Doctor Who: The Waters of Mars - Review | Review of Death Podcast #55

[@spacemcguffin]

I also don't quite get how the Dalek bit works - so the Dalek from the Series 4 finale comes down to start exterminating everyone, but looks at Adelaide, sees her fixed destiny and leaves her alone. Right, but... the whole plot of the Series 4 finale is that the Daleks (and Davros) are gunna blow up literally the whole of reality and creation anyway, so what does it matter? Surely by leaving Adelaide alone, the Dalek knows the reality bomb plot is doomed to fail then?

[@mediakira6621]

It’s never really confirmed that the Dalek Left her alone because of her moment in time. The doctor was just projecting his theory on why it spared her. Doesn’t mean he’s right The Dalek must have gotten the signal to return to shelter.

[@thefifthdimensionalsage5274]

You guys posted this on my birthday and I found out about it right after I watched this episode, how serendipitous. I love it, it had a huge impact on me as an 11 year old. (I was weirdly existential after watching it.) It's a great exploration of the 10th Doctor's vanity and it's tightly-paced and wonderful atmospheric. Graeme Harper gave his A game as he always does. This, Remembrance of The Daleks and The Greatest Show In The Galaxy are the ones I always watch around my birthday.

[@ConnBarry]

When I first saw this and Adelaide says “.... and there's no one to stop you” in her final scene with the Doctor, I thought that was foreshadowing the Master. As in, I thought for his final episode, Davies was going to flip things around and have the Master save the Universe ....from the Doctor! That would have been an insane way to end Tennant's run, and I think it's a shame we got the more generic dynamic instead.

[@adamfreddo5703]

I think the only time they do mention/reference Waters of Mars in End of Time is the diner scene. The Doctor does mention "a really bad thing" that he did that leads into his breakdown in front of Wilf. And I always did see the opening of the End of Time as a coping mechanism of what he had done and to avoid the prophecy of course. I do wish it was more explored though, with maybe Rassilon being a reflection of the Time Lord Victorious notion.

[@Johno3998]

So interesting to hear you talk about Season 14 here now it's aired (We were so full of hopes and dreams back then)

[@russelltietjen4407]

I like the comparison of the Time Lord Victorious and The Valeyard. The Big Finish Unbound story "He Jests at Scars" has The Valeyard running around undoing a bunch of The Doctor's "mistakes" like waking up the Silurians early and killing the Daleks and straight up wiping out Gallifrey because he thinks that it'll create a better future. He thinks he's above it all when it all comes to bite him in the arse.

[@jeremythomaswebb1485]

For the Genesis of the Daleks review, are you guys going to mention the recent Big Finish lost stories release that covers a early draft of Genesis. The response regarding that release is quite vocal and interesting.

[@MylesD1]

Though I'm not a fan of the Tennant Era I don't Mind this Episode too much, although I haven't seen it since it went out 😆& the robot saying (Gadget Gadget) all the time does get on your nerves a bit lol . Positive things to say em ...... Oh great visuals of the Martian landscape which haven't really dated & I think still stand up today.👏👏👏

[@kjmmxii123]

I've got a theory that the missing Celestial Toymaker episodes were among those found in 2021, and that this informed RTD's decision to bring back the Toymaker (assuming he has). Kinda like a 'joint promotion' thing.

[@Gxbbzee]

On Murray this episode, I also think the score when the Dalek comes down to the window is scored absolutely beautifully.

[@Sarphee]

"The Fate of Little Adelaide", great track.

[@johnellisbushbush]

I absolutely agree and also can’t help but feel the “Water of Mars” special should have been first one. With the rest having him grapple with the Time Lord Victorious personality and getting back to being the Doctor before having to sacrifice himself for Wilf. I think if we saw the consequences continue in these hypothetical specials, it might have taken the top spot of my favourite Who episode but it just gets dropped. The way yous put it summed it up perfectly, it is like we are missing episodes between this and the End of Time two parter

[@spacemcguffin]

Loved the review. One thing you didn't mention was that, chronologically, Day of the Doctor happens for 10 between this story and arriving on the Ood Sphere. Obviously he forgets the events of the 50th, but when we see him having a picnic with the Queen, even then there's still a bit of a disconnect between TLV and what he's upto. (Real world: obviously Steven doesn't want to get bogged down in 10th Doctor lore during the big fun 50th but still, you'd never even know the TLV/Mars thing just happened for him a short while prior.)

