Does anybody want a British and Irish league? | Squidge Rugby on URC-Premiership merger

[@Etain18]

Can't believe how deaf English pundits are to the utterly negative responses from Irish fans (who are fully committed to the URC with our SA and Italian partners). It's not happening. Viva the URC! Whoop whoop!!

[@fomofud9479]

Hear hear! ❤ from a Saffa!

[@rafiqhendricks6904]

As a Saffa, I must say the Irish has always had honor. You gain that through historical experiences.

[@johnmurray2995]

100% this. Utter madness from an Irish viewpoint. I'd imagine the Scots feel the same way, they've had to work very hard to establish their regional teams as legitimate entities with real fanbases and competitive sides, and after twenty plus years doing that, just when the addition of the SA sides means things are finally nicely sorted for them, they're meant to blow that all up to suit the English club game? I can't see them going for that.

[@Camcolito]

Watching these clowns discuss this while completely ignoring Irish opinion, or even the relevance of Irish opinion, is bemusing.

[@Runboyrun89]

Not all Irish. It is the only logical way forward in the long term.

[@BaneofBalor]

If the Welsh teams want to join the prem, it'd be great to see some other European teams take their place in the URC. If you had a Georgian, Portuguese, Spanish & Romanian team join it'd be great for rugby in those countries. Also as a Leinster fan, an away game in Portugal or Spain sounds like a great weekend if you ask me. Easy to get to as well.

[@ricmorris9758]

@@BaneofBalor Portugal and the Canary Islands and we'd be laughing

[@LeMerch]

I’d love that! I don’t want wales to leave but if they do.. yes 100% have a Portuguese, Welsh and maybe Georgian team enter!

[@iteamy]

Portugal doesn't have a good enough club team atm. It'd be meat for the grinder as much as I'd love URC games on my doorstep

[@Zomo1553]

​@@iteamycouldn't be much worse than zebre...

[@mysteryhombre81]

Totally agree tbh. I hope this happens.

[@innesstewart5253]

I for one, think the inclusion of the South African teams has transformed the standard in the URC. I'd rather watch Glasgow & Edinburgh play them on a regular basis, and leave games v English teams for europe.

[@camgreystonesphysio3582]

Dan Cole already calling it the British league, one reason why ireland should’nt join. Stay with SA and Italians and Scot’s

[@truecalling61]

I’m Irish and I’d really hate this to happen. The Italians and South Africans are our partners! Damaging or devastating rugby in two countries just so our provinces earn some more money is unacceptable. The premiership also seems like it’s been really badly managed financially with teams that really should be able to support a good league by itself. Sort that out!

[@fomofud9479]

❤ from SA! We love the URC!

[@burncarlow]

Irish here too and completely agree. Love the inclusion of Italian and SA teams. I CAN see Welsh teams opting to join the prem for cost saving and nostalgic reasons, I don't want that but if it does happen id like to see Georgian, Romanian, Portuguese and Spanish teams at least given an opportunity to join. I think the Scots would suffer in development if they jumped.

[@rafiqhendricks6904]

And that healthy rivalry forming between Irish and S.A. is going to be massive in a few years and make so much money too.

[@fomofud9479]

@burncarlow agree 100%, let's grow the game. The Eng are only interested because they've screwed up their own premiership. Now they want to take control like they did in test cricket with India and Australia

[@kevindevane6175]

@@burncarlow If the Welsh jump ship it will be game over for them within 10 years. The hills always look greener from afar lads.

[@therealmrfishpaste]

"Wow the URC has been doing so well since the Saffas joined...let's kick the Saffas out, so we can get a part of the success that they brought"....wait a minute....

[@bosvarkd8403]

Moegoes the lot of the broke English

[@danedwadd62]

@@bosvarkd8403why do you think all saffers play abroad

[@davesmith826]

@@danedwadd62 All Saffers play abroad? I must have missed the relocation of the Stormers, Bulls, Lions, and Sharks.

[@RhysWilliams-u3o]

​@davesmith826 before the URC most of them did. Not the case anymore though

[@davesmith826]

@@RhysWilliams-u3o No, a minority of them did. Before the URC, the vast majority of SA pros played in a little-known competition called Super Rugby. You know, the club competition that produced more elite rugby players than any other on earth by an order of magnitude.

[@NickyDunne-l7z]

Get real...if England want a decent league, let them ask to join the URC.

[@AnBreadanFeasa]

They are!

[@RazorMouth]

URC is big enough as it is. If that was to happen we'd need a division A and B with relegation. I think the English need to look inwards and fix their own sh1t and not always to look externally to fix/blame their issues 👀 They are a country of 60 million people, plenty to have their own league.

[@Zomo1553]

​@RazorMouth I don't think there should be any relegation though, it defeats the point of having good and bad teams. By this I mean, the Welsh teams last year were pretty bad, but so many young Welsh players still get a chnave to have experience against leinster (basically a warm up ireland for 6n). Also absolutely no one would watch the B league

[@RazorMouth]

@@Zomo1553 exactly.

[@ricmorris9758]

Remember how the English teams treated the URC teams with the restructuring of European competition? 10 teams? Proposing a league with English teams in the majority hahaha. If English teams want to join the URC they would get 2x4 team conferences. SW and North + Midlands Salary caps? Don't blame ireland for speculative ownership of English club sides,,when the money is obviously in the national game

[@rahimoneill7294]

Pathetic. No... Leinster are not going to subsidise crappily run private clubs in England. The ZA teams add more than all the English teams would. Union-run teams are more important than privately run clubs.

