Do Longer Extensions Result in more Torque Loss? Let's find out

[@thedrivewayman3833]

You don’t actually lose torque From an extension it’s how far off center are you

[@darianward7549]

yea, the further away from it on the parallel plane you are the more torque you have, not on the perpendicular plane

[@theonewithin609]

@@darianward7549 BINGO! Worthless "experiment". Once he got to 4 extensions and his torque results started going all over the place which was fixed just from supporting them and allowed correct torque the video could have stopped there.

[@darianward7549]

@@theonewithin609 it would be awesome if some people do basic research about physics before they make an entire video proving nothing

[@MotoGPatrick]

Actually if you use an extension to reach and end up off center to clear things guess what? You lost torque.

[@leebmc91]

Kind of bugged me you not holding the extensions straight when doing the test.

[@mickyt87]

Physics says there is zero torque loss. If apply 35 ft lb to one end of extension the other end must also have 35 ft lb applied to it from your fixed socket. Otherwise the extension would be rotating about its axis. The “torque loss” that you get is because the wrench and digital meter are not on the same axis. Although you apply 35 ft lb to the wrench when you break down the forces into there comments they are the same at both ends. The wobble extension demonstrates this perfectly.

[@MaximRecoil]

"Physics says there is zero torque loss. If apply 35 ft lb to one end of extension the other end must also have 35 ft lb applied to it from your fixed socket." No, there is loss through the extensions, but it's so small/negligible with these particular extensions that it can't be measured with his equipment. To illustrate the loss you just need a much bigger extension. For example, if you used a solid steel extension that was 1 foot long and 6 feet in diameter, it would weigh nearly 14,000 pounds, and applying 35 foot pounds of torque to one end of it wouldn't even budge it, i.e., the torque wrench would click but the reading on the torque meter would be zero. The energy you input with the torque wrench would simply be dissipated as heat because the extension is far too massive for 35 foot pounds of torque to overcome its inertia.

[@fatguyalwayseats]

@@MaximRecoil I don't know to many extensions 6' in diameter. But serious question. Can you give me the formula to calculate how much force is needed to reach elastic deformation for the size of the extension, diameter of the extension, and the length of the torque wrench?

[@mr22guy]

@@MaximRecoil You don't understand inertia. Inertia (in this case, rotational inertia) slows the acceleration of an object experiencing a force, but does not stop it. Your 6' diameter solid extension would indeed rotate due to 35 pound-feet of torque, assuming it experiences no friction. Rotational acceleration equals Torque divided by Rotational Inertia. Unless the Inertia is infinite, or there is some other factor such as friction, there will be motion. There is no torque "lost" in an extension. Extensions twist during use, as they act like torsion springs, however if it is kept perfectly straight and the head of the socket wrench is supported, then the bolt head must provide an equal and opposite force to the extension as the torque wrench does. So yes some energy is stored in the twisted "spring" but both ends of the extension are experiencing equal torques - it is at equilibrium. The only thing "lost" is extra energy that the user has to put in. And before you ask, that lost energy of the user doesn't require more Torque, it requires more Work (Work equals Torque times Angle). Meaning you have to apply the buildup of torque over a larger angle, and exert more labor.

[@MaximRecoil]

@@mr22guy "You don't understand inertia." Your non sequitur is dismissed. "Inertia (in this case, rotational inertia) slows the acceleration of an object experiencing a force, but does not stop it." You don't know what you're talking about. If the force isn't enough to overcome the inertia, then the object won't move, obviously. "Your 6' diameter solid extension would indeed rotate due to 35 pound-feet of torque" No, it wouldn't. And since that example isn't clear enough for you, let's make the solid steel extension 1 million light years in diameter and 10 million light years long, floating in outer space. You think 35 ft-lbs of torque applied to it would rotate it at all?

[@jakechimiak9626]

What about with a swivel socket adapter/universal

[@tnbspotter5360]

I think the droopiness of the chain of extensions introduce angles with each other that give results like the wobble extension at the end. Other youtubers have done this same test with no torque loss.

