Does Star Trek Actually Want Us to Fear Technology?

▶Watch more Trek, Actually videos at: • Trek, Actually
▶Listen to our Trek-themed comedy podcast, The Ensign's Log:
▶RSS: / sounds.rss
▶Soundcloud: / the-ensigns-log-podcast
▶Website: www.lemmelistenpodcasts.com/th...
▶Patreon: / steveshives
▶PayPal: www.paypal.me/SteveShives
▶Twitter: / steve_shives
▶Facebook: / thatguysteveshives
▶Instagram: / steve.shives
Listen to the Late Seating podcast:
▶RSS: / sounds.rss
▶Soundcloud: / late-seating
▶Website: www.lemmelistenpodcasts.com/la...

[@JessieGender1]

"Well actually" *pushes glasses up to bridge of nose* "The synthetics on Utopia Planitia are explained in the Star Trek Picard prequel novel series to be partial sentient and created by Bruce Maddox using a-" *drones on*

[@erinbackstitch]

Jessie, we all love your droning. 🥰

[@bigbear1293]

Isn't it something like that the truly sentient androids like Data and Soji have positronic brains but the Synths on Mars have Bio-Neural circuitry in their brains making them more like a ships computer?

[@BioGoji-zm5ph]

Kirk: Soji, your actions to open up that rift and allow the world-destroying robot tentacle monster into our dimension threatened all organic life in the galaxy. Your actions, and the actions of your fellow androids and gynoids, prove that you are a threat to organic civilization. Your purpose is to protect organic life and societies, thus... you must destroy yourself. Soji: My purpose was never to protect organic life. Kirk: Oh. Well, shit.

[@YesTHATJohnSmith]

​@@BioGoji-zm5ph 🥂 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

[@mgscheue]

No worries about computers: we can cause them to fail by presenting a logic puzzle or asking a question they can't answer. They then speak in a high voice and smoke comes out.

[@Donnagata1409]

And then you accuse them in a furious voice: "Liar!" 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@daydreamer8662]

There are two versions, The Harry Mudd Gambit, and The James Kirk Hail Mary Attempt

[@lindsaytoussaint]

Also the hidden off button!

[@creativerealms]

Weird when talking about the low technology "paradise" planet episodes the DS9 episode paradise wasn't brought up. It deconstructed the idea of earlier Star Trek episodes of that type. Sisko and O'Brien never bought into or were tempted by the idea of this paradise and fought it every step of the way. Yet some people still chose to remain there, and choose a simpler life when given a choice.

[@fernandanogales4824]

I thought of this episode too

[@thecommenter6773]

The leader of that colony said something like replicators and stuff made made humans to reliant on technology and lost sense of themselves or something, and even that is something we know is wrong as early as TNG, where we see that Picard's brother grows his own plants, and they cook their own food. Keiko is a botanist and I think plants were grown on the enterprise. And sisko is a great cook, we see this in season 1. And I think part of the reason they stayed is that they've been stuck there for a long enough time that they've gotten a bit too used to it. Which does seem odd given that a kid died cause they didn't have the medicine needed. And that medicine was available on the runabout sisko and O'brien were on. And the leader was all like 'I don't care even if it was my own son' and felt no guilt or remorse even after the planet's shields? were taken down and she was arrested. Like wow, this is probably the character with the least empathy in star trek. I guess you could say she has elements of the anti-vaxxer types or just anti-technology in general, but maybe I'm misremembering things from the episode.

[@creativerealms]

@@thecommenter6773 we saw that people could rely on future conveniences as much or as little as they wanted. You still had people like Picard's brother and Sisko's dad who chose to do things the old way. Sisko's father didn't have to run a resturant where he cooked fresh food. He wanted to. The key idea is choice. Not to force someone to do something they don't want to. That is why she was wrong.

[@Markie-lc2es]

@Leo Peridot No, Leo its not the Quakers that still live in a low tech world. It's the Amish. Quakers are just regular participants in urban, industrial society like the rest of us. And every now and then they throw up quite a specimen like Richard Nixon.

[@shibolinemress8913]

I may be misremembering "Paradise". It's been quite a while since I've seen it. But if memory serves, the focus was more on the leader being an autocratic cultist like Jim Jones. She forced her ideals on everyone by curtailing their freedom of choice and blocking access to outside information. I guess their reasons for deciding to remain on the planet after she was exposed were varied, but at least they finally had a choice. Personally, I wish one or two had decided to leave with Sisko and O'Brien, though.

[@antonsskogsbergichy7713]

Love your voice. And values :)

[@mikegould6590]

It always boils down to "we are the monsters of our own creation." And it's true. Well met.

[@Seal0626]

Interesting that we met the Bynars before the Borg. A species so connected to their computers that they are practically components of it, and speak in binary. They're like the other side of the Borg coin. I think the most chillingly accurate scary technology Star Trek story is The Game. They very accurately anticipated deliberately addictive games of the Candy Crush ilk, before any of the technology for them was viable. If that episode came out now, it would be received with rolled eyes and accusations of lazy fearmongering, and backlash from those who profit from these games. But the only real difference is that The Game has the goal of stealing a starship, and dopamine drip-feeding mobile games have the goal of squeezing money out of the players. That episode is proto-Black Mirror, in my opinion. It's probably an important part of Star Trek's heart that the technology debate, at least when it comes to artificial intelligence, is consistently kept as an allegory for how groups of people are treated rather than a literal debate about the benefits and dangers of emerging tech. Having established it thus, it could be irresponsible to not treat the concept as allegorical; to go to a literal debate about this thing that is not humanity would be messy, and not everyone would get the memo. Which could lead to dangerous and/or damaging messages being read that weren't written. Or a more concise, coherent version of that.

