic for a video or series--how to put a railroad in the tiniest of spaces, and see how much railroading functionality you can fit. Shoot. forgot my coffee. It's Aldi German Roast, regular. It's good if you like European coffees.

[@DinsdalePiranha67]

I definitely know what you're talking about as far as musical instruments. I have an electric guitar sitting on a stand in the same room as my model railroad for which I paid $1500 in 1998. And now that I've made the jump to DCC with my little switching layout, I know about those costs as well!

[@donavonrobbins1908]

I understand the company thinking, but having to pre order and schedule purchases keeps a lot of people with limited "play money" out of the game and drives up prices in the used market. Inaccurate and severely delayed release dates don't help the situation either.

[@alphagt62]

Many years ago, I got into model railroading. I was suffering an illness that kept me close to home, so I got into model railroading to pass the time. It truly saved my sanity! But, I chose N scale, for two reasons, it’s the cheapest model railroad you can get into, cheaper than HO, cheaper than Z. And it’s smaller, it’s nearly half the size of HO, and I can turn a train around in half the space. So it required much less real estate. I got over my illness, and now my railroad sits in storage. But, I’m thinking about Z scale, I know it’s prohibitively expensive, and few models are available, but it takes up so little space! You can have a decent layout in a coffee table. But model railroading is like most other things, you get what you pay for. Put money into track! Poor track is the cause of much frustration, if you spend the time and money to build a great track, then you can relax and build your trains up over time. I personally fell in love with scenery, and it is possible to make great structures out of found items like cardboard and paper. I sifted my own gravel, and sand, I made my own static grass maker, great scenery doesn’t have to be expensive. Is railroading expensive? I’m also a musician, and yes, I’ve got many thousands into my bass guitars, (I have 6), amps and speakers, plus the P.A. equipment for the band, lighting, etc. me and the rest of the band collectively have $50 thousand invested, easily. My mother sews quilts, the cost of fabric, notions, and the machines! It requires an entire room dedicated to it, with cutting tables and all manner of expensive scissors, etc. so it is not cheap. My sister does scrap booking. And while I’m sure it can be done cheaply, she’s probably got more money invested than any of us! She has to have the latest everything, and a printer like device that cuts paper into shapes and letters. I also own a Harley motorcycle. While it’s just an extra vehicle to me, I know people who own several, and build projects from the ground up. The tools and space required are astronomical! The guy across the street has a funny car in his shop, and races the local NHRA circuit. I know he and his friends have hundreds of thousands invested. By comparison to many major hobbies, model railroading doesn’t seem all that expansive.

[@donavonrobbins1908]

@@alphagt62 I've already commented once, but I. The spirit of your post, I have just one word. Boat.

[@alphagt62]

@Donavon Robbins YES! A boat is a hole in the water you pour money into.

[@adoby83]

New technology is needed. Today wifi connected microcontrollers are cheap, small and powerful, supporting OTA reprogramming. Could be controlled via mqqt with high level commands and edge computing. Acceleration/break curves and so on. Short range rfid tags for signals to the train. Build locomotive chassis with a mcu, speaker, light connectors and rfid tag reader. Possibly even swappable tops to change locomotive looks. 3d printable tops to paint. Or detailed printed decals. Or even papercraft modelling on top of rolling chassis. But, I know, it would mean a whole new infrastructure. But I play with the notion of starting from scratch with Esp32, MQTT, WiFi and rfid.

[@goodrails]

First time I ever disagreed with you. Disclosure: I am 67yo, low vision, and a curmudgeon at best. DCC: Yes, I agree that it has quite a few very nice features. DCC: No, i don't believe this is the way to start people in model railroading. 1) Cost - To expand from simple loop to ? Every step of the way will cost extra. 2) Complexity - Sure, a 30 ~ 40 something might be able to puzzle it out but think how long us 50 ~ 60 somethings take to effectively use their smart phones. 3) Frustration - Number 1 killer of any hobby 4) No percieved need - I want to set up my loop of track, put the trains on it and run! Not fool with more electronics. 5ish A) Understanding how / learning about getting powe to the moter and other forms of electricty. 5ish B) Ok, I get it, ya don't have to understand a microchip to use a smartphne - but it helps. Summery: Don't push DCC on novices. Let them get up and running to the point they have expanded once or twice and have a 'feel' for mosdel railroading. Then Let they explore the options Pros and Cons. Mixed Multi Pacs of Cars? Hmm, ya, that could work. Wish you the best.

[@andrewlaverghetta715]

As somebody who made a basic layout in the early to mid 90s, I know I was lucky enough to have some older siblings who had collected a bit of track before me. We didn't really know what we were doing, though my dad was an electrical engineer. I remember he had purchased me a couple of my own DC locomotives. They seemed cheap with how it didn't seem like it had to be a special occasion. Somewhere I've got a Conrail HO Athearn locomotive that I probably never got fully assembled. That'd be a pretty steep cost nowadays I feel. I'm 38. Coming back to it to build something with my dad, man, the price feels like it's skyrocketed where even a DC of something that's interesting and in stock is easily over $100. If you want to go under, you're going to compromise on looks it seems, but I guess I didn't care about that much when I was younger. It'd be nice to do DCC...that's what everybody is doing, modeling, promoting, talking about. You search for wiring (like I have been recently) and it's all about DCC. It seems like it's a no brainer though. Why would you want to get all complicated with having to control parts of a layout and not just be able to tell your locomotive what you want? Heck, why can't a loco be Bluetooth? Why can't a hook up something to my phone and tell it to go a certain speed, tap a button for a horn, and all that. I guess I'd only be able to connect to 1 at a time this way, but it seems like something simple with the times that's being overlooked. "Sorry, there's no app for that, but everything else still feels incredibly outdated and expensive."

[@BlackMan614]

I got away from the hobby for about 20 years... I am SHOCKED at the price of DCC. WTH... I thought it was super cool as a kid to learn about electricity (albeit DC) and SPDT switches, etc. I saw many layouts that ran just fine pre-DCC. I don't get it. $300 locomotives?? Are you kidding me?

[@Hans-gb4mv]

Don't forget, life has gotten more expensive and we make more money. 300USD today was only 200USD 20 years ago.

[@erikhilsinger9421]

You can still find a cheap path but it takes work. Sound decoders from XL on eeeeekbay, all the old kits are floating around undone by someone at a show or online. The crazy thing is buying an MDC kit that comes with NWSL gear kits, can motor, etc. that somebody never got around to building. Newest and best? maybe not, but old reliable is still out there, sometimes waiting to be loved.

[@ricklepick9148]

I think the cost issue is largely an economy of scale thing and I'm not talking HO or N scale, of course, just number of people in the hobby. For example, if you could see sales numbers for individual engines or rolling stock, I doubt you would find many items that sell over 10,000 units a year. I bet a lot of it is in the low 1,000's and some of the real expensive stuff is probably in the 100's. It's not like the products you see in Walmart that are being made by the hundreds of thousands. When you spread tooling costs across a small number of products, the price goes up. When you are buying relatively small quantities of raw materials to make those products, the cost goes up. Spreading out assembly costs across a smaller number of units, the price goes up and I would expect a lot of these products are using mostly manual labor to assemble. There are quite a few model railroaders out there, but I doubt we are talking millions of people, probably more like a few hundred thousand and at varying degrees of devotion to the hobby. I do work in the consumer product industry and quantity makes an enormous difference in cost. Worldwide inflation and material shortages are driving prices up a lot right now too. DCC might come down a little over time, as more and more people get invested in it, but I doubt we will ever see model railroading become an inexpensive hobby, there just aren't enough people in the hobby to drive that economy of scale.

