DM Rips Off Star Wars

[@magicalhermitcrab5912]

I'm glad that you addressed the whole "brutally honest" part, because it was the first thing on my mind when OP felt the need to highlight that. Using "brutal honesty" as like a badge of pride is a red flag.

[@solouno2280]

No surprise why he has to pay... None wants him at the table

[@TwighlightLugia]

What's that quote about how no one ever seems to use "brutal honesty" as a reason to be complimentary to people? 🤔

[@bradymenting5120]

amazing how people who are described as "brutally honest" only shit on other people's work without apologizing when someone actually has both negative AND positive things to say, they're just referred to as "honest"

[@Owch-]

Bro is PAYING to sit at a table that is being run by a DM who blatantly copied Star wars and sprinkled it with some pseudo-magic flavour. Idk but if you are getting paid 150 per SESSION and expect to be praised for your work or not have at least some criticism, that tells a lot more about you than OP and the rest of the table.

[@Qilue2179]

@@Owch- That is fair criticism. But the problem tends to be that people who call themselves "Brutally honest" are the kind of people who want to hide behind honesty as a reason to be an outright asshole instead of actually thinking about and presenting their criticism in a constructive and helpful way. It is the difference between a guy pulling his friend to the side to tell him there is a stain on the seat of his pants and standing in the middle of a room and shouting "Hey Steve! looks like you shit yourself!" both are being Honest, but on is 100x Better than the other.

[@SithBunny1]

First story: OP is the AH, but not for the reasons he thinks. There were five other players at that game, and OP just focuses on his own disgust about the rehashed Star Wars plot. He paid $25, but so did five other people. At what point did OP ever try to ask anyone else if they felt the same way as him? If six players join, and five players don't complain about the plot, then it's kind of understood that they want to play that plotline.

[@WolforNuva]

That or at least are mature enough to wait for after the session to bring up their problems.

[@TwighlightLugia]

Honestly I gotta hard disagree with "both people" being the assholes here. I can't possibly imagine what the DM did to make him an asshole, other than I guess not refunding the money. Which, to be quite honest with you, if it were me I would _also_ probably keep brutally honest prick's money and use it to help refund the other 4. Call it the asshole tax.

[@travishester6859]

@@TwighlightLugiamaybe OP should’ve looked into the DM more, maybe seeing what sort of world he was to play in, idk. But if I paid good money to replay a Star Wars movie I’d be pissed too. OP is nta, the DM is an unoriginal loser who shouldn’t be getting paid. He should be banned from the site for not coming up with his own story

[@vladgdc]

@@travishester6859 all you said would be true if the DM was honest about the setting and had not promised an original plot. I don't know if he did or not but judging by his Vader response I assume he did promise an originl plot or at least did not communicate on the subject. (A better response when confronted with the acusation that his red sword wielding Black Knight is Vader is to say that, "yes, he is vaderesque, inspired by Vader but don't you want to play and see what twists I've added?")

[@rileystar2245]

My main problem is that they didn't address things w/the DM sooner, & in a much more respectful/mature way. Instead of speaking up right away & simply saying "Hey, from what u just described it sounds like ur just going 2 run us through the plot of Star Wars. That isn't what I was told the game was going 2 b & I'm not rlly interested in that, so I would like 2 just get my money back & opt out of this now." which would have allowed them 2 avoid being bored & dissatisfied w/out making things unpleasant 4 every1, they decided 2 stay in the game just so they could inflict their bad attitude on every1 else. Now, the DM didn't handle things well either, cuz when OP got pissy about the Darth Vader knock off they could have just said, "I'm sorry ur not having fun, but this is what I prepared 4 this. If it isn't ur thing that's totally alright. Why don't I just give u a refund & u can leave?" which would have kept things from escalating as much as they did, but I can also understand the DM losing their cool if OP had been trying 2 derail things & being moody the whole time, which OP kind of implied was the case.

[@hiro4344]

Yeah I got the same vibe when the guy said "I'm the brutally honest one." that to me is code for "I'm the asshole." Even if the game was ripped from star wars directly, honestly if the others were having fun I would say let it be. Maybe some people dream of playing through that exact scenario? The DM gave OP chances to leave if he wasn't having fun and OP stuck around to continuously be a jackass and disruptive to the game rather than be mature and make his grievance known after the session.

[@ArcCaravan]

Definitely would have made OP look better to just ask for a refund earlier instead of potentially ruining the other players' time. Though DM's stubborn insistence that the campaign is not a rip off Star Wars and the black knight with red sword isn't Darth Vader still looks bad.

[@emberfist8347]

I agreed the moment he did the "this is terrorism" crap. I hate seeing that argument. The fortress/Death Star is a valid military target and so is anyone on it.

[@ArcCaravan]

I honestly doubt OP actually agreed with that argument, just using it to see if the DM is just railroading the paying party into reenacting Star Wars or if alternate paths were possible. Doesn't help that this version may not have established this empire as deserving of overthrowing.@@emberfist8347

[@flameofmage1099]

Was the DM right to do that? Arguable. Dud it deserve that kind of reaction? No. Though if I was the DM I might have refunded the money.

[@MadkingLeviticus]

Agreed. That OP seemed like a self righteous prick through and through. Only fault I take with the DM is not kicking them sooner to salvage what they could of the session for the rest of the players, and (potentially) for not refunding the $25

[@gwammeh]

Honestly, while recreating Star Wars beat by beat isn't a *great* look for the DM, I believe him when he says OP was completely ruining the game for everyone else. When telling the story, even OP doesn't note that anyone else seemed bored or upset with DM, and even just reading the story OP sounds kind of exhausting.

[@WlatPziupp]

Considering how OP described himself it wouldn't surprise me a bit if the similarities to star wars were far smaller and further apart than he made it seem

[@cop5144]

Notice aswell that while its 'ripping off starwars' its doing so in the most vague and broad storybeats ever. This entire thing could be ripping off about 20 different movies/books. Take the darth vader encounter for an example, if it was a rip off of starwars thats where their DM NPC would have engaged darth in order to give them time to flee. Theres no mention of them infiltrating in some sort of vehicle, no mention of Leia and the trash compactor, no mention of the tractor beams needing to be disabled. Instead its "There is a magical weapon in a castle where the princess is being held, she has information on how to destroy the weapon, we must rescue her" and otherwise the motif of black armour and a flaming sword IS WHAT DARTH VADER WAS BASED OFF, not the otherway around. This whole thing strikes me as a reddit troon complaining about nothing and ruining the game for everyone else involved.

[@cyruscrompton8221]

​@@cop5144a reddit WHAT

[@cop5144]

@@cyruscrompton8221 Troon, aka a mentally ill guy in makeup.

[@crawdkenny]

The tension was palpable? More like palpatine-able

[@certifiedbotfighter3594]

Ba-dum tsss

[@Shoyro]

*deep breath* Just give me a second. *Cringes*

[@henryhere]

"somehow, the tension returned"

[@coyotejag7427]

@@henryhere "Powerful resurrection spells? Secrets only the wizards knew?"

[@brianconley7046]

HEY-OOO!

[@anacsadder]

8:20 The irony of OP accusing the DM of being the arbiter of fun, while OP is trying to be the arbiter of fun for everyone else at the table, is palpable.

[@MyFrogEatsPeople]

Seriously! I wanna play a D&D rehash of Star Wars. Why does OP get to decide that isn't fun?

[@lordbalthosadinferni4384]

To quote my totally original, $25 per session per player game: "Ironic"

[@erin8050]

His reaction at very end has the same energy as "Annnd that's enough internet for one day."

[@ZorotheGallade]

"Take us out on an adventure, Dungeon Daddy!" "Enough! Stop with that nickname or I swear I'll drop the highest level monster I can find in the Waifu Manual on your ass"

[@ArcCaravan]

​@@ZorotheGalladeAre you threatening them with a good time?

[@shadiafifi54]

@@ArcCaravan Poor Dungeon -Daddy- Master. Can't get a break.

[@kairos3855]

That second story with the guy "winning D&D" felt.......off. It had the same vibe as those "and then everybody clapped" stories. Most people aren't just logic'd to silence like that.

