Dopamine Jackpot! Sapolsky on the Science of Pleasure

Complete video at: fora.tv/2011/02...
Robert Sapolsky, professor of biology and neurology at Stanford University, compares dopamine levels in monkeys and humans. Sapolsky argues that in both, "Dopamine is not about pleasure, it's about the anticipation of pleasure. It's about the pursuit of happiness." Unlike monkeys however, humans "keep those dopamine levels up for decades and decades waiting for the reward."
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Dr. Robert Sapolsky is a professor of Biology and Neurology at Stanford University. He is a research associate at the National Museums of Kenya. Dr. Sapolsky is the author of several works of nonfiction, including A Primate's Memoir, The Trouble with Testosterone, Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers and Monkeyluv: And Other Essays on Our Lives as Animals.

[@nickirhododendron7569]

The key to lasting happiness: Psychological empowerment, the feeling of being needed, the feeling of connecting with others genuinely, giving help to others, feeling loved and respected, and most of all a feeling of having conquered an internal psychological obstacle.

[@sednafloating7027]

meth

[@colourheists5587]

thanks

[@stevedave5748]

Feelings lie

[@pekoonkoon]

the feeling of being needed is counterproductive. You expect others to "need you" for a certain amount of activities, tasks, that you might not truly enjoy at all, and you just do it because "You must feel needed"... "you must belong somewhere"... "You must connect with others"... "You must help others" To the detriment of your own physical and/or mental health, finances, peace of mind, hope in mankind, etc..

[@user-jc1ok5fl9i]

Did we just watch the same video? He just pointed out that altruism is ultimately a pleasure seeking behaviour, that when we think we're denying ourselves something we're actually high on dopamine. If you feel empowered by someone needing you then you'll engineer it so they'll always need you.

[@woodeniron9999]

Perfect distinction: Dopamine is about belief in the reward.

[@chickwithboots]

NateTalksToYou sent me here!

[@aweinfinitebliss]

Explains perfectly why traders over trade, over leverage and do everything else that will result their accounts being blown. The pursuit of pleasure rather than happiness, success itself. Thus the reason we are led to play gambling in the markets instead of being focused and strategic in achieving profitability.

[@4andronicus]

I love it when science works to help us master our own clouded inner-space. This guys work is awesome.

[@fouro]

@AapoJoki He's not making fun of Religion. Heck, he's paraphrasing faith-speak: "He's gone on to his reward." He's pointing out that we are so reward-focused that we can strive, and feel good about that striving (keeping the dopamine flowing) even when that payoff is abstract or invisible - i.e.: after death, wherein no one has yet come back to say: "It's true. I have pictures, an affadavit and a dinner menu! Keep the faith, your just reward is in the hereafter."

[@Someone-cd7yi]

This is why it's often so hard for people with ADHD to be motivated and to start doing something and why stimulating medication like Adderall and Methylphenidate helps. They have a lack of dopamine and the medication elevates the dopamine.

[@user-qp4th3ij7z]

I think it’s more to do with the dopamine receptors not receiving the signals correctly, rather than there necessarily being less dopamine, but it’s the same effect either way.

[@ExistentialistDasein]

"There's no monkey out there who's willing to lever-press all the time because of what Saint Peters..." Sapolsky is amaziiing:D

[@Dunning.Kruger]

He has extra brain hidden in the beard...

[@cottontop9276]

@Kevinspieltspiele Just wait till he gets his Payot finger roll going and What up wit dat is the question of the day!! Lol

[@mariehatton6268]

I agree.

[@hairdie]

Brain is overrated...

[@gameoflife4434]

Lessons - you can practically play with behaviour, reward, dopamine, suprize elements etc. To shape a awesome life. Gratitude for the teaching.

[@JamesCarmichael]

If your a smoker try this. Wake up in the morning and go as long as you can without a cigarette. Literally go until you can't hold on anymore. Go to the shop (run if you have to) and buy a pack. Walk outside the shop and observe your feelings. You'll notice the stress has gone away quite a bit without even having the cigarette.

[@nickjohn2051]

James Carmichael Now my mind is blown. I literally feeling intense crave if I dont have my pack. But after that, it went away after buying some eventhough im not using it.

