Dr. Kacem Zoughari - On Ninjutsu (Mini-documentary)

[@kenninast]

There are two kind of Bujinkan people who trained with Kacem. One kind met him and were awed. They try to train with him as much as possible. One kind who saw they couldn't do what he can and who start to slander him because their ego doesn't allow them to learn.

[@lennykusa9025]

Exactly what people have done with Hatsumi-Sensie. Soke is the example. Many times at the honbu dojo I have seen people ignore him because they couldn't get it. Instead they go into a mindset of " after me soke, you'll be first.

[@negativeionz]

People slander him? Really? His taijutsu is impeccable. I've always admired him and I've only ever met those who also hold him in equally high esteem in the arts. Sad. Wouldn't be the Bujinkan without gossip and backstabbing though.

[@eliefayad52]

I have studied japanese with Kacem et I have spent over 10 years studying ninjutsu with him. I went to japan and I saw so many guys pretending to be Ninjas. I just can tell you this, Ninjustsu is an extremely powerfull and dangerous martial art, but it is very demanding, and few people are ready to do the necessary sacrifice. Kacem did and now he is rewarded. If you have the opportunity to meet with him, do it. You will not regret it.

[@DirtyDjs1]

Takamatsu sensei made up the concept of the Bujinkan from the 9 Ryuha into the system we study today.

[@Pierre50mm]

I started learning bojutsu recently. The teacher of my teacher was a student of Kacem. Kacem is a true master. According to my teacher, bojutsu we see in general on YT is B.S.

[@DeathScepter]

Ninjutsu has martial arts contain within its teachings but it is a way of life because it contains many skills that can be adapted for the modern world. Ninjutsu philosophy is about adaptable, endurance and blending in society. The difference between Taijutsu and Ninjutsu is that Taijutsu focus on the martial arts aspects of Ninjutsu and Ninjutsu has Taijutsu, Ninpo and developing traits of adaptable, endurance and blending in society.

[@HiramekiDojo]

Yes, Dr. Zoughari reads kanbun and of course sôsho. Your question is very strange - why would he not use Takamatsu sensei's oral traditions? That is for his practice, which is in the Bujinkan. His actual research of course goes much deeper than that. Among other credentials as a Ph.D., he wrote a 900 page thesis on the history and transmission of classical japanese martial arts, with extensive translations and analyses of old scrolls and texts.

[@davidkump4345]

I have a historical question to ask anyone that may know the answer. Throughout much of my own research on the history of ninjutsu, I have always heard that Goro Togakure (the 3rd grandmaster of Togakure Ryu ninjutsu was the one that changed the teachings of Ninjutsu into what is taught and practiced today. So I was wanting to expansion and clarification on this statement.... So, my question to you sir (or to anyone that may know the answer) is.... What exactly were those changes??? Thank you so much in advance for your time.

[@MrJ2091957]

Good point, I should have said that "up to this moment in time, no special ninja martial art has been found in any authentic scroll that states that Ninjutsu is hand-to-hand combat".

[@JBX07]

Im going to a Kacem seminar tomorrow, im looking forward to it. The people in the training who have trained by him have got me hyped up.

[@iFlowWithTheGo]

I absolutely agree! I think its very rare for someone to truly face whether his/her art (And also the person practicing that art) REALLY stands up.

[@captainbeefheart1630]

怖い死にたい自殺したい助けて怖い死にたい自殺したい助けて怖い怖い死にたい自殺したい助けて怖い死にたい自殺したい助けて怖い怖い死にたい自殺したい助けて怖い死にたい自殺したい助けて怖い怖い死にたい自殺したい助けて怖い死にたい自殺したい助けて怖い怖い死にたい自殺したい助けて怖い死にたい自殺したい助けて怖い怖い死にたい自殺したい助けて怖い死にたい自殺したい助けて怖い

[@jonesjack5250]

This man is awesome!!!

[@HiramekiDojo]

This just goes to show that some people call searching on youtube "digging", whereas others dedicate their lives to the research and as a result of real digging now teach at a top University in Kyôto.

[@richardmaier]

I think it is important to notice that the Shoninki is from 1681. Thats about 100 years after the Iga no Ran. Its also written by someone from the Kishu domain (this is not Iga and not Koga). It also has a foreword by some Kishu retainer. I dont thing is is wise to use it to judge schools from Iga that trace back to before the Iga no Ran. Also, the writer is known as Fujibayashi Masatake, dont know why Mr Cummins only mentions Natori.