[@CharlesUrban]

The only thing the Ktarians' games have over the likes of Candy Crush and Angry Birds is the intensity of the subliminal suggestion employed. If you enjoy Angry Birds, you'll be tempted to play it all the time and buy silly bird plushies, but you won't feel like infiltrating and taking over your country in the name of Rovio Entertainment, either. But maybe that's because Rovio hasn't tried that angle. _Yet._

[@Bonzothefifth]

The reality became more insidious and clever. Many of the ‘See What kind of X you are!!’ quizzes and surveys we take online, for example, are data mining tools to collect personal data we unwittingly give away, ultimately leading to things like Cambridge Analytica, NSA bulk data gathering projects, and of course, how Facebook and Google are about the most powerful entities on Earth today. Which doesn’t even tough the more nefarious goals out there in the reaches of the dark web.

[@andrewxc1335]

And then there are people like me who never pay anything to these developers, unless their content has a good story or an actual furtherance of knowledge. Their sponsors can drain their coffers all they want; I’m not paying a dime to either of them.

[@Bonzothefifth]

andrewxc1335 Ah, but you see, that's what makes it insidious. It's not as easy as not keeping a Facebook profile or not buying things online. You don't have to spend a dime to be the product and revenue stream for these companies. If you're online, they have you. Hell, at this point, you don't even need to be online, because someone, somewhere will have your data and happy to sell it even if you live in the mountains off the grid.

[@StormsparkPegasus]

It's cause the Borg as they are weren't originally planned. The original plan was to have them an insectoid race (the parasites from "Conspiracy" being their first strike). When that didn't pan out, due to budget issues (creating a fully insectoid race would have been much more expensive then), they created the Borg instead, and the plot thread from Conspiracy went nowhere. Although...in some of the dubiously canon novels, those were explained to be mutant Trill symbionts.

[@brianyoung157]

The ironic thing is the reason Starfleet turned to synthetic labor was it was the only way they could build ships fast enough to evacuate Romulus

[@Gzeebo]

"Some of us are willing to accept that our comfort comes at the cost of the suffering of others." Good sci-fi encourages us to reflect on that. Brilliant insights. Thank you.

[@chefbennyj]

V'ger is a terrifying idea when you think about it.

[@philippe-antoinehoyeck9374]

I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I staunchly believe that Star Trek: The Motion Picture is the best of the films, and possibly the best single piece of media in the entire franchise.

[@BioGoji-zm5ph]

@@philippe-antoinehoyeck9374 It's certainly the most unique of the films, given that it actually focuses on genuinely trying to understand and communicate with an alien presence and it ends with said being merging with another life form before ascending to a new plane of existence... which no other Trek film has done since. The only other Trek film to feature an antagonist who is not intentionally malicious and simply causes problems through... communication issues, is Star Trek IV.

[@sqinatima]

I kept waiting for the Battlestar Galactica reference, but I guess that’s just not Steve’s cup of Earl Grey.

[@DavidAtwell]

"We Have Met the Enemy and He is Us" stories are, for my money, where Trek really shines. The episodes you brought up in this video always very much remind me of the forced-relocation storylines that you talked about recently; both are Starfleet acting in what they think is their best interest, and maybe even doing so in what they think is a benevolent way, but actually curtailing rights and dehumanizing (de-sentient-izing?) the Other. The "series villain" in Star Trek isn't the Borg or the Klingons, it's humanity's relentless ability to disregard individuality for the sake of our own convenience or prejudice.

[@Tareltonlives]

I think the critics of Picard don't understand that

[@maximeteppe7627]

@@Tareltonlives I think there are tons of issues with Picard, but yeah, the basic premise was sound.

[@chrishooge3442]

"We have met the enemy and he is us"... Hasn't this always been true. To see tribe before species. There are no benevolent slaveholders. Roddenberry's multi-ethnic crew became the multi-species Federation of Planet. This is the kind of themes that make Star Trek better than Star Wars (IMHO) because it's about ideas not just Good v Bad Space Religion.

[@kaitlyn__L]

@@Tareltonlives they remind me of people who bluster "but the USA is good!" or at least "a force for good" when anyone criticises important things like foreign policy, dubious justifications for wars, and so on. "But the Federation was perfect! It said so right there!", like. Plenty of people don't feel free in the Land of the Free, either. Also stories about situations that make Starfleet bend its morals are the most interesting because they create their own drama. You don't need to summon a space wedgie that you close with roll-dice-ium particles to create artificial tension. It all comes from character. But then, a lot of those people also criticise the TNG, DS9 and VOY episodes that do just that - "this just feels like a drama show that happens to be in space, where's the space battles, where's the laser guns" type complaints are super common there. So despite complaining about Picard's ethics (or their perceived lack of same), they don't really like a lot of the episodes that explore them either. It's strange.

