Double Unboxing ZDP189 and Hap40 Super Steels

[@curseofthegreat]

I know I’m going to sound repetitive here after the comments on the last video, but again, Sukenari has been producing ZDP189 knives since at least 2008, if not longer. I found an old video from probably the very first prototype ZDP knife they ever made as a one-off. It’s a very dated steel (I want to say it was first released in 2001 or 2002?) that was developed by Hitachi to compete with Daido’s Cowry X, which was used almost exclusively by Hattori, and used to be all the rage. It was indeed one of the first powdered super steels, first used by Spyderco in folding knives and Yoshihiro or perhaps Zwilling/Henckels knives used it second in kitchen knives. You’ll see it today in Miyabi knives under the name MC66. The main issue that seems to be present, aside from difficulty in sharpening, is the inconsistency of the tungsten carbide structure in the melt matrix which makes the edge very chip-prone, and, even with high chromium content, the overwhelming amount of carbon does not make it truly stainless and can actually rust. I really do think that you should look into Sukenari‘s knives if you ever get a wild hair. They also made a very limited run of ZDP4 yanagibas and a developed a steel called Super X that never really took off. To date, Sukenari are the only ones to utilize YXR7 single melt matrix tool steel in kitchen cutlery, but it is also found in Rockstead knives.

[@nadm]

I love learning so it was definitely great to get this information from you. I look forward to seeing what super steals have in store for us. I almost feel like it's going to rob me for my love of sharpening.

[@simptrix007]

I got myself year ago Sukenari G3 210mm kiritsuke gyuto. I would say they are very underrrated and trying to master the steels that others are using very little. Spine and choil are nicely rounded and polished for maximum comfort.

[@sharamkh]

Excited for the sharpening video. Do you think something like the Naniwa Professional series will be able to sharpen these steels?

[@nadm]

Yes but I'm concerned about how long it would take. We're going to be doing that as an experiment at some point.

[@dimmacommunication]

Now that you have cBN and Diamonds you are going with super hard steels 😎 Since you tested DaoVua carbon I will probably buy a handforged italian knife " bowie " for the woods , steel is probably similar to a DaoVua 👍😃

[@nadm]

I haven't really tested them. I have used them and I'm going to be sharpening them. But I haven't really tested them. We're trying to expand our horizons into different subjects. It's hard to keep all of you entertained.

[@Alex25CoB]

Hey Greg, love the video - love the knives! I'm a huge fan of these "exotic" steels :) Have you had the chance of sharpening them yet; if so: how did it go? Will there be a video?

[@nadm]

You know, I have not, but thank you for the suggestion because that’s going to make a great video. People love sharpening, so I’ll see if I can get it done in December. If not, January. I really do appreciate the comment.

[@Alex25CoB]

@@nadm Great to hear - I'm looking forward to it! I think many will enjoy that!

[@nadm]

@@Alex25CoB we are probably gonna shoot that video this weekend. It will not be out till the first or second weekend in December.

[@anthonycapo1998]

love the high RW steels. I want both of these steels as edc flippers tbh. Need to use those naniwa diamond stones on these ;)

[@nadm]

Thank you for that!!!

[@Anarchsis]

I think the Hap ‘travelled’ through both papers better than the Z. Is that a fair assessment?

[@nadm]

I don't know I think we had was very lightweight but the ZDP189 seem to really kind of go through everything pretty easily. At least out of the box!. I'll have to sharpen both of them to the best of my ability and see what we can do

[@davesmith5656]

Can't wait to see you sharpen those! Would you show us what NOT to use them for?

[@nadm]

I like sharpening knives that are a little lower in the 62 to 63 range. That's my sweet spot

[@sonkekoster3105]

I am a big fan of HAP 40 because of the toughness. It's for me a high end carbon steel. It will patina, but it's tough and hard!

[@nadm]

I still like my super blue steel. I like the way it feels

[@sonkekoster3105]

@@nadm Oh me too. I have very traditional japanese knives. A Fujiware Marboroshi 210 Gyuto and a 240 Y. Kato Super Blue Nashiji Gyuto. I like them, but as a collector - I try to find the optimum steel and the optimum shape combined with the optimum shape. That's my motivation to bye new knives and try them out....

[@raspizdjaische9872]

Have you got any experience with hap72?

