Don't Sleep On The WinWing F-16 EX! (Review)

The F-16 EX is an incredibly versatile grip / flight stick you can fly any plane with. The Orion2 base is a lot better than its predecessor and able to trade blows with the VirPil WarBRD and VKB Gunfighter bases. I compare it to the other F-16 stick on the market: the Thrustmaster Warthog. It's an outdated design that's sold around the same price no one should ever buy.
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[@WatchMysh]

Corrections: - More precise: Included are no center ARC cams and 3 different spring sets. The cams & springs kit is only required if you want to use other types of cams and/or dual springs. - I later adjusted height and angle of the stick on the rig - The grip is always called F-16EX. The extra module is the "shaker kit" (Thanks @yappydawg8985)

[@xFlowXxX]

Got mine one week ago and nothing included to change the feeling. It's kinda bad as a marshmallow

[@joelmulder]

Yes. Coming from almost a decade with the X55, the WinWing stuck and throttle I recently got absolutely blew me away. Absolutely worth the money!

[@WatchMysh]

Totally. I love my kit, too. :)

[@KernitTheFont]

Ok, my warthog is now going back to Amazon. Winwing ftw!

[@WatchMysh]

Good choice. :)

[@mortallychallenged1436]

I was close to buying one but then I noticed that I need something for the rudder function and lack the money to buy that also.

[@WatchMysh]

Yes, it's meant to be used together with pedals. If you only fly modern jets it's not a big deal, though. You don't really need precise rudder control there.

[@mortallychallenged1436]

@@WatchMysh I often fly propeller planes, sometimes Helicopters and sometimes play some space sim games, so the lack of a twist function is a deal breaker for me. The idea behind investing into a high end joystick was to buy one high quality metal stick that can serve as much applications as possible that is easily repairable or lasts pretty much forever. It seems the VKB Gladiators sticks are closer to that, except the mechanism is said to be not as smooth and it is plastic (metal feels cooler). At the moment VKB is sold out, maybe Winwing manages in that time to finally find a solution for the missing twist/z-axis module.

[@checkyoursix7401]

Thank you for your review. But a lot of people had Bad experiences with Winwing After-sales services which didnt want to manage issues with hardware under warranty 😠. Some hardware had mechinal issue (internal parts that break ONLY after 2-3 months of normal use 😢😠😤) but Winwing After-sales service reply that the they did thousands of tests before selling hardware. So issues come from customers who do not use the hadware in a normal way. So some people spent hundreds of euros in hardware which becomes unsuable only After a few months. Winwing had now Bad reputation around me (french DCS ans BMS community)

[@WatchMysh]

@@checkyoursix7401 Thanks :) I don't know a lot, but some people with bad experiences. I'd call the WinWing service mid level compared to Virpil or VKB. In Germany Winwing has to prove it's NOT a factory failure failure within the first 6 months (which is almost impossible). So it's not a problem here.

[@slandshark]

I'm considering the Orion 2 HOTAS MAX combo, which is the Orion 2 throttle base, 15EX II throttle grip, Orion 2 joystick base, and 16EX joystick grip (with shaker kit). It's for $520USD(plus tax). Is that a decent price for the combo or do they often go on sale for more? Upgrading from my very old CH Products HOTAS setup. So this would be a huge upgrade.

[@WatchMysh]

That really is a huge upgrade. Price is ok I guess - it's from the WinWing site? I'm not aware of any sales at the moment. There aren't many usually.

[@slandshark]

@@WatchMysh Thanks, yeah that's direct from the winwing site. Adding each part individually it seems like it's be $150 or more..so the combo seems like a good deal I am just not familiar with their pricing or sales history, etc. The store page itself says $520 marked down from $900 (which looks like a marketing strategy since the parts don't all add up to $900). Anyway, cool video as it helped me learn a lot more about the grip! Thank you! EDIT: Just went through the checkout/shipping process and they charge $90 for shipping...yikes!