[@adambatchelder4121]

The slower you approach The Click point the less loss you will have has your extension is actually acting like a torsion bar Spring and winding up slightly.

[@SupernovaSpence]

That's why you see the biggest losses with an impact wrench. The spring dampens the blow from the striking mechanism and the longer the extension you use, the less the torque at the other end because the "spring" doesnt stay wound up between strikes. The hardness of the material of the extension also plays a huge role on the spring constant. Temperature also plays a role. A mechanic who's ever used torque sticks in a shop that's cold vs a shop that's hot will know that a cold shop can cause over tightening of lugs so you have to be careful. Likewise, when the shop is hot, you end up having to tighten it more with a torque wrench when you're done.

[@jasonyoung581]

Thank you for your time and money demonstrating this for those of us curious enough look into this

[@themaintenanceman1]

If I do use an extension on a torque wrench it’s usually 3 inch and under for what I do. Very interesting test. Thanks for sharing!!

[@daerrickjohnson1349]

The maintenance You don’t use a 6ft extension?

[@themaintenanceman1]

Daerrick Johnson 6ft would seem a bit excessive

[@charlschuck6]

This is one heck of a test I was wondering hehe you did all test I could ask for,thanks learn a lot from your experiments! Great video content

[@bowez9]

Show that extension length does not matter, it's the amount of misalignment in the center line. Proof was with the chair as an alignment tool was no loss. If only want to test distance then setup an shaft on bearings so there is no misalignment or drop from gravity. Assuming there may be some force lost in torsion it would not show up in DIY torque levels.

[@numberpirate]

Using trigonometry you will be able to see why the wobble extension has less accurate results when it angles away from zero (centerline of torque). Also you should look up the differences between accuracy and precision.

[@chiparooo]

Interesting experiment. Thanks for sharing!

[@xephael3485]

Technically not loosing torque, it's just being used to take up space in the extensions and for any malleability in metal. If you had single 10' extension it would probably have very little loss or equal a short extension.

[@AntonioClaudioMichael]

Very good results

[@franklandgraff1190]

Like that experiment, I never thought about torc loss

[@ryanpeterson2990]

Nice video as usual Chris. Good to know that using an extension in a pinch isn't the end of the world in most applications. My favorite torque spec is as follows: "torque it till it strips then back it out half a turn" lol

[@ClientGraphics]

Thanks Ryan!

[@Catrik]

Interesting. I'm not gonna waste time looking for the shortest extension-socket combo to torque my wheel nuts anymore, just gonna go with the 10" one and call it close enough!

[@BinhDong]

Cool video. You should do one with U joints and wobble sockets. The physics of the U joints and wobble should yield a decent loss I think 🤔

[@VreebieZ]

Putting more chairs (on each extension) = more consistent torque results (because angle matters, as confirmed by the wobble-test). Very entertaining and educational test, thank you.. =)

[@michealrobinson]

This experiment wouldn't happen in the real world, very interesting results, pretty informative. It does prove that extensions do create at least some loss in torque, even if it is just a small amount.

[@AntonioClaudioMichael]

Interesting video Chris

[@MCEngineeringInc]

Great video! Very interesting results. 👍🏻

[@_P0tat07_]

Haha, fun test. Say, can you test torque loss with swivels as well as universal joints? And if you really want to have some fun, try mixing drive sizes! An extension with 3 different drive sizes 😂. Bonus points if you throw some swivels into that combination as well!

[@danh2134]

Torque loss removing fasteners or installing ?

[@legitguy1309]

Swivels and universal joints will put the torque all over the place because you are changing the effective length of the wrench. The angles move the point of where the weight is being applied to the drive. This changes how much torque is actually being delivered, i.e. the length in your length x force is being varied. The tool cannot compensate for these changes.

[@seephor]

Extensions don't cause torque loss unless they bend at which point you will get a very tiny loss. It's swivel sockets that change the angle drastically which result in torque loss.

