DNA and Celtic Genocide in Ancient Ireland?

[@studyofantiquityandthemidd4449]

What are your thoughts about this episode? The Celtic takeover of Ireland and the way we use DNA studies and archaeology to explore and reshape or clarify our past? To support the channel, become a Patron and make history matter! Check out these links below to support the channel. Patreon: www.patreon.com/The_Study_of_Antiquity_and_the_Middle_Ages Donate directly to PayPal: paypal.me/NickBarksdale Enjoy history merchandise? Check out affiliate link to SPQR Emporium! spqr-emporium.com?aff=3 *Dislaimer, the link above is an affiliate link which means we will earn a generous commission from your magnificent purchase, just another way to help out the channel! Join our community! Facebook Page: facebook.com/THESTUDYOFANTIQUITYANDTHEMIDDLEAGES/ Twitter: twitter.com/NickBarksdale Instagram: instagram.com/study_of_antiquity_middle_ages/ Facebook Group: facebook.com/groups/164050034145170/

[@madshagen5849]

In two words: The Plague. Indo-Europeans brought plague with them when they migrated out of the steppes north of the Caucasus some 5500 years ago. Populous communities in Ukraine and Romania (10000-20000 inhabitants in some settlements! Equivalent to what existed in Mesopotamia at the time...) disappeared almost overnight at that time. Indo-Europeans spread all around the continent, and came to dominate the continent genetically, linguistically and culturally in less than 1500 years -because they brought not only the plague, but horses and chariots too with the conquest potentials it brought. However the plague spread in front of them and the "original" population on the continent gained some immunity (a very hot topic these days...) so they could not be completely overrun by the IE, at least not genetically. However isolated populations beyond mountains (the Pyrenees) or on islands (The British Isles) got overrun completely by the combination of plague and mounted warfare because endeavours into those territories came relatively suddenly as a result of accumulated population pressures in the main continental body of Europe.I am extrapolating on some facts above, but the article I build upon is here: www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/10/bronze-age-plague-wasnt-spread-fleas

[@saintdunstan431]

Great comment Mads, are there any other timelines here? For instance there is also the idea of global flooding circa 12500 years ago with the Younger Dryas, massive release of waters from the frozen poles and an impact event in the northern hemisphere: sea levels are as much as 300 feet or 127 metres higher today.

[@DEMcouver]

Mads Hagen funnily enough, the Irish Invasion Myths do mention plague and name the ‘Formorians’ as the culprits.

[@saintdunstan431]

Ethnicity estimates are just that, estimates - they are not absolute readings and genetics is a developing science so take it as a broad reading rather than a mathematical truth...

[@paulkeely3851]

The genetics of Ireland's male population has moved way beyond this very low resolution view. You need to get on somebody that's at the coal face rather than a posh Dublin "journalist" that reads off a sheet. Somebody like Ger Corcoran or Maurice Gleeson. kzbin.info/www/bejne/hmSVaJmDhNljotE

[@DorchesterMom]

My mother in law, who is of 100% Irish ancestry, has the maternal haplogroup U5. U5 is thought to represent some of the original Neolithic farmers in Ireland.

[@London-LM]

I'm pretty sure U5 represents hunter gatherers which are the oldest people in Europe.

[@LuisAldamiz]

U5, much of H and U4 are the main Paleolithic mtDNA lineages of Europe. J, T, X, N1 (incl. I), N2 (incl. W) are the main specifically Neolithic haplogroups. By that time both were mixed but only in some areas we spot modern-like genetic pools (Atlantic France and the Basque Country) very early on. Bell Beaker folks also spread modern mtDNA pools, the replacement was both-sided, not just male-sided.

[@LuisAldamiz]

@@alfredthickcock - YW. Always nice to know my explanations didn't go to waste.

[@haleydoe644]

Interesting. My aunt, 3rd generation, is near 80% Irish. (My father passed before DNA). My grandmother married a Canadian man, but otherwise the family married other Irish people. My DNA is highly concentrated in Munster, Beara Peninsula specifically. I wonder just how high the concentration of Irish DNA was in older generations. I'd love to know the haplogroup.

[@richern2717]

U5a from Eastern Europe and U5b from Western Europe....

[@TheM41a]

Interesting but a few mistakes based on outdated data were made. Haplogroup G whilst very common in early neolithic agriculturalists across Europe did not make it to Britain and Ireland due to exogamy with local WHG men (themselves nearly all I2a) so there no “G men” ever in Ireland in any substantial numbers. All Mesolithic and Neolithic samples were I2a. While the bell beakers probably spoke a language closely related to Italo-Celtic, these languages did not truly form until the Iron Age. Around a millennia after bell beaker. These languages were likely introduced by a warrior elite from hallstatt Europe.

[@jacobmarley2966]

The beaker people who entered britian and then ireland were the eastern bell beakers from central europe not the iberian beakers.

