Does it Transcend YA?? (An Ember in the Ashes review | Sabaa Tahir)

[@PirateQueen1720]

Seeing this is funny, because I was JUST having a conversation with friends that was basically "Why do I feel so disappointed in YA novels when I often like middle-grade and I love a ton of manga that star teenagers and are aimed at teenagers?" I think it is that a lot of English-language YA novel (whether fantasy, contemporary, or whatever) try to act all edgy and mature but don't fully commit. Middle-grade books, on the other hand, are free to be fun and whimsical, and manga are basically picture books (always fun) that tend to be a bit more self-aware about how silly teen drama is but also really commit to the darker elements. There's trauma all over the dang place, and - in the better manga, obviously - it feels more real because the characters carry that damage for years and it affects their behavior...but they generally aren't angsty 24/7, because that's not how that works. This also kind of relates to the weak world-building in a lot of YA: Hand-waving the worldbuilding kinda works when it's just "Who cares! We're having a fun adventure!" but if you're trying to do something like political drama then the story needs to feel like the author understands the world even if they haven't revealed it all to YOU yet. Also, as my friend pointed out, I kinda hate first-person except in mystery or horror stories, and every other frickin' YA book is written in first-person!

[@leigh-anjohnson]

I wonder what this story would have been like if we only had Leia's pov and we didn't know where Elyas stood. If we don't know that Elyas is a good guy then we would feel much more tension and danger from Leila's perspective in her interactions with him, and she could be wondering 'is he really helping me, is he going to hurt me' and the audience would be wondering the same thing.

[@unresolvedtextualtension]

Oh, man. That’s SO MUCH better tension wise. Brilliant idea! - Maria

[@teodorapetkovic]

Stay strong Will! There must be an adult book out there somewhere that still has the tropes you love that is also competently written!

[@theaargent7056]

I'm really learning right now, how different reading experiences can be due to translation. I read this book in German and my experience was a little different. In German the scholars (which really bad name) are called "Kundige". It means "to be proficient in something", but it's not a frequently used word in German, so it creates the feeling of difference & doesn't rip the worldbuilding to shreds as much. Also in the German Version they frame Elias relationship to his Grandfather is a bit more ambivalent. Elias kinda knows & respects him but he hates his views & cruelty.

[@brittanyhoward1741]

Controversial and brave option: Elias and Helene should have been the main romance. They were childhood friends who believed in one thing at the start of the book, but then ended the book as enemies. It had the angst, it had the drama. And it would have made Elias heel-turn from the empire hit so much more harder because we could see that his dissection from the empire break one of the only Foundational relationships he’s ever had (he granddad only love him for being the Oliver his mother never was and his mother is a raging asshole and he can barley remember the tribesman who raised him) and we would have sympathized with him more.

[@SalayaSkystone]

Okay, I totally stand for ANY video you guys make. And I believe a review per book in a series is more videos for me to watch soooooo... I am all for it. Sad to hear the views don't show the same enthusiasm.

[@lisaashpole8066]

I was in the middle of reading this book when you posted this! I obviously had to finish this book before coming to hear your thoughts, and I'm excited to finally get the chance.

[@neydiapascandy1995]

Laia felt too much of a perfect character to me. She didn't felt like a real "person", she always did the right things and had perfect flaws. I didn't understood the romance between Laia and Elias, it really felt like instant love, no slow burn at all. The first time he see her felt is like he forget everything and catch feeling out of nowhere (or just for how she looks). I genuinely didn't care whatsoever when they kissed in that room. Helene had a lot of potential, but she didn't had enough room too be shown in this book (but she will in the other books). Also I felt like Helen and Elyas was a much better fit and had much more tension, chemistry and backstory that what we had with Laia. It could have been interesting to see them talking, shifting from friends to lovers, changing or confronting each others perspective while having the same education. Characters growth would have been exciting. That being said, An ember in the Ashes is better than a lot of YA fantasy out there. And it keep being interesting in the sequel. I would love to know your thoughts on the others book though.

