Does No-Till Gardening Work on Hard Ground? One Gardener Shares Her Failures and Successes

Today we visit Elizabeth's garden and hear how her no-till gardening did great in some ways but failed in others.
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Two years ago Elizabeth started her no-till garden plot with layers of hay and straw, followed by wood chips. The ground beneath was very hard. Will no-till gardening work on clay and rock-hard compacted ground? She thought so and decided to give it a try. Does no-till gardening work on hard clay? Here are her results.

[@davidthegood]

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[@xaviercruz4763]

Hi! 1- creeping thyme is a small ground covering plant that would be so short that you can walk over it. Covers everything beautifully adding roots everywhere available for life (bacteria, fungí, protozoe and all others that can to come back and have a home. It will retain moisture on the soil and open spaces for oxigen and manufacture nutrient interaction in all life levels in that soil while looking beautifully. Zoysea and other grasses would root good too but please dont leave any soil bare . Big forest plants some have roots that can break the sidewalk like the tree in front of where i am now and those collect mycorrizal fungi and are great for organism. Last but not least is johnson su bioreactor compost and how to do it.

[@carolgreenhill5684]

I can't do that with my clay soil. It is hard pan that has sections that has compacted into actual rock. A backhoe has a difficult time digging in my ground. I would call your soil compacted sand

[@crosstimberspermaculture]

I've been using these methods for years. I grow in nearly 100% rock and clay. I have had ZERO trouble in getting the soils ready for cultivation. However, I will mention, that I don't use the advice given by most permaculture sources. I have a little help from nature. There's a native tree in my area, whose leaves are seemingly perfectly suited to converting these soils, and they do so, much more rapidly, and with much more fertility, than other methods. Simple chop and drop, and knowledge of the correct flora to use in the conversion. Also, slowing down the water. Water is the biggest factor in how fast inputs break down, and how many critters take those inputs deep into the soil. I've also found that certain native plants, help to "till" and enrich the soil faster, than some domestic crops like potatoes or comfrey, as their roots are perfectly evolved for those soils. Also, worm towers are wonderful to use for this. The absence of trees and shrubs in your system, will slow you down as well. My advice, would be to look into the native flora in your area and get them in your garden. More focus on the "perma" in permaculture, will mean more emphasis on native edibles/usefuls.

[@baneverything5580]

Thank you David.

[@dusk1947]

I'm going to say this as a trained plant and soil scientist, who works in conservation: When you establish a no-till system from the start, you must first establish the subsoil conditions you desire. Then enact a no-till plan. I can only encourage no-till, it's fantastic in 90% of the ways people try to use it. But people do not often set it up well. If you do not (at the onset) do things like: break hard pan or set a baseline pH. If you do not counteract negative practices which existed prior, or alter less than desirable natural conditions. Then, you will have to wait for the ecology to do those things. Two or three years in insufficient. What you showed of the forest clearing was exposed remnants of what was topsoil. The material was exposed, eroded and compacted. This resulted in the organic fraction fully decomposing, volatilizing, and eroding away completely until the underlying subsoil was exposed. And you're left with a very compacted top layer. What you’ve show with your composing and mulching can repair that damage and rebuild topsoil. But building more than a few inches takes a considerable amount of time. What you're doing will likely get you to your stated objective. But your time expectation is off. No till takes decades to effect lower soil profiles. You can only effect the top soil in a few years, which you have done. it's that beautiful dark organic matter just below the mulch. In technical terms, you are currently positively effecting what is often described as the "O" or "AP" soil horizon. The clay layer you are showing is not topsoil, it's occupying the first layer of sub soil; the "B" horizon. Your no-till has improved the topsoil. You have not been doing it long enough to effect subsoil, in most conditions. You are right to manually or machine till the subsoil first. Then no-till. No-till is a fantastic practice, but most people don't correctly describe how to first set up the practice. And yes, you will damage the ecology (the biology) when you do your initial till. Then you can spend decades watching it thrive, as the biology should recover in a few months to a few years. Here is a good technical reference on profiles: www.nrcs.usda.gov/wps/portal/nrcs/detail/soils/edu/?cid=nrcs142p2_054308 Why am I commenting? you can talk to the KZbin algorithm. I watch gardening video's regularly and it keeps suggesting new videos :)

[@gsdbellaoneone9325]

I really appreciate your input and explanation of establishing good soil. Thank you.

[@momentiummonroe1475]

Really helpful post. So It'd probably be better to implement No-till in a large raised bed with the correct soil conditions rather than using the No-till method to correct preexisting sub soils?

[@xyzsame4081]

Thanks for the explanation, very much appreciated. - I also think it may have been different outcome if it would not rain so much, Neither plants nor moles or worms are motivated to leave the well nourished, moist comfort zone which she has created for them - there are enough nutrietns and always enough or even a surplus of water. Plants which can have deep roots would have to make an effort to send down the roots, when it gets dryer. The earth worms would be more motivated to eat at least a little bit of the unattractive soil. It costs them more energy.

[@tunatuna711]

This is such a relief to hear. I have soil in zone 6b which is compacted red clay. I established several new garden beds under what used to be a parking lot (so starting with no topsoil). I removed the top 4-6" of asphalt, gravel, and this gray contractor dust, which had all been mechanically compacted prior to laying the asphalt, along with the top layer of soil down to where I saw no more black asphalt flecks. In some spots where the asphalt had seeped down in pockets, this meant I removed the top 12" of soil into my dumpster, as I don't want to grow vegetables in presence of heavy metal. Needing to get the first garden in quickly, I only dug about 12" down and incorporated straw, grass clippings, and office paper into the hard clay and topsoil. I used a pickaxe to break up the clay after it dried in the sun, but in some areas was able to use a spading fork. Then I mulched heavily, 4-6". The vegetables did fine here by the end of the summer, but it was a pain to establish them. The bed suffered from both getting waterlogged and then being too dry once the summer heated up and needing watered. In the second bed, there was no topsoil left, having been completely under the parking lot. I dug 36" (3 feet down, made a giant pit). I broke up a giant tree limb that fell in a storm and laid it in the bottom of the pit, vines, grass, shredded office paper, weeds, a lot of sticks, random food scraps, and the original clay in layers. I tried to make a "hugelkultur" but in a pit instead of a hill ("lochkultur"?) since so much soil had been removed that the ground was level in the end. Even though the top layer was clay, as there has been no topsoil present in this bed, this bed did a lot better once I got the seedlings established and mulched. In fact, the plants growing over the tree limb did the best. My third garden went in about 4 weeks after planting tomatoes in my zone, so very late. This was also completely under where the parking lot had been, and this is the section where I had to dig deep down to root out pieces of asphalt. The top layer was orange sticky clay, and at this point I had no organic matter, having thrown all on hand into my "lochkultur". I imported several loads of leaf mulch from the free city pile, dug it in a little, but ended up just dumping 4-6" of mulch on top just to fill in the hole. This bed took the longest to get established, as the mulch needed watered a lot until the plants were established. So which bed did the best? All 3 beds had issues with plants showing discolored leaves and nutrient deficiencies early on...until I was able to secure a good 4-6" of green grass mulch in mid-summer. The city's free leaf mulch was good for protecting the soil, but I apparently didn't have enough nitrogen. The lochkultur bed is the best off now, and I am sure it can be a no-till bed going forward. The third bed made almost entirely of leaf mulch will probably be fine to no till, but I'm not sure. The top 4-6" of leaf mulch turned into soil by the end of the summer. The first bed that was just on the edge of the parking lot and started out with some topsoil is actually in the worst condition. I know I will need to do a lochkultur to get a well drained clay bed which doesn't bake into brick to fix that bed, before it can become no till.

[@Nicoedmus11]

Hi @dusk194. I have a farm that has been doing hay for 20 years. We bought with the intent to bring it back to live over the course of the next 10-15 years. Obviously the foundation work at the beginning is the most important. I have been watching Richard perkins with keyline design but the area I am working first is apparently waterlogged. Should I still rip the going with a keyline plough and till it all up first?

