Do you worry over phase issues? How bad can they be?

So many people put so many audio problems down to 'phase issues'. Are they right to worry? Are phase issues a real thing? And if phase issues are real, how do they happen? Answered in this video. Ft. Betty, Debbie & Audio Phil.
My video on comb filtering - • What is comb filtering...
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[@edwardkane7708]

My cheek bones ache from smiling for the length of this video. I’m betting they’re not in phase.

[@jimdavis5230]

In order to solve all phase issues you need to employ semi-critical quasi inverse didactic convolution. To determine the amount of convolution required you need to calculate the complex impedance of a non-resonant dipole located in 70% curved space and 3.2 parsecs away from a third order catastrophe cusp. Then use the conjugate of the complex impedance and multiply it by the reciprocal of the impedance of free space. Best results from this process are obtained by carrying it out ten seconds in the future and then correlating it back to the present. This can be achieved by using non-linear inverse time regression techniques which will also cancel any time dilation distortions.

[@AudioMasterclass]

You’ve cracked it.

[@stevesmyth4982]

Dude! You forgot to mention the flux capacitors in the PSU.

[@jimdavis5230]

@@stevesmyth4982 Yes I did forget to mention flux capacitors however, when I think about such things I get a nasty headache about 10 inches above my head. I consulted my Doctor and he prescribed tablets to take 10 minutes before I wake up. Just the other day I went down the road to look for myself and when I got back before I'd returned, they had kept me there whilst I was away. Sadly it goes like that when you've been at it for a while.

[@larsstecken]

😂

[@arnone1862]

I did this very calculation while Venus was in retrograde, and now the sound coming from my speakers is doppleganged... 🤔

[@zloboslav_]

I don't worry about phase issues when I'm listening to the single speaker of my cheap phone while sitting on the ceramic throne of wisdom.

[@AudioMasterclass]

The natural habitat of the true audiophile.

[@ronaldmcdonald2456]

Actually, good thing you brought this up because it works very well as a weight reduction scheme. Which is to say, I've spent the better part of the afternoon laughing my ass off! 🤣

[@10sassafras]

I’m listening on headphones and the distance between them just increased thanks to this video.

[@AudioMasterclass]

I’m happy to expand your experience of audio.

[@s_r_v]

it seems obvious that if you listen to 2 channel stereo it sounds best if you sit at an equal distance from the speakers and you've cabled them up with equal lengths of cable and they are placed the same distance away from a wall etc. etc. But who has a perfectly symmetrical room and even if we did would SWMBO let us put our speakers where we want? But you don't have to have audiophile ears to hear if you've connected one of your speakers the wrong way around though, it just sounds a bit odd... I guess though that asymmetrical room reflections cause loads of phase issues... and phase issues can be caused by a crossover circuit? It's amazing we hear anything at all 😉

[@paulmcdonough9595]

I believe Phil nailed it!

[@AudioMasterclass]

He certainly tried to nail something but his language skills are close but not perfect.

[@SubTroppo]

@@AudioMasterclass Nailing: I'm sure somebody might be prepared to provide a link to AI avatar on avatar Ugandan discussions, but I'm not going to go looking for it.

[@humblestever24]

@@AudioMasterclass Look into yourself

[@kyleo2113]

The biggest phase issue is knowing when it matters and when it doesn’t. What does that sound like? I guess it sounds like a lot of time wasted obsessing on something that may or may not matter.

[@artysanmobile]

Hearing comments, not just here but for my entire career, makes obvious 99.9%, minimum, of sound mixers, hifi enthusiasts, recording engineers, haven’t a clue what phase even is. It’s a ‘tag’ word, raise your hand if you don’t like it. Why don’t they just ask. Honestly it is not voodoo and it is not good/bad either. Phase ‘issue’ is what gives us equalization, rather than the other way round. It gives us directional cues that make stereophonic sound so much phun. It is a large part of what our head does to make our hearing so acute. I’m glad you’re giving this attention. I doubt one video will be enough.