[@DarkSignal59]

why do haters keep saying ninjustu is a fake martial art and that it has only espionage and sabotage techniques and no fighting techniques?

[@JustinPrime85]

"The problem lies with the fact that when people try to build their understanding of historical shinobi no jutsu they do so only from the shinobi manuals themselves, creating an isolated image of a warrior outside of the system. To combat this, anchor in your mind in the fact that shinobi no jutsu is an auxiliary art that is attached to gungaku, it being a very special skill set that is additional to a warrior’s already capable array of abilities. Remember shinobi no jutsu is only for those warriors accepted into the art by a teacher or family member. Thus, a warrior would know his family martial arts, he would know how to go to war as a retainer, but in addition and no matter at what age or social position, if he was good enough, he would learn the ways of the shinobi."

[@MrJ2091957]

Hi, of coarse I do not belive that anyone can become a ninja by reading such scroll's, but I do think that by reading and studying them I can learn much more about what true ninjutsu is, and yes I have read the Shoninki (the one translated by Cummins/Minami) and (my turn to be honest) I found it full of information and of great value.

[@HiramekiDojo]

From which original documents did you find out that Toda sensei died when Takamatsu sensei was 4 years old? I am sure a lot of people would be interested in seeing this breakthrough research. As for Bansenshukai, as what is publicly known, there is both an Iga version and a Koga version, with the writer coming from Iga. And if you think that the Bansenshukai, written by one person, is the end all be all for all ninja ryu in the history of Japan, then you are delusional.

[@HiramekiDojo]

No, Hatsumi sensei has not changed the names of unarmed combat skills in the ryû of which he is Sôke. They are still called koppôjutsu, kosshijutsu, dakentaijutsu, jûtaijutsu, taijutsu, etc. Just like using spear is still called sôjutsu, or sticks is bôjutsu, etc. The Iga Museum, although biased through Kawakami Jinichi, even states that there is koppô (check the japanese section - it has been mistranslated as "ropes"), battô and shuriken. It all depends on the ryû and which era it came from.

[@richardmaier]

Im sorry if I was a bit vague but I meant that those who practised these arts in say the 16th century had no need of scrolls to show them how to fight, this was taught in person to those who needed it. Just like there are no scrolls/manuals on viking fighting. If you wish to see scrolls/books/manuals related to the Bujinkan you most often need to be a part of the organisation and have good connections. These are things not shared openly as you may understand.

[@HiramekiDojo]

Within ninjutsu (i.e. the skills used by those we commonly call ninja), there is of course hand-to-hand combat, just like kenjutsu, sôjutsu, kayakujutsu etc. As for techniques that are "exclusive" to the ninja - you have to understand that a punch or a kick, or a wrist lock or a throw are not exclusive to any martial ryû or style, but often their execution or strategy is different. Each ryû has it's own distinctions. I suggest you read Koyama Ryûtaro's books in japanese for further research.

[@dimonpuma]

Kacem is a cool master!!!

[@richardmaier]

ask yourself this, if shoninki was a secret document from master to student intended only for the close family, why on earth ask some dude who doesnt even practise ninjutsu to write a foreword? Why even have a foreword? Just reading the foreword should tell you a lot about the intended audience and meaning of the book

[@MrJ2091957]

If the Ninja/Shinobi had any special or different ways of combat (as opposed to what they where trained in from their family/clan) I am sure that it would have been mentioned somewhere, yet none is mentioned, even though in their scrolls they reveal their most awsome and secretive ways of what they were trained in.

[@suppakanga]

understanding فهم, تفاهم, إدراك, وفاق, اتفاق, ذكاء

[@ZoranMijic]

Thank you Will

[@HiramekiDojo]

What is called ninjutsu today and for the past couple of centuries is a term for various arts and methods practiced by the ninja. A shinobi back in the sengoku jidai did not go to a "ninjutsu dojo", but he did learn and practice both unarmed and armed fighting - or else he would not have much chance in surviving any war. And for this he did not go to a YMCA, naturally. There have been a lot of ryû held and transmitted by ninja through Japan's history. The shôninki shows a glimpse into ONE.