[@OscarOSullivan]

Not only that they are long standing provincial teams. The private clubs are pissing money up the wall.

[@fjacobs]

Why are you discussing this? The URC has already come out and said it’s not being discussed.

[@Camcolito]

They think they run everything.

[@qtip4747]

Worked out great for NZ and Aus to kick South Africa hasn't it?

[@TheDdvd1]

This comment is underrated!!!

[@pixelpotato4874]

As an All Blacks fan,the mind boggles how they couldn't come to an arrangement with South Africa.The Super Rugby competition is a shell of its former self,and with South Africa and Argentinian players playing in the North, it's strengthened their respective National teams,the results this year prove that.NZRFU need to include overseas players,but I can't see that happening anytime soon.

[@davesmith826]

@@pixelpotato4874 My understanding is that it was the Aussies driving the bargain. The fact that they've been granted the next World Cup is a travesty. They've done nothing to grow the game of union in upwards of a decade. The South Africans, in contrast, have introduced the game to an entire continent - the kind union will need if the sport is to survive.

[@Charlie-uz8vb]

South African teams were shit against kiwi team tbf

[@_peepyopee]

​@@davesmith826 NZRU was the driving force behind the Saffas exit.

[@charliebannon5489]

In Ireland, I saw one article about the proposal for a British and Irish league. The general reaction was, "Nooo!!! Tell me its not happening!!!" Then the IRFU confirmed that it's not happening, and there's been nothing more about it. As a Connacht and Ireland fan, I wouldn't want it to happen. The URC has dramatically improved since the South African teams have joined. Standards have been pushed much higher for all teams. Weve got world cup winners, grand slam winners, teams from the top two ranked international countries in the world. For the Scots, Italians and Welsh, club teams, they have to push their standards higher to compete, and I think they are getting there, or will get there. In my sport, im no world champion, but 11 years of training with and learning from world champions, im 20% better than I would have been had i not trained in that environment. The URC is in a healthy place for the teams involved. I can't see it breaking up.

[@LeinsterExile]

Let's just leave everything as it is. The URC is doing well why ruin it.

[@garethsimpson9821]

As an Irish fan this is a complete non starter. I have no interest playing the drudgery of the PL. It's an average league run by idiots. The URC is the second best league in the world after Pro14. Why go down.

[@JohnKennedy-ll5hp]

Haha they really want their cake and eat it. They haven’t got a leg to stand on, the premiership is a shambles and won’t be around for long. We had to change the Champions cup format to push more money to english clubs and they still can’t get their s$!t together. Good luck but we are pretty happy without having to prop up the english league

[@danedwadd62]

Prem is best league

[@DufftronicOk]

All rugby fans should be hoping the English premiership keeps going. As an Irishman living in England, playing and coaching here, it would be a disaster for the game if it were to fold. And it would affect every northern hemisphere league as well.

[@___JWM]

The attitude of the British towards proposing kicking out the South African teams from the URC makes me so mad. Thoughts of our scrum annihilating yours soothes my anger

[@galinor7]

Connacht, Munster and Leinster aren't British teams. Éire is an independent country.

[@truecalling61]

@@galinor7 He’s probably talking about the hosts of this show. They are actually British.

[@JohnKennedy-ll5hp]

They just can’t stand to see the rest of us above them. They can’t understand it, they still have the same old mindset of grandeur and empire. Have a look at your whole country…you are a mess england!

[@Zveebo]

England, Wales, Scotland (and Ulster) are all different countries for these purposes, with different views. It doesn’t make much sense to talk about a ‘British’ view here. A lot of Welsh fans have wanted to join with England for ages. But that’s not at all true in Scotland, where the bigger rivalries are with Ireland, Italy, and increasingly South Africa. Scotland and Ireland (and the fans in these countries) are really not pushing to change the URC at all - they’re delighted with it.

[@cobusbrits2]

​@@galinor7think he meant English test team.

[@jayduplessis7698]

The other issue, which everyone seems to forget about, is that "emerging" European nations like Georgia, Romania and now Portugal and Spain, are not included in "European Rugby" at a club level... So what are the chances of them ever "emerging"? We saw how great it was for Argentina to have a team in Super Rugby (pre-Covid) - they went from struggling to nearly winning the competition! THAT'S how you build rugby in a nation... give them quality games week in week out - not just at World Cups.

[@JC-hc5de]

I would remain loyal to SA and Italia , the URC is absolute class to watch as it is , earning the right to play against the English teams in Europe creates a big buzz of excitement, absence makes the heart grow fonder .

[@Camcolito]

It's more that the English teams earn the right to lose in Europe.

[@Sportspenguin77]

@@Camcolito Won the ECC 10 times and runners up 5 the CC 12 runners up 10. Stop talking drivel. Won it more times than the URC combined which is just Irish teams that have won it

[@davezubie]

Why is this gaining traction in England? Well a report states that "Seven of the 10 Premiership clubs are balance sheet insolvent" The URC is a great competition that doesn't need, or want, English involvement.

[@DM-rp9ik]

URC is still growing and needs stability with the amount of changes over the last few years any change now would just be damaging like look what they did to the European cup

[@Tereyoc]

Why do English people want to decide how many union test contracts are given out in Ireland. Why don't you don't you want to do the same thing in new Zealand It's a fairly disgusting joke that the same English clubs that took control of the Heineken Cup, realised they had no idea what they were doing and ask the people in Dublin they fired to run it for a season. Now they want to take over something else that's going well. These English clubs had bucket loads more money than the irfu itself for years. Irish provincial games at home are broadcast on national TV by law. What TV funding will come out it.

