Do you need a Military or Civilian compass

There are differences between military and civilian compasses. In my video about the Suunto MB-6 compass, I referred to it as a military compass and, following this, I received lots of messages asking "What's is difference between a military and a civilian compass?" So I thought it would be a good idea to make another video explain what these are.
Of course there is no strict rule separating military and civilian compasses.
You can use both for either hiking or military purposes. However, using the right tool for the right job will make things easier.
Obviously these are just my ideas so have any different insights, please share them in the comments below.
The most obvious differences are that civilians then to use degrees on a compass with a baseplate and the military use mils on compasses without a baseplate and so need a protractor if they are used with a map. Also military compasses will often use tritium instead of luminous paint, so certain sections of the compass will glow all night, not just for a few hours. They’re also built from stronger materials to withstand harsh conditions.
If I were to cut it all down to the absolute basic I may say that civilian compasses are typically designed with ease of use in mind and military compasses, designed for precision.

[@nevek3647]

In less than 19 minutes, I learned about the differences between military and civilian compasses, the Saxon terrace farming practice, the origin of the word “stint”, culinary delicacy of cured beef, and Italian “waffling” that I did not understand. Impressive…most impressive.

[@plunder1956]

I do love your approach and the odd diversion with a rock and interesting foods in alternative languages. I tend to ramble away to myself in Danish as a stumble along, so you go for it.

[@jk5658]

Introduced to map and compass while a cub scout as a civil engineer gave a presentation. Growing up in Central Arizona I acquired USGS topo maps (I have nearly 1000) and using a map and compass I found while orienteering evidence of prehistoric cultures, unique geological features and of course water sources. I am glad I came across your channel it has been very informative, and I enjoy your approach to instruction and education.

[@BrightonandHoveActually]

Using a military compass to throw rocks at things? Sounds like a load of ballistics!

[@Countryboy071]

😂

[@redcar6694]

When I first started my hiking hobby I bought an expensive Silva compass from my local Go Outdoors shop. I couldn’t understand why compass tutorials didn’t make sense until I discovered that I had a military compass displaying NMIL. I couldn’t afford a new one so I learnt to navigate using that. I recently went into the same store and noticed that they were still selling military compasses to unsuspecting customers.

[@TheMapReadingCompany]

You can use mils, grads, degrees, etc. It makes no difference, as long as you and anyone else who needs to, understands the direction and information.

[@redcar6694]

@@TheMapReadingCompanyyes, I just would have liked to know what I was buying rather than struggle through thinking it was me. 🙂

[@ruaz74]

Thank you for another excellent video. Greetings from Portugal .

[@ERICtheLATE]

They could add 1 tier lower and base it on a clock standard 1-12. And add a bitty liquid compass to all watches. Just knowing North and a destination's bearing, is major help when biking or walking in a city, and not waving the smartphone around, when wx can get rough. Great Channel !!! Any cool tips for keeping track of cardinals, in the mind, or excersizes to build that awareness??

[@tomconway8881]

Another good video. Thanks.

[@guillermojacques6671]

Well explained reason for most people to use civilian compass. Would have been nice to see those terraces however. Still, your videos are very entertaining.

[@TheMapReadingCompany]

I did have more film of me walking all over the terraces, but that got edited out. I tend to film around 4 times more than I eventually use. Some people may think I should cut out even more 😂

[@guillermojacques6671]

@@TheMapReadingCompany Your discovery might lead to that area being named after you. All maps of the area would have your name on them!

[@phillipmerritt1428]

Thank you very much for taking the time to make the video. I’ve enjoyed your videos very well they’re very detail. They’ve been helpful and show a lot of stuff that I don’t have any idea what it is, but I’ve been using the compass since 68. Nothing to do with your video but where in England are you at? I don’t want your house address just the general area. Those rocks always seem to be popping out behind you. Thank you very much again

[@TheMapReadingCompany]

That was filmed in Malhamdale - I don't live anywhere near there, I just like the area. Oh it was near where Harry Potted pitched his tent. Google "Malham Cove" "Harry Potter"

[@RimeoftheAncientGamer]

I think you should make a video entitled, "Why are you not buying all the compasses?"