[@someonesomeone25]

Works same for booze

[@dissdad8744]

It's known that drugs and porn can lead to an excessive release of dopamine, that will eventually wear down the dopamine receptors. Is this why drugs and addictive behaviours have trouble maintaining motivation for everyday life activities and problems following long-term goals?

[@wtfhowbizarre1946]

who doesn't love sweet lovely porn?

[@jimmyjohn3586]

@@wtfhowbizarre1946 pornstars

[@poika22]

"Is this why...?" Yes.

[@Patrick_Simon_Sanad]

Exactly...

[@uvwuvw-ol3fg]

@@wtfhowbizarre1946 Since in a current market driven human society these things are mostly done in a clandestine way (concealed mating, Cooperation Maintenance Hypothesis), then demand for porn leads to higtened dopamine realise. Not sure about pan paniscus (bonobo) society were these things are used for same sex prosociality and playful group bonding regardless of age. Seems like agricultural/pastoral revolution also made humans think in terms of endless hope for the better future due yields and dependence on seasons (change in epigenetic/genetic expression in similar way to drug users).

[@niccadoodles]

this shows why people play the Lotto and believe they have a chance. Free dopamine!

[@yushamush9849]

free for a fee

[@richardmalone3172]

Yes, so true. There are many people who, after the draw, don't immediately check their ticket. Why? Because they can really get their moneys worth of dopamine from that one ticket. It's not quite like delayed gratification. For example, children may save their dessert till the others have finished. But they are assured of getting their dessert. The lotto player is assured of nothing and mathematically will almost certainly be disappointed. At least until they buy the next ticket.

[@xsuploader]

@Zzzz so what? Its not likely to be you so you are throwing away money in the case of most people

[@poika22]

@pepsicola Exactly. People play the lottery because of the excitement they get from the POSSIBILITY of winning and the pleasure they get from fantasizing what they would do with the money, knowing it technically might come true very soon so it's more "real" than just regular daydreaming. They pay a 1€ fee for happy thoughts. Nobody thinks the lottery is a sound investment even though that's the strawman people always attack. No one would criticize a person for paying 10€ a month to watch Netflix and have happy thoughts that way but as soon as it's the lottery the graphs and charts about odds come out. People in general don't live constantly optimizing their finances.

[@janosk8392]

I enjoy lotto with the prospect only of winning when I get around to buying a ticket. Cheap and fruitful, I like cheating the exploiters.

[@WyattCayer]

It's like making drugs of pleasure illegal makes them more desirable. The uncertainty of having them makes people want them even more.

[@Subs1338]

This blew my world. These 5 minute video explains sooooooooooooooooo much. I need a week of to think and put things together

[@Darknight526]

10 years later....?

[@raf5710]

@@Darknight526 He's the CEO of a fortune 500 company, I know him personally, inane growth.

[@glacialimpala]

Ok so in some cases when 'depression' is triggered by an unfortunate event, that person doesn't look forward to any rewards (since the event cannot be undone, i.e. someone died) so without that dopamine rise there is no incentive to do chores, go to work and perform other stuff, which in turn classifies them as 'depressed' since that's a recognized behavior for depressed people. It also explains why depression most often can be alleviated by a shift in mindset, or by using psychedelic drugs. You need only one reward to look forward to for the dopamine to rise.

[@mozo73]

@MajorObvious He did not do away with the uniqueness of human behavior at all. What he said was that humans are unique in that they can continue their dopamine levels (expectant gratification), towards a conceptualized reward ("after"-life), independent of an actual reward (UNLIKE his test subjects). This creates a problem, in that there is a real difference between his TEST subjects, and his general conclusion about ALL subjects(which is the extrapolation).... B.t.w, philosophy NOT religion.

[@sohit326]

Read his book "Behave: The Biology of Humans at Our Best and Worst" such an amazing book👍👍

[@christo930]

@tmafkap Yep. You know what I thought was neat about this speech (I watched the whole thing at FORA)? At the end he asked for questions and for about 30 seconds or so, nobody asked any questions and there was just silence. Then, once *somebody* finally asked a question, it was as if a light went on and the group got *permission* to ask questions and then for nearly 30 minutes there were constant questions. Our herd mentality is really powerful, even a bunch of professors.

