Does HeroQuest Need House Rules? | Discussing Roll and Move Plus Other Game Mechanisms

[@xreev0x]

One of my favorite rule modification gives furniture a purpose: players can only search for treasure based on the number of furniture pieces in the room (# +1). So and empty room can be searched once, but a room with a weapons rack, table, and chest can be searched up to 4 times. This keeps the game moving but also makes the uniqueness of each room mean something.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

I think furniture already serves a purpose, providing blocking terrain and indicating when a room may have something more interesting to search for, but it's nice when a quest gives a piece of furniture a special purpose in the quest text. I think this is something a Zargon player can lean into more when they are creating their own quests. Advanced Heroquest included special search tables to roll on depending on what kind of furniture you were searching, which was pretty neat.

[@Zebix]

I did something similar, but a bit more strict: each piece of furniture can be searched for treasure, trap or secrets, and the hero has to stand in a connected square to the piece of furniture (which allows me to set vile traps in front of some * evil grin *). Makes thing a bit longer indeed, but we liked that here ;)

[@mitchiemasha]

I much prefer this variant over limiting the treasure search to only 1. With only 1 search, we don't get the increasing threat in the treasure deck. Limiting searches to the room plus each item of furniture gives us a happy medium between the 2.

[@keeganpenney169]

Oh I like this

[@gerardmontgomery280]

That's a bloody good rule. Treasure should be somewhere.

[@TrueKoalaKnight]

Concerning potions I do this: You can't take any actions at 0 BP. Instead you are dying and your turn immediately ends. Another party member has to use up their action to feed you a potion before your next turn comes around in order to save you from death. When used in this way, a potion restores the dying character to 1 BP instead of rolling to heal.

[@superspecky4eyes]

Whenever I play with the kids I tend to make up rules as I go along, chuck new monsters in if they are getting bored, extra traps etc. In the last session, the heroes failed to kill "Grak" the Orc Shaman. So I had him return as the wandering monster in the following quest. much to their suprise! Whatever keeps things fresh and fun.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

That's the spirit. That's exactly the sort of thing I was getting at in my outro about the joys of Zargon. It's just not the same playing with that app.

[@sneakyking]

Golden rule: fix the fun

[@Spardin]

I always liked the Warhammer quest way of picking turn orders Random but who ever is the party leader with the lamp gets to go first Each game you can change who has the lamp

[@lolzr0xx0r]

We use a lot of house rules spanning from the OG version and some new rules we made recently. -No fixed turn order. We basically roll for initiative during battle. -Unrestricted movement when no monsters are on the board, but I do like the fixed movement better. -We utilized the furniture during combat. For ex, If a player wants to jump on a table or chair I have them roll d20. Success gets them on the table and they can atk/def with a extra die. If they fail they are prone and defend with one less die and also lose their atk that turn. Zargon can do the same with monsters. This also helps with some rooms where the furniture causes bottlenecks. -Players can toss a potion to another player during combat in their line of sight, if not adjacent, with the roll of a d20. This is an action though. Basically D&D lite I suppose. We have some more written down but that's what I recall off the top of my head. Oh, we did have a character that hated goblins and every time he killed one he would roll a d20 to see if he cut off their ears to save as trinkets or get enough to sell afterwards as sort of a side quest.

[@darthkek1953]

The healing potion US rules is fixed by if you go to 0 and drink a potion, it only brings you to 1 Body point. If you want to roll your D6 then you either drink before being Injured, or drink another one!

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

I think something like that does mitigate the issue.

[@Wookieehair]

I think the simplicity of HQ means that it is a blank canvas for adding house rules and RP elements. I am all for it as long as everyone agrees. Season for taste. Many gamers (including myself) fall into the trap of "the game has to be played by the current rules", because most tabletop wargames release new versions that must be used, or you will be a meta pariah. Thing is, outside of a tournament setting the gamers really have all the power to choose which version of a game they use and if any house rules are to be added. All you need is to find other gamers who have figured this out and are willing to give it a try.

[@michaelcaley1359]

A homebrew rule i took from a video i seen was to not show the monster cards for thw current quest until they have defeated them once. That way they learn the stat blocks of the monster through combat.

[@Gewitsch86]

For your Points (We had played pure european, but used some house rules borrowing from the american version, Europe is ridiculous easy): Roll and Movement: My brothers and the friend are playing cooperatively. So they have their Move order and when nothing is on the board and there are no traps I let them walk to the next room and position like they want. We have limited game time and like you said it is not fun seeing people roll dices to accomplish the same as just moving. Healing potions: I am against resurrecting heroes. The random roll for healing potions is nice, because sometimes you did not find the excellent brew, but rather some novice attempt. Searching: We play by Traps and hidden doors. Treasure is only once there. Time to explore: I can not recall that this was a "problem". It feels better, when the guys walk around. Memorizing adventures is bad, because some items etc. are given out in certain rooms and are very powerful. Turn Order: Like I mentioned above we have a solid turn order and that is for the rest of the game. Zargon: I have two limits I try to avoid. First is the limit that the game gets to easy. In the european version this is unavoidable after several missions. Every Monster is most likely getting killed without doing anything. I borrowed from the american version and introduced the "better" stats. The other limit is when the game gets to hard and I can not make it easy, because I need quite some time to rethink it. How do you think of the Master Quest challenge? My group started without equip from former missions and after meeting the black guards they lost hope to ever face the boss. Statistically speaking a Swordsman has such a high chance to just block incoming damage that Zargon would always choose those. They even have good attack values. Now I have invented to make those guys more interesting, but I wanna see how someone beats the Master Quest challenge with a "tough" Zargon.

[@M-E_123]

One house rule I used back in the day (mainly to help the heroes in the Witch Lord Throne Room where they have 2 guys with no equipment because its all in the chest in the room full of monsters, but also helps when traps are printed next to furniture) is that players can move next to a piece of furniture and search it for treasure even if there are monsters nearby - if there is no special entry in the questbook for that piece of furniture you do not get a Treasure Card from taking this action although it still counts as that heroes treasure search for that room. When no monsters are nearby you search the room for treasure as normal and this searches the whole room including all furniture at once (and because you take more time you can do things like open chests from funny angles to avoid some of the printed traps). I feel like there does need to be something to better incorporate furniture into searching for treasure in a way that doesn't slow the game down but have never seen a system I'm 100% happy with. I do like the idea of limiting treasure searches to the number of furniture items in the room - maybe there's a way of combining these idea's that could work for me. We also always played that you can auto drink a health potion as a response to falling to zero BP - potions didn't take an action to use and so could be used at any time, even when it was not your turn - mainly it was a way of making the Wizard less squishy as 4 BP potions didn't feel so wasted (as they'd be no need to drink them while on 1 or 2 BP anymore, just wait until you're on 0 and get all 4 back).

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

I did a video about different ways to incorporate new rules for furniture, mainly drawing on the ideas from Advanced Heroquest where several of the HeroQuest furniture pieces got their own search tables and special conditions. If you have Advanced Heroquest (or just access to the rules) you may find something in there that you could modify.

[@morganthus6323]

One of my house rules: monsters can open doors and wander when heroes have moved past doors to rooms they're in.

[@superspecky4eyes]

I've not seen that slightly expanded version of the HQ cover art before, slightly different colouring as well. Pretty cool!

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

I believe the colouring was different between the original US and Euro editions.

[@Christianmartialartist78]

One of the rules that we added to our game was since there are elf spells now in the game set up we The wizard has all four elemental spells and the elf uses the elf spells. Since we added that rule my friends enjoy being the wizard a little bit more since they're not so squishy

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

I quite like the idea of letting the wizard have all 12 spells, but still only 9 spell slots, so they are still limited to casting a total of 9 spells, but they get more choice over which ones.

[@cjanquart]

There's all sorts of house rules you can include to make a classic even better: 1. Fighter type characters (Barbarian, Knight) have "monster sense", so you know when the dungeon is clear (useful for some scenarios). 2. Wizard type characters (Wizard, Sorcerer) have "magic sense", so you know if you've found all the magic treasure. 3. "Dungeoneer Exploration Association Department" (DEAD), 100 gold reward for exploring then entire dungeon. 4. No fixed turn order. 5. Finite monsters/traps; put a dice near the treasure deck, every third or fourth monster card draw and put back in the deck removes a card from the deck.