[@WatchMysh]

@@slandshark Are you in the correct store? Shipping is free in the EU for example. Make sure you're not in the "global store" if you're in the US. I'm not familiar with US pricing so I can't help you there. Need to check and compare first and I'm working rn. :(

[@slandshark]

@@WatchMysh Yeah you are right. It didn't save my location. Still kind of a weird website. It says available in the US, but going through checkout at the end it says pre-order only. So I've saved a pre-order, but no idea when it's coming out. Specifically the Orion2 HOTAS MAX combo.

[@WatchMysh]

@@slandshark They're restocking on a regular basis. You can ask the support to get a rough estimate. :)

[@delayed_control]

You should probably angle the stick to the left when using it in center position. Doesn't the extension have the option to attach it at different angles?

[@WatchMysh]

Thanks for the Input! It does and I have already angled it bit. :) footage is old. The extension is rotatable 360°.

[@ameerr.7614]

Bro any news on the z axis modular addon?? Did they restock it alread?? this is the only thing holding me from buying this flight stick, because I don't want to use peddles as I work as a flight instructor and am always on the move to different classes and schools... Been considering virpil's alpha prime as well... What are your 2 cents bro? What do you recommend... p.s: Excellent content!👌🏻

[@WatchMysh]

Thanks :) The twist module is eol and will not get restocked as I heard recently. The Alpha Prime is an awesome stick of course. I'd also check out the Gunfighter Ultimate MKIV from VKB. It has twist, too, and is more of a fighter jet stick than the Alpha Prime.

[@ameerr.7614]

@@WatchMysh thanks for the reply, wow how did I sleep on the vkb gunfighter... I was so torn between virpils alpha prime and winwing's orion 2... Can you confirm it is better in terms of quality and functionality than the Orion 2? Is it better than alpha prime (I didn't like the space themed design of that stick anyway, but was willing to swallo that if I had no choice, espicaly because of the built in twist functionality)

[@WatchMysh]

@@ameerr.7614 The Gunfighter is a high end grip and gimbal. "better" is relative but its construction and materials used is another step up from the Orion. Price is also double (the GF Ultimate is made of metal). I'd say its the best multi purpose fighter grip out there.

[@ameerr.7614]

@@WatchMysh thanks for the detailed answer bruh, glad to be a subscriber! Seems the gunftighter it is 🤙🏻

[@WatchMysh]

@@ameerr.7614 You're welcome! :) Make sure to share my stuff around if you want to give sth back. Every single view helps! You can also donate to the channel via Ko-Fi (link in the description).

[@theack777]

I have this joystick from winwing with the vibration kit added and I'm having lots of problems with it like it always connects and reconnects on its own when I'm not even using it through windows on a constant basis every day. When it does that it still recognizes the base so I have X and Y axis but none of the buttons work on it and I have to take the joystick apart and unplug everything and move the wires around and then do it again. Also it has no x-axis and not everybody can use foot pedals like I cannot so I hate it because on their website the x-axis adapter you can buy has been out of stock for over a year . Some advice, don't buy this go with virpil

[@WatchMysh]

Every device can have an error and what you're experiencing isnt the norm. Why don't you replace the unit? Did you contact Winwing support? Also I guess you mean the Z-axis adapter? It's common knowledge that the F16EX doesnt twist and the adapter has been out of stock for a year now. Less parts, cheaper than Virpil. If you needed twist, why didn't you buy sth else in the first place?

[@new5057]

Pity they dont make a left handed version. Then I might actally buy winwing.

[@WatchMysh]

Yes, a left handed grip would be great. They don't have any.

[@Ulitochnik]

why is heavy grip in thrustmaster a con? isn't it more realistic to have a heavy feeling than a lighter one

[@WatchMysh]

No. It gets top heavy and most real grips are lightweight as well. They are mostly made of resin. A top heavy stick impairs fine control and is more exhaustive to operate over longer stretches of time.

