Have We Found the Buddha's Bones? Two New York Exhibitions

A recent essay by John Guy, Chief Curator of South Asian Art at the Metropolitan Museum of Art in NY suggests we might have found the Buddha's relics. I'll consider a current exhibit at the Met and an essay by Guy discussing excavations at Piprahwa in India and the precious relics discovered there. (Note that the bones themselves are not in the exhibit).
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✅ Video suggested:
Tree & Serpent: New Exhibition at the Metropolitan Museum -- • Tree & Serpent: New Ex...
Additionally, this story was covered in a show on PBS several years ago, which I have not seen. If you are interested: www.pbs.org/wn...
✅ Sutta mentioned:
suttacentral.n...
✅ Exhibition webpages:
rubinmuseum.or...
www.metmuseum....
✅ Additional material:
John Guy, “Buddha and the Jewel-filled Casket: The Piprahwa Reliquaries and the Cult of Relics in Early Indian Buddhism.” In Orientations, July/August 2023, pp. 35-45. www.orientatio...
John Guy, Tree and Serpent, Metropolitan Museum of Art, 2023. store.metmuseu...
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[@DougsDharma]

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[@xiaomaozen]

If we could be absolutely sure that these are the bones of the Buddha - then what? Does it change anything for me? I've never really understood why relics mean anything to anyone and always considered it a kind of fetishism. So I really appreciate your final words (that the true relics are the Dharma). 😁🙏

[@DougsDharma]

Yes! 🙏

[@jinkiskhan1967]

the early buddhists placed an enormous value on these relics to the point where it's said there were conflicts fought over them, but they ended once it was pointed out how this contradicted the teachings of Gautama Buddha

[@Samyakkasar]

The relics are also important as they are proofs that Buddha was an historical being, you see after thousands of years it can be normal that people might think Buddha was fictional that can also be the reason why Buddha's relics were preserved and even distributed. They are also important because the people before 2500 years who really wanted to meet Buddha but due to his death they wouldn't meet him so to fulfill them there were relics to whom they can pay their respects to as if the relics are Buddha. Moreover many begginers in Buddhism can also have doubt in Dhamma as they are not sotapanna so to strengthen their beliefs and faith in Buddha the relics can play a role. But if we already know that Buddha was an historical and have unbreakable faith in him then we can conclude that Dhamma is more important than relics or it is relics of Buddha. But thinking on the other side we cannot directly conclude that the relics might be or not might be beneficial for us by thinking on our own as there were many great and actually enlightened monks at that time (just after the death of Buddha) like Mahakassapa and Ananda that thought of preserving the Buddha's relics, there can be actual reasons why such great and enlightened monks thought of doing so, but ya we cannot actually attain enlightenment (Arahantaship) with the help of relics as we should be our own island as Buddha said and enlightenment is depended on our karma🙂🙂🙏🙏

[@lukemckean6155]

Relics have power

[@dreamadventure8220]

@@lukemckean6155 no they don't , I am Buddhists myself

[@hammersaw3135]

I just saw the very old statue of Buddha where he has a mustache and hair at our local museum, I like that look on him 😅I saw at the exhibit a lot of these statues had the backs carved out to contain relics, I imagined most likely scrolls, but perhaps bones or precious stones? I see the Buddha's dharma as a gift that keeps on giving, a wisdom so deep it's well never run's dry.

[@FRED-gx2qk]

Much appreciated Doug .

[@DougsDharma]

🙏😊

[@missmerrily4830]

I find relics fascinating and would always, when possible and the chance offered, be interested to see them. But what really matters, particularly with objects connected to a faith, is the teachings of that revered person and not objects associated with them, which can all too easily become the focus instead of the teachings. But still wonderful to imagine that there might be a strong association to the relics. I'd say just maintain a healthy scepticism but enjoy them! I'd be there to see these in a flash if I could! But did Buddha exist? Not even a question in my mind!

[@DougsDharma]

For sure, it's not about the relics but the teaching. Anyhow fun and interesting to think about!

