Does MLS need a relegation system? | SOTU

[@StateOfTheUnion]

Does MLS need a relegation system?

[@LEVIJmusic]

Definitely. Imagine my local team promoted to MLS! Id travel to see them for sure! It would improve soccer culture in the US & start building generational fandom!⚽🥅

[@bouzoukiman5000]

If we want san diego padres type losers that are still profitable and the model is take from taxpayers then it's typical American sports bs that own markets that will never be competetive

[@davepazz580]

Completely unnecessary...

[@TheAlbertguevara1]

Look at all the top leagues, they have a relegation system that is enough said right there. It would elevate the level of soccer here so absolutely.

[@davepazz580]

@@TheAlbertguevara1 The "top" leagues also aren't in competition with at least 4 other much bigger and much more popular sports leagues (as in the US)... soccer is the king sport and suffers no true competition for fans.

[@gracielynn9623]

As a fan of a local USL team and a follower of a couple MLS teams I want to see promotion and relegation. I think it’s paramount for the growth of soccer in this country. I’d be perfectly okay if MLS bought the entire USL and brought them all under the MLS umbrella and we had, say, a 3-5 level MLS system with MLS1 MLS2 MLS3 and so on. MLS can reach more cities, not worry about competition and having to put teams out of business (looking at the SD Loyal), and yet be able to monopolize the sport which they want and also have big growth in a traditional system. But I’m also a realist. I know MLS won’t unless the USSF makes them because greed rules everything. I don’t think the USSF has backbone enough for that.

[@orlandomartinez4085]

It is not paramount at all. MLS has had massive growth without it and I don’t think they would shoot themselves in the foot by implementing relegation.

[@gracielynn9623]

@@orlandomartinez4085 how would they be shooting themselves in the foot by implementing relegation? The premier league doesn’t seem like they are shooting themselves in the foot with relegation. There are a lot of teams in MLS that are incredibly problematic, Chicago fire and the Colorado rapids being one of the most serious offenders, that don’t invest in their team don’t care about their team and don’t do anything to improve the team. having a relegation system makes everybody have to be involved with the team or face consequences for not doing so. Right now there is no consequence for bad ownership, and that holds the league back. You can only grow so much when you allow that to happen.

[@noodlemans]

Great take!

[@Luonguyen457]

​@@gracielynn9623the only problem , previous owner pay hundred millions of dollars to own a MLS Club . That's just not fair for them if USL club Joint for free bro . Instead joint MLS , USL need to find more investor , improve , then Concacaf Champions league should Playoff between MLS club vs USL club . When USL already get bunch of investor .

[@gracielynn9623]

@@Luonguyen457 life isn’t fair bro. And MLS clubs are super valuable. If an owner doesn’t want the risk, when it’s announced they can sell the team to an owner willing to take on the risk of being a bad owner. The lowest valued MLS teams are still worth almost a quarter billion.

[@mikehunt5637]

It's kind of hard to ask an owner to accept promotion/relegation when they had to pay $200 million for a franchise and then pay another $200-$300 million for a stadium.

[@brando7266]

The new san diego owner paid 500 mill,

[@r2dad282]

maybe garber will have to refund some of those franchise fees. I don't care about billionaire owners and socialized sports.

[@mikehunt5637]

@@r2dad282 That actually might be the solution to pro-rel in the USA. If they can provide enough financial incentive for owners who have invested in a franchise to accept a drop to the 2nd division.

[@bohiodigital]

What if MLS teams r exempt from relegation for a number of years?

[@p.pinchelette2909]

Yes!! That's how the sport will grow. Smaller cities would have clubs with an opportunity for the top league. It also puts pressure on club owners and mgmt to invest and do well. Hence, more competition and better games. The problem is many come and want to run it like the nba or mlb just for the $. I doubt many in charge even like the sport.

[@ektran4205]

the MLSPA DOESN'T WANT COMPETITION

[@TimothyFouracre]

MLS needs promotion and relegation because as in Europe it gives teams more identity, it reveals the perennial top tier teams, the yo yo teams, the small teams punching above their weight and the bigger teams who may be playing in a division below their status. It makes it all that more interesting, right now the MLS is a bit bland without it

[@Stewy-xw9fz]

MLS already prove to us that they not willing to do bold things. They had the chance to increase the salary for 2024 with the apple money and they choose not to.

[@rmmvw]

Shows that they'd rather increase the money in their accounts rather than use their extra earnings for more wealth down the road. It's short term thinking that will kill MLS.