[@AudioMasterclass]

Looking at my YT statistics, I'm surprised that this topic isn't getting as much attention as I expected. I'm sure I will return to it, probably in a more sensational manner to draw in the people who need the knowledge most.

[@artysanmobile]

@@AudioMasterclass I’m sure you’ll find that magic bullet but it won’t be easy. It might involve some real purty plug-in display to show such things as interference and reinforcement, stuff anyone can hear. Good luck with it. You will be doing a great service.

[@TheAntibozo]

Thank you for another excellent and entertaining video. 🐿

[@maneamarius8389]

I admire your opinion .Are simple and honest.Thank you for everything.

[@maneamarius8389]

Greetings from ROMANIA.

[@ricktotty2283]

I have been trying to explain this to my friends and family for years. I purchased a pair B&o M100s in 1977. Times alined and phase coherent, which I still have. They have long since gone dark, probably because of the electrolytic capacitors. The cabinets are too beautiful to get rid of them. I have since discovered that the fewer the drivers the less coherency problems you have. Mofi source point 10s does really good job of solving that problem. I have a Yamaha YSP 4000 uses phasing to control It’s projection beans. Not a perfect system but as you say, it’s good enough. Love your content.

[@StevenHendershott]

And I think most people, sadly, ignore the biggest phase issues they are likely to have with their stereo systems...the ROOM! Decent room treatment to tame the effects of reflections can make a big difference in the mid and high frequency ranges. And lower bass id often the biggest challenge, since those wavelengths are much longer...hence subwoofer phase controls or the ever popular "subwoofer crawl"to determine placement.

[@CarlVanDoren]

Yes, Siree Bob! Set subs at 180 Vicoustic Wavewood Diffuser Ultra 😊

[@artysanmobile]

My only concern about phase issues is “is there enough of it to give me the EQ I need?”

[@fredashay]

I believe there was a manufacturer that invented a thing they called Sonic Holography. Basically, what they did was sense where on the soundstage a particular waveform appeared, and then delayed that waveform by a few milliseconds (deliberate phase issue?), and then recombined it all and pushed it out to the speakers. They had to have been doing a Fourier transform in real time to do this. I denno. I just like my music to sound good, with deep bass I can feel, clear highs that I can barely hear, no crosstalk, wide dynamic range, no hiss or pops or crackles or rumble or wow or flutter. Do that, and I'm happy.

[@cars654]

Carver had a Sonic Holography pre-amp in the 80s .

[@fredashay]

@@cars654 Yes! Thank you for reminding me! It was, indeed, Carver.

[@shpater]

Thank You for bringing this important issue. The phase issues you are referring to are limited to constant level infinite tones. There is a whole world of "Time Arrival" issues best indicated by an "impulse response" test. i.e .time alignment between the tweeter and the midrange. Same goes for the effect of a "heavy" low pass filter or a signal equalization on the harmonics of the signal vs its fundamental frequency.

[@razisn]

You are looking at the same issue only from a different frame of reference.

[@shpater]

@razisn You are correct but never the less, it is important to see the time perspective as well.

[@razisn]

@@shpater The time perspective is inherent however one looks into it. Ask old Mr. Fourier about it.

[@adotopp1865]

I suppose I am an audiophile. I have test lps and cds with examples of in and out of stereo phasing. The only phase issue i may have comes from getting red and black speaker wires mixed on one speaker. You can clearly hear it in the stereo image.

[@elwap0]

Well that just great....so now i need to figure out ...on the ear buds i listening on ...if there is a setting in the app for ear separation and tone sensitivity of different Frequencies In each ear....this might take some time...by the way thank you for adding to my confusion Phil

[@slevengrungus]

we need to cause more phase issues, more comb filtering, more room reflections. Do your listening in the parking garage of a shopping center, preferably with 2 sets of stereo speakers, two in front of you, two behind you. Also put on a set of open back headphones with no time alignment. Only then will you understand the true intention of the artist. For extra grit, add a subwoofer that's ever so slightly distorting. We have fallen to perfectionism, we can no longer appreciate the beauty of what sound does

[@AudioMasterclass]

While they may be far from the perfect audio experience, there are such things as interesting audio experiences. I think you have just invented one.