[@cowboyvalley]

@RicklePick, I think you are very correct about this point. And I believe it is BY FAR the biggest reason for costs. Model railroading has never been "cheap" and never will be. We can only hope the hobby and manufacturers stay around. ...Claude

[@JF-lt5zc]

There is something to what you said. I'd counter with this: If the scale went up and more options were available at a lower price, I'd be buying new rolling stock left and right. But at $40 and up for new cars, forget about it. I'll stick to used and discount/ebay. Shame really, as there is money to be made if they would go for volume vs, well, whatever this current model is. This same problem effects locomotives. I'd love to buy more Scale Trains stuff, but the runs are so small, it makes it difficult. Pre-orders are always sold out and good luck finding anything at a hobby store. :(

[@tomt9543]

@@JF-lt5zc Better yet, try to FIND a hobby shop!

[@philliproe204]

Jimmy, I think these days there is way, way too much emphasis on buying things(bells & whistles like DCC plus etc) and not using ones own creativity setting up train displays(especially for children). As my father who grew up in the 1920s depression use to say any fool can spend money! Excellent topic today. Phillip Roe

[@buzzard4242]

Great Video!! You are right on point with your assessment. I am retired and trying to get into the hobby. While I agree with John Banicki's comment, it is still difficult to spend a large sum of money on something that you are not entirely sure you will enjoy. For example, I am trying to decide between HO and N scale. Space is at a premium so N would afford a more comprehensive layout but HO has more to offer in terms of products and ease of use (I am retired...old).

[@srenchin]

Ugh, why do we insist that beginners start this hobby by jumping directly into DCC? You can just avoid the cost of DCC by running your railroad with good old fashioned analog DC. Sure the wiring may be a little more complex, but the cash outlay is much smaller. Atlas still makes their affordable modular "Controller" and "Selector" components which can greatly simplify the process, a frugal shopper can even buy these items second hand. The same goes for analog locomotives, an old Athearn Blue Box F 7 can be had for fraction of the cost of a DCC equipped model. With a little planning anyone can wire a DC layout that can be upgraded to DCC at a latter date as funds permit. The most important thing a beginner should focus on is to get a layout built and get some trains running, expensive control systems and high end rolling stock should be saved for later.

[@ponderingpops]

Agree! Your suggestions are on point. My wife knits and yarn for a good sweater is about $200-250 so your starter set price is right on. Train shows are great and ebay is good if you're careful about it. I hope you catch the manufacturers' ears on this! Oh, and I'm not a coffee guy, my caffeine source is hot chocolate - special dark!

[@JDsHouseofHobbies]

I went to a train Show in Sacramento this past Sunday and there was quite a bit of old Athearn Blue Box car kits on sale for cheap. That's a great place to start building a collection of equipment for a new model rail.

[@ponderingpops]

@@JDsHouseofHobbies I was able to buy two brand new in box Kato SD40-2s and two drop in decoders for less than $250 on Ebay, so about $125 per loco. I still had to install the decoders, so budget-friendly, but not novice-friendly.

[@pierce324]

Mmmm, hot chocolate

[@friendlypiranha774]

@ponderingpops... $200-250 worth of yarn for a good sweater??? What's your wife knitting with... live sheep??? 🤣🤣🤣

[@tomt9543]

I was born in 1960. Among my many interests were a passion for model railroading as well as short track stock car racing. In the 70’s, if you raced, you built your own car & engine, as well as a trailer to hitch behind your F100 for transporting the beast to the speedway. Also in the 70’s, if you were a model railroader, you built everything on your layout, detailed and airbrushed the Athern and Atlas locomotives to match your favorite road, and wired up simple and cheap DC control using whatever switches, pushbuttons etc. that we could find (model railroading before the internet & Amazon!). The so called “shake the box” car kits ruled the rails cheaply! Fast forward to 2022, and a trip to the local speedway (if you can find one! They’re nearly as scarce as hobby shops!) will reveal that everyone now runs “store bought” race cars, there engines now come from specialty machine shops, and the vast majority of cars are transported in plush 18 wheeler rigs! There are comparatively few cars there now, and sparse numbers of spectators in the stands. Then, examine the model situation. Everything is RTR including structures, the newbie modeler is quickly brainwashed into believing that he HAS to have DCC control, be an electronics expert, and buy the most expensive DCC equipped locomotives, but you have to get on a list a year or more prior to your desired engines release date to stand a chance at getting one of the few they produce! There’s no shelf browsing now! As crazy as it sounds, there’s a lot of parallels between racing and model railroading, such as a loss of craftsmanship, and the fascination with expensive, but not absolutely necessary, things like 18 wheeled transporters and DCC, with its accompanying costly investment in compatible locos. Hundreds of speedways have closed across the US in the past several years including several in my vicinity close to Charlotte, NC, the very heart of stock car racing, due to low car counts and no spectators. Young people aren’t interested in it anymore in part because they can’t afford to even consider putting a car on the track, along with the fact that, as bad as us old farts hate it, there’s a good possibility that the sports time has come and gone! And I firmly believe that the same thing is happening to our hobby. Recently retired (from the railroad ironically!), I’ve dusted 25 years or more of dirt and debris off of my N-Scale layout which has sat unused for that long, and kind of edged back into the hobby, but it’ll be done with 25+ year old Atlas & Kato DC engines. I’ve disassembled them, cleaned all the electrical stuff, lubed where appropriate, and cleaned the rail, so now they’ll all run 100% and crawl when needed! Modeling and the racing thing have been a major part of my 62 years, but they’re both slipping away! I love this channel! Sorry for the book!

[@JimmyProductions]

As a 14 year old getting into the hobby, I love hearing this from all people. I do rental karts and would one day like to move up to short track racing, but it has gotten quite expensive. That’s why when getting into different hobbies, I always try to buy used or if something is on sale I’ll get it. New isn’t always bad, it’s just that most things new nowadays are pricey!

[@IMRROcom]

As per scale trains they say that the operator series is the worst seller and it might go away in favor of the rivet counter only. Not any profit in the budget models.

[@joeraderblackrockcentralrr]

Hey Jimmy dont forget going to train shows for good deals. At the last show I went to a guy had a table full of Bachmann DCC equipted locos for under 50 bucks. True they were older first run locos but I picked up a nice running GP7 for 25 bucks. There are deals out there

[@NJP76]

Very true! I have picked up some great deals at model RR shows in the past. I am hoping that they will soon allow model RR shows again in our area. I really miss them.

[@freescopesdad]

I went to my first train show recently, the Great American in Sacramento on January 8, 2022. Most of what I saw for sale used in n-scale rolling stock was either junk or priced almost the same as retail new. A couple of vendors actually set up mobile versions of their retail stores and were charging full price. And don't get me started on all of the layouts that were "supposed" to be running... Very few were, and there were some no-shows. In all, I'm not that impressed with train shows.

[@OriginalBongoliath]

@@freescopesdad Sounds like you went to these people (TrainShows website) Their shows are generally terrible. Overpriced flea market with very little if any layouts running with people selling their junk they think is gold because it is old. They are on the East Coast under Greenbergs. If you want to find a decent show then avoid these people.

[@jamesm6638]

it's ridiculous that they want us to spend $50 for a single car that, honestly, really isn't anything special... modeling isn't supposed to be a game of who can spend the most money, it's about stretching what you've got into something that you can enjoy, show your talent and skills, and learn from, by doing it yourself. $50 for a single car makes a 10-car train $500!!! I get that everyone is into the hobby for a different reason and "expensive" is all relative, and of course inflation factors in, but it just seems insane to me that it's come to this, especially since this hobby was, literally, built on building.