[@CarlosRuiz-oi3sh]

Cheap MLS owners run the league sadly smh

[@rmmvw]

@@CarlosRuiz-oi3sh the call is in USL's court honestly. They have the ability to control the narrative to what footballing is to the US, as pro-rel is more exciting. People say that it would be difficult to implement in the US, but we should take note that any football fan in the US is already familiar with the system with more people having an EPL team but not an MLS one. USL expanding into more markets will give it its hegemony it needs while the MLS will be narrowed down to a "super league"; more money, but that's about it. It would be genius for MLS next pro to try to integrate itself into the USL pro rel system so it can easily move teams over when USL eventually takes over.

[@ektran4205]

@@rmmvw mlspa is the problem

[@ektran4205]

MLSPA doesn't want competition

[@Kranalif1]

I want to see pro/rel…… I want to see the rise of small clubs…. I want to see drama at the bottom as well as the top of the standings. It is very important to keep everyone engaged throughout the season.

[@houseofvenusMD]

MLS will ruin USL. Honestly I believe USL should run on its own for the next decade or so. MLS's ownership culture would just sour the rest of the clubs in the USL system. There is a high probability that a kid currently on a USL roster will get scouted by a European team and make his way onto our USMNT roster come 2026. USL won't be able to compete with MLS by 2026 but having a single player in the national team who started in the USL would be enough marketing to jumpstart that international awareness for USL.

[@r2dad282]

Garber busy trying to kill USL like they did in San Diego. USSF should intervene to protect smaller clubs. If MLS is so omnipotent make them start new franchises in other smaller towns without a USL presence. There is no reason professional soccer must be the Wild West just like our failed youth soccer leagues.

[@jayh3283]

The question is not whether MLS need to do relegation within a merit based division system, the real question is really for US Soccer. That answer is very obvious. For MLS, it goes against their business interest even though that same interest could backfire on them long term because they will fail to meet long term growth demands by fans. People want to see a national growth in the sport long term because that is what’s proven to create good soccer leagues. Liga MX is becoming more and more like MLS out of greed. They sold their soul for the US dollar and is seeing a decline as a result. Having two soulless leagues within a FIFA Confederations full of poor quality leagues is not what US Soccer need to become good. I’m even ashamed seeing what the CONCACAF Champions Cup become. The reason why the NFL, NBA, and NHL is considered the best league in their sport is because their fanbase is blind to it’s foreign counterparts. NBA is already learning the hard way that the best European players are just as good as our best American players when those players join NBA teams. MLS do not have that. All the leagues that used a single league system is now working towards a merit based division structure and MLS failed to make what they call the American structure look good.

[@carltonharvey]

the reason why the NBA, NHL, MLB, NFL are the best leagues in the world is because they are the richest leagues in the world and by far have the most following so they can afford the best players in the world, regardless of their origin EPL is running away from other global leagues not because it has a pro/rel system but because they made better business moves that the other top 5 leagues in the world are desperate to keep up with. Part of the reason the Super League became a discussion was because it was difficult for teams like Barcelona/Real Madrid to keep up with the spending and revenue of EPL squads even with those two Spanish clubs being two of the most lucrative in the world. Barcelona is dealing with serious financial issues which was one of the reasons they couldn't keep Messi back before he went to PSG Europe has better bball players now, not because of pro/rel but because they have a culture of ppl who actually are interested in and play the sport. just like Latin American players and recently, Japanese players are becoming some of the best baseball players in MLB despite coming from nations/leagues without pro/rel. it's cultural i could careless whether MLS gets pro/rel or not but I'm with Alexi when he suggests it's not the silver bullet everyone makes it out to be. Rugby in England has pro/rel but you never hear a peep about rugby players/clubs/leagues unless it has to do with the international level the vast majority of ppl could not name 5 teams who were relegated from the top 5 european leagues last yr unless they look it up online or are a fan of those teams because the general fan doesn't care. that's not what drives your audience/attention in large numbers soccer is already becoming bigger in america but if you want it to compete legit with other american leagues you gotta bring in the best talent, that's what americans (general sports fans) care about more than anything else...the best not worrying about who gets demoted to a minor league in what's already a 2nd if not 3rd tier league like MLS

[@frontrowviews]

@@carltonharveythe reason those leagues are the best in the world is because they are, for the most part, the only leagues playing these dumbass sports. Or they are at least miles ahead of the rest of the world

[@carltonharvey]

