DnD vs 50 years of moral outrage

[@welovettrpgs]

Be sure it is understood. TTRPGs can be therapeutic but they are NOT therapy and if you are not a professional, licensed therapist you should not try to treat it as such. Doing so is irresponsible and potentially harmful. And yes, this is a reedit of an old video. Don't worry. Many new videos on the way for 2025! Thanks! EDIT: To learn more about past DnD scandals in the snarkiest way possible, please watch an older video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pZ3MqZKEmrCEhrc

[@Gomai]

@@welovettrpgs Take a look at the group Geek Therapeutics. They’re licensed mental health professionals, many of who. Use ttrpgs as a part of their practice.

[@swordsnstones]

Merry Christmas good sire. All the best for 2025

[@scott4092]

Good point. I have a friend who is a professional therapist and psychology teacher, and he uses D&D quite effectively as a tool sometimes.

[@MrCuttysark1982]

I never realized how lucky I was as a kid. I had a religious mother in the 80s and 90s but she was also really into sci Fi and fantasy. When I got into D&D she did read through my books, but she decided "this sounds exactly like LOTR, cool", and that was it. I didn't think anything of it at the time but now I look back and thank my lucky stars that this was something we shared rather than something she feared.

[@spectrelead]

@@MrCuttysark1982 Well, D&D and the minis game it came from (Chainmail) were nearly direct ripoffs of LotR in the original draft versions

[@jont3295]

Mom and Dad tried this crazy thing called, “Talking with your kids” (Pffft, I know, right?) Then they leafed through the DMG. Dad said it looked interesting (never did get him to play). Finally they decided, under no circumstances whatsoever would they pay for more than 2 pizzas and 2 bottles of Mountain Dew on game night.

[@stevecarter8810]

My dad, who worked at sea and saw me for two weeks each six months, called my mom concerned that I was getting into something no one could control. My mom, whose dining room hosted the games, saw me having social interactions, doing arithmetic and learning to handle conflict.

[@earthenkindquests]

In retrospect, one amusing part of the 1980s Satanic Panic = Many of those concerned parents were clueless about where their teenagers were or what they were doing.

[@davidschmelz8061]

My Mom picked up on this in the early 80s and readily agreed to host games for me and my brothers friends to play AD&D in our home because that way she at least knew where we were.

[@PatricRogers]

@earthenkindquests Right? As a teenager, watching the news one night with my mother, and the parents say "We never knew had all these books dice!" And my mother's very sarcastic "If you didn't know he had hundreds of dollars of books, then it wasn't the books that were the problem."

[@DolFan316]

Another amusing part is that these concerned parents were part of the so-called "Summer Of Love" and "Sexual Revolution" in THEIR youths, which did FAR more damage to the morality level of America causing the crime, divorce and drug usage rates to skyrocket. In other words, they had no business bheing the arbiters of morality to begin with.

[@repentantsinner7472]

When I was 11, I got my Mentzer Red Box Set. I was officially excused from doing book reports in front of class because I would hyperventilate when speaking in front of groups and the other kids would tease me. Today I am a public speaker and a trial attorney. I completely credit Dungeons and Dragons for giving me the ability to speak in front of people. Also, I would get teased for being the only Middle Eastern kid in my school. The Mystara Emirates of Ylarum setting, the Hickman Desert of Desolation series, and the 2nd Edition Al-Qadim setting made my culture interesting for my friends and I stopped getting bullied (most of the time), but it made a huge impression on my friends about how interesting other cultures could be so D&D (in my opinion) solved problems rather than created them and I do take offense to anyone that would criticize the older products on the grounds that they are insensitive, because they were exactly the opposite for me.

[@RichardChappell1]

Ah - Mystara. It was and is still my favorite game setting. My campaigns are all still set in Mystara. Ylarum motivated me to research the Middle East, and in particular Saudi Arabia. It paid off when I deployed to Riyadh with the military just a couple of years later.

[@grindcoreninja6527]

My mother is a nurse at an incredibly expensive mental health care facility; Over the past six or so years, she's actually helped to establish a table top program for the residents, and they absolutely love it. The facility has had residents ranging from orchestral musicians from China to mathematicians from the UK, and I would absolutely love to be a fly on the wall during one of their sessions; To give any more information than I already have would possibly put her retirement at risk, so I'll leave it at that. All of that aside, I hope you have an enjoyable Yule and holiday season brother. \m/

[@TakaD20]

After 40 years of satanic games, Satan has not contacted me once and the one demon I was able to summon isn't useful at all. So disappointing.

[@welovettrpgs]

Never give up!

[@KrugusRuneblade]

My mom bought the red box set from the Sears catalog back in 83! After about a few months my Dad wanted to know what all the fuss was about, so I walked him though rolling up a character and I ran a one on one game with him. He rolled up an Elf and fought some orcs. He even used a sleep spell on the orc reinforcements when they arrived. After the game, he was like that's it? He told me to have fun with my friends.

[@ToesToJesus]

Yeah, my mom took a look at my D&D books when the panic got rolling around 1984. She saw the front cover of the DM manual, with the Effriti grabbing the scantily robed princess and sat me down and had me explain what we did when we played. Once she understood that what we did was imagine we were big strong warriors, cunning thieves or Gandalf, instead of a bunch of nerds eating Cheetos, she relented.

[@warhorse03826]

1982 londonderry, NH made playing D&D a misdemeanor. I ran a gaming club at a high school one town over in derry, NH. we set up a tent in a public park, and played D&D. we basically dared the local cops to come get us. one cop showed up, stood there watching us for a few hours not saying a word. eventually he said "is this all the game is? what are these people worried about?" at the next town council meeting he backed us, and the law was removed. but for about a month, playing D&D was a misdemeanor crime with a penalty of fines and jailtime.

