Do EnChroma Glasses "Work"?

[@mememan5466]

The best parts of these videos is people in the comments telling me that I have no idea about colour blindness. I'm colour blind

[@Chromaphobe]

Try being a colorblind guy trying to teach color-normals about color theory...

[@mememan5466]

@@Chromaphobe it's funny that people with worse colour vision usually know more about how colours work

[@Chromaphobe]

@@mememan5466 Thats part of our coping mechanisms... I can't interpret color intuitively, so I've got to do it contextually and mathematically. Therefore I've gotta know more about color just to try and fit in.

[@vanderkarl3927]

@@Chromaphobe As a color normal who is also a big enough nerd to have already researched color theory, just want to say that you do seem to have a stupendous grasp on it all.

[@Naokarma]

I didn't really have anything to say this time, but I've commented on like every recent video, and the KZbin algorithm favors engagement, so this comment is mainly filler. Feel free to ignore.

[@Chromaphobe]

What a boss 😁

[@bingobongo3114]

I have read the Gomez-Robledo paper (I have a Msc in math stats). The big problem in their study is that they did not tell the participants what colours they saw when they put on the glasses for the first time, instead they had them retake colour tests after 20 minutes if I recall correctly. So that should imply some confusion for the participants (how do they know which is blue, and which is purple, for example?), meaning that there is "a ~50% chance" of guessing incorrectly. And that is how I interpret the numbers in some of the tables in the later part of the paper. They conclude that, because the participants scored as badly as before using the glasses, that the glasses did not improve colour vision. *My interpretation is that they set up the statistical part of the experiment incorrectly, and therefore got the wrong conclusion.* If you instead rely on KZbin videos, it is rather obvious that the glasses work for a (small or large I do not know) subset of people with colour vision deficiency.

[@maciejzajaczkowski4965]

Question: how do you accurately determine how to display colours for colour normals (especially in colourblind and enchroma simulations) when you are a strong protan and will not be able to see the simulations like a colour normal? Do you ask others to edit them with you?

[@Chromaphobe]

I have a series of LUTs that simulate different types of CVD. They aren't the most accurate and honestly, I need to make my own at some point based on more recent (and more accurate) models. When I need to name a color, I use a color picker to get the HSV values. I had some mixups here because I was improvising some lines before I knew the correct colors I'd be using in the edit. When I need a normie perspective, I get my wife. She always double checks all my assumptions about normal color vision in the penultimate cut.

[@JanPBtest]

As I have mentioned 100 times before, the Enchroma glasses DO cause the colour hue to appear in SOME cases, according to computer simulations. What it means is that colour-anomalous (not anopic) people can see purple but the spectrum that triggers this hue is, unlike in the normal vision case, _very_ unusual, practically never occurring in real life. The Enchroma glasses can generate this type of spectrum. This is not easily explained without a bit of math (the subject is more mathematical than people think).

[@bpark10001]

BRING ON THE MATH! What is so "unusual" about purple? Purple is "triggered" when spectrum is seen that stimulates the blue a lot, red a little, & green almost none. "Polluting" purple with a little green (or taking away some of the red) makes it gray or blue. Most "purple" seen in real-life is red & blue light, not violet light. So except for rainbows and gazing through prisms, the purples of the real world are purple, without the need for computer simulations.

[@Chromaphobe]

Yeah, I mostly agree, but increasing the saturation of purple doesn't necessarily make it "appear". A protanomal is still able to see a desaturated purple, and the limit for how saturated that purple becomes is almost equivalent to color normals, just from much more specific spectra (and therefore very rare indeed). I'll get into this in the next video.

[@maciejzajaczkowski4965]

@@Chromaphobe Well purples and magentas are probably the main exception as you could get a moderate protan/deutan who will have quite desaturated reds making purple and magenta appear as a dull blue. However, putting on the glasses will increase red saturation allowing the red signal to no longer be outcompeted but blue, thus letting them see new colours.

