Do 50 Tempests counter 40 Battlecruisers? (Daily StarCraft Brawl)

[@NicD]

Perfect Stalker micro is art.

[@johnmorrell3187]

Not really perfect, they blink back perfectly but because the front rank was always attacking at full range for most of the battle only 2/3 or less of stalkers were fighting.

[@NicD]

You're right: the stalkers should have moved closer so that they're all firing. Like the void rays are!

[@mushroomwine8294]

and they r doing full range blink too

[@flynnrider4354]

Nope it’s not. They blink too far and lose DPS in the process

[@krioni86sa]

it is also a science

[@MrGeorgeFlorcus]

God, Oracles do infinity damage against like units, I knew instantly those marines didn't stand a chance

[@Tya.]

Turned healthbars back on. And it's also the first time I've used the Oracle!

[@pynkmenlanglytan8292]

As Lowko famously says "More stuff beats less stuff. " Except for the Oracle 🤷‍♀️😅

[@isaackvasager9957]

That's Winter's line actually. Lowko copies that.

[@Skorpion1991]

except what? 75 oracle = 225 supply + 22,5k resources vs 200 marines = 200 supply +10k resources. So tell me again which units was more? Do you ever math dude? that moron made a crazy senseless test with that oracles it should be max 66 oracles to be eqal on limits, and they are still twice in resources cost so it would be still unfair

[@bluenicholasbf2142]

@@Skorpion1991 what's your point? It's for entertainment, not meant to show a realistic scenario that would happen in game.

[@thalanoth]

@@bluenicholasbf2142 except for the part where it's not nearly as enteraining. who would want to watch 1,000,000 oracles vs 200 marines? the outcome was obvious, therefore not entertaining.

[@bluenicholasbf2142]

@@thalanoth in most of his battles there are few survivors remaining, my guess is that he tests it out first to see how many survivors there are on either side, then tries to balance it out a little so the battle isn't so predictable or one sided Like for example equal supply immortal will completely wipe equal supply of any other armoured unit, so usually the immortals have less supply in that battle.

[@tzeentchnco.7441]

I'm sorry but did the tempest pilot say "Goodness Gracious Great balls of Lightning!"

[@IgnatRemizov]

Air attack upgrades don't affect the Oracle, since its attack is a spell/ability

[@dimitarlinov2393]

Are you sure? The damage on the weapon itself changes. Also it should be possible to link spell damage to upgrade level.

[@TrueThanny]

@@dimitarlinov2393 Upgrades have no effect on it in either direction. It does a fixed amount of damage to all units, plus a bonus to light units. That's regardless of weapon upgrades and armor upgrades.

[@flynnrider4354]

@@dimitarlinov2393 it’s true. Oracle’s attack is considered a spell (hence, the need to manually activate it when attacking) so it negates enemy armor and it weapon upgrades don’t have any effect on it as the damage output is fixed

[@xuanqinglong]

A Tempest vs Battlecruiser rematch but with a twist: Tempests can also use the Disintegration ability.

[@felipemaciel4450]

The current tempest no longer has this ability.

[@scp--un6pg]

stalker: *i have pictures of you HUNDREDS* me: thats extremely uncomfortable

[@maxbryant560]

the korean micro on the stalkers is hilarious how you supposed to beat that XD

[@tae-whankim9821]

Serral "Just swarm them" xD

[@ondrejmed6243]

To be honest, offensive blink to get the DPS in would be far more efficient.

[@mkipp271]

if you look at the concave that the stalkers have, less than half of them are attacking the void rays for most of the fight, while all of the void rays are doing damage the entire time. The escape blinks are helpful, but they could be much closer and still be able to do that, while the void rays would die much quicker due to increased DPS.

[@carllazarraga2858]

Void rays: no micro Stalkers: better micro than 3 maru's on adderall and cocaine.

[@Alknix]

Well, whad'you know, Protoss did burn their pathetic little fleet down to the last man!

[@MrDdz]

The BCs didn't use teleport? May have helped a bit.

[@quocannguyenle5441]

Jump the BC on top of tempest and target fire

[@zekrua4006]

@@quocannguyenle5441 same point applies with microing tempests with an oracle. the most strats this channel has is a-moving, because microing a fight like this would be HELL even for one side. if you micro one side better than the other (which is likely to happen because of human error) all of the comments will be yelling about it.

[@alejandroyava]

The oracle one was like seeing a printer work. Line for line.

[@davidburnett5049]

Man it is fucking Weird, to see Tempest win. It's weirder still to see BC's lose at the same time.

[@digi_edits]

Never heard that Stalker quote before, lmao!