[@welovettrpgs]

Wow that's fascinating. I hope the person in the comments who claimed the panic was overblown misremembered and not real reads comments like yours.

[@Alche_mist]

Now, this is what people mean the phrase "good cop".

[@warhorse03826]

@@welovettrpgs and they had no idea what they were banning, so it could have been read to ban school plays, halloween, anything that involves pretending to be something you are not. instead of asking, researching, actually finding players and finding out what it was really like, they believed the hype and just banned it.

[@RichardChappell1]

@@welovettrpgs I think it really depends on your community. I grew up in a small AZ community that was very religious (Latter-Day Saints), and it didn't make much of a difference there. Of course, I was one of the few that had anything to do with it at that time. I had heard rumblings about some fuss over the games, but I learned about it mostly after the fact. Of course, there was no internet back then...

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Fantastic. I am mentioning your channel on my video airing next Monday. Merry Christmas.

[@welovettrpgs]

I love you my friend. You're the best and your support and compassion for the community is a real testament to your care and compassion. Thank you for all you do. (Also, I'm working on a follow up right now to clarify some misunderstandings.)

[@ecospirit_life]

and as a result here I am! Thanks for the recommendation.

[@mntineer6347]

My Mom was darned happy I was socializing with friends. But where I lived, they shut down the high school D&D club after two years (this was in 1982) , same school shut down a successful program using D&D to teach special ed students, and a cousin of mine was concerned about my eternal soul and pleaded with me to stop playing. Oh, those were the days.

[@LailokenScathach]

As the saying goes "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." - often people can mean well but it ends up having an opposite and negative impact instead. Great video and thank you for making it.

[@aaronabel4756]

Yeah, the panic was pretty bad where I lived. I had to hide my books, character sheets, dice, everything. I learned to live a parallel life and keep secrets.

[@Independentfellow]

@@aaronabel4756 that’s a life skill.

[@keithr9640]

Excellent video. During satanic panic my father asked me about it since I played the game. I showed him my books and explained a bit about the game and he thankfully was a reasonable human being and said carry on. Thinking back it’s not surprising he was so level headed. He was born in 1919 and had me late in life (1967). After living through the depression as a teen and fighting in world war 2 he had a keen sense of cutting through the noise getting to the facts of a matter.

[@Oddmanoutre]

By helping to boost math and reading comprehension, D&D showed progress exactly where schools did not. Naturally, this would not sit well with educators who saw it as both a bad reflection on their performance and a challenge to their position. By encouraging an interest in history, D&D made it more difficult for politicians to rely on tried-and-true tactics of fleecing an ignorant populace by keeping them distracted, disinterested, and disunited. Naturally, it was going to make powerful enemies. EDIT: Spielberg used D&D as part of the casting process? Maybe that explains why that waitress in Lake Geneva thought the TSR employees discussing ideas for 2nd Edition SpellJammer worked for him.

[@RetroDawn]

Excellent comment! Where was this story about the waitress reported? Seems pretty amusing.

[@bertellijustin6376]

Back then our educations systems hadn’t turned into propaganda outlets for the left. DND didn’t intimidate teachers becuase it made them look bad. It was almost entirely based in the Christian anti-magic crusade of the era. Had nothing to do with modern abysmal teaching standards. Can’t read or write? But you believe a boy can become a girl? A++

[@Oddmanoutre]

@@RetroDawn Jeff Grub related the story in the Foreword to Lorebook of the Void (the DM's booklet for the SpellJammer campaign setting.)

[@HidingSleeper]

The irony of a moral panic about a game all about beating the evil monsters and people isn't lost on many of us, I'm sure.

[@welovettrpgs]

I believe alignments helped the game survive the satanic panic by showing the concepts of good vs evil.

[@SageBlackthorn]

You might the book "Dangerous Games: What the Moral Panic over Role-Playing Games Says about Play, Religion, and Imagined Worlds" by Joseph P. Laycock. He goes over how religious extremists really felt threatened by Role-Playing Games, acted like they were a competing religion that would replace their own beliefs.

[@scott4092]

Indeed!

[@Chuck9852]

I had the same issue with doom as a kid. Stupid columbine kids made my teachers think i was an edge case. My teacher even had a conference with my dad. OVER DOOM!

[@meraduddcethin2812]

Thanks for the trip down memory lane. I recall when this was happening and it was no less bizarre then than it is hearing the re-telling for those who didn't experience it. Thank you again. May your holidays be warm, safe and happy.

[@trollsmyth]

I was lucky growing up in South Texas, below the Bible Belt and deep into the, um, Catholic Codpiece? Anyway, they were much more excited about Madonna. My 8th grade English teacher in an Episcopalian private school actually handed out pages she'd photocopied from the back of the DMG, from the section on character creation with all the random tables to develop an NPC's personality, as part of an exercise for creative writing.

[@PaulCoyJR]

Cool teachers are a blessing to us nerdy kids.

[@MarkHyde]

All I remember back in the 80s was defeating social isolation and anxiety as young teen and building a lifelong friendship group - we might not play together anymore but I still have strong contacts with several members of my former gaming group. Great video :) I don't think I would have my love of reading without TTRPGs as young person either. Fortunately, my parents were never religious like others.

[@Andre99328]

Can't remember DnD players ever accused of being satanists in Germany (at least we weren't). The worst thing was that the girls at school were not suposed to know that we were playing DnD, because it was considered so uncool in the 1980s.

[@welovettrpgs]

That is exactly right. The reason most didn't play D&D wasn't because of some obscure passage from a book they never read but because it was considered very geeky and uncool. Male D&D players weren't known for being good looking.

[@nosotrosloslobosestamosreg4115]

@@welovettrpgs Or didn't care for looks. Besides extroverts have the spotlight and are considered the golden ratio despite many of them having an IQ at room temperature. Intelligence is not sexy or understood.