[@pathfinderfergusfilms6630]

It may well be that the population in Ireland in earlier times was very small compared to mainland Europe. The numbers were such that incoming later people and their better method of farming etc caused the increased predominant DNA population? Interesting video. Thanks.

[@LuisAldamiz]

It did suffer a decline prior to replacement, also in Britain. We don't know why, maybe climate cooling after the Neolithic Optimun had something to do, war is more apparent in Germany (older dates).

[@ThePunishersBatcave]

Are you probably thinking about the times of the tuatha da danaan when the milesians invaded Ireland? There is a book in Ireland called the Tuatha da Danaan that talks about the book of invasions.

[@Oduinn9]

;)

[@GalaicoWarrior]

Thanks to Cunliffe and Koch, we now know that the ancient Celts and their language originated from the Atlantic coast of Iberia. The Celtic homeland of the Gallaecians, Tartessians and Celtiberians. These people migrated northward and eastward into Europe.

[@danythrinbell1596]

i got 33 centimograns of shared DNA with Scot ancient samples from north Scotland dated to 900 bc and it was not stolen after 3000 years that shit still walking in my ass ,gees that DNA is like diamonds never fades away

[@barryb90]

There seems to be a lot of conflicting information on the subject. Others have it in Hallstatt. Very interesting regardless.

[@danythrinbell1596]

@@barryb90 do they have in Hallstatt what the Iberian have ? i don't think so just google the Iberian hill forts you will be amazed about such ruins with plenty souvenirs from that guys CELTIC

[@barryb90]

@@danythrinbell1596 I'm referring to the origins of Celts in Europe in general. I should have clarified that. Not just the Iberian migration to Ireland.

[@danythrinbell1596]

@@barryb90 well for that you have the ancient historians that said were they lived right at your ginger the only reference made by them was to Iberian keltoy , the only Celts that are mentioned in ancient times

[@DEMcouver]

I’m not sure if he’s really doing this, but I think it’s a mistake to suggest that Bell Beaker culture, brought q-Celtic languages with them. I think that was a much later development. Also, as I think it’s mentioned elsewhere, it’s questionable whether they were even proto-Celtic, in the first place. Having said that, it’s still interesting that that particular haplogroup has such prevalence in the modern population.

[@LuisAldamiz]

Bell Beaker (BB) had many branches but I'm pretty sure none can be described as "Celtic", Celts expanded only much later, already in the Iron Age (some areas in the late Bronze Age). My interpretation is that SW BB (spanning France and Iberia) was clearly proto-Basque, Eastern BB (around the Czech Republic) was continuous with previous Indoeuropean settlement (Corded Ware) and later one (Unetice). This last was probably also the case around Denmark (Northern BB) but less data available. However the so-called NW region, including the islands and the Rhine all the way to Switzerland, could be more complicated: the genetics are like those of the SW (proto-Basque) but also slightly admixed with Indoeuropean blood (autosomal DNA only, not the Y-DNA) so IMO they could be influential in later Celtic coalescence but not yet Celts, rather a variant of "Basques" or "Iberians" (but surely from France rather than from Iberia).

[@g-rexsaurus794]

@@LuisAldamiz >but also slightly admixed with Indoeuropean blood (autosomal DNA only, not the Y-DNA) The R1b that dominates all of Western Europe is IE. Also it's not light, Northern Bell Beakers can even be majority Indo-European.

[@LuisAldamiz]

@@g-rexsaurus794 - No, it's not. This idea you have has been promoted by some people very aggresively but without any evidence and in fact contrary to all evidence I know of. The early Indoeuropeans of Khvalynsk and Yamnaya culture had *another* R1b subclade only distantly related to Western European R1b, later Indoeuropean populations, notably the main one that influenced Europe (Corded Ware and successors) had none of that and carried instead R1a, which we see also in Central European Bell Beaker and Unetice and is generally a good proxy to estimate Indoeuropean admixture by the male side. Western R1b (both the largest "French" clade R1b-S166 and the smaller "Northern" clade R1b-U106, brother lineages) is held by a very thin thread to the rest of R1b, including that early Indoeuropean one: somehow (Neolithic?) arrived to Western Europe and it expanded from some areas of Western Europe into other areas of the same region (my candidates for the cores are France for R1b-S116 and Denmark-Netherlands for R1b-U106).

[@richern2717]

Latest studies show that there were R1b in Corded Ware. If the Bell Beaker People did not speak Proto-Celtic or Italo-Celtic they surely spoke something not to distantly related to it looking at trade and interaction between the Isles and the Mainland eg. the Alps and even France, Denmark and Western parts of Germany. The area where Celtic and Italic split from each other seems to be located in Eastern France and Southwestern Germany. If a population with relatively similar DNA Haplogroups migrated from this area at a later stage, it could be that such a movement will be more difficult to trace and more genetic digging is needed. My question is why would a population of +-90% R1b L21 Males with significant Steppe Ancestry Autosomally decide to adopt a totally different Language ? And yes I hear some constant arguments about Bell Beakers speaking Basque however we know that Basque people Autosomally Pull more towards Sardinians....and their population is small compared to other areas with Million More R1b Males who speak Indo-European Languages.