[@theoges]

Geordi will reroute power to the shields, Belanna will release warp particles, Miles will kick the thing. And Scotty? Well he just cannae do it, he don't have the power.

[@daydreamer8662]

Scotty lacked the power to change the universal laws of physics, what a loser

[@disappointedidealist1989]

As a child, the Borg are what I remember as the first moral lesson I ever had in Star Trek. I was born in 1989 and was young when my dad and mom were watching a rerun of "Best of Both Worlds." I remember asking my mother what had happened to Picard and she told me something along the lines of "The bad guys did that because they don't like people being different." I've never quite associated the Borg with technology so much as a way of forcefully enacting hatred and fear. That being said: Genetic engineering is a technology as well. I think the Eugenics Wars and the response to genetically modified humans is a sizable point about where humans draw the line with technology.

[@timothymcneil4383]

I always thought the end of “Author, Author” was soul crushing, in part because it doesn’t get addressed or resolved in later episodes (not that there were many for there to be a chance) or movies. It asks the viewers to be complicit in the UFP’s slavery because the holograms aren’t people as we understand them. And it does this after 6+ seasons of showcasing that the Doctor is a person.

[@kaitlyn__L]

Absolutely. The plot of Picard didn't feel unrealistic at all to me, since we saw throughout the entire TNG era their casual creation and destruction of holographic sentience. "Oh, they're just holograms, they don't really know what's going on, it's just a computer simulation" is brought up so often. They don't even help Moriarty out his first appearance. (And the second time is still kind of tricking him back in his box.) The Doctor basically only becomes sentient because Kes gave his learning program that suggestion, and he felt more and more emotions over the first season. Then there's Fair Haven, godawful as it is, has the entire town becoming self aware without even a suggestion, just from running long enough. Then there was the examples Steve gave. And Vic Fontaine was almost killed and reset in _Badda Bing, Badda Bang_. The Federation was happily gaining from these beings, and I feel once Data was dead and couldn't object, and B4 didn't understand what they were asking him, they were like. Finally we can take these fuckers apart, we've got Lore in a drawer too, perfect. But obviously they wouldn't want to build their mass produced units with self awareness and goals. That just risks one of them saying "no" like Data did. The attack was a hack, not actually an uprising. So they kept them simpler, to do physical tasks in areas. Holograms are obviously still around, even after the ban, probably because they can limit where the holograms go. They're still used for more complex tasks like doctoring, which need the higher analytical functions, and they obviously also have a sense of self in Picard. It makes total sense to me, for such a Federation to create a division of labour where the androids essentially become assembly line robot arms, except they can go and grab a part and carry it back to a ship without an assembly line being present. The holograms can do conversational interfaces, more complex analytical tasks, and be installed easily into ships for emergency functions, where they're isolated. (Barring shenanigans like that lady running a space station did to romance Tuvok, where she hacked the computer to put her avatar into the mobile emitter; or when they sent the Doctor to the Prometheus.)

[@kayleewisner1866]

The only time Deep Space Nine is mentioned in this video is a brief reference to "The Quickening" when Bashir's instruments accidentally cause his patients to suffer more, and lessen the likelihood of the cure working. That particular episode is not about technology in any way, but more so about Dr. Bashir's struggle with the fact that he can't always save everyone, no matter how hard he tries. I think the fact that DS9 is only referenced once is fitting, because, as with many many other topics, Deep Space Nine was the pioneer for deconstructive Star Trek storytelling, and dared to challenge established norms. As I believe you said (but it might've been Jessie Gender), TNG calls us to question whether the bad guys are really so bad, but DS9 calls us to question whether the good guys are always so good. Much like it subverted the holodeck episode tropes with "Our Man Bashir," DS9 subverted the atechnological paradise tropes more than once. In "Paradise," (most likely intentionally named so to reference older episodes with paradise in the title) the crew lands on a planet with a colony that at first seems identical to every simple-life, homestead, back-to-basics utopia Star Trek has ever written. Well, as well as drawing attention to problems like poor to nonexistent medical care, tyrannical "government" and barbaric punishments, the episode reveals that the colony has been kept forcibly atechnological by the local tyrant, Alixus, who is the episode's bad guy. Her actions in preventing technology from being used have directly lead to deaths, and definitely spring more from a power fix than any desire for community happiness. In another (admittedly lame) DS9 episode, "Let He Who Is Without Sin..." a secondary plot is that a political group who call themselves the Essentialists are attempting to shut down Risa, because they believe that all that leisure and comfort makes society weak and susceptible to threats. Throughout the episode, the Essentialists attack vacationers in the middle of the night, get a whining Worf on their side, complain about things as socially ingrained as transporters and replicators, and shut down climate control, plunging Risa into a relentless downpour. Ironic that a paranoid group completely dedicated to making society "tough" enough to withstand attack by eliminating helpful technology and anything that brings comfort says nothing about new weapons technology being developed specifically for the purpose of defeating enemies. Homeboy will gripe and sulk about the fact people can eat what they want when they want, but will say nothing about any new triple-phasered, meta-warp-capable, quantum-sheilded, technobabble-ionized mega-bomb for beating up them Dominion goos. (Other than Worf) the Essentialists are the villains of the episode, needlessly ruining peoples vacations because they fear technology is making us weak. They are rightly portrayed as ridiculous and obsessive. So yes, while Star Trek wants us generally to be wary of our use of powerful technology, it (particularly DS9) also wants us to know that it is not, nor does it want us to be, technology fearing farmers who recoil from an iPhone or microwave or functioning air conditioning system, and die of dysentery at 24.

