Does The Conqueror Mk 2 Suffer From Bad Ammo?

[@alexandreaudard4309]

Everytime you say "APDS"a spookston dies

[@Endermann111]

*insert dog/cat meme here*

[@aseortoalgoritmo7002]

Watching spookston for a long time and ngl most of the time is just skill issue cause he aim it like APHE

[@ricardoricardoricardoricardo]

Good.

[@zee_terminator2850]

I wish

[@Riotlight]

The thing with APDS which a lot of people dont realise is going for the thickest armour is better then going for a thin bit. As the more armour you punch through the more fragments you get that will do damage.

[@J4ckmaestro]

Then why does penning the maus create little spall?

[@lolgamer6466]

@@J4ckmaestrobecause the maus is too thicc, it just defies logical reasoning

[@auricom8472]

Penetration tests in tbe hanger mean nothing in battle because the game will throw some bs into the mix. Thus when you shoot the enemy the round goes through and dose minimal damage, no damage at all(bounce or shattered shell), and or the round ghosts through the guy and he annihilates you with one shot.

[@SeanFicken]

Most of the BS you are seeing is through server desync which is unfortunate but unavoidable, The conqueror has better damage with the APDS due to the weight of the penetrator than most other APDS (APDS damage is heavily effected by this). The really unfortunate thing with APDS is that the shit simulator doesn't show shell shattering (which is the worst part).

[@aseortoalgoritmo7002]

Ok now convince spookston that APDS is usable and most of the time it's just a skill issue (it will be impossible)

[@Dorsidwarf]

Getting aced maxed out super crew makes a biiiiig difference to the insufferability of the Conq gun, more than most tanks. Going from 5 to 4 seconds is nothing compared to going from 18 to 15

[@Un-gh3jo]

In my experience the shell isnt all that particularly bad. Its mostly just inconsistent, of course that is all of war thunder really but the conq's apds has a legendary ability to disappear on impact or penetration. It feels weird because the cent mk 3 also uses apds, not of similar size but its a much better shell, its not half as inconsistent. From experience across hundreds of games? Its as you said at the end, a learning curve, you have to learn where to shoot with that particular shell and when to do it, awkward angles, particular spots in tanks which can bug out the shell, etc. Good video and good analysis big man.

[@SeanFicken]

Thanks, I really appreciate your feedback, If you were to ask me I believe the learning curve starts with just how powerful APHE is, you don't learn proper shot placement when you use them (although Brits don't get much APHE to begin with).

[@connivingkhajiit]

Starting with britain taught me the importance of aiming. Hitting the ammo or breech is crucial to your success if you cant frontally pen their center mass (which you often can with the conqueror)

[@massivewaffle2424]

If it's ever inconsistent it's because you either don't have premium or because you have a booster (most of the time)

[@SeanFicken]

Lol Booster means guaranteed ghost shells )))

[@Jehkosa]

Honestly, if you'e made it as far as the Conqueror on the Brit tech tree you should know how to play with solid/discarding AP.

[@Truck_Company_84]

Sir, I’m grinding everything British except ships for my First Nation. Got the JUK and OES+ a spaded T-90S(used as backup or to get spawn points for JUK/OES) and I’m making quick progress while oddly enjoying it! Yes the Brit’s take some skill and I’m fairly new to war thunder (joined a year ago but didn’t play much on PC and restarted on console this Christmas), but Brit’s just take a patient okay style! Your info really has and is helping! 👍👍👍

[@hugow3266]

The problem with the shell is not its theoretical performance but its inconsistency. you can shatter with any kind of space armor such as simple overlapping track on armor. Your shell will be eaten in folds of side plates Your shell will sometimes produce exactly 2 Spall other time it will hit ammo and 1 tap a tank and sometimes the fuel tank of bmp 1 will absorb the shell whole. Problems less present on more modern apds or heat round which deal much more consistent post penetration damage. The shell would be great if gaijin realised how much energy this shell had but right now its just an ok round

[@Jazzyo7]

I absolutely LOVE my Conqueror, but the shell shattered on it is ridiculous. The fact that I can't pen the front plate of a Centurian Mk10 because it has some weird double front plate is quite annoying though. On something like a Super Pershing? Sure I could understand it since the armor is spaced, but definitely not 2 layered plates like that.