[@Chatedh]

I felt the same thing! To me it was obviously a fake story

[@Leongon]

Witness testimony is the flimsiest kind of evidence for a reason. A lot of these stories are clearly presented with multiple layers of make up even when the were based on real experiences.

[@robertsampson537]

Yeah I was calling B.S on that one too. Sounds like someone had a fake scenario in their head and wanted to sound cool for the internet.

[@Syurtpiutha]

Not to mention, if this was noobs first experience with D&D, way to turn someone away from the game. 'Had to be done' is questionable.

[@robertsampson537]

@@Syurtpiutha "This person who has never played before is being a murder hobo, better embarrass them so I look cool"

[@chaos4654]

To be fair... the tropes/concepts surrounding the Death Star are pretty fun to use all at once; 1. Enormous superweapon the heroes wanna raid and disable/destroy. 2. Rescue a captive or number of captives. 3. A dangerous enforcer of the Big Bad shows up to stop the heroes. 4. Big explosion.

[@DaxOrien]

Too bad the DM sucked nuggets and couldn't figure out a way to turn that into something unique or even remotely transformative. There HAD to be a princess in the dungeon at the fort? There HAD to be a black knight with a red sword? The OP brought up valid points and the DM should've read the room. He was made. The con was discovered. Hell, randomizing it could've been fun. When you want $25 a head, you better be pretty good and not a copy paste jagoff. Everything you said was loose enough that it should be the template for those trying to copy SW. Weapon. Victims/captives. Right hand to or is the BBEG trying to stop you. Big explosion. It's perfect. You can even mix it up a bit and put the explosion first and do a retaliation plot. Anything! This guy was lazy.

[@taylordwatson]

As a DM I borrow from many trope/stories. But if you can't even be the least bit transformative in the opening few session of the campaign AND YOU ARE GETTING PAID... Really just fuck right off with that horse shit. I have the Merry Men from Robin hood in my campaign, but trust me it is going to be VERY different when that arc is done, and TBH they were really different in the beginning too!

[@justanegg8478]

Did they not realize there’s an entire ruleset for a Star Wars game?

[@coogerlion]

When all you've got is a hammer...

[@Draeckon]

More than one, even

[@emberfist8347]

@@Draeckon Three to be specific.

[@Insertia_Nameia]

But then they'd have to come up with their own story line. Yeah they can have it thebstarvwars world and use some of the characters, but like they still then need to make a story. (And whether it is something that might be a fan fiction that fits in between cannon events or as an alt world, he'd also have to decide.

[@CyborgCharlotte]

……I didn’t 😅

[@jaydenatreides]

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR POINTING OUT THAT COPYING STORYLINES ISNT A BAD THING, I get so tired of hearing "The Author/Writing Critics" constantly talk about how everything is so unoriginal these days when 9/10 their favorite anime/media is definitely copying an aspect of it from something else.

[@Coffy-chan]

There hasn't been an original story in thousands of years. And that's okay.

[@GarkKahn]

Yeah most western fantasy is tolkien but with X instead of Y Not that it's a serious problem

[@Xhumed]

It's not like Star Wars is a wholly original story anyway.

[@DenysBuryi]

In this context it's especially funny because Star Wars was very heavily inspired by an old Japanese movie I'm forgetting the name of right now. The things he's mentioning fit better to that story, so it would be on the same level as Star Wars then, not a derivative of it.

[@dylanmahaffey8920]

Can't wait for the twist where the OP finds out the DM is his father.

[@GarkKahn]

I don't think so I doubt that's a possibility

[@u.v.s.5583]

No, no, not the GM but an NPC: the totally random guy in the totally random black mask with totally random heavy breathing and totally random red lightsaber.

[@andruchung3066]

​@@GarkKahn I see what you did there

[@theprinnyranger]

it's not everyday you hear CritCrab give up. That last story though... wow.

[@AstoundingBoar]

My group is similar. They nicknamed me “Big Daddy DM” and even joked about collectively buying me a DM screen with that engraved in it

[@unluckyone1655]

In my first ttrpg group, we nicknamed our GM "God."

[@solouno2280]

​@@unluckyone1655was he black and looked like Morgan Freeman?

[@unluckyone1655]

@solouno2280 lol no. He was a SSG and he did have a fairly deep voice.

[@undercookedsalmon]

@@unluckyone1655he was a super saiyan god?

[@MelodyTCG]

I like how you showed the faults in what the person posting did as well as the dm I noticed a distinct lack in how the other players felt and the player assumed they were speaking for the rest of them Your pizza analogy summed it up fairly well

[@ryanrydander1595]

Yeah, I really liked the pizza analogy

[@RazzleTheRed1]

I kinda disagree, if you chip in to pay for a pepperoni pizza and instead get a Hawaiian you have every right to complain

[@starofjustice1]

Yeah but I'm *sorta* on OP's side. This is a paid game, I'm not paying to play an obvious knockoff of a movie I could be watching for free.

[@ArcCaravan]

​@@RazzleTheRed1Only instead of getting an immediate refund for the mistake, the people who are fine with Hawaiian have their meal disrupted until the pizzeria throws the disturbance out.

[@redholm]

@@starofjustice1 Yea. It's the only reason I'm giving OP any leeway in this. Because yea. It's a 25 Dollars per session game. DM is getting paid 150 Bucks for this. He should have just stood up and asked for a refund once he saw it. This kind of game can be plenty of fun. But you don't expect that from a paid game.

[@KentaroMiyamoto21]

Wait... a D&D campaign that just retells Star Wars. That's the second time a story like this popped up on your channel. Only this DM wasn't even being subtle.

[@BlackMoonHowls]

I just like the idea of Star Wars in D&D, basically 2020 and 2021 was the Medieval era of the modern day thanks to the Pandemic and the internet's fascination with coning the term "Bardcore" metal songs made into an old sound, then there was Star Wars and the medieval compositions and Epic medieval remixes that basically almost inspired me to fucking write Star Wars but in Medieval times. Lightsabers would be made from special metal not found on earth but from a comet or meteoroid or something 'mysterious and spacey" that fell to the planet some very long time ago. The Force could be a different form of magic or maybe a divine sense that is only meant for the noble or rich or even the special gifted monks or bad guys. (Jedi or Sith) Do you see where I am going with this? Just listen Battle over Coruscant or some of the others like General Grevious' theme song and you'll know exactly what I mean by what I described; you'll see it too in your minds eye as well. Seeing really is believing, search for the answer within yourself you know it's true.

[@KentaroMiyamoto21]

@@BlackMoonHowls You're not wrong, but maybe try not to recreate a whole movie with your campaign.

[@redholm]

Or at least if you do recreate the entire movie tell the Players that are paying for your services you are doing so. I'm sure you would find plenty that could have fun with that to.

[@realdragon]

To be honest Star Wars is a big hit for a reason. But yeah it should be advertised as "Star Wars but fantasy"

[@TwighlightLugia]

In a shorter cosmic horror campaign we finished earlier this year, my s/o the DM just straight up used Anton Chigurh as the BBEG. Even recreated a couple scenes directly from the movie. Almost completely unaltered in name, as he changed it to Theodore Chegar. And that campaign _ruled,_ even despite being only about 5 sessions long, we got to close on a really good harrowing note. As for Theodore, he was basically an infant cosmic being who was supposed to be benevolent but was bad at it. Regardless, the success of that campaign probably had to do with the fact that he told us ahead of time. That said, we also are just a trio of people who live together and consider each other family. But still.

[@scallop933]

Does anyone else think dm #2 taught the player nothing? He just punished him, didnt clarify the issue, and just sent him on his merry way to murder hobo again?

[@Chatedh]

I felt like the story was completely fake, like it was going to end with everybody clapping at the GM at the end.

[@SilencedBTM]

That or made the person never want to play D&D again.

