Do we actually need CONDUCTORS? Carlos KLEIBER und Beethoven's 7th

[@Marcus_Berger1701]

Since i heard Carlos Kleiber the first time i can't listen to the same symphony conducted by a different conductor than him. His interpretations are so full of joy and energy. Even when you don't see him conducting you still can hear it. He is hands down the best conductor the world has ever seen. Passion and absolute perfectionism is what makes him outstanding. It is told that he was never really satisfied. Even when everybody in the audience said it was perfect, he still wanted more. Around 1991 when he conducted Beethoven everybody in the room was blown away. When he came out of the concert hall he was mentally destroyed and muttered to himself and quickly vanished in his room. He thought it was a real bad performance. Its a tradegy that what he heard in his mind never really translated to reality in the way he wanted. I wish there were more rehearsals on KZbin of him.

[@peterpawlik2495]

Thank you for your comment! Although it is really hard to say (since there are many outstanding conductors out there) he is my favorite as well. And I share your disappointment that there are not more recordings and rehearsal videos with him 🙁

[@Marcus_Berger1701]

@@peterpawlik2495 You're right, it's of course subjective who is really the best conductor. But for me i can say, some symphonies conducted by him, i never can listen to other conductors after listening to his interpretation. "1001 nights" and "Sphärenklänge/ "Music of the Spheres" with the Vienna Philharmonics for example. Both were much better in rehearsal than during the live broadcast.

[@BytomGirl]

I just remembered something, a great example of how much influence conductor has on the way orchestra plays. The debut of Rachmaninov's 1st symphony conducted by drunk Glazunow. It was so bad everybody was leaving and booing. After that Rachmaninov went into depression and didn't compose for a long time. And did you see film Young Toskanini? When the original conductor didn't show up, they replaced him with an old conductor who was booed off the stage so they brought a very young and unknown Toskanini,. it was opera Aida. People started booing again until he started conducting and suddenly it was completely quiet. It was a big success for Toskanini.

[@ericstevendennis3206]

I was a pretty fair violinist in high school (I even got accepted by that school in Fame!) and all I know is that the three most important things to do are: be in tune; learn how to count; and LOOK AT THE DARN CONDUCTOR!!!

[@peterpawlik2495]

Breaking it down to the essentials - I love it 😂👍

[@jorgaba2865]

I never played in an orchestra, but throughout high-school and college I played the tuba in concert bands. I always appreciated when conductors were very animated and expressive -- every twitch, jerk, fist-pump, glare, scowl, and sneer was a source of feedback. Without the conductor, we could probably "get through" a piece, but we could not really *perform*.

[@peterpawlik2495]

Thank you for your comment and thank you for your observation about the difference between starting/ending the music at the same time and performing 🙂

[@bomcabedal]

I think Roger Norrington (whatever you think of him) said it best: "The conductor saves time". In today's orchestral practice, that's an important thing. An ensemble can play without a central authority, but every decision will take a lot more effort. However, I think the conductor is at least as important as a visual anchor for the audience. He relays when a piece starts and ends, and gives them some idea about the content. That's a part often overseen.

[@peterpawlik2495]

Thank you for your comment. The versatile role of a conductor is really fascinating. And his function as a "time safer" is definitely often overlooked. Thank you for bringing this to my attention. And I really like your picture of the conductor as visual anchor for the audience 🙂

[@n.n.5293]

Kleiber always reminds me a bit of a swashbuckling pirate captain when he‘s conducting it is simply glorious. My first introduction to Kleiber was his Traviata with Cotrubas and Domingo and that was the first time I really understood what a massive difference a good conductor could make. For me he is simply put one of the best. Up there with Furtwängler and Bernstein. I have never heard any work of his that didn‘t absolutely amaze me. His cooperation with the orchestras of Munich both Radio Symphony and Bavarian State are the high point of this city‘s musical history in my opinion.

[@peterpawlik2495]

Thank you for your comment! Yeah, his opera recordings are truly amazing. And the work he did with the Bavarian Radio Symphony is outstanding!

[@peterpawlik2495]

And btw: "swashbuckling pirate captain"? Brilliant 😂

[@n.n.5293]

@@peterpawlik2495 yes! I swear. He just grabs onto the bar behind him to steady himself and keeps conducting while standing slightly angled. It‘s beautiful.

[@peterpawlik2495]

@@n.n.5293 😄

[@hansmahr8627]

He really was one of the greatest conductors, he always amazes me. The only problem with Kleiber was that he didn't perform or record that much and that his repertoire was rather small. But then again, maybe that was part of his secret: don't overdo it. Don't perform music you haven't perfected or that you don't feel a connection to. Don't overwork yourself and take the joy out of it. In his performances you can see and hear that he absolutely loves what he's doing. Maybe it would have been very different if he had performed more regularly. That might have worked for Abbado or Bernstein but probably not for him. Of course his insecurities also played a role and he was difficult to work with because of his demands and because he might cancel at the last minute but you just can't argue with the results.

