Does Playing Fast Suck?

[@hervegrillat3624]

Playing fast is a tool. If it is your only tool, then it can become boring very fast.

[@Mark-db1ok]

Very well said

[@benjaminlemoine11]

Definitely depends on the interpretation, lots of music uses quick playing as maybe a type of feeling they're trying to convey, be it tension, anxiety, or even sometimes serenity. Once again, depends on the interpretation

[@dogmosatchmo]

Also, if it's your only tool, chances are, you are also a tool.

[@dogmosatchmo]

​@@benjaminlemoine11Reread the comment. If it's your ONLY tool. We don't need a defense argument about fast playing in general. You entirely missed the point...

[@doctorpatient519]

@@dogmosatchmo hence, the band's name

[@bungalo50]

Saying you find these boring is perfectly fine but saying those guys suck is very egregious

[@foljs5858]

Well, musically, they suck.

[@lolr4v82S]

@foljs5858 musically, they are complex. Big difference

[@bungalo50]

@@foljs5858 See now, I think I get what you're saying, like in my mind, Nirvana is much better music than all of these. However that's the subjective part of music and thank god for it or else we'd all be listening to some "standard noise"

[@sciencedaemon]

Nah, they aren't being musical (enough). It is all technique over musical expression. Very mechanical.

[@bungalo50]

@@sciencedaemon how many musical is musical enough? that line is different for every human on earth

[@duncanmcneill7088]

Play some fast and some slow. Play some loud and some quiet. Play some high and some low. Dynamics are everything.

[@bennymountain1]

No, play as fast and loud as possible. Be Archspire 🤣

[@lez0n]

💯🤘

[@superrrnova1986]

I'm sure I remember Henson saying what makes a great guitar solo are solos that people sing along to. I wouldn't be able to sing his music. Imagine trying to sing the opening of playing god haha. I've never tried a natural harmonic before with my voice.

[@Grovonator]

Don't forget to not play sometimes.

[@sheep4483]

@@superrrnova1986 I can sing it perfectly man maybe you just suck at singing

[@BassByTheBay]

The two things - showing off and being musical - aren't mutually exclusive. But it's a moot point because of the extreme subjectivity of evaluating art. The silly things is to argue that a bass is only "meant for" a certain type of playing. That's like arguing that painters should only employ realism or dancers should only dance ballet. An artist is free to make the art they want. The great thing about art is that you don't have to experience it if you don't want to.

[@sciencedaemon]

Who says who is an artist becomes the question then. You have just taken it to another place where evaluation is required.

[@BassByTheBay]

@@sciencedaemon Well, you're the one taking it to another place 😊, but it's clear that it's an artist who says they're an artist. There's a difference between evaluating what a thing _is_ and evaluating the _quality_ of a thing. Evaluation is required with _any_ assessment, but it doesn't change the fact that art is there for you to enjoy or not. No one is forcing anyone to experience art, much less assess it, much less define who is/isn't an artist. Generally, the people who complain about things like what an instrument should/shouldn't play are less interested in enjoying art than they are in imposing their view of the world on others.

[@sciencedaemon]

@@BassByTheBay yeah, a place of intelligence over knee-jerk reactions.

[@BassByTheBay]

@@sciencedaemon Based on the glibness of your remarks, you seem like the one with knee-jerk reactions.

[@sciencedaemon]

@@BassByTheBay it's called honesty, you should try it.

[@anta40]

Playing fast and being melodic (driving the song) is very fine on my book. One of the examples is Geddy Lee. Playing fast for the sake of technique itself is indeed boring.

[@honorificabilitudinitatibu7378]

Agreed

[@billsny9243]

SRV too. Stevie was a bad mf

[@maxhocks2006]

Playing fast and technical is like sprinkles. Great in small doses or as a small part of something else. But really unsatisfying on its own. If you have sprinkles on top of your ice cream or cupcake it’s amazing. But nobody wants to eat a cup of sprinkles. Fast technical stuff is a great addition to a solid song. But it’s not a replacement for a solid song.

[@Aaron-Qman]

I agree!! Well said.

[@Krystalmyth]

This exactly.

[@BrunodeSouzaLino]

"I am impressed by technique, but technique doesn't move me." - Gavin Harrison.

[@LeeJoRo]

Perfect

[@stuminnis4050]

This is my view in a nutshell. I usually say it something like, virtuosity can be amazing, but virtuosity alone is only interesting for a few minutes.

[@Teleolution]

Agreed. And it would be a _very_ weak argument to say that Gavin Harrison is jealous of fast players. =D

[@kellyg2826]

Technique it’s not necessarily equate to playing fast. Look at a player like Nick Campbell. His technique moves me in the way he applies it to laying down such an infectious groove with such tasteful dynamic fills. Mutes, accents, slides, duration, ability to play all over the fretboard. That’s all technique to me.