[@blackironslayer7228]

If the dude had self awareness he would learn, if not then he's just not going to be a part of it. He essentially kicked him from the group in a very ironic way showing him it was not about winning DnD. If he continues being a murder hobo, it's not the groups problem. They lose a player but they get to continue the campaign

[@hasenblake]

​​@@blackironslayer7228 the problem is it's hard to self awareness if player is really noob. And he is: be glad to won DnD is sign. So he just might not know what is good or bad, and he just play like he would if it were videogame. Showing consequences is much better way to teach than metagame like "u won, now leave"

[@blackironslayer7228]

@@hasenblake The problem is that it derails the campaign for other players. There are so many other stories where the other players pay for murderhobo choices. The good thing to do would be to be patient and try to teach the new player, but the group has no obligation to do such. Consider for a moment that the DM retcons the npc killed coming back to life and the noobs immediate action is to attempt to murder the npc again.

[@starmantheblaziken1453]

The video was really quiet to hear until I had to boost the volume on this. Just putting it out there.

[@CritCrab]

Thanks, noted ✍️🦀👍

[@Ouvii]

​​@@CritCrabtip: use an LUFS meter and get your audio somewhere from -15LUFS to -13LUFS (for KZbin. Other platforms have different loudness standards). Idk what software you are using, but some programs like Reaper have LUFS normalization that can automatically limit your waveform to the desired loudness level. If your program has LUFS normalization, then be sure to use it. Also, I didn't personally have a problem with the audio level so maybe just ignore everything in this thread ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@cyruscrompton8221]

ah, great! I felt like I was going insane, its not a huge issue thankfully

[@juliusnebulus7303]

​@@CritCrabyooo, you are still alive. Thank god.

[@Shane-hx4xp]

5:03 in my last campaign I DMd there was an argument in RP that went on for about 30. It got so intense that I did have to find a spot to break character to make sure that it was actually RP and not the players starting to get upset.

[@GarkKahn]

In my group it's so common that once someone from outside got mad at us for acting like that and then we cut rp for a second to tell him "bro what's your problem? we're having fun peacefully over here, just chill already" For outsider must feel like witnessing a massacre but then finding out they all agree to do it for fun, and nobody is actually angry I compare it to a sane person being the crazy one among a bunch of insane people

[@DoctorLazers]

Remember, there is no barrier for entry to be a "Pro-DM." Anyone can do it and there's no certification they hand out to be recognized as a good DM. This is why, in my shop, the first game is always free. My brother and I run five games a week at our store on a monthly subscription system. But if you're new to the store, we always let you sit down and play without a charge and then you can decide if we're worth your money. I'm proud to say that 95% of the people that come to our tables are back the next week, ready to sign up and put down money.

[@jennydorrance1884]

This reminds me of when I (DM) was trying to do a one shot with me group where they have to save the town from this monstrous pile of flesh I made the mistake of hireing them to "find out what is happening to the missing townfolk" They figured out the monster was eating them and demanded payment without killing the monster. We had a heated debate in character to try and get them to fight the monster. It ended when the Bard tried to get the town motivated to fight for themselves by singing "The Mob Song" from beauty and the beast. I waited until they sang the "Its time to follow meee!" Line to say they successfully inspired the town to follow you into battle against the monster. We still talk about this years later

[@Stefisgarden]

As my creative writing teacher always said: "All the stories have been told. All that matters is how YOU tell it." Stripped down to its core, every story follows one of very few plotlines, but it is your utilization of the tools(tropes) at your disposal that makes your story unique. But you have to actually TRY to tell a unique story; it's not an excuse to just blatantly rip off a popular piece of media and just change up some names.

[@lahlybird895]

On the other hand genre bending a popular piece of media is very fun I mean the mere fact that they took a Sci-Fi story and turned it into a fantasy story even if it does have the exact same plot is already different enough that I personally would love it and think it was really cool.

[@delqyrus2619]

The problem is, that these "rules" are not created and every story ever told was told by these rules. The rules where created by analyzing successful stories and take what all of them have in common. It's like looking for what every apple has in common and then complaining that every(successful) apple that you can create is basically the same. Of course there is a difference between "following the fundamentals" and "a shameless rip off".

[@dashiellgillingham4579]

That's kinda a tinsy bit of sophistry sprinkled over the truth, which storytellers like to give out rather than explain the fundamental nature of relayed intercorrollated human experiences within a specific cultural conceptual framework. I've started to give it out less lately since people started pretending that 'originality' is literally taking the average of all words on the internet that match a prompt.

[@vampire9545]

​@@delqyrus2619so u agree, good stories follow the same few formulae. And shit stories don't

[@delqyrus2619]

​@@vampire9545 I say that these few "formulae" are the smallest thing that many "good stories" have in common. Not everything that follows these is good, not everything that is good follows these "formulae". But a Story is more likely to be good, if it does.

[@MyLoneTravel]

I have put down playing dnd for a while now but still enjoyed you making these videos for me to listen at work. Thanks, dude.

[@ryanrydander1595]

He really straight up remade a death star xD The flaming sword dude in black armor was just overkill. Also, I think that the person who "Won D&D" was hilarious in that the DM made him feel elated and proud of himself as a roundabout way of kicking him out of the session. Extremely harsh, but if a murderhobo is going to drive a story completely off the rails by killing people soon as they meet them, yeah something has to be done

[@5daboz]

I would want an information if it was communicated in advance it is going to be a linear story. I would probably try to first stop him and explain to him what he is doing. If he would continue, use the world. He just killed someone, even more so, a nobleman, I am sure there is more than enough methods to explain to him that there is no AI to outsmart, GM is watching and he does have only one life to play with, no save games. I would probably kick him if he would be at the same time causing trouble to the rest of the group, but this just sounds too basic and a bit ... odd. How old was that player? How can you manage to tell someone s/he won DnD and s/he believes it? Some serious groundwork is missing here.

[@BlackMoonHowls]

@@5daboz It's like winning GTA Online, you don't. Simple as that and age is but a number it is how the person is mentally or acts and carries themselves. Something something something ego mania I think, perhaps.

[@solouno2280]

Just let them kill two random NPCs, then describe the third one as either one of their childhood friends or a guy you obviously should not mess with, if they still try to, then "roll for initiative" and let them fight against someone 8 lvls above them. Yes, nothing would be worse than turning that murder hobo into Vegeta and your quest giver into Gary fucking Oak

[@filthycasual6118]

@@5daboz Maybe it'd help to look at the player's motivations. The murderhobo who's just trying to accrue large quantities of powerful gear, or a horde's worth of gold, isn't doing it to pursue some story-based end goal. Killing a nobleman because they might have lots of gold sounds like they're approaching the game like a... game: with points, high scores, and win-conditions. Letting them "win" D&D is intended to reinforce that that's not what this group's about. The noob maybe didn't understand what was going on, and wasn't responding to correction.

[@Lotan_]

IF OP's retelling of the situation is accurate. I notice a suspicious lack of details being given in these supposed copies. The knight has black armour and a flaming sword, bit what is his backstory? His personality? His motivations? The other comparisons are also glossed over and stripped to the superficial similarities. I note a Han Solo expy is also absent. Things can be twisted a lot by biased retellings, and given how the OP behaved and described themself, I don't trust their account to be honest. Ironically, no one is more willing to be dishonest than the "brutally honest" types.

[@TheOtherGuys2]

There are really only a few stories, and they've all been told before. Boiled down, they are "Get to the place" (The Odyssey), "Win the heart" (The Iliad), "Get revenge" (Cain and Abel), "Find the thing" (Jason and the Golden Fleece), and "Save the world" (Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure). Yes I stole that from somewhere. The "Hero's Journey" combines many of those threads into a recognizable pattern with little variations.

[@fred_derf]

The proper way to handle noob murder-hobos (i.e. people who are ignorantly ruining the game, not people who are deliberately ruining the game) is to hold them responsible in the game. You attack the Nobel? His bodyguards (oh, you didn't notice his body guards?) attack you and either kill you outright, or capture you and turn you over to the law who puts you on trial and then executes you. Or, you find out that the Nobel is a much higher level character than you and he kills you in self-defense himself. Although the "you won D&D" is funnier, I doubt he learned anything by it -- other than you are kind of a jerk.

[@pat2100]

As someone who hasn't played DND and this is my only exposure that's definitely what I would've got from that experience lmao

[@tarotsushima3332]

If that last story's even real, all that got was a new player chastised from playing the game even if he did self reflect on his behaviour so congrats to that DM I suppose.