@@frontrowviews that's not even remotely true. 25% of all NBA players are international. The same is true for MLB due to Latin American influence NHL has numerous players from Europe, particularly Scandinavian countries & Russia though I do not know the percentages. NFL is probably the only sport in which your statement has a chance at truth though there's an increasing number of Africans that are playing in the league due to natural god given athleticism there are plenty of bball, baseball & hockey leagues around the world but they're just not on the level of America

[@r2dad282]

You mean "then vast majority of AMERICAN ppl" local club supporters certainly do care about relegation and clubs fight heard to avoid it--that dynamic does not exist in US sports. Also, you are not taking into account training compensation and solidarity payments which has a huge impact down the food chain and can support proper youth development (which we don't have).@@carltonharvey

[@habibbenouaghrem5147]

There are teams in the second division in England who are better than all mls teams 😂😂😂😂

[@eyalinbar4845]

The entire American sports situation is corrupt because the stakeholders do not want relegation and then there is less pressure to perform and thus every sport in the USA is worse: MLB, NBA, NFL and MLS do not have pressure to perform against because if you have a bad season, big deal, nothing happens? You can lose every game and nothing will happen.

[@tomzebrowski1391]

Yes until they do they will not b taken seriously 🎉🎉🎉

[@luisridez9219]

The league is going to get to 40 teams and still have no relegation. What a joke

[@davepazz580]

Not making the playoffs = "relegation"

[@ancient6676]

While I don't agree with Lexi on most things, I think this is kind of what would happen if Pro/Rel ever happened. It would probably be this closed league 2-3 division pro/rel system. Meaning you can't start your own team with a bunch of friends and in theory it could get to MLS one day, but many American sports markets especially those often not touched by any major league system would have the chance to potentially see their local team in the top division which is already ground breaking in the American sports system as is. I'd also imagine MLS next pro would serve as this big tent 4 division with teams that are sometimes as good as division 2 teams, or just as bad a normal 4th div team. Perhaps if a team in the third division was doing really bad, and a independent team was doing really good financially in MLS NEXT PRO, there could be some sort of swamp into the 3rd division meaning a team previously not apart of the pro/rel system could join the pro/rel system, without formally killing the other club their replacing since that previous club will now exist in the fourth division.

[@alaska4joe]

I love Lexi’s idea of MLS acquiring the USL

[@youenjoy8468]

As RSL fan I would love Pro/rel, but it'll never happen sadly

[@troytheboy1985]

They have relegation it means what 20+ teams fighting for 1/2 or 3 slots which ends up breeding more money

[@jackied962]

I don't see the point of MLS buying USL. MLS should just announce they are starting MLS 2. Clubs will have to pay an expansion fee (maybe half the normal fee), and you need a stadium that holds 20,000.

[@Stewy-xw9fz]

Saudi investment Fund (worth 600-700 billion) or any mega Billionaire could buy USL tomorrow and go head to head with MLS. MLS is vulnerable and exposed right now.

[@jackied962]

@@Stewy-xw9fz well let me know when that happens

[@Stewy-xw9fz]

@@jackied962 if MLS does not take over USL it will definitely happen. I will respond to you in the future

[@luisridez9219]

They took away relegation from Liga MX and look how bad it's turning out for them. But hey the owners are happy and that's what matters right?

[@davepazz580]

"Relegation" in the Mexican league had become a total farce anyway... things were going to go bad for that league regardless if they kept relegation or not.

[@LEVIJmusic]

🔥🔥🔥🔥

[@brownsupahero]

Relegation? MLS needs to return all those franchise fees with interest.

[@petercobb7753]

Relegation is bad idea for the MLS. It pretty much guarantees that the top four or five teams are always the top teams and bottom teams simply trade who's in and who's out and rarely make it to the top half. Over the past 10 years 10 different teams have won the MLS Cup. In the premier league only four teams, with Manchester City and Chelsea dominating, have won and it's the same for the ten years before that and the ten years before that. A MLS team can go from last to first in a year or two. Nearly impossible with relegation. Relegation probably is a bad idea for the Premier League, they're just too stuck in the past to change.

[@luisridez9219]

Moronic take

[@thatn_ggajandro3197]

Without promotion relegation the game doesn’t grow. Especially for players that want to keep playing at a high level. The reason pro/rel doesn’t work in the US is because we do not have community clubs. If you had that then more players would want to work their way up. Think about wrexham. Or any other team that is working their way up with big money. No pro/rel = less long term growth

[@zackfleisig7932]

@@thatn_ggajandro3197 I'm not sure if it is feasible in the US the way it is in England. The US is just so big. It may work with up to 3 levels and even that would likely be stretching. As a fan I'd like to see it happen because it makes the game a lot more interesting and would help the sport grow. Realistically though, just seems like wishful thinking at this point.

