Does HONEY QUALITY matter in mead? Testing CHEAP vs. EXPENSIVE honey in a Hydromel

[@CitySteadingBrews]

Good test. Makes sense that with less honey in the mead, the quality would be less important. Nicely done.

[@masterofshadows8904]

Ayy you watch this channel too?? Love y'all! Good to see you guys here!

[@andrewinnocent5280]

Please do a colab guys, my two favorite brewtubers

[@nulvinge]

This was awesome! A triangle test removes preconceptions, which creates a more interesting fact based discussion, which I found more interesting to watch.

[@DointheMost]

I definitely feel this was the most sciencey approach!

[@theastronomer5800]

I think these used different types of honey, which will end up with slightly different tastes that one person may prefer over the other to start with. A better comparison would be with a cheap wildflower and an expensive wildflower for example.

[@MarcBryan]

> if you want to crush 5 of these after mowing you lawn You are speaking to my soul

[@bryanshealy1068]

The real question is whether or not they tested the cheap honey to make sure it was real honey and not supplemented with cheap fructose.

[@DointheMost]

Monarch's Choice is a fairly well-trusted brand for bulk honey, particularly among the mead-making community. It's just not very complex/interesting honey.

[@jbtravelssolo7596]

@@DointheMost Monarch's Choice online is 50+ bucks per 5lb. I thought you said in the video the cheap honey was $2 per lb

[@DointheMost]

@@jbtravelssolo7596 at the time of recording, a 60 lb pail was $120.

[@KnobbyWobby]

Did you ever do the next session with backsweetening? I can't seem to find the follow up

[@albrough]

did the follow-up video of using cheap/expensive honey to back sweeten ever happen? I can't seem to find anything link that in your catalogue...

[@hman2912]

Love these kind of videos. Cheers lads ... And lady

[@DointheMost]

Thanks for watching! We had a lot of fun making it!

[@beefburito]

So... When you gonna do the backsweetening test?

[@ethanshenk2058]

Question because i have started my first mead and i keep having to refill my airlock alot is this common or is there something wrong with my airlock and need a new one

[@nicklancaster3190]

The lesson learned is: you never know until you try. 7:02 sums my experience with most beverages.

[@DointheMost]

We had a lot of fun putting this one to the test! Gave us some good ideas for other triangle tests to do in the future…

[@itsjavaman]

How long did you age your mead?

[@cheekysaver]

I am loving these experiments. I would love to see the differences with full strength batches 10 to 14% even if it was just a one gallon batch. (Mannnnn are YOU going to be ready for christmas this year!)

[@DointheMost]

Interesting idea - I have a couple of five-gallon traditionals I need to get brewed and bottled for another experiment, but maybe we can tackle this after that!

[@Daniel-zq3wq]

12:15 ey, that's what I was going to suggest. Months later... But back-sweetening might make a bigger difference with better honey because it doesn't get ripped up by fermentation, you'll keep more of the raw flavor.

[@kilroy07]

Awesome and informative! (chuckled at the Oregon trail reference!) LOL

[@DointheMost]

I just hooked up my Apple II and played a game of Oregon Trail the other day after editing that part in! Haha

[@djpolancih]

I miss that game sometimes. Apple IIe were the computers we had in my high school. So hard to replicate the simplicity of those graphics. Hook me up with some Carmen San Diego and it is 27 years ago lol

[@DointheMost]

Doug Polancih Oh man you’re taking me back now!

[@Zeke8762]

Great test! Do you have a preference to Patreon or KZbin membership? Does one get more back to you than the other?

[@DointheMost]

I think the KZbin memberships are more fun for subscribers - mainly because of the chat benefits during live streams. But we kind of have them both structured the same and I think they have about the same return. Thank you for considering us! And thanks for watching!

[@Aldrahill]

MATE yes, I was hoping for a video like this, because I was internally debating about using my lovely honey from my hive, but I've almost completely run out of it, and I want to make your blackberry hydromel! Was debating buying some cheaper honey, so I'll watch this video to find out :D

[@DointheMost]

Glad we could help! I was stunned by the minute differences between the two.

[@djpolancih]

Great vid as always! I have a prediction for the next one. I think because the back sweetened honey remains unfermented, it is going to be much more discernible. I would be curious if a still room temperature mead might have betrayed the quality more readily in this test. But, it makes me feel better about my cheap Costco wildflower honey I have been using lol. I might spring for the good stuff for the back sweetening of my cherry cyser depending what your tests reveal 🙂

[@DointheMost]

We’ll see! After this test I’m not sure we’ll be able to discern. I need to get those batches going (and empty some kegs!)

[@davidchristianson659]

So I've seen you on man made mead a few times thought you'd be a stand up guy I didn't make it 20 seconds before audibly laughing twice then immediately subscribing can't wait to see the rest of this video.

[@themightyparthos]

Different stokes for different folks is what this video seems to sum up. I taste subtle differences and others may not. As long as we all get what we want... Cheers!

[@GreenWitch1]

Nice experiment! Answers a couple questions. Thanks guys & gal 😎

[@DointheMost]

Glad to be helpful! 😁 Happy weekend.

