Does Your Main Character Suffer Enough?

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The best characters are the ones who undergo the greatest struggles. In this video, I share my system for developing meaningful suffering and conflict for your main character to elevate your novel.
⏲️ TIMESTAMPS:
1:44 - Increase the power gap
3:48 - Remove powers, allies, & weapons
4:38 - Negative coincidences only
5:29 - Turn success into failure
6:43 - Align suffering with theme
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[@TamAnds]

I have literal opposite problem, I body slam my characters into rock bottom and then I drag them down further, to the point where the odds are so stacked against them I don't actually know how to get them out of it in the end. I can't help it, I like to make my characters so so pathetic.

[@joshuastclairmusic]

I’m very excited to see how your channel evolves. I’m a composer of soothing piano music and orchestral fantasy music. If you ever needed adventurous fantasy music for your videos, I’d be more than happy to compose something for you. All my support from NZ!

[@betea1742]

One thing I want to say is that it's not always about making your protagonist suffer. You just can't have them suffer less than the characters around them. Otherwise it could really feel like plot armor is protecting them and making life easy simply because they are the protagonist. This of course is just a general tip and for certain stories (like comedies) it can be ignored or even completely flipped on its head.

[@FablestoneSeries]

Your protagonist doesn't have to struggle. They need to be interesting, have strong opinions, and strong motivations, but those don't necessarily also equate to struggles. Mary Poppins doesn't struggle. Sherlock Holmes doesn't struggle (besides a minor drug habit). It depends on what kind of story you are telling. James Bond doesn't struggle except with the odd ethical dilemma. There are examples of anti-heroes who are down right unlikable. Patrick Bateman in American Psycho for example is extremely unlikable. Or Lou Bloom in Nightcrawler. Or Howard Ratner in Uncut Gems. I worry that (especially) in YA fantasy new writers are pushing themselves to follow the Pixar formula of success and as a result many are beating the orphan trope to death, or as many call it now, the Batman trope. John Wick is an example of just how little it takes to make a character likable. It follows the "Save The Cat" strategy literally, and achieves a very likable character without much effort. I challenge writers, if you feel you are up to it, to write a character and make them likable without also giving them trauma. It is possible, I promise you! Paddington Bear is just trying to make sense of things and adapt to living in London. That's it. He's just trying to acclimate to something different. Sometimes that's enough.

[@SuperSalts]

Love the videos and ideas, but I would say that "suffering" isn't the root cause of why people root for them. It's potential for growth. The room for your protagonist to grow into a more capable/stronger/compelling person is a strong selling point for stories. I still like your ideas and they definitely make me think about my own story a bit more to make sure to keep the conflict/tension between them and the antagonist palpable. Keep up the great content!

[@Jed_Herne]

Interesting take! You bring up a good point - suffering per se is much less interesting than suffering as a result of a character struggling to grow

[@adronius147]

Wish Spider-Man writers would take note.

[@j.thomas6470]

As a reader I'm honestly annoyed at stories where everything that goes wrong is towards the MC. Like, if they are THAT unlucky, always have their wins compromised, and nothing ever goes the way they plan... then I start rooting for the villain to win because at least they are competent. Seriously, I'm so bored with the everything that can go wrong should go wrong and the MC can never have something lucky or go right for them. I don't relate to that. My husband and I are writing. We are giving the MC the worst possible thing we can think of to shake up his life, his world, his future (by maiming a warrior). Even with this suffering, a few things go right, go good. The goal is to show him progressing though his grief of what his life would have been and embracing the life he can have now. While showing both him and the reader this new life will be good. Not the same, but good, which needs good things to happen to him as he starts down that path. The problem isn't with the 'make the main character suffer' idea, it's with it being the ONLY thing available in novels. I'm burnt out, to the point I gave up reading. Obviously if everything goes right it's not worth reading, but everything going wrong is just as bad. It's too predictable. What can even be learned from a character who never has a legitimate win?

[@Zoinks3245]

💯

[@m.j.johnsonbooks7856]

I've never thought about suffering in such a calculated way. I love how I always get a dozen new ideas when watching these videos. My characters may not appreciate you as much though!