[@guerrillavanilla]

I've read Zoughari's book and it's quite good.

[@iFlowWithTheGo]

I would love to see this guy have a real fight. Not to see him get beat but to see how effective it is what he is showing.

[@richardmaier]

As promised I checked my german translation and it is the last chapter (not the afterwords) called Rijutsuhô (in the Gemaki section). Within just a few sentences 2 very interesting concepts are mentioned, both connected to martial arts and strategy. The first is Hichô no Kurai and the second is Shinmyôken. Look up how Mr Cummins translated that...

[@HiramekiDojo]

I have the two latest editions of the BRDJ and access to the older. The authors corrected several mistakes, not just in the Bujinkan ryuha of course, and the latest edition is the only one that counts. That is the point with correcting things and releasing new editions, in case you didn't know.

[@HiramekiDojo]

Have you read the entire interview? You can't take one part out of its context to defend your position. He also says: "Takamatsu sensei had three masters. [---] He speaks of them in his autobiography that has never been revealed to the public. [---] I was able to read enough to see that these masters existed and to assure myself of the basis for their existence." And: "Among the densho that Hatsumi sensei received from Takamatsu sensei we find the writing of Ishitani sensei".

[@crushinnihilism]

I actually like Kacem. I don't care about whatever you are wasting your time arguing about. Watch they way he moves....screw the buj politics. His movements seem a lot more realistic and combative than most of the practitioners who are posting countless videos (such as Mountianous...Could be spelled wrong).

[@Sl0b0Dan]

Thank you very much.

[@richardmaier]

Yes, he has. Im sure it doesnt have to do with his "findings" but more to do with his behaviour. Regarding translation. If you have the japanese text (for example Nakashimas book), look at a chapter. Check the length of text in japanese and check the english. Without even knowing the language you can see that he is writing a lot more than what is really in there. The chapter Rijutsuhô for example is translated as "The way of departing from ninjutsu". Where is the word ninjutsu in it?

[@piaobo]

I think if you practice ninpo you should consider the philosophy behind it, then evaluate the techniques behind it. If you practice a form of unarmed combat, armed combat, social engeneering and any tactics of any kind that would help acheive what the ninjas did with great efficiency... and if that technique prooves valuable in a context where the ninjas were immersed and is used with consideration to the essence of their philkosophy, then you are practicing true ninpo or ninjustsu.

[@MrJ2091957]

Hi and thanks, I have been doing some checking on Mr Cummins, it seems that he has upset a lot of bujinkan practitioners, and they have taken a dislike to him, could this be because of the findings that he is publishing? I am also having trouble trying to find professional people who can find any fault in his translations, so far none of them have managed to point out any errors in his translation.

[@gorangron]

Brilliant work!

[@parasdim1]

I'm a great fan of mr. Kacem Zoughari and of his sensei Ishizuka Tetsuji.The video is awesome! I can watch it over and over again. Awful sound though... Is there anything you do about it? If you 're not at home and you don't have speakers, you can hardly hear what Kacem is saying by simply turning the volume to the highest level...

[@MrV777D]

HI from Germany !

[@richardmaier]

Regarding using oral transmission, Kacem has used written transmission mostly. Takamatsu wrote a lot of things so no need to just go on oral tradition

[@MrJ2091957]

Hi, sorry for the delay, but I just noticed that you say that some people call searching on youtube "digging" well yes I suppose it is, you also say that others who dedicate their lives to research ( I guess you mean Dr Kacem) now teach at a top university in Kyoto, that is great news, but I think a point that you are missing is that just like thousands of other people we all cannot dedicate our life's to research, you see lots of us just have a normal jobs and depend on what these pros tell us.

[@kenninast]

Quod erat demonstrandum! :)

[@Creationsofmyown]

" But to respond more directly to your question, yes, and I’m being honest, I have seen the densho and makimono written by Takamatsu sensei. I didn’t only see them in a video, I touched them, I had them in my hands, what I can say is that I had those of the nine schools." "First of all, the densho and makimono were not written by Hatsumi sensei, these are densho and makimono that were written by Takamatsu sensei" and there we have it, the best evidence, is written by takamatsu...

[@MrJ2091957]

Hi, that is how I used to view the Ninja/Shinobi and I also used to believe that the Samurai were different, but now (with the latest research) I know that the Samurai where Ninja/Shinobi, I would recomend checking out the books that Cummins has brought out.