[@BrunodeSouzaLino]

@@kellyg2826 The point of contention here is when your music is a mere vehicle for you to showcase your technical proficiency. Many modern players do music like they're painting by numbers with some following the exact recipe. A good example of that happened in a soloing contest some years ago. After looking at a few entries, you could accurately predict how the solo would go since all of them had the same stuff and most players even had the same guitar tone as well.

[@TheFlowNetwork]

The lead guitarist in my band was great at playing fast solos with lots of notes. We were recording a song once and I told him I wanted a solo with fewer notes....long notes, not speed. So he picked one note and bent up to it....then played an entire 8 bar melodic solo just bending up to that one note... until the very last note where he finally resolved on a second note. It became my favorite solo he ever recorded. Pure feeling.

[@NBJmobile]

Is that song with that solo available anywhere

[@mightandlightvfx7157]

​@@NBJmobilestill no answer? 😂

[@mp9228]

Playing fast is technically impressive, but for me becomes aurally uninteresting very quickly. Most of these can be stripped away to a very average performance as you remove simple things like percussive fills and aggressive strumming. Like you said this has become prevalent in solo performances where players are trying to cover multiple pieces of the band and I think they can sound quite good. Playing fast can make mundane lines sound better than they are, but I think it still needs to have a rhythmically interesting flow. Running scales in full 32nd notes is the worst offense and I think some people associate all fast playing with this.

[@itsratso.]

i lived through the malmsteen years. barely.

[@c.conga11]

Jealous because you can't play like them

[@itsratso.]

@@c.conga11 right 🙄

[@saturnsabyss]

The different instruments point is it for me. I couldn't put it into words when I was younger, but before I was a musician and just a fan of music, the one thing I never liked about these soloists is that I think their compositions would be more enjoyable with different parts written and intended for a small ensemble, a "proper song" to oversimplify what I'm trying to say. Drums, bass, and either keyboard or second guitar with maybe vocals. Spread the rhythms and melodies across different instruments, trust your band members and keep your guitar parts as simple/complex as the rest. They're very impressive musicians and skilled composers, there are certain applications for this type of playing, particularly on KZbin, and there's a big following for this type of thing so I get the appeal, but that's my only critique for my taste.

[@Muhammad-HarDick]

For me technical is ok. But if everything is technical then nothing really is technical like the song needs its climax and sometimes when most part of the song are so technical it lacks that.

[@RickyHarline]

I just wanted to chime in and say I have only gotten shredding stuck in my head one time ever. That song? Elevated by Charles Berthoud I have never seen someone shred as musically as yourself. It's incredible. Keep it up, man, and thank you for the great commentary in this video. I'm a beginner bassist (inspired to get into it by you and Davie) and I would love to hear more of your thoughts on music like this. Great video idea.

[@derpderpin1568]

I've gotten like a dozen Polyphia songs stuck in my head. People that think their music is just 'shredding' are worthlessly stupid.

[@thekaratecowboymusic]

Playing fast is the same as playing slow. It's a choice, a preference and a way to express oneself. The implication that one is better than the other is ridiculous. It is insecurity that drives people to to validate themselves by pushing their limitations on others. I NEVER hear or read guitar players telling people they're too slow.

[@Manley156]

2:00 but he literally does always... its kind of his style and he owns and wears his ego proudly. Ego death was the most ironic thing i've ever heard/seen. Technically impressive, but not my cup of joe

[@splatterbabble]

I've spent years back in the '90s playing bass for hardcore and powerviolence bands and at that time in those genre it was more important to play fast than to play with any level of accuracy. Once I figured out how to do a finger gallop at 160bpm, we wrote songs around that chug.

[@tekglitch4484]

I'm new to bass (Started in the new year). I've been listening to a loooot of music since picking up the instrument. My favourite bassist is Tomohito Aoki. Japanese bass player who did tonne's of session work and played with loads of bands. You could say he was the Japanese Marcus Miller. He was a phenomenal player, finger style, fretless, slap. He drives the song, so musical and so technical with his basslines. He is what I consider a pure bass player. An absolute technician who has the groove in his fingers. Listen to his work with DIMENSION, Four of a Kind, Toshiki Kadomatsu. I can appreciate the technical aspects of new players and the virtuoso playing, takes a lot of skill and practice, its great for demonstrations, but I never find myself moving my shoulders to the music. I've listened to a new track today called E.G Blues by Mezzoforte. It's been on repeat because its so damn funky!

[@timorean320]

Speed for speeds sake means nothing. If it doesnt have a groove, and make musical sense, its just a lot of notes in a short time.

[@jea783]

”Music is the space between the notes.. Some lack of silence here .....

[@derpderpin1568]

Really? I can hear the silence between every note. It's incredibly deep and the melody has a ton of emotion in it.

[@jea783]

@@derpderpin1568 At 2:49 This is what i mean .

[@stephenknox2346]

Declarative statements about what music is are dumb. See what I did there?