[@JamesMartin-bc8xq]

Aw seeing your old Hero quest painted, man I should do the same. I never got the new one, felt like I was betraying my old one😂. If the players are younger and depending how the game is going I’ll reduce rooms, add or take away monsters depending on time..I did use a rule in my friend once when he died far too quick, if he can eat a doughnut without using his hands he can come back to life🤣.. aw good times.

[@josephskiles]

I just don't like the new models like the old ones, they were just so iconic

[@jonathan2950]

I have the original UK version of the game, I haven’t started playing it yet (waiting for my daughters to get older) but I already have a compiled list of house rules! I have the ones you mentioned (thank you!) but I also want to incorporate the body points for monsters from the US version. It just makes no sense all monsters having 1 BP to me, especially the bosses. Great video as always, thank you.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Giving the monsters a bit more staying power is worth it. Thanks for watching.

[@riot_of_flowers725]

First off, I ordered Heroquest from Hasbro Pulse a few weeks ago, hoping I would like it, and if this is any indication, I ordered all available expansions right after playing the first quest, haha. I am in love with this game, man, and I'm glad I got the chance to see you play it and speak so highly of it. That was definitely instrumental in me buying it. Playing solo, and using the companion app I did contemplate giving the heroes a fixed movement like the monsters, because sometimes especially when time is a factor, it gets to feel a bit much when you're rolling both movement AND attack dice for 4 heroes, but decided against it because I don't primarily roll low for movement, and didn't want to say, set the dwarf for a fixed movement of 6 while I could be rolling 10s and 11s. Aside from that I absolutely can not wait for the Mage of the Mirror, and the Rogue Heir of Elethorn. Now that I'm into it, they can honestly just keep making expansions and new heroes for all I care. Haha. Would love to see you go through a couple missions from Mage of the Mirror when it comes out!

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

I'm glad my videos helped you to find a game you are enjoying so much. That's always really nice to hear. I have a third Frozen Horror solo mission coming up on the channel soon, and I will definitely do some for Mage of the Mirror when I get that as well.

[@Mithrandirkun]

As a European Morcar/Hero player, I agree with some of the issues here. - The issue of the dice roll, I think, is better resolved in the additional rule provided in Frozen Horror. And yes, nobody uses the plate armour (except the knight), it is very unbalanced that the plate armour halves the movement. It would be much better if it's simply subtracted 2 or 3 movement from the 2 Dice roll. - The topic of potions is complicated. For most characters, the free potion drinking rule seems OP, but for the mage who only has 4 Body Points, it's often a lifesaver. Yes, I agree that it would be more balanced that if a hero drinks a potion to avoid death, this should only recover 1 Body Point, because if not, it is always more advantageous to let yourself be killed, since you mostly will recover more Body Points that way than drinking it before you die. -About the turn order, I would prefer that each hero had an initiative stat that is added to a roll of 1D6 each turn to see the order in which the heroes act. It would be a mixed way to avoid the forced turns in clockwise order, or the perhaps excessive advantage of the heroes to be able to freely choose the turn order. And also, it could be an interesting stat for less tanky characters, like the mage and elf, who could maybe have more initiative and be able to choose to act earlier in the turn.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Considering how rare the guardian knight was, I stand by my joke that nobody uses the plate armour! The potions situation is definitely tricky. I wouldn't want to take the option away from a hero completely, because once you get to tougher challenges (I'm specifically thinking of the polar war bears in Frozen Horror) some characters can take a dirt nap from a single hit.

[@Mithrandirkun]

@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring My group of players just experienced the first coop mission for the Frozen Horror. Those polar war bears made us cry. I don´d know if we are applying correctly the dual-attack rule. The bear attack twice in his turn and you can only select 1 atack to defend. You ate all the damage from the other atack. It is correct? We finished the Standard Hero quest Campaign, 1 Dwarf, 1 Mage, 1 Elf. Full equipped, with 4 Healing potions each... We ended the 5th Frozen Horror Mission Crying and calling to our mom with 1-2 Healing potions. OMG! Then we Started Kellar's Tower, we will play the Frozen Horror later 😅

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Yeah, the polar war bears attack twice but you can only defend once. I always assumed it worked as follows: 1. Bear rolls to attack. 2. You choose whether to defend or take the full damage. 3. Bear rolls second attack. 4. You roll to defend if you haven't already, otherwise you take the full damage. However, when playing solo against the app, the app rolled both attacks at the same time, and then let me pick which one to defend against. This is obviously slightly more forgiving as you choose which attack to defend with complete information to work from. It's probably better to do it that way, as the heroes have a tough enough time as it is. Frozen Horror is notoriously difficult. I am contemplating whether the dual attack needs to be nerfed so you can roll defence both times. I don't see why you shouldn't be able to. Heroes can normally defend against multiple different opponents without concern. Seems weird they would struggle with two attacks from the same opponent.

[@Mithrandirkun]

@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring Maybe i have to ask to Hasbro/Avalon Hill directly about this rule. But in the Spanish Heroquest Comunity we do the same. You Choose which of the Both attacks you defend, and you ate the other. And as far as i know, why it is done that way, is because this attack is not a second attack. It´s a special rule/attack. It´s a single attack that hits twice so you can only defend 1 time. I don´t know if the rule was the same in the Old Frozen Horror in the 90's that was only released in USA, but yes, the rule is painfull for the heroes and unbalanced, due to the big income in damage. Cheers!

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

It's not a single attack that hits twice, it's two separate attacks that are happening at the same time. So, you have to roll 4 dice and 4 dice, and then you pick one of those rolls to block against and take the full force of the other. The app makes it clear that the bear makes both rolls first and then the hero picks which one to defend against.

[@imalive4u169]

I added a more realistic quality to Heroquest without changing much to the actual game. For example I decided to use movement spaces instead of movement rolls in which the heroes move like the monsters. So in general 6 movement spaces is what every hero can move with the exception of the Rogue which can move 9 spaces. I based these movements upon the mercenaries from The Frozen Horror. If a hero is wearing the plate mail armor the penalty for the heavy armor is 1 space less so normally this would be 5 movement spaces equivalent to the Swordsman. As for the Rogue I based their movement upon the Scout being fast and nimble. Pit traps I added and taken away some rules. Like for example searching for treasure and secret doors is removed but yet the hero is considered being in a separate room. So heroes in pits can't be targeted by projectile attacks or spells which requires a line of sight. If they want to attack or cast a spell upon a hero within a pit they have to be adjacent to the hero. Also moving out of a pit the hero can only move 1 space. Realistically it would take time to climb out of a pit. A for monsters most can move 6 spaces so heroes would have to be cautious engaging monsters in melee combat otherwise escape wouldn't be an option. This also puts the Swift Wind spell more in demand in order to double movement so that a hero could escape. Also Goblins 10, Orcs 8, and Dread Warriors 7 move faster than most of the heroes which presents a challenge of being overtaken by these foes. But Zombies 5, and Mummies 4 are slow because of being undead rotting corpses which makes them easy to outrun for the heroes. The Rogue however, can move quicker than Orcs and Dread Warriors. As for turn order I let the players decide what order their heroes will take a turn. The current order which seems to be working well is Barbarian first so he can scout out areas and search for traps if no monsters are present. Wizard second to get into those areas and cast spells having an easy line of sight going into rooms. Elf third to cover the Wizard and cast spells if nessisary or attack. And clean up is the Dwarf to attack sleeping monsters or pass through walls to get into rooms which might be crowded. As for hired mercenaries during the hero that hired them turn the hero and mercenaries move and preform actions under the control of the player in any order they want like how Zargon controlling monsters. As for the Rogue they could be a good replacement character for the Dwarf. But I tweaked the rule with the Rogue's disarm traps with the same skill as the Dwarf or Scout.

[@73Xerxes]

As always Great Commentary, pointers and last but never the least. Love the paint work on the minis. Your 100% right on Zargon. When you have a person that can play Zargon the game can be very challenging. 👍👍👍👍

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Zargon makes the game. I like to occasionally throw in a, "Hold on... no, carry on," while heroes are moving around. Just for fun.