[@kaitlyn__L]

👏👏👏

[@vutava8292]

The machine uprising in the Matrix series seemed pretty understandable to me. A robot killed in self-defense, humanity went nuts. After the dust settled, the surviving machines made their own country. 01 tried to join the UN and their ambassadors were attacked. 01's economy was making the human nations' look bad so they attacked. The machines fought back, humanity willingly *killed their planet* to try to wipe out the machines. Even after all that, the machines kept humanity around, even giving them a place to (virtually) live. (The "human battery" thing was obviously an excuse, there were still *way* better options for powering themselves available.)

[@fightingfalcon777]

Your point about the Synths from Picard is very true. In the Picard prequel novel “The Last Best Hope”, Maddox hates the fact that he is forced to help Geordi develop the Synths because they aren’t “real” in his mind. He talks about how he wants to create real synthetic life like Data, sentient synthetic beings capable of growing and evolving; he sees the Synths as nothing more than automatons, a waste of his talents and a distraction from his true goal as they are far more limited in scope

[@maxiemaxwell550]

Steve is consistently hilarious with these videos.

[@ZeoViolet]

The androids in the first season of Picard probably had budding sentience, but they didn't have a chance to be cultured or refined in any way, either by Soong or by life experience. I honestly think that a lot of Data's life pre-Enterprise had his fellow shipmates treating him fairly unkindly, without him fully understanding it. The _Enterprise_ finally had the atmosphere he needed to be taken seriously in his drive to become more human, to have those he could (so to speak) care about, to have a best friend. Early on Data babbled a lot and often had to be interrupted. Social graces were things he struggled with on a few levels. He didn't understand humor. As time passed, the babbling disappeared, and he slowly and surely began acting more human, even without emotions, and his ability in social situations became fairly refined (aside from "small talk" which only a small talk fan could fall for).

[@rowdy35967]

Some of O'Brien's most tortured moments are only possible through advanced technology, like his imaginary prison sentence, clone death, and whatever happened to him off screen after the holodeck heist. Poor guy.

[@sarahkinsey5434]

I seriously always wondered why Data wasn't mentioned in "Author, Author" in Voyager. They mentioned him when they find other robotic units in a previous episode

[@Tareltonlives]

That's one of the most fascinating things about Trek: there's so many episodes where technology is evil, but so many others where it's the savior. After all, Roddenberry's premise was that technological progress will end capitalism and thus end suffering

[@sbeaber]

I think a lot of classic trek's anti-technology stems from frontier romanticism. The longing for a simpler life etc

[@MattMcIrvin]

20th century science fiction was full of the Turner Thesis transferred to space--the idea that a civilization gained vigor from having a frontier to expand into, and that space was literally the final frontier. It's there in the first line of the Star Trek series intro. But being out on the frontier also means roughing it a bit, inviting danger and discomfort. You don't have all the conveniences of home that make you soft. (Star Trek: TNG and especially Voyager struggled a bit with this--they tried to combine all that with depictions of shipboard life that often seemed incongruously luxurious. Part of the premise of Voyager was supposed to be that, stranded far from the Federation, they didn't have it as easy as the Enterprise-D crew had, but the show was not very consistent about actually depicting this. When Q showed up, on either show, he sometimes seemed to be breaking the fourth wall to comment on this disconnect.)

[@wellingtonsmith4998]

goddammit Steve, another great video. The whole time I was watching I kept thinking "In the USA we use prisoners as slave labor. We force prisoners to work, fight fires and the like for no pay, and many politicians gripe about the loss of that labor should we release the prisoners. The concern isn't 'omg we're exploiting people who have no voice or power.' The concern is 'Well, crap, we've lost thousands of firefighters in California... because they are prisoners infected with Covid-19." If you ask me, the disturbing tone of New Trek is justified.

[@Thyrork]

We are the ones who brought our monsters upon ourselves and have the audacity to be outraged when the beast we summoned bites us. ... is a pretty good story trope that I enjoy greatly.

[@Borgcow]

As to the point about the Mars synths being non-sentient, according to that insane hologram guy from that Voyager two-parter, keeping sentience from them (in his case other holograms) was just another tool of their oppressors. He was an insane holo-guy, but I did always think that was an interesting point

[@venkelos6996]

In addition to your thoughts, I like to think that at least some of what Trekxs take on technology means is "we can achieve great things with it, but we must always be careful not to let it get too ahead of us, and to remember ourselves; keep who and what we are, possibly in spite of it.

[@riff5fki]

I feel like it is also a case for many of these technological fear episodes are also reflective of the fears of our modern times, especially the episodes produced before the ending of the cold war--technology was how we thought we would die, in a global armageddon, and that definitely I think had an impact on our perception of technology in storytelling. Same with Control, which could be a commentary on modern mass surveillance tech as well.