[@thomas-w6j2q]

Why? I dont understand the reason why? US sports are not set up like that.

[@nervusbreakdown]

If relegation is put in place, MLS will fall so fast, it will turn people off because they will have no clue. That is like saying if the NYMets did so bad in the MLB, they will be put into the AAA league. You know how insane that will be? No one will want that. That is not how US Sports works. If the club is doing bad, you get rid of the player and beef up your roster.

[@thomas-w6j2q]

@@nervusbreakdown I agree

[@filibertoperez6356]

@@nervusbreakdownYes, MLS will fall with the NFL owners they have running the franchises. Anyway, in order to compete globally soccerwise. The U.S. sports model has proven it does not work in soccer (single-entity, minor league system etc). I guess one wants mediocrity still.

[@jayh3283]

Simple. The American way does not work. The American sports structure is anti competitive and offers no national growth of a sports that’s trying to get on it’s feet. The American sports league structure only work for established sports that has no global competitors on nor way above it’s level. Especially in term of salary and prestige. Such a situation is something other American sports leagues are happy they don’t have to worry about at the moment. FIBA, for example, do not function the same way FIFA does.

[@thatn_ggajandro3197]

US sports are monopolies. This is why it’ll not happen.

[@antoniocorona6508]

Of course it should makes games more exciting

[@bohiodigital]

as a soccer fan, I could not care less whether MLS implements pro/rel or not. They are a private club and should have the right to do all the NFL shenanigans they want. The problem is ussf giving Division one status to a closed league.

[@montanaprime]

No, they need an even more stringent system to keep out

[@Luonguyen457]

No No No , The investor Will Runaway . Remember MLS owner pay Arround hundred million of dollars to get franchise . Instead of that , Bring more space to superstar like Messi & Asier Illarramendi. And bring more incentive if club success to build talent like Miguel Almiron / Taty Castelanos / Weston McKennie etc .

[@r2dad282]

Sorry, billionaire socialist investors will not improve the sport--why do you care so much about them? The US needs hundreds of small local clubs and a proper soccer pyramid. D1, D2 and D3 is enough. Pro-rel, training compensation and solidarity payments. We need capitalism where USSF operates the leagues and doesn't own the clubs.

[@Luonguyen457]

@@r2dad282 i don't care about Rich people like Don Garber , David Beckham , Jorge masvidal etc . But i am bloody care about their club like inter Miami , Dallas FC , sporting Kansas city . Small local club barely promote proper player . MLS & USL club produce and promote Many talents overseas , Ricardo Peppy , Josh cohen , Weston McKennie , Alistair Johnston . If investor from MLS & USL Runaway with Their club , NISA Can't Bring solution . It's just not worth it Abandon MLS for USL & NISA , more not worth it Abandon MLS & USL for NISA .

[@Luonguyen457]

@@r2dad282 MLS & USL is collective capitalist bro 🤭 . They pay $250-500 milion (MLS) $10-25milion (USL) to joint the leagues 🤭 .

[@ValeriaZaragoza692]

How about if they took all the teams that don’t make the playoffs and put them in a postseason tournament, at the end of which the losing teams are relegated. More postseason games, MLS would love it.

[@Brandon-qd2lb]

They’ll just do it by league standings

[@Jp-tw5mm]

Hear me out! Mls1 and mls2. Mls2 marged with usl. Last 5 of mls relegated to mls2. First 5 of mls2 promoted to mls. And best 2 of mls2 qualify for mls playoffs. This way even if you are in mls2 you can still be mls champions. Gives motivation for mls2 teams.

[@bohiodigital]

If MLS teams cannot be relegated, neither they should qualify for ConcaChampions. Enjoying the best part of meritocracy is BS.

[@TommyP14]

Yes. Next topic

[@thatn_ggajandro3197]

Yea

[@bouzoukiman5000]

The soccer businesses of the MLS need relegation or they'll NEVER be taken seriously just like the rest of the BS American sports businesses

[@davepazz580]

Kicking out one bad team and replacing it with another bad team every year isn't going to change anything...

[@DerekOwenLangdon]

Well done pal. You are talking sense. Unfortunately, there don’t seem to be much of it in the USA.

[@davepazz580]

@@DerekOwenLangdon Yes it all makes so much sense... until you realize that pro/rel is only sustainable under very specific circumstances that simply don't exist in the US.