[@NobodyUR]

So if it's about the anticipation why do addicts have damaged dopamine receptors. If it was only anticipation then the thought of getting clean would replace that anticipation of reward of the euphoria, It's part that's true that's why placebos work on some folks but it's not across the board explanation

[@MauricioBerrizbeitia]

Does anyone know where the second study he references comes from? The one about dopamine spiking when the monkey gets reward 50% of the time. I want to cite it for a school project.

[@coreycox2345]

Mind blown. I can think of so many concrete anecdotal examples of this. I wondered earlier today if, conversely intemittant negative stimuli is more powerful than predictbility.

[@M1thotyn]

Wow, I cant help but to think about the biochemical imbalance hypothesis for mental disorders when I listen to this. I think I need to go back and read Robert Whitaker's 'Anatomy of An Epidemic' again and pay closer attention this time.

[@DearProfessorRF]

I wish the public listen more to this kind of serious educators and professionals in their fields instead of so many charlatans with KZbin channels and podcasts and blogs, etc.

[@osheabailey]

The content in this video suggests that the 'pursuit of happiness' will make us happier, in a way, than the actual happiness, thing, or action that we perceive to make us happy. Which is something that I had no idea about. I Iove science

[@naughteedesign]

ever enjoyed the planning and anticipation of a holiday more than the holiday...

[@jameslam2491]

+naughteedesign good example.

[@destroya3303]

Dopamine is there to get the animal to pay attention and have energy to do what needs to be done.

[@robw2327]

This is where our thinking frontal lobe comes in to make up Gods, and then believe it.

[@destroya3303]

Rob W You and this anti-God thing. Not really relevant to the dopamine discussion.

[@robw2327]

Des Troya God belief is an addiction just like gambling.

[@poika22]

@@robw2327 Except religious people have been shown in countless studies to live happier lives on average than non-religious people, so it's not really comparable to gambling, drug, porn or any other addiction which tend to correlate with the opposite.

[@Outthinkingparkinsons]

Very interesting indeed... does this explain why dopamine agonist class of drugs makes compulsive behaviors worse? Also, how can we pragmatically apply this knowledge to help people with Parkinson's Disease?

[@deanrao4805]

This is the secret behind the "production bonuses" that are constantly dangled before us. Not this month, unfortunately. But maybe next month if you step it up.

[@DonDubin]

This explains why the adhd struggles with task initiation.

[@stahpitt8531]

That beard is brilliant.

[@Opeth1991]

Every thing about Spolsky is genius, he's just genius-in-action 😂❤

[@manudasmd]

oh this guy is amazing. his speech reflects his intelligence

[@frankenboston]

has everything to do with both, or none at all, that's what hope is, attributed to a faith in something that cannot be explained in a simple math equation , protons, electrons, ions etc. have more sense than that. they move with intelligence and people can co-create with this energy. i speak it forth, i choose to think it, and give action to it. takes the same amount of energy to think opposite of that, and that person is also correct, they get in return what they project outwards from the mind

[@necropartysohawt]

Ok, but how do I switch from wanting dopamine now to getting it in the long term, so I can achieve all my goals, ambitions and stuff?

[@KristianGerard]

“ maybe “ is addictive ( dopamine goes up dopamine/ uncertainty )

[@ridealone7933]

Now take this lecture and empathize with a person who has ADHD. When a person with ADHD hears that what is unique about humans is our ability to keep Dopamine levels high for very long periods, it increases their depression and anxiety, because of not being able to do that as well.

[@danielblais1839]

Further, that person was a bachelor of arts student no longer pursuing a PhD, where the 'maybe' reward for the work they've done (getting a job in their field) is practically completely taken out of the equation.

[@micheal2458]

Watching this, I can't help but think ADHD affects dopamine levels. Not only can I not do things for the future, I can barely do things for the present. The whole goal motivation thing just doesn't work right for me.

[@Alacritous]

This video is describing the dopamine response during learned behavior. What happened to the dopamine levels the very first time it was rewarded for the behavior?

[@stevedoetsch]

Yes, I would like to see the transition in dopamine during the learning process; that's key.

[@motivationwithin4057]

Watching this with adhd made me feel hopeless 😂

[@whatoneneedselm203]

the uncertainty of the reward

[@phantomcreamer]

I wish the graph was in more detail. Does dopamine begin to decrease at the moment the animal begins working? Also if there is no signal, but only a reward that appears randomly, how do the trends associated with dopamine during the reward phase contrast between them?