[@hrs29]

D&D and TTRPGs really helped me become more social. I have a much busier life seeing people regularly outside of my house.

[@jeffersonhouse94]

My mom, who had no problem with my heavy metal, horror movies, Stephen King novels, comic books, or even an occasional grain beverage or herbal recreational cigarette, absolutely flipped out when I brought home the 1st edition AD&D books. "There's a DEMON on the COVER, Jeff!" "Yeah, Mom. That's what we're FIGHTING!"

[@markskarr2257]

I was fortunate, in the '80s, I wasn't playing D&D, I was playing BattleTech, Star Trek and Star Frontiers. But, I was also fortunate in that, when the issue arose, my mother took our books, read them, then gave them back with no issues.

[@JohnHall-po6ts]

I lived through the Satanic Panic too. Thank goodness my mom lacked the temperament of those swept up in it. I'm one of those classic cases of D&D being a refuge from abuse and bullying. While I don't have an official diagnosis, C-PTSD checks way too many boxes for me for it to not be a factor. Existing in those worlds with those creatures and conflicts, and with a simplified world that was much easier to tell good from bad, probably saved my life. I know it improved my reading comprehension, my problem solving, and my match skills. It also awakened in me a love for philosophy, ethics, and morality that are still with me today. I'm grateful for D&D and the positive effects it had on my life.

[@welovettrpgs]

Thank you for sharing your story!

[@The7thSid]

It's a cliché, but a true one: D&D saved my life and made me the person I am today. It got me through a rough childhood and young adulthood; gave me a ton of tools for success during my time in the military (as well as a couple great campaigns while I was in); and ended up helping me land my dream job. I'm now happily retired and have a wonderful dedicated friend/RPG group. I'm at least grateful that my mom, despite her tendency toward moral panic, saw D&D as little more than me reading books and having fun with friends.

[@Zr0din]

@0:30 second in, I love everything in this shot! The map, the Books, the angled book shelf, the rarely used City of Cats... Ok, let's watch the rest of the video... Ahhh - the Satinic Panic. Among my group, I (meaning- my books) was the victim. The other parents in the group were a little more chill.

[@aliciaantoniadis9100]

Absolutely fantastic! My experiences growing up are similar to yours, so with all of my heart, I thank you Aten! Sincerely, Alicia from Sweden.

[@MattAT95]

My mom asked me if I was being taught devil worship, I said no and that my characters fought them. That ended it.

[@MarkAhlquist]

Reading the d&d books as a child must've at least tripled my vocabulary.

[@dantherpghero2885]

One guy I know had to hide his dice bag in his sock drawer for years. His christian parents would not let him D&D with us. But he was allowed to play Star Wars (WEG D6) and TMNT (Palladium) with us.

[@welovettrpgs]

"Is that D&D you're hiding?" "No, mom, it's porn." "Oh, ok."

[@nosotrosloslobosestamosreg4115]

@@welovettrpgs Somehow my experience XD

[@isaace8090]

I did the same thing. The D&D books were at a friends house and everything else was fair game. I ran or played in Cyberpunk 2020, Mekton Zeta, Rifts, Robotech/Macross, Castle Falkenstein, and the board game Hero Quest. Which we would play with my cousins at the dinner table with a lot of the same stuff you find in D&D, but it was Hero quest and there were no issues with it. To this day I have never told my mom I play or played D&D. It's quite hilarious.

[@warhorse03826]

one kid in our group told his mom we were playing Tunnels and Trolls, a competitor of D&D, and his parents were fine with it. so long as it wasn't D&D!

[@nosotrosloslobosestamosreg4115]

@@warhorse03826 "My son is using hexadenochromotamycocine-6-cyanihydrnitrosulfur, at least it's not weed".

[@slaapliedje]

It is a little known fact that Spielberg was a hardcore DM, the type that hated his players. This is why, when asked if the Atari 2600 E.T. game was good, he said, 'yeah, it is fine. Ship it.'

[@KimKhan]

Thankfully in my place and time (Sweden, 1990's/00's) when I was getting into the hobby, there was very little negativity associated with the hobby. I found it a great source of imaginative fun, and I am absolutely convinced doing my own translations of domestic Swedish games for when I was living abroad gave me an eye for interpreting complicated texts. An older friend of mine however had one negative experience, and that was at the time when local parishes often had hobby locales they would loan to youths for social activities, but his TTRPG group suddenly "could not get any slots". It was a time and place when games like Kult was getting popular however, so, y'know. He reacted with drawing an upside down cross with a red marker on the bathroom mirror that last night. He was 15, so I think he handled it pretty well.

[@Nikotheos]

I'm a 51 year old who started D&D with the red box when I was 10 (1983, roughly). I also was gifted CPTSD from my childhood, and had my books burned. What joyous memories! Thanks for talking about it and letting people know what went on. Note that this was in Southern California, not somewhere in the Bible Belt, as I've heard people suppose.

[@yourseatatthetable]

I have never forgotten watching my mother, filled with fear and anger spurred on by some dude on TV, burning my original AD&D books. A few days later my grandfather, a fire and brimstone preacher himself, showed up to chastise my mom for doing what she did. Said I was a good kid, not some tool of the Devil or something. Mom felt bad enough to give me $100 and drive me to the book store. I still have those replacement 1st edition but they'd changed the covers.

[@miscprojects9662]

Crazy, I remember those times but my experience was the opposite. My mom would take me to Toys R Us so I could buy AD&D books and lead figures with my allowance.

[@scottturner3831]

My friend knew a guy named Robbie, who looked exactly like Tom Hanks, that totally lost his mind when his character died in a game.

[@welovettrpgs]

dang!

[@RobbieIsntAmerican]

Dude! Feels like you only crack the surface in this video. Would love to see it expanded.