[@Thebestman-f1j]

​@@richern2717 So what language did the Beaker people speak?

[@matthewmann8969]

Plenty of Celts still exist the Normans, Vikings, Anglos, Saxons, Anglo Saxons, And Germanics have not taken them out completely

[@Rico-v7r]

Even in England the DNA is still mostly Celtic.

[@johnpatrick5307]

@@Rico-v7r Celtic/ Middle Eastern.

[@Rico-v7r]

@@johnpatrick5307 I know. Our earliest ancestors in Ireland and Britain were from North Africa and the Middle east. My use of "Celtic" is just a simplification to differentiate from "Anglo-Saxon"

[@johnpatrick5307]

@@Rico-v7r The Celts weren't African - they came from the Steppes, the Indo Europeans - the original white people.

[@Rico-v7r]

@@johnpatrick5307 I'm not talking about Celts. I'm talking about the people in Ireland and Britain before the Celts

[@birdman9265]

It's very interesting how there are so many black haired Irish people like myself. I come from a family with very light skin color, jet black hair, and nearly-black irises. My grandmother always called this "Black Irish" and said it was from the Spanish Armada landing on the shores of Ireland but this makes far more sense.

[@Sean-jc6cu]

Not really that interesting. A large percentage of Irish people have dark hair. It's surprising to people outside of Ireland because they think we're all pale redheads

[@brandyanon8789]

Black Irish is absolutely Spanish living in Ireland. That is common sense. Just because you are born in Ireland.. doesn't mean you share the DNA of the original irish/basque. The same could be said for modern day dark haired people who live in the basque country. Just because they are from the basque country. Doesn't mean you share the original DNA of basque people.

[@tomkinstle1925]

DNA testing is mostly commercialized best guessing which cannot really be confirmed or denied (we don't know what every gene does, nor complete genetic makeup of any historical population). I think there's another explanation why unique DNA markers may show on a island population. See insular dwarfism. Additionally were talking about a male sex linked gene. Which means if I'm a male caring this gene, and only the male can provide the Y chromosome, then 100% of my male children will carry it too.

[@livingpicture]

I've been checking out a video series that explains why Y-chromosome or mitochondrial DNA (can be used like a female version of the Y-chromosome testing, as you only inherit MDNA from your mother) is actually very accurate, and both point to common male & female ancestors. There are small copy errors in your DNA throughout your life, which is part of why we age, or why certain men have certain genetic problems. Why don't all men have the same Y-chromosome genetic disorders? This also means there will be slight variations between you and your father, higher variations between you and your grandfather, and so on. The genome projects that have been done actually provide some new insight into not just heritage, but also where some people groups largely died off (like Native Americans due to Euro diseases, indicated by "grand canyon sized hole in DNA obscure populations" - quoting from another comment on this video), migrations, empires rising and falling, etc. It's also quite possible that even if you have the same skin color as your maternal grandfather, one of the two of you may be more closely related to someone of a different skin color, at least as indicated by Y-chromosomes. Very cool information that commercialized DNA testing will not show, as it shows entire DNA spectrum as opposed to those isolated to men.

[@tomkinstle1925]

@@livingpicture About 20-30 years ago some scientists came out and announce that they finished mapping the entire human genome and we're all basically the same. Then some other scientists said what about all this over here you missed. Then others mapped Neanderthal DNA, and more recently Denisovan DNA. It is still largely true that from a mile away we are basically all the same. There are also a lot of highly educated people who can tell you certain diseases have a genetic link, yet still seems to overshadow how little we actually understand about DNA's role.

[@Krawn_]

@@tomkinstle1925 if we are all the same why are they trying to race mix the Western white populations with black Africans,Arabs,Indians and Asians? why do they have advertisement everywhere of race mixing in the western nations? why are the Christian nations the only ones being invaded by every race that's not related to us only the nations that spread the Bible are being invaded

[@stephenp1131986]

I have learned two things since I started researching my overwhelmingly Irish DNA. 1. Todays modern halogroup clade R1b-L21(Beaker people) originated from somewhere around the Caspian sea in western Asia. Their migration route into Ireland probably didn't even touch Iberia, instead going through modern day Brittany (France) northwards, after a journey that went through central Europe. However it would seem a branch of the same people that went to Ireland, went to Iberia, but at a different time.. we know this because the Haplopgroups of Iberian R1b do not match those of the Irish R1b exactly. 2. Nevertheless there are still signatures of both the ancient farmers, and even the Hunter-Gatherers before them in indigenous modern Irish populations. 3. This suggests a genocide was unlikely due to a few factors... the genepool is still evident in modern Irish males and also the population of hunter gatherers at the time was so small, that the fact there is any genetic signature at all is remarkable and suggests the hunter gatherers never died out, and only assimilated in a limited way. 4. Modern Irish who have been relatively untouched by Viking, and English settlements, represent the original Beaker people to this day. I am one of those people who have largely Irish genetics along with Scottish and Welsh but very little or no Scandinavian input so I almost certainly wholely (genetically) represent the original Beaker folk who came over from Europe and west Asia (at least in the male line).