[@dfishborne]

Great video. Thanks!

[@patrickkeoug6070]

Thank you!

[@clintcarpentier2424]

Civilians aren't expected to dive for cover in unforgiving terrain. The design of the civilian compass, make it potentially part of that unforgiving terrain. I wouldn't wanna be caught moaning because it jabbed into a particularly tender part of by body.

[@flaggedowntown]

I have found military compasses to be too expensive for the task of field navigation, unless you need the additional features they provide, used ones often have non functional tritium lights, the older radium filled compasses are too hazardous to open & fix.

[@kn6vbw]

The standard military lensatic compass in the USA is marked in 20 mil demarcations, or 1.25 degrees. They are also only accurate to within +- 40 mils, or +- 5 degrees. The degree markings are demarcated every 5 degrees, with no indication on accuracy. Your average Suunto mirror compass is accurate to within +- 1 degree, according to their website. Other than the difference in the sighting systems used, I can not see a military compass being more accurate than the alternative. Even my Cammenga 3H, purchased from a military source, was out of spec by 20 mils from what they state out of the box. In my opinion, they are just built more for durability and speed of reading the bearing than accuracy.

[@blargo]

The vid gives the impression that the m73 is more accurate since its scale is in mils, though that's obviously a false impression given a little thought. The m73 compass fitted with degree scale would be just as accurate, reading in half degrees instead of however many mils its finest gradation is. Indeed, from the mapreading DOT co DOT uk site, "It is simply not possible, using a hand-held compass, to take a bearing with an accuracy of better than 1 or 2 degrees. Then if you add in calculation errors when adjusting for magnetic declination plus the normal, lack of, walking accuracy when following a compass bearing, you can see why all competent navigators use a compass with Degrees rather than Mils."

[@kn6vbw]

⁠@@blargoThe only way to get the true precision of mils is through the use of a theodolite. Otherwise, one is no more accurate than the other, for practical purposes. I have found that other than the use of a quality transit compass, civilian compasses are more accurate than the typical military compass. Which like you said is pretty much a mute point when using for general land navigation.

[@redf7209]

Regardless of function a lot of outdoor gear gets called 'military' for marketing purposes as its associated with quality, function and seriousness even if the products do not deserve it

[@geoffupton]

excellent waffle! excellent vid... interesting all round! pay the rock more! 😂😂😂 kind of off vid question, what do you think of wrist compasses? are they useless?

[@TheMapReadingCompany]

I can't say as I've never used a wrist compass, sorry.

[@Sandra-dt4ec]

Excellent video!

[@750triton]

Volume turned all the way up, system volume 100% but this video and a couple of others today have been a mouse fart above a whisper. Anybody got any advice? All other videos work as they should

[@toddshook1765]

I think I get interested in the history plus what’s for lunch. I love a unique sandwich. Thanks

[@tomtom4405]

Civilian compasses worry about health and safety, military ones are tough nuts who just want to get the job done and tritium glow

[@user-rcghjewqw]

15:30 it would be worth taking 10 measurements, better by different people and note how different they are. My bet is they will be +/- 10 mils ( +/- 0.57⁰)

[@34428]

I’ve likely missed previous posts on this channel so bear with my twopenneth worth. 6400:360 - greater accuracy for navigation and fire missions. For most hill and mountain navigation, I find it quicker and easier to use degrees and a silva type compass…

[@MoneSeventh]

When did the British military change to mils? My grandfathers Great War ‘marching’ compass is in degrees. As a cadet in the 1960’s, I don’t remember the prismatic compasses we used were mils, but my memory is shot. Did the airforce and navy ever consider changing? As my waffle, I use the ‘plus two minus two or minus two plus two’ to find the reciprocal of a (degree) bearing, I’ve never understood how this simple maths thing works, can you explain? I wish you were a teacher at my school!