[@HiramekiDojo]

@wreddock There is no reason to ask Mr. Zoughari again - it was a partial transcription of a two hour long interview, where the transcriber mistook the word kaidan for kaiden when Mr. Zoughari was comparing the menkyo system to the steps of a ladder. If you honestly think that he does not know the difference between the two words, then... well... to each his own.

[@piaobo]

There is nothing to argue about.

[@HiramekiDojo]

@wreddock It's not really a coincidence, since pretty much any grading system resembles climbing a ladder... And to a person who does not speak japanese (like the transcriber of the interview) the two words can sound alike. But you are of course free to believe what you want, and if - two years later - this is all you can say about Mr. Zoughari, safely behind your computer, then I am happy this video could at least produce some discussion. Good luck in your practice :)

[@richardmaier]

Dear COMO, are you thinking about the entry for Togakure Ryu? Do you have the book? Have you read the entry? Please let me know on what page it says Takamatsu claimed something. Please also enlighten me on where I can find the list of shinobi. Are you sure you are citing correct sources?

[@richardmaier]

It would be possible but I dont have the book anymore. The parts I checked was in the final chapter. I will check my german translation (which is more accurate) and let you know.

[@TenguTV9]

He does read and write Kanbun and Sosho. And, he is NOT pro-Bujinkan. He follows the facts he has access to. Bujinkan is the public mainstream face. The eco-system. There is much more going on behind closed doors. For the record, there are densho and makimono older than Meiji that are NOT written in Takamatsu Sensei's hand.

[@piaobo]

The ninjas developed long ago, creating a jutsu, an art, a wide set of skill that were relevant to their activities and context. It was a collective phenomenon and of course is not attributable to one man, but to something forged by history itself. Some time, much later, the techniques and knowledge of these arts have been named ninjutsu. Who cares that it wasn't practiced under that name back then...? Authentic "ninpo" or "ninjutsu" goes far beyond how you name it, and what scrolls you read.

[@piaobo]

Of course there is a legacy of what was really in use at that time... This is interesting enough to look for it. But what is the purpose of asking WHAT is ninpo ? That should be answered with time, practice and a sincere persevering heart.

[@HiramekiDojo]

@JBX07 I hope you enjoyed it! :)

[@HiramekiDojo]

The word martial art in itself means an art used in/for war, whether actual fighting or even just intelligence gathering, so saying that ninjutsu is not a martial art is not very clever. But as far as the fighting goes, do you believe that a ninja was completely helpless when faced with a physical conflict? Could he handle weapons? Where did he learn this? Could you perhaps name a Ryû of fighting that a ninja from Iga might have learned? And what kind of techniques might he have practiced?

[@kurisu9]

@wreddock :Join one of his classes or seminars. If meeting him in person, and actually experiencing his skills, does not convince you, then I believe nothing will. After training in the Bujinkan system for over 25 years, it is my opinion that mr. Zoughari's approach to ninjutsu is authentic and genuine. Stop attacking his words, and maybe try an actual physical attack.... after that, mr. Zoughari wil warmly invite you to join his classes.

[@richardmaier]

Are you talking about what Hatsumi sensei calls the collective arts in the Bujinkan? Back in the days it was refered to Togakure Ryu Ninjutsu, Later with the formation of the Bujinkan and the internationalisation of it it went under the name Bujinkan Ninpo Taijutsu later to be changed to Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu. This however, has nothing to do with the name of the ryu-ha. To my knowledge Hatsumi sensei didnt change those.

[@MrJ2091957]

Dr Zoughari should be congratulated on being able to read Kabun and Sosho, and having access to old scrolls as well as being close to Dr Hatsumi, but the part that I do not understand is this, if he has all this information, why can't he or anyone else simply point out a scroll showing ninja hand-to-hand combat?

[@richardmaier]

No, the fact that he has access to many scrolls both from within ninjutsu ryuha and from the outside as well as being close to the soke of said ryuha as well as having met and talked to many of the most prominent japanese budoka of today. Thats what makes him more correct than some brittish dude who doesnt even speak japanese.