[@stewarttrains98]

A 1/3 of the people in the hobby really know how to "model". By that I'm talking about doing good job of kit bash, scratch building, detailing rolling stock and structures. Most everyone else just basically builds stuff as is with minimal effort put into it. As for as cost, I do try to make it affordable as possible. I try to buy stuff on sale, clearance and at shows.

[@thoughtengine]

Whatever you do, don't look at speciality railways like Queensland Rail. Very low production, and massively expensive. Then again, OO9 British industrial tramways are often quite established in modelling, and you can make cheaper steam if the tramway ran alongside roads a lot; to avoid disturbing animals, steam locos had covers over their final drives, so there could be anything under there. Even a Kato N tram chassis. Also, papercraft will solve a lot of your scenery issues, assuming you don't go overboard and represent corrugated sheet with printed paper etc. Moccona instant, white.

[@hoscaledelmarvasubdivision]

Great video! I find that intermodal equipment seems very expensive. Like a 5 unit well car set is $100 and then if you want containers for that, it's another $100. So you end up spending $200 on just 5 cars.

[@MidwestModelRR]

Hi Jimmy, your suggestiins are not bad suggestions, problem is, manufacturers have tried this. We've stocked the items like this, no one buys them. Everyone says they want cheap rolling stock or locomotives, but when presented with them they scoff at how it doesnt look like a Genesis or Tangent model. Peoples words say one thing, but what speaks to the industry is money, and the money trail says they want the details, want the sound, want the ditch lights, want the.... The price of the hobby is what people make it upon themselves. The options are out there for brand new rolling stock under 20, new locomotives with dcc under 100, all of this is already available and people turn up their noses to it.

[@russcarlson7151]

I keep costs down by purchasing older kits. I consider myself a modeller first and a model railroader 2nd. I don't obsess with prototypical correctness, rather the overall appearance. I enjoy building and kit bashing. I think many younger folks in the hobby miss a lot with the current availability to just purchase RTR and set it on the layout.

[@marblox9300]

I am a hobby fanatic all my life. I am 62. Real Classic Cars - Trains N and HO - Slot Cars HO and 1/32 - Models - Radio Control Boats - Planes. EVERY HOBBY starts out small and eventually BALOONS into HUGE dollars. Thousands over the years to many thousands. Real Classic Cars are insanely expensive to buy and if you need to bring them to a shop. It ends up being a complete life time of ALWAYS wanting something else. It is as bad as being on drugs or alcohol without the health ramifications. I recommend not getting involved with hobbies at all.

[@kjdickson]

I agree with so much of this in theory but in reality this is very hard to achieve. I am an n-scaler so I can speak on that and there are a FEW manufacturers who rule that scale, Kato, Bachmann, Atlas, Walthers and maybe Con-Cor for steam/passenger. I also am in NJ so I have folks in my former club who work for some manufacturers of model railroad equipment and have some insight into this and I think although it'd be great for the manufacturers to release the sub $200 DCC set it is near impossible. Bachmann is the only one who may come close, but who here wants a DCC set for under $200 with 40 year old molds of ONLY of F-units or early geeps and 40 foot boxcars if they model the modern era? Plastic or more precise PVC is a petroleum based by-product, so goes the price of petroleum, so goes the price of plastic. Also to CREATE a new mold now by either re-engineering an old mold or starting from scratch is a HUGE undertaking with a ton of money to be thrown at it and there is no guarantee it'll sell well. Want to know why stuff is on the books for what seems like decades? That's why. Don't get me going on transporting and logistics on distribution either, not to mention the costs of prepping and painting/lettering multiple road names and numbers either. But what about 3d printing? Maybe in 10 years the costs and precision in which items can be 3d printed can match the costs now of mass manufactured items, but not today. Or do you folks want a huge company manufacturing cheap items like Tyco in the 60-80's did? Yeah inexpensive but it ran like crap. I'd rather buy fewer items of quality than more garbage. If prices get you down, check your local store for 2nd hand stuff and hit train shows. Facebook marketplace, Craigslist, eBay, etc.

[@daylightdave9405]

A good place to go is Train Shows/swap meets, buyer beware on locomotives though! 🚂 Daylight Dave!! 😜🤪🤗

[@chansberry84]

The affordability crisis is even more present in O scale. I am 19 y/o and I got into trains by running them with my grandfather’s and fortunately had a head start that way. I cannot realistically afford any new engine that Lionel or others put out especially steam locomotives. The prices are nearly $1200 for a nice pacific and if you want articulated loco you’re gonna pay nearly $2000. The thing is though they have not released a new product in years though, its all reruns and they keep getting more expensive each time, even 1 catalog to the next. The cars continue to get more expensive as well and a mold that was built in the 90s is still commanding a near $90 per car price. Ive had to resort to bargain hunting on Craigslist extensively to even begin to find affordable trains. Another thing that bugs me is the complete lack of modern models for O, this isn’t as present in other scales but its sad that we cannot get new locos at all. The most recent diesel are from the mid 2000s and the most recent electric is the Acela set. Its like nothing happened in the past 22 years to these companies. Mini rant over

[@joewoodchuck3824]

Companies concentrate on what sells. HO and then N are where it's at in popularity.

[@stevenspaziani9159]

A couple of my biggest issues with the model train industry is like you said "price" prices just keep going up and up and good locomotives are roughly $100.00 bucks, may not sound like a lot to some but if your a kid starting out in the hobby it can quickly become unaffordable very quickly and they may leave the hobby and play video games, you can swap them and or trade them for new or used games. I started in the hobby around 50 years ago with a Lionel set for Christmas and today I won't give you a plug nickel for that cheap chinese lionel junk, I have bought a few pieces but to me they are junk and not worth the money especially when it comes to repairing them. Lets leave it at that. As for HO which is what I do now, thank God I have been collecting parts and pieces for 45 years or so, but track has gotten out of this world expensive, switches are a bit pricey so I suggest you buy the good ones for only a couple bucks more (like Pico and a couple others) stay away from Atlas they are to expensive for what you get and I have a lot of derailments going over them, so many have been replaced with Pico, few to no issues with them. I don't use DCC, I have to many locomotives to convert and my layout is designed for straight DC. Biggest issue I have with that is the lack of power in the transformers on the market, In an old MRC add they say their power packs can run 15 locomotives, well, they might at a whopping scale 1mph, but I doubt that, so no more MRC power packs for me. I literally have had to build a power supply for my whole layout using a 30 amp 16 volt supply ( fused at 5 amps per main line ) ( I'm not that dumb ) I've built my own hand held controllers that will handle the power, but it sure would be nice if someone made power supply's with at least 5 amps at 16 to maybe 18 volts for those of us who like to run big trains with all powered locomotives. Last for now is the RP25 wheel flange. While prototypical it's fairly useless if you ask me, there's not enough weight in the cars to hold them to the track and the wheels fill up with crud and you lose 1/2 the flange and then the derailments start. So when I replace wheels usually with Kadee wheel sets I will take them apart and chuck them up in my lathe and make the flange deeper, barely noticeable to the naked eye but they run so much better. Well, I'm done ranting for now. Nice video by the way, TY.

[@elliotmeme8076]

Altruistic ideas, but business don't make money from altruism. Costs way more to obtain a new customer than keep an existing one. Existing modeler demand trends toward more functionality, detail, accuracy, etc which drives costs up. No guarantee even if you can get an affordable starter set into people's hands they will stick with the hobby long term. Most hobbies based on goods have high startup costs, just the way it is. More affordability would be great, I don't disagree with you. I simply do not believe manufacturers will actually do it.