[@JanPBtest]

@@bpark10001 This page is not very suitable for math but the model I used is based on the idea from this paper: G. M. Machado, M. M. Olivera, L. A F. Fernandes, "A Physiologically-based Model for Simulation of Color Vision Deficiency", IEEE Transactions on Visualization and Computer Graphics, vol. 15 No. 6, Nov/Dec 2009. They use an opponent channel transformation approach.

[@JanPBtest]

@@Chromaphobe It's not increasing the saturation (as in mixing the RGB primaries differently) but altering the spectrum shape in order to induce a certain opponent channel combination which normal everyday spectra do not produce.

[@VenelinVenelinov-hd1yw]

Ton of work, great job buddy!

[@prolucas4866]

Here from MegaLag

[@kiwipomegranate]

Same

[@lylyeoh]

It'll probably work well for colour blind people where the Enchroma's notch filter is smack in the middle of the overlap of their "red-green" cones wavelength sensitivity curves. And won't really work if it's too near the peak of one of the cones or even past to the side of both cones. I'm not sure what the variation is like in real life. Even for "normal vision" I've seen different wavelengths being given for red and green peaks. I'm pretty sure a single notch can't work well for one group whose red cones are anomalous and nearer more normal green cones in wavelength sensitivity AND also another group whose green cones are anomalous and closer to the normal red cones in sensitivity. Also it'll probably work better outdoors where the lighting is full spectrum (and the reflected lights might be broader spectrum). But it'll be crap when the lighting is not full spectrum and the colour is from pigments which reflect "incompatible" bands (heck even people with normal vision sometimes have difficulty figuring out what colour some stuff is when the lighting is bad). p.s. Do the tetrachromats in the world ever complain all the images from screens with just RGB look really inferior to the real world?

[@Chromaphobe]

Hi, indeed the best notch filters would be centered on the intersection of the L(*) and M(*) sensitivity curves. Sometimes that is at ~530nm (protans) and sometimes it is at ~560nm (deutans), which is probably the primary reason why EnChroma has two products for deutans (and weak protans) vs. strong protans. That said, the notches are also quite broad, IIRC on the order of 50nm, because it is quite a feat to be able to tune the notch filters. Just like a camera, the more light you have to work with, the better (generally). A selective filter like this will always work best in bright lights where your eyes can maintain as high a dynamic range as possible. As you're thinking, the Color Rendering Index (CRI) of the light is very important in how it gets treated by the filter. Broadband light (high CRI) generally has the most to 'gain' through increases in saturation and narrowband light (low CRI) can be very susceptible to hue shifting. However, both of these can be seen as positive effects of the glasses. Your question on tetrachromats sounds just like this redditor I know... haha. Strong (functional) tetrachromats would absolutely see a difference between an RGB screen and the real world, which actually might be the most prevalent way of 'screening' for tetrachromats, especially when everyone has camera phones. However, I am quite firmly in the "human tetrachromats don't exist" camp and am very skeptical that any 'super-color-seer' is actually a functional tetrachromat.

[@Mohamed53578]

Question: I’m a strong protan too. At 13:10 you said that strong protans is an umbrella term that describes both anomalous trichromats and dichromats. And then you said if you are an anomalous trichromat then the glasses could have a positive effect on you. What do you mean by a positive effect?

[@Chromaphobe]

The positive effects are just anything I was describing in the video. Mostly that they make some colors pop (boost the saturation) and can make some colors a bit easier to tell apart. They'd do neither of those to a dichromat.

[@Mohamed53578]

@@Chromaphobe thanks

[@BlackxLight]

On Windows 10, there is an option to adjust your screen to compensate for various forms of colorblindness. (go to settings and type in 'color filters' in search bar.). It does a pretty good job. And it does not give everything a red tinge. Also, using it I was able to get a normal vision score on online color blind tests. Do you know how they do it? Maybe some form of electronic glasses would do the trick. Maybe in the distance future in a galaxy far far away.