[@Ulitochnik]

@@WatchMysh oh i see thanks

[@WatchMysh]

@@Ulitochnik np :) If there's anything else just ask.

[@jamesmcd71]

You have to be honest with yourself when you start down your DCS path. It's not an inexpensive game. And every time you try to save money you will hurt your dcs experience. You will eventually spend the money for a top quality HOTAS. So just don't wast the time and money messing with the cheap stuff.

[@slandshark]

I started off with a CH Products HOTAS. Considering selling it now and getting the winwing combo...for like 4 times the price. lol

[@BlackRabbitDigitalP]

I've noticed the pedals are significantly higher than the Warthog so as away to do a gradual upgrade, do you reckon you can mix the 2? Joystick and Throttle of the WinWing and the Rudders from Warthog? Do these kind of things cause compatibility issues? Cheers

[@WatchMysh]

Sure. They don't care about each other. You just need to run two different applications for calibration / programming. Do you refer to the TM pendular rudders?

[@BlackRabbitDigitalP]

@@WatchMysh The Thrustmaster TFRP (T.Flight Rudder Pedals) which comes at around £100, while the Orion can go up to £400. The reason I am asking is for the rolling manoeuvres which are usually present on a twist of the joystick (in my case is for space sims, but I always wanted to get back into air combat sims too).

[@WatchMysh]

@@BlackRabbitDigitalP oh, ok. Yes, the rudders you mentioned are a way cheaper but also a lot worse in build quality and precision. Keep that in mind.

[@BlackRabbitDigitalP]

@@WatchMysh For sure, but the Stick + Throttle, can set you back for £500, so rather than reaching the £900 with the Orion pedals, one could go for the cheaper ones at least at first. But I am still hoping and searching for someone telling me that you will be fine without the pedals even in a space sims :) I just think it must be rather hard to have precise control lateral + roll movements in the same instance (some people uses a switch to cycle between both modes on the same stick meaning you can only do one or the other).

[@WatchMysh]

@@BlackRabbitDigitalP without twist you'll have a hard time in space sims. Why don't you go for dual Gladiators? Would be an option, too. :) Did you watch my 2023 HOTAS overview?

[@blacknass1943]

amazing !! i tak it ! :)

[@niklas5886]

Würde es sinn machen einen orion 2 alleine zu kaufen und ein Schubregler nachzukaufen? Ich habe aktuell ein Thrustmaster Hotas X und möchte upgraden. Ich könnte den Schubregler noch für ne Weile benutzen nur der Stick nervt weil der nicht gerade präzise ist. Würde dann wohl noch Ruder dazu kaufen aber eher im billig segment ca.100€. Wollte anfangs ein Tobii Eyetracker 5 kaufen aber ich denke der kann warten.

[@WatchMysh]

Klar. Hab ich auch mal ähnlich gemacht. Habe den X52 Throttle weiter genutzt mit meinem Virpil Stick. Statt dem Tobii kannst auch mal nach dem Trackhat V2 gucken. Kostet die Hälfte und tracked auch super. Außer du brauchst das eye tracking explizit. Ruder würde ich dann die Logitech nehmen, den center detent rausnehmen und die Mechanik neu fetten. Das ist ganz brauchbar und bezahlbar.

[@niklas5886]

dann mach ich das, vielen Dank :D

[@WatchMysh]

@@niklas5886 Gern geschehen :)

[@dunbar555]

your stick is installed too low between your knees

[@WatchMysh]

Yeah, was too low. But with the lifted base I could extend the extension completely now without interference from the seat's cut out. I also mounted the grip at a 15 degree angle.

[@daiken2980]

I just buy f-16 joystick and having rly bad time setting it up. Do you have config file with settings for war thunder ?