[@Diksjim]

this info is a bit mashed up and spewed it out for views. i cannot agree with this way too loose of yarn to be accurate

[@SuperBjanka]

Funny, I just read on the history of the sweet apple. The first dating of seeds from in northern Europe, is in 2500 BC Ireland.

[@saintdunstan431]

4500 years ago... isn't this approximately the time that New Grange was buried!?

[@SuperBjanka]

@@saintdunstan431 sorry, got the date wrong, the apple seeds was datet 1100 BC

[@O3177O]

V interesting , any good source to find more information tx 👌

[@johnotm]

I saw on langfocus a video about how Insular Celtic and Afro Asiatic languages share features. An Iberian origin would explain this. If Celtic speakers mixed with Afro-Asiatic speakers in Iberia before moving to Ireland and Britain

[@disapearingboi]

@Searlait Loughlin I see no similarity between Amazigh and Irish language. Can you give some examples of similar words/vocabulary? Similarity between Welsh & Irish is well documented. With Gaulish you can often simply drop the last letters at the end of a word to get the Irish word. Fore example ompare a Gaulish word for a horse such as caball(os) with the Irish capall. Other words such as ardus (high) with Irish ard or Gaulish catu with the Irish cáth (battle).

[@theCosmicQueen]

couldn't understand more than about 20 words he spoke. But, we all know about the story of the ancients handed down. The Tuatha de Danaan ( tribe of Dan? ) came and utterly demolished the Firbolgs, small dark people. then someone else came and conquered the Tuatha de danaan ( and sent them "under the ground" as in, buried them) apparently. Was that the current Celts?

[@Sean-jc6cu]

mythology

[@CaitrionaDowd]

I think the first evidence of farming in ireland was not dingle itwas in sligo with chide fields and magheraboy and neolithic monuments like poulnabrone and carrowmore. And the invasions from the book of invasions also mention the northern isles not just Spain, which is only mentioned in the last 5th invasion of the celts or milesians.

[@Fiddling_while_Rome_burns]

So the video is actually about a proposed early Bronze Age Migration, not a Celtic Era migration, very misleading title. As to the question at 7:00 how we can know? Its simple, the only way we can know anything for sure about prehistory, archaeology. Physical evidence is the only means to proving anything.

[@g-rexsaurus794]

Archeology has huge blind spots, entire events go unrecorded on the ground, if we used archeology to fool proof our written records on events such as battles, migrations and conquests, we would miss most of them. There is things were archeology is incredibly strong, like settlements, estimating spread of certain techniques and technology etc.

[@Fiddling_while_Rome_burns]

@@g-rexsaurus794 Prehistory has no written records, hence its moniker.

[@rin-m2j]

Trinity College did a study of DNA and have released their findings which you can find easily by searching the interwebs. The Annals of the 4 Masters mention several extinction events in Irish history, which were recorded from oral folklore before the British targeted the people tasked with the oral transmission for extermination.

[@nonnius2861]

Lol what incredible hyperbole. Obviously you must be joking

[@alfredmolison7134]

What was going on in the Mediterranean during that same time period? Are there Egyptian records or any other society’s records showing any massive disaster or migration of nations? Was there a climate catastrophe that was pushing people into a food driven invasion?

[@LuisAldamiz]

Egyptians were busy building the pyramids: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Kingdom_of_Egypt Cretans were in the pre-palatial period: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minoan_civilization#Early_Minoan Cypriots were transitioning to the Bronze Age: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philia_culture There's no written information yet, at most some references to Egypt's internal affairs. AFAIK, in Ireland and possibly in Britain we see a demographic decline (many less archaeological findings) than in previous periods before that demographic change happens. However less clear is what happened in Iberia, were the same phenomenon is apparent (also in the Alpine region surely) but previous decline is less clear.

[@canyoncreekster]

yes very much so, Ice age climate change, black sea and Mediterranean inundation,s , The sea people invasions of Egypt, The Sumerian arrival in Mesopotamia, Black sea was less than half the size it is today around 4000 BC.

