Dr Layne Norton gets a "D" in Lipid Energy

Meta of RCTs paper: www.sciencedirect.com/science...
Meta of RCTs video: • NEW STUDY Proves it's ...
OreoVsStatin paper: www.mdpi.com/2218-1989/14/1/73
OreoVsStatin video: • NOT A JOKE: Oreos Can ...
Layne's video: • Oreos Lower Cholestero...
A BIG thank you to Mr. Andrew Degryse for his amazing work on my new thumbnails.

[@hotbeefman69]

Layne is a great example of why getting educated in the field of nutrition doesn't necessarily mean you understand the hard science behind it.

[@xumatyt]

Nutrition beyond very shallow understanding requires diving deeper into metabolism and biochemistry of different body processes, so if you stop at that very shallow level you soon find yourself arguing from authority because you just don't know how that thing your learned works just a single level deeper.

[@user-pq3vd6oc1c]

"hard science nutrition" is an oxymoron lmao, there's just so little science in this field that can be trusted, even less if you take into account vast conflicts of interest that exist.

[@cornstar1253]

​@@user-pq3vd6oc1c Thanks for stating a fact.

[@mordechaicohen1911]

‏He is oiled by big pharma

[@ketontrack]

Actually, Layne is a great example of a person who thinks that because he has a degree in something, he knows everything and that he can act as an a**. I wonder what that makes the people who have been hosting him for years (see PA)

[@veronicaheaney3464]

Personally, I think you were being kind giving him a “D” in lipid knowledge.

[@brucemckay6615]

Yeah…. I’d more inclined to award an F for f***wit….

[@emilyb.2176]

I have lost all respect and have stopped listening to anything Layne touts. I think he's an arrogant bully. Honestly I could care less about his interpretation of your work. Your studies and the information you are trying to share with the public is so important and helpful. I truly believe this will one day change the way we see the whole lipid/cholesterol model. I am a LMHR and finally have an explanation for what has been going on with me. Thanks for all you do and keep up the great work!

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

'arrogant bully' seems like an accurate description based on the behavioral data provided

[@MPiKMS72]

Pathological bully.

[@BigDaddyBostin]

Oreos are healthy ❤

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

@@MPiKMS72 hard to argue with that

[@KingRockets]

I could have told you that back when he cheated on his pregnant ex-wife and then gaslit her on social media. Dude is a complete narcissist, just a terrible person.

[@shellderp]

Layne's goal is social media attention, drama works. Your audience isn't into that, we want to follow your research and learn the truth together.

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

Thank you. I do need to set the record straight on occasion.

[@angelsjoker8190]

True. I do like that he apparently tries to correct misinformation, I don't necessarily like his presentation. His way of trashing others probably mainly appeals to people who don't want to be educated in the first place, but who want to feel superior over others.

[@gaile716]

Late to the party but just said the same thing to Nick.

[@jimmystewart2814]

I couldn't agree more, Nick! Thank you for calling out this arrogant bully!

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

you're welcome

[@jefffaircloth8603]

The bigger issue is people constantly driving his publicity. He is a troll, a marketer, and he doesn’t care about the data. He wants views, arguments, and controversy. He repeatedly shows this with his way of interacting with others. If everyone stopped giving him attention he would fade away.

[@jaeLAX23]

Exactly. He's in the KZbin game to make money.

[@Corkfish1]

And you think this guy is different huh?

[@grumpyinbrooklyn6347]

@@jaeLAX23 Nothing wrong with that, to be fair!

[@jaeLAX23]

@Corkfish1 Nick is definitely different, he is not selling anything.

[@grumpyinbrooklyn6347]

​@@jaeLAX23Self promotion is also "sales!"

[@johntatman9168]

Layne Norton is a clown. Lame Norton was Bart Kay's moniker for him and I believe it fits him well. I suspect Dr Don Layman is embarrassed by his stupidity. I have made several comments about his debating you knowing he will never agree to that. Keep up the great work Dr Norwitz you are one of the few researchers we can all trust.

[@catcan221]

Layne will never debate Nick because he knows he is intellectually out-matched. I think Layne would rather challenge Nick to a weight-lifting competition. 😂

[@johntatman9168]

@@catcan221 Now that I could see!!!!!

[@hyperion_carnivore]

Bart is a freaking savage.

[@passionpourelegance]

The roast was hard on this one. My bbq is still smoldering. This was epic.