[@greevar]

I think the problem lies within those who make everything they do about playing the most technically difficult and fastest performances. That's really one-dimensional. There is just as much value in using fewer notes, but doing each of them more expressively. Music is intended to stir emotion in the listener. If it's not doing that with lots of notes, then it's going to be boring. If you can do lots of notes in an expressive way, that will be more interesting. I just don't think playing fast and technical for its own sake will be compelling for very long. Edit: I guess Charles agrees with me.

[@derpderpin1568]

Which is not at all what Polyphia does. Their music is extremely emotional and melodic.

[@JVMC_ZR1]

These are probably some of the worst examples of "playing fast sucks" compared to the aimless shredders of the 80's. As much as I like watching these guys in awe, I'm not going to listen to their music in the car. I saw a duet of a Violin and Cello playing "Playing God" which was amazing. It really puts into perspective what's going on in the guitar.

[@Mr-qt4xr]

The biggest cheers I got from performing were always the faster guitar solos. People just love it when you rip some pentatonic triplets halfway through a song, especially when its clean , well practised and short and sweet and sounds just like the original solo. I think fast virtuostic playing is like a ''backflip''. Its super impressive when you do it a couple of times during a performance, but it has diminishing returns(and it depends on the crowd and what genre you're playing too). I think its a very powerful dynamic in music that shouldn't be underestimated.

[@almosthonest42]

What's lost in conversations around this stuff...is that these talented guys are pushing their skill for their own enjoyment,not to be a pop/rock star. it isn't meant as music for people in the middle. Like body builders are admired by other body builders...so is guitar/bass/drum techniques that are "extreme" its boring...to me,isn't an argument, its ok to hate it,but it's easy to just not watch. I personally find it all dull,and uninteresting. But im into lyrics and story so my subjective view doesn't mean I'm right. Personally I'd rather Caged and camp fire sing along with mates than slap percussion acoustic or extreme shred,as it does start to sound silly. But in the same breath,being good at something doesn't equate to being free from criticism

[@sircaballero]

I think it’s weird even to hate such techniques. Certainly the music created by them can be dull or not your jam, but hating techniques is like hating the concept of screwdrivers. It’s merely a tool. Some things built with them are ugly or boring, others are stunning. You’re right that people should like what they like though. The great thing about music is there are as many ways to play it as there are people to play it

[@abaranihei2608]

thats why tehy record it

[@tompreston7580]

Totally agree, tbh the thing that sticks out to me about you and other virtuosic musicians I look up to is the ability to use those chops in a super musical way, something I’m constantly working to figure out and hopefully convey in the solo bass album I’m currently working on

[@tabalitigi]

if a person only focuses on the fast playing and misses the full composition, i can see how they're "getting bored"...when the fast playing is meant to sit in a larger composition, focusing on a single instrument is a poor perspective from which to approach the composition

[@Fabien-e1u]

I agree with the ‘toolbox argument.’ However, in most of the case, the problem isn’t playing fast; it’s playing on one instrument what would benefit from being played by several

[@elementallobsterx]

There’s nothing better than playing smooth and melodic before throwing in a lightning fast sprint of notes during an emotional climax or modulation.

[@saxwastaken]

It's really down to how you play fast. There's some guitarists that you can tell play fast just for the sake of playing fast, while there's others that play fast while also being very musical. Then there's some that are musical but too insistent on playing fast, which makes it sound more like the song was meant to be slower and they just want to show off. Polyphia in my opinion is a VERY good example of being fast/technical and also very musical.

[@hyperplayability6290]

Hi Sacchan

[@saxwastaken]

@@hyperplayability6290 Hello kiwiboy

[@NickThunnda]

I could play guitar pretty fast in my 20s, but now in my 60s I am just happy to play bass slowly 😊

[@hesspet]

I'm 61 and I totally agree with you.

[@Fritz_Haarmann]

You just got one-upped in age. I now only trust the wiser man in the replies.

[@Platapi3]

Great video, Charles. All your comments really sum up my thoughts on fast playing. I think what makes the examples you listed and yourself so good is the musicality in your fast playing. You can all play great no matter what, bpm, and still make the music interesting and complex.Your music and Victor wootens really inspire me as a bass player, i really appreciate all the effort u put into your content. So, thank you for making such awesome music and inspiring so many people.

[@jokeassasin7733]

Tim Henson's change of speed and stops makes it quite interesting.

[@ejmazzi1499]

One key thing that the "play a guitar" army neglects is that the strings are so bloody close to each other on a guitar. This makes it hard to get certain sounds out of it or play certain ways, especially if you have big hands like I do.

[@rocketcello5354]

I'm primarily classically trained on cello (though am decent on percussion, double bass, and learning electric), and I don't understand how people say that playing fast is bad. So much incredible music is fast, as well as slow. One example I adore is the Bach Cello suite #1 in G. The contrast between the legato of the prelude and the spicato (like staccato but bouncier) of the Boureés is incredible, especially moving from the Sarabande to the 1st Boureé. Dig the videos man!