[@LizBlizzard]

This is giving in-game consequences to out-of-game problems. It doesn't "teach the guy a lesson" any more than the whole "you won D&D" does. It just forces the rest of the party to sit through watching their playtime be wasted as the DM focuses on giving consequences to the problem player's actions, at the expense of their fun and storytelling. The best way to handle murderhobos is to pause the game when they try to do something murderhobo-y, tell them that doing so is frowned upon and would cause a domino effect of consequences and derail the plot the rest of the party is pursuing, and that they should play nice and keep the other players' fun in mind, or stop playing. This way you've wasted maybe 5m of everybody's time, not hours or potentially sessions.

[@fred_derf]

@@LizBlizzard How is playing out the results of the character's actions in game, an out-of-game problem? _"It just forces the rest of the party to sit through watching their playtime be wasted as the DM focuses on giving consequences to the problem player's actions [...]"_ What player action are you talking about? I'm talking about what the *character does in game* having *in game consequences.*

[@LizBlizzard]

@@fred_derf When the player makes their character perform an action that the rest of the party does not want them to perform (such as murderhoboing), that's a problem with the player. The player chose to do an action without considering how it would affect the rest of the party. That's an out-of-character problem. If the entire party (and DM) approves of having the CG Rogue steal something, but they fail their check, and they need to deal with the consequences as a team, that's good and positive in-character behavior that warrants in-character consequences. Same if the entire party approves of the Paladin smiting that one asshole noble who's been oppressing the town, knowing full well that'll make them wanted criminals, and so on. The problem with a murderhobo is that they're controlling their characters, and making them perform actions that go against what the rest of the party wishes to happen in-game. That's, again, an out-of-character problem. The character does not exist without the player, the character does nothing without the player, so it cannot be a "character problem."

[@lorewalkermaohao4602]

I once ran a game that was just the Warcraft setting. While everything was set in motion to follow the plot of the games, the players had full agency in what to do. A couple players knew exactly what was going to happen and exploited it by trying to derail things. Little did they know that I had planned on that and they now had a great time in this alternate timeline of the warcraft universe. Specifically, they killed Arthas before he became the Lich King and took his runeblade. The PC that took the blade failed a check and was now convinced he needed to go to Northrend to save the spirits of his ancestors and started taking Death Knight levels (homebrew class). Sadly the game fizzled out before they ever got that far. I think something similar should have occurred here. The player knows this is Star Wars. Why not use that to his advantage? Convince the rest of the party to turn against the rebels, maybe work with the DM to become an imperial informant, maybe take the rebels' focus elsewhere. There is so much to be done without just whining. Though to be honest, the DM should've just said "lol yeah, I'm basing this off of Star Wars" and be fine with the players trying to take their own route in the story.

[@cubescihist6737]

Your Warcraft campaign sounds pretty cool!

[@galion1991]

OP was absolutely the asshole here. His behavior is equivalent to sitting down in a movie theater, not liking the movie, screaming about how he doesn't like it for half the runtime and finally throwing his popcorn at the screen before being escorted out, only to go back to the cashier and demand a refund after. Even if the movie was some derivative corporate schlock, it doesn't excuse or justify this behavior. If he acted like a decent human and just said "excuse me, I'm just not enjoying what you're going for here. You guys have fun" after the first ~15 minutes and left, he would have a better chance of getting a decent response when asking for refund later.

[@emberfist8347]

Yeah I lost sympathy for OP when he pulled the "the death star attack is terrorism" card. Some people need to learn the definition of words and the laws and customs of war to know why this doesn't count as terrorism.

[@ArcCaravan]

​@@emberfist8347Definitely counts as treason.

[@ArcCaravan]

Great theater metaphor for why OP was wrong here. Still petty of the DM to insist and only care about being called unoriginal.

[@emberfist8347]

@@ArcCaravan No that is not the definition of treason either.

[@ArcCaravan]

Still attacking the ruling power which is usually illegal, regardless of what words are used to define it.@@emberfist8347

[@DerpsWithWolves]

Sir Vader: "You may escape me, but you cannot escape the Force..." Not Luke: "Yes, Daddy." Vader: "...How did you know that?"

[@u.v.s.5583]

Not Luke: I searched my feelings?

[@gorgeouszan]

6:15 too true, it's face-palming how often people try to say they're a critic but never actually offer any criticism whatsoever just trash talk and bad-mouthing. That said, OP is totally the asshole, DM may have been unoriginal, but he wasn't the bad guy imo. People together could have said they didn't want to play it and ask for a refund but my OPs statement he's the only one that was throwing a fit and ruined the mood for everyone invovled.

[@ArcCaravan]

I'd say DM's stubborn vehement refusal to admit he's ripping off Star Wars for a group who's paying him $125 makes him bad here, though OP isn't much (if at all) better. We don't know if the other player's actually liked the campaign or not, just that they said nothing. DM seemed more concerned with not being called unoriginal than OP ruining everyone's time complaining.

[@gorgeouszan]

@@ArcCaravan while I'm sure he was annoyed by that the impression im getting is he just wanted to play the game, which he was being paid to do. I really can't find any fault in the DM here. Even copying Star Wars isn't a justification for the OP's antics.

[@ArcCaravan]

@@gorgeouszan If DM was honest about having players pay for a blatant Star Wars knockoff, I'd be more sympathetic to the DM. Otherwise I can't see either side as any better or worse, just one player reacting badly to something expected to be worth $25.

[@MadkingLeviticus]

@@ArcCaravan I disagree. There's a huge difference between saying, "That's not Vader. If you don't like it then leave" and throwing a massive tantrum at the table after being unable to derail it.

[@henrymartinvo]

That second story DM sounds like a complete tool. I can't imagine their "congratulations" being spoken in anyway but spiteful sarcasm. And the player was kicked out?! I expected a wholesome resolution where the DM ends the bit by making the player promise to change. Instead, they just kicked out the noob in the most childish, kids' show way imaginable. Also, the first story's OP is a total dick. Some snarky teen who thinks he's the only one who caught on to the obvious copycatting. No one else cared to complain, he should've let it be or leave without making such a scene

[@ArcCaravan]

Definitely iffy how those OPs handled their situation, though the opposite didn't do much better.

[@jackzed2020]

A very important sentence: Speaking without forethought is NOT speaking the brutal truth

[@rossjohnstone4689]

Whenever critcrab uploads, my shift at work cant go by fast enough :3

[@CritCrab]

Thank you 🦀💞

[@LimeofTheLord]

The Dm has the morals of palpatine and the body of Jabba

[@mikaroni_and_cheez]

Absolutely vile insult XD

[@liaml.e.5964]

ND JarJar's wit

[@emberfist8347]

No that is OP for insinuating that attacking a military fortress is terrorism.

[@dr3dg352]

OP is the Sith Lord of that story.

[@henryhere]

That's too nice man, at least palpatine was smart.

[@kartorrent7496]

5:54 Quotes from people with red blades: “Ah, you deny the weapon it’s purpose!” “It yearns to bathe in the blood of its enemies, but you hold it back!” “Can you hear that?” “DokTOR… I think it’s time for Jack TO LETTERIP!” “O.K… Let’s DANCE!” “Get ready for this!” “(Smugly smiles towards camera),”

[@debaucherie]

I love it when my favorite RPG story channels puts out a new video in time for my commute!! Thanks CritCrab :)

[@fitz8923]

Every time they call you Dungeon Daddy, just roll a d10. Then write down the result. Even if it doesn't actually go to anything. When they ask, "what are you rolling for?" Answer truthfully, "nothing."

[@khyteondemand]

admittedly I would have leaned in so hard on that first one. Just like. blatantly assuming that out of the whole party I am Luke. And then I would have called the Vader-alike daddy ;D

[@Sanodi21]

First story, I don't think you can really compare it everyone chipping in and getting a pepperoni pizza. It's like paying for something fancy together and what you get is a knock off from Temu. He paid $25 and got knock of Star Wars. While I wouldn't say it excuses OP's behavior, he is entitled to something better for that kind of money and so does the rest of the party.