[@Creationsofmyown]

"For someone who is all about evidence you sure enjoy throwing around exaggerated statements based on nothing." it seems you are confused.... how can you say my statement is based on nothing, when every koryu organization has given hatsumi the pass.... "I am simply telling you that there are other causes you can aspire to which would actually impact lives." i appreciate your attempt to divert me from continuing to expose the deliberate distortion of ninjutsu history perpetrated by the bujinkan.

[@fabiocesaramato6230]

Sorry my bad english. But the Bujinkan martial arts teaches ninjas and samurais, so the comment in quotes is irrelevant. The same is known as a school of ninjutsu by their way of acting and thinking.

[@MrJ2091957]

Hi, I have done some digging and came across a youtube video of Mr Cummins it is entitled "Exploring the Shoninki-Introduction 1", it has answered some of my questions, it may also answer some of your questions.

[@myronsmith2114]

Steven Hayes 1981 this guy is replicating the book page by page

[@MrJ2091957]

Hi, thanks for the info, do you believe Ninjutsu is a hand-to-hand combat? p.s. could you please name the Jananese researchers who have discovered/found fighting technics that are exclusive to the ninja, have they published any of their findings.

[@richardmaier]

Those who have actually met him and talked to him knows this is not the only information Mr Zoughari is basing his ideas and research on. Just because most documents were written by Takamatsu doesnt mean all were. There is also absolutely no fuzz about what Mr Zoughari himself thinks about the Ryu-ha. He has said many times that all the evidence he has collected leads him to believe firmly they are authentic. If you try to claim something else based on an interview you are misleading.

[@HiramekiDojo]

It behooves you to play less video games and read up a little on Japanese history, if you are interested in discussing it. Have a nice summer! :)

[@CarlosBruguera]

Anyway, it's not that ninjas developed a unique martial arts system, but ninja and samurai where pretty much mixed. Shinobi warriors trained a lot of fighting techniques from samurai tradition and then (through the passage of centuries) those techniques evolved into a form more according to the ways of the ninja. Of course there's not something concrete you can call "ninjutsu" to describe a "style" of fighting, but there's no doubt that ninjas were warrior, quite special warriors by the way.

[@sirupate]

You guys need to this by Professor Stephen Turnbull, a genuine authority of Japan and Mongols The Ninja: An Invented Tradition?

[@Creationsofmyown]

Tatara magazine page 6. John Lindsey in an interview with Tanemura S asks: "Did Takamatsu S always call it Togakure ryu?": "Not at first. When he was associated with the Kuki family he planed? to introduce Kukishin Ryu Ninpo in the form of scrolls and densho. But after the war he distanced himself from the Kuki family and decided not to do? this. then he met Hatsumi? S. and Fukumoto s. Takamatsu S.i decided to teach them Ninpo. That is when he decided? to use the name Ninpo."

[@HiramekiDojo]

Who did you call in the lineage coming from Ishiya/Ishitani? Did you speak to them in japanese? Have you read the Kukishinden Zensho that you refer to? What makes you think that it is a reference bible for the Ishiya/Ishitani line? Again, Mr. Creations, if you are interested in the subject, I suggest you learn japanese and eventually go to Japan to further your studies and build relationships with those who have already dedicated their lives to actual - as in REAL - research in this field.

[@HiramekiDojo]

If it's easier for you to understand, let's just forget about the word ninjutsu. Let's forget about Takamatsu sensei. Do you accept that there were martial ryū that taught armed and unarmed fighting to the people we call ninja in the Iga and Koga regions? Which ones were they? (Or are you holding on to the belief that the ninja only knew how to make bombs and poisons etc and had no martial training?)

[@bigkittysmile]

even Osensei, founder of Aikido, said at age 83, judan level, that he was still learning. are you a legitimate martial arts master? mtnous has skills at the level of shodan. some of his videos show good self-defense, weapons, and punching and kicking abilities. the way he moves is fine.

[@HiramekiDojo]

How do you know this? Were you present then? Or are you talking about written material? How much japanese do you read?

[@HiramekiDojo]

I suggest you go to him and explain where he is lying. Good luck in your practice! :)

[@MrJ2091957]

Hi, could you help clear something, has Dr Hatsumi changed the name of his hand-to-hand combat training? and how is it that the Iga Museum states on their website that Ninjutsu is not a matial art?