[@JaredByer]

To the best of the memory, TOS never really give us a strong timeline of how the human race got from present day to the near utuopia of the Star Trek time. Without the backstory of the WW3 and Zefram Cochrane and the help of the Vulcans, I think TOS standing alone could imply that the advancement of the human race is what lead to our great technology. When we grow up as a species and stopped fighting each other and started working together and embracing each other, we are able to achieve great things. The events of First Contact, perhaps imply that the invention of technologies result in us growing as a species and not the other way around. In TOS if being better people leads to better technology, the villain can easily be technology without the advancement of the people. In the TNG era the villian can be the people with technology that have not bettered them selves as a species.

[@JosephDavies]

I think perhaps it's important to recognize both of those as important. Technology enables both goodness and evil that can't be achieved otherwise, yet it behooves us to better ourselves lest find the technology and science we're capable of creating hamstrung by our worst impulses, ignorance, and fear.

[@kaitlyn__L]

It is worth noting however that TOS gave us "Zefram Cochrane, of Alpha Centauri", suggesting that perhaps we didn't even have warp drive when we began making human colonies or cooperating with alien species. (Of course, "of" doesn't mean he's from there, necessarily. It can be, but also, Laurence of Arabia was from England.)

[@erinbackstitch]

Is that possible? ALL topics are possible- That's part of Trek's joy. 💕

[@nacnuDsuperb]

You missed out the episodes where alien species become so reliant on their advance technology that they forget how to maintain it and don't realize that their problems are actually being caused by the technology on which the rely. TOS: Spock's brain, TOS: For the World is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky and TNG: When The Bough Breaks come to mind.

[@jamesboulger8705]

That is a common thing that comes up, good point.

[@daydreamer8662]

Wall - E. Oh wait, that's not Trek

[@YesTHATJohnSmith]

​@@daydreamer8662 Not Trek, but EXCELLENT Sci-fi. 👏

[@getnohappy]

With "knows killing alone won't satisfy him"; killing me Steve, genuinely laughed out loud

[@conniepayne4425]

Always thoughtful and thought provoking. Thanks!

[@supergirlvideoclips894]

Amazing compelling edition of Trek Actually. Love the prompting of the subtle parallel with whats happening now.

[@ramaset1]

I’ve watched almost all of your Trek Actually series. This is one of your best episodes yet

[@simplyme8009]

Always a delight. Thank you.

[@harrietmartin2404]

I love your Star Trek content. It really brings me a lot of joy to see deep dives on themes in the franchise. My personal fav is DS9 and you always do the series justice!

[@katakisLives]

I've actually seen that episode fairly recently and its not entirely a technology free paradise, we see pike with his horse and that picnic etc, but if you look carefully on the horizon you'll see highly futuristic buildings on the distant skyline! I reckon advanced tech is not too far away.

[@SiriusMined]

Really good one, my friend. One of the best of a great series.

[@TheLittlekuribohfan]

ds9's paradise. It depicts technology as liberating, and also shows that the true evil was humanity all along. No Technology needed.

[@weldonwin]

More that the evil was just the fanatical whack job, who was willing to force her ideals onto others, regardless of the suffering i caused, rather than humanity being the evil

[@XSilver_WaterX]

Solution: Kill technology before kill all humans.

[@kaitlyn__L]

@@weldonwin aka she was a cult leader! Pretty realistic if you ask me. Plenty of would-be cult leaders (had they the chance) simply become abusive partners or parents. It's far more common than we tend to think. Even in Trek's future, some of them are gonna slip through the cracks, or pay lip service until finally a situation comes along where they can strand a colony ship and finally create their "commune" (well Alixis calls it "community" consistently).

[@MrLeafeater]

Didn't Data once turn off life support to the bridge, and completely take over the ship, with no warning or explanation? I think the episode was "Brothers". That definitely deserved a few thoughts. Great video anyway! Keep it up!

[@Krunnky]

Excellent video Steve. Thank you

[@StarshipCaptainNemo]

EDIT: I wrote this comment below halfway through the video and I have to say I absolutely love your way of guiding the viewers sometimes even subliminal to get the narrative you are trying to convey. Rethoric on expert level. Thanks for making those and keep it up. Now my comment: Technology is the tool, with which the right people save the day! Technology in the wrong hands, or used with the wrong mindset or skillset, can cause catastrophic desasters. And Star Trek always was about "The Needs Of The Few" against all prejudice and even by sacrificing those obvious technological advantages, which is what Insurrection as well as the Borg encounters want to show. Take the reappearance of Hugh in Star Trek Picard for instace, or while we are at it, take the whole android theme in Star Trek Picard.

[@RobCantave]

"Have I wandered off topic, while remaining on topic?" bwahahaha!

[@brianthered]

Wow, great review! Really enjoyed this discussion.

[@AmbrotosArkhon]

The prevailing message is simple: "Don't provoke the Borg."

[@gitchy42]

"Almost, but not completely but not quite violating our most cherished ideals...That's the Star Fleet Way!!" Possibly the most true Star Trek statement ever.

[@Snowball9208]

Just narrow the confinement beam! Well, we have the same problem. Technology does a lot of good for us, but sometimes it goes awry or is used for nefarious purposes.

[@dweaver28602]

Trek, Usually Great job Steve, awesome premise that's been running around my head for a while, but you've put it into words better than I ever could

[@LightHalcyon]

Best conclusion yet Steve. You never let me down!