[@jsansamatic6933]

I make sure to put my characters on a pedestal, then I knock them down, I build them up higher to knock them down even lower

[@theresnothinghere1745]

"If you're protagonist is the ruler of the country, you can probably find away to develop an antagonist more powerful than them and hence there are more stakes" I feel this is tunneling on the idea of a direct antagonist too much. If you're protagonist runs a country you could definitely make the antagonist notably weaker but still have stakes by having the role of ruler play a part. Running a country is a responsibility that carries its own weight on the protagonist the antagonist doesn't need to be strong enough to overcome the country just skilled enough to bring risk to the position of the ruler. You don't even need a dedicated antagonist for this too having several antagonist that are each inividually less of an issue but as a whole (wether intentionally or unintentionally by the antagonist) pose a big risk to the protagonist governance (either by the resource cost to deal with them or by risking the protag lose favour with those in power) seems to be a fine way to introduce conflict and suffering and hence tension. An easy example is say the character is a monarch defending the land from a smaller nation waging for war. The protagonists land will clearly win but that's not the full picture. They may have to tear down their own villages to hold the fight in a more advantageous location without granting more resources to the antagonistic nation. This can then lead to down the line the MC's support base fracturing from a split support as maybe some of his base was from those torn down villages. This way there is tension the whole way as the MC's support base suffers cracks from antagonist that were clearly outmatched and builds mounting pressure on the MC losing the throne. The tension here arises from the nature of the MC's position because you don't need to even necessarily have an antagonist among those spliting from the MC's support base, all that's needed for this situation to have tension is for the MC's authority to be clearly weakened by the way they deal with the smaller nation throughout the war.

[@Avarn388]

All good tips. Actually I’ve been going through Red Rising( first trilogy) and Pierce Brown utilizes a lot of this for Darrow. In general my stance of adversity is that they need to facilitate character development. A trial is meaningless if it doesn’t lead to impact for a character or a story. A cliche but solid example is Aang jn Last Airbender. When learning Earthbending Aang struggles with the ability. It’s revealed that the opposite element of the avatar, for Aang it’s earth, they have the hardest time tapping into. Combined with Aang way of fighting which is indirectly, him learning Earthbending is less about mastering the power and more about him learning to shift his thinking and face his problems head on. In fact, it’s that mentality that sticks with him until the final season when he faces Ozai. In short, trials should showcase what a character’s problems are and how they can resolve them in a believable way without contrivances or deus ex Machina.

[@HuxleysShaggyDog]

Not sure how to say this but I've written someone who might have suffered too much and I can back it up.

[@Eaglewing747]

Does your main character suffer enough? Spider-Man writers: Never.

[@focusrelax8838]

5:44 he’s very good - yes-but/o-and/ yes-and, no-but. He takes a lot of what he is learning from Mary Robinette and Brandon Sanderson and makes a summery.

[@IridescentFalcon72]

I laughed when I saw this title because I probably make them suffer too much 😂

[@ErelMaor]

What you said explains to me what was the technique of Daniel Hecht, the writer of the book "The babel effect". The main character is going through so much, but in a way that is so connected to plot and the entire story. It just keeps me so deep into the story😊

[@Schloetz]

I'm a fan of the lighting changes for your background, very professional look

[@xxm1n0rxx]

I think I have the opposite problem, haha. I make my character suffer too much. Sometimes I feel like a bully as I write.

[@XVendevion]

I loved this video, it was really good.

[@joshuaparker7095]

A fantastic video! Definitely going to apply this to my own writing.

[@piszczello]

You've made some very good points that made me rethink a few plot points of my story.

[@Villain2007]

Another excellent video Jed. I've been watching through lots of your videos and really enjoying and learning them. Thanks and keep up the great work.

[@nickprocter1560]

Another brilliant video Jed. Having examples to help explain your points always works really well. The advice to align the protagonist's struggles with the overall theme is great.

[@Rolando_Jay]

Jed! Editing is next level! Thanks so much for all your great tips on writing. I genuinely learn so much and gain such a deeper understanding of story because of you. You just ignited a great idea for my next video!

[@oluisribeiroo]

I liked the video before watching, cuz the title is amazing. After watching, I confirmed the like, great theme! Some subjects may be questionable I think, base on the narrative decisions, but I loved it. PS.: If u posted more videos per week I would watch all of them. Greetings from Brazil!

[@jager1745]

Túrin Turambar is the best character to look at when talking about suffering

[@_Ashin_]

Fr, Guts as well

[@anthonywritesfantasy]

Maybe my favorite video of yours. Love how practical these ideas are.

[@Jed_Herne]

Thanks!

[@Takerofthehill]

Thanks for the videos! I really enjoy listening to the content while I'm working. Helps to keep my mind occupied and my imagination working on scenes and ideas. Keep em coming!

[@Jed_Herne]

Great to hear!

[@robinporter8481]

Some people have said I probably make my protagonists suffer too much...