[@TheMapReadingCompany]

The + 2 - 2 mnemonic is used to get a back bearing (reverse azimuth). If the bearing is more than 180 + (add) 2 * 100 then - (subtract) 2 * 10 If the bearing is more than 180 - (subtract) 2 2 *100 then + (add) 2 * 10. For example if you have a bearing of: 123 + 200 = 323 then - 20 = back bearing of 303 345 - 200 = 145 then + 20 = back bearing of 165

[@petescull371]

perfect - thanks

[@davespain7716]

Great video thanks, it has to be proper Crumbly Lancashire cheese and cucumber for me, bon appetite.

[@mihailvormittag6211]

👍

[@GiacomoCatenazzi]

Aspettiamo il video in Italiano, ma non devi gettare i sassi in Valtellina (patria della Bresaola) altrimenti.... corri per ore a recuperarlo)

[@MorbinNecrim86]

I will take the rock over all that over hightech dribble anyday.

[@Joseph-iu6ip]

Dude throws a rock and discovers ancient structures.

[@nikob5899]

That sounds like a breaking news headline!! 😂

[@damag3plan]

That's England mate

[@pauloalvesdesouza7911]

"KZbin channels will have green screens, AI animations... I get a rock!" You sir, are a legend.

[@stpetie7686]

Given the choice, I'll take the rock every time.

[@damag3plan]

But a as you could see it was a fine rock!

[@danieljohansson8387]

You are one of the most likeable persons on KZbin, thanks for giving me a smile on a bad day and educating me at the same time!

[@vanwykwd]

My thoughts exactly!

[@nikob5899]

My thoughts too. A legend. ❤

[@dirkscheidemann3127]

No Lasers, no AI, no BS....just plain ol` teaching stuff in a wonderful, straight-from-the-heart fashion. Civilization came from people teaching their audience like that. And from the audience being able to tell the difference between teachers and posers. I come here frequently to reassure myself that the old concept still works. Thank you, Sir. Dirk from Germany

[@SFUndertaker]

I love this channel. As a retired US Special Forces soldier, I’ve been using maps and compasses for a very long time. There is, of course, always something new to learn. At this point in my life, however, I am watching you for pure entertainment. You are awesome! Keep on waffling and providing such of great fun and educational content.

[@jrrarglblarg9241]

Come for a compass review. Stayed for the waffles. Thanks for showing us around! You don’t need green screen, ai or animations to be awesome.

[@Hector-vx5yc]

Hi map reading company!! Thank you so much!! Once again you took me on an awesome journey!! It felt like I was right there with you!! My Friend you’re full of outstanding knowledge, history, science and an amazing instructor!! I was actually able to understand between military and civilian compasses. I’ll stick with the civilian compass, no need to throw rocks 😂 by the way that sandwich looks delicious sure hope it tastes good!! Be well my friend!! Looking forward to seeing your next adventure 👍🏿💯❤️ from Washington State 🇺🇸

[@TheMapReadingCompany]

@Hector-vx5yc thank you for your kind words.

[@daghaalsuii]

"I'm waffling in different tongues!" Wayne, you're the best!

[@RobertBasile-m6x]

Let me see if I got this straight. A military compass will be useful in WW IV when battles will be fought with rocks and sticks. Until then, I can save a bit of money and buy a recreational compass?

[@GabrielBeddingfield]

Nice video! One thing not mentioned is the role of mils in math. By using mils, you can use the small angle approximation to calculate angle adjustments without needing a calculator or slide rule. Suppose you throw the rock with a trebuchet. You've used your rule-of-thumb to estimate that it is 500m away. Your first shot lands 20m to the left. 20m/500m = 0.04. Using degrees you would need to calculate arcsin(.04). But using radians and the small angle approximation, .040 radians is the angle to adjust. You turn your trebuchet 40 mils to the right and try again.

[@Countryboy071]

Yes, but as I mentioned above is this really needed ? Great points anyway 👍

[@GabrielBeddingfield]

@@Countryboy071 If you're artillery or mortors, yes!