[@welovettrpgs]

More info here from this previous video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pZ3MqZKEmrCEhrc

[@Hacker-at-Large]

I've known a small number of people negatively affected by D&D in that it became an obsession to the detriment of their studies. The same can be said for video games and probably other "diversions." For my friends and I, it was literally the only form of entertainment we could easily afford on a fairly isolated college campus. A group with almost nothing else in common would game and joke through an evening in lieu of spending our money on a movie. Honestly, those evenings are some of my fondest memories.

[@scottschreck88]

As an 80's teen, I was fortunate to have parents who were more concerned that I had friends and wasn't getting into trouble. If they had concerns about my friends and I playing TTRPG's they never mentioned it. It certainly didn't save us from the bullying though. Still playing with some of the same people all these years later, and still loving it.

[@sleepinggiant4062]

My religious mother asked me in the 80s, "you know it's just a game, right?" "Yep" and that was the end of it.

[@dnd-and-philosophy]

Aten, this is a solid video. I love the message you're sending and more people need to hear the truth about D&D. I was introduced to D&D by my cousin Joann when I was about 10 years old. It's been with me ever since and has made we smarter, wiser, and more confident. It sparked my desire to read, made me better at math, and provided a creative outlet to focus my energy and attention. I learned new words that didn't appear in other books, or spoken in anyone else's vocabulary. Because I learned these new words by reading, I would often mispronounce them. Words like Paladin, Melee, and Portcullis. There's a saying that goes: "Don't make fun of someone that mispronounces words. It means they learned it from reading." D&D and other RPGs brought me closer to my friends and allowed me to meet others with diverse backgrounds and interests. D&D is a life-changer and should be played at least once by everyone to see what it's all about. Thanks for the great video and content.

[@welovettrpgs]

I love the "Don't make fun of someone that mispronounces words. It means they learned it from reading." quote and use it often.

[@danielpasilis4046]

Way back in the old days I made the maitake of leaving ALL of my D&D books at a friends house her mom's overzealous boyfriend burned them all to dust in a woodstove so I'm right there with you on all of this.

[@welovettrpgs]

That's far worse than the neighbor's dog eating the head off my Darth Vader action figure.

[@danielpasilis4046]

@@welovettrpgs Yeah that's the thing...a dog is a dog and is going to do dog stuff, but a nut with a cause is capable of anything

[@sebastienbelanger8918]

Being a french canadian from Québec, TTRPG (and video games RPG) had a huge benefit for me. I became bilingual by the age of 14. French translated content was more expensive, often not every product were available and D&D novels translations were so bad. I worked hard, but it paid off. 😊

[@mithraisaugustus6421]

To think what Mortisha Addams meant when she said her desire was to "seek out the dark forces and join their hellish crusade" was simply to play D&D.

[@7thsealord888]

In Australia, we got a severely watered-down version of the Anti-D&D Satanic Panic. I know of a couple of groups here that had venue doors literally slammed shut in their faces, and I also knew someone who had their D&D stuff burned by idiot parents. Our local franchise of '60 Minutes' did an utterly disgraceful hatchet-job of the game, involving a sometime player who went on to cross-dress in order to commit murder. There was also a highly publicized instance of a school principal somewhere banning the game in their school, and a certain politician who took a few shots in between railing against immorality. In general, though, we did OK. Groups openly met and did well. Game shops all remained open, with D&D stuff staying on shelves and, aside from an occasional idiot, there were no problems there. I think the reaction of most Aussies, upon meeting an enthusiast who explained things to them, was to let gamers be - we have never had the religious fervor of the USA. (The old joke here is, "Britain sent its religious fanatics to America, and its criminals to Australia, and Australia got the better half of that deal." ;) ) It's a nice irony that, a long-standing group I am part of was church-founded (Anglican) and met in the local church hall. I would also comment that, as regards concerns about "obsession", the people making those claims never seem to dwell on, say, religious fervor, or obsessions with sports or certain sports teams. Finally, I'm also someone who benefitted greatly from TTRPGs - there were aspects of my childhood I won't go into. But finding the hobby was a major and positive effect on me - and my parents never had issue with it.

[@scott4092]

Fascinating, I didn't know Spielberg used D&D as an audition exercise. Speaking for myself, my parents didn't worry too much about D&D. My dad thought it was silly that we were playing faerie tales well into our teens, and my mom was interested and played a few games. Anyone outside my family and friends who tried to preach against D&D to me were ignored. Now whenever I visit my niece and nephew and sister, D&D is always a priority during our visits (and they all play in the same world that I run for my other groups)!

[@tomyoung9834]

I remember in the 80s, learning to play DnD taught me how to cast magic missile, which then lead me to learning all of the spells, which is why I now fireball everyone who annoys me! What a great gateway into the occult!

[@NerdyLiches]

Commenting so the Evil Algorithmic Overlords push your content.

[@welovettrpgs]

Thank You!

[@PaulCoyJR]

"I, for one, welcome our new Algorithmic Overlords." -- Kent Brockman

[@steved1135]

wow Bravo to you for all you said. As an 'old' guy in his 50's who started playing in the 80's, I have to admit I've been concerned and frustrated by the disrespectful, ignorant and maligning voices of what seems to be a new subsection of RPG fans. It's odd and off-putting to see revisionist history spins and gross misinterpretations being put forward for what seems to be no reason whatsoever. My introduction to D&D was at the direction of my Catholic grade school principal (!!!). A small group of seven of us were offered the opportunity. A more wide-ranging selection of students could not have been made; we ran the (then ) gamut of ethnicity, backgrounds, gender, abilities and interests. We collectively reveled in the game and, for me at least, it changed my life. Nearly 10 years after that I happened upon the opportunity to ask that principal why she had done that, and specifically why she had chosen me to be included. She said she chose me because she could tell I wasn't being challenged enough by the normal school curriculum, and other students were chosen for the same reason, but yet others were chosen because they were having great difficulty in their normal school studies. She said we came together as a team and helped each other each get better at learning. She wasn't wrong. A segment of the 'community' now are infecting the spirit of the game by misunderstanding its power. A sad state.