[@UseMePatra]

Not a bad round or tank but it's sole purpose is to fight IS-3s and the likes hull down at ranges of 500+ meters which is like 1 in 20 matches , you're far more likely to run into a raketen or an USH around the corner at which point you're a SL piggy bank

[@SeanFicken]

I don't think many tanks like facing raketens or ushs

[@strategicperson95]

I've had more sucess playing the Conquor defensively. The problem I see is most maps, and game modes, don't let you play like that all the time. Especially for single capture point games where you have to play aggressive in order to win.

[@hermiegrobler2576]

Honestly, i think well said and explained, people just need to get over having a bad round. Sometimes things dont work as they meant to, like having atgms hitting tracks and not doing any other damage on light or spaa

[@massivewaffle2424]

The issue is when it comes to light vehicles mostly, a APDS shell goes in kills the gunner and because of the long ass reload the light tank gets their gunner back and just remove your tracks and gun barrel. In open combat like the map you showed against mbts and heavys its not bad but light tanks in urban maps which is common you are often just fucked. And you often dont have time to switch to HESH after using your first shot

[@SeanFicken]

Thank you for the feedback this is probably the most well thought out response I have seen. That is definitely an issue slow reload tanks have, the next update will give vehicles more modules to damage, so maybe that will help with the reload issue, as repairs take longer than crew swapping.

[@FMKeb]

Conq was my dream tank after I got the Cent Mk. 1. Still use it to grind for the Chieftain 10.

[@SeanFicken]

The Conq is definitely a great tank for 7.7 BR. Honestly 7.7 Britain is just really good.

[@tankdood329]

To be fair the you hit a lot of tanks with only 2 crew remaining

[@SeanFicken]

Yeah to be fair that M48 probably would have died even with full crew though, The leopard probably wouldn't be able to fire back if it didn't kill him though.

[@piggyharris7988]

I love the conqueror, one of my favorite heavies and my favorite 7.7

[@RYNOCIRATOR_V5]

I'm using it for the event grind, it's great

[@Fear_Naught]

my biggest gripe with it is that any kind of spaced armour just kills the APDS (looking at you super pershing). like two spaced 60mm plates cause the APDS to just combust. not that it's innacurate but annoying as hell. Also the reload sucks because of the two piece.

[@SeanFicken]

Definitely a learning curve due to the shattering, the MBT-70 was designed against APDS, but by the time it would have been fielded it's armor was already too weak against soviet projectiles.

[@Geniusinventor]

I remembere when Conqueror better Apds nothing could handle it, it had about 300mm flat pen and 220mm angle pen.

[@hikari2hikari2]

More like suffer from bad reload

[@JUNIsLuke]

The conq is goateddddddd I absolutely love this thing!!!!

[@b.c.2281]

The reload is most definitely the main issue with the Conq. Its the reason I generally play with the Caernarvon instead. Its just not worth the tradeoff for the extra pen when 20 pounder APDS already has more than enough to pen pretty much everything at this BR.

[@verstappen9937]

Yea but… conqueror looks cool

[@b.c.2281]

@@verstappen9937 100%, the Conqueror with the add on spaced armor looks like it's wearing platemail. It's my favourite tank in the game aesthetically speaking.

[@r1zmy]

I prefer the conqueror over the caernarvon specifically because the armor saved my ass quite a number of times.

[@b.c.2281]

@@r1zmy the turret armor is definitely better, absolutely. I think for my play style it just doesn't matter as much.

[@largelogan2615]

Conquerer is my favorite tank. Its a bit sad that it gets trolled by volumetric and shell shatter alot but other than that its pretty funny to lol pen soviet heavies

[@SeanFicken]

I really like it, hits quite hard if you are used to the quirks APDS has.