[@krzysztofgutowski2050]

Thanks Doug for this great video and bringing attention to the topic of relics. The whole history of discoveries in Piprahwa is fascinating (accusations of fraud, the struggle of colonial powers in the background etc.). Of course, from a secular point of view, physical relics are completely secondary, but when we look at Buddhism as a whole and its history, the cult of relics was an absolutely key and fundamental religious practice in both Theravada and Mahayana. It's a part of my research work. Since my undergraduate studies I got a kind of obsession with the topic of relic cult in Buddhism 😆 A wonderful reconstruction of the history of the relics, Ashok's participation in their redistribution and an assessment of the credibility of these discoveries was carried out by Prof. Harry Falk in his article "The Ashes of the Buddha" in the "Bulletin of the Asia Institute" (available online on the magazine's website and on the Academia profile). I recommend it :) Greetings from Poland :)

[@DougsDharma]

Thanks for the information! 🙏

[@jonwesick2844]

I like the book "The Historical Buddha" by Schumann. Understanding the world he lived in and as much biography as possible gives context to the Dharma. My concern is that later writers may have glossed over what he truly meant to say. As for the relics, I think people who lived 200 years after the Buddha's death believed these were his bones. This is probably about as much as we can know. It would be interesting to carbon date the relics to see if we could place them near the Buddha's lifetime.

[@DougsDharma]

Yes, though I'm sure the Thai and other authorities wouldn't allow it since it's a destructive technique.

[@Tsechen287]

Without the British Raj none of these Archeological finding would’ve been possible. the Indians states were not even bothered. Edwin Arnold in his book was shocked to see Hindu priest deliberately pouring hot oil under the Mahabodhi Tree. the Hindu priest still resides in Mahabodhi temple with his donation box, calling stupa a shiva linga. 😢

[@കാൽപ്പന്ത്]

Yes a sad truth but one day they have to pay for it. Hindus are most fraudulent manipulated people in the world.

[@josephkingsley8708]

The past is absolutely captivating. If I had to choose between a portal to the future or to the past, I’m not even hesitating.

[@DougsDharma]

Interestingly so much of archeology and even history of literature is just such a portal!

[@Johnoines]

Thanks Doug. Very interesting information. I saw a documentary called "The Bones of the Buddha" several years back that covers some of what you discussed.

[@DougsDharma]

Yes thanks! I have a link to that PBS episode in the show notes, though I haven’t seen it myself.

[@Johnoines]

You will enjoy that documentary.@@DougsDharma

[@gate-gate6863]

I am so glad I bumped into your channel. Subscribed! Good thing the only original stupa (Ramagrama)has never been opened by Ashoka or any later kings. The relics in Ramagrama has to be genuine. I am an old person, and had been a devout Buddhist over half of my life. However my concentration had been on Chinese high monks and their teachings; for Buddha - even I had never doubted his historical existence - had been too far away both in time and space. It wasn't until 20 years ago when I suddenly became interested in Buddhism archeology that I gradually became fascinated in Buddha as a real flesh and blood. Everything related to Him would get my blood boiling with pain, passion and curiosity. I will go through your videos.

[@DougsDharma]

🙏

[@fingerprint5511]

Thanks Doug 🙏🏼

[@DougsDharma]

Very welcome!

[@saugamathazine1959]

Can can you discuss about the harrappen civilaizations regarding its connection with buddhism which have discuss in Science Journal and also about 28 buddhas before main buddha which are mention in early buddhism.

[@DougsDharma]

The Harappan civilization predated Buddhism by millennia and was unrelated to it. There are Harappan seal images that may represent meditators but this is speculation. As for past Buddhas, see my earlier video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bnSzXoaZhKh7gJI

[@amwthutube]

Hi Doug, thanks for your explanation! I appreciate your perspective. If you're interested, I'd be happy to share complete story from Theravada Buddhist culture in Sri Lanka about the places where Buddha's all relics are believed to be kept. Sri Lanka does have a significant collection of relics, though different traditions hold varying views on the authenticity and distribution of such remains.

[@DougsDharma]

🙏😊

[@prajnadeva]

I saw the one enshrined in National Museum of India, New Delhi, some years ago. It was from Pipwarha too (forgive the spelling, I cant remember) Just let us be faithful and pay homage to them, as representative and reminder that the Enlightened One was here before, that Liberation is possible, and his teaching is real and true. That's it. Whether or not it is true, not really important, just treat it as real. Anyway, the burden is with our predecessors. If it is not real, why store it in a jar with the inscription. Much of the burden is with Ashoka. As a King, he should know better than to fake things or to be deceived. So if he said this relic is real, or this place is so so place from Buddha's life, who are we to doubt him.