[@Countryboy071]

@@GabrielBeddingfield you can also put in ballistic trajectory., add symbology overlays also, this is vital to finding that pub you vaguely remember years ago when you staggered out drunk as a newt ! 😆👍

[@Countryboy071]

@@GabrielBeddingfield just interested, do you recommend using "rule of thumb " and approximation when working this idea using maths? I understand your comments but really is this the best way ? As having worked in this field, I like to hear comments. We are allways learning something new ! 🤓👍

[@GabrielBeddingfield]

@@Countryboy071 I'm sure modern military will use a range finder instead of the rule of thumb.

[@ralphr9218]

I prefer a military compass since my activities take me above 2200 meters in temperatures below -30C. Some fluid filled compasses will develop a bubble when exposed to extreme weather. Thank you for the video, Wayne.

[@paddor]

Yours doesn’t use fluids?

[@ralphr9218]

@@paddor My Cammenga 3H Tritium doesn't contain fluid.

[@thevikas_com]

a naturalist does not have to apologise for going to other topics. it is him we are coming to see. :)

[@petersmithm9]

During my time in the British Army we only ever used mils. Be that navigating or lobbing heavy pieces of metal someplace. Even my personal Silva compass was in mils. It didn't matter what the officers used as they always got lost !

[@darrensteele7880]

@@petersmithm9 Rupert's 🤦🏻🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@jeffreyalmond7376]

Thank you, fascinating as ever. My father was ex artillery, and used to throw rocks at things with a considerable degree (or mil) of accuracy. Hope you enjoyed your artisan sandwich. As ever keep up the good work.

[@robmidwales8513]

I'm agree 100% with the sandwiches, I've been walking the Wales Coast Path since 2020 (not all the time!) and a flamin' good homemade butty always makes you feel good, especially when the weather is inclement. My favourite is Welsh topside with a punchy salad. All the best, Rob.

[@SomeDude.1117]

Your historical ramblings just earned you a subscription. I love that you're brimming with useful and interesting knowledge.

[@trevormegson7583]

A true and welcome Polymath and Polyglot. So entertaining and inspiring. Thank You.

[@derbyshirewalker]

The entertainment value of this channel is off the scale.

[@IulianMihaiu]

This channel is just marvelous.

[@simongee8928]

Apparently the Black Death was originally referred to as the Great Death but some Victorian oddball decided that referring to it as Black was more dramatic and the term stuck - ! 😅

[@Farlig69]

8:23 "military" 😝

[@igrim4777]

14:34 in an area with terraced farming you can see the contour lines on the ground. :)

[@LA_Viking]

I absolutely love bresaola! Anyway, in the US military, compasses used for land navigation are calibrated in degrees. The cannon cockers (artillery) and some engineering units use mils. If you go to any surplus store or military contractor and purchase a standard issue GI lensatic compass with tritium dial, it will be in degrees. I own a high accuracy military M2 pocket transit. Mine uses degrees although I believe it is also available in mils and quadrants, the latter for civil land surveying. I have been hiking/climbing/paddling for nearly six decades. I've never used anything but degrees. Incidentally, my undergraduate college degree is in cartography-mapping sciences. As for positional systems, I exclusively use the UTM coordinate system (civilian adaptation of the military system). UTM is a planer system instead of the spherical system of Lat/Lon and is far easier to work with and more accurate in the field. All US large scale topographic maps, even the hideous orthophotoquads, have a UTM overlay. You should do a video on UTM if you haven't already.

[@royblackburn1163]

I'm afraid on this side of the pond our map's use the ordnance survey grid reference and have the lat/lon overlay.

[@rchas1023]

The only compass I knew for many years was an ex British Army oil-filled compass ( and 1" OS maps ). They served me well.

[@user-rcghjewqw]

10:25 no need for triginometry here. Length of an arc is all what is needed. 10000m* 0.017453 ,( where 0.017453 is pi/180) which is indistinguishable. Just remember that one degree is 0.0174... and it is more than enough. The problem is that you just cannot measure angels , especialy small ones with sufficient precision with any compass design even if its scale would have tenth or hundredth of degree

[@unixpro2]

I loved the side trip to terraces as well as the lesson on compasses

[@deskgamesix]

So isn't that rock actually a "Rolling Stone"?