[@stevenhedlund5009]

My biggest problem with model railroading is that a lot of the products are made in China. With the genocide and sweatshops and other bad things that the Chinese Communist Party is involved in. I don't want my trains to be made in China... so I buy as much made in the USA products that I can especially from Accurail.

[@davidlarge8894]

What I think is outrageous is take for example NCE powercab the beginners starter pack is about £150 in the uk but that will only poorly run 2 locos with sound now you have to buy the booster transformer which here can be up to £220 or more which gives you 5 amps power range .

[@trainman07011]

Model railroading's biggest problem may be the notion that DCC is a necessity. It's not. Nor is code 83 nickel silver track. Buy code 100 brass. Yes, you are going to have to clean it once a month with some alcohol pads. So what? Move on to some Athearn Blue Box locos and cars. Life-Like Proto 2000. Rivarossi steam. Accurail. (For saying this I may be hung for heresy) BUILD A SHAKE THE BOX KIT. Model railroading can be extremely affordable.

[@h3ndr1ck48]

I may be an outlier, but price has never been a problem, being a newer modeler, brick n mortar shops have been super unhelpful, to the degree of being told to use youtube, facebook. Thats me... though.

[@michaelbassett14]

I just got into N scale last year with the purchase of a Kato set that included a DC power pack, Dcc ready Gevo ES44AC locomotive, M1 track set, and their mixed freight set of cars. It’s a real bargain at $180.

[@sirclarkmarz]

i think one of the biggest price gouger's out there is woodland scenics especially their scenery material for what it is it's extremely overpriced . i will learn how to make most of that....lf for a fraction of what they charge .

[@forbeshutton5487]

A N scale Kato loco would cost $35 in 1985. Inflation calculators put that at $79 in todays dollars, so Kato is matching inflation. The increase in price beyond inflation comes from extra costs of finer details, more lighting (ditch lights), DCC and sound. Premium prices are charged for a premium product. Where the price increases are a bit unjustified is in rolling stock. Low and mid range rolling stock, without any increase in detail, have increased twice as fast as locomotives. One of the more frustrating changes is the short or limited run of models. Instead of a model coming to market and being available indefinitely the newer way, with limited supply increases prices as the cost or research, molding, etc is carried over a much smaller number of models, and as you say, by the time a consumer finds out about it, it's already sold out. I think even the current system may be outdated in 10 years. With 3d printing models could be printed to order, the only problem would be the painting of the model would still have to be done by a worker, but I can see robotic painters in the future, which would make producing models one at a time price effective for the consumer and with savings in warehousing and labor for the companies, the new way forward for them.

[@stephenyoung3721]

I understand your concerns but let’s think about the competition. Compare the prices to get into this hobby vs a decent set of golf clubs or a PS5.

[@tonyvink961]

Hi Jimmy. For me the entry point is DCC with good sound. It really changed the hobby for me. If I were king, I would drop DC only entirely and let DCC ( that can run on DC ) be the entry level. DCC ready locos already have a pc board so adding the parts to support basic DCC would be well under a dollar in cost. So the base price could be $80 instead of $79. I think the real profit makers are the sound decoder guys. Their "tooling" is firmware and it is expensive to develop but they don't have to make new firmware all that often. So their "tooling" cost is amortized over much more than a single logo production run. Bet they pay under $5 per decoder for parts and PCB assembly. Don't know what the Loco manufacturers pay for a decoder but I pay more to buy DC and upgrade than to buy a sound equipped loco in the first place. I am really impressed with the latest Atlas GE-Dash8... I got two for $159 each. Great detail and working ditch lights.

[@raymondleggs5508]

I'll stick with DC because locomotives old

[@jfturner73]

If you think model trains are expensive now, wait until China decides to stop honoring production contracts with all the major model railroad companies., and stops importing model trains to North America. They don't "play fair" when it comes to manufacturing, so anyone could get burned at any minute. It will take several years to shift production to another country, and in the end it will drive prices up. Already seen this in clothing manufacturing where China priced itself out of the market, and it took some time for Vietnam and Malaysia to acquire the machinery and tooling to replace production.

[@buyaport]

If you are on a tight budget you should rather buy a few quality items you are happy with instead of a heap of junk that makes you regret your buy. Avoid "cheap" starter packs, even kids aren't happy with them, so the items get replaced by better ones after a short while, which makes the starter pack a waste of money.

[@johnl2727]

Model railroading's biggest problem is that, like ham radio, the vast majority of people in the hobby are in their 60's or older. Everyone younger than that is on their PlayStation or PS4. I took my 8 year old grandsons (twins) to the Pittsburgh Science Center. It has a huge Lionel based layout. Their interest was really brief and was focused on the moving Ferris wheel. It was on to something with a video screen.

[@tczephyr3665]

I do agree with your suggestion that you try to find less expensive decoders with fewer features, if you can. My reason however is not about the cost but about the operator’s ability to remember all the different functions available and which button to push once you are passed the basics of horn, bell etc. If you have one engine it’s not a big deal, but when you have 25 it’s impossible to remember what type of decoder is in which engine. So, you run pretty basic functions. Now if I could only remember which button to push on which engine so that it calls out its speed 😊

[@bgm-1961]

Keep in mind that Model Railroading isn't alone in this regard! It's certainly not the only "complex" hobby which suffers from not only a high cost of accessibility, but also a high cost of continued engagement. Two of my other hobbies, Radio Controlled airplanes and "hobby" boardgaming take just as much as a percentage, out of my leisure budget. I mean, the cost of a DCC system is no different than a decent radio system for RC flying. The cost of locomotive is usually cheaper than the cost of a simple airplane. And the cost of several pieces of rolling stock and track is on par with the cost of all the other components required to fly RC aircraft. And for boardgaming... true... many good boardgames can be purchased for $50 - $60. But there are also MANY great boardgames which start at $100 and go up from there. So a gamer with a modest collection of let's say, only 10-20 boardgames will have put out the same money for a DCC system, track, and a good-sized train set with extra rolling stock. And likely more! And of course, there are other hobbies with similar cost barriers. So Model Railroading isn't alone.

[@henryostman5740]

Quite bitchin' about parts for model planes. I ditched the model part for a real one. Price out some new radio's for a Cessna. Many of them cost more than the plane did new.

[@rustymustard7798]

Lol, RC flying costs pennies on the entry level compared to trains. I mean you could spend MILLIONS on 1/3 scale turbine jets, but at the same time the barrier to entry is so low that you can start for way less than the cheapest locomotive he mentioned. A $20 transmitter isn't 'nice', but they work and the rest of the stuff for a variety of builds build will cost half that much for a glider, or the same for power.

[@userequaltoNull]

DCC accessibility is huge. As a kid, I always wanted to get into DCC, but all I could do was ask for the Bachman DCC playset and hope that my parents would spend $330. Since they never did, I drifted away from the hobby, and now I'm not sure I will ever get back into it.

[@sparky107107]

I think one of the great things about Scale Trains operator series, is, it starts a lot cheaper, BUT. you can purchase the detail sets to make them into Rivet counter looks at a later date, if you wish

[@SarahsAtticOfTreasures]

This was really a great post. Modeling in an expensive hobby. Sad, because it keeps many of us sane.

[@tczephyr3665]

It does and is way cheaper than seeking professional help 🙂

[@traintools585]

I'd like to see dummy diesel locomotives for running 2, 3, 4, or more locomotive together or distributed power in the middle and/or on the end without having to get all the locomotives dcc's matched to run the exact same speed and without motors and drives should be much cheaper than a dcc ready loco.

[@pmsteamrailroading]

I have never found matching speeds that big of a problem. The NCE system makes it fairly simple. And decoder pro makes it a snap.

