DnD Player Takes Friendly PvP TOO FAR | r/rpghorrorstories

[@Nyghtking]

That kobold and goblin interaction reminds me of a kobold comic where two kobolds get into an argument over who's better at sorting moss.

[@majinnbuu9363]

They gave him 3 chances: After trying to cut the rope, then when he "changed his backstory", and finally letting him survive the fall only to say he was going to do something again.

[@josephgeorge5741]

She sounds like a sweetheart. She deserved better treatment.

[@stephenadams8712]

Justice for Bippity

[@WTFisTingispingis]

JUSTICE.

[@glitchedmako7246]

Bippity support squad!

[@pulsefel9210]

Barbarian: *holding a goblin and kobold up by their clothes* are you two really fighting over who has the better rocks? Goblin and kobold: YES!

[@Thedragonlover95]

A friendly Goblin who is this sweet, I honestly wouldn't even think they had bad intentions.

[@marybdrake1472]

This goblin in this story sounds like a fun, well intentioned, if a little misguided, chaos gremlin. If I were in a party with this player and that character I would have a very hard time not laughing my butt off.

[@alanbear6505]

There’s definitely a line between “heated argument “ and “attempted murder”.

[@scorch2155]

Yup. My SW5e game has me.playong a former judicial and another character is part of a criminal group and they have an active rival as neither trusts the other to where they do minor slights such as my character buys 3 gas masks for himself and the other two party members because the criminal already wears a mask so he'll be fine if they encounter gas, it's only mild as the criminal has the moat money put of the entire party. But when combat hits both characters fight side by side and help each other as there are bigger things going on then their rivalry.

[@RiveroftheWither]

Clovis sounds like the kind of kid who would bully the hell out of someone in school only to then make the excuse that it wasn't bullying, they're just having fun when his victim finally snaps. People are people like you, they aren't toys you can treat however you want without consequences for personal entertainment. There is no world, outside of video games where people can be your play things and you get treated with love, friendship and adoration.

[@paulman34340]

Agree with you on this. This is why I do not feel anything towards folk like that When they're victim, finally hits them back and all that and they try to pull that excuse. No I believe a small, very small. Part of them. Knew what they were doing is Bullying. But they've deluded themselves into believing it's not. In this manner they can play the ignorant excuse. But as a bully victim myself And shamefully my one half year stunt AS a bully. I can tell you that It's just Full bullshit on their end To avoid getting the consequences they so richly deserve. It's why the very moment I see someone try to play that trick. I immediately interrupt them and tell them I am 1. not stupid and know they know what they are doing and unlike them, I don't treat others as stupid Like he's doing to me, so who's expecting to play some Freudian Excuse or get pity he won't with me. We're not kids Anymore so you know better. And i'm quite sure that they did tell the new player The rules he just chose to ignore it. And while talk about your first game becoming a power gaming bully Of the worst caliber. I kind of use stuff like this. As proof that twitter and social media doesn't turn people into assholes, they were naturally assholes And were just looking for excuses

[@aidenhughes2472]

And when the person snaps they would play the victim

[@tek2095]

Ah, Gaslighting. "it WAs jUST A JOke!" "YoU NEEd to GeT A SenSE OF hUmoR!"

[@GarkKahn]

It happened to my group of friends 2 weeks ago The victim finally snapped and they fought over a sandwich, when the bully complains about how stupid it was for fighting about something so trivial i told him "no, you idiot. you guys fought because you've been an unsufferable asshole for weeks now and that damn food was just the last time he could keep up with your stupid bullshit"

[@paulman34340]

@@GarkKahnIt's always funny to watch a bully "pathetically" try and gaslight everyone (Seriously, they act like assholes, and they don't think anyone would catch on? I tend to assume that tactic worked for them in the past that they PANIC when it doesn't! Just proof a bully never grows up! The only thing about them that does is their "Viciousness")

[@Snowfox572]

sounds to me like Clovis just wanted a target to bully.

[@Trontato]

Bippity must be protected and loved at all cost in every dnd session

[@Theokal3]

ikr?! She sounds adorable^^

[@Trontato]

@@Theokal3 she does and I can see her doing a small dance when the other party members find better equipment or food in their bags and being happy about it

[@GreatestRedPanda]

I have to say, the way the DM handled the bridge event from start to finish was so refreshingly well done that it gave me goosebumps. So often we hear horror stories where a big part of the problem is the DMs inability to correctly handle an event like this between players, that hearing this so masterfully shepherded by the DM is almost euphoric. Bravo!