[@alexautomotive28]

Great video, very informative

[@DaleLucid]

What? No formula from the algebra teacher to help us calculate how much torque to bump per inch. And the ability to factor in number of joints? 😀 Absolutely fantastic and fun video Chris. Thanks

[@ClientGraphics]

No formula needed it’s like cooking with a dash of this and a pinch of that. Just don’t flip your ft-lbs or in-lbs or Nm that’s where you can have a bad day really quickly.

[@DaleLucid]

@@ClientGraphics LOL! Excellent. I just figured she didn't want to show off 😎. Look forward to the next stream. It really is an entertaining video. Well done.

[@andysteele4056]

I would like to see this done with a beam-style torque wrench.

[@MidwestToolReview]

Did you factor in torque loss due to tolerance/figment from extension to extension? A single unit would likely have far less torque loss when compared to several in-series, primarily due to how each anvil fits into the next extension. A “looser” fit would certainly have an impact on torque.

[@chucknSC]

No effect, because no torque is transmitted until the play is removed, the loss occurs only in how much you have to move the wrench to start the torque. His tests proved it.

[@brettwalkom948]

Haha no idea

[@I5ZQ8]

Only real torq loss would be with an impact since it has the hammering action.

[@rahalati]

Thanks, that was really helpful and confirms what I had thought. How ever, is that irrespective of the size of the bolt! Because I broke a 10 mm Transmission pan bolt that according to spec is 80 in/lbs using my torque tool with 11 in extension

[@rafaelmoral8053]

Nice test. Even though there is the explanation provided by phisics, it is always important to test things in real life. Thanks.

[@ericfransen4371]

After reading a few articles on this it is clear there two definitions of 'extension'. There is the one demonstrated here what most mechanics use and refer to. However if you get into specalized mechanics say aviation where safety is paramount and they sometimes use the term 'extension' meaning something like a lateral extension from where the socket attaches moving the socket away from the head of the wrench. Then you do need to do some math to get the new value. So I think this where the idea that the torque value changes come from someone heard that the values do change and applied it to the common use of the word extension. So it is true...from a particular point of view. :)

[@surfreadjumpsleep]

perfect! 95% answered my question. the final 5% is how accurate is the Quinn digital torque meter at lower torque. I've got to put on 80 inch pounds with this fel pro valve cover on my Dodge dakota. One of these silicon ones that don't want me to use sealant. I tightened it to snug and it was absolutely pouring out oil after a run. So I got out the torque meter and went to 80 inch pounds. Still seems to leak.

[@rodw]

Very nicely done sir 👍👍. Pretty predictable results to me, but Fun to see. On a side note I think your daughter spent a little bit more time with her Dad in the garage then Amy. : )) Observation from the last live stream I saw. God Bless you 🙏 and the family

[@ClientGraphics]

Yah, she has definitely spent more time both on projects or in the garage 😉

[@johnwatkins5809]

The perceived torque loss is probably due to lack of centering and support of the wrench head. Without support you are inducing a moment into your extension, but you’re also resisting the force applied to the handle of the wrench with the extension itself. If you summed the induced moment and the support force x moment arm it would probably come out to exactly the 35 ft-lbs. The torque wrench wouldn’t click unless there were appropriate internal moments inside the mechanism.

[@the86125]

The torque wrench is calibrated from the center of the drive, that means the fastener needs to be in center as well. Moving the center line anywhere in or out of that rotating center is changing the length of the lever, that is changing the torque. The amount of torque lost shouldn't be able to measured with these tools, at 35ftlbs. If there is any wind up in the extension it will be equity resisting on the other end. The click type wrench may be exerting a sudden impact at the final predetermined torque that is not being transferred to the fastener due to how fast it's being applied and released. Too many variables in this test to take anything serious. Try next time keeping the torque wrench drive in line with the drive in the torque reader and use a beam wrench, that uses smooth rotating torque. Having a sharp "snap" in the torque application is acting like and impact.

[@benhenson3910]

100%. Simple physics would prove this video to be bogus. Sum of the forces are conserved and sum of the moments are conserved. The moment at the Socket must be the same at the wrench or things would be turning.