[@bigpete4227]

The idea behind no till gardening is that you don’t disturb the biology of the soil. That is barely soil so you are totally justified in hacking into it as much as you can.

[@davidthegood]

I like the way you think.

[@lizeggar2421]

One place we had in Africa, where there are dry winters, with no rain for around five months, the clay was so hard that it broke the plough. We had to wait a couple of months for it to rain before we could plough.

[@bigpete4227]

@@lizeggar2421 I couldn’t imagine living in such extreme conditions.

[@lizeggar2421]

@@bigpete4227 Oh, when you wait for the rain and you see the first big thinderheads building up on the horizon and watch them coming closer, then you smell the rain, feel the first warm drops on your skin, it is wonderful. There is nothing like it. I live in the UK now, a much softer land, but Africa will always own a piece of my heart.

[@broadwayFan28]

@@lizeggar2421 Too wet, too dry makes a plow cry.

[@kellipatton1163]

I think this is one of those times when an initial deep till might have been a good idea, with some added organic matter, and THEN switch to a no-till system.

[@endfear8315]

Yes, exactly.

[@dystopiagear6999]

That is very, very often the best approach. People sometimes get WAY too dogmatic about never breaking ground EVER, and just find themselves chasing their tails.

[@bbtruth2161]

@@dystopiagear6999 Totally agree. Yes, treat your soil well. No, the ground is not sacrosanct or incapable of healing. I do it a lot. Not all areas I garden or start new do I need it, but only makes sense if you have hardpack. I couldn't agree more about dogmatic gardening practices. All are parts of a whole.

[@j.tylerwillis9076]

Exactly what I have going now. Added tons of organic matter. Tilled in. Sowed fall cover crop. Cover crop will get tilled in early spring next year and then I'll make my rows layered with cardboard and homemade compost and never till again. I'd suggest tilling at least one or two initial times before starting no till. Especailly with new land and clay soil.

[@teatimetraveller]

yes i agree with you. also too much organic matter will reduce root growth, plants need living soil not living organic matter. roots will go down if they have to (to search for fertility), but in a deep mulch they don't need to.

[@jeanpauldupuis]

It should be called,. "no till except for the first one."

[@davidthegood]

That would be reasonable.

[@LTGold007]

I’m surprised more people don’t know about gypsum..add this to your soil and it’s like a thousand tiny little hoes breaking down that clay.

[@rnguyen2516]

@@LTGold007 doesn’t it take take a few years? I added some last year!

[@LTGold007]

@@rnguyen2516 For the first time I dig my beds deep 3 to 4 feet and also add Gypsum and lots of organic material the results are amazing and very large plants. But yes it does take a little time for the Gypsum to work

[@rnguyen2516]

@@LTGold007 wow, thank you so much! I definitely need to go deeper than I thought!

[@ziggybender9125]

I have a suggestion for you. Grow Morringa tree's. Cut them down often and plant the cuttings (free supply once you have one started). Morringa can grow in anything (slowly at first) and showers your soil with tiny leaves that break down quickly and are packed full of nutrients to feed your plants. Over time the roots will penetrate your clay layers with its deep tap root system and provide drainage deep into the ground. An additional perk is their tiny leafs mixed with their branch structure don't provide much shade so they can be planted in close proximity to gardens and will be a benefit without cutting off the sunlight.

[@dylan8285]

That's the kind of clay that you could open up a brick factory for

[@sheilaa1333]

I was too impatient to wait a year to plant so I tilled my hard clay this first year. Thank you for making me not feel like I did it ‘wrong’! 🙂

[@CreedmoorFury]

You did not do it wrong. There, I am a no-tiller and I said it! I learned how to do what we used to do with a tiller, without the tiller. While your way is not technically wrong, it is far easier to do now that I understand exactly how to do without the tiller. And you know what? The biology comes along far faster when we do not till first. The biology in the soil is a must have for vigorous plant growth. Often overlooked and poorly understood. I have 2 examples to work from, both you can see on my page. First is my main Eden bed. It took 3 years to heal into productivity. I tilled it 9 years ago and never again since. Last year I laid Eden 2. It is 30 feet wide by 120 feetlong. It has healed in with only a single years time and will now grow anything. Reason for this? I did not interrupt the soil biology, or the soil mycology. If only I had found a grower with some experience to guide me. 9 years ago I didn't do much with the tube so it was all me with no outside info. I went with what I knew. Turns out other's knew more than I about this even back then. That shifted my thought to a more balanced approach. Have a look at a working Eden grow and see how its done for yourself if you haven't. Not Paul Gautchi's, but someone else's who learned form him and later went on to find their own success. That is the premiere model.

[@Jesus-qv5sw]

It depends, you can till a little bit, not a lot, because tilling so deep makes a critically damage to the soil.

[@emoculli966]

Plow in the fall if you must, the freezing over winter will soften it to workable by spring when it's dry.

[@paulmcwhorter]

I have a small farm in Uganda and have had a similar experience that you describe here. The No Till method can become almost a religion . . . Never till, no matter what. For me, there was simply no way to go to no till by only applying mulch and compost. The clay soil was hard as a rock, and like you, tillage radish and other roots would not penetrate the hard clay. We ended up starting with lots of compost, which we then tilled into the clay, followed by lots of mulch. We have been at it for 8 months and slowly beginning to be able to grow a few things. We have literally brought in hundreds of dump truck loads of cow manure and river hyacinth, and have three full time people who just turn our compost piles, and then deliver the finished compost to the raised beds. After 8 months, we are just barely growing a few things. Unfortunately many offer 'No Till', or 'Back to Eden' or 'Farming God's Way' as a panacea, but unfortunately in hard clay it takes lots of time and investment to begin getting any type of reasonable production. We will continue building the soil by adding compost and mulch, and hope in a few years we will see good production. Really appreciate your video and it was a big help to me.

[@davidthegood]

Thank you, Paul. Water Hyacinth is a great choice. You might add gypsum too, if you can get it. It will help flocculate the clay.

[@bluzytrix]

Hang in there. You are doing the right thing. I did the same. I have very hard clay soil. I brought in many yards of compost plus home grown compost and tilled the soil very well for the first 3 years before adding 8-12 inches of mulch to make a no-till garden. Now I've got a few feet of soil that is easy enough for plants to penetrate and for bugs to work through.

[@PaigeNewberry]

Thank you so much for your comment. I have been frustrated and irritated by the Hundreds of no till/no dig gardening religion videos I’ve watched this spring. I wanted to believe in it. I wanted it to work in my garden. But like you, my soil is concrete. I live in Central Texas where we have rocks and clay. That’s it. There is no topsoil at all. Even after soaking the ground in water overnight, it takes me an hour to dig a hole big enough to plant a tree. There is no way that mulching over this concrete-type soil will give me a garden this year, or for many years. It seems that for some areas of this Earth, the ground must be tilled first before anything else can be done, added or amended. Thank you so much for this video! You have brought one voice of reason and reality into an ocean of “no-till evangelists. Listening to you has helped me trust my own instincts about what I need to do for my own property. Thank you so much!

[@ziggybender9125]

You should research how to make your own inocculated biochar and add that to your soil, it will slow release nutrients and micro biology as well as be an extremely porous material to aid in drainage and oxygen supply

[@SoCalKevin]

I’ve always laughed at the concept of no till on native clay soil. It doesn’t even make sense because there’s no magical way to turn solid clay into fertile soil without injecting organic matter. I compare it to an exercise or diet fad. You cannot get the magical results you’re after by sitting back and doing next to nothing. The soil (and our fat stomachs) are the way they are in the first place due to the lack of proper work. 😂 I’m pretty sure all the businesses that claim “no till” actually till first, then going forward they may practice no till after the soil has already been mostly fixed. You can’t go directly from hard clay to no till. Even commercial no till farmers use expensive machinery to inject manure. Sadly no till is just a marketing gimmick.