[@leothecuisinart]

I prefer virtuosity that serves the song to a song that serves a player's virtuosity if that makes any sense

[@MartijnHover]

There are lots of ignorant non-musicians who believe that "feel" and "technique" are mutually exclusive. It's not a new thing. Back in the day, around 1970, there were lots of folks who said that Alvin Lee, the guitarist of a band called Ten Years After (watch them in the Woodstock video) played without "feel" because he played fast, even though he mainly played pentatonic blues licks. By today's standards he was a musical simpleton (no insult intended). Personally, I can't play 12 notes per second, like some guitarists, but I can certainly aprreciate guitarists who can.

[@Powermad-bu4em]

Alvin Lee was the best guitarist at Woodstock.

[@MartijnHover]

@@Powermad-bu4em I wouldn't go as far as to say that. Santana played there too,. And Jimi Hendrix. 🙂

[@preston2636]

​@@MartijnHoverya hendrix is one of those guys you dont think sounds good when youre an intermediate guitarist, but when you get to the advanced level and try ro play his music, its just like srv or a dimebag solo, it might sound simple but all 3 require heavy dynamics, those guys music cant be played by playing the right note at the right time like 99 percent of guitar music, you have to play the right note at the right time, with the right volume and velocity. Those dynamics of having to not just hit the right note at the right time, but with the right touch basically makes it far harder. Its not like vibrato which can be emulated with some practice, dynamic playing its extremely difficult to emulate but its very rare. Buckethead is also good at dynamics. This kind of stuff separates the advanced from expert guitarists

[@preston2636]

​@@Powermad-bu4emtl;dr my other comment : hendrix underrated as a technical player.

[@elementallobsterx]

True. People just get insecure of fast playing whether they’re musicians or not.

[@Cantaste]

Please do Jason Beckers 'AIR'!!!

[@BassCampOfficial]

👏🏻🥉

[@RandysRides]

Speed means nothing if you can't be tasteful with it. IMO, one of the best guitar solos is Adrienne Vandenberg's solo in "Still Of The Night". Just a wicked melody with a quick shred to get to that last high E sustain. Very pleasing to the ears.

[@jonaschan]

I like the fast stuff and slow stuff. Totally agree with the comment saying there's no 'right' music. Although this gets challenged a lot, I personally believe that there's no 'right' and 'wrong' technique but rather techniques that work well or don't work and no 'right' way to learn an instrument. Pinky stuck out while playing? Doesn't mean the player cannot use their pinky to fret they can use it just as well and play just as well as someone who has it tucked in (or at least in my opinion). I'd also imagine when victor (or whoever invented) started double thumbing people told him it was the 'wrong' way to slap. Techniques that are 'wrong' but can articulate notes just as well are different and not unequal or inferior. Just my opinion😊

[@buddyfoster6698]

One of my favorite things that I feel like I got to sort of experience in real time was in a video where Tim Henson (who was already a virtuoso) was talking with Tosin from Animals as Leaders and asked him about something he was doing with his playing. Tosin is using his thumb to play and explains it to Tim. Next thing you know he’s using it all the time in songs. It was so cool to see this amazing guitarist who you think knows everything, had every tool mastered and his sound is what it is, like how EVH plays and sounds and how you know it’s him….but now Tim has learned something in front of all of us that he uses now in so many songs. Anyway, not really what your video was about but I just think it’s such a cool story.

[@marg0049]

I feel like Polyphia is actually pretty simple music once you notice that it's basically highly ornamented melodic lines over a simple pop chord progression.

[@xezmakorewarriah]

all music is simple if you remove the hard parts

[@marg0049]

@@xezmakorewarriah but some music has more hard parts to remove than others.

[@skippertheeyechild6621]

I am not in anyway a Polyphia fan, but what you have said doesn't really make a lot of sense to me. It's complicated, in order to simplify it, you need to strip it down.

[@BlackSailPass_GuitarCovers]

Exactly. The rhythm section is far from complex - just a basic 4/4 loop with some staccato notes and little variation.

[@gjw45]

It doesn't matter how hard or fast it is, it sounds like rubbish. Imagine going on a road trip listening to that rubbish.

[@LiliumCruorem]

Playing fast is dope if it sounds good. Polyphia is a good example of that in my opinion. I don’t like all of their songs. But the ones I do like, I like alot! I think playing fast is just like using power chords. If that’s all you are gonna do you better be the best at it or your stuff is just gonna get old fast for most people.

[@jamescendrowski4844]

Your playing is precise, clean, musical and emotional. Love all of it.

[@yogimarkmac]

It all comes down to 3 things: dynamics, dynamics, and dynamics. If I have something important to say, I'm not going to say it so fast that no one can understand it, but if I get excited and talk real fast for a couple moments, then it communicates more emotion.