[@ShargDudu-wf6hi]

And in a full upriver everything pens you

[@notazombie...notatall8577]

In real life the British APDS could go straight through a king tiger upper plate, in war thunder "shell shattered 🤡"

[@cherrypoptart2001]

yh, i believed the Conq had the most powerful gun in Europe and only was surpassed by the US m103 in terms of kinetic power

[@MANNYzZ]

it can go through king tiger ufp all british APDS can except the one on comet and challenger

[@tiochocmanbananaespinoza7278]

Thanks for the info man, I'm still grinding towards the Conq cause it's my favorite tank and I want it to be good so bad! I now know how to use it more or less

[@SeanFicken]

In my opinion the brit 7.7 lineup is probably the best lineup that nation has, you get the centurion Mk.3 you get the Caernarven, and the Conqueror. What's more is that you can even get a premium centurion in that lineup as well. It's a really good lineup for learning how to play higher rank MBT's.

[@Sandwichr]

When it works its great, but when it doesn't its infuriating. I had no idea about apds shattering on spaced armor and shell shatter not being modelled in protection analysis certainly didn't help with that. Did I miss some in-game resource informing you of that or is it just not there?

[@SeanFicken]

It's not there until it happens unfortunately and APDS are the only projectiles effected by it, which is probably the reason people get so frustrated.

[@owenlewis1314]

​@@SeanFickenI think non capped AP can also shell shatter.

[@SeanFicken]

Interesting, I haven't seen that in the damage feed before that I can recall, I'll check that out later.

[@kyizelma]

HUH??? THERES 2 CONQUERORS??? or does it just refer to the super conqueroro

[@SeanFicken]

Well, there was a Mk1 IRL, but not in game, But there really isn't a thing called a super conqueror, the add on armor in game was an experimental set meant for testing HESH missiles IIRC.

[@apple222sickly]

saving this vid for later when i get the conqueror to see just how much people cry about APDS my conway and vickers do well enough, the only time i had shell shatter in the past month is when i faced super Pershings, in which all i had to do was switch to another shell or simply shoot under the turret's spaced armor

[@apple222sickly]

yall have a severe skill issue only issue are king tigers where center mass doesn't oneshot

[@AlphaHorst]

the APDS has good angle pen... literally looses the most pen on angle compared to base pen of any shell in the game including APCR. Like mate. It has the worst angle pen modifier of any shell in the game. It has an insane chance to shatter at any angle exeeding 30° and the damage is once again bad as hell, only APCR has less spalling and less shrapnel damage. The conq literally has the worst performing APDS shell in the game. It does not matter if it is useable. It has worse modifiers than any other APDS shell for no reason. All first gen and all second gen APDS share their modifier, just the conq is out of tzhat line. Imagine DM23 having a 80% fall off in angle pen and only 20% the damage when compared to every other second gen Long dart in the game while all other darts share the exact same damage modifiers. then tghere is your "damage comparrison" killing only 2 instead of tree crew is the difference between kiloing the target or not. that is a lot of damage missing. Chances that that T 54 would kill you on a conq are 80% while they are 0% for anyone shooting APHE after the pen. Then there is Gaijins refusal to accept physics in general. Shells pening their maxium armour deal less damage. Which is ahistoric. The more armour APDS or AP has to penetrate the more spalling the shell causes, the more damage it deals. the Most damage should be dealt at around 90-95% of max pen not the other way around as it is right now.

[@aseortoalgoritmo7002]

This is just not true at all. I have no trouble killing king Tigers, panthers and IS tanks with the M41 (Mind that the M41 only has a 76mm) you only have to aim unlike APHE.

[@AlphaHorst]

@@aseortoalgoritmo7002 the M41A1 uses second gen APDS which is for better than first gen. Secondly My whole point, as I stated several times, is that the APDS of the Conq is underperforming even when compared to first gen APDS. So yoir whole point is mute

[@aseortoalgoritmo7002]

@@AlphaHorst i tried various caliber of APDS of first and second Gen and didn't have trouble with any one of them so your is just a skill issue like spookston

[@hehhehhe9178]

@@aseortoalgoritmo7002 Hes saying that other APDS is fine its just that conq's one seems to be particularly bad for some reason. Please read what he's saying lmao

[@AlphaHorst]

@@aseortoalgoritmo7002 yea sure mate. The problems are known and have been proven both ingame and via data mines. Your personal opinion is of absolutely no relevance in this case Everything I stated is a prooven fact with data to back it up. Yours is an unproven opinion at best and cope at worst

[@berserkermaniac8697]

Short answer. Yes cus gajin broke APDS so it WAS good and now it's Meh

[@avidacorounia1696]

Did you watch the video?

