Does John 15 Defy Calvinism?

[@chrispopovici]

He did explain it clearly. The branch that is cut off is not a truly regenerate believer since it never produced fruit. It doesn’t say it produced fruit and then stopped, it never produced it. There are many people who just go to church and haven’t been born again. Very good biblical explanation, use scripture to interpret scripture

[@ladillalegos]

Pastor John forgot to explain the branches that are “grafted IN”

[@lukegleissner]

Remain, he said... "remain"

[@Ancient-Paths]

As I see it: [1] They are ALL branches who are attached to the Vine (Jesus) receiving the life-giving sap. “I am the Vine, you are the branches” (v.5) Jesus is speaking to His disciples and all those “in Him” down through the ages. He is not speaking to false converts. [2] They are ALL "in Christ" (v.2) so they had to be saved. You cannot be "in Christ" and be a false Christian. [3] They were ALL (the 11) “clean” (v.3) or saved - Judas had already left. There are no false Christians in these verses. [4] They ALL possessed the Holy Spirit (see John 14:17, 26). Only those who are saved possess the Holy Spirit - not false Christians. [5] They are ALL “chosen” (v.16). If they were not saved - why did Jesus call them “chosen”? They were chosen to bear fruit. False converts are not chosen. [6] They were ALL capable of producing fruit (v.2) or Jesus would not have COMMANDED them to do so. The Vine sends its nutrients into the branch to produce fruit. Some of the branches (in the Vine = Jesus) produced fruit by continuing to “abide in the Vine.” These were pruned in order to produce more fruit. However, the fruitless branches (in the Vine) were those who refused to continue abiding “in Christ” and so failed to produce fruit (or stopped producing fruit). These “branches” were “cut off” from the Vine (Jesus) so they had to have been IN IT to start with, and thrown into the fire of hell (v.6). There are no false converts here - because false converts would not have been “IN the Vine” and so could not have been “cut off” FROM the Vine. [7] They were ALL commanded to abide in the Vine. Jesus would not have commanded false Christians to “abide in Me” - because they would not have been IN HIM in the first place and they could not do so. All true Christians need to continue to abide in Christ - or they will be “cut off” from the Vine (Jesus). You cannot CONTINUE in something or REMAIN in it - if you were never IN it in the first place. This teaching is also found in Romans 11:17-22. This is a very sombre warning.

[@TheCreepypro]

may we know your word Lord and depend on you

[@notallgarbage]

yeah... evading the question... pitting scriptures against scriptures...

[@roblow5078]

Doesn’t answer the question

[@countrysidefilms3860]

Why not?

[@notallgarbage]

​@@countrysidefilms3860 because Piper is not explaining John 15... he's going around it...

[@notallgarbage]

garbage theology.

[@countrysidefilms3860]

@@notallgarbage No, he's doing a good job. I actually made a video explaining why eternal security is in perfect harmony with John 15: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mprXn3ieidaKiZY

[@Muzicboy3]

@@notallgarbage he did explain it lol … he used scripture to interpret scripture. He’s saying these other verses say this and makes eternal security clear and biblical. So it helps you better understand verses that may seemingly say you can lose your salvation. By itself that verse may seem like it’s saying you can lose your salvation. But when you look at the numerous verses that say you can’t it becomes clear what John 15 really means. The vine is not necessarily a saved person. It’s just a person who is Judas like, or who goes to church, or professes to be a Christian, but really bears no fruit. That’s why There’s a verse that says, they went out from us because they were not of us. The person, was apart of church, and was around church activity, even around church members but was never saved. Hence why the verse in Matthew says many will say to me “Lord Lord” and he will say depart from me your workers of iniquity. Those people thought they were sheep but really were not