[@charlesdevier8203]

My garden here in Mid-Missouri has a clay hardpan below the plow layer. The ground has been in pasture and not tilled for over 10 years. I used my 30 horsepower Kubota tractor with a sub soiler to break channels 20 inches deep, about 3 feet apart. This past season, my sweet corn averaged 9 feet tall. At 77 years old, I am not interested in a "broadfork".

[@briankerr8801]

You gotta till ...I think you're loosing more yeild .if you want quick grows .no till but a good harty plant deserves the right practice.if you dig a hole an fill it with the right layering you achieve the max .an abundant blessings from your grow ...you must till after a time it's just that you want the nutrients that is already there . Add your micro nutrients.carry on .the old methods are the best ..the new ones will cause trees to tip over in strong storms ...... blessings

[@emoculli966]

Exactly! Best tool ever made for hardpan.

[@gkiferonhs]

The first time I tried growing carrots in the clay gumbo we have here in Kansas I ended up with a whole crop of spherical carrots because they just couldn't penetrate the clay.

[@sohailislam3416]

😭😂😂😂😂

[@leskemp33]

As someone who has clay soil, though not as solid clay as yours, and is trying to establish no dig gardens, this was incredibly informative. Thank you.

[@thomasfuchs9451]

We have clay too and it gets rock hard were exposed. However mine was probably never this compacted and had grass and weeds growing on it for 50 years. I guess that already broke down the ground enough and so I went with sheet mulch and compost to create the beds.

[@xyzsame4081]

Either use a minibagger and have the compost, cartons, woodchips ready OR establish raised beds (they help with drainage as well).

[@tylerbrown4483]

Double dig to establish the bed. Then us no dig. It might take you 10 years to establish a healthy soil web in hard clay without digging, but if you aerate it and mix a little organic material in down to a couple of feet, the “damage” you do by double digging will be recovered in just a couple years and your soil web would establish very quickly because the soil is loose and aerated and will attract the right critters.

[@crosstimberspermaculture]

My unsolicited advice, is to take this video with a big grain of salt. There's a conspicuous lack of trees, shrubs, and native species in this garden. Why is that important? Because there's very little "perma" in this permaculture garden. Trees, shrubs, and native species, have roots evolved specifically for these types of soils. By not incorporating these into her system, she is missing VERY key workhorses to convert this soil. Also, worm towers are wonderful to use for this. I use a native tree in my area, whose leaves are uniquely suited to converting clay/rock soil rapidly, and with more fertility, than any other known method. As a matter of fact, the MOST fertile soil in my state, is found under this native tree. Every ecosystem on the planet, has flora like this. I think she is relying on more traditional farming techniques, rather than actual permaculture, which, requires knowledge of botany in the specific area, to be maximally effective.

[@ligynnekenespana]

Many no till farmers do initially till their land for this reason. That top layer looks fantastic.

[@dylanreedy2649]

I tilled mine when I started

[@HootMaRoot]

It's like many parts of the UK they might say they are no till but every 4 or 5 years the ground will be chisel plowed to break up the clay that has hard packed, they also mole plow atleast 2 to 3 foot deep to help with drainage

[@christinebottaro9017]

You must have come across Keyline design by now and its intention of spreading moisture across landscapes and into dirt to encourage moisture retention at depth. The trees that were removed, I would guess, had roots penetrating into the clay hardpan and yet they were removed. It seems counterintuitive. You have two years of beautiful mulch decomposing above the hardpan and good growth of planted cultivars. But you worry about the hardpan clay. I would try native species to your region and check their progress for comparison. Also, many more years of exactly what you began: Patiently building up the mulch layer.

[@ForageGardener]

Its only tilling when you do it annually. when you do it once its normal bed preparation and the soil life will be fine. even enhanced. its when one does it every year thats an issue. You could even remake a bed every 5-7 years and "till" it and it would be fine and even helpful. but not every year. tilling is also only really helpful if you add a LOT of organic matter and then affix a lot of nitrogen with cover crops

[@Pacjam123123]

Agree

[@gailthornbury291]

I gardened on waterlogged clay and had to use raised beds. I’ll never forget the slurping sound the soil made if I attempted to dig. And it smelled bad. Eventually I solved the problem completely in one day. Yes I moved house. Good luck with the garden.

[@valeriesanchez3074]

Here is my theory on a gardening concept. Take the versatile sunflowers. They are known to burst through concrete. They can adapt to many soil conditions. Grow a small field of them, or wherever you are planning a garden. When they produce their seed heads and die off. Cut the stems at soil level. Let their roots decompose in the ground. So next season you have aerated soil, also filled with nutrients stored in those dying roots. Since they have a huge root system, This method would be promising

[@LTGold007]

Very nice info thx

[@Rick-the-Swift]

Nice theory Valerie. My only input would be to consider the reason *why the sunflower roots can break concrete. It's not just because the sunflower roots are that strong, but also because the concrete offered something beneficial for the roots to dig into and expand to produce such pressure (usually open cracks caused by shrinkage in the concrete is how it begins). I'm afraid with a lot of stiff wet clays, the roots simply won't want to dig in and expand the way they do in concrete. A wet bed of uniform clay simply drowns them. It's definitely worth a shot though, as some roots which dig down into the worm holes will help with aeration and nutrients after the plant has died. Our biggest problem is when we clear cut, and the tree roots no longer do this job, as well as their leaves usually get raked up or blown away after they fall into a clear cut area. We need to learn how to garden *with the trees IMO, instead of cutting them all down for our crops and lawns.

[@DJDirtyKirch]

Sunflower is one of the best phytoremediators, it pulls a lot of toxic components out of the ground. So you might want to dispose them the first few years.

[@spdelta3]

Also search Jeevamrut. It helps decomposing faster but also invites earthworms to drill thr holes in clay.

[@katebeemakes]

I do this but with dandelions! They dig deep and then I harvest the flowers and leaves (leaving enough for wildlife of course). Eventually they die off and decompose

[@nigellablossom]

I no-till on heavy clay soil, but I had to add a lot of calcium and interplant a lot of perennials in order to get down past that 5” barrier. Red clover has been a huge help in achieving that. Our main garden is also on a slope, so I dug a number of swales throughout the garden. The swales helped a lot in getting the soil to develop deeper than 5”, too. We are about 6-7 years in.. still no-till. The biggest improvement happened around year 3-4. It just keeps getting better now.

[@RaechelleJ]

I was thinking about calcium helping

[@davidthegood]

Very good.

[@TheRealHonestInquiry]

@@RaechelleJ Gypsum has always been recommended to break up heavy clay (Calcium and Sulfur)

[@DavinStewart]

@@TheRealHonestInquiry That is no longer recommended for some types of clay. Please make sure you are reading the latest research before amending your soil!

[@das250250]

Maybe it's less about breaking down the clay and more about building upward meaning a thicker layer of topsoil through constant growth and decay cycling . Forests build upward not downward ..

[@OrtoInScatola]

You are absolutely right

[@gustavohopkins242]

Still the problem of draining because of that clay. With the amount of rain she gets it has go have an escape or the thicker mulch may end up creating too much anaerobic space where the water pools.

[@troyyoung8167]

Yes. If you add two inches of compost to 14 inches of clay you get a soil that is six parts clay to one part mulch. Of course next year the mulch has broken down to one fifth it’s volume while the clay is still clay so you are back to seven parts clay to one fifth part mulch. That’s a losing battle. Furthermore, if the water table is that high for most of the year your going to drown your plants. Therefore, better to pile the mulch 14” high at the highest spot in the garden and grow in that. Keep adding mulch to keep it at 14” and build from there. Maybe dig a trench to help drain water and use the clay from the trench to give some weight to the compost. I usually find I cant get away with adding much clay.

[@familyfungi]

Check out some of Mark Shepards books. Tree roots break soil and can break concrete. The hydraulic pressure in them is used strategically in combination with water infiltration methods (ripping etc.) But water has to be slowed down and soaked into the soil to increase soil biology. The tree roots provide microcosms and build soil "from the bottom up."

[@OrtoInScatola]

@@familyfungi “tree roots can break concrete”... don’t ask me how I know...