[@unluckyone1655]

Even my grumpy fighter would find Bippity endearing.

[@Theokal3]

My reaction to Bibbity was exactly the same! she sounds adorable and precious, and this Clovis guy bullying her pisses me off.

[@black69071]

I get the feeling that Clovis, was just using rivalries as an excuse. The fact his backstory included orcs but wanted to target goblins. I agree with him trying to look for a punching bag.

[@vortega472]

Simba, the wisdom he holds - you can see it in his eyes - all knowing, all seeing, and no doubt - all pooping. Such a wise and wonderful Kitty. The OOP's character sounds so endearing - almost kitten like with the shiny collection. Glad it worked out, and kudos to the DM.

[@donutchan8114]

Bippity having a crow personality was really funny

[@blackdemonknight]

To use a good B99 meme: 'I only known Bibbidy for a few minutes, but if anything happened to them I would kill everyone in the game and then myself'

[@Profile__1]

Awwwwww man, I love Bippity so much. She's so damn cute and sweet! Just a silly nice little gobbo trying to help everyone. I love how she thinks rocks and sticks are really nice gifts, and once told they aren't that useful, she immediately goes looking for an apple. God damn it, she's so cute it hurts

[@DunantheDefender]

A goblin with the Returning trait? Now I've seen everything.

[@krystlvines]

were I the DM i'd have clovis lose his paladin powers

[@tmacm2237]

I like that, a reverse rogue.😂

[@AlexandraSaysHi]

Clovis didn't want a rivalry, he was just being a straight up bully and murderer, and trying to use softer words to hide that fact. Bibbity sounds adorable and Im glad the Dungeon Master didnt let that crap fly but I feel he should have put his foot down and made things crystal clear much earlier on.

[@dracone4370]

I think it could be fun to see Doge turn his cats into D&D characters. Would Simba really be a Monk? Or would it be more fitting to make him a Cleric?

[@AvatAR42420]

I think Clovis wanted to have a "rivalry" because he did not like the OPs non-min-maxed build and wanted to "teach them a lesson" by killing their character. He completely lacked social awareness and was quite stupid in not realizing that even if he succeeded in killing the rogue, his character would most likely die and at the very least would not be allowed to be part of the party anymore. Honestly the party was more than patient with his BS and the stuff he was doing should have got him a firm talking to (mostly in character), followed by his character getting the boot as the guy JUST KEPT DOUBLING DOWN.

[@paulman34340]

Poster said he was a first time player. That shocked me that first time playing and already he became a power gaming asshole! Well, at least this is more proof that social media doesn't make people a*******People were assholes long before social media 😂. He can clearly follow instructions looking at how he built his character. And looking at behavior I won't be surprised if he's acted this way before And gotten away with it, so when you finally ran into people who weren't going to play ball So he kept trying the push after making fake apologies. Only it didn't work out for him

[@paulman34340]

But something in me doesn't believe that he was a first time Player. He could easily have just looked for different games And got him so booted that he played the first time gamer to lower people's guard. His complaint about The open game and questioning the poster Choice of being a roleplayer before moving to bully him. Makes me believe that he's probably middle of the road in experience. Not an expert but someone who's been in the field and community For a while. As someone who's dealted with bullies before. I remember a few of them who were transfer students getting the lay of the land before they took off their mask and became bullies. Likely so they could know who's a victim and who is likely going to have. Friends will pound a shit out of them if they go After them. After all A bully's main objective is the basically gets satisfaction in making things miserable for their victim With little chance of their victim fighting back and if their victim does fight back because contrary It's a popular belief. Many bullies are smart enough to take into mind Thier victim might strike back. They tried to make certain They know how to counter and discourage the victim from ever trying to fight back. Or they have ready made explanations for when any authority figures Come a knocking. You can see it when they're trying so hard to make their case and when The person doesn't bite, Then they'll just rant or argue or anything because now they're in a panic because they were so sure they would Have successfully gas lighted. As they say bullies are panicky cowardly creatures

[@martabachynsky8545]

@@paulman34340 I agree. Clovis reminds me of the person who would watch a poker game and say "Whatcha playin? I _never_ saw that game before".