[@siglo2764]

Would be more cost effective

[@scrounger-h8i]

its the simple arrogance of the idea.......

[@chrism7786]

😂 The URC doesn’t need the English clubs.. such a load of nonsense. A lot of work has gone into the URC to get it to where it is… it’d be foolish to change it now just cause the English see fruits of their labour! Also… bloody Dan Cole calling it a British league… mother of god these guys

[@Saints-z7i]

If the Welsh should leave, they can change the URC name to the Super 12. Don't add teams just for the sake of if. Surely we have learned the mistakes from the past.

[@Zveebo]

They’re not going to change the name either way - it has a good brand.

[@brettfleiner4906]

So the English teams wanted nothing to do with Irish or Scottish teams when they were in an underwhelming league, but as soon as they see them in a super successful and growing league (URC) and they see the teams building in strength, clearly positively impacting their national teams too, the RFU suddenly wants a piece of that pie? The Premiership has TWO solvent teams at the moment, are they really trying to build a better product that benefits all teams or are they just trying to bail themselves out? Anyone with a pair of eyes can see what they're doing here.

[@paddydiskin3645]

This idea put forward by the English Premiership is symptomatic of their attempts to get others to solve their in-house problems. No, I would not like to see a British & Irish league. If it weren't for the demise of Gloucester, etc., there wouldn't have been a cheep out of the Premiership. Only in Wales is there any support for this and they have their own internal problems.

[@nikdinning2085]

I am a committee member of a community club in England and I wouldn’t trust the RFU to run out Under 8s. Complete omnishambles.

[@jbask7124]

An Anglo-Welsh would make sense for all. Then bring southern kings and Cheetahs back to URC. 3 european leagues with 14 teams each. A merger of URC and prem is a terrible idea. Would destroy the champions cup and would make for a very overcomplicated league

[@gerardfitzpatrick60]

4 🇿🇦 teams is enough in URC, why not leave it at 12 teams and have 11 home and away ? If URC going to 14 add Georgia and Romanian national sides

[@ashishd380]

I have heard that's the Southern Kings and the Cheetahs are trying to get into super rugby

[@Wolf-hh4rv]

The Euro championship should be played at the end of the URC. A playoff between URC, Prem, France. Ridiculous to play it simultaneously. Too much rugby (and I love rugby). If England wants to join the URC let them submit an application along with Georgian , Portuguese and Romanian teams. But then we would have to have a conference system that Super Rugby evolved to prior to 2020.

[@maguined]

The problem with playing it at the end of the season is the 3 different leagues have different season lengths. Prem 20 rounds, URC 21 rounds, Top14 30 rounds. If played at the end of the Top14 the Prem and URC players will have weeks of no game time while Top14 will have had no break.

[@coatknight]

@@maguined or the URC and Prem can just start later. The seasons need to change for the sake of the global game. The Top 14 is rather stubborn about this and so was the English Prem before.

[@maguined]

@@coatknight If you do that so they are aligned that means the URC and Prem give up rugby for September and October and only start their seasons in November. This means Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Italy and England all go into the Autumn International games with 0 game time. Changing the EPCR so that it runs at the end of the domestic leagues is not reducing the amount of games so it is not changing the season for the sake of the global game at all. The global game will only benefit by the domestic leagues reducing the number of games they have so it is easier to fit everything thing in which no one especially the Top14 want to do. The 6N has already cut a week out of their schedule because the domestic leagues wanted it.

[@coatknight]

@maguined that is part of my point. The test window needs to be moved as well to be more in line with a global window. The whole setup is archaic and needs to be looked at. There are possible solutions, but it will take various parties to see the bigger picture without being detrimental to their own interests.

[@maguined]

@@coatknight sure but simply changing the EPCR from running during the domestic league seasons to just the end of season won't fix that as the original poster wanted. Agreeing such calendar adjustments are always going to be incredibly difficult as everyone has different desires. At the end of the day the Top14 is the most successful and the longest season so asking them to sacrifice its needs by reducing it somehow for the benefit of the global calendar is an impossible task currently.

[@brettclarke6798]

It appears that the only teams and people that are interested in this are the English teams and English pundits…

[@RickRuckus]

Scottish Glasgow fan here, the URC is class at the mo with the Saffa and Italian teams. I would hate it to change. would lessen the fun of playing English teams in europe also

[@steviemac9055]

No. The URC is great and means the players of all countries involved play top class rugby regularly. It has helped the Italian game immensely and is turning their national team into a force. Maybe England can team up with America or something if they feel like they're losing out.

[@TheDdvd1]

Makes no sense .. kill rugby in Italy... loose access to SA clubs with some of the best players in the world.. To bring in a struggling league that from the outside looks poorly run. If you want to do anything then it's seeded draws to fill a 2 division league .. top 4 of each play off for the spoils. No one gets kicked out. Rugby keeps growing. Issue then us that ERC is watered down as only france is on the outside. But one problem at a time.

[@eamonosullivan2702]

This only been thought of to help the financial mess that is the English Premiership. It would be bad for Irish, South African and Italian teams. Probably not great for Scottish teams. It probably would help Welsh teams. So basically, not going to happen.

