Do they all deserve it? | H-Rated Skills in the 2022-24 Code

[@gymnasticsmasterclass]

Note: - Full-in technique: twist in the first salto. - Full-out technique: twist in the second salto.

[@Zuranthium]

Neither of these elements were an actual full-in or full-out. Both ladies are twisting during both saltos, Touzhikova just twists slightly more in the first salto than Chusovitina.

[@rachel705]

@@Zuranthium Do they get any kind of deduction for that?

[@Zuranthium]

@@rachel705 No it doesn't matter

[@MrCph2200]

I think - instead of downgrading skills with higher risk of injury - like the Amanar why not focus on gymnasts working towards better and better technique and keep the high rating: - increase the deductions for steps to the SiDE or for example narrowing the space you should land on and make bigger deductions for overstepping the lines in the side. Watching double yurchenko all the time is boring - I’m sure it also demotivates many gymnasts

[@ayroneva6804]

and the people watching it... the vault has become a monotonous and predicable event.

[@jbmusician2007]

@@ayroneva6804 uneven bars too

[@mrsfrappucchinoblub6005]

@@jbmusician2007 exactly. I am not a gymnast, just an avid watcher and I swear to god, if I have to see one more Jaeger to Pak, I am done 🙈🙈

[@Margo-oj5yc]

The only problem with this is that it would hammer gymnasts for a post-flight that isn't in a perfectly straight line. That, to me, is a very different and much less serious error than steps to the side.

[@PhenixJoe]

Jaegers to pacs aren’t all that common. Do you mean a Tkachev to pac?

[@hannibaljustincase9985]

I personally think none elements should be downgraded, only upgraded. If you downgrade Silivas gymnasts will simply stop doing it in favor of easier elements. It already happened on vault with Amanar over the past decade and look how few gymnasts can do it nowadays. Just because element is popular doesn't make it any easier, and if we continue the trend of constantly downgrading skills in a few years we'll be back to floor routines from 30 years ago, because why risk anything? I'm not saying gymnasts should push themselves for difficulty of Simone, but this is a sport nonetheless.

[@Keemster234]

My thoughts EXACTLY!!!

[@josephqualtier961]

Agreed!

[@poshbo]

It's also because execution deductions have gotten tougher in recent years. 10 years ago even a somewhat bad Amanar scored higher than a good DTY (see Maria Paseka circa 2012). Nowdays a bad Amanar will get killed by the E panel so gymnasts no longer have an incentive to push themselves into doing it

[@punchingkwan3052]

@@poshbo na, gymnast was just way too lazy nowadays, gymnast back then were way stronger. Vault: In 2012 the top 4 gymnast have/had an Amanar. And most of them execute them beautifully Bars: In 2012 different kind of variations, Chineses pirouetteing skills, russian swinging up and down the bars, and the US performing difficult release skills. Beam: Less Connection, Hate seeing switch split to switch split half to a back tuck, or front aerial to split jump and straddle jump, more difficult elements, idc it is acrobatic or dance, just stop connecting, The US gymnast should try to get there splits square imo, jordan chiles was way too muscular which make her way too ugly on beam Floor: Deduct heavily on artistry, force gymnast to balance things out, Larissa floor has way higher difficulty than those Americans nowadays, but still manage to keep the artistry, even the 3 US girls in Rio was artistic enough, but look at jordan chiles, skinner and most importantly carey floor, looks like a robot. Only Russian gymnast was still keeping there artistry. I dont like to see super difficult tumbling, but I want to see both. A clean but difficult routine. All 4 events just keep the D score maybe slight adjustments, but deduct heavily on leaps, artistry and definitely forms in tumblings.

[@jbmusician2007]

Routines 30 years ago were more artistic, creative, and cleaner to watch.

[@cheriolisterand9194]

Double Double on Floor please, go back to G. Double Double on Beam, please at least upgrade to I. Double Double on Bars, okay to stay on F. Double Double on Vault? Maybe at least 6.4?

[@maccamac13]

I’d like to see someone perform a dos santos that’s actually laid out, unlike the original

[@Star_Jewel]

They did Simone dirty downgrading her skill. If it was such a "safety issue," then just freaking ban the skill! Save us the cheap excuses for not being able to accept the evolution of gymnastic 🙄

[@kawaiichan6897]

I think dos Santos needs a upgrade l don’t think the silivas or the chusovitina need to get downgraded but ldk

[@sagemoonchild333]

Downgrade the Silivas. There’s no way it should bear the same d score as the biles dismount on beam. That’s just dumb

[@1itslaurahere1]

Is the Derwael II not an H?