[@nadm]

Never heard of it. I’ll have to look into it.

[@robertdavis171]

No blueberry cutting?

[@nadm]

Man, I am sorry! I always have blueberries with me. I didn’t think about it. I apologize. I owe you one blueberry test!

[@trappenweisseguy27]

After 3 1/2 decades of using and sharpening chisels and knives, I side with sharpenability over extreme hardness. The extreme example of this is the ceramic knives which really are not user serviceable and definitely do dull over time. These two steels likely require the higher end ceramic type stones over the common King types for effective sharpening. I don’t have a ton of effective knowledge about either, but have heard that the HAP40 is easier to sharpen and holds onto an edge for a crazy long time. The 20% chromium in the ZDP could make it less than fun to sharpen. The decent, but much smaller, amount of chromium in the HAP will give it some corrosion inhibitance compared to the usual high carbon steels and might have a much reduced need for wiping the knife down constantly in use.

[@trappenweisseguy27]

Thanks for putting these two steels against each other btw.

[@nadm]

You're welcome! No problem

[@dimmacommunication]

Yeah definately curious to try HAP40 one day.

[@nadm]

@@dimmacommunication Click on that link. It’s not an expensive item

[@dropdtuned1]

I have to agree on your siding with sharpenability comment. I enjoy sharpening as much as I enjoy using a sharp knife and I find it very relaxing to do so.I like hard steels but my sweetspot is somewhere between 62-64 HRC.

[@dreamhack6923]

Can you please make tutorial on re-handling please, i want to do re-handling but i dont have professional equipment to do it.

[@nadm]

It's actually been coming for quite a while. I'm waiting on two handles to come in from a guy. I have all of the footage shot except for some of the rehandling. I have a small film that I put on Instagram and I'll give you a link. Just so you know, we are going to be shooting that episode. We're just waiting on something to come. Some guy is making handles and we have a lot of different handles from a lot of different people we're just waiting on those two to get here before we shoot that episode. instagram.com/tv/CY2vw-UrNWx/?

[@dreamhack6923]

@@nadm do you use hot glue ? And do you put your glue in the handle first before inserting the heated tang in?

[@nadm]

@@dreamhack6923 You are correct. In that little video you don’t see it. You’re taking glue stick and you take a knife and chop it into little chips and then I shove the little chips down inside the handle and then I heat up the tang and and then I put the hot Thang down into there and I put it in and pulled it out several times until I got it right

[@dreamhack6923]

@@nadm what kind or type of glue is good to use ? Thanks so much

[@nadm]

@@dreamhack6923 You know I just asked my wife for a glue stick and I cut it up. I never found out if there’s a certain type of glue sorry

[@aaronyocum1421]

HAP40 Responds well to sharpening stones of various kinds, much better than ZDP!

[@nadm]

Thank you for that. I am looking forward to sharpening that knife with different stones and learning all of the flexibility on my ass. It’s exciting!

[@fireman614c9]

id love to have one but couldn’t afford one

[@nadm]

Honestly, there's too many other great knives that you can afford that perform at the highest level. You just have to learn how to take care of them.

[@8thsinner]

What does that mean to me, OHHHH, yummmy, SHINY Yours is probably way better than my spyderco though, they normally only harden to like 63-64. I would have expected closer to 80 for the zdp to be honest I know it's not really your thing as you are more kitchen orientated, but you have seen the shin in zdp by rockstead cutting 800+ one inch hemp rope...I mean DAMN. I'd like to see you blunt one of them and then get that edge back, cause that would be a serious challenge.

[@nadm]

I'm thankful for the statement. I knew people were using rope but I wasn't exactly sure what it was made of. I'll have to look into it. If you see a link I would love it if you would share it with me

[@8thsinner]

@@nadm sure thing give me a sec

[@8thsinner]

@@nadm kzbin.info/www/bejne/bYXJZ2WmpZeEbpY

[@8thsinner]

@@nadm Cedric and ada does a lot of rope cut tests, and there is a russian guy too I can't remember the name of right now, but the above in the shin sampling I spoke off. It's the video that sparked me getting the zdp in spyderco, though in spyderco heat treats the spyderco maxamet and either m390 or k390 out performs it so the sweet spot for hitachi zdp seems to be better around 66-67.