[@Archaeonomy]

One issue I forgot about that came up recently is dealing with equipment. We have always played that the cards are fixed, to give an element of competition over the limited gear (as opposed to everyone being able to arm up in chainmail, helmet, shield, etc). What should we do when quests (particularly US quests being adapted where there appears to be no limitation on equipment at all) hand out gear in quests and the card is already in play? I have been substituting in gold and potions of equal value, but am interested in how others handle it.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Cards are for reference only. If you buy something, or find something, you write it on your character sheet. The only thing that was ever limited was equipment in the core set for the original UK version of the game, but that rule was changed with the dungeon design kit came out.

[@Archaeonomy]

@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring Wow, really? That would really change how the game plays. We never had the Dungeon design kit back in the day, so I had no idea. We just kept using the rules from the core game.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Yeah, the design kit included new character sheets with a big space for writing all your weapons and armour in. In the US, they never originally had cards at all. Equipment was printed on an insert inside the box.

[@Archaeonomy]

@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring I just looked it up on YeOldeInn. That character sheet looks so strange to me, a lot more useful to be sure, but minus the nostalgia of the original that wasted most of its space on a coat of arms. As an evil wizard I am wondering what the game will be like with every hero rolling 6 defence dice and having a crossbow now...

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

@@Archaeonomy Well, the wizard won’t be, and most people don’t go for the plate armour because of the loss of movement. Lots of people playing the UK rules always kept equipment limited to stop the game getting too easy. It’s not such a concern with the new edition as it’s harder, and once you get to The Frozen Horror the heroes will need all the help they can get!

[@daviddupont517]

I think you have very good point. The only house rules that I like very much (I'm sure I already write it there) is to use body point + 1d6 to move and if don't attack (or something else) move again. Still some random, and the feel of your wound. But still I like your point of view about the move rules and the new rules Healing potion 100% agreed

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Interesting idea to incorporate the damage you have taken into your speed.

[@daviddupont517]

@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring i really like this rules

[@Venomonia]

I made the black shields to become monster abilities to trigger and the white shield to defend the ability or not, same for monsters the white shield is for both. 😊

[@smartgenes1]

It's easy to solve healing potion issue: - 0 is unconscious but -1 is dead. You can drink potion just before unconsciousness but not if you get in negative numbers. It adds a risk but a lesser one.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

You are changing how wounds work then, as heroes can never go below zero body points. I think once you get to things like the polar bears, which can inflict so much damage in a single attack, the difference between 0 and -1 wound probably become minimal anyway and the rule would just be the same as not letting people drink potions when they die at all.

[@holzbergerpeter4480]

One important european rule is, that you can get each weaponcard only once in game. We played it different as kids in the 80s, but I feel the limit adds something to the game. Less is often more as we say in germany

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

The rule is you can only buy equipment if there is an equipment card available, so it was possible to buy duplicates of a few things, and that rule was rescinded when they released the adventure design kit with the upgraded hero sheets. In the European rules you also aren't allowed to keep the potions you find in the treasure deck. But removing those aspects for the US edition probably helped to balance the increase in overall difficulty.

[@mitchiemasha]

Dark World has a shaker with little coloured balls inside for Hero turn order. This is a great idea to use for unique quest designs, randomising Hero turn order. I prefer to use the 1 from Village of Fear expansion because it's free standing, doesn't require the castle.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

The mace of chaos was a really neat part of that game. I used to have all three sets but someone made me an offer I couldn’t refuse.

[@IamRTurner]

How do you handle heroes with multiple weapons, like a crossbow, shield, and battle-axe? Do you restrict the number of weapons they can carry to 1? Do you homebrew rules for switching gear on a players turn, like making it take an action, or make their defense based on whether they used the battle-axe or not on their turn? Or do you just let them attack with the battle-axe and then switch to the crossbow and shield at the end of the turn, letting them have the best of both? There's a lot of room for debate over rules as written vs rules as intended here and I'd like to know how you address this.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

I let heroes swap between their weapons as they wish on their turn without any cost to their movement or actions, as I don't like to slow the game down. However, the weapon they use on their turn is the weapon they must keep equipped until their following turn. So, if they hit someone with a battleaxe, they can't use a shield to defend during Zargon's turn. If they don't use a weapon on their turn, it is assumed they stay armed as they were when they last attacked, unless they specify otherwise.

[@jasonsumma1530]

One addition, not really a fix, is to have a bit more open field for HeroQuest in one of the quests. I know there are a few quests with slightly extra large rooms which are usually boss rooms. I've yet to play any of the mythic tier books so it is possible they have the open spaces but cramped quarters makes it a bit challenging for characters to feel useful.

[@danstampe1665]

I sometimes use the evil wizard cards. And otherwise just my imagination 🙂 had a dart board in use last time we played where the heroes had to find a note with a code to enter the last room and alternately hit the numbers with arrows in the right combination. Two shots for each per Round and by passing with both arrows, a goblin spawned on the board🙂 Will there be more advanced hero quest videos? I hope so 👍😃

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

There will be more Advanced Heroquest on the channel for sure.

[@vo1non]

If you’re dead, you can’t drink a potion. Now, if a fellow warrior is next to you, they can pour it down your throat. Otherwise you are dead.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Something like that definitely feels more realistic. Funnily, that is the exact opposite of the official rule, which states you can drink your own potion when you hit zero body points, but by the time another hero gets to activate it's too late.

[@phboujon]

Hi. I am new to HQ. Is this video referring to the original or new version? When referring to difference between US and EU, does that apply to the new version?

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

HeroQuest is quite a web to unweave. I have done previous videos on the many differences between the European version and the North American version (and still haven't covered every little detail). However, Avalon Hill's new edition is basically a remake/update of the original North American version, so in most cases a difference between the original Euro and original NA editions applies when comparing the original Euro with Hasbro's edition, with just a few minor exceptions (such as Hasbro's new edition using equipment cards, an idea lifted from the Euro edition).

[@robertthurman9866]

It is usually not so much the rules, but when several things happen at once how do you sort them out? Having access to 2 different rule sets is rather nice in examples like this. One set of the rules can give you an idea on how to handle the situation. I'm very surprised the non combat movement was only in the US version as in is simple and makes sense. Maybe a future FAQ will make it an option.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

The unthreatened movement rules didn't exist in any edition until Hasbro released it as an official variant published on their website just a few months ago.

[@michael81vandusky64]

Currently playing through the base game...I find it extremely easy for the players. We are on the 3rd quest and it seems almost every monster is 1 shotted except the fake chaos warriors. I've been playing zargon and I think I'll just upscale the monsters, but the quests are defintely written on what my group would consider an easy mode. I own all the expansions currently, but trying to run the game pure seems way to easy to experienced wargamers without home brewing right away.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

It does skew easy to start. Frozen Horror is a real challenge.

[@markwestbrook8412]

No house ruling of the plate armour so it doesn’t punish your movement quite as much - sir, you disappoint me…. 😀

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

If you want to be a tank, you have to move like one. Although I was just reminded the Guardian Knight doesn't get the movement penalty for plate armour, so that's nice for the six people who managed to get that character.

[@mikolajwitkowski8093]

BTW if anyone is curious can roll and move be an interesting mechanism play Nautilion and be surprised.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

I think almost any mechanism, when employed correctly, can be interesting. I've never played Nautilion, but as I recall it has some kind of dice pool where after rolling you allocate the dice out to different things, so the randomness becomes an integral element of the strategy each turn.

[@DavidGreen_au]

Answer: No. But the Game can improve markedly with them. The initiative function sounds useful, as does ad hoc player order. And I like the default movement allowance when no denizens are around. Even before I was exposed to the US rules, I had often played "boss" denizens as being endowed with more than 1 body point, better defence, etc.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

The first time I played HeroQuest back in '89, my brother was running the dungeon for me, and by the time we got to Ulag, he was already modding the stats to make the bosses more challenging.

[@TexasFriedCriminal]

A balancing rule for life saving potions is to simply rule that potions drank while dying always put you at 1 body point.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

That’s the suggestion I gave in the video. I think it’s a good compromise.