[@Trintron46]

I would absolutely love to see you two review the Fireborne trilogy by Rosario Munda. The final book comes out on August 8th also!

[@metalman4393]

"Play with not a great set," is exactly how I'd describe it. This story felt like it was taking place in a dark corridor.

[@jo_helaci]

I loved Diana Wynne Jones when I was a kid and I still do. My favourites are Howl's moving castle, Dogsbody and A tale of time city. Sadly not a lot of her books are translated into Swedish, but now as an adult I'm trying to find them in English. But I agree with you that she's not the typical YA writer.

[@Trintron46]

I can never tell if Maria has cut her hair or styled it differently, but every video I'm blow away by how gorgeous she is 😍

[@MaryJoHeadrick]

I personally loved an Ember in the Ashes but I did not think about it that critically when I read it, I just wanted to have a good time lol

[@laurenalyssa4677]

I am so early?? This is insane Also I am very here for the series y'all do

[@halahsback]

Thanks for all the in-depth explanations regarding YA and what isn't really the YA we expect. I grew up reading Tamora Pierce, so even though my characters start as teens in book 1, I don't do many modern YA tropes. I wish there was a better way to say "it's technically YA but it's not ...."

[@matthewdeancole]

When I was a kid in the 80s, YA was like The Outsiders by S.E. hinton.

[@missyureiii]

My high school English teacher made us read and watch The Outsiders (this was like 2014). Even though its decades old, everyone in class was into the story.

[@samanthazarring9502]

I've been on the fence about reading this book every time I see it in the bookstores/Amazon, because I'm also way burnt out on YA books. For me, it was the shift to 1st person narration; a few are fine, but nearly every book in YA is in 1st person narration now. It also doesn't help that I can usually guess how the book ends. And Epic fantasy is great-it's usually not 1st person narration, there's stakes and follow through-my only complaint is that it's gotten longer, and what would take me about a day to get through now takes me about two weeks. But, have you thought of doing a series review? Like...take the Dragonriders of Pern series-instead of doing a review per book in that series, you could review the series a whole. Or at least, the first 3 books that begin the series, and talk it through. Also, have you thought about discussing a series on a live-stream?

[@musickel3718]

Haha this book has been in my tbr forever. Guess now I can figure out if I actually want to read it XD

[@schreiboderstirb389]

I've read this book a couple of years ago and found it so superficial, shallow and childish. Why would someone write about a system of indoctrination and brainwashing from the earliest age on, and a militaristic society if she is clearly not interested in any of those things and only uses it as a dramatic backdrop? Such a shame. Also, you are my favourite booktubers out there but I feel in this instance you could have been even more critical...

[@artybluegirl]

Yeah, I get what Will means. YA started to pick when I was in my mid to late teens and growing up all we had was either an older middle grade sorta early teens kids books. It wasn't like what we call YA nowadays, in fact, back then I read a lot of adult books I shouldn't have because a proper YA didn't yet exist. You just picked up a book because it sounded interesting and hoped it wasn't all too graphic in my case.

[@bethanycamille5379]

You should read and review The Poppy War! The writing could be deemed YA, but the content is definitely more Adult!!

[@ReemadreeMonzur]

ooh good idea!

[@James-ju1wb]

I second this

[@angryotter9129]

I enjoyed the book, but Elias and Laia both annoyed me. That whole “my best friend is in love with me but I don’t want to ruin our friendship even though I’m totally into her too” thing was just an obvious plot device. Like…what is wrong with your partner being your best friend??? That is what I call toxic hetero bullshit. And what does it say about him that he’d rather catch lust and feelings for a slave than a woman who is his true equal, without any weird power dynamics going on? And Laia kept cutting people off, literally running off while they’re trying to tell her stuff. And they were both idiots who took entirely too long to figure things out. Like too dumb to live if it weren’t for the augers saving them.