[@Finderskeepers.]

The English need to show they can run a league well without teams going bust before they get to influence a league that is running well.

[@neilmontgomery3470]

Why would we change the URC when it is growing in terms of viewership and profitability? I don't think we should take on a failing and badly managed league and then have them diminish the product once they get onboard. They did something similar with the Champions Cup and then complain on their podcasts that its not as good as it once was. Let the Welsh leave if they want to. We could take on Black Lion or maybe a Portuguese or Spanish Club. They would get regular fixtures which would grow the game more and improve their chances in the international game.

[@James-ih4gz]

I cant see why Irish teams want to be in that league i dont think they need it. Welsh teams would all finish bottom and scottish teams mid table. Irish sides would finish near top.

[@bluejays25]

Premiership Rugby is a good competition but ten teams is too small and it's a financial mess with almost all of them running at a loss. Why on earth would the URC kick out the Italians and South Africans and embrace that?

[@patrickchilds2987]

I am not sure how serious PR are about these proposals or how they have been received and we won’t know until a decision is made Purely from a commercial standpoint a British and Irish competition would likely be able to attract much higher revenues than the current competitors . That is what the respective unions will be examining closely. The other advantage would be the travelling distances for teams and fans. That said it’s pretty harsh on the South African and Italian sides who have been brilliant but if there is a very good deal on the table then it could happen . Personally I don’t think England should do this , I think England and Wales should have their own league and URC their own. I’m not sure how strongly these proposals are and we won’t know the details if and when they are announced.

[@neil216]

Please take the Welsh. Other than that, the URC is staying the way it is. Joking about the Welsh, but genuinely they might be the only ones in the URC that would be interested. There is literally no way the IRFU would agree and it would be treachery of the highest order to ditch the South Africans and the Italians and the IRFU has a track record of prioritising support for UNIONS rather that private “clubs”. The destruction of the HEC by PRL taught us to have nothing to do with the egos and wannabes in the premiership.

[@seanofarrell8896]

Why talk about it got denied by both premiership and urc would rather play SA sides and itlay over England

[@bradnaude2334]

URC is still gaining Momentum with its new format and Ireland , South Africa , Scotland and Italy are all stronger than ever.

[@ProTantoQuid]

I can see why the badly run Premiership requires more money. The Irish aren't interested. The Scots don't seem to be interested. The Welsh may be interested but would probably be submerged. The Italian teams would be bankrupted. The Boks would be enraged and blame the refereees.

[@kevindevane6175]

The point the lads are missing by referring to the Irish model is wrong as we were blessed here to always have had the regional set up within Irish Rugby. It's not a thing that just came along in the last 25 years, interprovincial rugby has been played in EIRE for the last120 years. The set up just happened to be there when the game went pro, for other countries to replicate this is a tough ask.

[@thomas_lale]

I would argue, instead of getting English teams playing other countries teams, why don't we get a proper second division going where there is promotion and relegation between the two. Deepen the league pyramid and give teams at the bottom of leagues something to play for.

[@OscarOSullivan]

I think it would be a superb idea, the bottom of tier 1 and the top of tier 2 are in the hot seat for a match which decides if promotion and relegation happens for those two teams. A Georgian team would be great.

[@coatknight]

The French has it set up like that but they have the money to do so.

[@ashishd380]

I like the sound of that a relegation and promotion would be good, it brings good competition

[@ashishd380]

​@@coatknightmaybe get sponsors from the outside, it can be advertised as a rival to the top 14

[@JamesMacleanEsq]

The only people this would serve are the Welsh regions. And that's got nothing to do with the URC, it's the chronic mismanagement of the club game by the WRU over decades and their strange hybrid ownership structure.

[@galinor7]

The English might like it but it's a poor fit for the rest. It's based on economics that are good for England. Scotland and Wales would get two sides each. This means that Scotland would not be allowed to expand and Wales would have to cut their regions by two, obviously Caerdydd and Abertawe would remain. As a Llanelli fan I'd rather chew my leg off than follow them and I'm going jogging tomorrow anyway. Scotland have never won the 6N and Cymru will never win it again with only two sides. North Wales already has North Wales Crusaders a Rugby League side. If we lost Scarlets, we would only have Crusaders as a professional rugby team from from a majority Welsh speaking community. Well done England. Glorious one off victories against England and France aren't good enough in the West. The eastern lands in Britain can keep their League.

[@conchronic]

Don't think the prem is the answer frankly I think the Welsh clubs would be treated like the poor relations rather than partners in URC set-up.

[@mysteryhombre81]

Welsh teams should leave and join a new Anlgo-Welsh Prem (AW) and be replaced, by Georgian, Iberian and other countries teams.