[@bpark10001]

You need not go to a far away galaxy! All you need is a piece PALE red cellophane. With this, even one with achromatopsia will "pass" the test (if their visual acuity is good enough to see the screen). You can also do it with a bluish filter. But this does not enable one to SEE the colors. They are only being adjusted so the BRIGHTNESS is different. This is OK if the requirement is to differentiate 2 colors (such as reading one color text on background that normally can't be differentiated). But it is not OK for looking at (for example) photos of electric wiring & wanting to know the colors. For the most common forms of "colorblindness" (red-green) colors in the red-green area are "bent" toward yellow-green, & blue-purple are "bent" toward blue, so the app can compensate by "bending" them the other way. This is easily done by differencing the red & green signals, & adjusting them to be more different. The same can be done for the blue-yellow colors

[@user-gt3fh8us6n]

Good day, Could you please advise is that possible to pass vision test and Ishihara or HRR color test in USA, wearing usual contact lenses? I mean will doctor ask you to take lenses out?

[@balmar3]

So... why don't you try it and let us know about your experience? I'd certainly believe you, more than the heros of those Enchroma videos.

[@Chromaphobe]

The money back guarantee doesn't really work when you have to import them into europe. In my first video, I pledged to get them when I hit 1000 subscribers, which I hoped would be somewhere around the 20 video mark, but alas...

[@balmar3]

@@Chromaphobe I see, thanks. How about EU manufacturers like Colorlite?

[@Chromaphobe]

I've considered it, but the colorlite lenses work more like the 25c magenta filter and don't have the notch filter of the enchromas.

[@balmar3]

@@Chromaphobe Wow I didn't know that, this is getting very interesting. I have the funds as a birthday present and need to pick one of the manufacturers. Cannot wait for your Enchroma-how-it-works video; if you could also mention Colorlite and the others as comparison that would be amazing.

[@Blackforest123456]

@@Chromaphobe go to one of the retailer try them out and then you can discuss on!

[@austinfox7152]

What does fringe mean and can you put it in simple terms it's so complicated for me

[@mso4433]

All things considered, if I was colorblind and could handle the cost, I'd definitely give the glasses a try. Seeing the world in a dull way for a lifetime sounds cruel to me. Thanks for the video.

[@HVM_fi]

And I have a timeshare to sell you, if you are interested.

[@r89d]

It's not dull at all if it's what you saw your entire life, like it's not darker because you know what darker is; I can't talk by experience tho because im a tritan and i don't knoiw if it works this way

[@kiwipomegranate]

GOT AN ENCHROMA AD ON THIS LMAOOO

[@mulder1987]

Hi, thanks for the video. Moderate protane here. Tried Pilestone glasses, it didn’t work on tests. However it was easier to notice red flowers between trees green leaves. What I am trying to understand is whether the glasses are just tinted red or is there more in it? What else can there be? Lost my pair, want to buy another one, and I’m thinking if it’s just a red filter why not to try severe protan option this time? Does it make sense to you?

[@Chromaphobe]

For pilestone glasses, that is pretty much how they work, there is not much special going on, apparently. Just a colored filter. If you were impressed by the effect, by all means try another pair. There is not an objective answer for the type of lens that you will get the most "benefit" from.

[@mulder1987]

@@Chromaphobe do you mean Enchroma works in other way?

[@Chromaphobe]

Yeah, I'll have a video on this soon. EnChromas have the "notch filter" that can technically be effective with a neutral tint (though most of their lenses still have a colored tint). It filters the wavelengths that excite both the L and M cones and therefore can increase the relative saturation of colors, which essentially makes those colors more saturated, which in turn gives more contrast between colors. Pilestones can be useful and EnChromas can be useful in different ways. Naturally, neither are as useful as people tend to think...