[@WatchMysh]

Sorry can't help. I don't play WT with Hotas controls. :(

[@Tango-17]

Big mistake to get this for War Thunder buddy😂

[@sascha9213]

Sadly us lefties sadly cant get it.... Guess ill have to get Voprils constellation Alpha L with Warbrd base even thought its double the price 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@WatchMysh]

Yes. There's no left handed version of the F16 grip anywhere. Leaves you with the Ursa Minor, the Gladiator or the Constellation Alpha.

[@yellowboeing6030]

Well, there’s no left handed F-16…Just learn to operate right handed.

[@baronvonrichthofen2021]

I understood that WW is one of few, if not the only, brand that does not include additional cams and springs. That’s a bit cheap from their side, considering it’s a Chinese product and it costs next to nothing over there. My findings, having used it for a while, is that it’s too sloppy in the center. This means if it hangs forward, it actually deflects control surfaces. You can calibrate it out, but still, it affects autopilot controls, and could affect INS alignment. I agree with the stick on the shaker. It’s too far, and I have big hands. I also agree the stroke is too long, even a without the extension rod. It makes big agressieve deflections quite tiring and it can cause wrist problems. The flip lever that comes with the shaker I don’t understand. I don’t use it, especially since it actually is set up by WW to function as a multi switch lever, but without indents to know which point is being switched. I also think the collar wheel and retaining screw are a bit meh. The overall construction is good, but since it’s not meant to be installed in a rotated position like for center sticks, the moulding could have been shaped accordingly, because the retaining screw is a bit of a weak link. If you rotate it vigorously, it will come loose

[@WatchMysh]

I don't have the centering issues but after some months of flying: I thing we could use some stiffer springs for use with an extension. Without an extension eveything is fine in my case.

[@Drax658]

I've watched many of Your videos and now I'm struggeling what to buy. I've pre ordered winwing Orion 2 Metal HOTAS, but now I'm thinking about VKB STECS + VKB Gladiator NXT or VKB Gladiator NXT and another one with Omni Throttle. I want it mostly for space sims but i would like to try MS Flight Simulator. What will You recommend? I like the metal construction of WinWing but I'm concerned about not having a Z axis on stick and those 3 way switches (I'm not sure how they would work in Elite Dangerous for example). With VKB Gladiator NXT with Omni Throttle I like to have 6 degrees of freedom but it kinda don't fit regular planes. With the STECS I like the throttle but an idiot inside me tells that VKB Gladiator NXT looks worse than than the WinWig stick. Can You give some thoughts on this, I'm sure You had an opportunity to try all of them and You have more experience.

[@WatchMysh]

Hey! :) If you're into space sims and you want the feeling of the Orion's gimbal there's no way around a Constellation Alpha and a WarBRD-D gimbal from Virpil. The Gladiator's gimbal is fine, but still inferior to a cam/spring gimbal like the Orion2, WarBRD or the VKB Gunfighter bases. An option would be to put Gladiator's on Gunfighter bases. It's not as expensive as the Deltas and would probably work well for space sims. I think HOSAS works better than HOTAS in that genre. So maybe an option would be: Gladiator grip + Gunfighter base right. Gladiator omni plus Gunfighter base left and a STECS for flight sims. Doesn't completely break the bank and is a good all purpose setup. Can be upgraded with better grips in the future. The Orion2/F16EX is more or less a pure flight sim setup. It doesn't have build in twist. So your options are Virpil or VKB. Problem is that the Omni adapter isn't compatible with the new GF IV base it seems. Gotta ask VKB what to do in that regard. Check their discord! They'll answer quickly and will help.

[@Drax658]

@@WatchMysh Thank You very much for answear. I bought the STECS throttle from VKB and Gladiator NXT Evo premium for the stick. I heared they are good for the beginners. I told to myself that if I get into sims, I can always uprage to Gunfighter. 🙂

[@Tom-qf3mq]

Outstanding review, so much so that it’s convinced to purchase it. Thank you so much for taking the time to create and upload it, it’s greatly appreciated.

[@WatchMysh]

@@Tom-qf3mq thanks for the appreciation! :) Have fun with the new stick!