[@mattpotter8725]

A lot to unpack here. England should be able to have its own league, the problems with the Premiership, and this goes back long before the current problems, is greed, and the "big" clubs behaving like Premier League clubs in football but without the product or income to back it up. The only reason this is being brought up again now is greed. The URC is a better product with better rugby on show with better players, better coaches, better rugby and some of those running the "big" clubs in England want in on this. The where would a combined team of Leicester and Northampton play (something i don't ever see happening btw) just has me shaking my head. I know it's slightly different but Munster play in both Cork and Limerick so the answer as to where a combined Leicester-Northampton would play is simple Leicester and Northampton!! This is missing the point though, if you were to combine the clubs into one you wouldn't get the combined revenue you currently have from the sum of the two clubs, and thus you wouldn't get the combined squad that both clubs have. This is pure fantasy land. Secondly did Dan completely forget about Gloucester, which as far as i know is in the Midlands, and Exeter, which i know is in the South West, but is that the West Country? Who would you combine Sale and Newcastle with? Either way i don't see how this could easily happen without a massive restructuring beforehand and without money up front to finance it i don't see how this could happen. If it was forced through, maybe with the collapse of the Premiership, in which case the bargaining power of English clubs wouldn't exactly be great, they'd have to go to the URC with a begging bowl, i could see it failing and then what happens in England, start from scratch? Maybe that wouldn't be such a bad thing in there long term, and I'm sure there are those in Ireland and South Africa who might love this to happen. I think what is happening here is greed, that the money men in charge of the likes of Saracens, Leicester, Harlequins, Bristol (I only include the latter because i know the club is owned by a businessman) and to a lesser extent Exeter, Northampton, Bath, Sale, and Newcastle (although i doubt all would be allowed to join URC so this is only if it were just a British & Irish league, which i don't think would work financially, just as the Premiership doesn't seem to be) are just looking for that quick fix to make money without having to actually fix the real problems with club rugby, which in my eyes is stagnation, lack of competition, a closed shop, and not growing the game in the country as it should outside of the towns and cities with Premiership clubs. They behave as though they are the Premier League without the quality product to back it up. I know in England it's more difficult because football, by which i mean association football, is so big, but it should still be possible for there to be an actual pyramid worthy of the name with strong foundations at a grass roots level all over there country. When i was a kid i used to look forward to watching the likes of Bath come and play my local club in the John Player Cup. I know the game was less global then and there were still the big clubs that won they leagues and cups then as well but there seemed to actually be structure that is now lacking. I guess that's because that was before the sport went professional and big money got involved. That was always going to happen, but i think there are deeper problems in English club rugby then just whether the to clubs still join or form a Super League of sorts. If i were the current URC clubs I'd stay well clear of this.

[@DaSkonk]

Well said, couldn't agree more!

[@jebgue3]

Too many teams in the Champions Cup and drags on for too long. Top 2 or top 3 should be the one making it through. It should take place as one single block. Make it as a Master format played within a month

[@michaelvdunne]

Please remember it’s the ENGLISH that screwed the Champions Cup up.

[@gavinkelly7458]

Would this conversation be happening if the premiership was thriving financially?

[@DaSkonk]

In a word, no. Not in a million years!

[@GiveMeBourbon]

Bonus squidge episode ftw!

[@davidscanlon6929]

No way id want that to happen, URC with SA and Italy is better than premiership teams. SA bring a lot of fire and its developing the game in Italy.

[@runforrestrun1965]

Yeah makes sense and maybe some financial sense too, currently with some clubs struggling, a British/irish comp for British/Irish teams as long as there is promotion/relegation 2 tiers to allow for a broad scope of teams and keeps the interest in it. You dont see the English premiere league having non British teams in it and it’s one of the most successful comps ever. That’s what the Champions league tries to do, and by extension test windows are for. I guess the URC could be that alternate comp with teams from Italy, Georgia, SA etc.

[@DavidShort-q1d]

For me a BRITISH LEAGUE only works when you go to Championship level teams [LEVEL 2 ] where you could see Pontypridd play goldolphin or Coventry ect You can also keep a championship /premiership playoff series which would allow the highest ranked English club to be promoted if they win Having a level 2 British league i hope would also make getting a good tv deal easier and it would allow the return of some of the old club rivalries While promoting new ones It shouldn't be too hard to select 16 teams for a British div one and another 16 for a div two with promotion between the two leagues

[@toma411]

I think different cultures/countries have ever so slightly different desires as to what they want out of a rugby game. Broadly similar, I mean everyone wants as high quality rugby as they can get, but for example I think English fans really value historic, traditional club rivalries, and the culture of the city/towns really bleeds into the culture of each club. It reflects how old the game is here, and in Wales etc. But maybe somewhere like SA also does value those things too, but might not quite understand that same depth of culture and history that other clubs have, so can't understand what it means to sacrifice playing your historic rival home and away every year. Leicester Vs Northampton being a good mentioned example.

[@ajs17897]

Cardiff vs Quins and Bath last year was one of the best atmospheres in a long time. Even Sale vs Opsreys was good and there's no club to club rivarly there but because it's England v Wales it has a bit more to it, plus away fans can be there to add to the atmosphere. As good as the SA clubs have been to raising the level of URC rugby the in stadium fan experience dwindles a bit because of the lack of rivarly and how difficult it is for away fans to follow their club

[@toma411]

@@ajs17897 Agree. As fun as it must be for people to go to SA for an away game, the stadium atmospheres there I just really don't see the appeal of. It's like a MLS football game atmosphere, a soulless, plastic imitation of those European atmospheres.

[@Wolf-hh4rv]

South African teams in the URC have a very strong identity and have been bitter rivals for a century now. You can’t say SA doesn’t understand your rivalries.

[@toma411]

@@Wolf-hh4rv Not saying SA teams don't have fierce rivalries, with excellent rugby quality. But the rivalries didn't carry the same weight of history behind it as the English ones do, as an example. Time really does matter. Maybe it's hard to understand from an outside view, it's like going to watch your local team here, it doesn't matter if they're winning every week, or even in the top league. It's just part of your town's identity, same as with football teams here. They were the first clubs of their kind to form in the world, as a way of settling rivalries with near-city 'enemies' in a less hateful way. Not saying SA clubs and rugby culture is worse, it's just different. Simply put, the SA URC teams are franchises, and the English teams are clubs. Franchises can be moved anywhere at the stakeholders discretion, they're just glorified brands. Clubs have a deeper meaning.