[@AwoudeX]

imagine the tempests kiting on top of that

[@eXtreamAngel]

I think, that if Batylecruiser would use teleportation ability in the middle of the enemy army, so that Tempest couldn't use few attacks before they start battle, then Battlecruiser would have more chances to win.

[@kozaridis]

Mabey , but if the the power of the tempest is in focusing down a target , they could have sniped a few BC's before yamato or wat was the name finished the channel.

[@georgeclueney4419]

Does having 3:3 upgrades comapred to no damage:armour upgrades affect anything?

[@Tya.]

Depends on the matchup really! Won't change much for Tempests, but it'd be a big deal for marines.

[@thomashempel6919]

@@Tya. That's not true. There's a misconception that fast attacking units always benefit more from damage upgrades. While this is true if there is an upgrade advantage, it isn't the case if the upgrades are equal. Armor upgrades always block 1 damage per upgrade, while damage upgrades vary depending on the attack speed of the unit. This means that yes, marines receive a lot of benefit from +1 attack as they attack very quickly. This adds an extra benefit that because they do small amounts of damage very quickly, there is less chance of overkill. However, what this also means is that their damage upgrades are equivalent to enemy armor upgrades. This is why you see Protoss often get armor upgrades before damage upgrades in PvT because it negates the damage upgrades from the Terran. However, if you take an immortal for example, a damage upgrade gives them +5 damage against armored units. So in this case, the damage upgrade is worth 5 times as much as the enemy armor upgrade. This is the same story for tempests. They receive +5 damage per damage upgrade against massive units, which battlecruisers are. Battlecruisers however, receive +1 damage per damage upgrade. This means that assuming both the battlecruisers and tempests have +3/+3, the battlecruiser damage output will stay the same, while tempest damage output will increase by +12 per shot. With this in mind, without any upgrades, tempests deal 52 damage - 3 from the Battlecruiser armor, for a total of 49 damage per shot, or 11.22 shots to kill a battlecruiser. However, if both the battlecruiser and tempest have +3/+3 upgrades, the tempest will now deal 67 damage - 6 from the battlecruiser armor, for a total of 61 damage per shot, or 9.01 shots to kill 1 battlecruiser. This is absolutely massive. This is nearly a 25% damage increase. Remember, because the battlecruiser gains only +1 damage per upgrade, the +1 defense from the protoss armor upgrades negates it completely. To conclude, damage upgrades for fast attacking units are incredibly important in the early and midgame. However, assuming it's the ultra-late game where everyone has all the upgrades, the ones affecting slow attacking units are most impactful. I guarantee you that if you were to run this simulation again with both teams maxed out on upgrades, it will a completely different result.

[@thomashempel6919]

I should note, shield upgrades function the same way as armor upgrades. However, many people forego these. In this case, the damage upgrades from the battecruisers will be very impactful for the shield portion of the tempest.

[@thomashempel6919]

Update** I did some tests of my own, and without upgrades and with all yamatos used, battlecruisers won with around 25 left alive (some with missing health). With full 3/3/3 for protoss and 3/3 on terran, the battlecruisers won with around 20 left alive. The tests weren't always the same as how the tempests target the battlecruisers can have an impact on the final result. Still, you can see how much of a difference the upgrades make. This is especially notable as it is unlikely that the battlecruisers will be able to perfectly yamato right from the start without any kiting from the tempests. Now without any yamato usage, and with no upgrades on either side, battlecruisers win with around 15 units remaining. Now with no yamato usage, and with full 3/3/3 for protoss and 3/3 on terran, battlecruisers win with 6 units remaining. This is a HUGE difference. This is especially notable as tempests benefit most from micro and since I only a-clicked in my tests, this did not take effect.

[@thomasb1943]

@@thomashempel6919 Q

[@pursutruth]

Great content! Very well done. Can you create more battles where the resources spent more closely aligns for the two armies? I would suggest valuing gas like 25% more than minerals, as well. So for example, 1 oracle = 150 minerals + 150 gas = 150 + 150*1.25 minerals = 337.5 minerals, or about 7 marines. I understand oracles are so high priced because they have other abilities besides their main attack, but if you're just focusing on pure fighting ability, I would prefer seeing 200 marines only fight about 30 oracles so their values are on par.

[@momom6197]

200 marines vs 30 oracles, the oracles would barely have enough time to decelerate before they're turned into confetti. The values are already calculated using a custom formula, for the balance of the direct strike arcade game.

[@Michael.Feuerfuchs]

Yes, more equal money fights! Thats what it is all about in my eyes!!

[@沈啍]

*Sees Oracles vs Marines* Has fans: “Ah, sh*t. Here we go again!”