[@RazzleTheRed1]

Yeah my thoughts exactly, if we wanna go back to the pizza analogy it's like paying for a pepperoni and then expecting to be happy when they bring you a Hawaiian pizza instead. I don't see the OP having done much wrong to be honest, especially when there's a not insubstantial amount of money involved.

[@edwardcalvo4047]

I think it would be different if OP had left earlier when he realized the game wasn't for him but he instead spent the whole time trying to detail it and complain at every chance, to me those behaviors make him a problem and fits the everyone chipped in for a pizza and he didn't like pepperoni

[@BlackMoonHowls]

@@RazzleTheRed1More like you hound them to deliver a fucking pizza to your house they can't effing find it, Pizza Hut and Dominoes BOTH can't find a tree in a forest cause of their shitty GPS. Been ordering Pizzas for a very long time then all of a sudden it's like they are afraid to deliver, and then BLAME you and tell you not to ever call them again, blacklisted. Fuck Pizza make that shit yourself. OR you find a good place and then all of a sudden their pizza prices SKYROCKET even before the actual inflation. Like I said fk pizza places they are ALL a scam.

[@BlackMoonHowls]

Never you mind Door Dash and Uber Eats being shit.

[@ArcCaravan]

I'm guessing for OP to be considered less guilty they'd have to try getting the refund before he got kicked or considered the other players' opinions on the standard knock-off. Or in the pizza analogy, don't disturb everyone else's meal until you get thrown out the pizzeria.

[@DH-xw6jp]

"If you all chip in for a pizza, you don't get to throw it all away because you don't like pepperoni." Fair enough, but what if you chip in for pizza and then they bring you chinese food? Because that is what happens when you order DnD and get StarWars instead.

[@thatguy8711]

The extremely convincing old man voice you put on for knockoff Kenobi caught me off guard.

[@Raimazuki]

DM fucked up. I would feel insulted if i was supposed to pay for OG story,only to figure out dude went "let's copy the whole thing,quick money"

[@aeroosprey]

If I had a nickel for every time CritCrab covered a story involving a DM that recycled the plot of Episode 4 for their campaign, I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot, but it's strange that it happened twice.

[@somerandomdude3729]

Since the "DnD Starwars" is an AMTA story, I'd say everyone sucks. The OP's frustration is understandable yes but he doesn't need to be an ass about it. The DM should also have tried to deescalate things rather than feed the fire. Critcrab is very right when calling both the OP and the DM the villains here.

[@lorddreemurr]

What makes the death star cool? First: Giant killing machine Second: 2 meter exhaust port flaw Third: "Thats no moon...."

[@GeneralArin]

Agree but just for exercise sake, to abstract that 3. A base or machine so massive that it initially looks like just a piece of the scenery that the base or machine is on, not the machine itself with the slowly dawning realization that 1. This is a murder machine on a scale so unfathomably big it's way more than the characters bargained for and fills them with dread but 2. There's a small and unassuming weakness that normally would be overlooked, but might be leveraged for a risky and daring plan to use it in an unconventional way to destroy the machine through guile and determination Rather than brute force

[@lorddreemurr]

@@GeneralArin right on the money with this. It's the perfect kind of thing to put into your own game!

[@andrewdriver3318]

First story, guy you are the player. You have the agency, make the story about whatever you want. So what if it is Star Wars? DM did you a favor by dropping you in a familiar world and plot that you know so you don't have to expend extra brain power on that part. Use that free capital to exercise your agency within this framework. What if Luke decided to team up with his father overthrow the Empire to establish themselves as the ruling Dynasty? What if he decided to for go the rebellion completely and go full space pirate with Solo? Go ham.

[@phabiorules]

I think that was the issue with the DM. OP did start playing into that, but the DM essentially said “follow the story or leave.” It wouldn’t have been too bad, but it seems the DM was pretty bent on railroading.

[@OxyMauron]

Thank you for the video, Crab Daddy.

[@resonantdock]

That ain't Darth Vader, that's Daisu Beida 💀

[@dr3dg352]

In story one, OP is absolutely the problem player. We didn't get the perspective of a single other player, OP could have been the only one who had a problem!

[@ArcCaravan]

DM didn't act much better, especially since OP paid money only to get an unsatisfactory knockoff.

[@Chatedh]

​@@ArcCaravanI don't know man... it seems to me the OP might just be an ass. Picking a few tropes and blaming the DM of copying star wars. If anything, he could have just left the game quietly and asked a refund without bothering the other players.

[@ArcCaravan]

@@Chatedh True, though DM also could have tried solving it peacefully instead of saying "quit criticizing my completely original game you paid for or screw off". It's not even a few tropes, it was all just a lazy Star Wars reenactment that refused a legitimate alternative choice. Nothing was stopping the DM from admitting it's obviously Star Wars or just running a module. Personally the fact the DM got $125 dollars for this is what bugs me most, like it would not be nearly as bad if it was free. Both sides are being scummy here.

[@theramsden8873]

Hah! One of my friends has been working on the UI for dungeon full dive, nice to see it here Great stories by the way! Favourite one is the noob one, sometimes you need a bit of tough love

[@CyberDrewan]

I definitely think the player should have stuck out the session. While it’s obvious that the DM was using the story structure of Star Wars, we’ll never know if that was going to be true all the way through to the end. Personally, I kinda want to see it all the way through, to see if he’d do anything different, like the Kenobi character actually being an actual terrorist, and they just kidnapped the princess instead of saving her. I would have also really liked to see how the DM ran the last act, where the fighters attacked the Death Star. Would it have been changed to an infiltration mission, or would they have to fly in on griffins or something? If the DM pulls out airships or something very similar to the movie, I could see this being a good time to call the DM for copying too much from Star Wars, as they never seemed to use any kind of ship previously. I also agree with CritCrab that while the OP paid for the game, the other players also paid. Who’s to say they weren’t having fun? If the OP was the only one voicing their dissatisfaction, maybe the other players didn’t mind or even wanted to play this “diet Star Wars”, especially if they weren’t very confident about role playing. While I can still see the argument that the DM was lazy and just plagiarized Star Wars, I honestly don’t think OP gave him enough of chance to prove that the story was more about than that.

[@ArcCaravan]

Pretty sure OP questioning Kenobi was giving DM a chance to prove they aren't paying $25 for a cheap reenactment. The DM responses being salty rage at being called out doesn't really build trust in a potential twist worth waiting for. Though true on OP not really considering how the other players felt about the campaign and arguments, that damages their side. Honestly trusting DM feels like falling into the mood tabletop horror story trap of "hopefully it'll improve" until you realize you're better off leaving, especially since these are costing money.

[@emberfist8347]

@@ArcCaravan Except didn't give salty rage just point out the flaws in OP's logic.

[@Chatedh]

The first story... Honestly, the main mistakes the GM commited was not kicking the OP earlier and not giving them their money back. Other than that, the fault is completely on the OP, a complete ass.

[@mulchmouth]

Completely agree. As soon as I heard the "I'm just brutally honest," I knew that OP was being an ass. You can have legitimate frustrations but being massively dramatic about it won't yield the results you want.

[@Hughes81]

Since were only getting OP's version, I'm curious as to how much it actually was "just Star Wars". I feel like a lot of people today are quick to jump on someone for being just like xyz no matter how close it is or not

[@NarwhalEntertainment]

I disagree with giving OP their money back. If he has just left? Sure, but ruining the game for the other paying players? Consider it an asshole tax.

[@roercula8425]

I would be the proudest DM if my players call me "Dungeon Daddy~ u.u" regularly.

[@GryphStone]

What CC was saying at 4:43 shows up in one of my current campaigns. We have characters who absolutely do not agree, and will have heated debates. After the session we talk about how much fun those were, and how while the character might hate/dislike the other character, player most definitely loves them. It's been such fun, and it has helped build up the whole story to such a huge degree.

[@Str8jacket192]

As a person that has never watched Star Wars, i can confirm that wasn't Darth Vader.

[@winterlock1576]

Thanks for the upload crab Daddy

[@StarLee_]

You know its a good day when critcrab uploads

[@lucasvyner1502]

Yeah that 1st story is................... if i knew my DM was getting several hundred dollars to run a campaign (the story indicates it was $25 a session and would be multiple sessions) while he was literally just reskinning a movie instead of using some creativity(edit: and it wasn't advertised beforehand, like in session 0) i'd want out by session 2 as well. If it was a forever/free DM i'd just try and have fun with it.