[@KennethWhiteakaruckusbringa]

Hero quest is amazing its very open and house rules are there if you want or not you said it perfectly

[@Chad-Dion]

I love that card idea for combat. The door problem has always been something that slogs the game alot. I have tried using double movement to get through Monsters 1 time per turn , double the door opening.. a few other things.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Doors can be a nuisance. I've seen people come up with special rules for some monsters to give them extra options that can help, like giving the dread warriors the ability to push heroes out of the way, or giving goblins the ability to move through heroes.

[@allenyates3469]

My family and I have home brewed it to the point where it's unrecognizable as hero quest. But my God its fun

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

It's a really easy game to tinker with to suit your tastes.

[@allenyates3469]

@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring we gave all the monsters special abilities and any turn that ends with no monster's in sight allows monsters to spawn at the entrance to the dungeon. Also barbarians are underwhelming once everyone has better equipment so we gave them the ability to throw furniture lol. We do movement like this: roll a die and add your class movement. Dwarf 3 Wizard 4 Barbarian 5 Elf 6

[@fredericetile2505]

thank you for those useful clarifications

[@MrDragonkin]

Does the new version also have two different rule sets?

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

No. Hasbro just used the original US rules set for this new edition.

[@MrDragonkin]

@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring OK. Thanks.

[@williamprm]

Can somebody give me the link to where the avalon hill FAQ is? I can't find it

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

I am not aware of an Avalon Hill FAQ for HeroQuest. They have a dedicated rules section on the Avalon Hill Discord but I don't think they answer many questions there directly.

[@williamprm]

@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring oh, sorry i got confused with the rules variants and clarifications you mention as being on their blog.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

They posted some rules variants in a downloadable quest called Into the Northlands. That's where they first introduced the concept of unthreatened movement. Search for HeroQuest Into the Northlands and you'll find it.

[@johnmiddleton4291]

My favorite house rule is to play Warhammer Quest or Claustrophobia.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Zing. We will never see eye to eye on HeroQuest! I'm surprised you went for Quest over Advanced Heroquest though. I thought AHQ would have been more your jam.

[@johnmiddleton4291]

@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring Most of my fantasy minis match Quest over AHQ. Only real reason. And the witchhunter. I really need to do Descent 2nd ed with the new campaign book - all out of print and not new.... I even have all the expansion boss packs for that campaign.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Witch hunters make everything better. That's a neat collection of Descent 2nd. I've only ever played 1st edition. I don't really care to try the new 3D, app-driven Descent game they have out now.

[@johnmiddleton4291]

@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring I barely have the patience to use a phone as a phone, let alone anything else.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Did you ever try the Journeys in Middle-earth? Every now and again that pops up somewhere and I think, maybe I should try it, and then I just remember how little I enjoy fussing with an app.

[@bramblemat]

a warrior isnt afraid to die. he wants to

[@holzbergerpeter4480]

Only thing that realy slow down the game are traps, there are some unclear rules , like falling rocks blocking doors, speartraps right behind the door that cant be searched and so on. I thought about changing pit traps against attacking monsters whenever a trapdoor is activated. Hate the jumping and climbing out of these holes, slow down the whole game in my point of view. I will for sure adapt the moving rules in future games, even im not keen of houserules at all

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

The US rules do call out the fact there are sometimes traps behind doors. They just say "suck it up." I don't have an issue with any of the trap rules, but it does feel a bit cheap when there are traps you can't avoid like that.

[@HivisoftheScale]

Hmm... I've gone extreme rules, I grabbed a copy of Savage Worlds, and played HeroQuest, Torment of the Spirit Queen. It's proven interesting...

[@TheFluffyDuck]

I found it to easy the monsters died quick and the treasure search could be spammed and abused

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Are you referring to the European version of the game where monsters only have a single body point? Monsters in the US version are more robust. The core game does still skew towards easy (which is where Zargon can get creative and add a few more dangers to spice things up), but once you get to expansions like The Frozen Horror the monsters really don't want to die! You shouldn't be able to spam the treasure search too much. Hazards and wandering monsters return to the deck while treasure is removed as it's found, so eventually the risks outweigh the rewards. When I run the game, I do limit to one search per room, though. It keeps things moving.

[@HivisoftheScale]

Nobody! Nobody wears that platemail! It is just too limiting. Only a d6? Too slow! Unless it's Borin's, never waste money on platemail... 😖

[@jeremycarnes1656]

I just heard a Brit admit a preference for something American. Pardon me while I relish this moment in full 1776 mode. I'll be the guy over there during twin M-16's in the air while an eagle perches on my bicep and a blonde in a star spangled bikini plays a heavy metal riff on a guitar.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

You have better theme parks too.

[@jeremycarnes1656]

@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring having only attended them here, I actually lack the frame of reference to make any meaningful comparison. That being said, I only a few weeks ago discovered that this classic from my childhood was reissued. I immediately bought it. I'm glad it was a hit in the UK as well. Such a great game.

[@vidtracey]

Never stop talking about HeroQuest

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Be careful what you wish for!

[@omenpyro458]

Just play the game as intended.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

I bet I use less house rules than most people as I am not generally a fan of house rules, but I don’t think it’s always that straightforward. Some areas of the rules aren’t clear exactly how things are handled and unthreatened movement is an official rule now, for example. And of course rules were different between the original NA and Euro editions so there is always that debate. I think it’s a fun subject to talk about as HeroQuest is such a playground for imagination.

[@jasonnewell7036]

Heroquest doesn't need fixing. It needs to be left behind. Many games do the same thing better. As a starting point, yes, it is good, but that is exaclty what it is. A start.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Obviously we have a very different opinion of HeroQuest, but thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts.

[@durakis]

curious what other games are like this, serious question. I love Heroquest for the simple rules. I look at other games and they have ridiculous rules, tons of cards to keep track of, or overly complicated things to do each turn.

[@eyeofbraille4659]

I agree with you. I think house ruling HeroQuest is like putting lipstick on a pig, albeit a friendly and fun-loving pig.

[@jasonnewell7036]

@@durakis Descent: Journeys in the Dark is an excellent successor. 2nd edition, though. 1st edition was bloated, but 2nd was much more elegant. The base game was the perfect amount of content. Dungeon Saga: Dwarf King's Hold is also an excellent progression from Heroquest, allowing for a little more crunch without the over simplification of Heroquest's systems. Star Saga is also an excellent take if you want a sci fi flavour. Heroquest's problem is that it is really a kids game. It got me into both my board gaming and roleplaying hobbies, I had a lot of fun playing it physically and on the computer, and I am grateful for what it provided me with, but my tastes have moved on. If I went back to it now, I'd be left facing all the things it is missing that I want from a dungeon-crawl board game.

[@erho2967]

Fix it?? Go straight to jail

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Who me?

[@The_Oubliette]

With movement we give free movement if there are no enemies present but I do like it being limited to 8, may just have to use that. For the health potion item, my friend and I did a house rule that if you are brought to 0 body points and are carrying a potion, you only receive one point to keep you alive which we felt helps balance it out well. You get to stay alive by holding onto it but the value of gaining more back when drinking it makes it more appealing. We also search the "room" as opposed to traps/doors to prevent redundancy.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

I think the one body point rule is a good compromise. I like to keep searching for treasure separate as you don't always want to search for treasure. If you've already got lots of good draws from the deck, or you are low on health and a wandering monster might stomp you, you can still be helpful searching for traps and doors without the risk that comes from digging into the treasure deck more than you need to.

[@HeroQuestFans]

to me the "Unthreatened movement" should be the full movement of the movement dice for that character... so a plate armor wearer would move 6, everybody else moves 12. any monsters on the board and then it converts back to rolling. we've used various things from the above suggested list and the quests are still very long, especially for packs like the Frozen Horror (2-4x longer than the game system). but to those who are impatient, no longer so fast enough and to those who wish to keep playing forever, no length is long enough! I have no problem picking up a game at another session. as long as we had fun this time, it's a success

[@hammerdall]

Our “unthreatened movement” when we played back in the 90s was just to place our characters in our desired formation near the door or bend in the corridor just before any more spaces would become visible, then resume regular movement from there. Sped things up between combat nicely

[@darthkek1953]

Lots of people have the same 1BP rule...