[@SuperCosmicSpaceMagnet]

Only got 1/4 this time. At least my "never bet on the marines" strat paid off!

[@Burt1038]

The Oracle army was over twice the resources.

[@hamsterfromabove8905]

The Oracle's and Marine had the same mineral costs for the units. But the Oracles cost 10,000 gas while the marines cost 0 gas. Therefore the Oracle's got literally double the resources on units in this fight. On equal resources Marines win easily against Oracles.

[@angeldelpozo2608]

0:48 "Its a trap!!" jejejeje

[@Floxxoror]

what is this red and blue symbol(where bcs have 20000 of)?

[@JWQweqOPDH]

Perhaps seconds required to produce the army from a single structure. Edit: Seems too long by a factor of 10 though.

[@gimmethegepgun]

In other videos, people say it's the cost of the army in Direct Strike.

[@abaddonarts1129]

I do have to say the tempest vs battlecruiser sounds super balanced on paper. If there was maybe... 45 of each, then i think it would be an insanely tight split

[@antoshkagamechanle4156]

guessed everything not playing starcraft just watchin some fun stuff. entertaining

[@nihil-baxter]

i like how totally senseless this is

[@synthwave_chad]

at the end it is better to write not who killed more, but the difference in the loss of resources

[@alexmelik4030]

No desintegrations and no yamatos? Or cruisers did use yamatos? Did not notice.

[@Eliminator__]

the stalker really is a stalker ;-; 3:04

[@ВасилЕгов]

what is the third metric of the armies, the blue and red symbol?

[@ShuckedAeons]

The third metric is the actual reason these tests are done. It serves to show the cost of each army in the direct strike arcade game mode. (which Tya is the creator of) that number is why these fights happen and seem so resource imbalanced, but unbeknownst to the commenters on every video complaining about resource imbalance the direct strike values of each army are always balanced or close to it.

[@kristopherleslie8343]

If the rear of the bc fleet teleported to the rear of the Protoss then fired Yamato it would have been a few better hits

[@tomaszkrol9465]

What's the point of giving BCs tactical jump if they don't use it? xd In this particular game, quick shortening of distance would change a lot

[@Amoeby]

Wait, no Tectonic Distabilizers?

[@shadowwarrior1003]

only affects building damage

[@noobdruid3805]

And those tempests were way cheaper too.

[@goldensea03idk51]

Orange stalker health on orange sand, why would you do that

[@garbuz3324]

Didn't really get the counterbalance of the teams. Also, expected the BCs to jump to the tempest, all other units utilized their abilities (jump then Yamato, so you don't have to close the distance later). Am I asking for a rematch? Guess I am :)

[@rice9224]

if you allow jump, then you need to allow tempest kiting, which means you need to allow target firing, which means you need to allow recall, etc. it's easier just to amove shit and call it a day

[@garakds9]

400 Tempest (player controlled) vs 1 Hyperion (AI)

[@lylytv6293]

Nice editing

[@RobinLundqvist]

maxed toss is so broken though

[@isaackvasager9957]

why?

[@trolllogic2897]

as it should be

[@tomhe286]

Toss is clearly the worst race at The moment

[@johnbunceiii2668]

Toss isn't broken at all. Just because the units are/can be strong doesn't mean they win everything. Take a look at tournament results. How them toss players doing?

[@hardshake7324]

ow thats the direct strike dude:D

[@isaackvasager9957]

why do you allow yamato for bc's but you never allow stim for marines...your decisions on how you test these are infuriating.

[@SpasMaster2304]

1) You see the stim pop-up above their heads. 2) He has health bar enabled only for damaged units and the health bars of the marines appears as soon as they start shooting (without being hit by the Oracles), meaning that they stimmed. Your blindness is infuriating.

[@isaackvasager9957]

@@SpasMaster2304 I didn't even watch to the end of this video after I saw the yamatos so I didn't see that this one even had marines in it. In every other video I have seen that this bozo makes he doesn't let the marines use stim or target fire but he has the opponent they are going against have max upgrades. It's hilariously stupid. For example, he had one where unstimmed marines went against carriers and they didn't even shoot at the carriers, just the interceptors. Absolutely stupid. But go ahead, be infuriated at me.

[@totall4579]

@@isaackvasager9957 1) You're supposed to kill interceptors in most scenarios, specially with units that don't overkill, like marines. 2) Can you post a video of unstimmed marines please?

[@johnbunceiii2668]

Stim or no Stim, those Marines weren't winning that fight. People often forget how strong Oracles are vs light units.

[@osmano2786]

Have blink stalkers ever lost a fight!?!?