[@gekiryudojo]

02:08 I was there London Tai-tai 1987

[@richardmaier]

For the record, the Cummins translation of Shoninki includes many errors. The one section that actually hints to something connected to fighting is so badly translated the original author must be turning in his grave. Funny thing we who practise in the Bujinkan recognized this when Cummins totally missed it.

[@HiramekiDojo]

His grave marker? Have you seen the grave? If not, what are you on about? And again for the documents, do you think that one or three documents (that are publicly availably) are the end all be all for all the ninja ryu in the history of Japan?

[@MrJ2091957]

Hi and thanks, do you know if Dr Zoughari reads Kanbun or Sosho? and if he can why does he use Takamatsu's oral traditions, could it possibly be because he is pro Bujinkan?

[@ramdanetaleb5716]

hi lives in Algeia original masghanem ninjutsu is great art

[@Shinobi-ouss]

Is Ninjutsu A Martial Arts Or A way Of Life? Because I Heard That some Guys Were saying that ninjutsu is not a martial arts and if someone said That He is A Fake Ninja Master?> Please answer :/

[@calypsopiter]

the music is a big misunderstanding...

[@richardmaier]

Regarding Takamatsu and Toda, my advice is to search for reliable sources of information, not those that just repeat what they have heard from others. Surely Toda knew how to handle a sword (would be strange for a japanese martial artist not to dont you think?) but the story I think you are relating to is a good example of mis-information. He did not teach sword publicly according to my source.

[@yokunaides]

There is a lot of mention in the video of war, fighting and combat and what I would like to know is how many real, verifiable fights has the instructor actually had to make claim of the effectiveness of the techniques? I only ask because I am interested in getting into a martial art that has proven its effectiveness - such as Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Muay Thai and Boxing, but I would like to also learn some weapons. It’s easy enough, and I’ve seen it, to make a technique look amazing on a unresisting complacent student and another on someone who is not going to just stand there. So, is there video of at least some sparring during or after class that can be seen so I can make a decision as to whether going to a class will be a waste of time or not? Thanks in advance.

[@tauhid9983]

Martial arts is a journey and Bujinkan is no different....so you have to learn the technique and try it upon resisting opponents to see if it works. All martial arts are different and it works and applies differentially to different ppl...some say can make bujinkan work in their MMA training...some might not be able to. So you gotta see if bujinkan really works or not by yourself, or maybe by asking others if they had experience of being able to use bujinkan in their MMA training.

[@richardmaier]

Again, Please put forward your proof or alternatively if you cant, just go with the latest edition as everyone does. The linage for Togakure Ryu is the same, from the first to the latest edition. It didnt change like you try to make it sound. What has changed is the text that goes along with it. Why would the authors change to a more positive text if they still thought Togakure Ryu was made up?

[@HiramekiDojo]

You really ought to think logically here. Do you believe that Mr. Tanemura would be so thoughtless to "accidentally slip up" and by mistake reveal that Takamatsu sensei made up Togakure ryu? He never says anything was made up, or similar. He just says that Takamatsu sensei didn't teach ninpo, or martial arts under the name Togakure Ryu, to anyone before he met Hatsumi sensei. Again, if you want any truth, learn japanese and get access to the source. Then make up your mind.

[@talljohnmartinez]

Well i'm not too sure but I think that it's mainly the stealth and reconnaissance aspects of combat that the Ninja used is what sets them apart. I think it was viewed as dishonorable and cowardly by Samurai to move through the shadows and assassinate people instead of taking them on in a fair fight. It can be compared to western culture like the US revolutionary war, where British soldiers fought "honorably" in formation while the Americans used guerrilla warfare and shot at them from cover.

[@HiramekiDojo]

What did you expect, that a ninja would leave a note saying: "This guy was killed by a ninja"?

[@MrJ2091957]

Sorry, but I am sure that lots of people would be interested to see scrolls that contained/showed fighting techniques, you also imply that ninjutsu hand-to-hand was passed down from master to student (which is fine if you believe it is hand-to-hand combat) this is where I have a problem, Dr Hatsumi's teacher was Takamatsu and a lot controversy surounds him, people say he constructed what he believed ninjutsu was, then you have his master Toda who people say was a sword master, but no grave.

[@piaobo]

Yep, I agree that Takamatsu's lineneage may not be proovable to anytthing near the real happening of the ninjA. But that's not what I am saying. I rather stress the fact that whatever the name we give it, we now pretty much know what the context was and what kind of skills they used so even if its not directly from their intact ancient scrolls, we know what kind of skills they practiced and why. We now call it ninjutsu, they didnt. I can make no claim about Takamatsu direct lineage. How could I.