[@LuisAldamiz]

@Searlait Loughlin - The last part is not true: no Egyptian artifacts were found and in fact no Egyptian artifacts are known in Western Europe at least until the Bronze Age. Newgrange artifacts, for as much as they are documented are just typical Neolithic/Chalcolithic grave goods, you know: a prestigious variscite (green stone) axe maybe, pots that used to hold food or drink, some gold spirals (pocket money of the time, you cut off chunks when needed) at most. The person buried was apparently product of first degree incest, which has been compared to Egyptian (and Zoroastrian) "divine marriage" traditions between siblings or otherwise close relatives of the royal family. However, as it's only one case, we can't conclude that it was also a western tradition or that it was a rare incident (incest does happen without need of religious justification). In any case Ireland or in general West Europe north of Central Portugal can't be considered in those "civilized" because it lacked cities.

[@LuisAldamiz]

@Searlait Loughlin - Well, it's clear that Scota is made up at least in the Egyptian details. Legends may and often hold a kernel of truth but most of the details tend to be rather capricious and evolve over time. Scots only appear in history in the Middle Ages, they were a Celtic people and thus should not have arrived to Ireland before the La Tène period, beginnig c. 500 BCE. All Western Megalithism (dolmenism and associated structures) is pre-Indoeuropean, Vasconic almost necessarily. Indoeuropeans had other burial customs, notably ones that were not "collective" (clannic?) but were very much individualist instead. I can't find any reference to Egyptian style faience beads in relation to the Mound of the Hostages. There were beads but nobody says they were Egyptian, at least nobody I can find. I feel you're being misled by pseudohistorians with a UFO or otherwise Egypto-centric agenda of some sort. Newgrange may (or not) be slightly older than Stonehenge but is not older than other Western Megalithism, notably Carnac (so often forgotten in insular though, yet so important especially for the roots of British and Irish megalithism, but also for the Iberian beehive tombs, which are from around the same date as Newgrange and are associated to civilization -- Los Millares, one of the two oldest West European civilizations). Newgrage may represent some sort of ancient monarchy in Ireland (or parts of it), I wouldn't want to dismiss it as unimportant, but I wouldn't like the site and its significance to be contaminated with too speculative or utterly false notions either.

[@LuisAldamiz]

@Searlait Loughlin - The Scots are AFAIK a medieval North Irish (Gaelic) tribe, which are most famous for having invaded Caledonia and given it their name (and also their Gaelic language, Picts appear to have spoken some variant of Brythonic instead). All them are from a much much later period than Newgrange (late Iron Age and Middle Ages). I know that British and Irish prehistorians don't (normally) use the term Chalcolithic (or its rarer version: Eneolithic) but for all purposes (European chronology) they belong to the Chalcolithic, which begins around 3000 BCE and is not defined by copper or soft metallurgy but by greater socio-economic development compared to Neolithic proper (hierarchies, division of labor, etc. -- often also copper, gold and silver metallurgy but not necessarily so, after all it's the age of "copper and stone", not just "of copper"). Newgrange is barely older than Stonehenge I, if at all. It's also not older than other Megalithism in the area like that of Orkney or the already mentioned as extremely important Carnac complex. It's also not (or not sinificatively older) than the South Iberian civilizations of Los Millares (already standing c. 3025 BCE) and Vila Nova de São Pedro, both strongly related to megalithism (Los Millares also to beehive toms, as is Carnac, arguably the oldest beehive tombs are from there, while VNSP were rather into hypogees instead). Ireland is not doubt an island but it was not an island in terms cultural.

[@erikhasler]

What happened there at the end?

[@studyofantiquityandthemidd4449]

The ending with just me??

[@erikhasler]

@@studyofantiquityandthemidd4449 after that, the last 5 minutes is blackness. I would have thought it would be for ad revenue purposes, but there isn't a single commercial on the whole vid! From just before 8:30 until 13:30 is just limbo.

[@studyofantiquityandthemidd4449]

Erik Hasler that is the weirdest thing that has ever happened!!

[@studyofantiquityandthemidd4449]

Erik Hasler I’m doing an interview and so I’ll edit that out here on KZbin. Thanks for that!!

[@erikhasler]

@@studyofantiquityandthemidd4449 all good! Keep up the good work!

[@elizabethannegrey6285]

Interesting topic. The sound for your guest is blurred and indistinct.

[@nickcollins7562]

I totally agree that basing analysis solely on one line of evidence is faulty, piltdown man being an excellent example. Dentists the whole time said the teeth werent right but they were ignored. If the archaeology doesnt support a violent replacement then id have to argue cultural is a strong contender.

[@GreenGino]

Generally speaking if it happened do you think they would leave evidence , and if there was any evidence it could have been distroyed or distorted by them or distroyed by nature and if any survived what is the chance of finding it. The victor of war has always wrote history in there prospective and word of mouth changes the truth, so it depends on who, what, when and were the information comes from.