[@Aelda69]

The main character in my book loses her arms (just above the elbow), loses her right leg, is impaled with what is basically a lightsaber (losing her right lung, liver, and heart), has to fight her friend to the death, and has to watch her friends and mentors die. If that's not enough, she was born of an omniscient universal force and has no parents (she does have a twin she is unaware of though).

[@greghannibal]

My protagonists suffer TOO much. My first book has him getting beaten down through the first...well, all of it.

[@elpatoempatado2404]

From the rough idea I have for the novel (there is only one arc actually developed and another in the works), I'd say that he does. He's a shut in who, along with one of his female classmates (plus the antagonist), is reincarnated in a magic world completely unknown to him, and his starting point is a bit below the average. He has a single duty: Protect her (B) until she returns to the original world. If she dies, he dies. One of his closest friends is kidnapped by monsters, and a few years later he's forced to kill him. He eventually falls for one of his friends (C), and they end up going out, and she does her best to him to break out of his shell. Sadly, he's forced to sit and watch as she's tortured and kidnapped. By this point, all the progress he had made was lost, and instead lost most of his emotions. Except for the hatred he felt towards the one who tortured the girl, of course. A year after this, he is dispatched to a city being attacked by a single, powerful monster, but all he finds is his old girlfriend, who was done destroying the whole city. Neither of them wants to fight, so they sit down to talk instead... Yes, she's killed by the other reinarnator with a sneak attack. He pretty much up snaps by this point. Some time later, they find the portal back to their world, and he shoves B into it. He kills the antagonist and all of his minions, and returns to the original world with a lot of wounds. Just to avenge C by annihilating B's existence in every single way possible. Of course, this is a super watered down (and incomplete) version of the plot I have, and there are a lot of details I had to skip. Sorry!

[@joshuastclairmusic]

Great topic! I love your points. I think I gave my protagonist enough shit in my book 😂 He got everything he ever wanted, but was so hollow inside - he gave up music for social status. What a disaster!

[@TeddyCrafter84]

The Story Grid by Shawn Coyne explains this really well too. It feels like a more 'scientific' way of explaining story, but it works well.

[@AbonZel3]

Love the video, but I disagree that the Joker is smarter and more well prepared than Batman. He is absolutely willing to go further though, and that's why he's a threat. I work security. The problem with playing on defense (Batman) is that you have to protect everywhere, all the time, and have plans in place for various types of attack. However, the attackers (Joker) can target a single area, at a single point in time, with a well thought out plan. The amount of resources defenders have to put forward is astronomical compared to attackers, depending on what we're talking about.

[@lisoak6504]

Can you do a video how to make character internal struggles meaningful and interesting?

[@FabbeNJ369]

I’m rewatching a lot of your videos right now, that’s why I’m commenting about 4 months late. What I wanted to say was, that while I do agree, a character doesn’t need suffering to be interesting, sure, it often helps, but it’s possible to make an interesting character without childhood trauma and such. With that said, the character I have in my current novel, called Bella, doesn’t have any trauma in the beginning, but under the story, she experiences her first real trauma/a lot of suffering. What starts as just a journey to get to a treasure, ends with a quest to get revenge on the creature that has killed Bella’s best friend as well as another ally. So in this novel, I kind of inserted the first suffering and such in the present instead of the past

[@Jack-gs6sd]

The bad modern fantasy version of this isn't to challenge the protagonist and their view of their world/self, but rather to give the character a built-in bad attitude/personality, and then every setback is instead a CONFIRMATION to their worldview. Less angst, more story!

[@Chibibushi]

What if you're writing in a style that follows multple characters I.E Seven Samurai but introduce the character that world conventually be considered the protagonist in the second chapter, this way they are kept more mysterious until you open up the story a bit more after the initial introductions of the characters? Would that seem like a bait and switch for the reader? Especially if the introductory chapters are short and don't slog on?

[@Chickenwings258]

So it would also be Useful, if the Character understands, that the world seems to be against him. Thus leads to him believing, that he has become the Bad, the Evil. Sorry for my bad english, it's not my first Language. But could it be used that way?