[@GreenWitch1]

Doin the Most Sorry to bother you, but I’m freakin our! I’ve never used tannins b4, so after our conversation, I ordered some. I added the recommended amount per gallon on a mango wine that’s really special to me. My neighbor gave me the mangoes fresh off his tree & I worked my ass off cutting them up. I racked it & added fresh/frozen mangoes 6 days ago. Everything looked fine until I added the tannin. It’s getting darker everyday to the point it’s gross. I feel like it’s rotting my fruit & I want to rack it a week too soon. Have you had this happen? Is it normal! I can’t fuck this up! It’s 4 gallons.

[@DointheMost]

Michele Borland As long as you’re punching the cap regularly you shouldn’t worry. Tannin shouldn’t have any effect on the fruit. Even my most disgusting looking wines have cleared to beautiful gold eventually.

[@GreenWitch1]

Doin the Most Thank you! It’s really ugly right now 😳 I’ll remain calm & go with it.

[@danharkness7868]

@@GreenWitch1 I am curious how your mango wine turned out. Would you please share?

[@ericf7063]

Watching this brought up some interesting notions to me. From a historical perspective, nothing or very little went to waste. Use what was available, on hand or left over or else it went to waste. Generally as a rule, left over, on hand and available does not always equal top shelf quality. So your average everyday Baldric was drinking the remnants of last seasons left overs and surpluses. Oh I'm sure there were exceptions as evidenced by written recipe's but the mere fact of them being written indicates wealth and privilege. No, the average brew came from humble stuff. So it's no surprise to me that if top quality ingredients are used, you'll get superior results. However, what stood out to me was that they were debating nuances between expensive and cheap ingredients that most people wouldn't notice. Which to me, drives home the point that in the hands of a skilled and competent brewer, high quality results can be obtained from "iffy" ingredients.

[@princevesperal]

But honey never goes bad. The sugar content is so high in pure honey that no microbial life can live there and make it rot. There would never be an urgency to use honey "before it went to waste".

[@lesm3652]

I thought you were tasting to see which you preferred but realized your trying to taste out the expensive honey

[@zacharylindahl]

great video! now I dont feel bad about using the cheap honey

[@DointheMost]

This is by no means exhaustive but it was a FASCINATING result!

[@nelathan]

Please compare the cheap with 49% sugar +51% cheap honey

[@paulalarocca8315]

Enjoyed watching the experiment. I have a batch of the hydromel going as we "speak". Started it yesterday! Used blackberry honey. It is a dark honey so the final product will be darker.

[@DointheMost]

Can’t wait to hear how that turns out!

[@cryptonym123]

Was this really a test of cheap vs expensive? Seems like the one could have been cheaper because it was a bulk buy? I would think a fairer comparison would be expensive “organic raw boutique brand” wildflower or clover vs Walmart bulk brand equivalent wildflower or clover

[@magacop5180]

I’m wondering something like that too. I’m thinking of making a video for it

[@billymarkwell1105]

Just watched your video.............and wondered..........what makes one honey more expensive than another......in my search for an answer, I found this ..........The very first kilogram of Elvish honey was sold on the French stock exchange five years ago, and it went for $45,000 (about $61,000 dollars ..........I'd say someone had more money than they have sense.....

[@magacop5180]

😂

[@magacop5180]

I’d like to have that problem.

[@Aldrahill]

Okay, I’ve watched it now, here are my thoughts: I think a big part of why the two honeys would be different is going to be jaded on their individual honey origins. For a honey to be labelled as a particular type of honey, it has to contain a majority of that type of honey. There is no requirement for it to be a single source. I think a good reason for the higher price of the expensive honey is that the majority of it was a single source honey, either from one apiary or several within a close area. The cheaper honey was almost certainly a constituent blend of honeys from all over the place, likely with other honeys mixed in that were not orange blossom. I think it likely that the main reason you guys preferred different ones is because of a preference for particular types of honey. You probably like orange blossom more, so you consequently liked the mead made with honey that used more actual, single sources orange blossom honey. I also think that there needed to be some sort of variability for the amount of acidity used in the brews - I’ve found that the acidity of individual honeys varies surprisingly, and needs different levels of balancing depending on the honey. The honey I’m using for my brews at the moment is from our hive, and it is mostly blackberry, with a fair amount of lime and clover as well, so we’ll see how well it stands up in the recipe!

[@DointheMost]

Thanks for this very reasoned and thought-out reply. We actually talked about trying different varietals in the future (that ended up on the cutting room floor) to account for my orange blossom preferences. I have 60 lb of blueberry honey on the way - maybe that’s a good candidate! Thank you again!