[@karenabrams8986]

I’ve got clay here where I’m trying to garden. I have found mammoth sunflowers to be the best “tillers”. They make a good temporary privacy hedge too. Then I cut them right at the dirt level leaving their earth busting root balls in place. The stalks and heads are useful for making trellises , mulch and bird food.

[@ScottHead]

I am intrigued by the idea of using sweet potatoes as a cover crop on pathways. I find it to be hard to kill and easy to grow. I'm now thinking about more sweet potatoes...

[@beachbear368]

I used sweet potatoes as cover crop on my future food forest ground and it keeps spilling over onto the pathway. I just cleared them out today because I didn’t want to step on it, now I wish I had watched this video first!

[@RaechelleJ]

Same

[@davidthegood]

I found that very innovative of her. She in a non-stop experimenter.

[@blackbway]

Tell that to an early frost. All my leaves got burned by one night of 38 degrees cold spell. Well it's a tropical plant anyway.

[@rommelasibal8315]

did you know the leaves are amazing as a salad? or dip them in vinegar and yum! they also are super in increasing tolerance to malaria/dengue when you eat them raw

[@yeevita]

I used to live where it was clay soil. The best part of the garden, besides growing in containers, was where I had double dug and incorporated organic matter about two shovels deep. Now I am in soil that is partly sandy with no organic matter at all in the dirt, so even now, initially breaking the soil does work well. Where all I did was layer on top, I hit hard pack still, after 5 years lol.

[@christagrote8519]

This was low key brilliant. Incredibly well explained and concise thoughts on a matter that sometimes isn’t as cut and dry as people think.

[@davidthegood]

She had shared some of her issues with me and I said, "hey - can I just come over and let you talk?" I appreciated it as well. Good hearing an experienced gardener's perspective.

[@dontucker9054]

This is my very situation here in Central TX and the Medow Creature is worth evey penny!

[@xaviercruz4763]

@@davidthegood so, man, what is a solution to transform hard soil deeper every year?

[@solarroofing8072]

@@xaviercruz4763 just till it once and there will be enough biology to do the job. most plants only use about the first foot, going deeper than that is not needed.

[@xaviercruz4763]

@@solarroofing8072 Why do you think so?

[@jmacd8817]

Fantastic. I love that she has her design/intent, but is willing to adapt to her environment, and not simply say "well, I do no till, so I can't disturb the soil."

[@susiefitzsimmons1147]

She has done an amazing job in 2 years considering what she started with!

[@rosehavenfarm2969]

We broadfork our clay, too. Daikon did NOT go through our clay, either. We're using a mixture of techniques to build our food forest and annual vegetable gardens.

[@TSis76]

Have come to the same conclusion here in NW Arkansas zone 6B. Predominantly red clay. Despite lots of mulching the red clay underneath is preventing optimum results. Still have a few more sweet potatoes to dig. Have been saving up to get me a broad fork. Btw, YT is not registering my attempt to add to DtG's likes...or anyone elses lately.

[@Nembula]

As a lasagna gardener my heart goes out to you for your battle with the geology. I do till one patch of ground every year the carrot patch. I double dig the new carrot patch so I can get nice long straight carrots. If only my grand children would stop eating them before they get near the house.

[@kenm2679]

This is a time to run a mantis tiller through this. You'll have a beautiful piece of property to grow things in.

[@leslienichols5268]

Wow, you are working so hard! Never saw a better case for raised bed gardening .

[@davidthegood]

Raised beds also require huge amounts of inputs, plus carpentry, plus tons of soil.

[@flatsville1]

@@davidthegood True. But, she could dig/trench out clay soil from the walkways (fill trench with woodchips) to use in the raised beds, add some gypsum & organic matter to the trenched out clay soil. It would take time to condition. Tree limbs and sawmill scab or slab wood held in place with concrete nails makes a rustic raised bed with little expense.

[@t3dwards13]

I have that brick soil in Anaheim Ca. I sprouted Mexican sunflower seeds on it with the hope of breaking it up... It's six feet tall now. Lol I've never thought of forking to help that process. Thank you!

[@dans3718]

She thinks! And plans. Excellent video, Dave. Worked well just letting her do all the talking.

[@davidthegood]

I had nothing worth saying - she is a born teacher.

[@garethbaus5471]

It doesn't look like she really had soil to begin with so she didn't really have any reason to worry about damaging her soil life by digging into it. Where I live the soil is only slightly better in most areas with a few patches of really high quality soil. My parents front yard has about 1000 square feet of the best soil I have ever seen with the rest of their property being mostly clay coincidentally there is at least 1 mole in that area with the good soil providing aeration (although that might be a chicken and egg type situation).

[@GeeCeeAte]

Actually you are doing great! It can take thousands of years for and inch of soil for form naturally. So having 5 inches in two years is amazing.

[@PeregrineFalconZG]

I've done it differently because I was aware that nothing can penetrate clay. So I started do dig deep holes, about 1 meter deep, then put all kinds of material to make a compost-garden bed, and then I've covered it with mixed soil,added some sand, and next year I had a deep garden bed and I could till it to mix everything so I have deep fertile soil wherever I have done that. Now I can do with such gardenbeds whatever I want: work on them in a classical way, no-till... whatever.

[@JohnKing-pp1pq]

great video - there is a KZbin video by Gabe Brown on turning dirt to soil. He has pretty much pioneered turning his ranch into an ecosystem using no-till farming.

[@anitapaulsen3282]

Loved this awesome mini documentary! So well done! When I was a kid and we lived in Hawthorne, California I wanted to put in a vegetable garden. Our soil had a lot of blue adobe under it. A lawn grew on top so we dug the grass under, broke up the adobe and planted. We had an awesome garden. I can't remember if my dad added manure or anything, but everything grew great. It never would have if we hadn't broken up that adobe. Because of the adobe when it rained there would be puddles for a long time in the lawn where I went to school. Frogs would lay eggs in the puddles and we would catch pollywogs (that's what us kids called tadpoles). For puddles to last that long in places just shows how impenetrable the adobe was.

[@davidthegood]

This is a A LOT like adobe. What a great story!

[@bajamerica]

I have the same problem. You can add 14 inches of compost on cement too, if there's a drain somewhere. Same results. If you don't allow an initial mix, the underlying soil remains barren and impenetrable. Adding fertile compost is just the same as accelerating decades of natural forest deposits. Problem with purists of no till is favoring ideology over results. Common sense is the best ideology. Whatever the crop, what is the natural depth of the roots? That's how deep you need to have arable base. Adding sand first, and mixing it in to the clay layer for particle separation and drainage is a good option, IMO. Clear all the existing compost, till, add sand, then cover with compost / good soil / and mulch. There is no microbial action in compacted clay. That's why nothing grows there.

[@stardust9072]

add sand is a bad idea. only can add compost or organic materials into clay. if u want to add sand, u must add like 70% or more sand, 20% clay and 10% organics.

[@thatguychris5654]

Prime candidate for Terra Preta. Lots of work for the initial setup but no work after that and the results last for many generations. Worth the effort!

[@nikmabc]

I think that compaction layers can form underground "pools" that become dead zones. Interestingly, these pools can be good or bad. During a dry spell, they could act as reservoir, but in a rainy season it could flood and kill the life underground. Interestingly, I watched a video on soil water permeability and the soil capacity to hold water. In an example, it mention how deep rooted plants were necessary to remove excess water in the soil(absorbs water and respires it).

[@LibertyNotLicense]

DtG, is an encouragement in troubled times. We are very thankful for him and for his content.

[@davidthegood]

That is kind of you.

[@nickduxfield4324]

Try not bury and sticks, they need to stay as mulch. Only compost should be buried

[@wandapurvis8643]

You started me gardening last year and this year I harvested my first sweet potatoes and had plenty of Okra and peppers. I am learning and so glad to find you are in Alabama near me. You took the fear out with grow or die and free plants for everyone so bless you.

[@crescentgarden6819]

I feel like mixing all that organic matter into the clay while breaking it up is the best idea. It will loosen the ground and the organic matter will keep it from compacting. Plus all d life in the organic matter will help to extract the minerals from the clay.