[@gymnasticsmasterclass]

It was downgraded to G in the 2022 Code

[@edwardmiller3308]

Silvia’s on floor H =Biles on beam a T

[@gymstyle5091]

Unless you can do a difficult tumbling skill like Simone Biles (Good form, great height, fully rotated with your chest up during landing) you shouldn't be getting credit for the skill. Jade's Carey attempting to lay out 3 twists actually getting credit is a great disservice to the sport and someone like Simone who actually does the difficult skills the right way. If the judges deducted fairly (and were given more options in scoring) then we wouldn't see gymnasts chucking skills because they wouldn't get credit. I use Jade as the example because anyone watching her do that triple " laid" out knows she wasn't laid out ( At all) It is really unfair to the other gymnasts doing a skill with slight less difficulty losing out because the judges care more about the reputation of the gymnast or the Country they are from vs the quality of skills.

[@benbailey159bb]

The Biles being H seems fine to me. On the one hand you don't have the spring from the floor but on the other hand you have extra height from the bar down to the landing. Evens out if you ask me.

[@aguti7920]

so the Full-In Dismount should be E?

[@jamm1227]

You have a spring on the floor. The bounce/height you can get is incredible. You do not have that on beam. Yes she’s high up in the air but many gymnast can barely get a double pike around with out a low chest. Now add two twist to that.

[@vonnam21n91]

Bit you also have more room to run and build up momentum on floor .

[@Sunlias.]

skills on floor need to downgrade, like double layout should be "E", silivas "F" , chusovitina: "F", and front skills like 2:1/2 twist should be E, triple twist "F", triple twist with 1/2 "G", I don't see so much twist on floor, all I see is a lot of silivas and chusovitinas getting bore 😴😴

[@ayroneva6804]

I couldn't agree more with you. almost Every routine nowadays has a double layout or a silivas, it's getting too predictable, most gymnasts have mastered those skills, we need to see innovation and originality again

[@cocoroni1031]

Double layout should stay F because you need more tumbling height than full in / full in pike to perform it safely. Silivas / Chuso / Double Layout have very minimal build-in deductions.

[@gabrielmoro3d]

The Dos Santos is absolutely beautiful. It made Brazil go wild at the time and I'm glad to see it featured all the time. :)

[@MrsTlotto]

Just like Daiane 🥰

[@captainbryce1]

The fact that the Biles (double double off beam) and the Silivas (double double on floor) are rated the same is ridiculous! Doing that move off a 4 inch wide beam is significantly more difficult and this proves how unfair the FIG's valuing of the Biles is.

[@randomedits7325]

how is the biles on beam the same as the silivas what😭

[@hannibaljustincase9985]

I wonder what they'd do if someone would submit double tuck 1 1/2 on beam? lol

[@kp395]

Because the Silivas is way overrated.

[@josephqualtier961]

@@kp395 nah the biles is just underrated

[@asharadayne6159]

@@josephqualtier961 both are true, IMO. The Silivas should be a G (appropriate .2 upgrade from the Mukhina) and the Biles should be an I or a J. Either that, or the Dos Santos II needs to be upgraded. It’s so much harder than the Silivas and the Chuso.

[@poshbo]

@@hannibaljustincase9985 the full twisting double tuck should go down to F (which I think is justified) to be the same as the triple twist, the 1.5 twisting double tuck would be G and Biles would be H. The Silivas on FX should go down to G. In effect, the same skills performed on BB should be one tenth higher than on FX. At least this way there's internal consistency of logic.

[@derekf0670]

Silivas should be downgraded imo

[@camiloholguin8208]

Yeah it should be a G!

[@yooowhatsgood]

i don’t think it should, i understand a lot of gymnast can do it but they always tend to do it for their opening pass as their biggest pass throughout their routine, it goes to prove how difficult it is considering it takes so much energy to complete and stick. vast majority of gymnast complete the rest of their routines with “easier” passes after that flip, so it just highlights the Silvia’s difficulty.

[@DanielBSantiago]

Why do I think this is true

[@hapachick77]

You should be downgraded

[@maurened5969]

That's Chelsie Memmel throwing a Sos Santos into the pit at age 32. She is amazing.

[@jardielgomes2204]

O Biles da trave ter sido homologado como "H" foi um absurdo, tendo em vista que é muito mais difícil realizar um duplo com dupla saindo da trave, do que no solo.

[@punchingkwan3052]

I think the rating of the double double on floor should be downgrade, an H is way too high,how could you get an F for a double front pike but an H for a double double.