[@frazzlesreviews5379]

This is probably my favourite episode of Doctor Who ever. I remember watching it so fondly. It was the week of my sixth birthday and I was allowed to stay up late to watch it. I struggled to sleep for years afterwards 😂

[@Jaketherobonrd]

Ahh yes, this is such a terrific scary story. The flood are definitely one of the most scariest monsters in the show. Just the idea that water on mars can turn you into a water monster is a terrifying concept indeed!

[@maxkennedy7430]

I remember when watching this special around 2009. There was always this lingering fear going in that any moment The Doctor was going to die. Because it was around the time when David was leaving and Matt was gonna be the new Doctor. I also remember watching a old vid of someone recording a leaked teaser of The End of Time before Waters of Mars aired. So with that mindset and during the scene When Adelaide pulls out her gun and the Doctor turns his back to her. I legit thought she was gonna shoot him in the back. Which would’ve triggered the regeneration process and then the End of Time would have 10 trying to fight against it.

[@mediakira6621]

Loved it. Consequences for breaking the laws of time weren’t as over the top as Moffat keeps pretending but when Davies mentions “fixed points” you always get a sense of dread. Like you don’t know exactly what’ll happen they’re broken. It’s just vague enough. I feel like Moffat would have made it so she doesn’t kick herself and it’s all done to “I am the doctor” Water creatures were chilling and I loved Tennant’s performance. All those moments he lost someone , the horrors of the time lords just hammering into his head when it hits him; No. more. He’s saving who he wants. Genesis…I like it. Daleks look great, of course Davros is chilling. Tom Baker delivers as always. Two small things: Daleks ray gun sound like someone sucking on a sucky cup. This one is very petty but i watched this after I watched journey’s end. Davros and Sarah Jane’s interaction implied they had some grand epic encounter. Watched genesis; they didn’t. I mean if it journey end was more realistic Davros would have said “Umm…no.” when Sarah Jane asks if he remembered her XD Still, good story but it sadly started the end of the Daleks as individuals being grand threats to me

[@ConnBarry]

Davros strives to be more personable supervillain. He likes to remember all his torture victims.

[@mediakira6621]

One idea I always had to continue the TLV (time lord victorious) is to keep his defiant “No!” at the end of this story and expand on it. Make the end of the time a three parter. Reveal that the Doctor is ruining history too much that it’s weakening the Time Lock around the Time War, which allows the War itself to bleed into the current day universe. Donna is brought in and her memories are returned but she’s given a device by the Ood to help her stabilise. She’s being used as a literal mortality pet to try and get the doctor to stop. Cliffhanger of part one is the time lords resurrecting the Master in retaliation. That’s as far as I got in reimagining

[@PanelHopper]

Every time we come back to the idea of the Time Lord Victorious and the end of the 10th Doctor’s era, I’m reminded of two things: Firstly how badly RTD (whom I genuinely admire) fumbled Regeneration, with “I don’t want to go” pandering to the tiny pockets of fandom who always reject regeneration. Secondly, all the questions I have leading into the 60th anniversary about how the 14th Doctor looks the way they do.

[@TheJaime9526]

Timelord Victorious and the end of the Tenth was all essentially a bit of a creative retread for RTD, in that it’s very similar to The Second Coming, which he had done just a few years before Who with Chris Ecclestone.

[@Luigigirl17]

I personally would have like to have seen instead of the Easter episode an episode where he revisits some he had previously saved, Elton and Ursala, and in actuality they’re life was hell by her being saved and she would have been better dead and now condemned to this eternal half life

[@hvern0n]

Its a real in depth look at 10s character. Whether you like him or not 10 is written so well. He is so hurt by the time war and rose made him better. But after he loses her, the cracks start to form. Without someone, he is dark. Murders the racknoss, wants to leave eveyone behind in pompeii. After he loses donna he gets reckless. 10 needed someone. Thats what i think is so great about russel ts writing. Proper story archs

[@lasercatsproductions]

THIS! This was my beginning as a Doctor Who fan. I remember seeing this one when I was 7 in 2009 when it first came out. My parents watched it when it first came out and I stayed up late to watch it. The "water zombies" as I called them, scared the absolute shit out of me and I remember I wouldnt touch water for weeks after seeing it

[@stephenreed2093]

I remember this being an awesome episode on first broadcast. But despite having the DVD box set, I don't think I've ever rewatched it. Around 2009, life got much busier, and I didn't have time to rewatch episodes.