[@stormrunner4081]

That’s stalker micro I think I got sympathy rsi from the ai just watching that

[@joshoconnor9666]

I got every single one of those wrong

[@kenners1993]

BCs easily win this if you blinked them onto the tempests

[@felipemaciel4450]

Tempest can run and kill ez bcs

[@kenners1993]

@@felipemaciel4450 bcs can keep up and will stay shooting while doing so

[@felipemaciel4450]

@@kenners1993 no because speedy tempest is 3,15 , and bcs is 2,62 , and tatical jump has 4s delay

[@BaufenBeast]

@@felipemaciel4450 Tempests have to stop to shoot; they can only outrun BCs if they don't attack. So if the BCs are on top of them, the tempests have to choose between standing their ground or letting the BCs rip them apart while they try to run away.

[@MetalGearRaxis]

Holy shit! So I play campaign only, how the hell did the Oracles just NUKE those Marines like that?

[@DaCooGa]

The do more damage to light units, which marines are

[@asdfqwerty9241]

They costed more than double the amount of resources as the marines, and being a flying unit makes it easier for them to stack up so that they can all attack at the same time.

[@kaitracksmalgom]

So the tempest is only good against other capital ships

[@Devestator2150]

Obviously, it’s anti-air attack has extra range and bonus damage against massive units

[@Skorpion1991]

not really, its also good to break terran siege for free, there is no static that can do anything for tempests, its the protoss artilery, I like to have like 5 of them to 1 shoot siege tanks/liberators from far away just for free, IMO they should be constant part of the protoss army. And no they arent good for capital ships, they counter only BCs, aren't so good against carriers anymore

[@Skorpion1991]

@@Devestator2150 carriers have same range and bigger damage even without any massive units bonus so..? No L2p kid, tempests is counter to BC but not vs carriers, not vs every capital ship, so its not obviously because bullshit can't be obvious

[@johnbunceiii2668]

No, not necessarily. Depends on how the ships engage. Also has bonus to massive, not specifically capital ships, so technically is a counter to massive units. Good for breaking up entrenched locations and occasional harass as well. Other than that, other options are better.

[@kaitracksmalgom]

@@johnbunceiii2668 ah gotcha I’m curious if this guy has done anything on battlecrusier vs Thor I’m under the assumption that mass thor can counter mass battlecruiser cause thors haven’t really failed me in fighting bcs (as long as it’s aliquot amount of them and upgrades

[@mitoroskokoros589]

that wasn't fair they had yamato

[@bsm1214]

Yeah, he didn't even use the main asset of BC. Yamato

[@TrueThanny]

@@bsm1214 What are you talking about? They all fired off their Yamatos at the start of the fight.

[@johnkovacs9722]

Welp 25% correct Stalkers were going to win I knew it, the rest oh boy was I wrong lol

[@Dragl1d3]

maraduers literaly hard countered thors, they do extra damage vs armored

[@zekrua4006]

@@Dragl1d3 don't thors also have damage vs armored?

[@johnbunceiii2668]

@@zekrua4006 I believe so, but you're forgetting the Thors can't hit the same surface area that many Marauders can. A 1:1 ratio (meaning quantity of units) would see the maruaders lose, but with those numbers they win all day, every day.

[@heisserkaiser394]

yeah! void rays died at 1st time :D

[@TTIDOPAC]

Ty for your content ! Hello from 🇺🇦

[@turtleslw1279]

You can always bail battlecruisers and repair them.

[@mikairaasokinasha5329]

All of these fights were complete mismatches in this video

[@joeking5215]

Some BC had enough energy left for yomato but didn't used it. Might of won!

[@Stiggandr1]

Yamato hasn't had energy since the days it was called Yamato 'Gun' in SC1. :P Yamato 'Canon' is on cooldown these days.

[@sarugakuza5108]

My man still living in HoTS

[@joeking5215]

@@electricitybomb you guys are right. I love to play with BC all the time and it's a big mistake by me 😂

[@Skorpion1991]

even if so , that was still unfair if BC was microed with perfect yamato micro and tempest was on a-move while tempest is created to be controlled all the time, kite back and forward because its faster and bigger ranged, so if they won on a-move only shows they are real counter to bc. Also look how much cheaper 50 tempests are in compare to 40 bcs ;D

[@jimmyha1898]

@@Skorpion1991 The tempests won because of no teleport. They got so many extra shots off. If the bc fleet ports on top and uses Yamato, it's over. I've won too many maxed out BC vs tempest fights. Tempests hard counter BCs in small numbers but not when it's critical mass. Check out Supernova's (former Korean pro) streams. That guy is a master of BCs and he pretty much says 200 supply BC has no counter. It's just that you can't get there rofl