[@PaladinGear15]

Some players just want an excuse to bully others without consequences, I swear.

[@JSRLPadre]

If only the studio behind Legend of Vox could do an adaptation of Bibbidy and her party. I wanna see this campaign. Especially when she meets her true rival!

[@Svartalf14]

As a counterexample, I recently had a game where I played a drow. One of the other players warned me that, in character, she was going to insult me because her character hated Drow after fighting a war against them. I said OK. In the end, she did not even get the opportunity to rail at me, because I saved her life, since were were together on a mission to end the war.

[@fred_derf]

I was so sure that Bippity was going to drop the tree on Clovis... Good thing there is no gambling on these stories...

[@Isaygoodday5]

It's almost hilarious how they had that big conversation, he seemed to understand, then almost immediately proved that no, he in fact did not understand

[@CandyChaos7]

Bippity reminded me of that Goblin PC in CR Campaign 2.

[@mentalrebllion1270]

I am fully on op and dm’s side of this. Trust me, I’ve played in games where there is conflict between characters allowed. I loved it! But it was discussed, always. Example, we had a Paladin join the table who was looking for her father who went missing years ago on some mission he was determined to complete. During the character creation the player had expressed that they wanted a tie in for the part to rp with. I offered up a portion of my backstory. I had already written that my character lost their entire family during a power struggle between royal factions. I offered up for her father to have been one of those hired to assassinate my character’s family. This would have maybe created a conflict but I also made my character a huge caretaker who latches in to their found family, of which the Paladin had become part of. The struggle for my character was going to be choosing between avenging their past family (and assuaging their survivor’s guilt) and still honoring and protecting their new found family, of which they were a mentor or best friend of (depending on which character it was). It was intended also to be a moment for Paladin, who hero worshipped their father, to become disillusioned with them. All of that was to lead to us addressing the issues of our characters had psychologically. Largely that campaign was about lack of communication and trauma which we leaned into the themes of. Despite the lack of communication between characters, we players would always discuss things above board to make sure we were on the same page. Another instance was when my character joined a party (was a later addition to the table). My character was a scholar sure but also a swordsman. We also had a monk. The monk and I realized our characters had a lot of parallels and are now in discussions about how we can slowly, organically, build them up to be close friends because of their initial “click” we sensed. Same with me communicating relevant backstory information that tied this character in some manner to each player. For instance, am part of the same scholar faction as the artificer, am from the same hometown as the wizard and would know the last name because of my character’s family’s business, have had a similar god powered incident as the ranger, and lastly, and sociable and people adoring as our cleric (my character also dotes on them immediately as cleric gives off younger sibling vibes and my character is compulsively an eldest sibling and caretaker). All of this is communicated but! We also discuss. There was talk of weaving in a backstory character connection between my character and theirs but after discussions with dm, we both dropped it since it seemed to not align with the journey and growth we wanted for our characters (it was going to be very tragic and emotional stabby). But we discussed this! Even if we didn’t reveal full backstory secrets, we did communicate. I mean, the party is also having fun unraveling one of the tiny secrets of my character which is a positive and friendly connection they had with a citizen from the opposite side of the ongoing war. What they haven’t unraveled? It was a romantic one and if the tragedy hadn’t happened, my character had plans to leave everything behind to runaway with them. Now my character just has trauma from not being able to protect everyone (which they do compulsively and is being addressed as their planned character arc). Still! While there is conflict, I make a solid point of never overlapping it with a lack of communication. I love collaboration and a lack of communication is deeply unsettling to me. So, for those reasons, this story solidly has me on op and dm’s side and not that problem player. It’s all well and good to build a conflict, but not at the expense of others and without consent and communication from those involved.

[@Olive_ito]

GOD, I FUCKING LOVE GOBLINS, IN THAT HIT WITH SNEAK ATTACK THE GOBLINE PROBABLY GOT OVER 30 DAMAGE WITH FURY OF THE SMALL, I'M PRETTY SURE THEY WERE LEVEL 9 SO AT A MAX ROUGE CROSSBOW SHOT OF 16 DAMAGE, AND AT A MAX SNEAK ATTACK (which if im being honest, never happens, unless you have some thing that gives you max damage rolls like kopi from curious curios ((world of io campaign)) but I've actually never seen that for a rouge and for good reason, that kind of damage on a level 6 rouge would be insane) IT WOULD GO INTO THE 40'S EASILY, GOD GOBLINS ARE SO GOOD.