[@tyeadel]

Line arrays will produce phase effects as frequencies go in and out of phase. They are the audio equivalent of diffraction gratings in optics.

[@fredygump5578]

Worrying about "phase issues" is on the same level as needing expensive RCA cables and speaker cables... (But if they care so much about sound quality, why are they using RCA cables?)

[@cars654]

RCA connectors = Real crappy audio !

[@humblestever24]

Dig the next phase baby. Hendrix.

[@stevenewtube]

At 4:00 mins, yes most definitely I heard the difference. I could hear a distortion (phase distortion) in you vocal that wasn’t there with the absorber back in place. This can also happen when recording a vocalist or instrument when there are large music stands and sheets of paper in the surrounding area. This is a huge subject and a barrel of worms. Cool!

[@imqqmi]

If you have a surround sound setup or quad speaker stereo, the distances can be set (wrong) in the receiver, phase issues unless you have space enough to put them equidistant from each other (though pointing the surround speakers toward each other, phase issues). This can result in a stereo center image that's hard to erm center, or there's an audible hole in the sound stage where no sound is coming from which sounds odd as if one ear is plugged up. Putting speakers close to a wall, lower frequencies bounce on the back wall (behind speaker) and phase issues. High frequency sounds bounce at the front wall (behind you) wall, phase issues. Speaker drivers that are offset in distance from each other, phase issues. It's just better to listen to mono one would think lol, just a center channel speaker is enough. Maybe one day a brain link can induce music directly into your synapses without phase issues ;)

[@TheAntibozo]

In a room with reflections, all bets are off.

[@humblestever24]

And all rooms have reflections. But not all Hi fi magazines sell rooms.

[@bobkitchin8346]

This is the reason stereo can't accurately replicate a live performance. It's ok if the source is center stage and the listener is sitting midway between the speakers. The sound paths from the source to the two mics, and the paths from the speakers to the ears are nearly identical and the phase difference is small. Now in a live performance, if the source is stage left or right, there will be small put noticeable difference in the path length and phase. This is how we can tell the direction of a sound and therefore sounds natural to us. But with stereo, the path length differences (and thus the phase difference) can be much much larger, thus causing cancellation at certain frequencies. The resulting sound may be pleasant to listen to, but one can't say it sounds "natural". And if it can't sound natural, what's the point of being an audiophile?

[@jackhreha4907]

As i listen to the dust and dirt rake over my old Jon Baldry Lp IT AIN"T EASY, Does a scotch and soda have phase issues? Best Regards Jack.

[@ronaldmcdonald2456]

FINALLY!!! Somebody who's got the phasing right!

[@kennydelaney7299]

Wonderful topic. It turns out I have been doing a lot of thinking about this very topic over the last few days. I am planning for some new components, a couple of monoblock amps. In the new configuration, I will be using my DAC as the pre-amp, using both balanced and single ended outputs simultaneously, both are volume controlled. The balanced will feed the monoblocks, SE to the subwofders. With te balanced outputs being a differential differential signal, how will the phase align with the single ended? Will they be in phase, 180 out of phase, 90 degrees out of phase or something else? I have been ruminating over this for a week or two.

[@AudioMasterclass]

Tricky one, but I suspect it will be down to the design. It isn't unknown for different types of outputs to be inverted with respect to each other. It will either work or it won't, but if it doesn't then swapping the signal conductors of the balanced outputs inside one of the connectors will fix it. Free advance comes without guarantee.

[@kennydelaney7299]

@AudioMasterclass I figured about the same. Either flip the phase switch on the sub or don't. It dors however fascinate me, and I'm trying to get a better understanding. Thanks for all the good videos and fodder to keep me awake at night. :)

[@AudioMasterclass]

@@kennydelaney7299 Don't forget to worry about absolute phase too 😀

[@geoff37s57]

Phase differences in the sound that hits our ears happens constantly in everyday life. We manage to subconsciously deal with these effects. I am sure we can also deal with similar effects from our stereo system without worrying about it.