[@TheMapReadingCompany]

Oooooo. I should have thought of that 😊

[@Seamus3051]

Your waffles are most educational , and entertaining. I've learned more British, Anglo Saxon & viking history,as well as physics, geography, meterology, ad infinitum from your delightful waffles than has ever been presented in a classroom, while being delightfully entertained. Cheers.

[@inregionecaecorum]

A button compass is a military compass in the right situation for escape and evasion. I have a fancy Silva Ranger mirror compass, and to be honest it is overkill for most things I ever need a compass for which is mostly knowing which way is north and orienting a map. The base plate compass is good enough for that as it is not as if I am calling in an artillery strike or aiming my howitzer. The mirror comes in handy for other things though like getting a lash out of your eye :)

[@xavierpaquin]

I haven't watched yet, but trust me, I don't need a military compass 😂

[@captainscarlet6758]

The way this country is going, don't rule it out 😂

[@parlorseries4864]

Wow, this video ended up being way more fascinating than I expected going in. Thank you for all the "waffling"!

[@AnalogueHacker]

Another great video....I'm sure this is a daft question but I was wondering what your thoughts are on the Silva Expedition NATO/MOD compass, especially as you recently gave the civilian version top marks 👍👍👍

[@Navigator-apex]

Great video as always and very simple. I am an engineer and use both types of compasses and both have their purpose as you had mentioned. I do use the Cammenga when I am at high altitudes but for general hunting and hiking I use the baseplate. I had used the Suunto KB-14 in the past when we were building powerlines and this compass has 1/3 degree accuracy and 1/2 degree graduations. Cheers and thank you for making these fun videos.

[@BuckMckawtheotherone]

Good sandwich, Wayne. Never tried that Italian meat yet, but with Montreal Smoked meat (not the same, I know) and Feta, grapes and fresh parsley on rye, I can see it happening. The Suunto I bought last week is fun. I am practicing finding distance to my destinations. This may serve me well from shore to see how far an island is and how wide so I can canoe to it and camp. Yes, look at the map, use a scale..etc, but it would just be fun to verify with a map. It's how these old explorers mapped our country (Canada) using basic tools and a big brain full of numbers. Finding declination for an area using Polaris verifies the maps, and also is good practice.

[@johnfisher9816]

Great fun! Well done. In the mid-1960's, my father was responsible for testing and recommending new equipment for the infantry of the Canadian Army. He chose the Silva Ranger, which is still in use, along with its Suunto cousins. I've always enjoyed because of the declination offset - calculate, set, and forget. Naturally, these compasses are in NATO mils. On the other hand, the Royal Canadian Artillery stayed with the precision of compasses like the G150 military prismatic for its rock throwing, for obvious reasons. p.s. my Suunto MB-6 Global in mils arrived last week. I hope that you got your cut!!!

[@Juanlu.]

Muy clarificador y con ese sentido del humor tan tuyo que convierte tus explicaciones en muy amenas. Gracias. Saludos desde España!

[@rickitynick4463]

Hello MRC! Greetings from Vieques, Puerto Rico.

[@TheMapReadingCompany]

Hello there!

[@brendancollins6097]

I do this, it gives me a margin of error if don’t have declination angle. Rarely use it anyway. 6400mls divided by 360deg = 17.7m at 1Km. Your vid’s are great.

[@Єнот-т4й]

Now that was some too quality waffle about the way we mould the landscape around us. Never, ever, EVER apologise for the waffle. It's part of the appeal of the channel. Part of the reason we're here... The Babyloniabs used 360 degrees in the circle because 360 is a "highly divisible" number, it has a lot of factors.

[@markoconnor6801]

SPOT ON,great lesson as always,keep them coming buddy.