[@user-nf5ut9g1y]

Did exactly that, broke the heavy clay layer with my hands mixed in organic matter and this way saved my avocado tree that is now proudly exposing new shiny green leaves. The other one died due to being waterlogged as the water couldn't pass through the heavy clay layer and just sat under the woodchips. Although I support no till approach, on certain occasions tillage, I believe, is necessary.

[@danielallouche2493]

Get forestry compost. The particulates are much bigger and will keep the clay from regrouping and dont forget to add biochar.

[@dizzyos]

Quartz Sand/River Sand. With compost mixed in clay you will get nothin. Compost is for upper layer (where it should be, as in nature).Btw, everything around us is organic :) Even Clay is organic.

[@danielallouche2493]

@@dizzyos Sorry to disappoint but rocks and sand are mineral and are only bioavailable with the aid of fungus. Yes clay is organic and is a great source of plant food but when too densely packed prevents drainage

[@re1ss]

@@danielallouche2493 what would you recommend for clay?

[@TheTrueabundance]

Except for having very little rain, I have the same challenge here in the south of Spain. Hard clay. After 4 years of growing only in my mulch, now I know to till down before adding my mulch. Thanks for the video!

[@davidthegood]

Thank you.

[@kathycook1815]

Excellent video - would like to follow her journey into next season if possible.

[@babichevi7950]

There is no one size fits all. We need to pay attention and adapt to the evidence. I think it’s obvious that in your case, the evidence suggests that breaking up the hard pan below and allowing the organic matter to penetrate sound like an excellent idea.

[@davidthegood]

Agreed.

[@ausfoodgarden]

I had a similar issue in my last garden. I broke up the top layer of clay and THEN added organics in and on top. After that, I no-tilled (or should it be no-dig) and had good results. Never thought of sweet potatoes as a cover crop - nice one!

[@cherriemckinstry131]

That clay that was rock hard ( you knocked on with your fist) reminds me of what our back yard had when we moved in. So many times people buy a new house, especially in a tract development, the top soil is stripped off and about an inch is replaced with some straw and grass seed. So having a mulching mower that puts the clippings back is beneficial. But if you do collect clippings, do use them in garden beds for compost. Nothing like that should not go into a landfill. We rented this drum roller with spikes thats supposed to help allow water to penetrate down into the soil. It was an eye opener to see water after a rain storm turn the lawn into a big mud puddle.

[@mikhailkalashnikov4599]

Watching this makes me think I've taken for granted our awesome river bottom soil- so glad I don't have to contend with this situation!

[@harpstone]

I was just digging into my no-till beds yesterday. Phenomenal! Beautiful black soil as deep as my hands will go - nothing but compacted ashy silt four years ago. It takes time and it does work. I am convinced that no-till is a viable option - yet a patient one! For best results, alternate layers of brown (carbon) with green (nitrogen) as you build up. I think the garden in this video is mostly carbon without enough nitrogen and is not working optimally. If you're not seeing hundreds of wiggling, scurrying, burying insects in all shapes and sizes upon inspection, it's not biological enough.

[@carbrock.2854]

What was your pre-existing soil (hard clay, sand, already healthy topsoil)? How deeply do you mulch? How old is the garden bed?

[@harpstone]

@@carbrock.2854 Pre-existing conditions were compaction and no fertility (silty), basically a desert. Organic matter (waste) was added in alternate layers: carbon (brown stuff) and nitrogen. Not much nitrogen (green stuff) is required, just sprinkle lawn clippings, non-invasive weed discards, urine (if you're down), food waste, etc. It's not about how deep, it's about how high. Keep piling up and up because the layers will shrink continuously as they're being devoured, leaving you with a deep bank of topsoil suitable for planting. Eventually, plants with deep taproots will go down and bring up minerals from the clay layer below, further enhancing the bed. Microorganisms, some fauna, and roots are the only tillers. All we do is keep piling and pull weeds as needed.

[@unything2696]

You can't dismiss the different conditions and stick to a one solution fits all. She tried and it's just not working as well. Maybe some nitrogen would have helped, but pretty sure no miracle would have happend. Worms and other helpers were very rare to begin with in this soil that drowns everything and feeds nothing. So you basically multiply with 0 or very small numbers. Initial till with addition of C and N and maybe some worm eggs or similar and then do what she did (and she did well on that).

[@festorfamine]

Silty soil is totally different then clay soil which she have. You have drainage, she doesn't. She mentioned that she get a substantial amount of rain, and with no drainage it would create a soggy soil condition which is not optimal for worms, insects, microbes, etc.

[@harpstone]

@@festorfamine Yes - I think the number one problem with this particular garden is drainage. A terrestrial garden must eventually drain away after a rain event and this issue must be resolved first through grading, engineering, etc. before planting. Otherwise, a semi-aquatic rain garden may be a solution for a site that doesn't drain adequately.

[@cqammaz53]

I deeply enjoyed her story as my story is similar.

[@davidthegood]

Thank you, Carolyn.

[@Cici1791]

The broadforking will help, but I think you need to keep on at building the soil upward by consistently adding compost and mulch, and then sowing cover crops that will stay in the ground as living mulch over the winter, and letting them decompost down in the spring before sowing the spring crops. Also, you seem to be in a very woody area... so if you have access to lots of leaves, you can make lots of leaf mould which is fabulous for breaking up clay soil. Layering a thick pile of mowed-down leaves over your beds will attract lots of worm friends into the soil, and they'll break up all that goodness and bring it down to the bottom layers.

[@RaadYacu]

That looks tougher than the red clay we have here in South Carolina. Clay hold on to moisture and its really the worst of the soils I really like the work you have done with soil and mulch.

[@lfrias78]

The approach I took no tilling or deep mulching is not focusing on changing the native soil but building soil above that. I dont believe you can ever change the native soil long term. It always seems to reclaim it back to what it was. I do admire and respect the curiosity is gardeners, it is what drive us to learn and adapt. Great video and great idea on the sweet potato pathways. I struggle with Bermuda crawling in from the pasture.

[@davidthegood]

Bermuda is terrible stuff in a garden.

[@cleonawallace376]

This video has really been great for me and my confidence!... we are just starting out on our land with very heavy clay. We're in Italy and we get quite a lot of rain, but we have long very dry summers. I'm studying permaculture and am a big believer in soil ecology, but after much angst I've decided to use the rototiller to initially break up our clay and then immediately amend it with various organic materials. Then after that it'll not be tilled again.

[@alfredosalazar526]

Yes my soil is the same, first layer of soil is great but underneath is sand and clay!

[@AniketNevrekar]

I have a similar situation. Been experimenting with different techniques over 10 years to improve the soil. Here's what seems to work: Dig 1 ft deep and mix organic matter (like mulch, vermicompost, manure, plant clippings and bone meal). Hydrate the soil and plant something (like corn, okra, spinach, red amaranth, tomatoes) in it immediately. Keep the soil mulched with up to 5 cm thick cover. Grow cover crops when you're not growing anything else. Now once your soil has improved, it would definitely be a good idea to switch to no-till approach to keep the soil bacteria, worms and insects happy.

[@pingfan3828]

I am so glad to see someone using sweet potato vine as a ground cover like me. We also has a lot of rain in summer. In fact, our tomatoes get killed with too much rain since we don't have frost here. My grandparents used to feed their pigs with sweet potato vines, too. Nice memories come back with those images. Thank you for the great video.

[@MalkiZee]

How much trampling do the sweet potatoes take? Can you really walk on them all season?

[@pingfan3828]

@@MalkiZee Not really. Light traffic is fine.

[@tammy-lynnstewart5677]

I'm having similar issues. My back yard is gravel, rocks, boulders and construction backfill cement chunks, asphault and a wee bit of sand. I've spent many many hours trying to get my ground built up with mulch and soil that does not cost me a 2nd mortgage. I think by the time I get it built up, I'll be too old to garden lol.