[@AudioMasterclass]

I'd have to disagree with that. There are few instances in real life where we hear the same sound from two differently placed sources. We have evolved for pretty much everything we hear in real life but we have not yet evolved not to hear problems in stereo. May the worrying continue.

[@geoff37s57]

@@AudioMasterclass That’s not true. Been walking down the street we may hear a car horn directly from the vehicle and the same sound reflected off a shop window, only delayed and phase shifted.

[@AudioMasterclass]

@@geoff37s57 It's not the same sound, it's delayed. If there's anything in real life that's set up like stereo speakers I'd be interested to hear of it. And hear it.

[@geoff37s57]

@@AudioMasterclass It is the same sound. The window reflection is not an illusion, it is a delayed train of pressure waves. The L speaker could be the horn and the R speaker the window. It is the delay that produces phase shift. I don’t see any conflict with your video.

[@humblestever24]

@@AudioMasterclass You are correct again Master because so called stereo is an artificial construct right from the word go.

[@FlyBoyGrounded]

So, what about micing up a snare drum with two identical mics, one on top pointing downwards and one underneath pointing upwards? Or standing at a mic between a pair of speakers (mono) that are directly facing each other?

[@AudioMasterclass]

Your drum mic setup is common. The lower mic needs to be phase inverted. I'd need more explanation of your second setup to advise.

[@evenblackercrow4476]

Really the only time I've noticed any phase issue is between subwoofer(s) and main speakers, and then the phase issue might be propoerly passed on to the neighbors.

[@georgebliss964]

The distance between your ears certainly has an effect at high frequencies just by turning your head sideways.

[@PaulHaussler-bs1qi]

What, me worry about phase shift??? Not really... Are my speakers time aligned? No, they were built in 1954! How about the subwoofer? Ours is an older one without any adjustment for phase. At least it has a decent crossover, or so I think. In our modest townhouse the sound is fine at least with good recordings. The main speakers are JBL C38's with 075 tweeters and D131 woofers. They have been in the family since new and still play perfectly (oops, probably should not have keyed this). Phil said it best! Paul H. Huntington Beach, CA USA

[@EricB256]

Don't bass reflex speakers also mix signals with a delayed version of themselves?

[@AudioMasterclass]

This is not the only reason speakers should be open baffle or closed box.

[@philipkershaw7918]

Well, it had to happen sooner or later. Phil making no attempt whatever to disguise his gibberish! But is it?

[@AudioMasterclass]

It does make sense. I don’t think it’s exactly accurate but there is meaning in his words. Someone will be first to translate.

[@philipkershaw7918]

@@AudioMasterclass The reference to the top of a mountain leads me to think that Phils lingo is Sanskrit. Now I do know a tiny smattering of Sanskrit from living on an ashram for a while many, many years ago. But all I can remember are the words: Namaste - a greeting, samadhi - a sanctuary [I think] and pranayama - pertaining to exercise. None of these however are any help in deciphering Phil's not so gibberish! Haha. Come on, someone else have a go!!!

[@AudioMasterclass]

@@philipkershaw7918 This is going to be difficult due to Phil's incomplete understanding of Sanskrit and his pronunciation. But there is meaning behind what he said and I'll let commenters ponder further for a while.

[@traildoggy]

Dedicated listeners will want to consider a surgical 're-balancing' of their ear canals so that these variances can be removed from their appreciation of audio coherence.

[@connorduke4619]

I could only understand you after you said " ok done that". Does that mean I am sensitive to phase issues?

[@AudioMasterclass]

If you can hear a difference then it means that you can hear that comb filtering is less with the absorber.

[@stevengagnon4777]

I solve my phase issues by deliberately creating many more.

[@AudioMasterclass]

You and Phil would get on well together.

[@RUfromthe40s]

is it related with linear phase or where to the sound flows?

[@AudioMasterclass]

Minimum phase and linear phase are types of filters. I made a video a while ago and I may revisit this topic in the future.