[@MaximRecoil]

@@benhenson3910 "Sum of the forces are conserved and sum of the moments are conserved." There's loss through the extensions, but it's so small/negligible with these particular extensions that it can't be measured with his equipment. To illustrate the loss you just need a much bigger extension. For example, if you used a solid steel extension that was 1 foot long and 6 feet in diameter, it would weigh nearly 14,000 pounds, and applying 35 foot pounds of torque to one end of it wouldn't even budge it, i.e., the torque wrench would click but the reading on the torque meter would be zero. The energy you input with the torque wrench would simply be dissipated as heat because the extension is far too massive for 35 foot pounds of torque to overcome its inertia.

[@wty1313]

Most people who complain about "torque loss" are usually referring to the loss in reference to IMPACT tools - not straight torque loss, making the impact tool less effective. The longer/more extensions/adapters/etc., the more of the impact that is absorbed by the intervening adapters. In such cases, the 'accuracy' is not the issue.

[@PatFitzpatrick78]

Hmm 🤔 I have the same mower @5:28 how do you like it ?

[@micahhill4786]

That five foot extension is good for social distancing 👍🤪

[@ClientGraphics]

Hahah, didn’t even think about that but at least we know it’s possible 👏🏻

[@samsgarage1716]

Interesting video 👍

[@MrBuck295]

I would like to see this using 3/8 drive extension that are over 30 inch not several short one that add up to that length but one single extension , I have two that are over 30 inch and can feel the wind up when tightening or loosening bolts but using several short ones not so much

[@legitguy1309]

This is simple math. If you keep the extensions on a level plane with the the fastener, you will not change the effective length of tool. The instant you add angles or bends, you are changing the effective length of the tool, and the tool is not designed to compensate for this variable. The wrench is set to account for it's effective length being a constant, while allowing for force to be a variable. Essentially, torque is length of lever times force applied. This length number starts to vary when the extensions being used are on a non perpendicular plane (i.e. not running in a level/90 degree from handle path), or if you get bends in the extension. In your L(ength) X F(orce) = Torque formula, you are changing the L. The tool is not designed for this.

[@likeaboss882]

This is handy as heck. Thanks!

[@ClientGraphics]

Glad I can help! It was fun to have my wife help video this with me. Win Win✌️

[@Alanthe918mobilemechanic]

Well there is an equation used in aviation for when u add a extension on your torque wrench so I’m guessing if u wanna be just about on the money then yes it makes a difference but most non well known name brands are 3-6 % error snap on mac matco Cornwall are usually within 2%

[@dustin9258]

Helpful video. It would be interesting to see the same test with a 1/4 drive torque wrench. Seems like I can feel the long 1/4 extensions flex more but maybe with less torque it’s about the same error %?

[@toolsmetals2148]

I was waiting for this video because in theory I would had believed that yes you would get torque loss because with simple common sense all force and torque is directly applied at its anvil now the thing that I really Question is that what is the possible difference between using a Deep Impact testically to using a Shallow or Semi-Deep socket with the torque wrench properly calibrated because I would assume the shallow has the most closet fitment Ratio from anvil to fastener which should put out the most accurate reading but I could be wrong

[@ClientGraphics]

I skipped the 3” and 6” extensions because the loss was pretty minimal so using the shallow mid or deep sockets should be similar in theory. Most of the loss or variance being human error or consistency. Would still be an interesting one to test so I might come back and do that one with the Bosch Freak core 18v Impact at some point.

[@toolsmetals2148]

@@ClientGraphics Yea it would be nice to see I like how you go into further depth with alot of the Content you put out these tool brands and some of their designers need to take a closer look and take notes to some of these videos just like the video you did on the ratchets who would ever think the milwaukee 90 tooth design would beat out all other competitors need to do a comparison against some of the higher tooth count ratchets side by side with it and not just the 3/8" drive but the 1/2" also

[@robinbasulto9313]

Make a video with a flex head torque wrench to see how much loss there is at an angle.

[@Omardottcom]

That was fun.