[@georgelaiacona111]

Excellent. Well done. Liked and Subscribed. Kids have been playing RPGs long before D&D. We played Cops and Robbers and Cowboys and Indians riding our bikes around the subdivision, but somehow moving this activity from the streets and neighborhoods to a table with pencil, paper, and dice made it an influence of the Devil. Largely due to the art of the books, I'm sure. I was there, though only suffered minimal impact from the Satanic Panic. You draw an accurate parallel to modern gaming. Again, well done. Thanks for this.

[@TalesFromElsewhereGames]

I've been so fortunate to have had a welcoming experience into the TTRPG community over 20 years ago. I've tried to foster that welcoming attitude when I encounter the "new" generation of players, as well! What a wonderful escape the hobby can provide! 🤠

[@welovettrpgs]

Thats a great attitude and something I wish I had articulated in that video (I have in others). I know what its like to be bullied and I have zero patience for others doing that. (In my anti-bullying video I discuss it.)

[@Umbralimage]

I lived through those times. I had to learn about my own obsessive nature. I had memorized almost everything you needed to know to run a game without the books. I got rid of my first set of AD&D Books. After a few years, I got new ones. I Had a better idea about my own charcter and moved on. Now, looking back. I am grateful that this happened with D&D instead of drugs. I could have messed up my enire life. Instead, I've made a ton of new acquaintances and good friends. Everyone gets to play.

[@ThatGuy-lt8ut]

I wasn't playing TTRPGs in the 80's (closest I got was the original Final Fantasy on the NES) but I got into it in the late 90's. I guess my mom had heard all of the idiocy surrounding the hobby in the 80's and asked me about it at one point. So I explained what was going on there and I think I showed her one of the pages in the book with spells in it, pointing out the technical bits for the game. She was happy to see what it actually was instead of what panicky people jumped into thinking it was

[@douglasphillips5870]

My experience with D&D has taught me to be more tolerant. When I come across some new group that I don't understand I just say "who am I to judge, I'm a gamer nerd"

[@christianreyes5912]

I loved through the satanic panic. I’m still waiting for infernal powers!!! Where are my powers???

[@welovettrpgs]

Maybe they're delivery time is slow? I'm still waiting as well.

[@PaulCoyJR]

They are probably going to show up when our flying cars do.

[@LordZeebee]

It's not a moral outrage(well... maybe on twitter it is, that place is a cesspool. But like, in the real world with real people), it's just striving for a more complete understanding of the history of our hobby. There are 100% some questionable elements of early dnd. Just to name a less-cited example, in the "types of men" section there's a description of Derishes as "fanatically religious Nomads who fight as Berserkers, never checking morale[...]". Thing is, a Dervish is just a member of a distinct sect of Islam. They're normal people who exist today. They pay their taxes, they walk their dogs, they post on facebook. To describe real people alive today as blood-frenzied fanatics who will stop at nothing to kill you IS morally wrong and does say something about the authors of those early editions. At the very least that they weren't infallable geniuses. Our discussions of ODnD shouldn't just ignore that aspect of the game. Doing so would be historical revisionism, censorship. We can still appreciate the work they did to create the hobby we love today, much like we can still appreciate old movies that were pivotal to that art form but contain some not-to-great elements as well. Aknowledging the bad, talking about it, and learning from it is necessary for a more complete understanding of our history.

[@welovettrpgs]

Hi, thanks for commenting. As I commented elsewhere, what started for both groups as legitimate concerns has turned into moral outrage. I'm going to sound snarky and I apologize in advance. And I'm sure this will fall on deaf ears but I need to at least try. My snarkyness is because I am exhausted by people on both extremes just repeating stuff they read on line without thinking deeper. And you sound very sure of yourself, I do not doubt you truly care about the feelings of marginalized groups. However, respectfully, it sounds a lot like you have copy and pasted your beliefs from the intro of the 50th anniversary book (or that online thread which says pretty much exactly what you're repeating.) Since history sounds important to you, I suggest reading some. For example, D&D was based on historical wargaming. If you read a few history books you'll soon discover that history is filled with racism and sexism. At no point in time was D&D ever promoting racism and sexism. (You'd need to read the bible for that) D&D offered those themes as historical facts and evil to be overcome. It's a game about defeating evil. By your logic every history book that includes racism and sexism is racist and sexist. When Southern states want to remove slavery from their history books we rightfully recognize that as racist. But when D&D - a game about defeating evil - wants to do it, well, that's somehow not erasing those horrors from history, that's "the good kind of book burning." The natural progression of what you are promoting is a game where evil doesn't exist at all. There are no bad things that have ever happened. Remove all weapons and replace them with soft cushions. I'll just end with this: Empathy is vital. Looking outside of ourselves is vital. And that also means white people need to stop telling black people how they should feel about stuff. Because that mentality seems pretty darn racist. Thanks. I hope you're doing well.

[@rickc-arelsii6276]

I started playing in '81. My mother bought the game for me. No Satanic Panic in my household, thankfully.

[@Deatheater4444]

The irony, of course, being that Gary Gygax was a moderate conservative Christian a coin flip (or dice roll, if you will) from being an endearingly embarrassing youth minister.

[@kericmason]

My friend also had his stuff burned due to the panic, and his parents were into that "speaking in tongues" brand of Christianity... So a grip on reality was more or less optional for them. There were also those idiots who claimed D&D made them kill a guys parents in hopes it would get them off/a more lenient sentence. That helped like a hole in a head when trying to calm people down. The BADD founder thought it was much more reasonable that a game of imagination with friends would make her son end his life rather than being gay and having homophobic parents, go figure. Cheers to all of our LGBTQ friends who found community with us back in those dark days.