[@RUfromthe40s]

@@AudioMasterclass thank you , i´ll look for the already posted video. Do you have any info about 1980 decrease of quality in all brands components catalogs ?the most expensive ones seem good but the regular ones lost a lot, the sansui A-7 litle amp. still made with the front in aluminium but soundwise is so ridiculous inferior to the 70´s or 79 similar reference

[@AudioMasterclass]

@@RUfromthe40s I have no information as of now but topics like this are always under review.

[@BobGeogeo]

What does Phil think of George Harrison's sitar work?

[@AudioMasterclass]

Phil loves the sitar but he wonders whether George is really authentic. He's currently developing an AI to perform ragas in the style of Bootsy Collins.

[@humblestever24]

Rajas ? Bootsy ? Come on young fellow, move on.

[@supergwizzo]

Omg 😮😅😊

[@Douglas_Blake_579]

I suppose we shouldn't tell these guys that a difference in distance from ears to speakers of only 1/4 inch could place the entire top two octaves of the audio bandwidth out of phase.

[@pompeymonkey3271]

It's worth noting that the average distance between human ears (approximately 20 cm) is half a wavelength at 850 Hz. "Phase error" is a crucial property of binaural hearing. Imagine trying to work out which direction your crying offspring is in just by the amplitude variations between your ears... The intricate shape of our ears coupled with our brain's enormous capacity to sort and filter the relevant information is nothing short of amazing. Disclaimer: The following content is educational and, by no means in any way, not intended as advice or direction: "If you really ever want to experience the incoming sound at the "feed point" of our ears completely decoupled from the brain's interpretation, do some LSD or magic mushrooms. That's the only place where I've ever heard phase differences in sound."

[@AudioMasterclass]

I don't have any moral issues with your educational content. I just don't fancy it.

[@philipkershaw7918]

Further, due to synesthesthetic effects it is possible to actually 'see' phase variation.

[@AudioMasterclass]

@@philipkershaw7918 I fancy it even less now.

[@philipkershaw7918]

@@AudioMasterclass Good man! It is true to note that my survival into old age is despite the very occasional act of youthful stupidity.

[@pompeymonkey3271]

@@AudioMasterclass It was a long time ago. lol Also, I had no no framework to interpret what I "heard" until I watched your video. It was something I'd completely forgotten about. It was just an "effect". Now it makes a lot more sense. Thanks for last piece in this particular personal "jigsaw puzzle". :)

[@Roosville1]

90 Degrees, Quadrature. :- )

[@AudioMasterclass]

Congratulations, you win!

[@Roosville1]

​I find practically the worst offender is when recording an acoustic guitar fitted with an internal pickup. Mine is fitted with an internal microphone, and combined magnetic pickup. Externally I also have a feed from a large condenser. I have to insert delay from the internal feed, otherwise the phase difference between the guitar pickup and mic is horrific. I get the balance using a percussive sound and then looking at the time difference in the recording as a good start. Group delay is a measure of the rate-of-phase-change over frequency, so potentially you can have phase difference, and I imagine that below a certain us/Hz limit, it wouldn’t have an audible impact.

[@AudioMasterclass]

@@Roosville1 This is exactly it - a sound or signal mixing with a delayed version of itself. Considering that sound travels around a foot, 30 cm if you prefer, in one millisecond this is easily in the zone where you will get audible phase cancellations without correction.

[@oijans]

If you don't have a problem, create a phase issue.

[@marxman00]

I identify as phase neutral

[@BrianHall-Oklahoma]

It is just as important as the jitter BS. Not at all.

[@eugenepohjola258]

Howdy. With all due respect. What is the point ??? Much Regards.

[@AudioMasterclass]

The point is in the video. If you can't see it, I can't help you.

[@eugenepohjola258]

@@AudioMasterclass Howdy again. With all due respect again. I assume then the point is either the statement there are phase shifts everywhere, or a conclusion that phase shifting in audio gear has little meaning. If the latter I tend to agree with apprehension. I believe that shifting harmonics so that slew rate becomes a limiting factor has some meaning. I do think though this is mostly theoretical having little true meaning. Much Regards again.

[@EricIolo]

I dont understand any of this sorry. I understand that volume is variable and can be quiet or loud. Audio has bass mid-range and treble. Lastly there is a stereo balance. That's about it I think.