[@layman9231]

Ireland experienced multiple genocide s

[@feral7523]

The Irish were never fully Celtic is my opinion, in the sense yes they would have had similarities in culture and religion most likely due to contact from constant trade and small scale wars/raiding along south and east coasts but as an island we have always been a bit diiferent from our mainland cousins.As for DNA I'd be reluctant to depend on it as over the last recent few centuries we've had an influx of foreigners from our overbearing obnoxious neighbours and they have a completely diluted gene pool being mostly scandinavian/germanic and prior to them the Romans imported countless soliders from all over europe,mid-east & africa that settled there too. In the Irish histories The Milesians were apprently from northern Iberia and also the Fir Bolg which would be from the lowlands(belgium,Flanders&Netherlands) I assume and also the Tuatha de Dannan which Im supposing are the Danish so for me DNA testing means very little. If you ask were the Irish the last or one of the last cultures in Europe practicing something similar to the Celts up until the 12th century? absolutely, as by then the European Celtic culture had being absorbed into the Roman sphere long ago or wiped out by the Goths ,Attila etc afterwards and the fanatical christian church destroyed aas much of the old ways as it could which didn't happen in Ireland as we were seperate from Rome having adopted a more orthodox and less severe form which incorporated ancient beliefs and practices some of which still survive despite catholism being forced on us by the Normans/Brits ironically! but thats a story for another day!

[@kickinghorse2405]

Celts (Milesians) came, Túatha Dé underground. Seems clear

[@deeppurple883]

View or judge ! . What do you suggest we do with the uncovering of new facts. How far down do you dig. When does a crime stop being a crime

[@ninobelov4153]

Invador who did genocide were R1b but natives were Slavic I2 HAPLOGROUP among MEN & WOMEN and G haplpgroup was just one of minority haplogroups.

[@RampantNarcissism]

An example of a total cultural wipeout: BEOTHUK

[@hankterreros223]

The sound?

[@ingmigueleduardo7]

Iberia was a refugia of indoeuropean tribes who fled from the last glacial age genocide.... It's are full of celtic sculptures, hillforts & other monuments made by this people specially in northwest Iberia (Galicia) & north-central Portugal. Monuments like the celtic wild boar motif named in Portugal as the "Berrao" is a distinct element of material culture made by them. Galicia + Portugal + westernmost parts of Asturias & Leon provinces were an ancient kingdom of this people. They named themselves "Galos" or "Galegos", name "celts" was just an exonym given to them by other groups of peoples

[@salvadorrivera6894]

😀😀 my blood is Iberian Celts and we still own the fighting titles in the arenas pride and honor to the last breath we are the goats from the mountains hot blooded humans have our God is call let the blood get spill in battle do all Europe came to us for help for the battle fields I wounder why probably because vwe are the best killing machines made by the creator 😎😘

[@roshifugai8113]

Indeed we are, Cousin.

[@ingmigueleduardo7]

Maybe it was not a "massacre", maybe celtic Galos from Iberia just repopulated Eire (Ireland) & Alba (Scotland) more than 4000 years ago. It is known through recent genetic studies that haplogroup R1b (which is the celtic indoeuropean haplogroup) has a high tendency to have male offspring and to be the most warlike or better say militaristic, patrilineal & patrilocal race of indoeuropean tribes. Perhaps this is the reason why the celtic Galos from Iberia were successful in repopulating areas of Ireland and Scotland, previously damaged or genocided by the creators of the last glacial age (i suspect the last glacial age 24.000 until 11.500 BCE was artificially made to erase populations of Europe)

[@mcleblanc4968]

Were those men made slaves to farm the land and their women reserved to invaders.

[@LuisAldamiz]

In Spain the pop-science version from the same story is that invaders from Ireland massacred much of Iberian male population. Well, OK, not from Ireland but from somewhere else, all the rest is what some people like Olalde promote in the media. However, the real origin was what we now call France most likely (long story short). If you're interested I can expand A LOT. I can advance that those were not "Celts" but something very close to modern Basques, i.e. a distinctive Western variant of Neolithic peoples, one that had much more Paleo-European admixture. Also we have no clear evidence of "genocide", we just know that there was a large demographic replacement (and not just on the male side surely), it might have been preceded by a demographic collapse but we don't know enough.

[@bucksfuttly1325]

Do you believe the Celts originated in modern day Austria?

[@LuisAldamiz]

@@bucksfuttly1325 - In the area of South and Central Germany, Czech Republic, Austria and German Switzerland. However the same area corresponds also to Italo-Celts in an earlier period (Bronze Age), so proto-Celts were probably an specific subgroup of those older Italo-Celts. The exact specifics are blurry but my take is that Tumuli Culture (middle Bronze Age) and Urnfields Culture (late Bronze Age) were Italo-Celts, while their local Iron Age descendants (Hallstatt and La Tène) were specifically Celtic already. Probably Celts and Italics (or some say "Italoids", including groups like Lusitanians) were already somewhat diverged in the Urnfields Culture, but they still shared the same archaeological culture and almost certainly worked together often enough.