[@neydiapascandy1995]

Thank you!!!!! For real, I felt like Helen and Elyas had so much more in common and much more chemistry than him and Laia! I did not understood

[@angryotter9129]

@@neydiapascandy1995 perhaps the author needed a reason for him to save Laia, like he couldn’t have just done the right thing, there needed to be romance. It would have been so much more compelling if they became friends and he and Helena became romantic.

[@neydiapascandy1995]

@@angryotter9129 Yes but, indeed I think it would have help to show better his pure intentions if Laia wasn't a love interest. Because now we can wonder what would've happened if it was a random person that he had to kill. We know the author wants us to appreciate him and see him as this hero that can't fit in this terrible world but he just seems like he don't understand the world that he was educated in. He feels like a spoiled poor little rich boy. He have everything but doesn't want it, master everything but by accident, is in the elite but reject without giving us his internal process to do so. In real life privilege people don't wake up one day by themselves realizing the issue of others, they have to be shown and to experience. There is a lifestyle, a status qo before the shift. Being in love with Helene would've help with that part, and we could have seen him really struggle to do the right thing and leaving the empire despite his love for her. I would have loved seeing him struggle more in the choice he had to do and internal battle he had to face instead of just falling in love with a random girl he know nothing of. Than boom, he's a hero. In this case not killing her is not character development or doesn't make him the good guy but just another boy in love with a beautiful girl. It is not because he learned to value any kind of life, in opposition with what the school wanted him reject, it's just feelings (or lust), not growth.

[@James-ju1wb]

Shade's Children or Sabriel from Nix would be a great throwback review for YA.

[@angryotter9129]

Yes! I’ve seen the Abhorsen trilogy on Maria’s shelf in the background, I’m pretty sure.

[@marinakonrad5035]

Engagement!

[@ReemadreeMonzur]

i would love it if y'all could check out the night and its moon by piper cj? i've heard the reviews deem it as atrocious lol

[@bookworm209]

Recently read this because I'd heard good things. I was disappointed for many reasons, most of which you brought up. You didn't mention an aspect of Elias' character that really bugged me, though. It felt like he only became "good" because he saw a hot girl. It would have been so much better for his character if he was always good. Like imagine if he was known for brining slaves medicine! Even if it was just a big FU to his mom, that would still give him this interesting depth and make us believe that he retained some of his childhood anti-empire sentiments. But that's not what we get. Laia is the first slave he ever helps, so you're not convincing me that this guy is a wonderful human being. This is especially true because Laia's looks are praised so often and she's the only slave with an unmarred face. It really feels like Laia was the first slave who was pretty enough for Elias to care about which does not say good things about his character. Another thing that bothered me was how weird the trials were in this book. I thought the trials were going to span the series with each book featuring one and that they were going to be true tests of leadership and ability. Instead they're all in book one and none of them felt like a great test of who should be the emperor. I didn't walk away feeling like Marcus earned the title. It felt like it was all about getting the wrong person on the throne, which is probably what it was. The augers are obviously doing some big plot, but it's annoying when the "this is for plot not logic" element is so in your face for a major part of the story. I actually did try reading the second book in the series because I wanted to like this, but it did not get better. I made it about a third of the way through and the evil magic villain that we have to defeat STILL wasn't a thing. They were STILL focused on rescuing Laia's brother and it was painful! Please just get to the plot already! I do not recommend the series in the slightest and I am so confused why these books are popular. I cannot stand the whole "we're dying/fighting of our lives, but I'm so horny that all I can't think about is how hot my friend/enemy/ally is" trope. It infuriates me and these books *worship* that trope. This was better than some YA I've read, but it did not freaking transcend the current trends in that genre! It was very on-brand for everything that annoys me about it and really just confirms that I'm right to avoid more recent YA entries.