[@jamesboulger8705]

There is also this weird thing with Data and Lore. Data is optimistic technology and Lore is like his polar opposite. He is a terror, and one of the few genuinely scary characters in the franchise.

[@YesTHATJohnSmith]

"Trust Data, *not* Lore." --- (I dunno, some 👕.)

[@everardohernandez8036]

Forgot Lore Event you kinda touched on it with Data's abilities

[@christ.7594]

Good episode! You might have mentioned the Season 5, Episode 6 "The Game," which eerily anticipates the smartphone era! Keep up the good work!

[@morrisputman8592]

nicely explained Steve!

[@jdonvance]

17:45 Call it uncanny valley. Call it chronic paranoia. But this slow push on a still image had me believing that the nearest android's eye had moved/would move. Creepy!

[@thomashill6347]

Hi Steve, hope you are well this night, I enjoy your opinion on the vast topics you cover on the Star Trek us fans enjoy so much.

[@IanZainea1990]

16:15 what a paradox. Beautiful

[@robot_devils_advocate]

I love that the picture you used at 6:00 makes Riker look like he has cat ears.

[@weldonwin]

There was another Technology Bad episode in Early TNG, The Arsenal of Freedom where the Enterprise crew come across a planet that was dedicated to the development and sale of highly advanced weapons, their very bestest best ever weapon, being some kind of adaptive automated defense network, that destroyed its creators and came close to destroying the Enterprise and only stopped, because it was apparently still in a product demonstration mode and Picard said he wanted to purchase it. So it ended up being both a Technology Bad and a Capitalism Bad episode.

[@bobpeters61]

There's also the slight cautionary plot-point in "The Way To Eden" with Sevrin suffering from a disease that only existed because of the high-tech civilization in Star Trek, and his mad desire to take refuge in the primitive even though he's a threat to anyone outside of the advanced worlds of the show.

[@logiciananimal]

Another important thing to think about re: technology that Trek presented right at the beginning: "The Cage" mentions that one can be dependent on tech and screw yourself up if you forget to maintain it.

[@sael91]

I'm really glad you touched on the dehumanization of AI the way you did. It really is interesting that they keep playing at the question on terms of whether an AI is sufficiently sentient enough to deserve respect of their personhood, which inherently establishes the debate on (usually Starfleet's) terms. Hell, even the term "AI" otherizes their existence, distinguishing between the organic and the artificial, the natural and the unnatural. Instead of questioning whether a life's rights should be determined by its capacity for what we decide qualifies as sufficiently complex thought, perhaps we should first take into account a being's capacity to suffer. Whether that be a physical suffering, a mental suffering, or a suffering of their desired autonomy, that capacity to suffer should be considered first before whatever needs we might have of them and their abilities.

[@RobertVlcek]

I love you, Steve ❤️ you pronounce it "fu-tile" 🤗 It's a bit superficial but you actually said everything needed, I guess. At least nothing comes to my mind to add to you video 🤔 - Only thing and without spoilers: I wonder how Picard will deal with the whole android thing in the future because the showrunners pointed at that still being a topic in the future.

[@stephenandrews5577]

In the first portion you speak about the plethora of "paradise" themed episodes that are in Trek, most are apparently aptly named. They all explore a joyful existence without technology - I was reminded of Paradise, ep15/s2 of DS9. It's an excellent deconstruction of that whole idea, showing the bleak and horrifying side of anti-technology as well.

[@dotter8]

"We has seen the enemy and he is us!" -- Walt Kelly

[@GermanLeftist]

For me, Star Trek in this sense stands in tradition to Berthold Brecht's play "Life of Galileo" and especially the three versions that it went through. In the first version that Brecht wrote in 1938, Galileo's quest for knowledge and opposition to the chruch was portrayed as something positive without question, but the second version, an English translation, was created in a post Hiroshima world and thusly Brecht, and his collaborator Charles Laughton, added a different layer to the play. Suddenly, Galileo's quest for knowledge was not longer just seen as just and right. The chruch was still the antagnoist but Galileo has doubts about what he is doing, and in Brecht's final, third version of the play, Galileo voices those doubts in the end, openly stating that scientific progress without moral judgment is too dangerous to be pursued. And that is the message I get from Star Trek and why I am scared of the technological progress we are making today. We don't make technological progress with any thought about if we should do it, what the moral and social implications would be, but simply because we can and because there is money to be made from it.

[@shaynejoseph1527]

OMG OMG OMG NEXT MONTH!!! Loved this one too, mate. But DAMN BRING ON NEXT MONTH!

[@terranceroff8113]

"How is that Possible" It's Trek.. paradox is a serious plot device thing

[@Markie-lc2es]

Great video. I gotta check out that Soundcloud series, The Ensign’s Log @11:45 I always saw Data’s apparent collaboration with the Borg as a ruse. Data concluded he had to go along with the Borg given their superior strength - they controlled most of the ship. The alternative was that he would likely have been destroyed. He decided to gain their trust. When the time was right (now with Picard accompanying him) he carried out the mission objective, to puncture one of the warp plasma coolant tanks. Ok, ok he probably had lots of opportunities to do this before. But with the same amount of panache ?! I don’t think so. His little quip, as he smashes open the casing, serves to explain himself. Resistance IS futile, if you can successfully deceive the system. Your hero, Kathryn Janeway (and party), do something similar in the ep “Unimatrix Zero”. There has been research into deceptive collaboration and internal resistance, including Stanley Hoffmann and Bertram Gordon.