[@LucasSantos-yh1mi]

Brother, thank you. No one talks about that enough. That's one of the most important things for a musician.

[@gjw45]

Yep....and melody helps as well.

[@dylanphelan3010]

melody is almost always king

[@tjohns6552]

Great line from Jim Hall where he was asked in an interview about his slow style technique, and his was response “that’s just as fast as I can play.” He is a great example of great slow and thoughtful playing

[@FINBoggit]

Playing is about having fun and if others enjoys your play, it's just a bonus.

[@derpderpin1568]

People saying Polyphia isn't musical are the dumbest people walking the earth. They are literally all musical feel and emotion.

[@MatthewMabborang]

In general, music connects everyone regardless the technique at all levels. Whether you play it simple, complex, easy, medium, hard, advanced, pro, fast, slow, adding some sugar-spices of harmonies, effects, percussions, and everything else in between, and some who goes deeper in creating a beautiful sound (or an original sound and style) like in the case of Tim Henson (Polyphia), Victor Wooten, Marcin, Ichika Nito, and even you Charles makes us appreciate and love music even more! As a guy who loves playing music (guitar, piano, bass and drums), I sincerely understand how difficult it is to create a beautiful music that touches the hearts of the beautiful people no matter what genre, style or theme it may be. I really do appreciate and respect you all musicians out there and sending some love! Cheers! :)

[@Mintey.0]

Playing fast and technical is amazing to listen to and very impressive but it’s hard to not appreciate blues on guitar or slow jazzy playing

[@sciencedaemon]

Not really. It tends to impress those with a poor grasp of music. Usually younger people that have a limited musical palate. It is like thinking fast food is better than a nice home cooked meal. Anybody can get fast food. A good home meal takes time and effort and keeps you healthier.

[@AshleyBeby]

@@sciencedaemon I can't tell if you're insulting blues and jazz or fast and technical stuff like Tim Henson does

[@Mintey.0]

@@AshleyBeby lol I couldn’t either

[@Himmelsstier]

​@@Mintey.0He's obviously talking about Ichika Nito/Tim Henson types.

[@AshleyBeby]

@@Himmelsstier I'd believe you but this is also what older people said about Jazz like how it was only likeable by "young hippies with poor taste" etc

[@Necropheliac]

In the context of solo playing busy bass lines can sound incredibly cool, but in a studio recording, in a mix, the same line can also just not work. It depends on a lot of factors, in fact too many factors to make general rules or statements. It’s such a difficult thing to describe but suffice it to say that once the entire band is layered on the mix, and you add all this compression to everything, the entire groove can be lost because the bass notes get muddied up and become less perceptible.

[@marg0049]

I appreciate that Charles is able to read comments he disagrees with without using a sarcastic "strawman voice".

[@elementallobsterx]

Yeah it’s cool I guess to hear these comments read carefully, but most people complaining about this stuff are bots.

[@terdroblade]

The issue is that this music isn't for people that don't understand (Polyphia managed to break this barrier in part because of the easy catchy chord progressions, hiphop sound etc) it because they can't comprehend what is going on. It's just a mess of sounds and tones because their brains aren't used to deciphering what is going on. A random person wouldnt know what to do with a very easy physics equation, while someone that studied it would see whats going on in a heartbeat. The rando can't apriciate the beauty of the equation, while do student can. Ofc that music is much more common in most peoples lives so it IS easier to start breaking that barrier even for non-musicians, but it's still there for the vast majority of the population. Its the reason why "professionals react" videos became popular, it lets you appreciate something fully when explained by an expert. On the other hand, when musicians that CAN tell whats going on say its "masturbating", it's nothing but pure jealousy.

[@johnryal]

Yep

[@derpderpin1568]

Polyphia broke that barrier because their music has a ton of melody and feel to it. Insane that haters try to deny it.

[@gehadakash3829]

You're really mature and i love your videos, finally someone doing tim justice, he's my guitar hero but it seems like everyone thinks he's playing fast without a feel , i guess they didn't give it a chance 😂

[@Panyc333]

Now if we could only get a colaberation of Charles on bass, Ichika & Marcin on guitar, el Estepario Siberiano on drums, and Anomalie on keyboard produced and mixed by Tim Henson.

[@DemonRax47]

I came up with the concept of "resolution" a while ago. As you listen and play "faster" music, you understand it more and can follow the music. For those who didn't improve their "resolution" will not be able (physically) to grasp it, for them it will just be a mess of notes, it's really hard to figure it out. So it's just a matter of habit, skills and practice. Doesn't make slower or faster music better.

[@DockMephisto]

Hej!, would you consider the idea of making a video about 'soloing' on a base on the low octaves instead of the high ones? Thanks for all of the amazing content, here and on your channel!