[@coraphoenix-price3270]

Really didn't like how sexual assault was handled in this. The constant threat just hanging over Leia's head, why did the author decide to make it socially acceptable and discussed so much. I really fell out of the book when Helene's trial was basically her being assaulted for days by Marcus and Elias still being too wrapped up in his stuff to care. And now she will be forced to do everything Marcus says, I can't see that turning out well. I also agree with Will- on basically everything- but especially the excess horniness of Elias. I hadn't read YA in awhile and the whole time I was thinking, is this how YA was and I forgot, is it just male MC's bc I don't read those often, or was Elias just unusually horny. Loved the Irish guy though, mostly bc of the narrators accent lol. Personally I don't want to continue reading but I would love to watch you guys break down the next books!

[@whiteraven562]

I also feel like it doesn't make sense for a society that's that cool with women being SAd to let women into positions of power.

[@laurachelaru6057]

I remember I picked this book up after reading a "If you liked this game, you'll like this book..." kind of article and this was under Dragon Age. And I really didn't get it when I read it. There was so little detail about the worldbuilding and the characters were at best meh? And then I sat and thought about it and I realized that Elias and Laia are just like ... all the correct opinions, but really bitter and all the correct opinions but really oppressed, which was like, character flavor 1&2 when I was playing the game for the first time and my underlying wish was to get the best ending. Which, kind of made my very soul groan. LIke... I have a lot of opinions on Dragon Age and I know that a lot of them are colored by my very wild interpretations and plausible additions to it, but man did reading this and comparing it to the game make me like the game a little less.

[@angryotter9129]

So…I started reading the second book in the series. DNF’d in the first five chapters. There’s sexy thoughts at inappropriate times, of course, but remember at the end of Ember when he could have killed Marcus but he didn’t? Yeah they do that with the commandant and I cannot with the stupid. Why even include that in a story? Especially not twice in a series! Is everyone going to get amnesia next? Sweet baby Jesus, I just could not. I think the author is doing that whole “good guys don’t kill people thing” and that was annoying when Batman did it, so I wish people would stop. Marcus is a rapist who beats women to death. The commandant literally tortures children and is trying to destroy the world. I see no moral quandary here. Kill them. You’re not superior because you stayed your hand. This isn’t a turn the other cheek type offense. I’m mad about it. End rant.

[@johnadams7145]

I love the first book, but sequels not as much

[@caitlinalthea2470]

i honestly don't understand why you guys criticized the scholars as not being "middle eastern/south asian coded" enough? it's a second world fantasy. the roman empire, the middle east, etc don't exist in this world. i think authors should be allowed to pull from different sources of inspiration when building a made up fantasy culture (provided they don't perpetuate harmful stereotypes ofc)

[@unresolvedtextualtension]

It's more that the Scholar culture is really thin and abstract. It's hard to get a sense for it. Fantasy authors can definitely pull from different cultures to create one their own, but the Scholar's really don't accomplish that. They have like three cultural details, and that's it. --Will

[@S_Black]

There is just a distinct difference between old YA and the modern post-Hunger Games YA. There were always books written for a younger audience even when they didn't have a clear label, but they tended to be smarter and with more variety. Not sanded to this tropey samey formula. And it was just normal for teenagers to pick up adult books eventually (and be proud of it). I also can't stand first person present tense. That's an absolute no no. First person past tense can be great, but it's actually harder to write than third. And present tense just makes no sense. All the writing advice online is just about creating some fake immediacy. I don't get the obsession with that. It's just a crutch to achieve something a skilled author can do in third person too.

[@marocat4749]

Shin seki yori, i only know the series, that is great and gooood. And its about an elder character remiscing about her and her friends dicover the world and, its really good mystery and worldbuilding and payoffs. And the character dont seem that interseting per se but the world is the focus then them discovering it. Its a bood and coming from a book thats also scifi, will maybe likes the book. Etremely good story and the worldbuilding, great.

[@marocat4749]

maybe the youtube promoting negative content that makes it less promoted?! which is wad as maria and maybe will goshing is good.