[@ace0918]

COFFEE & TRAINS: The initial investment for an injection molding machine is expensive, however, each mold is not that much and multiple molds are typically used in each machine. The quality and detail in each mold has also dramatically increased since the late 1800s. Today consider each machine with multiple molds can spit out, a Boxcar, one after the other. It is only later that the car becomes a UP or AT&SF. The median salary in 1955 was $3,500.00, not quite $2.00 an hour. The median salary in 2022 was $54,000.00 about $27.00 an hour. Here comes the problem: That 1955 Boxcar, was manufactured from raw material to completed car by someone making about $2.00 an hour. Today the quality and quantity of Boxcars has increased, however, the completed Boxcar is not made by someone making $27.00 an hour but someone making, to be very generous, $2.00 an hour. Absolutely fantastic for a company's bottom line, but devastating for our O, HO, N, or Z line. Our cost of that Boxcar has risen with inflation, yet the manufacturing cost has declined dramatically. I was an R&D Engineer, then Manufacturing Engineer for Motorola in the mid '70s to early '80s and witnessed this first hand.

[@mattguey-lee4845]

I think joining a modular railroad club helps lower the cost of entry. They usually already have a DCC system they use. If you're doing t-trak then you only have to build 1x1 square to get started. Then you can focus more on getting a good first loco and some rolling stock. You should also go to train shows and swap meets to find deals on used rolling stock. If you go to these shows you can find cheap cars that have the older horn hook or rapido couplers and convert them to knuckle couplers to save money. I also used to see more car kits where you saved a little bit of money by doing the final assembly yourself. In n-scale I used to buy lots of roundhouse car kits for cheap this way.

[@raymondleggs5508]

knuckle couplers in anything under HO scale is approaching too little IMO. Imagine knuckles in Z scale or worse T!

[@BattleshipOrion]

Clubs help, but at the cost of imagination. Everything else is on par.with my argument against prices being as high as they are.

[@williamfritz189]

From my beginning in the hobby in l983 until quite recently, my primary focus has always been repairing stuff i found in the boxes under the tables at train shows. THEY are the salvation of the hobby. As a kid I had Lionel 027 but when my son was the same age, Lionel was about as affordable to me--with an IVY league degree--as an Audi. My main complaint would be the shoddy functioning design of the cheapo introductory kits,, Parents totally give up on the whole electric train idea if they don't discover the 8-wheel pickup and flywheel inertia that old Athearn gave us. One parent told me "I threw it out. All it did was make them cry.

[@RailRide]

Repairing HO stuff found in the "used box" is basically the entire premise behind SMT Mainline's channel :D. Although I'm too heavily invested in O Gauge to even think of adopting HO, I still find it entertaining watching him resurrect old starter-set locomotives sourced from the 'miscellaneous' bins at various hobby shops.

[@StevenFines13147]

All I really want is someone to give me a list of everything I need to dcc control points ...

[@wazzo8527]

I think that you are 100% correct with this being one of the biggest problems with model railroading. It took me about 10 years to finally man up and get a nice DCC loco and zephyr controller. I had a very difficult time spending so much on a single locomotive when I could get 3 or 4 of the same model in DC for the same price at a train show. Now that I have DCC and sound I'm completely hooked but with the massive gap in price, that transition was a hard decision to make. (at least for me)

[@dda40x]

I think it definitely hurts that model railroading (especially with DCC) is priced so that it isn't really available for kids and teenagers. The demand is there, as things like train simulators or Thomas the Tank Engine shows. I'm not a huge fan of either, but they are definitely popular. Sure, there are lots of more expensive hobbies out there, but that doesn't mean the current pricing is great. The cheap DCC start set is definitely a great idea. I'd argue that for a start set like this, something very similar to DCC++Ex would probably be the way to go, just in the form of a professional made single board and power supply that puts all the parts together for you already. It's all open source, so this shouldn't even be that hard. The important point is that in this day and age, for a cheap start set, I wouldn't include any controller. Using an existing smartphone is going to be much cheaper. If people want physical controls, that's an upgrade they can always buy later. For the locomotives, most of the DCC equipped ones I know come with a normal lighting board with a standard DCC plug, and then either a normal DCC decoder or a sound decoder plugged into it. I'm fairly certain you could make the locomotives cheaper if you designed a lighting board that always includes a DCC decoder. That way they could use cheap large components, because the lighting board typically has more space, and there's better economies of scale. Of course, that makes it difficult to offer a sound version, and I suspect the sound versions of locomotives have very nice margins for the manufacturers.

[@FreihEitner]

I am happy that rivet counter and genesis and rapido and other super-detailed equipment is available for those who want it, but I had major sticker shock coming from model railroading in the late 1980s as a kid, when $80 bought a rather nice Athearn blue box or Atlas loco (DC) with reasonable detail and good quality, into recently looking back into it and finding prices of $200+ for similar units, and a hundred more for DCC. And yeah, fairly certain I used to get Athearn and Con-Cor ready to run cars for sub-$20.

[@philipboyle8261]

Thank you so much for raising this issue. It is far worse in the UK. Not surprisingly, the hobby is declining and fewer clubs are now left.

[@lordmalachi6]

I like how many of the same people who spout "Model railroading is and always was an expensive hobby, deal with it" as if they're some type of gatekeepers are also the ones who grew up on Blue Box kits and doing the modeling themselves instead of buying RtR, and will bemoan newcomers for only buying RtR and not knowing how to do your own model work, because that's all that's offered anymore... The level of hypocrisy is just astounding. Model Railroading does not need to be expensive, just let us have kits again. Just because you've been lucky enough to retire on a fat pension and can afford RtR Rivet Counter stuff doesn't mean everyone else can, or more importantly, should need to just to partake in the hobby. It's actually one of the reasons I've switched to British modeling, $8 Peco kits and some paint? Yes please.

[@BattleshipOrion]

I agree. I started in June of 2013 with the Bachmann Santa Fe Flyer set. 6 months later, I'm getting a new locomotive, and the shop tried to push DCC. I had an after school model train group, the primary group members wanted Wabash, and NS, we wanted a different taste, western roads. The group abandoned us to our own devices. Which was more of a bonus. We got into model cars, tanks, and ships. I only talk to maybe 3 or 4 of the original 12. Only one is considering coming back, the rest rather stay in there current model collections. It's gatekeeping, and lack of perspective. I'm keeping with US railroads, but found that I like the BR86, and BR52 steam engines. Both are really nice when pulling tanks, and NOT the other "cargo".

[@japethstevens8473]

Your prices in the US are insanely cheap! But the US dollar always goes further in the US. We cannot contemplate those prices in Europe, and Brexit-blighted Britain in particular. Remember that you always get what you pay for: you must be careful not to start a race to the bottom. FYI: I started with Marklin - now those prices are truly insane!

[@CraftyFoxe]

Indeed, I was curious about European trains and they sure do cost a lot more. I think it has to do with higher taxes and that some manufacture them in the EU rather than China. I do wish there was more availability in HO scale though, some trains are not made anymore and quite rare. NS VIRM would be cool

[@zachphil0405]

Really enjoying your videos and love your ideas about track layouts! I bought a Bachmann DCC starter set for $350 last month (Jan 2023). You're correct that if was $200, I would have purchased more items to get my layout moving along. Keep up the great videos. BTW, my go to coffee is the Great Value Breakfast Blend. Looking forward towards many more of your tutorials.