[@berserkermaniac8697]

@@avidacorounia1696 yes

[@avidacorounia1696]

@@berserkermaniac8697 its not going to shell shatter you don't hit spaced armor and know where to shoot it depends on the apds to but some apds are very good

[@berserkermaniac8697]

As i said Gaijin Broke APDS

[@avidacorounia1696]

@@berserkermaniac8697 i remember a time where apds used to be very hard to use and you could not explode ammo that eassilly like now so its kind of the opposite

[@bruhbruh3847]

VERY GOOD EXPLAINED SUIT MAN

[@Patches-vq8cd]

I personally think the best way to make solid shot and apds more viable, its to nerf the Aphe effect by 20% as a minimum. That way your tank cant be 1 shotted by a capola hit. Just like solid shot. But it will also most likely out the gunner so you still get the effect but it isnt a straight up nuke the tank.

[@notnurfcreanga]

if A is good and B is bad, nerfing A to be as bad as B will make the game unpleasant, buffing B to be as good as A would make the game fair and pleasant, i think apcr, ap and apds should have more spall

[@Patches-vq8cd]

@@notnurfcreanga well i kind of like where apds is, but i dont like how easy aphe is, as to me it is point and click.

[@dennislemasters4339]

in real life the conqueror was made to counter soviet heavy tanks like the is-3, americans made the m-103 for the same purpose and the french attempted to make a heavy tank for that purpose which led to the amx50 project

[@FlyingPigeon-00001]

Conqueror is just such an underrated tank. It's really fun to play even in uptiers.

[@SeanFicken]

I do quite like it, especially after playing it recently to test the damage it does, definitely a solid sniper tank.

[@FlyingPigeon-00001]

It can take a few hits too

[@AbsoluteAmoeba]

Icl, I don’t get why people gush on the Caernarvon over the Conqueror. The Conqueror is far better. I was a little skeptical on the conq after watching Spook’s video, but after playing it, it is probably one of my favourite videos from GB at 7.7. As a British main, I’m very used to AP (APDS) being lacklustre when compared to APHE so it’s fine. The only issue I’ve had is when my Conq round ricocheted off the Leo 1A1’s bs armour point on the gun mantlet. Apart from that, it’s a solid tank - good fun.

[@EthanPineapple]

Because the Caernarvon used to be the best British vehicle

[@pitzo5555]

i really like your commentary describing the strategy its good break from the usual 10+ kill montages

[@SeanFicken]

Hi, Thank you for your feedback. I have noticed that some really skilled players just make commentary over the gameplay without saying why they are doing what they are doing, so I decided I would explain what I am doing.

[@pitzo5555]

@@SeanFicken truly the doing of all doing. I particularly liked it when you said "it's doing time" and did all over the place

[@Patches-vq8cd]

So why do you think warthunder does not model Aphe correctly? As they always preach about having correctly modeled vehicles yet, the most common ammo isnt??

[@SeanFicken]

It's a holdover from tanks beta where they were more loose with realism. People are used to it now, so making it more realistic would change ww2 vehicles a lot and disrupt experienced players. That's why they have chosen to have a vote for it as per the last road map.

[@ethanspaziani1070]

The answer is yes

[@o-hogameplay185]

the Conq is just trash. the only thing worse i've played with was the Churchill 7. Several great issues with the Conq: 1, absolutely zero hull armor with a big rounded turret ring 2, absolutely horrible turret armor not just against anybody who knows where to shoot, but in general. this includes: a, all hatches being 16mm cast. this means, that a soviet/french 100mm HE shell (or stronger) hitting the turret above the driver's hatch will OP the crew (and the additional armor makes it even worse). Same goes for those shells hitting near the turret hatches. b, the mantlet can be penned by APHE, which will trigger OP with soviet 122mm, and hit the ready ammo with the rest of the shells c, the gunner's optic is ~50-60mm, so even SPAAs can 1shot you in hulldown d, the turret roof is 30mm, meaning 120mm HE, and 105mm HESH will OP your crew without hitting near a hatch. e, the cupola can be penned by soviet 100/122mm 3, bad zoom 4, horrible accuracy 5, first gen APDS 6, bad reload 7, comically small ready rack 8, bellow average gun dep. EDIT: you talked about the angle pen. it is just plain awful. the 105mm L7 APDS is just better. shatters way less, does decent damage, and pens a lot better.