[@943shooter]

Story 1: yes the DM not being original sucks but OP could have left after session 1 instead of sticking around. $25 isnt a lot long term and if the other players like it then OP is the odd man out and a total Ahole Story 2: gave me an idea, nobles have magic items to protect themselves or are skilled themselves. Like a necklace that has a modified faeire fire that marks you and every guard has your picture sent directly to them. And a ring that has a high end life transference, where the damage done to the attacker is sent to the noble for heals. And maybe a ring of teleport or misty step for good measure. Nobles make bank, show it. 3rd: sorry DM its your name now

[@wesleystockford2616]

As soon as they got to the fortress, "I cast fireball at the exhaust port."

[@xherdos400]

New Video nice, though maybe up the Mic Volume next time XD had to put you from 20% Video volume to 100% :P

[@CritCrab]

Noted. Thanks! ✍️🦀

[@zearrak5704]

ok i just love how abruptly this video ended. that is comedy gold there to me. first story yeah i am more on the op's side than the dm's but i wanna know what the other players had to say

[@sarcasticfury5478]

Won't deny that the DM is a plagiarist, but OP sounds like a jerk. If he's not enjoying the fact that the DM is copying Star Wars, just leave after Session 1. Don't continue to pay and play, don't get in some snark war to try and own the DM, just leave. And the fact that 1. There's nothing on whether the other players enjoyed the game or not and 2. The game ended after he confronted the DM on Darth Vader, don't make OP look any better

[@gorvarhadgarson5227]

You know...if the DM was worth his salt, he would turn the plot of A New Hope on its head. What if Luke said screw it and joined the Empire?

[@jsb6975.ah.crapbaskets]

Instead of Luke Skywalker he becomes Grand Admiral Thrawn.

[@1Kapuchu100]

That infographic you're referring to, Critcrab, is the meta narrative of the "Hero's Journey", which is a framework for a story that is about as old as time itself. Or at least, as old as humanity's art of storytelling. The Epic of Gilgamesh, the oldest piece of litterature, arguably fits this framework as well. Edit: And a few minutes later he namedrops it as well. Seems my explanation was not needed !

[@etcetera1995]

Uh, the Hero's Journey was made up by one dude who crowbarred countless stories that were nothing alike to fit his preconceptions of a nonexistent monomyth. Only modern stories resemble it closely, and that's because modern authors use it as framework.

[@Catalyst375]

​@@etcetera1995Yep. The biggest mistake you can make is to buy into the idea that the "Hero's Journey" is so fundamental. There do exist other story structures, and no true "monomyth" exists. As it happens, the "Hero's Journey" became so mainstream partly because Lucas claimed he used it for Star Wars, IIRC.

[@Shageru47]

About the whole stealing thing. My DM stole his base plot from the first Borderlands game. We figured that out pretty quick and we all had a great laugh about it. He didn't mind. He laughed with us. We still play in that campaign and have the time of our lives.

[@pugstick]

I feel the last guy, and I have to go through some similar and its the most annoyingest shit in the world

[@Mothman1992]

If everybody chips in for a pizza you don't get to throw it away because you don't like pepperoni. But if you're not going to eat pepperoni pizza they shouldn't ask you to pitch in for the double pepperoni thin crust

[@xryeau_1760]

The DM from the first story lowkey sounds like a scammer: Bland campaign, dishonest narrative, no refunds, and it stopped halfway through the first session. If anyone sold a product or service other than a TTRPG campaign in this same manner they would be called a scammer and would potentially have been sued

[@StSubZero]

@xryeau_1760 It's exactly why I would NEVER pay a DM I don't know to run a game for me. Nothing is stopping them from running off with your money nor does anything promise they'll live up to their price. No boss nor guild to answer to, no promise of a refund, an because an RP session has subjective quality, it's not possible to objectifly claim "Your honor, this man gave me a bad session and owes me my money back!" Den of the Drake once said one's DMing style isn't something you can really market because even if you're a good DM, your style might not be something a paying player might enjoy. An LSG is better, at least a DM there has to answer to a store owner since no SO will tolerate their customers being short handed.

[@LinkiePup]

I’d actually argue that the OP is in the wrong. We’re hearing their biased POV, and only their POV. OP didn’t ask anyone else if they were having fun. And when they called the DM “Arbitrator of Fun”, they themselves were being the same thing they were accusing the DM of. OP probably killed the enjoyment of the story for the DM, and the players. Notice how when he talked to his buddy all he said was “the game didn’t pick up after that session”. Like- was it because the players decided to leave? Or was it because the DM just ruined the story for the rest of the party? Like… Yeah, ripping of star wars isn’t the most original thing, but like… what is? Stars War is just one of a million retellings of the Heroes Journey. It itself isn’t original. But is that an excuse? No… not really… but if the rest of the party doesn’t have an issue with it, then go up to the dm in private say, “hey, this isn’t what I was expecting, and I would like my money back please.” Instead of causing a scene.

[@LordTeaboBaggins]

For what it’s worth, I’d have been pissed too. But honestly not as pissed off as OP. I’d have least stuck around to see how the climactic TIE- Fighter Vs X-Wing climax would play out in a D&D setting. Also, as the Bible states in Ecclesiastes 1:9- “ All things are wearisome, more than one can say. The eye never has enough of seeing, nor the ear its fill of hearing. 9 What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun.” So even in historical times, it was known that nothing is truly original

[@P4rz1va1]

Yeah, I absolutely blame the OP in that first story. We don't even know if the DM did anything wrong to start out, if everyone else was having fun, there's nothing wrong with a little plagiarism. And OP never even mentioned trying to talk to the DM about any issues they had with the game before everything escalated to a breaking point.

[@ArcCaravan]

I'm guessing the DM angrily railroading away OP's argument of their situation and kicking a paying customer just for pointing out the blatant ripoffs was bad enough. And this wasn't a little plagiarism, it was the entire campaign. Considering how DM acted I doubt talking would help, though OP definitely could have bothered making sure how the rest of the table felt. Still on DM for refusing to admit players are paying $25 each for a cheap reenactment.

[@P4rz1va1]

@ArcCaravan This player is surely stacking the story to make themselves come off as the good guy, and they still look just as much to blame. I too would be mad at the player for spending many sessions paying for a game they clearly aren't enjoying when everyone else seemingly has no complaints, they easily could have left way earlier if they noticed immediately as they said, but still they chose to continue paying and ruined the game much farther down the line even though they knew the whole time that it was based on star wars and made no efforts to speak with the DM about it.

[@ArcCaravan]

At the same time, DM never tried speaking to OP about it, just accepting his money until the Darth Vader knockoff getting called out was the last straw. Both are jerks here, neither are innocent.@@P4rz1va1

[@amyefting3225]

Star wars story: I get being upset a game you paid for had a star wars skin on it, but damn OP isn't even trying to have a good time. Openly admitting to being hostile towards the DM from the get go. Oh, but they're "brutally honest" so they are just an AH.

[@amyefting3225]

OP actually doesn't say anything bad about the game other than the theme. Doesn't say the DM was rude or the combat wasn't engaging or that anyone was given special treatment. They really just did not like the skin on the adventure and threw a tantrum under the guise of brutal honesty. I bet it would have been a fun game if they just accepted that one detail.

[@somebody4952]

"I'm brutally honest [...], That's just who I am." Oh boy

[@CaitlinKoi]

"I paid good money for this" dude, even in this economy $25 is not "good money" and this is coming from a woman who is living below the poverty line. I would have cut my losses, unless I was unfairly kicked. This guy is admitting to constantly interrupting, and possibly backseat DMing. I don't care if his criticisms of the plagiarism are valid, asking for a refund only because you have buyer's remorse is so entitled.

[@matthewhamlin392]

Dang Critcrab where have you been. It's been over a month, I was worried about you.