[@AxelAllieu]

Fixing Hero Quest? How dare you, fool?! The Bard has already stated it was the best board game ever. Period. 😁

[@drselewis]

To be fair, the Bard feels that the roll-to-move rule was clearly included for the Snakes and Ladders generation. True officiadoes and masters of the game ignore roll-to-move.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Well, I put it top 5.

[@josephskiles]

I knew someone would beat me to it, I still watch that video when I need a laugh

[@HeroQuestFans]

nearly everyone agrees that HeroQuest needs something but nearly all disagree on precisely what that is. some prefer the game be simplified, while others prefer to add complexity. I tend to keep the game pretty much as is (from the version I grew up playing in the US) but I do sprinkle other stuff on top, taken from the other local editions (similar to how the remake added some of the EU particulars that were missing from the US edition back in). some house rules I've added are specific to streaming it over twitch (people in chat can use their channel points aka gold coins, to "buy" potions for heroes or monsters for zargon for example). I add "uncommon feats" for heroes to indicate plausible actions that aren't normally part of the game with a 50% chance of success (like leaping up on a table to gain an advantage, firing the crossbow over the head of their teammate, etc). when trying to "solve" a difficulty or add my own house rule I tend to look in the other "canonical" editions of HeroQuest (or the draft notes from the designers) to try to see if they've figured out a solution already.

[@jacinto3513]

:) Since Christmas of 1990, I love HeroQuest, and have introduced it to my nephews and to my gf's kids. The only thing id add to HeroQuest is more Quests:)

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

1989 was the big year for me. I've never introduced it to someone who didn't have fun.

[@katherineberger6329]

I have a hybrid roll and move system - Heroes can move freely up to 8 spaces per turn as long as no monsters are in sight. Once monsters are in sight, roll and move is in full effect.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

So, very similar to the official unthreatened movement rules, then. I like the unthreatened movement rule because it still takes into account weight restrictions and special items that increase speed.

[@zombiedad]

I agree about the healing potions. Watch your play through if felt weird taking the healing at 0 Don’t know the solution but that took me just a little bit out of my suspension of disbelief

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

It's definitely a bit odd. Thanks for watching the playthrough too!

[@smartgenes1]

See my reply about -1 is death. So they are on 2bp and lose 2bp they are about to go unconscious and can drink a potion at 0, or another player can give them it. 2bp and lose 3bp, they are dead. It makes unlucky deaths less likely but the possibility of death from larger encounters or when low on bp looms, pushing them to make a decision about healing potions.

[@JimBuschman]

Totally agree with you on movement. That's one of the things I heard alot of negatives about before I had tried the game but for the most part, I think it adds to the tension.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Rolling during combat does add a lot. It's always hilarious when you need three or more to escape behind the barbarian and end up rolling a two, trapping you both in the most inconvenient spot.

[@sabriath]

"i don't think heroquest needs fixing"....yes, it does, for adults. As a child, you may forget from time to time to do certain action (traps/doors searching) that can end in peril for you, but as an adult, you pretty much guarantee that every single turn is all characters searching every single square inch on every single one of their turns when not in combat....and when they are in combat, they funnel back and tactically kill everything before proceeding. This "challenge" is only for children, it is a nuisance for adults. There are other gripes about it as an adult that I won't get into, but the basic point is, it DOES need fixing. I have been working on a new version that adds spice and takes away boredom but maintains the nostalgia of the childlike adventure/risk. For one, I've updated the monsters to have different types of attacks in order to give more combat control so players trying to funnel can be easily thwarted (like goblin double attack while moving through players, orcs able to push/smash players, abominations have long reach spear-like weapons that can hit multiple players, etc.). The second thing I changed is traps...players will no longer search for traps or secret doors, it just takes too long. Instead, traps have a set of numbers noting different behaviors and players roll an extra die (of a different color) when they move and if they move over a trap and matches a number in the list, it does the note. Players with trap knowledge roll 2 instead of 1 and gain the favorable note action. Players who search for treasure cannot move but still roll the extra die/dice, and if the trap is in that room, same thing. The behaviors are one of: found a trap (zargon stops the player in front of it during their movement), avoided the trap (zargon remains silent as if nothing is there), sprung the trap (stop the player on the trap and perform the trap action). This way the players don't even look at the extra die, since the numbers are completely random anyway before the quest begins, so they just move as if nothing is wrong. It makes it fun because it isn't always the first player that gets hurt, could be any of them or none of them. Because of the way some quests put secret doors to the main objectives and searching is done randomly, I have also changed those quests as well. Instead, only normal or locked doors can be between the start and end of any quest. Secret doors are instead used for "side quests" or extra/treasure areas, so if they get missed, it doesn't become a problem. Traps are per-tile and secret doors are per-turn while in LOS. And as always, the extra die doesn't get rolled while in combat....so traps will be triggered always. I also changed how treasure works, but this post is already pretty long.

[@Cuthbo]

Agree with all this! Actually one of the marvelous things about Heroquest is how easy it is to expand and home-rule. I think a general time limit to reach an objective / complete the dungeon actually solves almost all the game's issues with one fell swoop.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

I think that's a reason so many dungeon crawlers now have some kind of time limit imposed on the gameplay. I'm not always a fan of that approach though, which is a bit weird as my favourite game of all time is DungeonQuest, which is all about racing the clock!

[@ahouyearno]

HeroQuest is a very rudimentary rpg rather than a complete game. Just houserule, it allows more roleplaying and more fun

[@imalive4u169]

I made house rules based upon realism and speed of game play. I will explain the two changes I made and why I made them and my family and friend enjoys these changes. Movement I had to change because of the randomness a player couldn't build a strategy for their hero and it also taken away realism from the game. I done away with rolling the 2 red dice and replaced it with a maximum fixed movement spaces which is 6 spaces. I based this upon the mercenaries from The Frozen Horror. Of course other factors in the game also had to be changed like the plate mail armor because of heaviness reduces movement by 1 space making the total movement 5 spaces equivalent to the swordsman mercenarie. And spells were also changed like Swift Wind which instead rolling 2 extra red dice simply now doubles the maximum movement spaces and Disappear the player now rolls the 2 red dice at the beginning of their hero's turn to determine if the spell is still in effect but still move a maximum of 6 spaces. The reason for this change because it makes no sense for a nimble Elf to move slower than a Zombie or a stocky Dwarf to move faster than a Goblin. And sense the majority of monsters move 6 spaces it places pressure upon the players to determine if their heroes will engage in melee combat which would limit their option to flee. And some monsters like Goblins, Orcs, and in the U.S. Dread Warriors are quicker than the heroes who will likely be overtaken. And some monsters that are undead and decaying move slower than the heroes like the Zombies and Mummies which makes them easier to flee from. Also another change I made was combining the two actions Search for Traps with Search for Secret Doors. This greatly speeds up game play and adds realism to the game. With any search a hero would be glancing around the room looking at the floor, ceiling, walls, and furniture in a corridor or room for anything unusual so naturally that would apply to both traps and secret doors. This is different than Searching for Treasure in which the hero would actually check inside crevices in the floors and walls and open table drawers, books on bookshelves, and chests within a room possibly triggering traps. My Heroquest only has five actions: Fight a Monster, Cast a Spell, Search for Treasure, Search for Traps and Secret Doors, and Disarm a Trap.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Searching for traps and secret doors at the same time is actually the official rule from the UK version, and how I always play it. It works much better. I do like to keep roll to move in combat to represent the chaos of that situation and to stop heroes "mathing out" each encounter, but Avalon Hill's new rule of a fixed move of 4 for each dice you would normally roll when no monsters are present works really well.

[@coolgreek79]

I stumbled upon your video and I saw Hero Quest.... good enough for me to earn a new Subscriber

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Thank you for the support.

[@josephskiles]

The best part of HeroQuest............. ( Had to do it)

[@franksiegames]

NO! Not watched the video just wanted to reply to the cover image! I'm all fairness it probably does for this day and age

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

HeroQuest is definitely fine as it is, and certainly not in need of fixing. It's also perfect for tweaking a little here and there to personalise the experience in any way you want to.

