Dr. Craig Keener: Continuationism vs Cessationism, and Heresy Hunting

[@michaelmiller5024]

Great episode! Thanks for the shout out to the remnant too! I'm definitely using some of Craig's arguments in our upcoming response to Justin Peters & Chris Rosborough.

[@willhart971]

Miller, my favorite basement dweller. Bro anytime you are in TN I would love to have you on the podcast.

[@michaelmiller5024]

@@willhart971 sure thing. how should I get your contact? I'll likely be in that area in March to visit family.

[@e.m.8094]

That Bible background commentary has been an absolute blessing. I use it all the time! It's definitely my first to go to commentary.

[@e.m.8094]

This was fantastic! Please have Dr. Keener on again!

[@prophetmaw814]

My dear Brothers in Christ. I truly enjoyed this video. Ever since I was chosen for the ministry and the Lord has been using me, I've been met with some very harsh insult. I haven't allowed that to discourage me from pressing forward doing that which our Father in Heaven has blessed me with the power to do and this discussion has been an encouragement on my journey. Amen

[@followingnazarene]

24:28 Justin Peters, Vauddy Baucham, John McArthur, Paul Washer,…

[@litrugia]

Chris Roseborough, Messed up Chuch, Doreen Virtue

[@scotthooper7171]

Love Dr. Keener! I used him all throughout my time at GATS for papers. I love the broad spectrum of guests you have on the show. Love seeing charismatic scholars, talk about their journey, faith, and perspective. thanks Will and the team!

[@philos_theos]

I was seriously blessed by this interview with Dr. Keener. Thank you so much for this. I also subscribed.

[@Keverember]

This episode was a joy! Found Dr. Keener through Remnant Radio and loved your interview with Steffany Gretzinger. Really want to pick up some of Dr. Keener’s books now. Bless you!

[@jimyoung9262]

"Watch out for astrology. It's not biblical..." Dr. Keener's dead pan delivery gets me every time.

[@randybarker8968]

Preach ...

[@ByronWarfield]

Thank you for giving a platform for Christian scholars that are Continuationist! The cessationists parrots are most of who I find when trying to find teachings on the gifts/signs/wonders.

[@sonyapapelyan3583]

Amazing!! So goood!!!

[@e.m.8094]

I love Dr. Keener! I'm literally thinking about picking up another job just so I can purchase the rest of his books. LOL

[@dizzydisciple]

You guys should consider time stamping your videos! Would love to see chapters based on each conversation for easier sharing and indexing.

[@brandonmenneke]

32:52 Dr. Craig Keener drops such a good point.

[@CarolDee61]

Just learned about Dr Keener. How cool! Good job Iris Global!

[@randybarker8968]

Absolutely... quit tearing down

[@christianwoudenberg3393]

I cannot believe this combo its the best. Please have him on in Pemba too :D

[@joshclark7256]

Thanks for this Dr. Keener and Will!

[@joshuapizarro3231]

God blessed me so much with this video.

[@darlaheflin9227]

Wonderful discussion. Inspiring. Confirming.

[@chaplainjim3698]

Outstanding!

[@brandonjett9485]

Love Craig!

[@banmancan1894]

How can I have it where Dr. Keener sends me a bunch of books as well? We're credentialed ministers in the AG, is that a good enough reason? 🤷‍♂😅

[@JewandGreek]

Great interview.

[@rogerblanchard523]

It's true how cessationism prevents a lot of spiritual messiness but pioneering is usually messy. Once a solid supernatural foundation is actively and currently established then messiness can be mostly averted for future believers. I don't suppose a solid foundation has really been established since the apostles though. Hopefully we'll get one more go and reestablish a SOLID and very effective supernatural foundation again.

[@Being_Human_CS]

You should have Dr. Michael Brown on your podcast! That would be awesome.

[@baker5352]

51:17 amen

[@storyofscripture]

yes more theologians

[@print3328]

Great conversation

[@amymiller4381]

Can you explain the NAR group?