[@OscarOSullivan]

The South African union and Irish union used the long established provincial system as their professional clubs while retaining the small clubs in the amateur leagues. Ireland has four professional teams based in four former kingdoms.

[@YOYOTh1s]

Why am I always surprised that props areso eloquent and well spoken. Two of my favourite podcast voices are Coley here and Max Lahiff! We down here in South Africa don't like hearing these whispers. We've seen this show before. Many other Irish supporters have shown great support for us South African supporters in a similar way to NZ supporters before the South African teams got dumped out of SuperRugby. Sadly, rugby administrators don't seem to give a shit about rugby supporters.

[@coatknight]

Whats' up with the podcast of Lahiff and Ryan? They have been AWOL.

[@YOYOTh1s]

@@coatknight new podcast called Maul or Nothing.

[@coatknight]

@@YOYOTh1s thanks. Why do they keep creating new channels?

[@YOYOTh1s]

@@coatknight they got sacked by the owners of the previous podcast, so they decided to go one their own. Or something like that.

[@AdamM7796]

I think that the URC is doing great and we should keep it that way. However if a British and Irish League was to happen and they had to marry up salary Caps (Which should be revenue driven but each nation could nominate a certain amount of players to have central contracts until revenues have caught up to France and all players could stay in this league and earn their potential) I would have 20 teams and 4 Divisions, Each team would play every team in their Division Home and Away and play 3 teams from the other 3 Divisions (17 matches total regular Season, 8 Home, 8 Away, 1 Neutral (in Spain, Portugal, Germany etc) The Top 2 teams in each division go to the Quarter Finals. Its then split 1st vs 8th etc based off Competition points. British and Irish League Ireland Munster Leinster Connacht Ulster London Irish (IRFU Owned) South Harlequins Saracens Northampton Leicester Wasps (Big Brand) West Cardiff Bath Gloucester Bristol Exeter North Glasgow Edinburgh Sale Yorkshire (Academy Exists) Newcastle *The league would buy a suitable stadium in the London Region where London Irish and Wasps would play Home games*

[@Snags-sy8is]

English Welsh league is doable. Be good for welsh rugby and wouldnt be missed unfortunately by urc. A pity to say that but welsh teams not really bringing much to the URC table.

[@SVAgxlxxi]

i’d love it 🤷🏾‍♂️

[@geoffkane3881]

Zero interest in this happening. URC is great.

[@drgjenkins4361]

Oh jesus wept what has happened to Welsh rugby. Id sooner go off in an individual Welsh league than mess the whole system up again. Welsh rugby is simply disguisting at the moment. It doesn't even have the historic dilusions of success anymore!!! It no longer represents the areas that founded it. Id sooner take an internal Welsh league, inflating to 10 teams again (and get some PROPER regional rugby back) than make up the bottom 4 of the Premiership (and pressumably get it 'written in' that we cant be relegated). Welsh rugby will end up with 2 teams in the Premiership if its not careful. Neither of which will represent the working class valleys that made the foundation of Welsh rugby. What a shambles, ill never forgive the gutless business people we have running the WRU, who wouldnt recognise proper Welsh rugby if it was sat in their lap

[@jonathanphillips5794]

If we could afford 10 professional teams in Wales we would already have them. There's just no money in Wales unfortunately.

[@drgjenkins4361]

​@@jonathanphillips5794 Quite alot of 'not affording' is due to the fact that very few people turn up to the games, because they have literally ripped out traditional teams and stuck them into a City. 'Dragons RFC' for example. Smashed together Newport and Ebbw Vale - the WRU made the 'Dragons' brand themselves as 'Newport Gwent dragons' - now - they don't even recognise Gwent in their name and don't even play in Gwent! They've literally shut out the entire Gwent south Wales market! Consolidation, smashing together teams, increasing prices - they've literally set fire to working class sport - and they STILL can't afford to run 4 teams haha!! I refuse to believe that all of Welsh rugby can be consolidated to 4 teams, which they can't afford (and fans can't afford to see either hah). They've taken a semi-wealthy, middle class model and jammed it into a working class sport.

[@I-should-go-outside]

Nah your alright

[@OscarOSullivan]

Munster is very easy to travel two airports Cork and Shannon.

[@tribalque2232]

Kerry Airport aswell

[@Richiegw1]

You get the best of both worlds as it is, so why change?

[@jacobkesanen8340]

I will not watch urc of munster if the English sides join. Urc is fantastic as is. I don't want it to change.

[@Zveebo]

The simple reality is that, outside of the Welsh, there is no real benefit to the rest of the URC in taking in the English. The URC is more successful and more lucrative, and there are more interesting internal rivalries there than with English sides. I don’t think anyone in the URC would stop the Welsh joining the Prem if they wanted to (though the English seem distinctly less than keep on the idea) - but the idea chucking out the Saffas and Italians to bring in some English teams has almost no attraction to the Irish and Scots, so it’s a non starter. The key point is that it’s not the Premiership’s decision to make. The Champions Cup will always exist in some form so long as the top clubs in the URC (and Premiership) want to play the biggest clubs in France and vice versa. And clubs like Leinster, Toulouse and La Rochelle are not going to give up those battles any time soon. Personally I would prefer a format with a separate tournament at the end of the season, perhaps just for the elite sides. But it’s not going away. Heck, the CC final this year was arguably the best rugby match of 2024.