[@danielallouche2493]

Tammy-Lynn All you really need is 8 inches to start Davids lasagna method is a great way to begin a garden. You can grow beans and peas in last yours leaf mold.Every year your soil will get better. Grow your soil and the plants will take care of themselves .

[@mjk9388]

@@danielallouche2493 Agree with Daniel. Also, don't forget the power of roots! I greatly slowed down the building of my own soil because I was waiting until better soil conditions to put plants in. Had I known about soil biology back then I would have planted a cover crop of perennial alfalfa, red clover and chicory to aid in the soil building process. The microbes feed off the sugar (exudates) from the roots and that's what builds the soil faster. You'll want soil creation going on above and below.

[@createvision8109]

🤣 same for me. But I could improve the quality slowly. I stopped complaining. I consider digging exercising with natural resistance, gravels I use as boundary for my veg plots and pathways, sand as important for drainage of soil etc etc

[@mildredwilkins5781]

I have one season of gardening behind me. My family did market farming when I lived at home. 50 years ago. But I had great success growing dense clay by BUILDING UP. I studied lots and lots and lots of videos. I considered digging down and starting but I had no way to do that. This is what I did which worked. I laid sheets of heavy card board directly on the hard clay. Watered it to help create an environment for worms. Then I did a version of the HUGEL METHOD, on top of the ground. I added..... Leaves, sticks, straw, shredded paper, leaf mulch and gin trash to relate a raised bed 1o inches deep. Topped it with compost and top soil. Set out my sweet potatoes and mulched with another layer of straw. It worked, beyond my wildest expections. No grass, limited watering,. The combo I created was EXACTLY right for the potatoes to thrive. I gave them 5 months. They were bountiful, many very large. I was able to HAND DIG them. The soil was really loose, and best of all had changed perhaps 1-2 inches of the clay area beneath it. I have already added more of the same materials to my bed for this 2022 SEASON. I used the same HUGEL adapted method in 20+ container with the same wonderful results. I made 1 MAJOR change which I had not read anywhere. I did NOT put drain holes in the bottom,.. INSTEAD, I put them on the sides 2 inches from the bottom. Since my containers averaged about 14-16 deep this created a water reservoir, didnt leach my nutrients out with water runoff, reduced watering and the added and continual moisture helped all my layers to break down during the season to support beautiful plants with high yields. I used egg shells and numerous other things to enhance the production of my vegetables but this discussion is about soil prep. Wet cardboard/straw/shredded paper are ALL things which will cause bacteria and worms to improve your soil. For you. While you are away doing something else. I urge you to try. But mostly I urge you to utilize WHATEVER you have, to plant food. Think. Be willing to think outside the box. Give it a shot. Be blessed.

[@d.w.stratton4078]

Ah yes, my Meadow Creature is a beast. Love it.

[@sampinion5796]

Clay is prone compaction through rain fall, years of the surface being open to the elements will stack up layer upon layer of compaction whilst eroding or washing away what top soil is left. The idea of the broad fork is to break up those compaction layers whilst minimising the impact on the soil food web. More importantly you need to kick start the reformation of the soil food web by using a compost rich in microbial life, although you have a good amount of organic matter on the surface there is seemingly a lack of lift within it. A healthy soil microbiome will help increase the process of flocculation where positively charged calcium ions bind to the surface of the clay particles repelling them and consequentially reducing compaction. Look into making microbe rich compost or compost tea, alongside proper use of the broad fork you should remedy your compaction problem.

[@reneetempleton6332]

Can't get a broad fork thru my clay when dry and it is the consistency of pure modeling clay when wet .

[@Frugal_granny]

Thanks for your video! It’s nice seeing someone show the errors in the “non-regional” based popular gardening techniques showcased on KZbin. Often they aren’t explaining their regional environment so we can have fuller picture of why it worked!

[@yamwhatyam77]

Well done Elizabeth, you make us all proud and strive for similarity.

[@tenntech40]

We’re in the south. We have clay and a ton of rain. Basically a clay mud bog. We tilled once just to break up the clay then switched to no-till. Tilling isn’t the end of the world.

[@lyndabuchholz1216]

I just had an argument with a person who told me I could have good soil if I continued to mulch but the same thing happens here. There is a layer of clay that nothing can get through. Trees just die. I am also experimenting to find ways to break up the clay. I bought a broad fork like you have. I am almost not strong enough to use it. My last experiment is using humic acid. You have given me some wonderful information! Thank you!

[@rosehavenfarm2969]

All our cherry trees died because of the clay layer. Sad.

[@Woodchipengineer]

I always plant directly into native soil, after parting my Woodchips. I’ve never had this problem.

[@user-pt3bv3jl3v]

Lay aside the mulch layer, till the crap out of that compacted anaerobic layer, no air or water get through, that means no life to harm, no roots that are still alive. Till the entire garden until the clay is broken down into chunks. THEN, cover again with compost, then leaf mulch and wood chips, then a thin layer of manure (horse or rabbit is best), plant your seedlings into the compost layer, cover with the leaf mulch. It'll grow well. 👌

[@lyndabuchholz1216]

@@rosehavenfarm2969 I have lost most of my trees till I figured out the problem. I now have a tractor with an auger and I drill a hole through the clay layer and put things in the bottom of the hole to prevent the clay from compacting there so water can drain and I hope more bug action will begin to work the soil. My tiller doesn't till very deep so I am hoping this will work. It is a constant experiment. I get lots of suggestions and have already tried most but I keep trying.

[@rosehavenfarm2969]

@@lyndabuchholz1216 Yes, keep trying! Layers of leaf mold, woodchips, mulch, compost, etc, work on top of clay like our's WILL work with no mechanical manipulation of the soil...IF you can leave it for ten years. We don't want to wait that long, frankly. We are preparing a certain part of the food forest that way. First, heavy use of the broad fork. Second, leave the chickens on that area for half the summer. Broadfork again. Cover with paper, and cover the paper with chicken coop poop straw, composted horse manure, leaf mold, spoiled food, dried grass clippings, food scraps...you name it. Cover the whole thing with spoiled hay. Leave over winter. Next year we're planting irish potatoes in the southern most part of that plot, and some young trees and bushes just north of that. In the area where the cherry trees gave up the ghost, we made raised beds. This area has had woodchips on it three years. There are some parts that are lovely soil, although not deep before hitting that awful yellow sticky clay, and other parts that are still hardpan. Ugh. We raised the white flag this past year, and covered part of the area with paper and a deep layer of mulch; then we poked holes and planted squash. The squash leaves, of course, kept that area from baking into "ceramic." We did the same this fall to prepare for next year, but made raised beds in the rest of the area. Not built with wooden sides, but mounded up what we dug out of what will be the paths and amended. Sowed ladino clover in paths. We will try to grow beans in these raised beds next year. Keep trying!

[@douglasanderson7301]

I think the "science lab" mentality is right on. Mother Nature doesn't have a monocrop mentality or a one size fits all 'solution' for gardeners. I've been aiming towards a no-till garden but this fall had to double dig a raised bed to add material. I had created almost zero compost through the year with almost zero rain. So for me more tools and solutions is the best system.

[@aw5832]

One yard revolution gardening chanel shows how deep his soil has improved under wood chips in his walking paths. It went 18 inches deep but took 6 years if I remember correctly. You can probably expect 3 inches down per year.

[@SailingFanatic]

I've been an organic gardener for over 60 years. I have a lot of experience with clay soil. You're on the right track. My advice is to broad fork and mix four-foot-wide permanent beds then use a transfer shovel to transfer 5 or 6 inches of mulch/soil from your walkways creating raised beds. Then apply 4 inches of compost to the top of each bed twice each year. Use your bark chips to suppress weeds in your walkways but use only compost on your growing beds. You will never need to till again. Every few years you can harvest the topsoil from your walkways and add to your raised beds. Just don't use the bark chips on top that aren't broken down yet. Then start the process over by adding 4 to 6 inches of bark chips to your walkways. I typically have 2 or three round compost piles about 12 to 15 feet wide and up to 8 feet tall going all the time, covered with black plastic. The more compost you can make the better. My compost inputs are leaves, weeds and hay from my field. I don't use any manure or amendments. My garden plants are robust and disease-free. I use only open-pollinated heirloom varieties. I live in upstate NY zone 5 and grow year-round. Don't get discourages with your clay soil. It is a blessing. It is the most fertile soil going once you have broken it up and mixed it with compost. That is when the worms will fully incorporate it into your compost/soil. Keep your beds evenly watered. That's what worms like. Let the worms do the work. They will aerate your soil and leave worm castings behind making your soil very nutritious for your plants. Every year your soli will get better and better. Feed your soil, not your plants. Your soil loves compost.