[@DaltonGrayMusic]

Jesus said the wheat and tares will grow together til the time of the end. You simply must accept there are true and false offices of God operating simultaneously and you simply must judge by the scripture and the fruit. And understand that no man But Christ can get you to heaven and you'll be fine. God Himself protects us from deceivers if we listen to Him! But the bible commands us to "passionately pursue spiritual gifts. Especially prophecy" So that should be what you are doing despite people that do it wrong

[@e.m.8094]

Not sure if it's just my perception, but there seems to be a lot more cessationists pointing fingers and calling her to see against non cessationists, than the other way around. 🤔

[@martdavid84]

“Strange ice” 1:22:49 😂😂😂

[@gregorytoews8316]

I gather from Genesis 1 that God's first function for us, since we're created in his image, is to exist. If this is the case, cessationism is inconsistent with God's nature and purpose.

[@mti2035]

Great thanks I need another hour ❤

[@charitydesmond2251]

My sheep know my voice. John 10:27

[@FedericoBautista-n2v]

I highly respect Dr keener. Having said that pretty bad argumentation against cessationism.

[@ApatiEktetheimenos]

Is the debate really "Cont. v Cess." or is it really Emotionalism versus Sound Biblical Doctrine? The Great Deception is the use of your feelings and emotions INSTEAD of using your cognitive hemisphere to believe that fact, logic and reason to properly guide comprehension. Jeremiah was the first cognitive scientist to explain that, in verse 17:9

[@juboy04]

Cessationism is not biblical doctrine. Okay carry on

[@FedericoBautista-n2v]

A middle eastern guy coming to Christ because he had a dream or something has nothing to do with the debate you could accept that and still be a cessationist continuationism deals with the miraculous gifts like tongues taking place regularly at a local church say a body of believers in some local church experiencing among them people people speaking foreign languages they’ve never learned commonly like every Sunday if that were the case there would not be a debate among us because the evidence would be overwhelming.

[@baker5352]

Minute 48 "John 21:25 ESV [25] Now there are also many other things that Jesus did. Were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written."

[@Norrin777Radd]

Someone with a cool head and keen mind needs to help get things sorted out with Sam Storms, Mike Brown, Justin Peters, Steve Kozar, etc. Quite a mess. And unfortunately, I don't know if Dr. Keener could help, because his friendliness with Heidi and Rolland, etc., would probably be four strikes against him in the eyes of the "American Gospel" folks.

[@e.m.8094]

Maybe the American Gospel folks should be confronted with their heresy? 🤔

[@randybarker8968]

Agenda's yeep... KINGDOM MINDSET ONE MIND ONE ACCORD

[@freightshayker]

If you cannot explain the difference between titles baptism and baptism in the title-name-title of Lord Jesus Christ ... then you have incomplete understanding of that great commission in Matthew 28 and Mark 16 and John 3 and Acts 2: v38 and Acts 19: v5 etc. Plenty more false teachings other than cessationism namely trinitarianism. God is not a trinity as per Deuteronomy 6: v4 and Isaiah 45: v15 and Hosea 13: v4 and Isaiah 43: v11 and John 1: v49 and Acts 2: v36 and John 8: v58 and Revelation 1: v8 etc. Start at the beginning. Go to a man of God who knows the difference between titles baptism and baptism in the title-name-title of Lord Jesus Christ. Full submersion. Man of God says: I baptize you in the title-name-title of Lord Jesus Christ for the remission of sin

[@ElvisI97]

Hey there, I’m a former oneness Pentecostal person. Those verses you listed regarding the “One-ness” of God are exactly why I’m a Trinitarian. We need to balance those verses with the verses where God is presented as three persons such as the baptism of Jesus. Trinitarian theology teaches that God is one in essence (ousia) and three in persons. There is only one God who shares one Being (and is Being itself). Secondly, Peter mentions baptism in the name of Jesus simply to highlight the significance of the Messiah to the Jewish community who once rejected Him.

[@freightshayker]

@ElvisI97 Show us where the Holy Bible says trinity or the phrase: God is three separate persons. Deuteronomy 6: v4 does not say the Lords your God are three Lords. Isaiah 9: v6 a child is born, a Son is given and with Everlasting Father is talking about Jesus or Father? Isaiah 45: v15 is talking about Jesus or Father? Paul's letter to Ephesians was to Jews and Gentiles. Galatians was to Gentiles. Luke's gospel is written to Gentile audience. And you think Peter and Paul had two different messages. One message to Jews then a different message to Gentiles? ... explain Galatians 2: v6 John 12: v29 thru v31. If Jesus and Father are having discussion then the Father is cast out of Heaven at the conclusion of that exchange? People who heard that voice in John 12 said an angel spoke with Jesus. Father sounds like an angel?