[@cleitonpereiraalves8579]

Sim, bem como avaliarem o yourchrenco duplo mortal carpado como 6.6... agora seria um 6.2 ....é muito mais dificil que os outros movimentos

[@netolee1702]

O pior de tudo foi a cara de Pau da confederação, eles admitiram que a nota tá errada mas manteriam assim mesmos por causa do risco do elemento

[@marcelysoares2441]

@@netolee1702 po mas faz um certo sentido pensar nessa parte msm, pq a simone é absurda e tem tdo aparato técnico pra poder treinar isso bem. Mas conhecendo a história da ginastica e erros passados, acontece muito de ginastas com poucos recursos ou habilidades para aperfeicoarem a tecnica em elementos mais simples arriscam o elemento mais dificil por dar maior nota mesmo perdendo em execução. Dar brecha pra q isso acontecer já causou situaçoes fatais e a FIG precisa olhar pra esses aspectos

[@Fci99]

How can a double double on beam and floor have the same difficulty 😭 sooooo stupid FIG

[@marjoriegonzales4677]

Si no van a bajar el silivas entonces que le suban al Dos santos, uno lo hacen al menos 3 veces en las finales de suelo y el otro no lo ha hecho nadie más que la propia Dos santos

[@captainbryce1]

The only two backwards tumbling skills on floor that I ever thought were undervalued were the Dos Santos II (which thankfully they have it right now), and the piked full-in, which is rated the same as a tucked full-in (E) and should be rated F instead. Other than that, I think the frontwards triple full ("Maldonado" rated F) is rated too low - it should be a G. And if we ever actually see a frontwards double pike half-out, it should also be rated G. Other than that, I think all of the floor tumbling skills are rated correctly. I do think that they should follow what figure skating has done and add a bonus .1 to any skill done after the 60 second mark. The 3rd or 4th tumbling passes are always more difficult than the first two because of the fatigue factor. So for example a Silivas performed as a dismount should be worth an I rating compared to its H rating if done as a mount. This would encourage more variety and truly distinguish the best athletes from each other without having to radically alter the rating system they have in place.

[@aguti7920]

the Biles beam dismount should be an "I" at least

[@jaquelinemendes7182]

Imagine working hard for a new element and not getting the recognition you deserve, poor Biles.

[@diasrosa1180]

Dos Santos era para valer mais!!

[@nicoleoliveira2611]

Quando vamos ver uma ginasta executando Dos Santos II novamente?

[@ayroneva6804]

provavelmente nunca, a não ser que prezem pela originalidade e sofisticação do que por ganhar mais ponto, porque o Silivas tem a mesma dificudlade e é mt mais fácil executar, n vale a pena tentar outra acrobacia com o mesmo valor e mais difícil fazer. o Dos santo II tem uma chegada às cegas no solo, enfim... deviam aumentar pra encorajar outras ginastas, o silivas já dominou o solo

[@nicoleoliveira2611]

@@ayroneva6804 esse silivas de tanto as ginastas executarem já tô achando muito sem graça, o dos Santos II tbm tem um impacto de chegada mais forte por isso que as ginastas o temem, tadinha da Daiane que estourava o joelho executando ele mas nunca deixava de faze-lo.

[@jaquelinemendes7182]

Queria ver a Rebeca ou a Biles fazendo acho a forma da Biles e da Rebeca bonita para mim elas são as melhores acrobatas atualmente mais acho difícil a Biles fazer ela gosta de criar seus próprios saltos acho mais possível a Rebeca fazer ia ser foda ver ela fazendo de brasileira para brasileira.

[@nicoleoliveira2611]

@@jaquelinemendes7182 eu acho que a Rebeca não consegue fazer o dos Santos II. Tem um vídeo que ela gravou com Arthur Nory respondendo perguntas dos fãs, daí uma das perguntas era: vcs conseguem fazer o duplo twist carpado(do Santos I)? Ela responde que não pq é muito difícil porém esse vídeo é de 4 anos atrás e ela evoluiu bastante

[@nicoleoliveira2611]

@@jaquelinemendes7182 kzbin.info/www/bejne/pKC1iomLi9asorc esse é o vídeo que eu citei

[@AnnekaMorgan]

If the Chusovitina and Touzhikova are considered the same skill with different technique (full in versus full out), why aren't the Dos Santos II and Biles I also considered the same skill with different technique? I'm not an expert but I'm pretty sure they're the same move just with the half twist in different saltos (Dos Santos II in the first salto and Biles I in the second).

[@poshbo]

The Chuso and Touzhi both ultimately have 2 back salto layouts with a full twist, when the twist happens is a relatively minor difference. The Dos Santos II is a half twist to double forward layout while the Biles I is a double back layout with a half twist. So the difference is much bigger: one is a forward element while the other is a backward element. This is particularly important since under the compositional requirements on FX, you must have forward and backward tumbling elements

[@AnnekaMorgan]

@@poshbo Ohhhhh of course, that makes sense, thank you!