[@indiananotch8204]

Hey jimmy,I agree and sets or budget buys can help. The cost of manufacturing and materials are sky rocketing and we pay for it in the end. I prefer train shows and ebay. I just recently picked up 2 kato sd70ace's for $100 and 18 atlas frieght cars for $25. Keep pushing forward my friend. Bogota sunrise and 5 creamers😁😁

[@thomaslemay8817]

The biggest problem I see is not money. It is snobbish attitudes. I have stopped going to the local club because of people making disparaging comments about other people's trains . I fully believe if the person running the train likes his or her train. The train is perfect it does not matter what numbers are on it . Does not matter if it's got the wrong horn on it . I don't even care if the railroad had one locomotive of the type and they changed the number halfway through service life and someone is running both versions of the same locomotive with both numbers on them, I don't care . If you want everything on your train absolutely historically correct and perfectly detailed that's wonderful but don't insult others because they don't have the same compulsions . That attitude is the reason model railroad like the Gorre & Depfetid existed! The purpose of any hobby is to have fun ! Not look for fault in others .

[@DIYDigitalRailroad]

I think you will like this video from last year then! kzbin.info/www/bejne/noOznKWiqcpgaM0

[@alexnefi]

As a European, seeing these prices makes me jealous. H0 scale locomotives from roco or Märklin are anywhere between 200 and 400 euros...

[@FelixvonMontfort]

Same here

[@StevenFines13147]

I will say I got a Kato F6 and 3 PCs of rolling stock dcc equipped (not ready, equipped) for 230. I got a piko dcc base station for a little over 250 and an oval's worth of atlas track for 50, so you're looking at 600$ for that basic system right now.

[@StevenFines13147]

I just re-started in the hobby this month.. did it as a kid with my dad in HO scale and this time around decided on N scale.

[@kge420]

I’m retired and watch my spending. Have been able to find some good used items on eBay. Don’t mind if if my equipment is used just mind if it doesn’t run right. I’ve put together a DCC++ system so I’m also in to the control side for a very low cost.

[@michaelmeiran1556]

I started in the hobby because my wife suggested I get a hobby to fill some time. I started out with a starter Bachmann DCC set then decided if I was going to do it I just needed to jump in. I have a 12'x4' N scale layout that has three main lines, 10 locos, 100 pieces of rolling stock and have fully landscaped and completed the layout. I've put over $10k into the layout and as everyone knows, it's never done! I'm now looking to add signaling and other details as well as possibly adding another section of the same size. I'm budgeting $5,000 since I have learned a lot about where to get good used products or lower priced new products. This certainly isn't a hobby for someone with limited funds if they are looking to build a decent size layout.

[@lawrenceechols6453]

Great video man thank you very much

[@ChockHolocaust]

An inexpensive option is to go virtual, with a train sim; there are lots of these and they do let people get into the hobby in a simulated virtual fashion for not much money at all, so it is in no way a hobby which is completely closed off to those with limited finances providing they have a computer or a mobile device. Train sims can be useful for planning a physical layout too of course, but they are something one can enjoy just for what they are with little in the way of scope limitation. Now granted, they do not give you the basic visceral feeling of having something in your hand which physical railroad modeling offers, or making things with actual glue, paint and craft materials which is a big part of railroad models for many people, but you can 3D model these things virtually if you have the inclination, and as noted, it does supplant that 'hands-on' disadvantage with many other plus points, not least of which is cost, however, of more benefit than this is the fact that one is in no way limited by size for a layout - you can build or buy a layout the size of the real thing if you like with literally hundreds of miles of track if you want to - and then you can actually 'sit in' the locomotive and drive it from that viewpoint if you wish, so in this sense it is more realistic than a physical scale model railroad and offers something a physical model railroad cannot. Back with physical model railroads, another problem which you did not touch on is that generally speaking, the smaller you go in scale, the more expensive it tends to get, even though it does allow one to go for more prototypical layouts within a finite space. I found this out fairly recently when I got to building a Z scale layout; if you think HO scale models and track are pricey, have a look at what some of that Z scale stuff costs - I think my Z scale layout track alone was getting into the several hundred quid mark purely because of the cost of turnouts since it has thirteen of the things on it, and their small size means they are more difficult to manufacture of course, with a price commensurate with that production difficulty. What can mitigate that to some degree is things like ebay, where if you keep an eye open you can find things at more amenable pricing, but to get even a reasonably decent sized freight train in Z scale is not something you can expect to do for anything less than several hundred notes. What always helps of course, as with any hobby really when it comes to reducing the cost of it, is if one is good at making things, which fortunately I am so this is something I do and enjoy. But since this is something which certainly can help people to reduce costs it is why, if this is a mission you care to champion in the hopes of making things less expensive to get into, it would be good to do videos about how one can make a lot of stuff from basic crafting materials and ingenuity, rather than simply buying model kits. An example of this would be printing model fascias on a basic PC printer paper, then sticking these to simple card or balsa boxes and embellishing them with a few glued on bits cut from more card or balsa. Salvaged clear packaging glued on the inside of such creations can mean you are able to glaze such models for next to nothing and a lot of the time these will be as good, if not better than any kit one might purchase. It won't make rolling stock and track cheaper, but it will mean that money can go on those rather than purchasing a ton of model kits. With regard to DCC being expensive, whilst that is true and DCC is nice, it's not compulsory, and it is as well to remember that you can have a nice model layout which uses more basic control. After all, at one point a few years ago, none of us had any DCC control and it didn't stop us from enjoying things, so this too is something you might have cause to champion for those looking at getting into things on a budget, because there is the argument that with a small basic layout of perhaps a small railroad or branch line operation, it's actually more realistic to not have dozens of trains whizzing about all over the place. Yes we all like having tons of locos and rolling stock, but it isn't necessary to still have fun; just a simple oval with a siding to a small shunting yard and an industry for it to serve - even an imagined one off through some tunnel somewhere - is all that is necessary for a layout one can enjoy with nothing more than one or two locomotives and a few box cars, and that shouldn't cost anyone too much to piece together.

[@andrewwilliams4130]

Great video, agree with everything you said. To encourage younger people to the hobby on a budget or even someone with a small family and a mortgage that doesn’t have loads of cash to splash.

[@jjrusy7438]

I love trains. Then i started looking at the prices of every little thing that goes into the hobby. One turnout, including the switch motor, control, etc is a ton of money. One car is $30 minimum. I was talking to my sis about my beautiful 70 foot long basement room that is screaming for a layout, and we got laughing about the price of one little figure or one little model automobile. NFW (no effing way) would i even consider even STARTING up in this expensive hobby. it's actually a relief that the prices are so stupidly prohibitive that i have no remorse deciding to walk away and never look back. ps congratulations, your video here is the last train hobby video i ever plan on watching. i'm done with it. and no, other hobbies dont just keep bleeding you until you are done. i could buy several thousand$ of music gear ONE TIME and i am done. a railroad is never done. best of luck to all those with the cash. you have great layouts and beautiful scenery.

[@tudrow6087]

The thing that gets me is this. Some of the molds they use have paid for them selves over and over again. But are still pulling a equal price as the new molds.

[@dotbmp]

I recently just got into the hobby as a north American living in Germany. I'd love DCC start sets that include the locomotive, base station, some rolling stock, but an option without track so I can buy my own track separate but still get all the other bits I needed. I also find it crazy how inexpensive north American trains are, you are looking at 200euro and up for a locomotive with a decoder in it, and you are getting much less detailed and prototypical trains. They sell a specific locomotive and all of them have the exact same number and there are zero customization options. The hobby here is less into that sort of realism/prototypical building then compared to north America. Base stations are 200+ euro basically. I'd love to see more prototypical options in the European market, and I'd love to see the prices come down a lot.

[@turboseize]

@Da Bolaños But Märklin track is ugly...

[@melkitson]

Fleischman are doing great, good value starter sets in Germany which ship throughout Europe. Don't need the track, Bin it. You still get good value for money.