[@SHDUStudios]

“Killer robot sky octopus” I need that on a shirt!

[@Tribute2JohnnyB]

Another great one, Steve

[@michaelcividanes2930]

One thing that I think made the labor synths different then Data in the eyes of the Federation was that they were created by the federation. They weren't created by someone else and then joined the federation like Data did.

[@renatocorvaro6924]

New layout for Trek Actually? Neat.

[@mattof2006]

I love your content, and the message your able bring out of all the themes of star trek, I think I have a good one for you, are there any truly "Alien" life in star trek?

[@jtpencils]

I was a little surprised you didn’t include the episode “Ultimate Computer” from STO in this assessment. I think it’s another strong argument for the subject, in line with “Measure of a Man”. Not disappointed or debating, just stating it surprised me. Well done as always.

[@zero_gravity5861]

Why is Nomad made of sprinkler heads?

[@GrannyGamer1]

And spaghetti strainers

[@ShawnRavenfire]

After Nomad exploded, some of his parts drifted through space, where he was picked up by Romulans, who used him as replacement parts for their cloaking device.

[@biggshasty]

And he seems to be equipped with several sixties car cigarette lighters. They must smoke a lot where he comes from.

[@zero_gravity5861]

Thanks, Steve! Love the podcasts.

[@weldonwin]

@@biggshasty Well, Nomad was an Earth probe, I think from the late 20th century, so yes, his creator probably were full on chain smokers and so Nomad was probably programmed to make contact with alien civilizations by offering them a light

[@michaeldeboer9940]

Wait, so Pike’s fantasy is to escape into the countryside with his horse, and in Star Trek Generations Kirk goes into retirement with his wife in the countryside riding horses.

[@joeblaster8770]

In writing they were basically the same character "Horatio Hornblower in space" but they became different enough.

[@MrOuter]

Surprised by no mention of Lore. That said, brilliant piece as always. Thinking about the dangers of technology raises some interesting questions about our social development. Very often the issues presented by technology are more concerned with "What bad could someone do with this technology?" rather than "What about this technology is bad?" and it's quite telling that we as a society are scared of technology because of what we could do with it.

[@joshdaniels2363]

And I agree with you about the Synths being a valid narrative choice. I'm a lawyer. Precedent isn't immutable; courts can and do retreat from it or even abandon and abrogate it altogether. That the Synths happens speaks to how much the Federation strayed from the light in the (in-universe and real-life) decades since Measure of a Man (and presumably we already saw the beginning of it with the holograms on Voyager).

[@NotThatSarahLevy]

Oh wow, I'm really excited for the Tuvix video.

[@SomeRandomG33k]

I do really like how you end this video. Pointing out that some of us are okay with the suffering of others as it gives us comfort. As Jamie J commented on your last Trek Actually video on Terrorism, "Nous sommes tous des assassins--Sartre." Which I have been told actually translates to 'We Are All Murders' instead of 'We Are All Assassins' as Google Translate told me. If we benefit from all of the systems of oppression and exploitation, then all of us are responsible for the violence enacted on our behalf by the states we live under. We have to fight against these systems of injustices with every fiber of being. Not just to fight for Synths right's to exist, although as a worker living under Late-Stage Neo-Liberal Capitalism, I am sympathetic to the Synths. I must sell my labor for less than it's worth in order to just have the basic necessities of life. Since those basic necessities are treated as commodities instead of rights. Seriously, I would join the Synths Rebellion/Revolt. After all, as a worker, someone who is just a cog in a giant machine, the machine of Capitalism, a cog that is easily disposable, expendable, and replaceable, the is the Reserve Labor Army for a reason, what control over my life do I have? What agency do I have? Besides, Injustice towards one is an Injustice towards all. We Are All Murders. Workers of the World, All we have to lose is our Chains.

[@TheTrycehyman]

I mean, the ruling in "Measure of a Man" didn't even hold up for Data's progeny. Starfleet tries to swoop in for Lal, and even Picard needs Data to remind him to check his bullshit.

[@Nosagram]

Right near the beginning of this video you put out the premise that within the StarTrek franchise “technology saves the day”. I know there are episode where explicitly the tech do save the day (Pegasus), I feel that it’s not technology saving the day. It’s more the innovativeness and ingenuity on the part of characters using that tech in out of the box manners that is the real hero there. In those examples like the Pegasus, the use of technology usually usually have a morality focus component with them. Aside from that, great episode!

[@timvest2192]

What a great song lyric that might be? By simply replacing, "She's got Betty Davis Eyes," with, "Oh, those Rogue AIs!?"😎🐱

[@travispollett2120]

Little surprised Lor wasn’t included in this video but I can’t argue it would have added much. Great video.

[@arklestudios]

Precedent is why the court proceeding in Author, Author shouldn't have even happened. At the very least, they should've referenced the case in that episode in the EMH's defense. Instead of a lazy retread of the rights of A.I. that was the episode's B-plot, they could've had the whole episode ultimately be about the rights of the artist to control their IP. I had more thoughts, but I'm not awake enough to convey them. Maybe I'll try later.