[@keithrawson3167]

I was a bit of an introvert in high school (late 70s to early 80s). I enjoyed playing D&D and formed our schools first ever D&D club, which took a bit of arguing and convincing the school administration to allow it. Between this and writing my Advanced Comp Research paper on witch craft (yeah I sided with the accused) my fellow classmates dubbed me a Satanic Devil Worshiper and someone claimed my eyes could turn red (turns out it was some fluke effect while I was in the photo-lab darkroom. I would just laugh it off but it did cause some strife with a long term girl friend and her family.

[@welovettrpgs]

It is far better to side with the witches.

[@wh4teley]

I wish someone claimed my eyes turned red high school. That would have been pretty bad ass.

[@PaulCoyJR]

You could have said, "If I was a Satan worshipping witch, then why don't I have straight A's? Why aren't I a millionaire? Why aren't I the captain of the football team?"

[@dr.mortose163]

Great video. I played D&D (and other TTRPGs) back in the days of Satanic Panic, I've continued to play my entire life, and taught my children how to play. Someday I hope to teach grandchildren how to play.

[@SpiritWolf1966]

I remember the satanic panic I spent hours explaining and showing my mother of what fearful individuals were really complaining about the monsters from the deities and demigods and the monsters manuals and after her watching my younger brother play a few rounds and explaining fantasy tropes as long as we didn’t take it to a couple of family homes we were good to go

[@SpiritWolf1966]

Merry Christmas and happy new year everyone 🎉🎉🎉

[@Awakeandalive1]

My mom preferred me playing D&D to World of Darkness -- in part because she felt D&D was more open to cosmological creativity while the cosmology of the World of Darkness was pre-established and somewhat set in stone...

[@welovettrpgs]

In the 90s I was not interested in VtM et al because it seemed cheesy (manson and Hot topic made goth super cheesy) but I've recently discovered an appreciation for the possibilities with World of Darkness, so long as I stay away from cheesy tropes.

[@grendel123]

I distinctly remember the Satanic Panic outrage from when I was just getting involved in gaming/RPGs back in the late 1970's/early 1980's. We had to basically play in secret because our parents would get all up in arms about it. I distinctly remember wanting to buy the Dragonriders of Pern board game (bonus points if you remember that game) at our local Waldenbooks (additional bonus points if you remember that store...) and my sister absolutely losing her mind and screaming it was devil worship at the top of her lungs in the store. Good times.

[@welovettrpgs]

I remember both!!! :) We're old.

[@grendel123]

@@welovettrpgs I prefer to think of it as achieving XP...

[@PaulCoyJR]

I still have my Waldenbooks discount card for sci-fi and fantasy purchases somewhere in my apartment.

[@robertdennis8933]

My introduction into the Satanic Panic was in 1981 when I was sat down by my friend's parents (concerned Christian church goers) and asked to explain the game and it's demons/devil/magic element. My 14 year old self explained the fact that the game was mostly problem solving in a group setting and that the demons/devils were not allies but enemies (mostly true on that end) however the mother was severely concerned with the magic element with spells and that it could bring evil spirits into their home. I remember looking at her with a stoic look and saying "You do realize that magic isn't real, right?" ending my line with a look of serious worry. That pretty much ended any issue with playing D&D at their house.

[@alexandredesrochers1957]

well said. Thank you for publishing this video. It is important to point out the benefits and expose the moral bias expressed by zealots.

[@artaweunderhill4480]

vids like this deserve a like & comment to push the YT-algorithm to do its thing.

[@welovettrpgs]

Thank You!

[@sayntfuu]

I played AD&D in 82. My books were also burned along with my Dio tapes.

[@Sean_but_Not_Heard]

I feel extremely lucky to be able to play TTRPGs (Pathfinder 2e in this case) WITH my parents. It has been fantastic for my whole family dynamic.

[@DjDreamcastle]

I grew up in a Christian household where the effect of the Satanic panic was very relevant. It was rolled into a larger moral panic over music, movies, video games, card games, and books. My mom saw me and my brother gravitating toward these things she was concerned with, and realized over time that they didn't turn us into evil, violent, or weird children, but we still received criticism from our larger community. The current moral panic we see in the role play space is a direct reflection of that same phenomena, and it too will go away, so keep playing your elf games the way you like to, and it will be fine.

[@gracekinsley3142]

Thank you again for an amazing video, you are once again, my favourite creator talking about RPGs

[@welovettrpgs]

You're too kind. Thank You! Look for my special New Years Resolution video this weekend!

[@alca6023]

My brother and sister were huge into DnD during the satanic panic. I was deemed at "too little" but got to watch them play. We came home from school to find out that our Mom had burned all "satanic" items. Books, board games, and DnD. It wasn't my stuff. The interesting part about all of this was that my parents were the ones with a warped sense of reality. We knew that it was fake. They didn't. I don't even remember which DnD products that she destroyed. Just that I learned the most valuable of life's lessons- never trust your belongings to crazy people. And that my Mom is cruel and can't be trusted. I went to live with my Dad as they were divorced. Then later went no contact with both of them. All "moral" panic does is show the world who the cruel people are. I eventually turned atheist and went no contact with my parents. Religious zealots are very cruel. It's a good thing to add to games so that we never forget these patterns.

[@nosotrosloslobosestamosreg4115]

Never forget TTRPGs are our fairy Tales and Hero's Journey.