[@Snoozefry]

Hey! I really liked the review and I plan on buying this set. On the website the dimensions seem to differ from the stick with the shaker kit and it without the shaker kit so I don’t know what to believe. Could you please tell me the depth and width of the joystick please?

[@yappydawg8985]

A correction to your title. As has been made very clear to me by Win Wing customer support, this is not the F16EX grip. The F16EX grip does NOT have the extra side buttons. The grip with the side buttons is called the "shaker kit". Customer support was very adamant with me that those extra buttons on the left side are not part of the F16EX

[@WatchMysh]

Oh that's interesting thanks. I'll add that to the sticky. Thumbnail still is correct though because I review it with the shaker kit module and the grip is called F16EX. There is no dedicated grip called "shaker kit". I also mention this in the video. //edit: added. Thanks again!

[@yappydawg8985]

No problem. I think the older Orion 1 system used to call the version with the extra buttons the EX but now they don't. Its very confusing as is a lot about their website. Nice product though. @@WatchMysh

[@WatchMysh]

@@yappydawg8985 yes, the website content is all over the place and quite confusing. They should rework the whole online shop. Guess you'd immediately see the effect in site metrics and sales.

[@mag-7897]

so sad that in brazil we cant buy one of these for less than R$6.000 Reais, can you guys imagine having to pay 6 thousand dollars for that? whille the warthog is ""only"" 3 thousand, brazil is reeeeally fucked up

[@WatchMysh]

holy crap

[@ph45fs]

Sem fazer o L tinha chance de pagar só 3k agr já era 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@mag-7897]

@@ph45fs reza a lenda que na época "boa" a dois anos atrás também tava uma bosta Dois políticos merdas, lula e bolsonaro

[@pvdude17]

Any1 have any controls set up for warthunder for this?

[@blacknass1943]

nice _:)

[@ninegravity2275]

Best F-16 EX Review!

[@WatchMysh]

Thanks :)

[@ElliotSmh]

do you happen to have a discord? i have a few questions regarding winwing if you dont mind.

[@WatchMysh]

No sorry, I don't have a Mysh discord server. But maybe I'll make one? :) Gotta ask the community if they want one. Until then just ask away here - I'll answer to the best of my abilities.

[@ElliotSmh]

@@WatchMysh meant more of a discord account where i can dm you lol. but i assume your german, how was the shipping? does it have any play in the center? is the customer service of winwing any good? how do winwing products compare to virpil and vkb?

[@WatchMysh]

@@ElliotSmh Shipping is free in the EU and took around two weeks in my case, centering is what you would expect from no center cams, it's precise and doesn't require a noticeable dead zone. Can't tell you anything about the customer service, though. Didn't need it to this point and I asked my questions directly to their creator support guy. I'd say the WinWing stuff compares very well to Virpil. The new WarBRD base probably has sturdier clutches adjustable from the outside. I don't have a high end VKB grip so I can't give you my own opinion here. But judging from what people say the F16EX is also more or less on the same level as a Gunfighter grip with the exception of the plasticy shaker kit.

[@Nellus360]

Hi and thanks for review, i've a question for you. Is the ministick on shaker kit analogic? can i use it (momentarily, Z-axis module is not available) for yaw or roll?

[@WatchMysh]

I used it as I substitute while waiting for my pedals. It's good enough for jets and okay for warbirds. Z-axis module hasn't been in stock for almost forever. I'd ask the support if I were you whether they ditched it altogether or will restock someday.

[@Nellus360]

@@WatchMysh Thank you so much, your support was really helpful. I'm buying it, it's on a big discount now.

[@WatchMysh]

@@Nellus360 you're welcome! Remember to get the cam kit if you want/need clutches.

[@deividdi5779]

​@@Nellus360hi how much was the price for stick/base? Thanks!

[@Nellus360]

@@deividdi5779 i don't know the single price of stick, I've buyed a bundle with throttle. 345 eur

[@BoomClips]

Does it come with the base included?