[@dda40x]

To some degree it's different priorities. There are not a lot of consists here, so few german model railroaders will ever have more than one of the same type of locomotive, and it's okay that it's only sold with one number. But yeah, the prices are insane.

[@miketalcott5180]

Hey Jimmy: when one takes into account that “starting” for many of us happened in the ‘60s and ‘70s. My buying power followed my minimum wage paycheck starting at $1.90/hr. A five-fold increase has happened since. My Bachman trains (a set plus extra cars and locos) was wonderfully done, and had RP-25 wheels, brass rails, etc. The “cheap” AHM or Tyco cars could be had for $1 or $2. The had the huge flanges, talgo truck-mounted Horn-hook couplers, and variable quality. But the “low end” is relatively speaking, about as affordable now as it was then. Brass locos of the ‘70s were simply not affordable. Athearn blue box were the go-to “good” stuff and I think I paid $5 a car and $25 a loco. I bought one of the new, good Atlas SD-40s at $45, and that was big $$$. Of course, the PFM platform was the only sound alternative and it was never affordable. And the kind of computer-aided control we have was a Science Fiction story. Pete’s Costa Rica, with double real cream this morning. Thanks!

[@timosha21]

Ding ding! I'm a tram and I approve this video! Great footage!!

[@woodalexander]

I think the key is to understand that you don't need a ton of locomotives or a whole yard of rolling stock to start off with. One nice sound equipped locomotive, a DCC system, and a small shelf layout is a great way to start without spending a fortune. Trying to make everything slightly cheaper doesn't really accomplish much, and for the DCC system, DCC++EX already offers a much cheaper system. For an out of the box system, the Digitrax Zephyr and Digikeijs DR5000 are both an amazing value.

[@markmcdowell231]

I got back in to my train collection I thought I lost every thing but when we moved I found what was left . When I got in to the hobby you could by car kits and put them to gather for I it was a lot of fun . There are hobby shop's on line that seal good price DC Locomotive new . I known dcc is the way to go but it is the price . What type of track bed should you use I got foam to start with mostly do to the price cork cost so much money I heard cork rots out ? The nests hobby shop is over 1 hour one way plus I live on a fixed income

[@massmike11]

I know its a skill, but a dcc decoder can be installed into just about anything with just a little space in it. It doesn’t have to be a dcc ready unit. Again I realize it takes some skill. Also MRC has a nice bigginer handheld dcc set

[@claytons8263]

Great video you are right on for having mixed car set. I'm new to this 4months in. I would like to see your opinion on cost and difference's in proto, Broadway limited,kato or your top 10 engines to buy weather be diesel or steam. I decided to go with Athearn and Proto I've been watching diff videos and I'm thinking of selling my promontory version of the Big Boy and buying a Broadway limited. What is your opinion on the top of the line (best) and the bottom of the line (worst) I know there's a lot but you can choose which to answer.Trains are like cell phones to freezing many of them when it comes in DCC I have FCC and DC. You could make a mini series of what a beginner goes through before he buys his/ her first Engine. Thank you Great video.

[@NicksCollectableCreations]

This has been a growing problem in the last decade. 10 years ago Bachmann with DCC could be had for $59. Their DCC sucked but that is beside the point. Locomotives for the most part still have stuff in the $100 price range but it is the rest of the cast that costs a lot. Rolling stock, track, switches not to mention the DCC stuff itself.

[@sturnie1]

I met a guy at my local railroad shop he said he has already spent thousands on a dozen engines and hundreds of cars and he still doesn't have a track set up. I started dc and now have dcc dropped in my own decoders and bought a few dcc sound equipped.

[@slumpdogyt]

They should make a DCC Starter Set with everything to get going even if it's a $400 set. I mean DCC controller, track, DCC equipped loco, and some cars in one affordable kit ready to go out of the box. If they all did that it would be better, nobody wants a train system where you can only run one train at a time that's boring.

[@13squier]

I agree! The European brands make sets like that, e.g. Minitrix sells digital starter sets that start around $300US.

[@slumpdogyt]

@@13squier yeah but those sets in the USA don't include a already programmed dcc engine

[@UFO4X]

Excellent video! Don’t forget Model Power. They sell some pretty decent, not as detailed, but still nice rolling stock at a very affordable price. I’ve seen them as low as $6 or $7, but usually in the $10 range. I happen to have an MRC Tech 6. The only downfall I’ve experienced with the unit, is that you can’t double head engines in opposite directions. They try to pull each other in the opposite direction. Don’t know if there’s a fix for that, if you know if one let me know, please. lol. I really enjoy watching your channel and I’m also a big coffee connoisseur! Happy model railroading!

[@PaulSmith-pl7fo]

Hi Jimmy. Happy New Year, by the way. I think you are pretty much spot on. The hobby IS expensive, but I think manufacturers and suppliers are rather blinkered in these cash-strapped times. In the UK we have OO gauge (scale), which is the nearest we have to HO scale (we DO import HO scale items). One of our major manufacturers is Hornby and they have recently announced their 2022 range and they are just trying to price themselves out of the market, or they're just testing their loyal customers who constantly buy their models (they are by no means perfect for the high price they charge!). This is no way to entice new modellers into the hobby.

[@melkitson]

Hornby have been ripping off the market for as long as I have been alive.(68years) They have the market in the UK but they need to beware of the cheaper Chinese imports.

[@thetrainroom]

If you do European models you should be happy to find any locomotive bellow 200€. And if you have Märklin plan to spend 300 € and upwards. If I want to save money, I buy I used model, mostly from people which just left the stuff 20 years in the original package. Then I put the decoder myself in. I always here that people ask me if it isn't to expensive: Then I explain, that I'm using the locomotive for many decades. And that the hobby going out and having party is also every expensive (t least in Norway) and that you have nothing afterwards except a headache, but we will many year joy on our trains. Or I met once a guy at my local dealer, and he complained that his wife had an even more expensive hobby: Having a horse. Please stop scaring people that putting a decoder in a locomotive is a difficult thing: I'm trying to explain my viewers that it is easy, if done step by step in a organized manner.

[@evileyeball]

The thing I have issue with about getting into this hobby is not the expense of the models and equipment.... I don't have space in my house at present for a layout and a bigger house is not in the cards lol.

[@TweetsieRailroader]

5:59 Oh! You’re an App State guy? Both of my parents were as well! I make many a visit to Boone on a frequent basis. Also, excellent video! I model in O Gauge, which has been making strides in recent years to make command control easy and affordable. (However, with the size of the trains, a new locomotive can run you at least $200. There are very few models you can find cheap.) As for coffee, I don’t drink a lot of coffee, but when I do, I’ll drink good ol’ Moravian Lovefeast Coffee. There’s plenty of cream and sugar in that!

[@anb740]

Athearn is the absolute worst offender on prices. Every time they come out with another locomotive, they tack on another $10-20 on the price tag. Now sound/DCC are reaching $370! For ONE locomotive! And the quality is nowhere near that of Scaletrains which are much less. Athearn lost my business long ago.

[@LRSX]

Great video Jimmy, you hit great points. I think it's important to research, research, and research. Stay away from highly wanted out of production items.. Paying attention to the new releases and preorders I'd very important to save money. And as you showed, lombards is amazing on there prices! Saving money and bbuying a few things at once and shipping only once can save alot too. Take care!