[@Runboyrun89]

There absolutely is sorry. The U.K. and Irish tv markets are joined at the hip. As it is the English carve that out for themselves in the eyes of the broadcasters.

[@LeMerch]

Why is this even a conversation 😂

[@Runboyrun89]

It’s a logical conversation. A B&I has made sense forever.

[@LeMerch]

@@Runboyrun89 logical? Sure. But you think Ireland want to kick the South Africans out for failing English clubs? Seriously… this is nonsense.

[@Runboyrun89]

@@LeMerch reality bites. The URC only works so long as there is discounted flights provided by Qatar Airways. The marginal benefit is just not there. There is no regional league in the world for teams. Super Rugby started hot and declined over the years for a reason. Now tbf the time zones being aligned is super helpful, but the logistics also matter. I am not a defender of English clubs (I think they have run Europe into the ground) but I am curious why you reference their failures and don’t mention others. Our Scottish, Italian, Welsh and South African partners have all had chequered history with pro rugby filled with collapses themselves. I wouldn’t suggest ditching either the South Africans or Italians either btw, there needs to be global competitions that brings teams together in a coherent way.

[@johncahalane7327]

​@@Runboyrun89The URC works for many reasons now Irish teams can turn up in Italy now and get beaten, South African teams can end up getting beaten in Edinburgh, and Scottish, Welsh Italian & Irish teams play in Jo'berg, Bloemfontein, Durban and do the impossible win there ,why ? Competition against the very best, need a level of fitness to compete in South Africa every British &Irish Lions team knows this ,yes there's the traveling cost yes but fans find ways of saving money ask Munster and French Top 14 fans there's a couch available in Limerick or La Rochelle if needed, those relationships are building in Italy and South Africa too ,don't see South African teams going back to Superugby either

[@ottoeunquarto]

So after deeply mismanaging the Premiership, the RFU now wants to mismanage other countries' well-functioning leagues. No thank you - get your act together first please

[@RatzaChewy]

RFU doesn't manage the Premiership, and that's a big part of the problem.

[@dietermeyer3531]

I wouldn't mind if the Welsh moved to the Prem, have the Welsh region clubs join the Prem on the first in augural season and have a pathway to championship for the lower tier Welsh clubs, to have the potential for them to grow in to the Prem

[@RazorMouth]

No. Its fine as it is. Two good leagues. Leave it alone. 🇮🇪♥️🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿♥️🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿♥️🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿♥️>>>🇪🇺

[@Fredders88]

The English rugby divisions were a thing - used to play touring teams - South West, London, Midlands.

[@fatsoblitz]

From an irish fan I wouldnt miss the welsh regions at all might suit everbody if they joined the prem.

[@t3649]

English welsh fan is asked if he’d like Irish, Welsh and Scottish teams to join a league with England..

[@williamcarter3933]

I would go a step further and say we should have a franchised NFL style Euro league

[@Chelaner]

The salary cap issue is a good point

[@maguined]

It is a dishonest one. Every country has their own regulations for the benefit of the game. Different countries with different economies, population demographics and rugby participation levels have different needs in regards to such regulations so demanding the Irish have to obey the English salary cap method while ignoring the English not having to obey the Irish quota system is a one sided dishonest point. Especially if the salary cap is being lauded as the "correct" approach considering 3 English clubs have gone bust under the salary cap. Clubs have breached the salary cap (for multiple years in a row) and been punished (though they were allowed keep their titles/trophies) while other clubs have breached the salary cap but have gone unpunished by declaring a secret amnesty for it.

[@Chelaner]

It’s not dishonest, the points you make are what makes it a good point. How fit all that together with the different factors at play in different countries systems so is one of the big challenges of these sorts of competitions. Especially in the long term.

[@maguined]

@@Chelaner The problem is they never raise those other points. They only ever speak of the English salary cap and never what other countries do and whether those rules/regulations should also be applied. This is not an issue in the EPCR competition because they know they cannot bully the French into accepting the English salary cap level because the Top14 is a bigger and stronger league but they do have an expectation that the Celtic countries should be forced to accept their English salary cap or else the league cannot function.

[@DM-rp9ik]

It's been Toulouse Leinster and La rochelle beating each other for the last 4 years along with everyone else. Why is Squdge saying there's a 4th team? There's not

[@mthunziphakathi4215]

Didn't Exeter win it 4 yrs ago?

[@Zveebo]

@@mthunziphakathi4215 Five years ago.

[@mthunziphakathi4215]

@@Zveebo ok cool, time flies

[@DM-rp9ik]

@@mthunziphakathi4215 thats 5 years it's been Toulouse La rochelle La rochelle Toulouse

[@coatknight]

The way I understood it, he meant those 3 teams and then the rest compete for the 4th spot.

[@gerardfitzpatrick60]

Combined league needs 2 divisions - premier league 3 🇮🇪🇿🇦🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 1 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🇮🇹👌 championship 1🇮🇪🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🇿🇦3🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 + rest 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 promotion + relegation

[@gerardfitzpatrick60]

13 players on central contracts 😂😂😂 more 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 🐂 💩

[@kieranoconnor4334]

Why don't we just rejoin The Pound while we're at it!😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅

[@johnmcalester5165]

Let the Welsh go off and form a league with the English, in truth they really haven't brought much to the URC. Then introduce a Spanish side and a Georgian side to the URC.