[@seanofthebread86]

Hey, I really enjoy your videos! Just a heads up, your audio mix is only sending sound through the left channel. Check the video with headphones.

[@lightningrider2508]

Ohhh Brother you are a gift. I believe you should be given a title! Sir Wafflelot, OW. ( Order of the Waffle ) Keep Calm and Waffle On! Three cheers to you Sir!!!

[@r.mercado9737]

Whoa! Outstanding! Talking Italiano!

[@RogerMassicotte]

Now I know what a mil is. Thank you. Your rock!😊 Now we need to know why English people turned mille into thousand.

[@Rekaert]

I've certainly used a tatty old lensatic compass for decades, and I've never had a great deal of difficulty, but I guess it's one of those things where I may be ignorant of a better tool for the job, and just because the tool I have works, I never really looked into options. It's funny, because I could have been using the worst option all this time. 😄

[@davidbarrass]

Lovely bits of limestone, I would guess that you're somewhere between Settle and Grassington

[@darrensteele7880]

Mr Beast of navigation!

[@nikob5899]

I love this!!!❤

[@YeoryiosSakales]

Could you make a video about remagnetising the needle? I accidentally messed my compass today by apparently having it too close to my phone, thank god it wasn't an expensive model

[@LanceNYC]

Why don't the military compasses add a baseplate, eliminating the need to carry a protractor too?

[@INSOLESandLACES]

Didn't know that mils came from rads due to the rounding. Brilliant knowledge put in an easy to understand and entertaining manner. Missed a trick, you should have taken a pie instead of a sandwich.😂

[@jaym8027]

Military linches or civilian linches?

[@androidrebel]

I'm from Lombardy and I liked your videos already, but now I'm a true worshipper! 😎 If you happen to come to Italy keep in mind we also have some amazing mountains in Lombardy and I'll be happy to give you directions to some great spots 👍

[@camiondecamion7541]

I don't know what I enjoyed more - the explanation or the waffling!

[@lnitram]

It seems the audio of this (great like always) video seems to be just on the left channel. I watch it with headphones and there is no sound on the right side. This was the case on another video of this channel. Would be great if this could be fixed

[@doughobbs7706]

Italian waffle...there are no limits to how cool yout videos are!

[@simarkeenlyside]

Fascinating and thanks so much for a traffic video

[@colinpratt859]

Never stop waffling, love it.

[@j.nutzmann4363]

Thank You.

[@neby_nebs]

I find that side notes like that make learning much more interesting and enjoyable. Who would've known! Now you've taught countless others a tidbit of ancient history.

[@justindawson3428]

multilingual waffling with a bit of information, does it get any better than that?

[@paddlerpaul2577]

I love your your video's. You remind me of the gentleman who taught me to read maps. I was 18 and very unfit. He was in his mid sixty's and fit as a fiddle and also full of anecdotes as well. Thanks Paul.

[@Alfonso-ru4ke]

MUY INTERESANTE, GRACIAS. 😊

[@Martycycleman]

ora riesco a capirti e tutto è chiaro, chow

[@markshoub7335]

Absolutely loved your history lesson!

[@r.mercado9737]

Keeping it real!

[@jasntrace1971]

Great vid mate!!! The sandwich looks delicious. That is a great description of the difference between just having to travel to a different location with degrees and having to accurately throw "rocks" etc. at a different location with Mils. Jolly good fun to watch. Just if anyone is interested, there are 17.777recurring Mils to 1 degree. Regards, Jas.

[@TheMapReadingCompany]

Honestly, just give it a try. Sliced grapes. I didn't think so, but it really does give a butty that "something" - oh I got the idea from BBC Posh Butties. And it works 😊

[@jimjasper9851]

Can I have one of your rocks please?

[@glidezilla]

I'd be disappointed if you didn't waffle, it's what makes this KZbin channel my favourite, need to say that gorgeous-looking sarnie, is a bap.

[@theproclaimer4000]

Loving the history lessons !!

[@WIGGER_AESTHETIC_031]

Please keep waffling. I like maps, but your knowledge of history intrigues me even more.