[@TheM41a]

Luis Aldamiz R1b-L51 has been found in corded ware Luis. Game over. Bell beakers were Northern European emerging from single grave networks and that’s clearly reflected comparing Iberian Bronze Age samples to the preceding neolithic/chalcolithic we can deduce from autosomal turnover (around ~40%) that the incoming beakers had a similar steppe ratio to modern northern europeans (ie Irish people) as the BA iberian metapopulation were themselves around ~20%. Basic math really. The only one spreading “pop science” is you Maju. So hardly like modern basques who have too little steppe to cause such turnover. But of course they weren’t “celts” I’ll concede you that.

[@LuisAldamiz]

@@TheM41a - U106 to be specific but ONLY in Scandinavia (Sweden if I recall correctly) and only in one instance. U106 is NOT ancestral to S116, but its Nordic "brother" and S116 is so far only associated to Bell Beaker and Basque-like and Irish-like genetics, even in Germany it corresponds to a decline of Indoeuropean autosomal genetics and increase of Basque-like genetics instead. Get real and learn to play chess. There's no checkmate, not even check from you. Get real and learn your damn genetics!

[@LuisAldamiz]

@@TheM41a - BB people were almost identical in Ireland to modern Irish and in the Basque Country (and all Iberia at least in the Bronze Age) to modern Basques. The North branch of BB expansion thus had some lesser IE admixture (much less than your 40%, 10% at most, models are often rigged) that the southern Basque-like or Iberian branch didn't. The NE German branch had even more IE admixture but in this case it is clear that the IE component falls a lot compared to Corded Ware. The Moravian branch however was identical to previous Corded Ware and to later Unetice culture and showed no Basque-like nor Irish-like admixture instead. So we can only conclude unadmixed IE continuity in the Eastern province at most (technically we can only speak of Moravia, we lack data for other areas of that region), however they show a pre-Indoeuropean (Globular Amphora) cultural adoption, reversing the trend of Corded Ware, so even there there was some sort of cultural dilution of Indoeuropeanness, even if not genetic nor probably linguistic. You neo-nazis are trying to push the false idea of Western Europeans being essentially Indoeuropeans in terms genetic. That's extremely false: Western Europeans are variably Indoeuropean in terms genetic but the pre-Indoeuropean (Basque-like) element clearly dominates. The reference for Indoeuropeanness are probably Polish and even those are only around half "true Indoeuroepean", even Corded Ware people were already getting diluted. Stop racism!

[@lallyoisin]

could have read that myself. bring someone on the researcher that believes it and you'll have my attention!

[@jamistardust5181]

As I understand they were all celts.

[@LuisAldamiz]

Basque-like peoples, however the branch which reached Britain and Ireland was slightly admixed with Indoeuropeans from Central Europe (precursors of Celts, Italics, etc.), nevertheless their R1b lineages are just "brothers" of those we see in Iberia and the Alps (the three lines of expansion from a center whch was surely in what is now France).

[@waynemcauliffe2362]

My bloody ancestors i don`t know

[@johngamba4823]

As soon as I heard ‘Alastair Moffatt’ I switched off.

[@saintdunstan431]

Why? Not heard of him.

[@johngamba4823]

He is a not very well regarded author who recently started up a DNA ancestry company. He writes the type of books you see in tacky gift shops. Here in Scotland (he is Scottish) he is regarded as a joke/crank

[@saintdunstan431]

Ah that is sad. With those types I tend to say best of luck to them and then stay away; they tend not to mean any harm, rarely anyone does.

[@veronicalogotheti5416]

Thank you Celts were in iberia

[@jonathongladigau2690]

Well mabey this could make sense. My father is almost full Welsh/Celtic when he did a DNA test except some small Scandinavan and English add mixture. Yet my father is dark skinned, yes was blonde when young but dark skinned as an adult with some freckles and brown eyes. He is never thought to be from the British isles. I have alot more scandinavan and some eastern European from my mother mostly being German decent. But she has some Scottish background, but I am still quiet dark skinned with Hazel brown eyes. I do look alitte lighter than my dad. But these genes are still coming through quiet strong and yet most people think of celts being all fair skinned. But I read that alot of britons or Welsh in the mountains are quiet dark.

[@mirzaghalib8659]

some Welch folks are of darker skin tones when compared to the people that have lived close by Wales.... the Irish, Scottish, Manx, British and those from the northern most areas of France called Brittany... these other people are also Gaelic speaking peoples all... it seems to me that the darker hair and skin of some Welch folks (think Tom Jones and Catherine Zeta Jones) are but a minority group compared with greater Wales

[@Chaoswithin]

G(2a2a2) man checking in, albeit from Ukraine.

[@aidanmagill6769]

Communicating science in Texas has got to be a challenging job 🤣

[@kingfin492]

When do the “Twa” people come into Ireland’s history? I’ve read an interesting theory that they are actually the leprechauns of legends as they were pygmies.