[@Castor1Troy1]

can that torque meter be used with an impact gun? i'd be interested in seeing how much loss you get when using an extension on a gun

[@drodriguez3185]

If I remember well, you wouldn't had any torque loss if the extensions were completely flat. You did it with the wobble extension. The more angle you have, it would proportional to the torque you loss.

[@TheErki8]

No. You can't put more force than there is counterforce. But with impact wrench the extension absorbs the shock created by the impact wrench

[@rupunzel6299]

Torque loss can be reduced by making an extension using a 4130 chrome moly seamless steel tube of much larger diameter than the industry standard socket extension diameter that is solid steel. Try making a 3-4 foot long using 1" OD, 0.065" to 0.083" thick wall 4130 chrome moly steel tube with brazed or welded on 3/8" socket drive ends. OD of the round extension has a significant effect on resistance to twist. IMO, the industry standard extensions over 18" would be FAR better if they were made of seamless alloy steel tubing of much larger diameter than common extension diameters then properly heat treated.

[@TONYSTARK-jh2wu]

Ok but what about 1 24" extension vs 8 3" extensions to equal 24" is there a difference there

[@markarmstrong3394]

Yes. In the connections

[@Papaws_Garage]

The torque loss is not due to the extension, it's due to the person using the extension

[@benjaminmann5464]

What do you think about tekton torque wrenches? Any good?

[@ClientGraphics]

I have heard they are decent, but haven’t owned one personally. I wonder how a Tekton vs ICON torque wrench video would do? I’ll have to think about that one as I have a few torque wrenches😷

[@benjaminmann5464]

@@ClientGraphics Thanks. Great video like always!

[@VWBrah]

@@ClientGraphics I'd watch it lol

[@petethewrist]

Don't know how you getting such big differences because as far as the tool is concerned it clicks with the feed back from the bolt not from the pressure on the handle. The only significant reading difference can only be from operator error. And some twist in the extensions. The same applies if you hold the tool anywhere but the handle or if you extend handle with a tube as seen in this short video. Try and say it is wrong. kzbin.info/www/bejne/o5ycZnlmna2Gabcsi=vdS4hI08-O6Tjshk

[@vincentrobinette1507]

You will always lose torque if the extension is angled off axis. The more angle, the greater percentage of torque is applied as cantilever, rather than pure torque. Whenever it's necessary to use an extension on a torque wrench, it's necessary to use a fulcrum as close to the torque wrench head as possible. Technically, there is no torque loss, just wind-up loss. All those extensions act like a torsion bar, which means, that the wrench will need to turn more degrees than the fastener, due to elasticity in the extension. It would be more interesting to use a beam type wrench, rather than a clicker type, because of the impact of the sudden movement when set torque is achieved. The elasticity of the extensions tend to absorb(or at least store) that torsional impact of the click, resulting in a slightly lower peak torque reading.

[@ClientGraphics]

Yes, exactly right. Very well put together comment👍

[@Xietseluob]

Hi Chris. Thanks for these tests you make. Do you know this tool from Motion Pro ? : www.motionpro.com/a/adjustable-torque-wrench-adapter-08-0380/. I thought you might be interested in testing the torque loss depending of the angle you are using it. There is technically no loss if the angle of use is 90 degrees but a test is still interesting I think :)

[@NoShowT]

Torque loss is because you don’t have it center. And you need to be slow when applying up to the click.

[@eballacharles0302]

I like your tape measure what brand is that? ✌

[@ClientGraphics]

That’s was a Komelon magnetic tip self locking power blade 2 SL72425 It was a clearance item at Walmart back in December 2019

[@eballacharles0302]

@@ClientGraphics thank you sir, like your channel 👊

[@vishaluttekar]

Good

[@BrewCityRider]

Wish you had kept the extension length real world. I've seen these type of tests before, and if you keep everything at 90 degrees and operate the torque wrench properly, (not to say you weren't,) there is no torque loss. See Shane Conley's vid on this from his tech class.