[@pst5345]

the monsters need double hp imo. Mostly glass cannons. I immediately let monsters open doors and flee to other rooms if needed. Goblins are perfect for that. They alert their friends who lay traps and call the commander (Ulag or Gargoyle stats) who then starts to hunt the party down actively. This game makes implementing roleplay and little things like alerting rooms so easy and uncomplicated it is just a delight. Btw the remake is NOT competitive. I have the German edition and there is no pvp. The original EU version got that maybe. The remake uses the US rules (potion use when dropping to 0 hp).

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

I never said the remake is competitive between heroes. Hasbro's new edition uses the US rules; the original European edition from 1989 had competitive elements, like being able to zap other heroes with spells and block routes. None of that went into the original US edition, or the current Hasbro edition. However, the US version is more competitive between Zargon and the heroes - as in, more challenging for them, with a much higher risk of death, which is why allowing heroes to drink a potion after death is more important. I actually did a whole video on differences between editions of the game, and have been covering the current edition in depth on the channel for a very long time.

[@zigbyb8140]

When I was doing it (search) meant everything, guess to not drag the game. you had to near the treasure chest etc.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

You can't really search for traps, secret doors and treasure all at once because you obviously need to know if there are traps before you search for treasure - you always need to have that option to stop the search before you activate any traps. Splitting it into traps with doors and then treasure is a happy medium, and the way the original Euro rules had it. Some people change the rules so you have to stand next to each individual piece of furniture to search it but I'm not keen on that because it can make the game drag out too long.

[@gordquigley]

I like the 'Unthreatened movement' rule. Albeit we've always home-ruled that heroes have unlimited movement as long as: 1. There's no monsters 2. They don't see anything new as they travel 3. They specify which path they're taking with their miniature, incase they trigger a trap. Indeed, rolling for movement when there's no monsters does feel like a waste of time.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

The only issue I see with unlimited movement is the possibility of one hero accidentally moving too far ahead of the rest of the team and landing in some hot water., but yeah, I think the game benefits from speeding up those non-combat turns in whatever way works for the group.

[@gordquigley]

@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring Yeah, a lone hero can totally get into trouble! : ) But even though I give my players 'unlimited movement,' in practice they almost always stay within a few tiles of each other because that's what keeps everyone safe! Next time I play I'll try out this Unthreatened Movement rule, and see what my players like more! : )

[@off1k]

Some house rules I used back in the day based on EURO version to make the game a little harder. Search treasure per furniture piece (eg: 2 x furniture = 2 x treasure cards plus quest treasure, search separately), can't search treasure in empty room. A sub rule I had was they could roll 2D6 and if they could roll equal or less than their mind points then they could take an extra treasure card. I will be doing this for HQ 2021 but I have 2 packs of treasure cards but remove trap cards, keep wandering monsters. Wandering monster chance every round: DM roll 2D6 and must score under the quests wandering monster movement and could place anywhere on explored map. Monsters auto picked up dead heroes gold, armour and weapons if no other heroes in same room or corridor, Heroes had to announce picking up. Also between quests I would roll I think 4D6 and this was the available equipment cards from the shop (probably do 6D6 for HQ2021), shuffle equipment and take X amount from the top and the equipment was 1 piece per card. eg : 1 shield card = 1 shield available to buy. There are other rules but can't remember them properly at the moment. With HQ2021 I will be using partial Euro rules for potions, still roll D6 but can't drink potion if 0 body points (you are dead) The fixed turn: I'm going to give the D&D Fantasy Adventure initiative system a try for HQ2021 as I'm waiting on my copy of D&D The Fantasy Adventure game, thanks to you after watching a video of yours I decided to buy that game, that's twice now your videos have helped :) hopefully be here within a week. BTW do you know what sleeve you're using for your old school HQ cards, brand and type?

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Thanks for checking out the D&D coverage on the channel. It's a great game, so I hope you have a lot of fun with it. I covered the card sleeves for HeroQuest in my restoration video, they are Yucatan 54x80mm by Sleeve Kings.

[@Moshladaan]

Health potions were just glorified bottled fairies from The Legend of Zelda. I think it would make for an interesting dynamic if drinking potions counted as an action. Example: Heroic Brew could be taken if you expect combat in the next room, or if you don't have enough movement to attack this turn. Being able to use potions at will should be prohibited, or at least restricted to requiring an unused action.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

I don't necessarily think drinking a potion should be an action. I like that HeroQuest is a bit more freeform and fast-moving without that kind of granularity of action allocation. I wouldn't want a hero to lose a turn of fighting or searching to heal (maybe it could take up your movement for the turn?). However, I think the European rules that won't allow you to drink a potion at the point of death is probably better... although admittedly that rule was designed for use in a game that is somewhat easier than the American version.

[@Moshladaan]

@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring I'll probably change my tune on potions being an action. Drinking a potion just seems like something that would take time and not something you could do to save you from losing your head. I may introduce phoenix downs or something similar in play testing.

[@splatcave3145]

No it's fine as it is 😁

[@Ultimatelylate]

For turn order, if you guys don't have a fix order I strongly suggest having the players roll a d6 for turn activations during combat

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Have you seen Jungles of Delthrak has made official the optional rule allowing players to pick what order they wish to activate?

[@Ultimatelylate]

That's cool, glad they included that

[@GravendalGames]

I’d like something to prevent the barbarian from being a meat shield. I thought of adding some type of a roll to go around heroes or monsters in hallways that are blocked. Like roll a combat die anything but a skull gets you around. If you fail take a hit point.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

I think that's something that Hasbro might lean into more in the future with special abilities. For example, the Rogue Heir has a movement ability that allows them to pass through monsters, and the guardian knight had the ability to take the hit from randomly appearing wandering monsters. I know in the past people have also come up with unofficial special abilities for monsters, so maybe you could have a mobility rule for goblins that lets them move through heroes, or a push ability for dread warriors that allows them to push heroes out of the way.

[@HeroQuestFans]

some don't like these aspects of the game. you can make all the doors 3 squares wide, and print a board with all double wide hallways, allow heroes to search with monsters present and search into open doors, etc. but at a certain point you have a different game (then again, HeroQuest is all about making up your own stuff, so that's fine!). if a person just wants to use the HeroQuest assets to play D&D, they can certainly do that too...

[@GravendalGames]

@@HeroQuestFans Well good news. I’m working on a new game. But HeroQuest is close to my heart, so I’m definitely look at it as inspiration.

[@fusoya6544]

I use Skaven with a special ability that enables them to "Scurry" past the heroes and move through them. This is intended to reflect their lightning speed and agility.

[@Nytrusdeathcyde]

as far as im concerned its a board game in board games u roll dice to move

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Well, when I was growing up in the 80s a lot of my board games were roll and move, but of the many hundreds of games I own now, I expect no more than 10 use roll and move, and they're mainly the vintage ones.

[@jacobbusby8007]

0 body Points = Unconsciousness - unavailable, for the remainder of this quest. -2 = Dead. One treasure search per room, plus one treasure search for each piece of furniture.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

So, you remove the rule that states a hero can't go below 0 body points. As other heroes can collect up a fallen hero's items (as long as the monsters don't get it first), what is the difference between an unconscious hero coming back for the next game and a dead hero being replaced with a new hero of the same class that can just have all the previous hero's kit?

[@jacobbusby8007]

@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring Emotional connection with the character.

[@Heroes_of_Qalanor_RPG]

Furniture - this needs fixing. It seems pointless to have it on the board.. what would be better is if you can interact with it, as in searching for treasure etc.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

I think furniture is fine. It does several things. First it changes the shape of a room, impeding movement on spaces that would otherwise be accessible or blocking line of sight in the case of high obstacles. Secondly, when you search a room, you also search the furniture, and that may result in a special treasure. Often the presence of furniture is a good indication that you should search that room. Finally, some furniture has special rules under certain circumstances. A notable example is the forge in Kellar's Keep, but there are other instances of furniture doing something that I won't go into for spoiler reasons.