[@Tummeh111]

wrong...the hull armour if positioned properly is impenetrable to even some missiles and heat. turret armour ive never heard a more incorrect statement before cuz ive never been penned on the turret cheeks by anything in an up-br or my br, the sides are weaker yes but still stop plenty of tanks from killing you and the back is bad. the hatches being thin dont matter cuz 90% of HE slingers dont know how to aim so they just shoot your front plate or turret and do nothing. mantlet is also kinda bad but you can still get lucky on it tho. gunners optic nobody shoots that cuz they always panic when seeing a conq looking at them. turret roof one again everyone panics and just fires without aiming. and cupola isnt an issue if you just do what i done and paint it a dark colour or put a bush there. i found the zoom dont really matter too much in my experience but its personal preference with that. accuracy is bad when you dont have adjustment of fire which im guessing you didnt cuz you got fed up. first gen apds isnt bad as the video shows you just have to not be stupid and actually aim which one again most people cant do. reload isnt an issue if you play it how its was suppost to be used (sniper) however if you know what your doing then its not an issue when in cqc. ready rack i personally dont take any notice of it but i guess thats personal preference cuz nobody i know has said its an issue. and gun depression isnt bad i find it to be really good especially with the stabiliser so you can just drive over a hill, fire and then retreat without needing to stop for your gun to balance. i can see what your saying with some of these points but most of them can be resolved by just learning the tank instead of first getting it and having aim like a WOT player.

[@jasonnguyen1840]

I'm 200RP/1 modifications away from spading the Conqueror. Over 120 battles with it. 60% win rate. 1.3 KDA 1. False. Its hull armor is very good actualy. Can survive all the Soviet APHE straight on. LFP is shit, but all Brit tanks have shit LFP so it's kinda a moot point. Hell even the Challenger 3 can be killed by a Sherman short 75mm APHE if shot close enough on the LFP. There are no turret ring weakspot. The turret ring has armor values going from 300-380mm. It can even survive 90mm cheatfs. 2. Loads of bullshit. a, The hatches while being 16mm cast, is a tiny ass weak spot. In real battles no one will have time to aim for that. 100mm HE won't do jack shit. It has tiny amount of TNT and no self-respecting Soviet Tankers will bring out the 100mm HE to shoot the bean-sized "weak spots" you've stated. If you got bonked by 152mm HE then it's just another fucking Tuesday ain't it? 152mm HE kills EVERYTHING. b, I dare you to take any APHE and try to pen that mantlet. It's a volumetric blackhole just like the Tiger 1 mantlet. I've never been killed facing soviet 100mm, 122mm and 152mm APHE through the mantlet in over 120 battles. c, Again, a bean-sized "weak spot" you nit-picked from the Protection Analysis. It's non-existant in real battles. d, Getting domed by 120mm+ HE will OP anything, not just the Conq. e, Same story as a lot of other tanks. The Cupola is a weak spots for pretty much ANY tank. Sovet 100mm fused and destroyed the American T95's cupola, does that mean that its armor is non-existent?? 3, Bad zoom? so does every other Soviet and American MBT below 7.7.... 4, Horrible accuracy? Now I know you've never played it... I've LFPed T-55 from 1km away without any problems. 5, Which still pen 120mm+ on 60degree plate from 1km away, meaing Soviet Armor is paper to it. 6, Sure. I agree its reload is shit. You learn to live with it. 7. Not an issue. 8. By your metric then all Soviet tanks are dirt. The Vickers Mk1 has the same depression and nobody said anything about it. It's average, not below average.

[@tosicdash0242]

@@Tummeh111a weakspot is a weakspot. Enemies do usually shoot your cupola and ofc experiences are different for everyone. what sucks is you are a 4 man crew with 3 in turret so you can be one shot from cupola hatch from aphe. Or at very least very disabled. Yes amazing frontal armor but means very little when your giant cupola is ontop. The apds is more of a gamble. I have had insane one shots to then have no spall. Adps likes to be random. Also has a long reload so when apds decides to fail it’s a huge risk. Even if you aim at weakspots sometimes sabot doesn’t like to work. Still a cool tank but you have to play insanely passive even in downtiers.