[@Jimmyjewels]

this is the first good video from Fora in months if not years

[@CatalinNicanov]

Did he just described Hope?

[@LurkingCrassZero]

More like neediness. Which I see as deeply negative.

[@notreubensandwich]

Nah its hope. food is a need, is it negative?

[@SanoKei]

Strangely I think we all subconsciously know this and we take risks according to probabilities to try to receive that reward. For instance insurance

[@siwardhawadi9561]

Sapolskyyy! ❤❤ love and try to watch each and every one of your lectures 😍❤

[@ryanholland7101]

As I understood it, 50% gets the highest dopamine response; 25% and 75% get the exact same response as one another. They both get less of a response than 50% does.

[@billschlafly4107]

Units of measure on the y axis would be nice.

[@nickjohn2051]

Bill Schlafly That Y axis is the tricky part. Some level of dopamine could be high to another person. That is why parkinson disease and anti psychotic medicine works by changing the dopamine level. Too low dopamine you get trembling and shakiness. Too high dopamine you get anxiety, paranoia, delusion and hallucination. So pick your drug.

[@cyphi1]

@phantomcreamer looks like the decrease is before the work starts...the anticipation is slightly deadened by the realization that work must be performed to get the reward. Sadly enough - that's often my de-motivator.

[@globalchaos1984]

Epic beard significantly strengthens his message.

[@rjtkoh]

Is there more to this, I want to see the full talk

[@frankenboston]

their are spirits and emotions and things in and around this world, our world, that cannot be explained with plain logic, looking at nature teaches us this fact. their is somthing greater than ourselves that is part of ourselves, because i am not a 2 fold being ,, i'm 3 fold. science proves that with todays technology. it's not just an opinion, it is a fact, a fact with no definite conclusions to it either.

[@rogerhayes6258]

isn't it amazing how one small change in a concept can change 50 years of thinking...?

[@cindyski4413]

Reminds me when I went gambling, I was so alert and by the end of the night, addicted.

[@RCmies]

So if I choose a risky career like a music producer, my dopamine levels will be through the roof while I'm making the music and getting ready to release an album? Because I would either end up on the street and no one likes my music or get millions of fans.

[@SevenSixTwoNato]

Interesting conclusion, indeed. And likewise, it's fascinating to find how religions can be used as an incentive in this way.

[@Noobener]

Would the relative no reinforcement count as Negative Punishment ?

[@fouro]

@frankenboston Thanks. Ever heard that old joke: "What do Love, faith, comedy and frogs have in common? They all die when you dissect them." I'm more a believer in Collective Unconscious so I suppose I have faith of a sort, but I was taught that curiosity and humiiity get you farther than dogma so I've never been one of the "Faithful" - I think it becomes a dodge, crutch and/or a barrier for too many. Good luck on your quest.

[@shawnmcgraw7754]

Using this in my high school Psychology class.

[@MattttG3]

your correct, all floral life uses photosynthesis so it has no creation of the nuertotransitters we can (serotonin, dopamine, noradrenaline, GABA etc) but i how plants comminunicate and send messages. such as our dopamine response is a reward mechanism in order to keep us alive, is such a system involved in plants via them growing towards a light source?

[@zeusvalentine1848]

this is what gamblers feel like. This guy might have the cure so many seek

[@robertsweet5212]

Those people may laugh but this ability of humans creates and drives entire civilisations.

[@MicahBuzanANIMATION]

I wish he was my teacher.

[@rachnavlog1812]

Helpful

[@TrishTruitt]

Fascinating! Thank you.

[@FerrisPermentoe]

So if i deprive myself of pleasure i am going to feel pleasure. Thanks science.

[@fabioguerreiro292]

Wow this changes some things

[@frankenboston]

@skingbinsane your absolutely correct. but why does that fact changed at all, to the date? explain please,

[@neillamas8929]

Dopamine linked to derivative of pleasure?

[@callihess2165]

Does anyone know where the study/article is located with this information? I would like to cite it, but I can't find it anywhere, which is making me suspicious.

[@nickjohn2051]

His book behave has the citation I believe.