[@chucknSC]

True because the torque won't be 'lost' unless there is an opposing connection. When the only torque connection is the workbench, there's only 2 torque points, the bench and the wrench handle. It can be a 100 foot extension, it won't change.

[@A_Bone1972]

curious about how using the longer extensions instead of chaining the shorter ones together would perform. i also just watched your torture test on extendable ratchets. ever notice that you're inconsistent with how much you choke up with that cheater? say hi to G² for me

[@famusman5989]

It was "good to no" stuff. My dad was telling me all my life that when u use extensions and or drive adapters u loose torque. But now I have a good idea of roughly how much

[@litvalex26]

LOL using Harbour Freight extensions, try using snap on or Cornwell extensions. I cant even get a bolt off with a 1/2 using harbour freight extension, I can get a longer Snap On and take it off with 3/8. Day and night difference.

[@michaspi]

litvalex26 It’s a bar of steel, not very complicated.

[@litvalex26]

@@michaspi Do you know why you have different grade bolts? Its just steel.

[@michaspi]

litvalex26 I’m not daft. Bolts fasten things together and go through a lot more stresses than a socket extension, which merely has to withstand temporary torsion. I spend my money on high quality sockets but don’t shy away from cheaper extensions. I have and use a variety of extensions from Harbor Freight, Husky, Kobalt, Stanley, Stanley Professional (pretty much Proto), overseas Craftsman, USA-made Craftsman, etc. I’ve never had one break or distort from proper use. I have an extra long 1/4” HF extension and it’s not perfectly straight anymore because I was *ahem* doing some off-label activities (used it as a pry bar) 😂

[@KBLIZZ333]

Got that same calendar lol

[@ClientGraphics]

Nice, I still like to have a calendar around also.

[@CommandoLAX]

The lack of counter force being applied here makes me want to beat you with those torque wrenches.

[@garymucher9590]

Unless you can accurately calibrate any torque wrench before using them each time, all you really are doing is getting each nut or bolt to the same torque but no telling how close that actually is to what you set the wrench to. In other words, plus or minus any numbers doesn't have as much effect on the bolt or nuts because you are tightening them all to the same "close" value... That actually is more important then hitting the torque value dead on... JMHO

[@rsamano4434]

It doesn't matter how long it is..... wow. If you set it to a desired torque no matter what it has to click off at what you said it at... the percentage loss is because the extra load of the weight....

[@Airman..]

Torque loss is due to friction in multiple extinction male/female drives not in-line otherwise length have no effect on torque value no matter of how long the extension is .. longer extension means more torsion between the wrench and the socket this means the impact will be on the torque wrench travel angle to get the click

[@stephanpicotte5863]

U haft to hold the head of wrench in line . Lol that's why u are seing big number drops.

[@TheEpicsportstime]

There's no loss. Anyone with a brain that's mechanically inclined knows you won't lose turqe if the extension doesn't break off. Maybe use your hand to hold it on center to the best of your ability

[@niteninja0133]

Use a digital torque wrench and try the test again

[@kwmiked]

Really dont think this is accurate, how could u have less tq loss with more extensions? Doesn't even make sense when its 7ft long and it's less then the test before it. I think the click of tq wrench is throwing the digital meter off. U can tighten something down by hand with a 2ft extension as hard as u could. Take off extensions and u could tighten it more with half the amount of force u did with the extensions. Plus u should've tried just the chrome to see if a difference. I bet there is more on the chrome then with impact

[@MT-rg4dm]

Do smaller extensions

[@isaiahdaquioag7044]

Sampo wit universal

[@ArdiArdi-cg5pr]

But you are not holding the wrench in a proper way

[@ArdiArdi-cg5pr]

It means you are not good with the tools mate

[@jasonpopielarczyk7511]

Yeah it not how much extension it’s the distance from center point between torque device and center of socket end torque wrench. You let them sag and get out of alignment. Your followers also watch flat earth videos.

[@guyconnell2250]

"coming in". A total ripoff from Real Tool Reviews.

[@TK-cl1jm]

Ridiculous

[@williamleinonen4888]

Lame test