[@BytomGirl]

Oh please, not Oprah, I lost my appetite. I have seen few known conductors live, had season tickets to Blomstedt, MTT, Nagano, attended concerts of Sir Gilbert Levine in Krakow, have seen Yehudi Menuhin conduct twice. Love Carlos Kleiber, have his Carmen DVD with Obraztsova, Have Ozawa, Beechum, MTT , Lainsdorf and others on DVDs. And I greatly respect ballet conductors, they have the most difficult job I think, I have many ballet DVDs and had a chance to observe them. They know when to pause when public is applauding dancers and when to begin when they stop to coordinate with dancers. I had to laugh watching Kleiber conduct Rosenkavalier. It's unfortunate he conducted so rarely and was so illusive. I suppose you know that his wife was a Slovak ballerina from a remote village to which he went before his death and wrote the goodbye letter right before he died there. they are both buried in that village near their home. Very sad ending. And to answer the question, yes, we absolutely need conductors.

[@peterpawlik2495]

I was not aware of the special difficulties ballet conductors have to deal with but after your explanation it makes sense. But at least I knew about Kleiber‘s wife and that she was a ballet dancer 😄

[@BytomGirl]

@@peterpawlik2495 Thank you

[@BytomGirl]

@@peterpawlik2495 In a ballet are different parts when conductor has to know exactly the beginning lets say of the variation and when the dancer takes his first steps and coordinate with him etc so they have to know not just the score but the steps and the tempo of the dance so the last step would be taken with the last note of the music

[@charlesbarber8166]

Thank you very much for this joyful reading of Kleiber's work. He was and remains unique. You mention how much in demand he was, and that's certainly true. Everyone wanted him -- especially the players. May I add one observation? Study 17:24. Look at the violist seated at 3 o'clock. He has just finished a burning arrival at a structural downbeat. Look at the player's face, and eyes. He is UTTERLY COMMITTED to the work, that conductor, and that moment. Such great players also made possible Kleiber's achievement, and he knew it. Thanks again.

[@peterpawlik2495]

Thank you for your comment and the tipp to look at 17:24. I did and yes: it’s a joy to see him living in the moment, focusing everything he has laserbeam-like on the task at hand in order to bring the music to life. As do orchestra musicians around the world day after day… Thank you again for your comment and your kind words!

[@clt242fg]

I wonder has this (nice) guy ever actually played in an orchestra, or sung in a choir perhaps? That's the only was you get to properly understand how a conductor influences the performance. However much you admire Carlos K (and he was a terrific conductor), it's the music that actually counts. How well does it come across, how is its meaning and character conveyed? That's far more important than the aesthetic beauty of the conductor's gestures!

[@BytomGirl]

How it sounds greatly depends on the conductor. It has little to do with gestures or esthetic beauty. He is not just shaking the baton to look pretty.

[@peterpawlik2495]

Thank you for your comment! First let me thank you for calling me nice although this adjective in this context might actually not be a real compliment - I still like it 😄 I have sung in a choir for 8 years but that has been decades ago and doesn't make me an expert at all. I totally agree with you that it is the music which counts and how well its meaning and character is conveyed. What I tried to show (in the second part of the video) to people who are like me no experts is how infectious and inspiring a conductor can be for musicians and audience. Again thank you for your comment - I really appreciate it

[@philzmusic8098]

A good symphony orchestra doesn't need a conductor, though it can benefit from a great one. But an opera orchestra absolutely needs one, because the orchestra can't hear the singers and the singers can barely hear the orchestra. Without a conductor, chaos would ensue.

[@BlancheBurke-r3t]

As usual, a charming interlude from you, monsieur. Thank you very much (and, gentle reminder, what about that ultimate "sweater-outer" of conductors, Semyon Bychkov?)

[@peterpawlik2495]

Thank you for your comment and the gentle reminder. I am painfully aware that a little video like mine can only scratch the surface. There are soooo many things that would need to be said about that topic but at least I gave it a try - and I am sure there are many more „sweaters“ out there. Levine always rehearsed with a towel around his neck…

[@LazlosPlane]

Kleiber -- too fast. Allegro con brio is not PRESTO. So much is lost at this tempo.

[@peterpawlik2495]

Thank you for your comment. Here we have the same old question again: What is too fast? Or not fast enough? What is presto for one conductor might not be the same presto for the next conductor. I like Kleiber's tempo very much and I think his interpretation fits Beethoven's intentions really well. But that's just my personal opinion, my taste. Which interpretation/which conductor would you recommend? Thank you again for your comment and all my best

[@doktorbell7110]

Sorry, but most of it seems to be your interpretation from his movements.... Kleiber is brilliant, but I am wondering if you should start to comment on goalkeepers movements in football instead of conductors... More substance please.

[@peterpawlik2495]

Thank you for your comment! I am glad that we have the same opinion about Kleiber. You are right that I don't have the kind of substance that you require. I am not a conductor or even a musician. That's why I showed the substantial people/experts and their quotes about conducting in the first half of the video. The second part was about the inspiration-thing. I imagine that when even I as a non musician got so excited and inspired by watching a great conductor at work (and it's not just Kleiber - there are many great videos of many great conductors out there) how much more inspiring must the work with such a great conductor be for an orchestra? Or for singers? My point, and I obviously did a bad job conveying it, is that conducting is more than just beating the rhythm but about the magic, the telepathy, the inspiration for the musicians and the audience (of which I am part of). Again thank you for sharing your opinion with me!

[@hummarstraful]

Very surprised you're not a musician.