[@alexanderjsdowding]

Excellent video. Very informative. What I have seen in my own experience with laying down organic mulches on hard clay soils is that it is very much a long term project. Each year you notice the soil condition improving just a little more until five to ten years down the line you can end up with something remarkably different from what was there when you started adding organic matter. My own experience has taught me that you need to be patient and persistent. Nature will do the rest. No need for back breaking work unless you need to speed up the process dramatically for whatever reasons.

[@CrispinFreemont]

Think of what you can make with all that clay when your interests expand to ceramics.

[@palillo2006]

I tilled for the first 2 years with a lot of organic matter for your reason. The clay was way too hard and the organic matter had to mix in. I'm in my 5th year and everything has been great for the last 3 years.

[@janetwestrup411]

We had hard pan clay like what you have. The first 15 yrs I tilled sand and organic material into that clay. It wasn’t as sticky as before but still not good soil. We had to break that hard stuff up with machinery, and then we added 6 inches of tree service chips, fallen leaves and homemade compost. We noticed a great transformation and have not tilled since. Just keep layering chips and compost each yr. The garden soil is wonderful now. To let the garden plot rest this yr, I’m not messing with tilling or amending in a new garden, I built raised beds with half inch hardware cloth on the bottom for gopher control and filled the beds with hugelkulture and a transplant mix soil from a local nursery, then added homemade compost around new plants which acts like a top mulch as well. No weeds, or messing around tilling. Life just keeps getting better😆

[@tommymckiddy7872]

I'm currently digging rhizome grass out of my garden and I've noticed that in the areas with mulch it won't penetrate the hard ground either. It will grow along the soil under the mulch but it won't go into the soil.

[@the_earthway]

Thanks!! Our new farm in Romania has very hard black clay. We have talked about tilling and now know we will! Great job!

[@keralee]

At least you are getting food...from your top layer. The rye sounds like a good idea... Maybe with alfalfa too, nitrofixer plus very deep roots? I was once trying to dig through ancient hardpan in Montana. It was so hard, we resorted to dynamite and even that would just crack it up and loosen it a bit...it was rubbery like leather. What was amazing to me was that the roots of some of the tough prairie grasses were actually down into the stuff!

[@chrismartin5859]

I have similar soil here in NE Ohio, but with the added joy of rocks (we are on the terminal edge of a morain). I also have the same broadfork and used it for years with little to show except dead soil and a bad knee. I have since converted to composting everything that grows in, or falls onto my yard with wood chips as a carbon dense addition. I sift this compost and make garden rows from it by piling it on the clay soil and then lightly cultivating it into the clay a little at each turn of crops. After 2 years of effort this method has been a huge success and allowed me to develop rich soil almost 12-16" INTO the clay "bathtub". There is a middle ground between no-till, and plowing clay soil that can work with time and work, but the continuous addition of composted material is a must. Trial and error is your best friend because every acre of soil is different.

[@rewanthr]

This is the info I have been looking for in KZbin for so long! Thanks for posting this

[@cqammaz53]

Did you try sunflowers? I heard that's good for hard soil. Anyways your garden looks great and hats off to you for tackling all this obstacle. Happy gardening in the coming years

[@ianonley65]

You’re on to it. It will be beautiful productive soil in no time. Breathing with the rhythm of the earth. Great job.

[@teresastaalcowley8521]

Your soil looks like what my soil was when I purchased my home in March 2005. I have clay soil and glacial till with lots of rocks. I live in Western Washington, zone 8, lots of rain as you do. I have composted, amended my soil and added organic fertilizer made by Black Lake Organics in Olympia, WA. Thank I learned so much from you in this video. I have not been able to get sweet potatoes to grow, will follow your advice.

[@brianbarnhart8623]

Excellent video David and Elizabeth. I think I need to get a broad fork. I will also need to buy more sweet potatoes.

[@melanieallen3655]

I love the idea to use sweet potatoes as ground cover!!

[@jcrockett870]

She has made an enormous amount of progress.

[@giselaschropp1760]

I' m dealing with this clay layer problem as well

[@nexinarus]

Excellent experience over belief. I found digging in food scraps and mulch while forking very helpful, get the worms to work! It really made a difference, give it a trial

[@roberttillotson6861]

My situation was similar. I ended up rototill of year one compost and mulch into clay. From there I have kept mulch up in flowers beds and broadfork compost into garden beds. It has made a huge difference.

[@chadeller5588]

Here's a success story directly relevant to this video: I had 20 year old clay plow pan in my new garden. It was rock hard and 3 inches thick, but I managed to break a couple holes in it with a pickaxe before I gave up. Then I found (and followed) Steve Solomon's (author) advice for balancing the soil, in part by using calcium sulfate (gypsum). This treatment allowed the base saturation (see "cation exchange capacity") to come closer to ideal. These ratios are often out-of-whack where there is high rainfall (both in the video and my garden!), due to calcium leaching and/or high magnesium subsoils). The next year I dug down to the plow pan again to inspect, but this time it was so soft I thought I must be digging through an old hole, so I dug a bunch more holes and it was the same story everywhere. The clay was still there, but was no longer "tight", and the plow pan was just soft clay. Water could now penetrate the entire layer, allowing drainage and root growth. What an amazing change in only one year! Calcium sulfate FTW!

[@davidthegood]

Great work! Chemistry is key.

[@davidthegood]

Steve is a personal friend of mine. He knows how soils work.

[@chadeller5588]

@@davidthegood I've read every book he's written. Some twice.

[@chadeller5588]

@@davidthegood (I'm a chemist)

[@diannej2406]

Thanks so much for sharing your experiences. We also have clay similar to yours in a wet climate. Coincidentally, I spent yesterday planting a 30" x 50' bed of garlic following a deep broadforking and rock removal. This is the end of year 2 gardening at this land where we've been using deep mulching. Our soil layering looks very similar to yours although your clay may actually be harder than ours .... something I wouldn't have thought possible! We bought a broadfork this year and decided to give it a go. Definitely seems to have benefits, but we've also had more even rainfall this year then last years constant deluges that turned us into a hillside swamp. Curious if you've done any test digs to see how deep the clay layer goes? We put in a septic system last fall/early this spring that required a bunch of digging. In one area the clay seems to go down forever. Other spots we have layers of clay, shale, gravelly looking stuff, basically way more stratified. We're planning on tilling a trial area next year to see if that's helpful.

[@ohly1290]

thank you for sharing your experiences, they match with my observations. i believe initially pulverizing the soil and immediately putting a covercrop in to stabilize the soil with roots is the way to go. afterwards i would continue broadforking before every new planting, until you feel that it becomes unnecessary. mulching to feed and protect the soil is great, but i believe that maintaining soil structure through root mass is more important and often overlooked.

[@ShirleyHardyAu]

My backyard is just like that but it starts at the surface. The best way to get water to soak into the soil, which is what you want it to do, is to dig it up and break it into as smaller chunks of clay as you can. Adding organic material helps but the nutrients disappear really quickly. However, clay is one of those soil types that soaks up and holds water in itself. If left to dry out it turns into something like concrete. The best way to get clay to soak and hold water is to soften it and keep it cool, soft and wet. This can be easily done by adding 3-4 layers of paper over your topmost layer of organic matter. Any type of paper (including glossy paper) will do. Then cover the paper with a thin layer of plant debris. After 7 months water will soak into the soil rather than flood. Also, intentionally let weeds grow in the area to help loosen up the soil further. Mulch them straight back into the ground or on the ground. I done this and found by keeping the clay soft and wet plant roots can penetrate the clay so much easier. After 2 years dig it up and loosen up the clay further into smaller chunks as clay will attract and bind to each other. Hardpan clay is a nightmare.