[@DougsDharma]

Yes the reality of it isn't so important, but it's historically interesting anyway.

[@paradoxsolverparadoxsolver748]

In another early sutta (Devadahasutta, Majjhima Nikāya 101), the Buddha sees the pain and suffering that is experienced by certain individuals as indicating that if they were created by a god, then this is likely to be an evil god:[16] "if the pleasure and pain that beings feel are caused by the creative act of a Supreme God, then the Nigaṇṭhas surely must have been created by an evil Supreme God, since they now feel such painful, racking, piercing feelings."

[@DougsDharma]

Yes that's because the Nigaṇṭhas (Jains) pursued pain as a way to achieve liberation.

[@saralamuni]

Relative Value of Relics and Perfect Wisdom [94-99] Asked a question by the Jina, Sakra answered: “If I could have Buddhafields like the sands of the river Ganges, All of them filled to the top with the relics of the Jinas: Nevertheless I would still take this wisdom, the foremost of the perfections. For what reason? It is not that I lack respect for the relics, But they are worshipped because they are fostered by wisdom. Just as every man who is supported by the king gets worship, Just so the Buddha-relics, because they are supported by the perfection of wisdom. Simile of the Wishing Jewel [96-99] A precious gem, in possession of all qualities, priceless, The basket in which it may be, should be paid homage to; Even when it has been taken out, the basket continues to emit its radiance: Such are the qualities of that gem. Just so it is with the qualities of wisdom, the foremost perfection, Which gain worship for the relics of the Jina even after he has gone to rest. Therefore let him who wants to win the Jina-qualities Take up the perfection of wisdom. She is the liberation.”

[@tasospanagiotou7823]

Hello Doug. Can you make a video on the chakras and how important or beneficial spiritually it is to clear, heal and balance them?

[@DougsDharma]

Chakras were not a part of early Buddhist dharma, which is most of the focus of my channel.

[@willy2447]

Theres a cool PBS special on this

[@fingerprint5511]

Thank you 🙏🏼

[@DougsDharma]

Yes, it's linked in the show notes.

[@branimirsalevic5092]

Dhamma is Buddha's flesh and bones; Dhamma is the Buddha, the Buddha is the Dhamma; who sees the Dhamma sees the Buddha etc etc. And Dependent Origination is the Dhamma, Dhamma is Dependent Origination, Dependent Origination is the Buddha. All this other stuff is - dust.

[@DougsDharma]

True, I discussed a bit of this in a past video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rZqVpJdsatFsa9E

[@playmobilegamescodm]

In my language Buddha is called Goutam Siddharto. Buddho SakkoMuni. Pronunciations are little different.

[@playmobilegamescodm]

Some Communist politicians made fun of Buddha in some song of their party.

[@playmobilegamescodm]

@@askflel345 Are you by any chance From India? I am from India btw.

[@fingerprint5511]

Or Buddho

[@playmobilegamescodm]

@@askflel345 Oh so in your country same thing happens? I thought it was an India and Myanmar exclusive issue.

[@FRED-gx2qk]

Much appreciated

[@rohitbalkhande66]

I have heard from many Buddhist monks that when an arhant monk dies, after his cremation, his relics become like crystal and gemstones. Is there any mention of such phenomena in the Tripitakas or anywhere in Theravada scriptures?

[@DougsDharma]

There isn't in the early texts. Not sure about other, later scriptures.

[@rafaelecattonar1506]

I have been to a Zen Buddhist temple and to a Tibetan Buddhist temple. Both of them follow the Mahayana way and in both you have to do a vow to liberate every living being and to help them become a Buddha. Even though a Buddhist world would be a peaceful world it's impossible to liberate every living being. So why do we have to do such a vow? And do we have to do such a vow in Theravada, too?

[@trimegistus]

It's the same logic as when you wish someone, something may you have a great year ahead of you , of course there is very little you can do to make sure the person's year goes well, but it's the aspiration and kind wish that matters. So before you become a buddha and help all beings , you keep taking that vow to strengthen that resolve across lifetimes

[@DougsDharma]

I believe the vows you're mentioning are Bodhisattva vows that are only found in Mahāyāna, not Theravāda. If I can find good information about their origins I'll do a video.