[@Sunflower-vp8bc]

loveeee this man, so brilliant

[@doubledoubletwnktwnk]

@AapoJoki: Have you checked out "Robert Sapolsky 1" and 2 by khiluen on here? Sapolsky is more respectful to people of faith and to how faith (an "attributional system") changes people. I have only heard it twice and not combed through it in detail, but I interpreted his tone as honest and HUMBLE that he does not understand the power of faith since he does not participate in it. Hope that is more balanced. (One example is 4:41 in part 2, about Francis Collins.)

[@adolfosolorio9497]

Great lecture! Defiantly influenced my way of thinking!

[@manoftheworld1000]

What a great guy to practise science! Just listen to the part from 4:30 on - it contains to my knowledge the world's one & only neurobiological definition of religion! I simply laughed my head off!

[@NewLeaf88]

uncertainty, unpredictability, maybe = DOPAMINE

[@SanoKei]

Wait also, wouldn't knowing this limit the dopamine levels because you aren't focused on the reward but the dopamine from the work? I think I'm going insane

[@SanoKei]

@Bort Stimpton I see, thanks for the insight; very interesting!

[@adamschwarz7186]

does anybody knows the papers, that show what he has said in the lecture ! pls, I need it for my homework :/

[@MyBlizzard123]

I totally get this….anticipation of the pleasure.

[@michealsky7966]

I miss you more and more everyday :(

[@GODTHESOOTHSAYER1]

Great lecture from a great man...

[@Creative4aReason]

@AapoJoki To me, he is not making fun of religion here. He is saying this is what is different about humans as opposed to monkeys.

[@Farsay]

@elderwesto A scientist's "brilliance" is immaterial -- what matters is verifiable findings. There are no peer-reviewed studies that demonstrate that humans have a soul.

[@TipoQueTocaelPiano]

what study?

[@MedoHamdani]

My friend is a huge fan of Dopamine. He will call his son Dopamine !

[@georgemontgomery7423]

When you combine this with symbolic interactionism

[@hangukhiphop]

Not me. I have OCD. Uncertainty drives me insane.

[@hangukhiphop]

That's a good guess, but my compulsion is really more of a stress response than an anticipation of pleasure.

[@Eliphas_Leary]

@7zarc7 "Truth" is a five letter word used to describe the wishful thinking about concepts of reality. "Truth" is always relative, never absolute, for it is an attempt to describe reality, but this attempt is always bound to fail.

[@clearyellis1673]

This is brilliant.

[@KelvinWKiger]

this is vital

[@michaelpondo6324]

great research lecture on depression.

[@bruceg1845]

an addict will tell you the anticipation of the next hit is usually better than the hit, which is often a disapointment

[@cami5054]

I would venture to say maybe dopamine depression comes after trying so hard with no reward for a very long time 😕

[@mozo73]

@Asiablue Yes, right. He states that there is a unique human behavior, and then makes the unpardonable non-sequitur of an argument, that this unique behavior is the same as the behavior of his test subjects who do NOT share this unique behavior. This is a "social opinion" piece, not science or reason. Also, whole-heartedly agree with you about the unique 2%.

[@mundotopia]

He looks like an old Leonard Hofstadter explaining some Amy Farrah Fowler's research.

[@johnaugsburger6192]

Thanks

[@fouro]

@frankenboston - Heh. Yep, they do tend to dissolve into mush, eh? I'm 20+ years past undergrad and the post-stuff has been business and media-related. But I do use the ideas of Joe Campbell, Jung and Ernest Becker a lot in my work. I think people are much simpler than we've convinced ourselves we are - pleasure and pain, running toward one and way from the other powers us and our mythologies. Per Becker, we're an Ontological Dilema: We desire to stand apart yet we need the support of a group.

[@Depressed_Dinosaur]

Yeah, it seems nice but a bit too simple. The functions of dopamine are numerous. And who exactly did the research? What does the monkey's dopamine levels look like when they are learning the task the first time? The tenth time?

[@tpstrat14]

I’ve been to casinos. It’s fun but they never got me addicted. I somehow always knew that it was rigged despite their attempts to brainwash me. Does that make me smart?

[@pt2091]

I am enlightened.

[@rogersyversen3633]

links to the papers please

[@mozo73]

@MajorObvious Re: "Very real intelligence gap between humans and monkeys exists." One more thing, even though it is off topic, this VERY large gap between the "complex" human, and the much less "complex" of our nearest non-human relations, has always been a bit troubling to me.

[@DualityBBD]

Can someone give me a link to this study?