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

HA!

[@hardtruth2039]

Just because he has a degree doesn’t mean that he wasn’t indoctrinated with the wrong information. That or he’s been bought off.

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

This is true

[@BrunoMalmann]

most likely bought off, he defends seed oils with passion.

[@jakubchrobry3701]

​@@nicknorwitzPhD You will have to provide an example where you believe Layne is "indoctrinated with the wrong information," other than his review of the LMHR data which is said was "great," I'm not a fan of Layne, but maybe I've been "indoctrinated" with the same wrong information. Layne is middle of the road. He goes after vegan diets, low fat diets just as much as any other diet. I guess he's part of the establishment.

[@wheelofcheese100]

@@BrunoMalmannThat was ultra disturbing

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

@@jakubchrobry3701 Let me clarify, the statement was "[having a] degree doesn’t mean that he wasn’t indoctrinated with the wrong information." I meant this is true. It's simply a true statement. It's not actually an accusation of an individual, although there is an implication. It's a statement you could apply to me as well. I have a PhD, but that doesn't mean what I say is gospel.

[@cbook7096]

Layne is a Statin Island guy.

[@onepunchflan3071]

Statin Island I love it 😂😂

[@nicholasfevelo3041]

I am from there! Is he really from there?

[@AliceFarmer-bg4dw]

Are you serious? I don’t like the guy. But is that true?

[@terrydevaney8601]

Not true.. Illinois

[@cbook7096]

@@terrydevaney8601 It was a pun. Statin/Staten.

[@ryanunknown4181]

Thank you, thank you, thank you Nick! There are a lot of people who I disagree with who don’t rub me the wrong way but Norton is exactly what your colleague said: a bully. I would call him something worse but let’s just keep things simple. Norton has long been needing a major humbling.

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

Agreed

[@bobkiaie]

We need him to call out all these carnivore, keto, vegan, unqualified zealots who make all or nothing claims about the narratives they’re pushing. Those people need to be humbled And I really don’t think he was harsh about this topic and in fact quite humble, especially for Layne. He didn’t say anything to discredit this research and in fact did praise it But I do agree though that it is frustrating that he won’t accept a discussion. It would be immensely beneficial for us viewers that are not formally educated in nutritional science.

[@bobkiaie]

@@codyfrisch4378 I don’t see your lives as utter BS lol. But I think carnivore influencers declaring vegetables or fruits are bad for you and it’s the way humans are meant to live is BS. It works for some, makes other feel horrible and there is zero data to support it long term. Just like being vegetarian, just like being vegan.

[@Macgee826]

​@@bobkiaiehumble are you having a f****** girafffe the boy has major delusions of grandeur!

[@wallacebonner7939]

@@codyfrisch4378 Religion has saved the lives of many people, no matter the religion, yet each insists they're the only 'correct' religion. Diet zealots are similar and with just about as much fact to back it up. As today's SM victim, Dr. Norton likes to say, when protein and calories are equated, all diets are equally effective. I feel the same way about these diets as I do or people saved by religion, I'm glad it worked for you, but I don't need you to try and save me with it.

[@PursuitAthleticTV]

Nick, this is great. So well done. You are a stand up guy. Lane, on the other hand, is an arrogant "know it all" clown of epic proportions. Thank you Doc. Keep up the great work. It is SO appreciated!

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

Thanks!

[@mjr7991]

He declined a debate because he’s not interested in the truth or understanding. He is simply seeking attention. It doesn’t serve this purpose to debate you especially if it could lead to him looking intellectually inferior.

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

Not an unreasonable hypothesis...

[@mjr7991]

@@nicknorwitzPhD which is why he is not deserving of your attention or feedback. Stop addressing him, he is not your concern. Your mind is better served elsewhere.

[@thehealthofash]

​@@mjr7991 I disagree, this is very refreshing content

[@mjr7991]

@@thehealthofash my view is Nick doesn’t need to convince everyone, just the right people. Layne isn’t one of them. Like everyone, Nick has limited time and resources. If he doesn’t do a lot of these then fine I guess. But he does have a huge task at hand that will likely take several years to breakdown barriers. Keep in mind the whole sat fat story began in the 1960s and is still with us today despite advances in our ability to monitor and track various elements of heart and lipid health. The medical industrial complex will fight him all the way and there is no guarantee he will prevail.