[@mulder1987]

@@Chromaphobe thank you for clarifying. Can’t wait to watch your video

[@leave3879]

Enchromas wouldn't work on me, Or they wouldn't help me see new colours. This is because I'm tritan so I won't be investining in enchroma glasses. However I might get some by pilestone, as they do some that supposedly "work" For tritans. However I agree with you on everything, the glasses can't help you see new colours, they just seperate them and make them easier to tell apart

[@Chromaphobe]

It's easy to cover Enchromas. Because of their patents, the technology is very transparent. On the other hand, Pilestone is not nearly as transparent with how their glasses work, so it's hard to judge them. However, I'm still unlikely to believe the tritan pilestone glasses.

[@bpark10001]

Not so fast! if you are a tritanOPIA, then what you say is true. but if you are a tritanANOMALY, the glasses CAN help. Here is a list of KZbin videos where tritans try the glasses & claim color improvement (especially yellow, which is the color that tritans have the most difficulty seeing). kzbin.info/www/bejne/f4iokK1voZt9i9U maya sees rainbow flag kzbin.info/www/bejne/sHmVoq14i9yZZqs Triston sees yellow kzbin.info/www/bejne/mmm0eoOnfbd5mpI older guy sees yellow kzbin.info/www/bejne/qoTPd4yJrLZgoM0 amira sees yellow kzbin.info/www/bejne/qoTPd4yJrLZgoM0 also amira kzbin.info/www/bejne/jp65aZJomtxlsMk Caustic sees blue-yellow shirt kzbin.info/www/bejne/h3bWfqqJqdFgock Basim sees color If you can see SOME yellow (as distinct from red, not just "light red"), then you are most likely the ANOMALY type, and the glasses will likely help. Actually, this condition is easier to "correct" as the anomalous S cone is still distant from the M-cone. The glasses have a notch in the spectrum there. Here is another tritananomaly explanation kzbin.info/www/bejne/mZ2kdKumntpgjrM

[@Chromaphobe]

@@bpark10001 You say tritanopes can't be helped, but the girl in first video claims to have tritanopia! Seriously though, actually, all tritans can receive a benefit from EnChroma glasses for the simple reason that color-normals receive a benefit from the glasses: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z3nJdIyPZ6uZpsk The notch filtering works on the red-green channel even when the opsins are their standard 30nm apart, like in color-normals and tritans. The secondary notch filter between then M and S cones does not have the effect of 'separating' those cones to improve the blue-yellow channel because there is very little overlap between those opsins. Rather, It is there so the glasses can have a much more neutral tint.

[@bpark10001]

​@@Chromaphobe The girl in the video is mistaken! (Innocent mistakes occur because the tests do not accurately report the distinction. Even the Enchroma test makes no distinction between tritan-OPIA & ANOMALY!) The problem is that the web is filled with misinformation (nothing new, all forms of communication are laced with it. The web just enabled it to be generated & disseminated with impunity). The secondary notch DOES have the effect of separating for tritanANONLAY. In tritanANOMALY, the S-cone's peak is shifted from 420nm to 480nm, 60 nm closer, a HUGE shift! Shifted thus, it DOES largely overlap with the M-cone, causing "blue-yellow" colorblindness, but more accurately described as "blue-green colorblindness". The S-cone response to yellow causes yellow to be "blunted" toward white, gray, or pink. The following video gets it right (she shows color spectra for tritananomaly & tritanopia). kzbin.info/www/bejne/mZ2kdKumntpgjrM The surest test that someone has the ANOMALY form of colorblindness (whether protan, deutan, or tritan) is that the Enchroma glasses improve the color. The biggest mystery (to me) is this video, where Jack is claimed to have achromatopsia (either no cones working or 1 cone working. This was mentioned in the comments by the people posting. Then the comments got turned off so that is lost), yet he claims to see color. We don't know what he is seeing, but he must be seeing SOMETHING. He has the classic "photophobia" (day blindness) & poor vision characteristic of achromatopsia. I allege he must have 3 sets of working cones, but very few of them, perhaps like the guy I describe below. His is an unusual case, & should be studied! Note that he squints & does not "know" colors (unlike others), pleading for "color flash cards". kzbin.info/www/bejne/b5m4ZaqFprxmj7s I know of one other unusual case: Irnee D'Haenens (who worked with Theodore Maiman, in the discovery of the ruby laser). In the book: "Beam, the race to make the laser" Jeff Hecht, page 179, Irnee's vision defect was described (being in optics, he did extensive tests). When the laser worked for the first time, Irnee saw red, because the beam was so intense, and far into the red (694nm) that his few L-cones could pick it up.