[@the_Sleepy_Druid]

I do often find furniture to be cumbersome but it would feel weird taking off. I always assumed that the searching action included the heroes looking over the furniture if the room included any.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

The search action does incorporate searching any furniture. It will say in the quest guide something like "the treasure chest holds 150gp" or "on the bookshelf the hero finds a potion of healing."

[@Heroes_of_Qalanor_RPG]

@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring yes.. but that's only in the description.. you don't have to have the scenery there to do it unfortunately

[@jasonsumma1530]

I just got done teaching HeroQuest to 3 of 4 new players. The 4th player hadn't played in several years. One player decided to go classic dumb barbarian route and enjoyed flipping the furniture over which I allowed. Usually it is done via searching for treasure and in case flipped a table over only to step on some spikes in the floor by drawing the hazard card.

[@lucarocks7866]

Everything Heroquest sounds more epic when spoken with your accent! Don't stop with the great HQ content

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Thanks. I don't think my accent and epic have ever been used in a sentence together! There will be plenty more HeroQuest to come. I still have a third solo barbarian mission to get on the channel at some point soon.

[@stephenbaker6730]

Nice video, well presented and great comments.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Thanks for the kind words, I really appreciate it.

[@geoffwhitemusic]

No

[@Carlphish]

In order to avoid the dawdling issue, I just say that if Zargon's turn comes up and there are no monsters on the board, Zargon may add one wandering monster to the board at a closed door, or at a corridor corner within line of sight of any hero.

[@servbot30]

I think a good compromise with the American rules potion would be that a downed player would have to be given the potion from another player within a turn or two.

[@dancoles2235]

Good video. Great suggestions!

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Thank you.

[@1000jjwalker]

I agree.. I love the American rules but I'd prefer to alture it if a problem arises.

[@StabSam]

There are also rules for fate cards, which can lead to either a positive or negative event. Everytime there is no monster on the board Zargon may roll a D10 and on 1 or 2 a fate card is drawn. This adds some sort of clock (like your 5 skull tokens) since eventually a really bad fate card will be drawn! And i always remove the come back to live with a potion rule. I find the strategic using of potions vital for a rather easy game like HQ. I like the rule for "unrestricted" movement with no enemies . Might use that for my next game.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

That is a rule lifted straight from Advanced Heroquest, where the GM accrued dungeon counters they could play when they wanted to create ambushes, rescue named villains, and so on. The main way to get them was during each exploration phase, where the GM earned a token on the roll of 1 or 2 on a D12.

[@yodaflyz]

I need to call my knight No One now. Not everyone could get the knight packs so you may not of known this but the knights movement is unrestricted by armor as stated on the back of the character card.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Actually I do recall that from the time, but yeah, lot's of people never got that character, including me. Besides, I wouldn't want to let a little thing like a fact get in the way of a good joke.

[@christopherjakel1049]

The Yeti in The Frozen Horror is Broken AF. The way the Yeti works is when it attacks, if it gets even a single hit against a hero... It starts a Hug attack. The Hug Attack does 2 indefensible damage to the hero on every subsequent Zargon turn until either the Hero dies or the Yeti is slain. The hero is stuck in the hug. While being hugged, the hero can neither attack nor defend nor move. Basically they are reliant on another hero saving them by killing the Yeti (which also attacks no one else. It is locked in this attack) So why is this a problem: 1. In the first 3 quests of The Frozen Horror, the quests are solo (and mercenaries cannot yet be purchased) so basically.... there is no one to save you and [SPOILER UP NEXT FOR NON ZARGON PLAYERS] ....... There is 1 yeti in each of the 3 solo campaigns.... which means if you sustain even a single point of damage from any one of these Yetis, it's game over..... (without house ruling it of course) 2. [SPOILER AHEAD FOR QUEST 7 OF THE FROZEN HORROR FOR NON ZARGON PLAYERS]........ The wandering monster in quest 7 "The Halls of Kelvinos" is 2 Yetis. Another component introduced to expansions beyond the core game is the Wandering Monster trap ... which is uniquely separate from most other traps in that it cannot be detected when searched for. This is problematic because (again.... without house ruling it) when a wandering monster arrives, either by trap or card from the treasure deck, the rules state that all wandering monsters are to be placed as close as possible to the hero who sprung the trap/searched the deck, and are attacked immediately by as many of the wandering monsters as are able to do so. So... there is a higher likelyhood that this hero will get hugged. The broken part of this problem is that most of these traps are in the narrow halls so there is a strong chance the hero will be surrounded and a guaruntee that at least 1 yeti will be on the far side of the hero (away from his allies) so the hugged hero will be a LINE OF SIGHT block between the Yeti and the Hero's allies who need to save them...... Yes (this is a big problem). There are some attacks (spells) that do not require line of sight and other options (also spells) like Pass Through Rock as a means to get behind the far yeti.... but these options are limited and also not guaunteed to succeed... meaning if these very few options to attack (and kill) the far Yeti or get behind the far Yeti fail.... the hero being hugged is now 100% going to die..... even with a million healing potions.... and the Narrow halls are not the only choke points. A blocked door without a diagonal attack option, a piece of furniture.... or a petrified hero/monster all create the same problem. 3. Particularly in later quests in The Frozen Horror, the Yeti is often not alone amd worse still, it is often accompanied by other very powerful enemies such as the Polar Warbear, Chaos/Dread Warriors and some Bosses. So having rooms with a large congestion of difficult enemies and one being the Yeti that creates a "must solve immeadiately" problem every time it is successful with a single hit makes this enemey IMO by far the most deadly OP monster in Zargons armies. Now.... as I have owned The Frozen Horror since its release in 1994 I have had..... quite a while to come up with fair House Rules for the Yeti to keep it a balanced enemy (respectfully, IMO) 1. As Zargon.... do not use the Yetis in the 3 solo quests or if you do use my 2nd house rule. 2. Create an escape role for the hero 50/50 chance, 1-3 (the hero escapes the hug) 4-6 (the Hug continues) with the hero still sustaining the 2 damage on the turn he/she escapes. And 3. Break the Line of Sight rule. (Think of it like the pit trap rule in the core game when a hero falls into one, another hero may stand on their head to attack a monster on the far side of the trap)..... In this case, think of it as the Yeti as it is picking the hero up off the floor exposing its own belly for another hero to duck under and attack. I do think the hug needs to be left in the game. Without it the monster has no uniqueness and is now basically just a Fimir/Abomination with more body points. There are other rules that need tweaking and yes... Zargon is the ultimate authority.... but just remember that the game.... as the rules are currently written...... the Yeti is the Real FROZEN HORROR..... and there are lots of them.

[@DiscobiscuitUK1]

Heroquest is full of areas that demand homebrewing, and I think therein lies the beauty of the game. Many of the rules you mentioned I agree on. Good discussion! Missed your touch on Heroquest, can never have too much!

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

While I wouldn't go so far as to say the game demands homebrewing, it does really benefit from that streamlined rules set that makes it very easy to plug in little things here and there to keep the game interesting for you and everybody else at the table, which is nice.

[@christopherjakel1049]

@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring it demands homebrewing if you find my post about the Yeti. The Yeti is broken and requires tweaking. The I do agree with you that the game itself is still a very good game and really doesnt require too much polish.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

@@christopherjakel1049 Yetis are broken for solo quests. Hasbro admitted as much and for the Into the Northlands download they included a note that yetis should never use their hug in solo missions.

[@garethmason7920]

Great video. Coming from a D&D background I'll always add RP to the missions. Sometimes a lonely monster may help the hero's but then betray them right at end etc. I always have 2 house rules, the movement is fixed if no monsters and only one character can search. I also allow (so this a 3rd lol) if an ally has a Healing Potion on them and they are within 1 square of a fallen hero they can throw Thier healing potion at them to keep them standing.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

I don’t add much role playing to existing quests but if I was doing my own quests I would add a lot of that. Now that Avalon Hill have introduced fixed movement in non-combat turns I guess we have to stop calling it a house rule now!

[@garethmason7920]

@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring shhh we came up with it first ! Lol

[@garethmason7920]

I do have one question. Do you think limiting the search for treasure to one party member makes the game harder in terms of the hero's not accumulating enough hold to upgrade equipment

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

@@garethmason7920 I think limiting searching to once per room really helps with balancing. Heroes get so much loot anyway and it just slows it down enough to prevent them from being overpowered after two quests. It also keeps gameplay faster.