[@HiramekiDojo]

The evidence comes from the various ryu's internal history, of which only small elements have been published. If you wish to see it, I suggest you learn japanese and go to the people who own and/or have access to these written documents. If you are not interested, why are you debating it? I did not use any strawman logic in my argumentation. You are taking less than a handful of documents, written by certain individuals from certain ryū, as the absolute and universal gospel truth.

[@JustinPrime85]

What about this history? Lol "Modern Togakure-ryu and various historical claims are taught by Masaaki Hatsumi (Takamatsu's successor) and the Bujinkan organization. Criticism regarding the historical accuracy of the Bujinkan's claims of lineage have arisen from several issues of the Bugei Ryūha Daijiten: The 1978 version of the Bugei Ryūha Daijiten states that Takamatsu's Togakure-ryu "genealogy includes embellishments by referring to data and kuden about persons whose existence is based on written materials and traditions in order to appear older than it actually is."[38] The 1969 version of the Bugei Ryūha Daijiten states that Takamatsu's Togakure-ryu "is a genealogy newly put together by Takamatsu Toshitsugu, who made use of (took advantage of) the popularity of written materials on ninjutsu after the Taishō era" and that "there are many points where it has added embellishments, it has made people whose real existence is based on written records older than is actually the case, and so it is a product of very considerable labor".[39] The 1963 version of the Bugei Ryūha Daijiten states of Takamatsu's Togakure-ryu "this genealogy refers to various written records and oral transmissions and there are many points/places where embellishments have been added and people appearing in the genealogy are also made older than they actually are".[40]

[@CarlosBruguera]

Just some common sense, my friend. How on earth would a spy/assassin survive at that time if he didn't know how to fight?... Those guys put their lives right on the edge, they needed to know how to defend in order to know how to kill. Imagine a modern spy that doesn't know how to shoot a gun...

[@Creationsofmyown]

"From which original documents did you find out that Toda sensei died when Takamatsu sensei was 4 years old?" his grave marker. "I am sure a lot of people would be interested in seeing this breakthrough research." except kacem is refusing to share the location with bujinkan members because then the secret is out... "And if you think that the Bansenshukai, written by one person, is the end all be all for all ninja ryu in the history of Japan" i gave 2 more citations earlier... pay attention.

[@Creationsofmyown]

"I rather stress the fact that whatever the name we give it, we now pretty much know what the context was and what kind of skills they used so even if its not directly from their intact ancient scrolls," here is another stumbling point... most of what we know comes from these manuscripts, none of what we know comes from takamatsu or hatsumi. "We now call it ninjutsu, they didnt." calling something ninjutsu doesn't make it ninjutsu. calling it ninjutsu is all takamatsu ever did.

[@HiramekiDojo]

Good for you that you are so strong in your conviction, and I sincerely hope that you are happy with your beliefs. But your loud cries will not change the vast amount of actual research that others, like Dr. Zoughari, have done. If you wish to debate further, I suggest you go to International Research Center for Japanese Studies in Kyoto and present your case. Don't expect to be taken seriously though, unless you can present actual research and knowledge of the language. Good luck!

[@richardmaier]

He has. On numerous occations actually. So has Hatsumi sensei. Maybe you are thinking of scrolls from the golden age of ninjutsu? Not so surprising. There was no need for them. Unarmed fighting, especially when it relates to ninjutsu is something taught man to man not by reading scrolls and books. Who would be interested in such scroll?

[@DarkSignal59]

or : what makes you think they found all the scrolls yet?

[@yishihara55527]

Much better than Mr. Muscle Shirt and other Bujinkan clowns.

[@Junimar75]

Seria mais legal se tivesse legenda em português. mas o video é bem bacana.

[@MrJ2091957]

If you want to find out what ninjutsu really is, then just read "True Path of the Ninja".

[@crushinnihilism]

I am by no mean a master, but I have been around. He is very good with some weapons, even more so than other blackbelts that I have met in person. That being said, the way he moves is to stiff and rigid for shodan. I'd say he moves resemble someone a rank, or two, away from shodan.

[@rshadow85]

I wonder what you move like?