[@8thsinner]

@@nadm Also, another fun one to see the rockstead edges is the one in the last couple of months by dbk bushcraft knives, you can tell be their faces they are blown away by it's performance. IT's not just stone sharpened, they are doing something else to it too, personally I think it's burnished under a hrc 70 needle or something the way katanas are in the shinogi-ji area. You will see either way it's very durable.

[@ottohonkala6861]

I'd pick HAP40 everytime over ZDP-189....simply because of the sharpening ease....while super-hard, its ok to sharpen. ZFP is like a super hard, gummy 'global-knife' steel....not fun.

[@nadm]

Thank you for that!

[@trappenweisseguy27]

That’s the same sense I’ve been able to gather. It’s got to be the 20% chromium. I have a Chinese cleaver with 18% in it and it’s definitely not fun to sharpen.

[@nadm]

@@trappenweisseguy27 bone crushing Chinese cleaver!

[@jeffhicks8428]

Have you ever actually sharpened either steel? Honestly though.

[@TrieuNguyen-iv9tv]

Hai loại này loại nào tốt hơn vậy

[@nadm]

I want to respond but I don't understand what you wrote so I'll try to translate it when I get a chance.

[@s.n.9952]

@@nadm Google Translator say: ,,which Knife is better ?" (ZDP/HAP) What du you thing?

[@nadm]

@@s.n.9952 I mean, I really like the ZDP 189, but I don’t really have enough experience with either one of them to pick

[@nadm]

I have them both, but haven’t used them enough to know so I don’t really have a way of packing. I think they’re quite similar.

[@s.n.9952]

@@nadmis the Geometri af this to Knive identikal ?

[@lastbite1237]

OH LORD. 🤭 what a knife or better say art.

[@nadm]

I will say that it's very heavy. It's got a powerful feeling to it like you can just go through anything. The handle is amazing.

[@robertdavis171]

I thought I heard you say the first knife has 3% carbon. That seemed high to me. I looked it up and the highest carbon content in steel is 2.1%. Which is wrong?

[@hello.itsme.5635]

Both is correct. Kinda. ZDP189 is the exception to the 2% rule.

[@nadm]

knifeuser.com/zdp-189-steel-review/ ZDP-189 steel composition 3% of Carbon: It improves hardness and wear/corrosion resistance, but a high amount of it decreases strength. 20% of Chromium: For tensile strength and Edge retention, and enhances corrosion resistance and wear resistance. 1,4% of Molybdenum: Increase Machinability and strength. 0,5% of Manganese: Increases hardness and brittleness. 0,4% Silicon: Improves Strength. 0,1% of Vanadium: Improves wear resistance and hardenability. 0,6% Tungsten: Improves wear resistance and hardness. As you can see, the chemical composition of the ZDP-189 shows how superior the steel is. It has 3% of Carbon (which is very expensive to manufacture) and 20% of Chromium (that’s a very high level of Chromium), results in an exceptional hardness, wear-resistance, and corrosion resistance. ZDP-189 hardness (Rockwell hardness) ZDP-189 Steel can reach a maximum hardness of 67HRC. According to the chemical composition and the HRC of the steel, the ZDP-189 Steel has the following features: ZDP-189 Edge Retention: With a maximum hardness of 67HRC, the steel can offer a great hardness that’s going to result in an exceptional Edge Retention!. ZDP-189 Corrosion Resistance: Excellent corrosion resistance!, with 20% of Chromium ZDP-189 is just the best for corrosion resistance. ZDP-189 Wear Resistance: Excellent Wear Resistance, again thanks to the mixture of High Carbon and High Chromium. ZDP-189 Sharpness: The rule says the harder the steel, the harder to sharpen it, ZDP-189 is very hard, so sharpening it will take some time and won’t be a simple task, but don’t forget it holds an edge for a long time, you will rarely sharpen it. ZDP-189 Toughness: Good toughness, but not great as much as its hardness, you can’t have toughness, corrosion resistance and hardness in one steel (but you can reach a balance).

[@jeffhicks8428]

@@nadm Also happy thanksgiving.

[@nadm]

@@jeffhicks8428 it was a good one. I hope yours was as well!

[@hiroya777100]

Zdp189 のほうが板前向きだ。 粗度で研げば簡単