[@galmaravilha8510]

Isso que fizeram com a Simone é simplesmente criminoso Dar a nota errada, de valor menor , pro exercício dela e ainda ter a cara de pau de admitir que tá errado mas estão fazendo pra outras ginastas não tentar é simplesmente absurdo

[@marcelysoares2441]

é responsavel na vdd. Eles precisam olhar pro panorama tdo da ginastica mundial e as possiveis consequencias disso, nao só pro lado de ser justo com a simone (q ta num nivel tao a frente das outras q não vai perder por algo do tipo)

[@mariamgriffin9765]

no one can do it like Ms Biles she's the GOAT...for sure !!

[@mrparts]

So funny that your gymnastic videos are getting right wing transphobic ads .

[@josilyn5419]

is there any j skills yet?

[@luminousmoon86]

Yes, the Biles II on the floor is rated a J. Pretty sure it's the only J rated skill in women's gymnastics. Jade Carey has done a laid out version of the Biles II a couple of times, which she submitted to the code of points in the 2020 Olympics and it was preliminarily rated a K, but she never actually performed it in competition, only in podium training and stuff, so it hasn't actually officially entered the code of points.

[@FranciscoCunha2004]

Who is the gymnast in 0:07? That Arabian was brilliant.

[@gymnasticsmasterclass]

Nia Dennis, 2013 Secret US Classic

[@francisnguyen6349]

Silivas should be the downgrade in Gymnast.

[@JoaoOliveira-ty9ej]

Dos Santos 💚💛💙

[@demonsalwayswin]

Double twisting double back tuck from beam where all you have for a take off and acceleration is a narrow piece of wood + effortless landing with high chest. No one will ever beat Simone, no one.

[@theonlythingable]

Agreed! Even if "The Biles" was higher than H i dont know many girls who can perform it. Simone is just a legend

[@francisnguyen6349]

Simone Biles is doing her Double Twisting Double Tuck dismount off her Balance Beam.

[@theonlythingable]

Simone is not doing anything these days, she's still off from the sport. And for her last performance on beam she actually did a douple pike as dismount

[@aguti7920]

@@theonlythingable she still did the double double in 2021

[@gymstyle5091]

Dos Santos is a perfect example of my earlier skill. That was not laid out. Never should have been given credit. Her hips were piked.

[@kp395]

Silivas on floor deserves a long overdue downgrade (to G), Chusovitina also (to G). The ratings used to be something like this, A, B: Easy elements for almost all elites C, D: Elements with average difficulties E: Difficult elements F / SE: Very difficult elements G+ / SE: Rare elements that warrant extreme difficulties

[@hannibaljustincase9985]

If you downgrade Chuso you have to downgrade Moors, Biles I and DLO as well tho.

[@kp395]

@@hannibaljustincase9985 Sure, why not. The MAG element rating progression makes much more sense, with Double tuck at C, Full in at D, Double double E, and Triple double G. Double layout at D, Double layout half out & Full in layout at E, Double double layout at F, and Triple double layout at H. The progression is much more smooth and reasonable in MAG. The ratings of WAG Fx are all over the places.

[@SociallyDistantnow]

Chuso doesn’t need a downgrade, as is evidenced by the fact that hardly anyone can do it without piking it down.

[@josephqualtier961]

@@kp395 the mens code is different for a reason, they are better at tumbling. A triple double being a G in women would be ridiculous and the floor scores wouldn’t differentiate the okay from the absolute best:

[@poshbo]

I think the entire system of rating difficulty should be overhauled so that it goes like this: A is 0.1, A+ is 0.15, B is 0.2, B+ is 0.25 etc. It will allow a more precise breakdown of difficulty levels. The current system of each increment being one tenth inevitably means some elements are overvalued, some undervalued

[@FigureNastics]

I really loved Dos Santos after watching her become Brazil's 1st world gymnastics champion on floor in 2003. However, I don't feel as if she ever did a real laid out double Arabian. She actually grabs her hips to help pull it around. I don't blame her at all for submitting it bc I know she worked hard af to get to the elite level. But I feel like the FIG wouldn't credit hers as a layout today.

[@alex89yu]

Daniela SilivAÁs lol

[@gymstyle5091]

With all the extra spring in the floor, the Silivas is like a full in from the early 90's.

[@mht4908]

Silivas should be downgraded by to G, Biles II and Dos Santos II should be upgraded to at least an I