[@CritCrab]

It's been wild out here man haha. Lots of new videos rapid firing this month tho 🦀👍

[@informitas0117]

Never pay for a DM. Ask the DM to pay you for playing next time. It's a hobby for them too, or it should be. If you need cash to do your hobby, find another one. Go home. It's clearly not for you. Writing should be FUN, world building FUN, playing as a DM FUN. If any is no, either be a player next time or read a book instead. The paid DM in the story is running a scam, take money run bad game, players quit, rinse and repeat.

[@DMCM88]

7:06 there you go, OP is that guy, and decided to ruin the game for everyone.

[@Th3BigBoy]

I don't know anything about DnD beyond a few of these videos. But I findtgese stories so damn funny that I can't stop listening.

[@JacobL228]

The first guy didn't do anything wrong. It's illegal to charge money for plagiarized material, and that was the most blatantly plagiarized material I have ever seen. If I were him, since the DM clearly had no intention of doing anything original, I would have used my knowledge of Star Wars to change the plot. Tell the princess that the "black knight" is her real father, tell Not-Vader that he shouldn't destroy his daughter's adopted home since it'll just create martyrs for the rebels to rally around, and that he should choose his kids over the emperor before it's too late because it's what his wife would have wanted, and, of course, make sure whoever the DM's Luke is doesn't make out with the princess (that was the one problem I had throughout all six movies).

[@rynowatcher]

You cannot plagiarize a plot. The dm changed all propper nouns, people, places, and things. Heck, if he wrote it down he could legally sell it. You come closer to plagurization when you run a d&d game while calling the eye stalk floating head a "beholder." Even so, he is not replicating a work, just referencing it, hence falls under parody; like "Space Balls." D&D even does this a lot in current publications; ie the sun sword from CoS is a light saber. Also, armored magic user with a firey sword is in the monster manual under "death knight." Not sure op is aware if the dm is using a classic monster or has a star wars reference. I will say too that the plot cannot be the same if the characters make different choices; ie, not dressing as guards to get the princess out, not fleeing through the trash, and there did not appear to be an "old Ben" dm PC or else the op would have complained about it. If it is too close to star wars, it is equal parts on the players here.

[@SithBunny1]

Technically, Lucas plagiarized the plot himself, just changing a bunch of proper names and adding space themes.

[@emberfist8347]

@@SithBunny1 You don't seem to know what plagiarism is.

[@DarthJudicar22]

I know this is semantics but Tarkin ordered the destruction of Alderaan not Vader.

[@Rngeez-i2s]

Well that's meta gaming. I would've just asked for a refund

[@chaoticoldbore]

Years ago I had a friend who as a great GM and group of friends/players. We played many TTRPGs together including D&D, Cyberpunk 2020, Rifts and GURPS, amongst others. Within GURPS we used the Discworld supplement (we were all fans of the late great Sir Terry Pratchett). then with in that he ran 2 really good campaigns one based on Star Wars and one based on superheroes (10 years pre the beginning of the MCU) and we has a ball playing both. It did help we were prewarned about themes and were totally on board.

[@Narcomancer1943]

Hey look, a story from the players perspective where they still make themselves out to be the dick. What a rare treat.

[@ArcCaravan]

Even better when both sides are horrible.

[@MandalorV7]

If you want to find a great example of a D&D rules inspired game taking inspiration from the original Star Wars plot, look no further than Knights of the Old Republic 1. The game starts out with the good guy ship being attacked, but the main hero has to fight his way off the ship. The princess has been replaced by a talented but overconfident Jedi who has been captured by gangsters. Then later on the Death Star has been replaced in the plot by the Star Forge, a massive space factory instead of a super weapon. And instead revealing that the big bad was related the main hero, the main hero learns they were once the big bad's mentor and friend. Its enough to follow the same story beets but made the story feel fresh at the time too.

[@CrowLawyer]

As a sw fan i can say…. This man is a absolute legend!

[@starofjustice1]

I had to check and make sure I wasn't watching a Karl Jobst video when I heard those words in my head.

[@ArcCaravan]

Which one, DM or OP. They don't feel as legendary as the player who kamikazed a not-SW campaign the rest of the players disliked.

[@emberfist8347]

No as a fan this dude is the a-hole. The moment you pull the t-word card related to the plot of A New Hope, you lose me. It doesn't match the definition of terrorism at all.

[@ArcCaravan]

I'm guessing that argument was a bluff to test if the campaign was prepared for different choices beyond the movie.@@emberfist8347

[@Synkrotta]

​@@ArcCaravanNowhere does it state the rest of the players were not enjoying the game.

[@i3eaniie602]

9:40 how did OP throw away the entire hypothetical pizza? Dms literally in charge of the campaign

[@8Kheelasalai]

I absolutely hate it when people say "I'm just brutally honest." I just say "no you're an asshole and you just don't like people saying you are."

[@philipozminkowski8200]

It's true you can't not plagiarize as a DM. My girlfriend last DnD game asked me if I was taking inspiration from underworld. I'm like... what's underworld? It hard not to be similar to something else.

[@PsychotoasterProd]

It was a few of years ago, I spent a few weeks working out this adventure for our Star Wars game. Loads of notes, lots of twists, pretty cool. Then like three days before I ran the adventure, an episode of Doctor Who dropped and completely made me look like I was shamelessly ripping them off.

[@Martin_Dimirag]

Once a comic book writer said "don't copy, steal, if you copy, it will show, instead, take the concept, the idea, and what you like from the original, then present it your own way" that's what this GM was lacking, worst thing is that it was charging for a copy-paste game. I agree that those "brutally honest" people tend to use it as a shield for being jerks, but sometimes you have to be a jerk to be heard...

[@lahlybird895]

But do you really need to be heard. For instance I have never watched Star wars and therefore would probably enjoy this game and maybe some people do dream of wanting to play Star wars and are having fun nobody else in the group was complaining and if he wanted to leave he could have when the DM gave him the opportunity to instead of just staying there just to make snarky comments at everybody and ruin the game for everybody else.

[@Martin_Dimirag]

@@lahlybird895 I'm not talking about op here. About op, i wasn't saying he was ok in doing it, op should have talked privately, the gm should have also talked on the side and offered an out in better terms, the dm got stubborn on keeping his game and op got dense on not wanting that game resulting in a clash.

[@lahlybird895]

@@Martin_Dimirag ok fair enough.

[@littletoe8408]

Hey crabby my boy! I have a suggestion for merch, you should make a dice set that had the crit crab on the baggie and make the d20 have a claw for the 1 and a crown for the 20. Make the die black with red writing and you could have another set where the die is white with blue writing. PLEASE?!?! Ill buy 4 sets for my group, we love watching your videos together before and after sessions

[@PurpleWind64]

Honestly, I don't blame Star Wars OP for being rude. Dude was ripped off. It's less him throwing out the pizza for not liking pepperonis and more like the DM promising a handmade pizza, but then giving them cheap fast food that he disguised as his own cooking.

[@JangoFox]

"I thought we were having Steamed Clams." - The OP

[@lahlybird895]

I mean if everybody else enjoyed it and he still getting a meal out of it there's really no point complaining

[@nykcarnsew2238]

@@lahlybird895 there’s absolutely point in complaining about getting ripped off, if someone makes me pay gourmet prices for literal fast food I’m gonna call them an asshole. Besides there’s no actual indication the other players enjoyed it, we genuinely have no idea their opinions beyond that they didn’t stay for the next game

[@tarotsushima3332]

Yeah, but continuing with that analogy, while everyone else just shrugged and ate it, OP goes into a long winded argument with the DM, refusing to leave and essentially having to get kicked out of the premises. I'd think OP would have got a refund if he just up and said he wasn't having fun as the session started instead of having to be such a smug asshole all through and getting shocked that the DM won't give it back. Like another commenter said, it's like going to a movie theatre and once you realize the movie's ass, start loudly booing and chucking popcorn at the screen, loudly criticizing every plot point and then get shocked when you're kicked out instead of getting a refund.