[@CreativeGuy99]

MLS acquiring USL is the worst idea I've ever heard. MLS is poorly run and does not care at all about growing soccer in America.

[@MeITellYou]

With the crazy money ppl pay to get into the mls, they made it impossible for promotion/regulation. Pro/reg is good but we are talking about mls here, backwards 🤦‍♂️

[@davepazz580]

Pro/rel only works in countries where soccer is the national obsession or suffers very little to moderate competition from other sports leagues... the US has conditions completely different from this, hence, another system is used.

[@footligion7464]

absolutely not, relagation systeam is a european culture and also still MLS is struggle to draw audience. -_-

[@allanfitz3535]

You need it in all your team sports. Losing should have consequences. Take your NFL teams deliberately losing to get first pick as an example of sports being pointless if you've got to the bowl because someone purposely lost.

[@davepazz580]

But nobody even pays attention to losing teams in the US anyway... the real focus is on who makes the playoffs and post-season play.

[@xplicitmike]

Facts. NFL, MLB, NHL, MLS... they ALL need promo/rel

[@davepazz580]

@@xplicitmike All those sports leagues grew well enough without any pro/rel...

[@xplicitmike]

@@davepazz580and have a boring af franchisee monopoly system in place instead that doesn't reward or punish good and bad seasons/performances 🥱

[@davepazz580]

@@xplicitmike Players that don't perform up to standard get replaced by new players... that's they "punishment" they get. If you win the league title, that was the "reward" for your effort... so I don't know what you mean.

[@btbucks]

No, because I don't want my club ever to get relegated.

[@benwhealler4278]

Yes it does. Even if it's closed system pro/rel.

[@davepazz580]

It already has that... it's called "not making the playoffs."

[@benwhealler4278]

@@davepazz580 No it doesn't. There are no stakes for being in the bottom 3 or 4 teams. There needs to be a threat of dropping a league for being that bad, not awarded a high draft pick.

[@davepazz580]

The "stakes" are for the individual coaches and players... in other words, for the ones actually *responsible* for finishing last. Bottom finishing teams should simply clean house of the ineffective players/coaches and bring in new ones... there is no reason whatsoever to drag the fans down along with the team. The draft in MLS is pretty meaningless anyway, so it really doesn't matter who gets awarded what.

[@benwhealler4278]

@@davepazz580 But how many of those bottom feeding teams ACTUALLY clean house and start over? Especially the bottom feeders. The owners of those teams don't care. It would mean a lot more to say they survived relegation. With a REAL threat of relegation on the line, owners would care a little bit more, which is what we all want in the end. Also, the threat of relegation also gives the fans power to demand change if things go badly. In the end, I just think soccer can't be done the American way.

[@davepazz580]

Just a couple of seasons ago, Inter Miami finished last (or almost last)... the following season, almost the entire roster was overhauled with new players. Years ago, when Chivas USA first entered MLS, the first few seasons were abysmal, and the team barely won a handful of games... I remember during player interviews of that bad season, not a single player in the locker room was in any kind of "relaxed" happy mood because they understood that by not winning games, their careers as top league players were on the line *regardless* of the fact that the franchise wasn't going anywhere (at the time anyway). I see "relegation" as being unfair for the fans, as the fans themselves had no hand in any loss their team suffers all season... so why should they be flushed down the proverbial toilet to slog it out with their team in an inferior league when it was the players and coaches fault the team finished last? The fans deserve a top league team *regardless* of how the team finishes in any given season... so it's only right to keep the team but kick out the players or coaches that didn't perform up to standard.

[@3atingfr3nzy]

Good we NEED relegation in MLS desperately !! Maybe the Earthquakes will actually spend money on footballers instead of 9 LGBTQLame events each year !!

[@thomas-w6j2q]

I honestly dont really see the regular American public who want pro/ rel. It doesnt really matter to me but I dont see it

[@davidday2373]

Only fake fans (virtue-signaling fans) pretend that they want Pro-Rel. It's basically only Euro-snobs who don't care about MLS as it is.

[@chinglee100]

Honestly most MLS fans are soccer fans which in general already love promotion and relegation it’s rare to see an MLS fan who doesn’t like European football as well so don’t get it mixed. Promotion and relegation would not work in any other American sport but in MLS the fans would love it

[@r2dad282]

MLS = billionaire soccer socialism. Pro-Rel = soccer capitalism. Evil vs Good.

[@DerekOwenLangdon]

You don’t see? Then as far as I can see, Americans haven’t a clue about football.