[@ElvisI97]

@@freightshayker the platonic distinctions came later to explain what was already present in the scripture. The word “Trinity” doesn’t need to be in the bible to reflect a biblical concept. For example the term atonement was created and put into our bibles to explain a particular concept. The real question is whether these concepts can be found in scripture and are they accepted by the church. Btw, the Trinity was broadly accepted before the canon of scripture was officially recognized. Deuteronomy 6:4 is talking about the oneness of God. God is one being. How does this contradict Trinitarian theology? You’re attacking a straw man by quoting this verse. Isaiah 45:15 Many rulers in ancient times were considered “father of the country.” Americans who read this term might immediately think of George Washington who is called “the father of his country.” It was Washington’s determination and leadership that led to victory in the Revolutionary War and his support of a strong national government that led (at least in part) to ratification of the U.S. Constitution. Without Washington, the United States might not exist today, or it might exist with a far different form of government. However, if some of the interpretations discussed so far are guilty of reading New Testament theological concerns into Isaiah in an anachronistic fashion, using George Washington as an interpretive clue to the meaning of the phrase is also anachronistic. The most appropriate analogy is far more universal. In ancient times, the “father of the nation” was viewed in much the same way as the father of a family. It was the father who was to protect and provide for his children. In the same way, this Child to be born will become a king who will be a father to the children of Israel-He will protect and provide for them. And His role as protector and provider will not be limited by aging or death. His role as father (protector and provider) will continue in perpetuity. Just how this will come about is not revealed in Isaiah’s prophecy. The full identity of the Messiah-that He is God in the flesh, the second Person of the Trinity who would protect and provide for His people by His death and resurrection on their behalf; and that Gentiles could also be grafted into the family of Israel

[@freightshayker]

@ElvisI97 Deuteronomy 6: v4 does not say one being. Passage reads one Lord. Isaiah 45: v15 and Isaiah 43: v11 and Hosea 13: v4 are not talking some generic description of Jewish leadership. And Isaiah is not under the impression God is akin to many rulers. The idea that the Jews believe in one God is what set Jews apart from other groups which often believed in many gods. So your confused analogy with George Washington word-salad being anachronistic aka against early understanding of God is not taken seriously. A single individual human man can hold titles father and son at the same time but for some reason God cannot hold multiple titles? Again. You fail to offer explanation of modalism and why Father Jesus is the only one subject to unknown modalism. God is called: Alpha and Omega. First and the Last. Beginning and the Ending. But Father and Son is impossible? You miss Nathaniel in John 1: v49 calling Jesus both King of Israel and Son of God aka Father and Son. 9,000 occurrences throughout the Holy Bible of God described as He, Him, His meaning singular masculine pronouns but you say they and them are really the logical understanding. You wouldn't teach beginner math students three equals one. You wouldn't write English assignments with he really means them. You miss Matthew 28: v19 is fully understood with Acts 2: v38 and Acts 19: v5. But you probably think theif on the cross somehow renders water baptism not necessary. That in the face of Paul supposedly reestablishing water baptism in Acts 19. You fail to understand that Father God is the Holy Spirit because the Holy Spirit overshadowed the virgin Mary. You fail to understand Father God sending some other Son-Spirit person would then establish child sacrifice as atonement. That when Father God hates that Caananites were burning their own children. That when Father Jesus says it will have been better for you to have a millstone around your neck ... then to offend a little one. But was does makes sense is a good Father sacrificing Himself instead of asking His own Son to be sacrificed aka Acts 20: v28 to feed the church which He purchased with His own blood. And you have no response on Galatians 2 or John 12. By the way. I'm former trinitarian who now knows God is one person. I've been rebaptized like the twelve in Acts 19. Take it to Father Jesus in prayer to see if I'm lying

[@ElvisI97]

@@freightshayker Deuteronomy 6:4 doesn’t say one being, it also doesn’t say one person either. Like I said the platonic distinctions came later to explain the unity and distinctions we see in the Godhead. God is both one and three in a qualified sense.

[@jeffreyhamer3107]

The only people who hyperfocus are those who do not know what focus means.

[@veganramen2327]

Goodnight