[@lidiaseebeck9302]

Elizabeth, you're doing absolutely fabulous for what you have done. I live in Colorado, and we have a tremendous amount of compacted and even cemented soils in a VERY dry context. Yes, you do need to do a "single disturbance" (better late than never) but be careful not to mix large pieces of organic matter like woodchips into the soil layers. It's perfectly okay to mix humus down into the soil. Your roots can't do into that hardpan because there is no oxygen down there. That is the same case for your microbes. Yes, broadfork your hardpan, then go no-till as you have described.

[@patricknguyenbrewer2618]

You don’t have to till , just build up your grow beds higher and higher every year, some people build up their beds to 3’ deep or even more

[@DavinStewart]

She needs to be careful if she's considering mixing in woodchips into her soil. Assuming the woodchips are from chopped up limbs and not just the outer bark then they'll tie up much of the nitrogen in the soil for a couple years as they degrade. She'll have a hard time growing anything in that soil without excessive fertilizing until those woodchips degrade. If the wood chips are all degraded already (looks like much of it is) then it may be mostly fine but I suspect she'll still have some problems. If you're considering doing this with fresh wood chips ... DON'T! Wood chips are generally advised as a mulch, not a soil amendment, and even then not for shallow rooted plants since they can pull nitrogen out of the top couple inches of soil. Tree bark is an exception to this rule since it is generally much higher in lignin content and so doesn't pull nitrogen as strongly as it degrades. Here in NC, we use pine bark fines as the soil amendment of choice just for that reason. They do a very good job at opening up the soil structure and don't suck all the nitrogen out of the soil. In addition, they are very low in nutrients so you can add large quantities into the soil without worrying about over-fertilizing (clay soils do an amazing job of holding onto nutrients like potassium and phosphorous). Hope that helps.

[@CharlesGann1]

With the decompositon she is showing it isnt likely she will suffer a two year infertility. Maybe with raw wood chips but thisis is more urban myth than factual. Plussne is not getting subsurface integration anyway. Essentially she is doing lasagna gardening on a parking lot. Just a different perspective.

[@tribulation138]

if you till wood chips in forget it. but leave it on top it works fine.

[@JXZ-JAM]

That is really only a concern when; 1.When the wood is freshly cut and NOT aged 2. Said wood is DEEPLY buried in SOIL or COMPOST. Not in mulch or other woodchips. Furthermore, though it is true that the wood can cause a nitrogen sink in the soil, the silver lining is that once it reaches a certain level of decay, it will redistribute that nitrogen back out to other plants in the long run.

[@TheGreatDrAsian]

No-Till makes sense when you don't want to tear up the mycelia of the soil, but when you're starting with basically just clay there's almost no mycelia to hurt. I'd say it's best to till the clay at least once to loosen it as deeply as possible while mixing in organic matter, then leave it alone to do its thing and build up from there. Good video showing the pros and cons, thank you for being honest and realistic about what worked and what didn't!

[@mrs.cindynipper]

I had different reasons, but I built an underground Hugelkultur bed with the help of my husband and his tractor. We put a bucket worth of our clay soil as the top layer, and then mulched. My area is roughly 20x20 ft. I have since been layering a variety of mulches (hay, straw, wood chips, compost, leaves, grass clippings, and pine needles), and I think leaves work the best at retaining water here in the desert of Idaho. I'm growing many perennial fruits. And interplant lots of annual vegetables, as well as lots of herbs, and flowers as the fruit bushes are still quite small. Although, I still get lots of dandelions, and field bind weed, my soil has greatly improved over the last 4½ years!

[@johnterry8958]

I had almost the same experience with no-till failure on clay soil. We had about 2 inches of topsoil and underneath was clay that would have made a wonderful cob house. I watched the videos touting the wonders of no-till gardening and so I put on a bunch of compost and wood chips without tilling, and it was a total failure. It was clear that it would take decades of mulching without tilling for anything good to happen. I've been fighting that clay soil for several years. Every year I ROTOTILL the heck out of it, with last year's compost and decomposed wood chips getting tilled in. Finally, it's starting to come around. Each fall I put all the leaves from the trees on the garden, which makes a layer about a foot to 1.5 feet thick, and then I run over the leaves with the lawn mower which pulverizes them almost to powder. That makes a nice mulch about 3 inches thick that covers it for the winter, and in the spring I rototill the leaf mulch into the soil, along with last year's compost and wood chips, and then I put on more compost and wood chips, then I plant. All that nice theory about no-till promoting soil biology, etc., doesn't work for me at all. LOTS of mulch and LOTS of tilling, and plenty of fertilizer and Azomite, does.

[@PegsGarden]

This was such an informative video!! Does she have a youtube channel??

[@angieagentlesoul]

your solution lies with Charles Dowding of No Dig gardening. If you ever intend to fix your soil, it"s a must watch!

[@tommymckiddy7872]

Damn. I thought my soil sucked. I'm tilling for the last time this year. After this I"m just going to fork my beds. I'm looking for a good broad fork without having to spend a fortune.

[@idiocracy10]

I am curious if the plants are blunted more by the anaerobic layer over the clay due to the pooling water there, or if it is the compaction psi required to get thru it.

[@carbrock.2854]

Just another reason to broadfork; it will help with getting water down deeper into the soil.

[@idiocracy10]

@@carbrock.2854 Yes, but you are going to have the same issue just under the depth of the broadfork, wherexas if it is the anaerobic condition, you. Have a whole other set of tools to attack the issue with.

[@carbrock.2854]

@@idiocracy10 The anaerobic condition is not likely to take over the entire rootzone if you broadfork, since the water will be able to work deeper into the ground.

[@idiocracy10]

@@carbrock.2854 if it is anaerobic condition rather than psi, then you could conceivably get roots thru the impaction layer if you could do minimal broadforking for drainage, or run a keyline plow thru with aerobic microbial tea/extract innoculation to flocculate the clay layer. The broadfork is going to give you a growing horizon, to the depth of the forks, but if you do not penetrate the water barrier layer, or develop a zone for biology to flourish, which will do that work for you, you are still limited to the 12 or 16 inches of the broadfork. while that is fine, as far as it goes, it would be nice to actually fix the soil as deep as it goes, and gain the benefits of that.

[@HippocratesGarden]

Yes, correct. "No-Till" is but one tool, and a great tool, but whether it is Broadfork, Tillage, Keyline.. not using another available tool, at least once (but not a habit), is just being black and white dogma.

[@ellenblumhardt3145]

Dogma should stay in theology, not biology.

[@LauraTeAhoWhite]

Soil differs from location to location, which is why I personally never follow a single gardening method. If the soil is hard and compacted like concrete, then give it a till and dress with organic matter (repeat until the soil is loose enough.) The microbes will come back, it doesn't hurt the soil and you will reap better harvests. When you are happy with the consistency of the soil and you look after it, you'll find that you won't need to till as much. Eventually, you won't need to till at all. Be flexible.

[@ishtzavah]

Really great to see. This is why some farmers use a deep tine to break up the compacted soil, it runs about 2 feet deep and cracks up that clay/ compact ground but does little to the surface layer. I have a similar issue with clay/rocky soil here in Australia, just don't get the rainfall you do, so I compost cow manure from the cattle yards, its already mixed with hay/ straw. I am trying some raised garden beds where I composted directly in the raised bed, and have now planted in there. Will still need to see how it goes. Bloody possum ate most of my beans!!

[@davidthegood]

Just watch out for aminopyralids in that manure and hay. It'll wreck you.

[@ishtzavah]

@@davidthegood To protect your garden from pyridine herbicide damage: only use aerobically composted manures on gardens. Aerobic composting requires weekly turning or stirring to ensure the composting process is carried out by microbes that require oxygen. Breakdown of the herbicide will be very slow in compost heaps that are not aerated.