[@Bwuangch]

is killing my protagonist who was sick thier whole life off before the first chapter then having them reincanate in another world only to die from being born without enough heart chambers as a 3 year old then having them die as an infant 15 more times in the first 4 chapters so that they have a fear of death so horrible that they take 8 years to stop waiting to die again from some stupid illness they have and not even be able to accept their peaceful quite life in their new magical world ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@creepybantha1665]

Might wanna make him lactose intolerant just to be safe

[@Bwuangch]

@@creepybantha1665 satan liked this reply

[@BlyxzEdits]

I have an idea for what I will do to the Mc at the end of my book, I’ve thought about a lot of different set of consequences but only one stands out alot and that is killing the mc which I’ve taken into account and that’s prob how my book will end :P

[@Zoinks3245]

Killing the mc is often a bad idea, one that typically pisses readers off. It is ok to have an ending that doesn’t “stand out”. It’s ok to give your readers what they expected, as long as that’s what they wanted. It can be hard to feel fulfilled or find the purpose of the novel if the mc just dies at the end. It only works when the MC accomplished their need before dying, such as if a suicidal man’s goal was to save someone else’s life before he passed, then you killed him at the end. You could kill him off because he fulfilled his purpose, and your promise to the reader was fulfilled. Best of luck!

[@BlyxzEdits]

@@Zoinks3245 thank you for explaining it more briefly and giving me more exposure to the different ways I can use these elements. I have thought about my ending as my Mc will do this in order to save the people around him and in a last ditch effort use all his power to defeat the threat but will end up dying, or so the readers thought it will continue his story as being sent to some other realm and his journey back to his homeland in the second book. So I would like to hear your opinions on this little brief review of the story I have made. I will be waiting for your response, thank you again for explaining it more briefly to me.

[@Zoinks3245]

@@BlyxzEdits there is a lot you can do with that and it comes down to what you want to do. If I was writing the book, I’d probably tease that the MC isn’t actually dead. The reason is because readers rarely believe you when you fake kill off a character, they usually assume he or she is actually alive and will come back later. This is especially true with a main character. Someone will read your book, think ,”wow that’s crazy, he died”. And then 2 seconds later think, “there’s no way he actually is dead” and then they go to google and see if there is a second book coming, only to find out that there actually is another book coming, and then they will realize the MC is alive. All within the span of 30 seconds. The magic will be gone. Rather, personally I would tease that the main character is actually alive in the first book, so rather than the reader thinking, “did he actually die?”, they think, “what just happened? Where is the main character? You know what? I bet he is at X because of reason Y” this gives them more of an incentive to read book 2 imo. Really, there is no right or wrong answer. At the end of the day, you should write what you would want to read. And yes, it could work out well if done correctly because your showing the reader what the main character is willing to do and how far he is willing to go, which is especially great if this ties into his character arc, for example if he started the book being selfish. This is all just my opinion, good or bad, but I hope this helps!

[@5BBassist4Christ]

"You must make your protagonist suffer more" is good advise in some circumstances, but more often than not, the desire to make overly-sympathetic characters has ruined entire stories for me. A character's suffering needs to feel organic and natural. It must tie into the themes of the story and the character-arch of the character. Random ill-fortunes just for the sake of adding sympathy to the character makes the story come off as cheap and cliche; sometimes it feels more like emotional manipulation rather than compelling characterization. This is something I call Cinderella Syndrome, -where a character has a bunch of generic cliche hardships stacked on top of them with little to no relationship to the story. These hardships tend to be: orphan, abusive step family, dead parents, disproportionate treatment from piers/caretakers. I.E., -Cinderella. Instead, hardships should be used strategically, -tailored to that specific character. Annie has all the cliche hardships of Cinderella Syndrome, but her story is actually really good. In large parts, because Annie's story is about keeping an optimistic spirit and hope alive during the darkest of times. Her story is that the entire nation is in a deep depression and everybody is scared for the future, but this little orphan girl being exploited is a shining light in the darkness, and her optimism inspires hope in the leaders of the nation. And what is the payoff? We learn that her parents are dead, and the thing that kept her hopeful was all for naught. Except it wasn't. Her hope wasn't in vain, even though it wasn't fulfilled. For her hope inspired others, and even though it didn't get her what she desperately wanted, it still put her in an infinitely better place. Annie's suffering not only contributes emotional impact to the story, but they make her story. Make your protagonist suffer in a way that is personal to them, -the things which will break them more than anybody else. Don't have somebody afraid of heights fall into a sea of spider webs; make somebody who is afraid of spiders fall into a sea of spider webs.

[@BoneChillingPictures]

Not until they are a paraplegic

[@cosmicprison9819]

This video + female protagonist = high chance of the story featuring a human orang-utan

[@gachascripter644]

I...have questions???

[@cosmicprison9819]

@@gachascripter644 Orang-utans are apes with capital Rs. About one to two thirds of them are conceived this way.

[@santius0]

no

[@valentinaegorova-vg7tb]

Great! Very useful, extremely inspiring, truly motivating. The examples make your advice clear. MANY THANKS! BRAVO!!!