[@lrvogt1257]

Speed doesn't suck but, like salt, a little goes a long way. It's kind of like swearing. It can be effective occasionally but too much is banal and tedious. Or like humor. Funny is whatever make you laugh and that's all there is to it. If your audience is paying to see you shred... shred! If they want to be moved by interesting music, use it sparingly. Great players don't rely on speed all the time but can use it to great effect. For me too much metal is just meaningless flurries of notes with no point other than speed. In some pieces that could be exactly what's needed. Usually not. Tina S has millions of views but she wasn't playing for a live audience, she was a kid demonstrating her effortless technique. Each piece is spectacular but few people would want to hear an entire concert of just that. One piece is Malmsteen's "Arpeggios from Hell" which is basically an fingering exercise.

[@JoeStuffzAlt]

The funny thing is that people will say things like "Herman Li can only play fast", but if you catch his streams, he does ballads.

[@stevencooper3202]

The 3rd one, guitar playing was great. The crappy everyday hiphop drum loop they used for the beat is the bad thing.

[@wkenney]

It's easy to forget that , when Wooten first got wider attention with the Flecktones 'Sinister Minister", it was musical and innovative and nobody knew what he was doing...

[@tsardean9192]

Wanted to note at 6:00 (ish) when you say that bass can't really do as well as other instruments, this is only true of electric bass. Upright bass (which "bass guitar") derived from can sustain and makes up for a lot of the weaknesses of electric.

[@donaldbest7621]

I heard an interview with winton Marsalis, and “sweets Edison”(I think I have the name right). They talked about playing over blues progression, and then played. Marsalis dazzled, mmany cool hip licks, all perfectly played. Harry did maybe three notes, and bent them in a VERY cool way. Marsalis was floored and asked him how he got that sound with the valve set up….harry had a way of saying so much with a minimal amount of notes.

[@benjaminnewell5214]

people hate the idea that there is such a thing good fast playing and bad fast playing

[@elahem6940]

Polyphia, Ichika, and Marcin are interesting to watch in the same way that it's cool to see someone really great at a sport do something crazy. But I've never gone back to just listen to any of their music on its own the way that I do with Coltrane. There is a fire and intensity to Coltrane that just isnt there with the newest generation of TikTok guitarists

[@rationalmuscle]

Keep smashing the rules, Charles.

[@nightflare27]

4:06 Bruh, that song would be completely different with a guitar. Also, in jazz, and probably many other genres, basses can do a lot more than play a boring supporting line. Who the heck even decides what an instrument was "meant to do"?

[@WmRob]

As a former touring lead player now retired, I remember my first music festival and listening to three other lead players shredding to the point that it detracted from the song. When I met an old jazz guy backstage and asked him what he thought about shredding he said “most songs are 3 1/2 minutes, most gigs are about an hour. You gotta pace yourself, son. Why play 1,000 notes when 25 will suffice?”

[@mikenighbor4524]

I play everything on a classical with nylon strings . Loved that bassist expanding his art. Marcin did things i never thought of. Bought my classical and now i discover fingerstyle. Guess i have to head on down to the guitar shop

[@jamesonrichards5105]

I have the approach of looking at a quick sequence of notes as providing a different texture, not a worse one but different. Similar to using a longer word instead of a short/simple word in a sentence to convey a different feeling. It’s very easy to over do it of course but some phrases or textures wouldn’t be “better” with less notes.

[@buddhafyre]

"OK, you've shown me you can play all the notes....but can you play the song?" Miles Davis

[@theheck5176]

Let it flow. Stay in - with or without, share the best.

[@stevehyperdriver]

Having been looking for a bass player I have found that solo technical ability does not necessarily translate to a band situation. The player I now have heard one of the tracks and said “that just needs to be kept simple”. He gets it. There’s plenty of opportunity for him to shine, it’s just that some songs need one note

[@lez0n]

Good artists know when to use a tool and when not to. Playing “fast and technical” has its place, but alone and without context is meaningless. You need contrast in art.

[@drdyna]

I remember a Victor Wooten video a couple of years back when he was discussing technical ability and feel. He gave two examples that were like "Here's technical ability" *plays a bunch of stuff that sounds like Henson*" and then goes "Now, here's what it sounds like when I make it groove." and it was 10000% better.

[@NotASpy-gw2qv]

I would love to see a full lesson of The Lesson or maybe The Vision

[@AriNetoBR]

When we listen and decide to listen again to appreciate.. it's something totally different when we listen and we want to see to understand... And I think this is the main issue... it's possible to play in a way that it's nice to be seen, practicing and training a lot, but probably it's even hard to play something that people just want to be listening to and have a special moment in their lives, taking something with them.. when we listen to Bach, Mozart or Chopin, our first though, probably, wouldn't be seeing somebody playing their music...

[@billsny9243]

What you do to show your skill when someone asks is say "let me warm up first" then shred as fast and technical as you can. Then go into something more musical

[@adamodimattia]

It sounds good sometimes, if it's not fast just for the sake of it, but it suits the mood of the phrase and whole solo.