[@Chromaphobe]

​@@bpark10001 Tritanomaly comprises several (6 or 7 as of 5 years ago) mutations of the S opsin (not including others unrelated to the opsin), none of them enact a shift in the spectral sensitivity peak of the opsin - unlike protanomaly/deuteranomaly. Its also important to understand that there is (mostly) no difference in genotype between tritanomals and tritanopes. "All" tritan defects have "incomplete penetrance", which means the same genotype will manifest very differently in different people (sometimes dichromacy, sometimes just tritanomaly). I've also see a claim that they are ALL progressive as well, so will always tend to get worse. I'd seen Tori's video before. Its not bad, but she does miss the mark in a few places, such as explaining the genetics of red/green CVD instead of the genetics of tritan CVD, which are about as different as genetics get. Its certainly not a reliable source of scientific information. Achromatopsia as well has some nuance that you are missing, but this is always understandable, as the terminology between achromatopsia and monochromacy is a messy one. Generally though, achromatopsia is becoming more and more used only for rod monochromats. In this sense, achromatopsia, like tritanomaly, also has several different factors/genes/mutations and many of these have incomplete penetrance, yielding incomplete achromatopsia. The photophobia that jack shows is definitely similar to what I've seen in videos of other achromats and I think it would be hard to a kid his age to fake that for just one video. If he were an incomplete achromat too, then he should also be able to experience a positive effect from the EnChroma glasses in much the same way a color-normal would. That laser book sounds like just the thing I would like. Thanks for the recommendation!

[@austinfox7152]

Wait so the echromas classes don't help with breaklights that's the main reason why I'm getting them

[@Chromaphobe]

Theoretically, and based on 1 user's observation. Enchroma would say that there is always hope that their glasses can do ANYTHING for a small sliver of the population.

[@oldlogin3383]

You can't see break lights? How? The colour is irellevant.

[@austinfox7152]

@@oldlogin3383 I can see there on and off they appear more dull and don't pop out so much so it not so aggressive e to me for like some with normal vision can notice it right away as for me it will take a longer time to see it

[@austinfox7152]

@@oldlogin3383 by the way my Grammer sucks and I hope your able to understand

[@thelis4u]

You look a lot like warden from rainbow 6 siege if you know who he is lol.

[@Chromaphobe]

That guy's like a badass Ned Flanders. I'm cool with that. I can't pull that mustache off tho.

[@bpark10001]

You need to build your credibility. Partner with those who can benefit from the glasses (-anomaly forms of colorblindness). As an -opia colorblind, how can you form any opinion whether they can "work" or not if YOU can't see it (& don't engage others YOU trust to report)? Just because YOU can't see it doesn't mean that no one else can see it. Have you conducted some sort of formal study? I have witnessed some of the reactions myself. 75% of them are not "sensational" or emotional. In fact, I have used Enchroma glasses in pranks (where user doesn't know what they are). Usually user reports something like "clearer vision" first. They are definitely doing something! This makes as much sense as a totally deaf person rating the quality & effectiveness of hearing aids!

[@Chromaphobe]

This is why I worked with enchroma themselves when making this video. Also, if you rely on personal testimonials, there is no shortage of that on KZbin and other platforms. That is not what this video is about. This video is for exploring what is *theoretically* impossible. And hopefully I've established myself as more credible on this front than an anomalous trichromat who doesn't know the difference between protanomaly and protanopia, (despite having experienced the glasses) in the same way that I can't expect an oncologist to know what cancer feels like, but I'll listen to them when it comes to how the cancer works.