[@Aldrahill]

@@DointheMost No worries, I find the science of it all really interesting and am looking forward to getting more into it :) Never tasted blueberry honey, but I've heard great things among my beek friends! you ever considered just getting hives yourself? I'm looking forward to an experiment wherein I make a blackberry mead using the leaves of the plan for the tannin, as they are stupid rich in tannins. Need to experiment more :P

[@DointheMost]

Anna has been exploring the idea of getting our own hives but our backyard is only about 6000 sq ft, so we have limited space to operate all the things we wanna do! Please keep me updated on that tannin experiment! Sounds wildly interesting 😃

[@Aldrahill]

@@DointheMost Do it! Our garden is super tiny and we've fit them in just fine, managed to get them in a super sunny spot. Will do! Probs next month when I get my next harvest is when I'll start :)

[@zinothofchaos]

Do you think the difference in taste preferences might be due to complex vs simple tastes preferences? I think David said he like the simpler/purer taste(?) and that might mean the difference between your choices. My mind links these preferences with the same differences between some people liking beer over wine and vice versa. Maybe have an experiment with a couple more people that prefer beer/ale and some that prefer wine and do the same tests? That could be an interesting experiment.

[@DointheMost]

I’m gonna have to let David know he might have “simple” taste, haha! In seriousness, it’s hard to know. The differences are INCREDIBLY subtle. I have a big experiment planned that may help solve some of this though...

[@andrewburchill5212]

Yeah I'm not surprised. If those Brülosophy experiments have taught me anything, it's that it's VERY difficult to tell similar brews apart, even if they vary in one (presumably!) key ingredient. I think all the cultural (& scientifically bogus) hype around wine has led us to think that we can pick up on minute differences in flavor when maybe we can't.

[@DointheMost]

I am surprised based on how different the honeys are pre-fermentation. Wild!

[@kauerpc]

I think "we" normal untrained people cant, but trained people and people who invest their time and interest, can. When I did basic wine training, the guided tastings were very nice, fun and different than tasting on my own.

[@mitchspurlock3626]

many studies have shown that even "sophisticated sommeliers" have trouble telling the difference between top dollar and economy wines

[@DSK2007]

Very nice

[@DointheMost]

Thanks for watching!

[@l0tus4life]

Two bro's one cup ....

[@DointheMost]

8 cups, tbh

[@tattoolimbo]

Wrong? Not wrong about what you like better. They weren't supposed to be finding the more expensive but which they liked best.

[@bodvarson1933]

Aldi tends to have good honey for cheap. I don't find that I have to have one or the other with the stuff I find there. It's not super local brands, but I've found some that shows that it's from the US region that I live in at the least. I know there's fake or liar honey out there, but it's been great so far.

[@Dogstickfetch]

MONARCH'S CHOOOOOOOICE!!!! MY cheapo cheapo jam.

[@DointheMost]

"She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts, kid."

[@themightyparthos]

This honey is pasteurized so..

[@Dogstickfetch]

@@themightyparthos no one cares what you think

[@themightyparthos]

@@Dogstickfetch Good on you then!

[@bruceprosser8332]

As usual, flavor is subjective.

[@Brandon-jw5cv]

Can you use a local wildflower versus big box honey? Orange Blossom is such an inexpensive honey already, I feel like "fancy" orange blossom honey is just marked up...it should never really be that expensive. Local wildflower versus big box honey is real honey versus rice syrup and illegally imported Chinese honey. Would be interesting to see.

[@townsville69]

My friends are bee keepers and their honey is amazing. They told me most of the stuff you buy from the supermarkets (esp the cheap stuff but also the big brands) is full of trash honey from china and produced in way that would make you gag if you knew. It's kind of like the difference between buying an apple from an organic farmer at a local market for $1 or buying an apple from Chernobyl for 2c. The government (in my country) did a test of supermarket honeys and found over 70% were full of bulk junk honey from china.

[@DointheMost]

It seems like a lot of the honey we find in grocery stores here has honey from the Ukraine. I’m not sure what that means for quality, but it sure does seem like Ukraine produces a lot of bulk honey! 🤔

[@townsville69]

@@DointheMost I stick with the local stuff. Buying in 2 litre bottles keeps the price to only a few dollars more than big name brands. The owners love their bee's and put a lot of time and effort into producing honey that tastes so much better than store bought stuff. Plus the added bonus of supporting local farmers and low food miles. Plus happy bees feed on local flowers must have more good stuff in it than factory honey.

[@DointheMost]

townsville Sound For flavor alone, I definitely prefer smaller producer’s honey. That typically means farmer’s markets or online ordering for us - the “big” local brand in our state is just a honey blend producer sadly. It’s bland and just sugary. And pricey.

[@Brandon-jw5cv]

It's Chinese mixed with Rice Syrup. Ukraine is a notorious Chinese Honey re-exporter.

[@shaevillas5958]

Lol that’s not expensive.. the most expensive Honey in the world is Elvish Honey, it’s made in Turkey and costs up to $6,800 per Kilo.. lol whoever decided to make a mead with that is either insane or Rich as hell 😂

[@magacop5180]

The wealth gap in Turkey is insane

[@magacop5180]

At least in America we have the illusion of a Middle

[@yesihavebedbugs2786]

What about real expensive honey? Like Manuka as an example. 2 a pound vs 6 a pound does not seem that great a difference in honey pricing.