[@diegofloor]

Another thing to consider is that musicians are also music listeners. Sometimes people create things meant to be enjoyed by people on the same field. Nothing wrong with that, but it can be alienating.

[@giustinoscalise3177]

I also believe that one's mood or current obsessions can obstruct one's judgement. One day you may hear a song you didn't think you really cared for and suddenly think it's great.

[@tomm5023]

Context is everything. I’ve seen some covers by Marcin I absolutely adored, others I thought he was destroying the song’s spirit. I find overplaying a more suitable term for what I see from virtuosos.

[@TheDelahunt]

I think playing fast can be interesting and also a good challenge for yourself but speed and virtuosity are far from the only interesting aspects of music. On second thought. I would love to see a collaboration between Charles, Ichika, Marcin and Jacob Collier. The resulting music would be amazingly beautiful and moving while also being an absolute vibe.

[@jamesmacleod671]

I always liked a bit of both, slow/medium carchy bass playing with maybe a fast or upfront solo 3/4 into the song. Level 42 did it in their early stuff, e.g. Hot Water, people, living it up (live) true believers etc. For me the song as well as the musicianship structuring the song without playing a zillion notes a nano second (unless you are thrash metal )was just as important.

[@marcblum5348]

Random dude on the internet: "This guy can only play fast and has no emotion at all." Translation: "I can't play fast."

[@bassmaiasa1312]

But sometimes it does just plain suck. You can hear Listz's 'La Campanella' at 140 bpm and it will sound fast, pyrotechnically amazing, and musically beautiful. If someone pushes it to 180 just to show off because they think the audience are idiots, it's too fast and it sucks.

[@mesadrums375]

The contortionist has some of my favourite guitar solos and they’re super simple but the feeling Cam puts into makes it special

[@MrDaneBrammage]

Playing fast can suck. If you take something that sucks when played slowly and speed it up, it will usually just suck faster. The bass does have a pretty necessary role within a band, which is extremely hard to fill while also shredding. That's why a guy like Victor Wooten sometimes has a second bass player to fill the traditional bass role while he's soloing. There's also an issue of audience sophistication, for want of a better word. John Coltrane sometimes sounds like just a bunch of fast finger-twiddling to me because I don't understand what he's doing. I can't even hear the notes. But that's on me, not him.

[@kalashio]

“Welcome my fellow bassists” Me, an 8 string player: mhm am besist :3

[@Alex-ns6hj]

Ik this might be off topic a bit, but whenever I’m playing bass I hear unwanted noise from strings even if I don’t touch them. How in the world will I play faster bass lines like “forget me nots” without having to mute unused string? When I see you or other pro bassists I don’t see them muting every note, or am I missing something?

[@ethereal7328]

Fast or slow the importance is if there is a music idea behind(you know if you can hear how cohesive ecc) it’s fine. Who says fast is better or worse and who says slow if better or worse.

[@darthstigater6642]

I play bass and guitar and playing fast is fun and intense. I think the point here is that the songs that endure over time are not doing so because they are fast. Most people can't understand fast music because they are not used to listening to it and they can't pick up the melody if it's played too fast. As musicians we are used to listening to a lot more than normies and we forget that. "Wise men don't know how it feels to be thick as a brick" ~ Jethro Tull.

[@grogueQ]

I think a good rule of thumb, ( no pun intended,) is listening to a composition without watching the performance. If you find the melody or rhythm enticing without being impressed by the show, I think that's a good way to tell. I love Victor Wooten, but in this case I'm not sure if I was more impressed by the composition or just the difficulty level.

[@chrishexx3360]

Subjective personal preferences are things that cannot be imposed on others. You can't feel what others feel when they hear pieces of music so you cannot tell someone that their own personal enjoyment is wrong. As long as the musician maintains a good chord progression and overall melody throughout a song then it's all good, let them showcase their skills.

[@johnamcclintock1]

A lot of jealousy drives these comments. You don't have to like it but to dismiss it with stupid reasons that barely conceal the jealousy just makes you sound stupid.

[@johnterpack3940]

That's pure BS. I don't even play, so how could I be jealous?

[@johnamcclintock1]

@johnterpack3940 did I single your comment out? Did I say every comment was motivated by jealousy? Do you even understand the most basic of English? I honestly can't believe people so bereft of intelligence walk amongst us.

[@Finvaara]

I feel conflicted, because I love your work and those other artists that you showed as well, but then there's a notorious fast artist from an older generation who has lots of technique, but it really feels like there's no soul in his music when I've listened to any of his songs. What's your take on Michael Angelo Batio?

[@SongySan]

"Playing God" is an amazing song. I can see where Tim's technical skills on the song could be dismissed as wankery, but IMO his playing does great service to the song.

[@SaintKines]

Agreed. In fact I would use it as exhibit A as evidence that they aren't just master bating with instruments.

[@walterruiz2130]

Ah, the good ol' days when ppl just said: "This is not my cup of tea" instead of being mean and ignorant.