[@WTFisTingispingis]

Aww, poor Bippity was so cute.

[@themightypen1530]

I did have one game where the players split in to two groups and ended up being adversarial. Everyone actually had a lot of fun and there were no hard feelings. Of course we were all experienced TTRPers, had played many games before (and after) and the campaign was basically a one shot so no one was heavily emotionally invested in anything.

[@l0stndamned]

While I can respect that the goblin's gimmick could get annoying, the paladin was clearly more interested in having someone to be a dick to rather than anything character-based.

[@ByrdieFae]

Bippity sounds so adorable and sweet I think my teeth would melt if I were in the party. ❤❤❤

[@tmacm2237]

Definitely NOT a paladin.

[@solosynapse]

Absolute chaotic evil behaviour.

[@martabachynsky8545]

Anti-Paladin? That was a class I remember from the 1980s; Chaotic evil (I think).

[@Doodle1776]

PVP almost always goes too far which is why I outright don't allow it. Now I will wait for all of those who want to claim that somehow the 99.9999% of times that it fails and goes terribly wrong is actually a good thing and everyone should give it a try because they love it. Let those who want a toxic play group stay within a group of like minded people instead of ruining what is supposed to be a group effort, team game for the rest of us.

[@TheonlyMaskedMime]

No I agree with you PVP tends to turn toxic very fast with people who don't know 1) how it's done 2) when to stop

[@heatherharrison264]

It sounds like everyone in the group except for Clovis was able to handle some friendly rivalry with maturity and was able to use it to advance the story and characters. Not allowing it to go beyond words or maybe a one-point punch, as all of the characters except for Clovis did, seems like a good idea. This story shows that all it takes is one bad player to cause the whole situation to go off the rails. I'm glad the group was able to get rid of Clovis and then return to a mild rivalry dynamic that worked for them. It seems clear that Clovis's player was simply looking for an excuse to bully someone and was using D&D as an outlet for his desire to bully. I hope he either learns not to behave this way or never finds another D&D game. If I ran a game, I would likely do what you do and not allow PvP activities at all. Furthermore, I won't join a game that allows PvP. The sort of mild rivalry that this group enjoys sounds appealing to me, but I would have a hard time trusting other people to handle it well. PvP should only be attempted when the players have the maturity to maintain emotional distance from their characters, the DM and all of the players agree to it, they set clear ground rules, and any player who violates those rules is immediately and unceremoniously booted from the game. I suspect that only a small minority of D&D groups meets these conditions. As this story shows, even a group that encourages mild, relatively friendly rivalries is taking a big risk. It's a shame that there aren't many people who are mature enough to handle this, as conflict is a major element of a good story.

[@Doodle1776]

@@heatherharrison264 the maturity of players isn't the issue as no matter how mature players are people will very likely take it personally. DnD was never meant to be a PvP game but a teamwork game. This is why it should never be tried unless you either want a toxic group or want the group to collapse. As even players game-directed with control spells attacking fellow players often gets personal or goes bad.

[@maceyshort2681]

I wanna fight over rocks!! That sounds hilarious

[@TigerKirby215]

I understand thinking the goblin is a thief and making a rivalry out of it, but attacking players and humiliating them in ways that go far beyond reason is just excessive bullying. There's a difference between teasing and smearing the equivalent of poop in someone's face, and obviously trying to kill someone because "I don't like you ha ha" would be psychopathic behavior irl.

[@Flufferz342]

You know something crazy? Clovis could have easily turned this “rivalry” into a plot device for his character. Since he said his character was attacked by orcs. It can turn into a grudge and lead to assumptions that all monsters are like that and justify his actions. That whole scene at the bridge could have been a great turning point for character growth in Clovis realizing the errors of his ways, addressing his character flaws and building from that in his character learning to trust Bipiddy. He could have communicated with OP about how he wants to use their character as a plot device. But nope he was too obsessed with this “rivalry”bs and just wanted a punching bag to feel better about himself. At that point it’s just bullying

[@mrosskne]

the great thing about prowlers and paragons is that since players can't die, they can beat the shit out of each other as much as they want and it's no big deal.