[@dorsenator]

I have been dreaming about getting into the hobby, and recently pulled the trigger on my starting setup. I look forward to playing around with DCC, dipping my toes in scenery, and most of all running trains! Drinking Starbucks Pike Place black (in the middle of the night lol)

[@cooltrainsinmontreal4883]

I prefer to buy freight cars individually, as a set thats mixed inevitably I'd have to buy a car I don't want along with the ones I do want. Maybe if the set is for all one railroad, but even then it won't be as diverse a freight car collection as when you find one you like at a good price. ALSO, buying one car in N Scale at 20 bucks at a time can be more affordable than blowing 80 bucks on a set of 5 cars all at once, spreading the cost out over time makes the cost bearable

[@mikecoviello5410]

Hi Jimmy: You are talking about MSRP for the trains for the beginner. New railroader's go to hobby shops for their trains. Train sets could be priced in your range and the hobby shop should get the MSRP so to stay in business. The replies here about train shows, Ebay and online stores the newbie probably doesn't know. Do you think the manufacturer will do a high number product run or to make reservations for the product? I think a reasonable price is good but most people here are looking for deals and missed the point. One thing todays teenagers are interested in their cell phones and how much does that cost.

[@digitalcareline]

I feel that a manufacturer may be concerned that the budget model will be hammered in "Everything wrong with...." style reviews. It would be a financial disaster to produce something which instantly got a poor reputation. As a dealer (Based in the UK) I would love to see the reviews before I order and pay for the goods - unfortunately we are now ordering years in advance of delivery and you can only return a few items before it damages your account with a manufacturer

[@ModelTrainsAutomation]

Better stay with DC 😎

[@CatHeadKnows53]

As for affordable equipment, I would add to your list "dummy" B units for the F and E locomotives - I myself don't need my B units to be powered, which drives the price up. Make it an option for those who want or need them powered. As for my coffee, today, it's just Folgers Half-Caf, 2 sugars and oat milk. My favorite coffee is Deans Beans roasters in Orange, Massachusetts, which I have been drinking since the mid-90s! Love the videos and your willingness to video your process and thoughts!

[@clevelandmaker386]

Oh my god...here go .....THE PRICES ARE TO DAMN HIGH... NOBODY SAID ACCURATE HAS TO BE CHEAP BUT HELL...199.00 FOR AN ACE? 5 CAR WELLS FOR 120.00 COME ON.... Affordability is always the issue

[@blaness13]

I can understand the cost in building a quality model, with good fitment, smooth operating motors, and highly detailed parts, and i can see what that is expensive to a point, But DCC should be cheap as hell, to the point of every loco having it, it's basically the same as it was in the late 90's/early 2000's as it is now, the difference is that you can buy a smart phone for the price of DCC hardware, and to do to do what, active some LED's, play some low res audio files, and send a current to a motor, it's not that hard of stuff. I really think it comes down to most people in the hobby don't know a lot about computer chip manufacturing and how power even a raspberry pie computer is, and the companies that make this hardware know that and act like it's bleeding edge, I also don't know of any competing standard, so there is no drive for cheaper prices or innovation in this world.

[@yonbear1]

Hi Jimmy, thanks for all your efforts. I have recently decided to start in the hobby at the age of 70. My concern with expense is the exchange rate between Australia and the USA plus postage. This can actually double the price of some stock for us down here. I am gradually easing in buying a few items and will look at bulk purchases to save on postage if possible. The hard part is finding suitable N scale loco's for a logging & coal operation in the late 30's - early 40's. Still, all part of the fun I guess. Keep up the good work.(I drink Moccona #8 coffee) Cheers, Andy

[@johnniejackson3154]

What scale should I buy if I'm going off of a 1:24 scale dollhouse?

[@michaelmorgan7893]

The only issue I find about model railroading is that if you want to model a working signal system, is the fact that there is no plug and play type signal system compatible with straight DC like I operate. Now that Atlas no longer offers a block detector in their new updated all scale signal system, the claim that Atlas Signal System being compatible for DC is no longer true. So I have to seek out another manufacturer for signal control devices that operate common cathode (which the modern stuff no longer does) or wire everything myself through panels and switches. Anyway thats the drawback I find in modern model railroading. I haven't the desire or the money to convert over 100 locomotives I've collected over 40 years to DCC, just to run a signal system.

[@BenRichards227]

So if you actually do an inflation analysis, you find that....nothing is wrong. At least in the O scale world. If you look at a Lionel catalog from the 50's, you find freight cars for $7.95. If you run that through an inflation calculator, you find that $7.95 in 1956 equals about $81 in 2021. And what does Lionel charge these days for a plain vanilla freight car? $79.99. You know what IS too expensive, though? TRACK.

[@briankistner4331]

$200 for a KATO locomotive. Wayyyyyyyyyy back in the day for $200 one could build a 4 X 8 layout with a engine, cars, scenery items, and a few buildings. I was heavily into model railroading but it way too pricy. I switched to train simulators. A large line of free items and payware at good prices. And one can get a whole lot with some of the payware items. BLW offers sets with maybe 50 pieces of equipment for under $40. Can that be achieved with model railroad manufactures? NO WAY NO HOW!

[@darthazgorath9570]

Steam should also be cheaper. I know development is difficult, but with all the 0-6-0's 2-8-2's and so on, the market is saturated with steam locomotives, but they are pricey.

[@WillJamesRailways]

Completely agree with you on this mate, here in Australia we pretty well have no basic/starter sets and people who are now starting out in the hobby are put off by the price! Especially DCC.

[@TallboyDave]

Yeah, and when you factor currency conversion into account, model railways are obscenely expensive; like here in New Zealand, the cheapest Hornby or Bachmann OO-gauge wagons (like a four-wheeled closed van or a mineral wagon) cost at least $50-$60 NZD; coaching stock generally starts around $80 NZD a pop; and the cheapest, smallest and most basic locomotives (the outright 'toy train' level things) won't give you much change out of $150 NZD.

[@tommythomason6187]

I always considered the late 1980s and early 1990s to be a good time for model railroaders on a tighter budget. The trainset distributors and manufacterers, Model Power, Life-Like, and then Bachmann, began offering quality N-scale locomotives at a low price. The body shells were better-detailed, both trucks were powered, and they came with stout 5-pole motors, except Model Power's F40PH, or RSD15, which were equipped with a bigger Mabuchi 3-pole armature. Before the re-power, the Model Power offerings were badly lacking. Those engines aren't as good as what's available now, but they were less than $30.00 and one could really build some engine lashups, for the model railroad, in short order.

[@brianz.4876]

If I could add my 2 cents here, I wasted so much money trying to keep the costs down by buying DC locomotives. DC is fine but will only hold your interest for a short time. DCC with sound adds an entire new dimension to modeling. So, do this buy a Kato SD70 or a SD40, SD45 to start. You will get a great running locomotive for under $100. When you are ready you can easily upgrade that same locomotive with an MRC/XL sound decoder for around $60-70. The best news is this is a true plug and play decoder. When I say it's easy to install, I mean 10 mins tops. And this was the first decoder I ever installed! No soldering, no frame modification, all you do is slide the old decoder back and pull out and slide the new decoder in and forward. The speaker is built right into the board. It's not the Loksound decoder but it really gives good sound. Plus keep your eyes open for deals. I picked up a Bachmann with value sound from MTS for under $100 ($149-179 now). I got a Broadway F3 for $149 from MTS also. The most expensive locomotive I bought was a Broadway Limited Heavy Mikado for $189 and that sale did not last long. Now I can't find them for under $239. So, try not to spend too much on DC locomotives if you don't want to upgrade by replacing the decoder. Spend a little more on a locomotive that will keep you interested and make you happy. You will never be happy taking shortcuts on locomotives. Always be aware of sales. Many stores will have lower prices on their sites than you can find on eBay! You have to keep checking sites for deals. If you see a great deal buy it! Chances are it won't last long!