[@carlinkersch5810]

When did people ever do that at any time in the history of people?

[@Wizz15]

@@carlinkersch5810 The ‘music police’ has always been around indeed. Pretty sure you could get unalived for listening to the ‘devils music’ at various points in time. Although mostly they just give snarky remarks from the sideline nowadays.

[@oswinhull4203]

Pretty sure that time never existed

[@walterruiz2130]

@oswinhull4203 must be hard being 14 and thinking u know things

[@ibnfunk]

Those good ol' days are yet to exist if they ever will

[@kaushalsuvarna5156]

Also no one seems to mention that the tone of the individual notes suffers when playing fast

[@mushroomlasers7470]

That Victor Wooten one is sick!!!!

[@zoeherriot]

Victor is very musical though. Some of these dudes are just fast for the sake of it.

[@Traumglanz]

"It's not the notes you play, it's the notes you don't play.", Miles Davis one said. And yet people like Victor Wooten show, that the notes he plays are all the right ones even when he plays fast and all the notes he doesn't play are exactly the right choice as well. When playing fast it's just harder to only play the right notes.

[@ophilianecr]

Great video!! Something has to be said about the sound of soul in what a musician plays when they improv and when they play something they've practiced a thousand times. How often have we seen metal bands perform a phoned in set, or heard them say they grew to hate a hit, but its performed "correctly"?? At some point, even the most basic riff gets boring when the soul is lost. Just as the fast playing can absolutely have high technical performance with energy and soul, because it feels right for the style. We can have both because THE PLAYERS mindset matters in performance!!

[@dylanphelan3010]

some people have difficulty expressing emotion on an instrument. They just want to play stuff they find to be cool and fun to play under their fingers, which is fine in my opinion.

[@ophilianecr]

@dylanphelan3010 sure, and that's fine, but then the music it's emotionless and it can be heard when it's nothing but a mechanical execution of sound

[@christianrajkai6917]

Guess I'll address the elephant in the room (disappointed he didn’t): Music is essentially communication, functioning on multiple levels with varying depths. Musical absorption is an intelligence that can be learned; you're not born with it (with a few exceptions). Most people with negative attitudes toward fast, complex music-like the examples in the video-aren't able to communicate on that level. They simply can't grasp the performance. If a Clapton solo grabs you more than an Allan Holdsworth solo, it only means you're not musically equipped to digest complex harmonies delivered at high speeds. That’s fine; you’re likely skilled at other things. So, let's call it what it is-if you can't get into complicated or fast music, you're simply not trained or capable of absorbing it. There, I said it. Now shut up and play your guitar.

[@zubat0532]

Being able to play fast does make you a better musician in my opinion short answer is because you have more things to say with it than without it, it's like a new word you learn in a language (It doesn't make you a better person or for better music) Speed is something that adds up to your musicianship in terms of technique and your language, if you have a fast lick and you feel like there's a part of a song in which it would fit, then it's great, because you have that thing to say, speed is one tool that expands your musical vocabulary, just like feel, it allows you to express more specific feelings. people have to stop these mean comments, it's okay to not like a piece of content, performance or art, but please use respectful words and start your sentences with "I" statements because we live in a subjective world

[@fredericjaquet3729]

A criticism can be positive or negative; it can also be constructive or destructive; with humility to help progress or with pride to belittle. We must not let ourselves be touched by destructive or demeaning criticism. Saying "I don't like it" is acceptable; saying "what you're doing sucks" is unacceptable if we don't give advice on how to progress. Humility, kindness, encouragement and love for one's neighbor: whether in any field, are the key words of propriety and the signs of a well-mannered person.

[@BrunodeSouzaLino]

There's no such thing as constructive criticism, since it's up to the recipient to determine how criticism is received. More times than not, people confuse constructive criticism with praise.

[@leastselfawarepotassium]

“what you’re doing sucks” is still unacceptable if you give advice on how to progress.

[@BrunodeSouzaLino]

@@leastselfawarepotassium Then it's up to you to determine how useful the advice afterwards is instead of just stopping at the part you didn't like and disregarding everything. You don't get to choose how good your audience's communication skills are and demanding such thing from them because you're easily offended is absurd.

[@FrankGrauStudio]

I don’t know if it’s just the samples you chose to feature, but there seems to be a commonality among those players that can get old (for my personal taste) quickly. I’m not suggesting that what they’re playing is uninteresting in any way. But there’s a certain style or feel to many of those players which, if you’re not into that style, it can indeed get boring. HOWEVER, this can be said of ANY style of music, fast, slow, or anything in between. The bottom line is that the negative comments may have more to do with the commenter’s preference of music than it does with the players themselves. I personally enjoy seeing someone with exceptional talent play, and I can recognize and appreciate their skill even IF I don’t care for their music. I think failing to at least acknowledge the skill of technically proficient players (even where one doesn’t like the music) stems from a bit of envy or pride.