[@barryb90]

Haha alright lad. Don't believe everything you see on the Internet. Complete BS. There's nothing in Irish DNA , history or mythology to even hint that.

[@ifjchsiwocjcjs4378]

Thats absolute bullshit 🤣🤣. Its made up by afrocentric people that think they are the natives of every country. Please dont believe everything you see on the internet

[@conorfields171]

man these university educated people... but ah so yea... they also end every sentence in a question? with a raised last word? and thosr southern irish people all go up and down in pitch when talking, every ancient irish speaker from the south are talking like this guy with a rhymn and rythumn to their speech from a northern working class guy these guys r called 'pretentious'

[@Spectrophia]

Can you explain that again in English? Cheers.

[@tysonclark5974]

Can you do oriental content

[@azariahisrael5632]

American by birth. West Highland Gael by Blood. R1b L21 >L1335> S764. This Haplogroup ultimately goes back to Niall of the 9 hostages and the Irish Kings of O'Neill...

[@mirzaghalib8659]

you mind recommending a book or perhaps a well done video on this subject? appreciate it

[@Spectrophia]

It doesn't go back to him personally just a common ancestor from thousands of years ago.

[@johnkirke8356]

It is now considered that Celtic does not refer to a genetic group of people..

[@Rico-v7r]

There's no consensus on that. Most genetic data would point to an ethnic group different enough from Germanic, Slavic, Italic etc

[@tamihansen4142]

El_Choctaw_lord_de_AztlanCalifasMexico =ANTZ

[@gruboniell4189]

I’m a descendant of mileseus of Spain/Ireland. I’m an ONeill..

[@carolgebert7833]

I suspect the genocide did happen, but much later. I suspect Iberian Celts invaded Ireland during the early Roman period, pushing the Picts into Ulster. That is why Q-Celtic is closer to Iberian Celtic than to Welsh. Caesar described blue-painted Picts challenging his landings in Ireland, but a century later, Romans describe Ireland as controlled by Celts. I read one historian speculate that Caesar’s tenth legion (from Spain) remembered how poorly defended the island was, when they retired. So they came back with their families and set themselves up as kings.

[@deanfirnatine7814]

BS

[@juandamyles9797]

Ireland before it was called such had ancient people who lived there of which were the Twe, an African "pygmy " group. It took decades and generations before we get to "Irish". Celts looked like a mixed people who are a forerunner of the "Irish". Ish meaning like but I'm not sure who they were like.

[@ifjchsiwocjcjs4378]

There were no “twa” in ireland. Please do some research and dont believe everything you see on the internet. The “theory” is absoulute bullshit

[@icemanire5467]

Why do Black Americans keep spouting this shit and there's literally no evidence? Not in genetics or linguistics or any sort of historical migration. Nothing.

[@mgmor05]

Ireland is an island, The modern Irish people are known as ''Gaels'''

[@Rico-v7r]

Our ancestors are a mix of Earlier peoples from the Middle East, North Africa and the Celts.

[@mgmor05]

@@Rico-v7r Our ancestors would be the Bell Beakers,Basques and Celts

[@terryernest6264]

If that was the case you would have also gone to Cornwall too...?

[@joshua3171]

plauge, disease

[@joycedoty5982]

H

[@veronicalogotheti1162]

Irish are not celts

[@Amy-m9s]

Nice

[@Amy-m9s]

Hate proven

[@she8275]

It was the moors, not Spain

[@icemanire5467]

Considering the Moors came into being when the Arabs invaded North Africa and interbred with Berbers after the death of Muhammad. You're thousands of years off.

[@lordvonmanor6915]

Blahahaha, very funny. People, when someone tells you they came from the near East or Central Asia it means the Celts were Blacks. What even funnier is the fact they are documented in ancient Germanic literature as being Mauren (Blacks) as well as the Vikings, Norse, and Danes. They were all documented as being Preta Mauren meaning pure breed (Aboriginal Blacks) or Sorte. Meaning European Asian Aboriginies or you can say Central Asian N Word. Today you say African Americans, Native Americans, East Egyptains, and South Asians or simply Creoles or Coloureds or Moors. The ancient saying goes like this, alles Mauren sind Maure, aber nicht alle Mauren sind farbig (All Blacks are Indigenous Moors, but not all Blacks are Coloured). In other words Blacks are the Europeans and they make up the various tribes, Celts Vikings, Danes, Spanish... Because they were created their. They did not come out of Africa, they were a product of Heidelbergensis. The first humans were dark Black multiracials. That's why still today you call the Blacks (Mauren) of Maure (Europe).

[@Spectrophia]

You've been smoking too much crack. Sorry you have no idea what your talking about because you were enslaved and lost all bearing on reality over hundreds of years. Hope it works out for you in the end.

[@lordvonmanor6915]

@@Spectrophia I guess you think Putin and Angela Merkel both smoke crack for agreeing with me. Everybody is on crack but you.