[@AudioMasterclass]

Congratulations on your happy life.

[@AutistCat]

Audio Phil looks just like Neil Oliver

[@AudioMasterclass]

Should've gone to SpecSavers. IMHO.

[@humblestever24]

Are you blind? He doesn't have Oliver's haunted Scottish look and being from California it looks like he's had a wash recently.

[@nabman_]

Phil has more serious issues...😂😂😂

[@ericdere]

Yeah, unless a skull is hollow, headphones should not have phase issues. I'm guessing brain tissue would muffle any sound

[@AudioMasterclass]

Depends how much brain tissue you have.

[@albanana683]

Relative electrical phase difference between stereo speaker drivers - swapped +/- on one channel only - is definitely a thing. Bass frequency drops off, treble can sound "odd", to me at least. But anyone who claims that absolute phase is a thing, is delusional.

[@AudioMasterclass]

Yes I skipped this one because I see it as an inversion issue rather than my main argument for this video, although I did mention inversion briefly just to make sure it was in there. I'm sure I'll be making a video on inversion, and perhaps even on absolute phase, in the near future.

[@paulb4661]

At least to my ear, inversion of absolute phase audibly changes impulse response of vented speakers, one more reason to enjoy low Q sealed.

[@albanana683]

@@paulb4661 If you think you can hear it, then you probably don't understand what it is. Unless, of course, all your observations were conducted in double blind tests.

[@paulb4661]

@@albanana683 Helmholtz resonator is not symmetrical in its behaviour, fluid theory clearly suggests, that the ease of air flow is greater for the input, or enclosure volume compression part of the cycle, than for the output, or expansion part. Without going into detail, which you may not understand, this explains the audible difference resulting from this asymmetry. Closely listen to the beat and you will hear it.

[@albanana683]

@@paulb4661I would love to see the audited and peer reviewed results of your double blind tests.

[@gibson2623]

+6dB? adding 2 equal sound sources?...... LOL....

[@AudioMasterclass]

Go on, tell me why I’m wrong. That should be interesting.

[@gibson2623]

It s +3 dB, lol. I know you know this stuff, so I am apprehensive, where s the catch? LMAO

[@razisn]

@@gibson2623 Twice the voltage also implies double the current so power is increased 4 times..

[@gibson2623]

In Decibels is +3. This is academic :)

[@razisn]

@@gibson2623 No it's +6, 4 times the power.

[@adotopp1865]

Who are these people? These so-called audiophiles,who worry about this and that. They spend this and bla bla cables and silver plated angel dust snake oil .......

[@AudioMasterclass]

They're people who have a lot more money to spend than you, they live the high life every night, and have more girlfriends queuing up than Leonardo DiCaprio. Still, you're the one with the keyboard warrior skills.

[@adotopp1865]

@@AudioMasterclass Thanks, babe, great answer. I'm waiting for you to do the video on 'The Audiophile' It should be brilliant!!

[@rsvp9816]

wtf did you just say

[@ac81017]

Think Phils needs a haircut, he might be able to hear better then.

[@AudioMasterclass]

Phil takes a financial haircut every time he upgrades. That’s why he can’t afford a barber.

[@cptrips5105]

@@AudioMasterclass thats true. When my friends ask how I can afford such expensive equipment I tell them it's because I stopped going to barber fifty years ago.

[@stevengagnon4777]

​@@AudioMasterclasshow does one upgrade an already perfect system?

[@stevengagnon4777]

Just throw an extra pair of Bose 301 series II s in and non symmetrical wood paneled walls then you will have plenty of phase issues to cancel each other out.

[@AudioMasterclass]

@@stevengagnon4777 I sense flippancy in your comment but in acoustic treatment this is exactly why many weak diffused reflections are preferable to few strong specular reflections.

[@humblestever24]

I'd rather hear a good clarinetist without you engineers having him running from speaker to speaker. Real music is far different from your so called engineers.

[@philipkershaw7918]

Why the so peremptory, dismissive and rather rude statement? Good quality audio reproduction systems and sweet sounding clarinets don't design and build themselves, you know!