[@MrRedsh1rt]

The English clubs scoffed at this idea years ago anytime it was brought up. Afterall, what was in it for them? Why would the Irish who have an excellent programme in place and a newly developed fierce rivalry with South Africa risk joining up with Priemiership teams whose governing body dont know how to run a league. If this is true and there is a genuine push to do this then it smacks of English arrogance. Proper 'do as i say and not as i do' energy.

[@coatknight]

The push might rather be from investors like the CVC, trying to save or recoup what they can out of the EP.

[@mhb1684]

They’ll never let it happen. Let the Cheetahs and Griquahs join the Premiership

[@AdTurnerr]

The only possibility would be the Welsh joining. Theyd benefit from it

[@gerardfitzpatrick60]

What’s the difference between 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿and 🇿🇦🇮🇪 battering 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 sides - the 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 fans promise to attend the games😂😂😂

[@rorybrennan8352]

The amount of ignorance that has come from English players, pundits and fans is unreal..

[@ThabisoNzama-vy7wz]

People needs to understand that any league where there are golden lions, stormers, bulls and sharks with their fans will shine. Ask super rugby and the urc.

[@geotruthnz7013]

You are delusional, in NZ & OZ people know about the Chicago Bulls and the Cronulla Sharks but 99% of the average public wouldn't know who the Stormers and and Lions are associated with. All though we have the AFL Brisbane Lions or Wellington Lions Rugby. Super Rugby with South Africa was a failure long term.

[@conorharris2451]

I hope it doesn’t happen but I wonder if the empty stadiums in South Africa make some say “look they don’t even care about the URC! Let’s kick them out”

[@314159265mangler]

Nope.

[@UlrichHoltzhausen]

South Africans do care but the majority prefer watching at home. There is broadcast money in that. There were 28K for the weekend's Stormers v Munster game. It doesn't help that the stadia are oversized for most games as even with 28K the stadium still looked a little empty.

[@MB-xq9hu]

URC doesn't need England, England used to be a legitimate Rugby country, but that's the past, need to move on, and keep your little league where you can have an actual English team win, where in the URC you have no shot! Obviously eliminating SA would help the Irish and Scottish teams win. England= Great at inventing sports... England NOT= Winning at these sports.

[@gerardfitzpatrick60]

🇮🇪 is supporting 🇿🇦 and not throwing them under the bus

[@gerardfitzpatrick60]

@@Lancarsunny’Home Nations’ empire has long gone, Leicester, Saints and Gloucester can apply for URC 👌

[@gerardfitzpatrick60]

@@Lancarsunny obviously you know fook all regards Irish rugby, we fill stadiums, Rugby is 4th popular sport here, 450,000 watched Leinster home games last season - facts not your 2 world wars and 1 World Cup crap

[@MB-xq9hu]

@@Lancarsunny I would rather listen to non-partials you are English so Obviously you would take that side, I listen to people from other nations... England is great at inventing games (Football/Rugby) But are not good at winning at them because that requires skill and heart, and the English lack in both categories.

[@TheFiremansam22]

​@MB-xq9hu how did Ireland do against England in the 6n?

[@Sportspenguin77]

England and Wales makes sense particularly for the South West Teams and Welsh Regions. I think there is scope for a 12 team competition and given growth 14 . Not interested in the URC model let them carry on their contribution to global warming by having regular fixtures between teams from opposite hemispheres

[@fmully1429]

Perfect, no interest from URC fans for this league, continue as is

[@iteamy]

Is the answer "No" by any chance?

[@yellowboat2055]

British and Irish league or British, Irish and Saffa league?

[@ricmorris9758]

@@yellowboat2055 team green on that one

[@Camcolito]

Neither, this story is complete BS.

[@stevenfennell7020]

Can a country of sixty million people really not support ten pro teams? Ireland supports four pro teams with a population one tenth that size. By rights, England should have many more clubs, not less.

[@seanomalley7073]

I hope this doesn’t happen. But if it did I would have the top 8 in both URC and Premiership and merge the league. The remaining have a division 2 and there’s promotion and relegation at play.

[@7101275129087]

Common guys, South Africa is now in it, how do you openly discuss how to stab your brother in the back? Maybe bring a few English teams into the URC with a relegation system, but to let anyone out now that URC is so staggeringly awesome, makes absolutely no sense. Ask New Zealand and Australia, it gets pretty lonely in a corner of only two nations.

[@geotruthnz7013]

We're not lonely bro, we never cared for the games against South Africa's poor sides

[@alanmckenna1137]

No , South Africa are a great , English teams would be boring

[@mogyc91]

Standard English arrogance on show here. Jog on lads. URC is grand without you.

[@richie82]

In a word...no

[@TheFiremansam22]

Id rather we kept it an all english league tbh

[@DAGATHire]

i love the way they talk about it as if its their choice.. news flash gentle men, its all your side begging for this shite and all the other side laughing.

[@drgjenkins4361]

I hate to say this, but the league is pretty much already the British and Irish league haha! Only 1 nation in Britain is not part of it haha!! England!! That is sophistry 101. The correct way of putting it should be: should the URC throw out SA and Italy for England? I'm an open person- let 4 English teams join AS WELL. Simple fix.

[@WilliamFrance-v3r]

Ben, don't ever mention Sarries and Quins being one ever again! 🤮