[@rafaelecattonar1506]

​@@DougsDharmathank you

[@khemasati5448]

I don’t know technical information about relics and dna sequencing, but would there be any way to sequence the Buddha’s dna from the relics? It seems like that would consume the material in a way that would destructive. But could the dna tell us details about the historical Buddha’s physical characteristics?

[@DougsDharma]

I'm really not sure about DNA recovery from the relics, though I doubt the authorities in Thailand or elsewhere would allow it. In any event, since we can never know for certain whose bones they are, we could never know for certain whether any data we could recover would be of the Buddha himself or of someone else. We could probably tell whether the bones were human though which would at least be interesting to know.

[@p..1695]

The relics of Piparvaha have indeed been confirmed to date back to 300-200 BC. These are actually not the relics of Buddha but the bones of animals. Paleontologists have clearly stated in their report that this is a pig's tooth.

[@DougsDharma]

Interesting, where is this info?

[@p..1695]

@@DougsDharma Here 👇 Shrines and Relics in Buddhism - Urban Dharma www.urbandharma.org/pdf1/01Shrines.pdf Page 77-78

[@be1tube]

3:01 The saying I learned was: there are enough pieces of the true cross to build Noah's ark. (Maybe you chose to gloss it as "ship" for people who don't have an Abrahamic background.)

[@DougsDharma]

Ah yes that makes sense! 😄

[@smlanka4u]

🌷🌷🌷❤❤❤

[@DougsDharma]

🙏😊

[@SugarKing-v9z]

can Buddhism lead to poverty? Please make a video. Now, In Myanmar, youths are arguing Buddhism for state poverty.

[@truth_finder2001]

If one practice buddhism correctly there's no way to become poor. Buddhism teaches someone to depend on himself. Actually buddhist countries should be at the top of the list of richest countries, if they understand buddhism correctly. This idea is spreading even in Sri Lanka ( supported by christian missionaries mostly)

[@normalizedaudio2481]

Sometimes these relics travel around in the trunk of a luxury sedan.

[@DougsDharma]

I expect they might travel around in an armored car, and probably were brought a similar way originally from some royal vault to the stupa reliquary. (Bones aside).

[@SullivanKelly85]

So much narrative for what are merely elements.

[@fingerprint5511]

You are obviously too advanced for such content ... perhaps an Arahant ? 🙄😒

[@tapanisydanmetsa6714]

That was not THE pillar in the picture, that was the ugly concrete pillar put in the place of the old eroded one.

[@DougsDharma]

Thanks for the information!

[@tapanisydanmetsa6714]

@@DougsDharma Now I had to google a bit when I got thankyou from a Buddha scholar. That the pillar is of concrete I can not guarantee, though authenticity is very clearly contested. When I was at Lumbini some 13-14 years ago there was a stump of pillar of black onyx by the side of this shiny one and I think there was a sign indicating that it was the original one. I got upset that the new pillar was like any bridge construction part from contemporary time. Without deeper knowledge about the subject I assumed that it was put there by Lumbini administration just as a show piece and sadly without any reverence. Also there are many temples on the area built by countries where Buddhism is a dominant or big religion, some of which I rather would not like to see at all at Buddha's birth site. Bloody boasting kitsch.

[@OneAndOnly-S9]

I think not Ashoka True name is Asoka.

[@DougsDharma]

Asoka is the Pāli spelling, Aśoka is Sanskrit. Same name either way.

[@shunlaiei5981]

Hairs in Myanmar. Tooth in Beijing. Some in Tavateinsa heaven. After 2500 years, all relics will arrive back where Buddha was enlightened. After 2500 years , Buddha will appear again. Will preach the last time for the people who will go Nibbana. After that, next Buddha time will decend. Next Buddha will live 80000 years in humen life. Humen lives will be 100000 years. After next Buddha have preaching about Nibbana and entered Nibbana, the world will be destroyed by water, fire and wind. New world will start.

[@oldstudent2587]

Not so sure finding Buddha's bones is a good thing. Whole wars have been fought over so much as a tooth supposed to be his.

[@DougsDharma]

Let's hope it doesn't happen again.

[@eric-so7pw]

Is cool but not that cool...I mean we are talking about the guy who teaches impermanent..if you're a good Buddhist. I would say you shouldn't give a shit