[@wallachia4797]

skill issue

[@danielzaba9913]

Saying the Churchill 7 is bad when it´s literally one of the best at 4.7 immediately invalidates your opinion.

[@wallachia4797]

Spookston said it's bad so it must be so!

[@nineonine9082]

So aim for ammo?

[@joseSanchez-ej2oh]

Heavies with long reloads.... At 7.7? No Just no and as a Soviet main I can just compare it to the t10m It is simply strange to watch heavies like the T10m being used as first spawns at 7.7 For ex, I remember playing a bmp as a first spawn and being unable to recognize the other British 7.7 heavy bc I thought someone was trying to get god mode with one of the early British mediums? But no it was a 7.7 heavy With t10 or is4, the reload alone means I have to hope one of the two enemies I'm fighting is an absolute dunce bc otherwise I'm boned I'll definitely play the T10m to spade it one day and I think it'll be fine but it'll be a challenge and not something Id actually really want to do at 7.7 I got to 6.7 Britain btw b4 reminding myself I didn't have to shoot myself in the foot and the best thing that 7.7 Britain has is by far the Fox There is one apds round I use for the Soviets and it's the 6.7casemate tank Great giant round,great post pen, reload isn't that horrible , hardly need to aim or even compensate for drop and most importantly there's way fewer stabilized speed demons flying around

[@BladezAndrew]

what is bro talking about the T-10M is at 8.3 do you mean the T-10A?

[@_deqi.]

I played with it and I never had problems with it, it’s mostly skill issue for y’all

[@tweda4]

This is such a bizarre video. You literally show that the round does less damage, and your answer is - "well, to me its not that big of a difference" Oh, well, sorry, i didn't realise you had final say. As it is, Britain tree will have been using APDS since the challenger at 5.3, so its not like its a new concept for us. We all know that shell shatter is the major problem with this round, which makes a gun that should be effective potentially completely ineffective, and your answer is - "Just memorise the armour structure of your enemies and dont shoot at the places with spaced plates lol" Oh, right! Of course! How could I not think of that! Just memorise enemy armour layouts, and fire at weakpoints without overlapping plates! Doi, its so obvious! Ooh, and lastly - "Here's a game where i did well in the super conqueror." Great. I've had games where I do well with the sodding thing. I've also had plenty of games where I get one shot because my shell shatters (Shell shatter on a BMP sideskirt was the most memorable of these) One match with a map that plays to the tanks strengths doesn't mean it doesnt have problems. Why bother with this? Just acknowledge that the shell shatter is a stupid mechanic, and only serves to make a round even worse versus OPHE. Its not like anyone can seriously argue that it makes sense to have shell shatter for APDS when APHE can kill any tank instantly because it isnt modeled correctly.

[@SeanFicken]

Hi, thanks for your feedback. In regards to the apds on the conqueror vs the M103 solid shot, the conq apds didn't do substantially less than the m103 against the turret of the T-54 (turret ting damage, 2 crew taken out) nor was the side shot on the T-54. The shot on the is-3 that I made has the same effect on the tank as well, damaging the ammo specifically. Due to the mass on the conqueror's apds, it has the highest damage for apds in the game and is the vehicle in the subject of this video. Shell shatter is a real problem for gen 1 and 2 apds in real life, and it's not fully accurate in terms of modeling, though. You should learn the armor layouts of the tanks you face, especially if you want to play higher tiers, it's one of the big things for improving your gameplay. Gaijin's latest roadmap includes a vote to make aphe realistic this year. The map has nothing to do with the damage of the shell. You even saw that the IS-4 took 2 shots to kill. Lastly, while the apds has its issues it will penetrate and do damage when ap and aphe won't, like the shot I made on the IS-4.

[@PatrikWT]

First

[@PatrikWT]

@MrMayoPlays and nothing, just saying, I really don't care you don't care, so fck off with that shit

[@marumaru6084]

This sounds just like Keir Starmer backing Corbyn as leader just rubbish!