[@eerieghosts]

The wording of your thumbnail is very smart, since it doesn't necessarily imply the game system wouldn't be better without house rules. I like that. Reading all the comments here, on reddit, bgg etc. there seems to be a consensus that furniture w/out any game mechanics as mere terrain filler is a missed opportunity. I like the 1+(furniture) search house rule a lot, with inspecting the room itself not requiring any movement, whereas inspecting furniture requiring adjacency (so that trap positioning becomes more meaningful again.) Is it a functional, fun and fast paced game by the book? Yes. Is there room for improving the experience? Yes.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

I think almost everyone plays HeroQuest with a tweak or two. It's such a streamlined system, and with there being two distinct rules sets for it as well as a few areas that have never been clearly defined, lots of people pick and combine elements. I'm not a big fan of house rules in general, but I use quite a few for HeroQuest.

[@fusoya6544]

One of my favourite games of all time! My custom rules keep with the basic simple gameplay that I feel help improve it even better are- 1. Enhancing the Wizard using a custom Magic (better attack magic - for only 4BP Wiz has to be able to deal more damage) and Equipment deck using the cards from Wizards of Morcar. 2. Using the Tokens from Advanced Hero Quest as "Chaos Tokens" to give Morcar something to do. 3. Utlilising the Mind Points (I use the Star dice from D&D FABG for casting spells- if a star isnt rolled then Hero loses 1 Mind Point. I created a Potion of Wisdom to heal MP's. 4. Initiatve - exactly the same as yours (how wierd!) but for different reasons - Barbarian kept blocking the door. 5. Between quests - I have a Tavern deck and an Inn to restore BP/MP and both costs Gold. 6. The boards from D&D FABG for more variety, bigger rooms and open spaces. Many custom rules I read I find are far too complicated and break away from the pick up and play style gameplay.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Yeah, I don't feel HeroQuest needs to be complicated, but it's nice to have such a streamlined rules set that allows people to go that way if they want. Advanced Heroquest really lives up to its name and fleshes out or course corrects some of the things from HeroQuest that get discussed as requiring tweaks. I don't tend to do anything with mind points though as I am playing the US rules these days and the mind points have more of a purpose.

[@Muzzsjm]

I've added my own Evil Wizard deck using the ideas posted on Ye Olde inn for when no monsters are active. Essentially on the Zargon turn you draw one card from a deck of 40 cards these can be dungeon effects like moving doors, flooding the dungeon basically elements that make the game a bit more random. Flooded dungeon slows movement speed, roll less movement dice etc or for example I have a smoke filled room card that means ranged weapons cannot be used. Theres buff cards Zargon can hold and then play in combat to aid monsters and I've got 10 nothing happens cards so it doesn't become too tough. My favourite card is the intelligent monsters one it means wandering monsters are now able to move away from heroes and alert other monsters rather than just attacking. Making the players chase monsters adds a unique element or risk to the game. Does a single hero run off to try and stop hordes of monsters being activate an risk engaging a group alone or do the heroes stick together and risk multiple rooms being opened.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Nice. It's a fun idea to give Zargon even more evil tricks to play.

[@BlackDouglas1000]

I like using unthreatened movement. If you think of the roll to move as a sort of initiative roll it makes more sense. Could it be used to determine turn order as well? Each player rolls and that is the order the move in as well (how to break ties?). Monster move on the card is their initiative as well. In any case roll and move makes sense from the perspective of people in a strange, dark, dangerous, slippery place inhabited by things that want you dead. Without realizing it you just might not always move to your full potential.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Interesting idea. I think it might make more sense to incorporate the mind value as some form of initiative order, rather than the movement dice rolls. Definitely agree that rolling to move helps to create that immersive feeling of being in a dark, cramped place.

[@KentKaliber]

THANK YOU for your insightful videos on Heroquest!!! You really do a great job showcasing this game!

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Thanks for the kind words. I'm glad you are enjoying the coverage.

[@matthewkirkhart2401]

Our house rule for heroes moving when there are no monsters on the board is all players roll 2 dice for their movement, but only the highest roll is used, and it is used for all heroes. Speeds things up, keeps the players rolling dice which they generally like, and allows the heroes to more or less stick together. I hate the American healing potion rule. We allow a hero to drink it any time during the turn, but not if they are at 0, because at 0 they are dead. I am totally stealing the timekeeping with skulls rule you propose. I might tweak it for when a treasure comes up. Not only does it get discarded and the heroes cannot get that treasure later, but they each have to pay 1 red die of gold (each player rolls for their hero) for food and water consumed. If they can’t or won’t pay they lose a health point. I wanted to work in a provisions rule but I didn’t want them to buy them, this would be simpler.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

I'm not keen on the American potions rule, but I see why they did it, especially when you get to expansions like the Frozen Horror. A polar bear can whack you for 8 body points of damage, and being able to drink a potion after that can prevent a sense of frustration or being cheated. Making it so you only get one body point if you drink a potion after death feels like a fair compromise, even if it doesn't feel quite right to let dead players sip on a potion. That's an interesting idea about provisions. Advanced Heroquest worked it into the system with a cost of living rule that you paid between adventures. It worked better there because you might not complete a dungeon in a single sitting, and if you keep leaving and going back, you end up paying a lot more gold.

[@dropkick79]

I want to say the last game I ran our movement was defaulted to six or eight...I can't recall. They still rolled dice though and if they rolled above that set number, they would take the higher. I do like the movement options discussed here too so may have to weigh that with the players. I also like the one treasure search per room. Though I'm guilty of doing the on search per piece of furniture. That skull tokens being pulled for each round without a monster though...I definitely will put that into play.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

It's all about finding those options that the whole group is happy with. It's nice that HeroQuest is so easy to tinker with - you don't have to unravel a lot of rules to add in something new.

[@haydnc]

Great video as always. The thing that upsets me more than randomised movement is the "no moving diagonally" thing. It's not that it's a broken rule or anything, it just doesn't feel "realistic" enough and spoils the immersion a bit.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

It's never worried me that much. At least it keeps things simple. I can see where you're coming from though.

[@goodjessehobbies]

You make an interesting argument for keeping role to move. I don't care for it for the fact that monsters have fixed movement, it just 'feels' odd to me. Thanks for pointing out the fact that it is actually one of the mechanics that makes the game more challenging for the heroes. In my experience, it's almost always easier for the hero's then it is for Zargon. Similarly, I didn't like how enemy movement worked in Dark Souls at first. The fact that you are encouraged to move the enemies to your benefit while still technically making them move closer to your heroes. I always lean toward trying to simulate a GM and so I would make them move straight for me until I realized just how difficult the game was. But an interesting thing happened when I started to move the enemies as strategically as possible and, in my favor. I discovered that each enemy movement phase is a wonderful and thought-provoking puzzle that is constantly moving. It was really FUN to try and figure out how to follow the rules but also manipulate the board in a way that my heroes could work with. Perhaps I will revisit my home rules for movement for HQ. I think a hybrid of mechanics would be great. I ended up house ruling that heroes can only carry one of each type of potion at a time, one healing potion of any value, one stamina, etc. I only allow one treasure to be discovered per room. Every Zargon activation without monsters on the table I roll a combat die, on a black shield a wandering monster surprise attacks the hero of my choice.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

I have to say, a 1 in 6 chance of a wandering monster every non-combat term seems a bit high to me. I would be concerned it would drag the adventures out a bit too long. The Euro rules don't allow you to keep any potions you find from the treasure deck between adventures. That's quite a good way to prevent heroes from stockpiling too much stuff, without reducing their desire to search for treasure. Dark Souls is an incredibly clever game. You have to play the puzzle from both sides, and when you do it becomes incredibly interesting. One of the things people seem to overlook at first is when an enemy moves into a space that is already full, you can choose to push a hero out, which may save them from an attack. Things like that. The dynamic movement of the game is actually a bit of genius.

[@goodjessehobbies]

@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring I will have to get a copy of the European Rules for reference the next time I play, which could be a decade from now but still. I really like that about the potions, as an option. Thanks.