[@lahlybird895]

@@nykcarnsew2238 I mean if somebody deliberately home cooked something I have an attempt to mimic fast food I would be thrilled and then I get the taste of the fast food and they still put a lot of effort into it and at the very least I wouldn't throw my food across the room like a child and then get mad that I didn't get a refund

[@emeraldtaco]

I feel like I'd have way too much fun in this game by just knowing the plot of Star Wars. Me: Alright so I want to shut down all the garbage mashers on the detention level. GM: Wait what? Why you aren't in the garbage compactor yet. You don't even know that there is a garbage compactor. Me: In a castle THIS SIZE?! Of course there's a garbage compactor, and clearly each level would have access to that through some kind of garbage chute, it's just practical. So we'll escape through there. And you know it just makes sense to shut down the compactor now. Why wait til we're in there? Also I'll unlock all the doors while we're in this control area together.

[@KagemaruHitokiri]

In the first story, sure, OP was kind of being an ass, but frankly, if I paid someone $25 *per session,* only to have them regurgitate A New Hope but in the thinnest coat of DnD paint, I'd want a refund too. The DM is frankly more of an ass for not refunding the money. "I'm not gonna deal with you, but I'll gladly take your money even if you're dissatisfied." Of course, the smarter play after that initial argument with the old wizard would have been to just say "I'm out, and I want a refund." OP didn't like where the game was going anyway so immediately dropping the game and demanding a refund in front of everyone would have been the smarter move.

[@ArcCaravan]

OP could have also checked with the other players to make sure their time wasn't getting ruined by the complaints. As for DM not refunding after kicking OP, it could be considered the equivalent of demanding a refund only after getting thrown out of a pizzaria for disturbing the peace.

[@KagemaruHitokiri]

@@ArcCaravan That's really not a good analogy. It's much closer to paying at the register at McDonald's, watching the manager walk across the street to Burger King and bring it back, being served the Burger King, and calling out that your 'Big Mac' is just a rewrapped Whopper from across the street. Is it petty? Is it kind of pointless because they're both crappy burgers anyway? Is it awkward to get kicked out over this argument? Does the customer still have every right to ask for a refund? Yes, yes, yes, and *yes, obviously.*

[@ArcCaravan]

Your analogy forgot to include the rest of the table who didn't seemed bothered by the campaign. I was just using CritCrab's pizza analogy. The point was OP was still potentially ruining things for the other players and only wanted a refund AFTER getting kicked instead of earlier. And OP had already ate the food, despite whining about it the whole time.@@KagemaruHitokiri

[@KagemaruHitokiri]

@ArcCaravan We straight up *can't* account for the rest of the table, because they're essentially a non-factor from OP's perspective. For some reason, self-declared "brutally honest" types are often self-absorbed and either ignore or omit details involving others. But regardless, we have none of the other players either saying that OP ruined their fun or saying that they wanted to say something but didn't because OP vented plenty for them. Or that they didn't care either way. We have none of those data points. The absolute best we have is *assuming the players were on the DM's side* because OP didn't mention them speaking up either way. And sure, my analogy still has faults, but it still brings across an important yet overlooked point: a business transaction where one person paid for a service, said service was unsatisfactory, and they wanted a refund. The provider of said service, instead of giving them back their money, is being an ass, and they have no legal standing to keep the money. Frankly, even if OP was disliked by the table and omitted everyone else being okay with the ripoff of paying more than a theatre ticket to be railroaded down the original Trilogy story, I would still say OP would be completely right to run a chargeback. The DM didn't try to do anything to head this off, like, say, going, "If you don't like the campaign, I'll gladly refund you, and you can leave."

[@ArcCaravan]

True, DM didn't try solving the problem either until kicking OP for calling out the Darth Vader knockoff. Someone else made a better analogy of OP being a theater patron who constantly yells during a movie until getting taken out by security only to demand a refund instead of leaving earlier for said refund. Regardless of the other players' opinions, the potential OP ruined the game for others shouldn't be ignored.@@KagemaruHitokiri

[@Notbatman374]

Nothing wrong pulling from media. I am in one group where we have 2 dms. One runs a pretty standard game but doesnt always have time to plan a session. The 2nd dm usuall then jumps in with an improvised game. our 2nd dm bases every improv session after a different movie. Part of the fun is guessing what movie were in. If we guess and can sneak in a quote from the correct movie, we get inspiration. So far we've done die hard, home alone, back to the future and clue. It's been a blast.

[@WolforNuva]

Honestly I think OP of the first story was the problem, the GM didn't act perfectly but they sound reasonable enough. All of the problems in the game happen because OP is dissatisfied and decides to make it everyone else's problem. As the GM even suggests, if this isn't the game OP wanted to play, they should have just left and then they would have gotten their refund. I find it telling that we don't hear about any other players, their silence here and willingness to go along with the story makes it sound like OP was the only one unsatisfied, or at least the only one immature enough to make a big deal about it during the session.

[@The_gaming_gazimon]

Dungeon fulldive definitely reminds me of that one mission from Fable 3 as for first OP's issues with the DM, they should have gone to their payment method and done a chargeback on the payment over it

[@mikeyfisher4256]

Tbh, the guy in the first story is the asshole, he didn't like it so instead of being a insert Australias favourite c-word and ruining the game for the others, he should have messaged the dm saying "Sorry, I'm not interested in a fantasy version of A New Hope I'm going to drop" wouldn't have ruined it for the others and he probablty would have got his mony back. He brought it on himself, he fully deserved not getting his money back, guy was a wanker.

[@ArcCaravan]

Assuming the other players were actually enjoying paying for a bland Star Wars knockoff. DM wasn't much better if at all.

[@emberfist8347]

@@ArcCaravan What do you mean assuming? If they had issues, they would do Mikey suggested OP do.

[@legionofregion8825]

In the first story, the player needs to talk to the DM. Bring up the issues you're having and address them fairly, and like adults, the same thing works in reverse as well. If a player is being a pain, you need to talk to them one-on-one. If at all possible, you should never do this during the game, however, which is what the OP did. Maybe the dungeon master would have changed and made a more original story after realizing that one, if not multiple players, was not having fun. But we will never know. The dungeon master should not have been so blatant, but they were way better ways to address it and maybe even resolved it without being a dick being a dick. Also, that's not a receipt. That's you typing out a story. A screenshot is a receipt. You need proof, not just what you said happened. That's hearsay.

[@swickens930]

Your audio is really quiet this episode. Just wanted to let you know

[@GarkKahn]

For the noob murderhobbo story i compare it to myself during work and whenever i have to take care of a kid or just found one by chance while walking on the street With the former i respond with a punch directed to their face while i go easy on the later telling them to cut it or calm down Reason? Well... My coworkers are full grown adults and should be able to understand when they cross the line and how to behave (specially at work), meanwhile a child is ignorant to those things One is being annoying on purpose or at least being negligent while the other is doing it without bad intentions

[@NewLegacy93]

First story's OP is the one in the wrong imo, A) there is nothing wrong with a knockoff campaign if it is well made, it still needs to first be converted into a fantasy setting and then into a good D&D campaign, arguably a lot more effort than many DMs put in and B) if you have a problem with it then talk to them after the session and don't go out of your way to make everyone else have a bad time. The DM messed up by not having a session 0, but a well wrong fantasy starwars game could easily be worth the money if that's something the players wanted to experience.

[@emberfist8347]

C) He pulled that old "The Death Star Attack was terrorism" card. It doesn't qualify as terrorism. It was a valid military target.

[@ArcCaravan]

​@@emberfist8347Nobody cares about the exact terms of what the rebellion did, they still broke the law.

[@ArcCaravan]

DM never bothered talking things out either, just saltily ignoring criticism of the product people are paying for. And it's not like DM was honest about it being a Star Wars knockoff, just expecting everyone to be okay with it and follow the script obediently.

[@NewLegacy93]

@@ArcCaravan yeah I definitely agree that the DM messed up and wouldn't normally speak in their defense, this player just sounds like a nightmare taking a product they didn't like and making sure nobody else who paid for it got to enjoy it either

[@emberfist8347]

@@ArcCaravan No the OP never talked things out with the DM if he had an issue he should have brought it up out of game.

[@krazedkoi]

The last story+outtro were perfect. Total chef's kiss

[@Dhampir1987]

Story one. Ehh....I think OP is a dick. He's coming off pretty smug about, "calling out" the DM on his game idea. He sounds like the type that'll suck the fun out of a game.