[@ParkerKent-r7z]

I lived in and played through out that time, and it was a time where people were still trying to figure out the game. My friends that I ran games for were all toxic, and everything they did would be bannable by today's standards. I ran games with them for 7 years, and I can tell you if you want to learn to be a really good DM, playing with toxic people who want to all do their own thing and destroy each other, is the fast track to becoming great. Its easy to play for a bunch of players who all get along and are cooperating, there is very little you are going to learn from them to help you become a good DM.

[@StevenPD]

I played DnD back in the 80's and agree with the points made throughout the video. It's been some 30ys since I last played DnD, and wouldn't chya know it, the local library is having a DnD night next month. It'll be interesting to roll the dice again and see if DnD is something I want to get back into. Cheers!

[@welovettrpgs]

5E would be great if it didnt have death saves and long/short rest mechanics. Those turn it into superhero dnd with unkillable characters. So I dont use those rules.

[@anarchist_rationale]

Great video. I think D&D probably saved me from a wasted life by energizing me to create worlds for the adventures to take place in, which opened me up to geography, sociology and political systems in a way that school never could.

[@praxistallyogarro]

Oh Man Aten I love that 0:21 Wilhelm Scream. Love the Redux too.

[@Phhhht]

Wow you've struck a chord here. I was playing AD&D in the early 80s at the height of the satanic panic and my mom was hearing what you're talking about on the news. I didn't know until many years later she actually had some concerns. However being the intelligent woman she is she thought to herself but those are his most intelligent and well adjusted friends and thankfully blew it off. For context one of those friends was an inventor for the Byrd corporation who make medical equipment. His enprovment on a human incubator was prevalent in the US for 20 years. Yes a bright group. Thanks mom for not blowing that up

[@antigrav6004]

As someone who had a parent who believed it was evil and kept me from it till i was in my late teens, and then when i tried it on my own i found it was one of my top hobbies and i have several projects in the works for the last decade i want to publish. When my dad found out he was concerned at first, but stranger things actually showed him it wasn't really anything to worry about and you get what you put in. Could you do an evil campaign? Sure, but it's not normally the case.

[@RIVERSRPGChannel]

Yes TTRPGs help people in many ways. Personally I have friends that I’ve made through the games for more than 30 years. Good video

[@tunin6844]

After discovering The Palladium Role-Playing Game in the early '90s, I had a good laugh about the panic over D&D. Good thing they didn't know about the Witch occupation in the Palladium game where the character gained power through a pact with a demonic or devilish power, possibly including a familiar that would suck the character's blood for sustenance.

[@seanmurphy7011]

The Satanic Panic was so overblown. It was nowhere near as bad as people remember it as evidenced by the games continually growing popularity into the 1990s.

[@welovettrpgs]

Sort of like saying racism doesnt exist because it never effected you.

[@notsobright7482]

I really do love your videos and how you maintain a consistent but ultimately neutral view of the hobby. You're more matter of fact on many things and I love the simple set up! It really does feel like a properly small channel that deserves more love in the space!

[@welovettrpgs]

Thanks, that's really kind of you!

[@BlackJar72]

It became part of my culture shock when moving across the country (though not for the first time). When I started playing D&D in middle school, in mid-1980s New Mexico I don't remember any stigma, it at seemed to be going through cool fad phase. When I moved to Tennessee, just in time to start high school, it was shocking how many people ended up thinking I worshiped Satan. Before that, my only real exposure to that view was from a religious right TV "documentary" which I watched out of a mix of morbid curiosity and ridicule and which basically claimed all secular toys, games, shows were secretly Satanic.

[@shallendor]

The Satanic Panic made was the best thing to happen to D&D, it got the name out and made kids interested! I was already addicted to reading, with an overactive imagination, TTRPG's are just an extension of that!

[@welovettrpgs]

They made bank, that's true but then after Gary got pushed out of TSR they caved in to the panic removing demons and devils.

[@shallendor]

@@welovettrpgs It was a sad day when Gary was pushed out of the company! : (

[@artistpoet5253]

I learned to play Dungeons & Dragons in a Catholic private school courtesy a classmate. However within a month or so of that he stopped wanting to play because his parents told him that it wasn't a Christian game. So I gathered a few others to play and that was that. The faculty never had a problem except when my players and I would pass notes during class about the game.

[@andersand6576]

Got into rpgs via my cousins a few years older than me. My parents knew if it was dangerous they would not hvae been allowed to play, so it was fine for them. When they found out was it really was they encouraged me to play, as it helped me, having a slight Asbergers, becomming far more social. The closest thing I have seen to burned books, is the father of one of the guys taking away the books until he had skimmed them to see it was nothing dangerous. While the son lost interest after a few years, the father got so hooked he still plays decades later. Atleast I spoke to him at a con a few years ago.

[@nabra97]

I'm intentionally staying pretty vague here (for a couple of reasons), but there was a moment in my life when a D&D game helped me realise that I was still alive and my life wasn't over, after I (not unexpectedly, but still very suddenly) found myself in a pretty dangerous situation (of an external origin) that I could only do so much about. For some reason, I was sure that if these events happened, I would loose connection with everyone or almost everyone in my life (in hindsight, it wasn't really justified, but everything was extremely uncertain at the moment), and realising that it wasn't the case meant the world of me. It wasn't really that much about the game (we mostly were just talking that day anyway), but that campaign was how I found these people in the first place. To clarify, it actually has nothing to do with the satanic panic (wrong continent, and I wasn't even born at that time), more about the D&D and mental health part

[@welovettrpgs]

Thanks. I have a couple mental health focused videos on the channel. Thanks for your great feedback. Best wishes.

[@robblumenberg5965]

there was a moral panic with the Mahabharata tabletop role playing game back in ancient I when people confused it with gambling

[@KAM1138a]

I made the same observation about the attacks coming from within in an article I wrote a while back. That point alone tells people what this is all about out.