[@WatchMysh]

You can purchase a "combo" on the WinWing website. As with most premium solutions the base usually supports several grips, so it's purchased separetely.

[@andrewk2857]

Looks good but I wouldn't want to get hit by import taxes and duty and with no realistic warranty.

[@WatchMysh]

If you're in the EU everything is fine. Same goes for the US, I'm quite sure WinWing also has an US warehouse now from where you can order directly. Nothing will get shipped from china anymore and import taxes have already been paid. WinWing offers the same warranties as any other business that wants to stay in business.

[@andrewk2857]

In the UK I don't think they have a presence here and I wouldn't want to have to ship back to mainland Europe or China in the case of a warranty issue.

[@WatchMysh]

@@andrewk2857 Ok... UK really could be a bit problematic when it comes to taxes and shipping. That's a bummer because price to performance no one beats WinWing at the moment. Warranty in general shouldn't be a problem, though. Or does Winwing have a differing EULA for UK?

[@cammy9r]

@@andrewk2857 They do have a UK warehouse.

[@Archenuh]

Such a shame that the Z-axis is NEVER on stock. Basically when/if you ever want to purchase this Stick, you definitely will need to buy separate rudder pedals.

[@WatchMysh]

I also have never seen it in the store. But it's better to buy a stick with integrated twist if you don't want pedalys.

[@algroyp3r]

I strongly recommend getting cheap rudder pedals if you're dropping that kind of money on your rig. $50 for a twist axis vs $150 for good enough pedals with toe brakes. The Logitech pedals are ok. Unless you want the Z-axis for something like space sims?

[@WatchMysh]

@@algroyp3r Yes, totally worth it. The Logitech's are the minimum viable entry point in my opinion. I dislike them with a passion lol... But they are ok as long as you get them for cheap - and do the center detent mod.

[@algroyp3r]

@@WatchMysh I don't mind the center detent that much, might try to remove it. I've ordered nyogel to grease them, might help with sticktion. The problem is, the next level up in rudders costs over $300... hard to justify for me. Other options in a reasonable price don't have toe brakes...

[@WatchMysh]

@@algroyp3r I couldn't stand the center detent. It's much better without. The nyogel is a good idea, too! I used silicone spray as I still had the Saitek rudder. The next level up would be the Turtle Beach which is overprized at 300 in my opinion. Dropped below 250€ in the EU at the moment. 220-230 is reasonable. I'm thinking about testing out the VKB mkV rudders. Toe brakes can be simulated via axis modifier. Wonder if that works as well as they advertise it. On the other hand I seldom use toe brakes and rudder at the same time... well... Maybe we'll see if I get the chance to test them.

[@benfennell6842]

Not mentioning the horrifically shameful quality of the shaker kit addon is a shame. It truly lets the rest of the product down as it features possibly the most awful feeling joystick i've ever felt in my life, with that weird plastic notchy square hole that it rides in. Otherwise an amazing bit of kit.

[@WatchMysh]

I mention the plastic casing and that it's not on par with the rest of the kit. The stick and hat are quite good in my opinion. Mini stick "feeling" is quite subjective... so I get that others might not like it. It's far from horrible though.

[@benfennell6842]

​@@WatchMysh It's quite literally a round peg in a square hole, and the moulding line is on the center line of the axis, so as you move the stick around you can feel SIX seperate places where it want to get stuck. The actual movement of the stick is fine, the design is just awfully thought out.

[@WatchMysh]

@@benfennell6842 yes, the square is crappy. Nevertheless I used the stick for slew control and tested it for rudder and it all worked fine. The construction might be bad for a dedicated controller like a gamepad but for a joystick grip it's okay in my opinion. I wonder why they didn't just use the same stick the F15 grips and probably the F18 grips come with though. It's much better.

[@isaiahaguilera7710]

The addon is fine, definitely not up to tack with the rest of stick but not as dramatic & deal breaking as you are making it out to be lol.