[@johngleeman8347]

Thanks Simba!

[@Plamkton]

*sigh* always the paladin, QUIT MAKING THE PALADINS LOOK BAD!!!!

[@DFAnton]

Easy powergaming classes/options have a way of attracting...*certain* players.

[@Plamkton]

@@DFAnton yes main character syndrome, but why paladin....

[@solosynapse]

​@@PlamktonBecause the worst people always see themselves as The Good Guy™. Just look at any cartoonishly evil CEO or politician.

[@MenxiGoblinQueen]

Bippity is a good gobbo

[@andrewbyrne2173]

I think the DM has to take some of the blame for not spotting how bad it had gotten.

[@aidenhughes2472]

How in f**king hell do you get a goblin and a orc confused with one another did he think that the dm would buy that

[@kainslegacy78618]

If the only fantasy universe you've ever got to are Tolkien's books maybe, but i highly doubt that.

[@7thsealord888]

I don't like PvP as a DM or a Player because I feel that it can poison the entire game, but this DM went in with what seemed like a very reasonable approach. Btw, I do like the Bippity character as described here. I also feel that something should have been seriously said early on, rather than just allowing Clovis to escalate. But it is clear from his subsequent actions that Clovis would have still been an @$$hat regardless of what he was told, and I have no issue with what happened to him. He was given every chance. This sounds like a pretty awesome group, I must say.

[@highspeedtacos1224]

Goblins are one of THE best races for rogues. What is Clovis on about

[@rommdan2716]

JUSTICE FOR THE SMALL!

[@billmarmot2069]

In defense of Problem Pally, 1) I could see a game advertising inter-party conflict as an invitation to PVP since classically that's what inter-party conflict is in D&D. He possibly thought the game was meant as a framework for approved lethal PVP. 2)As far as the orc-goblin thing, if he read any Tolkien, "Orc" and "Goblin" are used interchangeably. So that is an easy mistake to make. 3) Goblins can't dash as a bonus action- they can only hide and disengage, just like a Rogue, so that ability really is redundant.and the Problem Pally really wasn't wrong there. I still think he was wrong to try murdering a beloved party member, just trying to put things in perspective.

[@charminsi]

My guess for 3 is that the DM and the player agreed on the dash ability to make up for the redundancy Also for 1 understandable at first but I’m sure he had time to see how the party tension is actually handled during the time he was there. 2 doesn’t work because dnd is not Tolkien albeit inspired and the orcs and goblins are pretty different in dnd. It seemed rather contrived and should have been discussed with the DM beforehand.

[@2g33ksgamingttv3]

​@charminsi goblins can't dash as a bonus action but rogues can, which was what the player meant when they were justifying the redundancy. Also is race class redundancy suddenly such a broken thing? Oh no, I guess I better rip up my Warforged paladin character sheet since it's redundant with Warforged being immune to disease and paladins having the divine health ability. This paladin was just an ass and a bully Ripped straight from the Rogue on DNDBeyond Cunning Action Starting at 2nd level, your quick thinking and agility allow you to move and act quickly. You can take a bonus action on each of your turns in combat. This action can be used only to take the Dash, Disengage, or Hide action

[@charminsi]

@@2g33ksgamingttv3 thanks for the correction . Gotta review the rules again 😅 But yeah I don’t get what the problem is with redundancies between race and class features either.

[@dreadcircumference]

i want bippity to be my friend

[@Kudosute]

As a Paladin main, something in me dies when I seing one being this cringe.

[@CooperAATE]

Back for more Doge 1sts

[@janschievink1586]

How the crap are you supposed to lie about your back story whatever you tell the GM becomes true doesn't it???

[@K_i_t_t_y84]

Comment for the algorithm ❤

[@JacobL228]

This story seems kind of suspicious. I'm pretty sure some parts were embellished to paint the "problem player" in a worse light. He was bad, but he did have a point about the DM not actually allowing real PVP. He admitted to fudging and outright skipping checks to make sure the goblin won the fight he said he condoned. If he had things happen to the paladin, that would be one thing, but I never think it's a good idea to just give a character plot armor, even if another character's player did something crappy to them.