[@RavenHouseMystery]

Thanks for the information. I had just discovered AD&D in high school when the film E.T. came out. It was really cool to see the game in an actual film, unlike the Mazes & Monsters film where that gameplay was a total farce. My parents didn't approve though and sited the Tom Hanks film as backup. I just wish I knew that Steven Spielberg was a fan and using D&D in the casting process at the time.

[@tj1993rx7]

I started playing in 86 in high school and had my parents and my friends parents from our church show hesitation. I, in my infinite high school wisdom :) quelled it with…trust that you raised us well and that we have a solid foundation so the shouldn’t worry…plus my last line was…you only need to worry if we start sacrificing goats….they laughed and we’ve been playing RPGs ever since!

[@shampoovta]

My Dad was my first DM. He was great at understanding the game but not at avoiding a fist time TPK. 🤣 After that my little brother was my DM until high school. Dad was a model train and plane guys and D&D started at these shops. It was something your kids could paint. There was also a lead figure shop called The Last Grenadier that sold historical figures like French solders and WWI and II. So the D&D stuff was for the kid the model stuff was for Dad.

[@welovettrpgs]

Love it!!

[@knowflyzone]

Played DnD since pretty much its begining and never dealt with any satanic panic issues, even living in a pretty strong bible belt area. So while I know it happened, it just never was my actual experience growing up. Nowdays, my biggest issue is trying to learn VTTs so I can get some gaming going with family spread across the US. Glad to see more new(old) vids, and can't wait for more.

[@welovettrpgs]

You're very lucky it didn't hinder you. I've been using Fantasy Grounds for three years and if it wsn't for my player's Id still be unable to use it. But thats my shortcoming not it. They are however in the midst of a major overhaul and it keeps improving all the time. It's great because it's so versatile but more options means more complexity.

[@udasu]

My grandma bought my Fiend Folio back in the day. Despite the SP hype, she understood that hanging out with your friends on the weekend was a normal thing. Rosemary’s Baby (1968), The Exorcist (1973), and The Omen (1976) already had those outrage groups in motion.

[@welovettrpgs]

It really began with protests to the Vietnam War as that represented the "Liberal Uprising" and then yes those films - but the Exorcist had a profound impact on the change of direction in our culture. There's a great documentary about it and how much it effected people at the time (for example it is the reason why many people still to this day think Ouija Boards are evil.)

[@johnhans2929]

I remember reading about D&D in "Boy's Life" (scouting) magazine in the 70's, and I didn't really understand what they were talking about. Later, I heard about the panic. My Mom and grandmother were very much against anything that might, possibly, maybe, cause me to go insane and kill myself. When I got to high school - a Catholic school, by the way - they had a gaming club where D&D was played by many of the people. I started playing and later had to promise Mom and Grandma I wasn't going to unalive myself. I taught a number of people to play the game. The mother of a couple of the people took issue with this, and I had to explain to her in excruciating detail how the game was played and what we did. No, ma'am, there isn't a book of spells. Here's a list, we just say we cast them, but there's no instructions because we don't do that. She finally, sort-of, understood, then wandered off into a rant about some stuff she'd heard on the radio about witches or something.

[@Geraint3000]

Hi Aten. I too have experienced inhibited people come alive over time through collaboration, empowerment and bringing out their innate skills and intelligence to perform brilliant critical thinking in response to incredibly difficult problems. I'm also glad that the UK where I live is predominantly a secular society, unlike many parts of the US where gun ownership and belief in the supernatural are still a thing.

[@welovettrpgs]

Look for my upcoming "Confessions of a professional ghost hunter" video in the near future.

[@Geraint3000]

@@welovettrpgs by supernatural I was referring (flippantly) to Christianity.

[@PaulCoyJR]

As an American, I can attest that many of my countrymen prefer to worship guns, as they seem reluctant to actually read what Jesus said. You know, feed the hungry, help the needy, give money to the poor, those kinds of things.

[@Robocopster]

I didn’t just lose touch with reality. I ran from reality!

[@wh4teley]

I also live with C-PTSD. RPGs, fantasy media, and horror were refuges for me in those moments in my youth where the psychological weight of my situation became difficult to bear. There was an element of escapism, to be sure, but I also discovered a creative impulse that led me to writing, music, visual arts, and even coding all of which in turn helped me come to terms with my trauma in their own ways. Intense therapy didn't hurt, either. The Satanic Panic was at it's tail-end when I found TTRPGS . I never truly experienced the sort of extreme reactions your friend received from his mother. The closest I got was my elementary school banning Magic the Gathering allegedly due to concerns about gambling. The reality was a mother of a Jehovah's Witness family threatened to sue the district if it wasn't banned due to her belief that it promoted occultism and Satanism which violated the church-state separation clause. The policy stuck for about a year until the administration realized no judge was going to rule against them for allowing a card game about dueling wizards summoning flying hippos and sea serpents on school grounds. I do have to add that I enjoy the releases from indie developers who embrace the witchy black metal aesthetic to purposefully to make their games resemble the Satanic grimoires that existed in all those fundamentalist charlatans fever dreams.

[@welovettrpgs]

Thanks for sharing your story! Ill upload a video about cPTSD in the future.

[@defnlife1683]

Imagine my infinite disappointment when the AD&D DM's guide did not, in effect, conjure up demons using foul eldritch incantations. It did, however, require the use of a mighty codex to decipher the elder knowledge, some whisper it's name as the Thesaurus!

[@welovettrpgs]

Total let down! :)

[@PaulCoyJR]

The dreaded Thesaurus! It's almost as dangerous as the terrible Gazebo!

[@welovettrpgs]

@@PaulCoyJR I will forever fear Gazebo Boy from the back of Dragon Magazine! (Superhero with the worst power)

[@defnlife1683]

@@PaulCoyJR oh wow what an awesome reference, I had forgot about that!