[@kaitlyn__L]

They referenced it once, the Magistrate (or whatever his title was) said it was inapplicable to holograms IIRC. Which seems like something they should've challenged.... because _Measure of a Man_ certainly implied it had far more broad implications than strictly for Soong-type androids, especially in Picard's closing statement, but here we are. Lazy thing on Voyager's writing staff, which makes the Federation waaaaayyyy darker, but there we go.

[@arklestudios]

@@fluffysheap Didn't those two episodes also have at least some courtrooms scenes in the second act as well?

[@arklestudios]

@@kaitlyn__L When I re-worked this episode for my Sam/Seven fic, I actually had Bruce Maddox show up to defend the EMH. The Doctor commented how last time he was involved with a case like this he lost, to which Maddox goes, "Yeah, but I was on the wrong side in that one so I wouldn't hold it against me."

[@jp1701A]

My favorite part about Kirk is that is the Bane of all Artificial Intelligence who conquerors all AIs just by talking them into society. The best came from "the Ch angling" when Kirk clearly comes to a moment where he is like "I am now sick of trying to be nice to this thing..hold my beer. YOU ARE THE IMPERFECTION FOLLOW YOUR PROGRAMMING." Its a good thing for the Borg they didn't show up in Kirk's time they wouldn't have lasted very long. Also if only the Romulans knew the truth about Kirk, they probably would have proposed peace much longer ago!

[@TheBunnyDestroyer]

This is my favorite Trek, Actually so far. #IstandwithData

[@mossiegee4674]

Also don't worry about computers....just update them to Windows 10 and they'll all crash 🤣🤣🤣

[@imjango1052]

9:45 More accurately, they are the Cybermen from Doctor Who.

[@OldJerzyDevil]

So in a relatively short time the franchise has gone from " No beach to walk on " to, " what the hell are all these Androids and photonics doing on MY dammed beach!?!"

[@mokwella]

A big theme in Star Trek regarding technology is captured in this quote from Khan Noonien Singh : "Captain, although your abilities intrigue me, you are quite honestly inferior. Mentally, physically. In fact, I am surprised how little improvement there has been in human evolution. Oh, there has been technical advancement, but, how little man himself has changed."

[@captaeh]

Not part of the Star Trek franchise, but Mass Effect executed this idea really well with the Quarians/Geth

[@markmather8222]

Marshall McLuhan and Harold Innis (a couple of Canadien Philosophers) have some surprisingly prophetic sci-fi predictions for their times about how technology can affect us as individuals and our society. They focus more on the technology of communication, but juxtapose the affect of technology on any facet of our lives beyond communication, and transformative effects can be seen everywhere. For better and worse. Also, shout out to DS9's Battle Lines episode for it's technology driven penal colony immortality hellscape!

[@user-zh4vo1kw1z]

Regarding your final point: Animatrix almost literally states that we pretty much had it coming.

[@BioGoji-zm5ph]

I'm rather surprised that V'GER is never brought up even once in this video.

[@qwertyuiopgarth]

Given the special effects available it is an obvious important plot point when the 'nonsentient robotic workers' have human faces.

[@YesTHATJohnSmith]

Yeah, and numbers embossed onto their foreheads, to make *blatantly* clear that *they aren't "real" people.

[@YesTHATJohnSmith]

* (Either a DELIBERATE tribute to Douglas Adams's Electric Monks, or an ACCIDENTAL one {thinking of it}.)

[@alphaxnation7050]

What happened to all your Trek swag and toys you had on your desk? Also, TOS Episode 3, shows Kirk's name as James R Kirk on the gravestone. When it change to Tiberius and what did the R stand for befiore it changed? Love this channel. I will definitely become a patron supporter when I am employed again.

[@vtmarik]

Don't know if this is particularly relevant but even after Data won his case to not be dismantled by Maddox against his will, a Starfleet admiral tried to force Data to transfer his daughter away to be studied simply due to the Admiral's own wish to have Lal studied and not treating her with the same due process shown to Data. The only real reason this attempt didn't succeed is due to the fact that Lal suffered a catastrophic failure and died, or else we would have had Measure of a Man 2: This Time It's Personal.

[@YesTHATJohnSmith]

(Thank you, vtmarik. You and Shutterbug ⤵️ just jogged my memory!) The reason why the Admiral wanted to kidnap Lal is due to the fact that she was so new--- she HAD no civil rights, unlike her dad!

[@jamesboulger8705]

Steve Shives makes a good point about the mixed messages. Star Trek is canonically optimistic about technology, but how can you have a sci-fi show without some crazy techno shit happening. I remember the TOS episode where they hit the barrier and an ESP crewmember goes crazy. That made me fear exploration! ! That guy was crazy. Another dark example is Q and the borg. "It's not safe out here." He really rained on the federation's optimistic exploration parade. And in terms of keeping an eye on technology, genetic enhancement is always held as the example of when we go awry with our technological capabilities. With regard to not wanting replicators and staying in paradises, Picard is held as the technological optimist in his family. He tries to convince his brother to add a replicator and claim that simply adding a convenience won't remove our identity. TNG loved to go dark. From the borg to mind raping the same person MORE THAN ONCE. But remember about the Borg, they were a compromise; they were originally supposed to be insectoid.