[@DFAnton]

He, unprovoked, tried to murder a fellow PC, and the only info we have on the PvP policy of this game is that "conflict" is allowed. With your stance, there is similarly nothing wrong with a character sneaking into another character's room in the middle of the night and slitting their throat, with the DM saying "Well, he rolled really high on stealth, so sucks to be you. Wouldn't want to give you plot armor. Roll up a new character." And when they explained the issue to the guy and basically gave him a second chance, he immediately mused about doing it *again.*

[@RenaDeles]

@@DFAnton I mean the very easy thing is to *talk above table* about any of this. Don't deal with out of game situations with in game solutions, DM failed to just say no instead of dancing around things until they came to a head. Clovis is the jerk here, but DM failed at their job to deal with things quickly.

[@DFAnton]

@@RenaDeles I agree. Did you mean to reply to the original comment, rather than me?

[@solosynapse]

It specifically stated that the rules mentioned "conflict that interferes with other players' fun" not being allowed. Also, " inter-party conflict" historically means any conflict, not just lethal PVP. (Unless I and everyone else I've met my roughly 30 years in D&D, even in Adventurer's League, were wrong?) I've heard it referring to bickering & infighting more than anything. Also, the DM fudging things to punish a problem player who's gone too far is hardly new... or unexpected. Especially when the problem player has openly stated that they intend to continue being a problem.

[@chriskimball4893]

I feel like Clovis doesn't understand that interpersonal conflict between characters does NOT extend to PVP. Two characters can argue and even have opposing viewpoints in a game, but still work together for one reason or another. Because things rarely, if ever, come to blows. And even when they do, it usually only results in a very small amount of damage and is, usually, dealt via non-lethal damage. Even monks, who typically deal lethal damage with their unarmed strikes, will still deal nonlethal in such situations. What I'm saying is that it's rare for interpersonal conflict in a party to escalate to the point of actually trying to kill each other. Because that isn't a rivalry. It's not interpersonal conflict. It's just straight up being enemies. And the moment one PC tries to kill another PC, it doesn't matter what you say; it's no longer a rivalry. You're enemies now. And enemies cannot, and will not, work together. You cannot work in the same party as someone that's actively trying to kill you. It doesn't work for party dynamics and it doesn't work in-game either. Why would these characters ever stay in the same group? It just doesn't make sense in any way. The moment Clovis moved to actually endanger and risked killing the goblin, he crossed the line. And when the shoe was on the other foot, with the party trying to kill him because he's proven to be a backstabber, he whines and cries. And when they finally tell him they'll let him stay only if he shapes up and immediately announces his intention of 'getting revenge', he just proved he's an idiot. He didn't want interpersonal conflict. He didn't want a rival. He didn't even want his own personal punching bag, as the OP thought he wanted. No, he wanted PVP. And, unfortunately for him, PVP is what he got; him versus the party. And I don't care how well you optimize a character in D&D; a single character can be as powerful as you want. But, the thing is, such a fight would still be a losing battle, because D&D is all about that action economy. And if the party is getting five turns to your one, you're losing. And he lost that fight. I'm just amazed the DM didn't call him out on what he was doing at any point. If you're playing a paladin and you attempt to murder someone for no reason, I'm sorry, but if you're playing a paladin for any good-aligned god, say goodbye to your paladin privilages. I know 5e is a lot more lenient about codes of conduct and the like, but if you get your powers from the gods and you're following any good-aligned god, I'm pretty sure pointless murder would piss any of them off, no matter what they're the god of. If I were his DM, he'd have forever lost his paladin powers, because him choosing willfully to murder someone, much less to kill her in such a cowardly way... there would be no penance. Nothing that paladin could do to get back into the favor of his god. I wouldn't even let him choose a new class, honestly. Because, in old school D&D, you would just lose all your paladin powers. You keep your martial proficiencies, but that's it. You basically become a Fighter who doesn't get bonus feats or class features. I won't let him change those paladin levels to something else. I'd let them remain a permanent stain on his character sheet to remind him that he's being punished, by the very god he used to serve, to be forever weaker for his transgressions. And his god's eye will always be on him; not to see him earn his favor again, but to remind him just how pissed off he is.

[@solosynapse]

I feel like Clovis doesn't understand that doing chaotic evil things while a paladin doesn't automatically make those things lawful good. Definitely a bully irl, and probably someone who isn't used to having consequences for his actions.

[@thejadondaviscommentaries1613]

Justice for Bippity