[@k_who-7706]

I remember being 8 watching this when it aired and being absolutely disturbed by the flood zombies I actually had to cover my eyes when the eerie jump scares happened! I also remember being pretty scared by the Doctor as well by the end as he acts pretty insane trying to change a fixed point in history to then try justifying doing that by saying he’s the winner, the timelord victorious, there’s just something so terrifying about the doctor when he’s on his own and he begins to change into something that is so unlike him. I do agree though Tennant does a complete 180 in the next episode which was a shame but nevertheless what a fantastic episode! 10/10

[@Gxbbzee]

I remember as a kid I was made very uncomfortable by The Doctor when he went temporarily evil, so little me was thankful it was only a short stint, but adult me would have loved to see that continue. I guess RTD knew he couldn't make The Doctor into a baddie for too long as the kids rely solely on him to hold their hand through these often freaky stories, so I don't put any blame on him for how that played out. He was almost flirting with the idea rather than setting it up to be a big thing. I would also say him coming back wearing the sombrero and being extra cheerful was RTD's way of saying "hey kids, I know the Doctor was maybe a bit scary at the end of last episode, but don't worry, he's back to normal now!".

[@EddJones25]

What a time, 15 Doctors appearing in the intro, and 2 we haven't even officially seen in anything yet :P

[@phantomsidious2934]

Great story, one of Tennant's best. Its good to see the doctors character slowly morphing into the Masters persona, or as close as the character can. Always preferred the tenth doctor in his darker and more serious moments, he does that really well as apposed to his more silly and jokey stuff for me that doesn't really work. Its a pity that in the end of time his arrogant persona doesn't continue, I also found it jarring that at the beginning of end of time he's joking around and being silly, but I understand time has passed for him to get over it all. Although it feels to me like the next episode is refresh move on which is a shame, modern series does that a lot, it would be nice to continue that character change until he meets the Master again and then snaps out of it because he sees what he is becoming. It would have been cool also that the doctor's timelord victorious persona also causes his regeneration some how, like he changes time too much and events happen that lead to his demise. Anyway water of mars, really great story and the best of the 2009 specials

[@TimonicFusion]

Really like Matt’s idea of the Doctor going a bit bonkers into The End of Time - I assumed his version of the story was going be the Doctor would be ultimately responsible for bringing back the Time Lords rather than the Master in a misguided attempt to rectify what he considers his biggest regret. Number of avenues they could have gone down, but alas, a million Masters it was!

[@davidbaker2138]

“Dad can pop round and have a go whenever he feels like it?” 😮

[@thomasjohnson8391]

For a long time I thought I was a survivor but I’m not. I’m the winner that’s who I’m am… the time lord victorious.

[@nicksivill7891]

To Mathew and Billy. I have been a huge fan of you for many years. I have also been a fan of Doctor Who Addicts. I was gutted to find that they have stopped. This is because of personal attacks about views they have but worse is the attack on the physical appearance and voices of the presenters. Please can you address this in your next video because it is not ok

[@jmatseas]

I really hope one of the missing episodes is episode four of The Tenth Planet

[@kennybacchus1488]

Review. Of. Death podcast 55. Doctor who. The. Waters. Of. Mars

[@benbastianiartmusic1421]

It's superb. I think it does the 'Doctor going too far' concept much better than stories such as Hell Bent where it fell so, so flat. I always disliked the Tenth Doctor due to his self-importance and big ego, but in retrospect, all Doctors (and fictional characters in general) need to have flaws and need to learn lessons.

[@moondoglovesyou]

Looks like Billy has a small child's dress hanging up behind him.

[@martynking1613]

Where? I don't see it

[@whatsup4825]

I'm going to let this review wash all over me.

[@meatrace]

Waters of Mars is so quintessentially mid. The only reason it's remembered with any fondness is because the rest of the "specials" season was such utter shit. Not a single likeable character, not a single consequence for Doctor's actions, lame zombie monsters that couldn't frighten a baby.

[@phantomsidious2934]

No consequence? His actions in saving brook made her kill herself. That's the consequence of his actions, the doctor made it happen instead of leaving her on Mars

[@JD-Media]

So wrong.