[@Macgee826]

First comment agree 100% anyone that knows their stuff bionic Lane will run a mile using his powers off course.

[@Wings_nut]

Lame Norton and Attia are birds of a feather. They make their careers as YT influencers. So when someone comes along with a significant game changer in the world of metabolic health, they suffer from classic professional jealousy by making others look bad to make themselves look good. And it's backfiring on them.

[@erxishang61]

Norton for sure, Attia i guess significantly more mild based off what I've seen

[@onepunchflan3071]

​@@erxishang61 yeah attia is not as bad as Norton but is still a close minded shill imo. He was rude and acted without class when he had the well respected professor seyfried on his podcast.

[@Joseph1NJ]

Yes they're both social media influencers but Dr Attia works in a very, very lucrative specialty longevity practice.

[@hlits6310]

Thank you so much Nick for what you do you and your colleagues change lives around the world for the better

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

appreciate this!

[@tnelly6588]

Norton is a self-generated social media character and "influencer," desperate to be considered a true academic. He fundamentally lacks the ability to be humble, nuanced, thoughtful and reflective. Too bad we live in a time when only the loud and brash get clicks. Sadly, the average American is also complicit and has fully lost the ability to find the signal through the noise. The movie 'Idiocracy' is playing out in real life.

[@y00t00b3r]

brash figures like this are self-limiting. Example: I used to be a fan of Peter Attia. No longer, as his character became obvious over time.

[@B.Rights]

Layne is a prime example of how broken the field of 'nutrition' is - I get it, people have spent years studying 'nutrition' and it is a tough pill to swallow that most of what you learned was completely wrong.

[@laneodom4355]

It’s because biochemistry and nutrition is controlled by biophysics and light. Layne has no earthly idea about this and probably doesn’t want to know because it would completely crumble his paradigm.

[@VegetaPrinceOfSaiyans]

​@@laneodom4355Can you elaborate on what you mean regarding the biophysics and light part? This sounds interesting.

[@hyperion_carnivore]

The field of nutrition, like almost all fields involving health science, is highly compromised by corporate influence. It's no longer science, it's marketing.

[@wallacebonner7939]

@@VegetaPrinceOfSaiyans 4 days later and no response, so my guess it's something he heard in a podcast that sounded cool and never actually understood, so your question will forever float in the void.

[@VegetaPrinceOfSaiyans]

@@wallacebonner7939 Yeah it seems a lot of people back down when pushed for further information or citations. Or just endlessly deflect.

[@davidmeloche3563]

Asking for Layne to be humble is like asking for a sound wave to sit still. It wouldn't be what it is if it did so.

[@douglasx6915]

Norton and Attia are the same personality type. Their mental capacity lacks any ability to admit being wrong. You can actually see it in their face.

[@SullivanKelly85]

your intuition serves you well

[@Ryan-wx1bi]

I mean... Layne has videos where the whole subject is times he got stuff wrong, but sure go off

[@jimmymuthami7130]

I am waiting for a tweet where he admits he was wrong this time. Just admitting he got LMHR wrong, he won't!@@Ryan-wx1bi

[@grumpyinbrooklyn6347]

@@Ryan-wx1bi That's great! Looks like he is due for a few more of those then!

[@markaguilera493]

Attia has changed his stance on quite a few things so what are you going on about?.. Showing the straw in the others eyes?.

[@EverydayElixer]

Just please don’t change the title of this video. You often will post and flip-flop on the title if it is too controversial. Just stand by it. Great video.

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

Thanks! Glad you like the title.

[@stephensinclair8894]

Nicely done. The algorithm sent me his review; I try to keep an open mind, but I did think his response was weak, and I wondered what you would make of it. It was nice to see some of my thoughts reflected in your response, particularly that your n=1 result is not out of the blue, it's predicted by the model. That's a very different thing.

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

Yay algo!!!

[@KenJackson_US]

Oh the incredible irony of touting data over feelings while wearing feelings on his sleeve.

[@gotem1725]

I listened to about 5 minutes of him talking to Thomas DeLour the other day and had to turn it off after seeing how emotional, sarcastic and condescending he was, right off the bat. It seems he cares more about his ego than objective reality

[@wheelofcheese100]

Same

[@themasterofanalyticsandwie1342]

Yeah Layne is sadly one of many nowadays who only have a degree to make it easier for him to win argument, not caring if his points are actually true, this is an really pathetic ego especially since many believe him despite him not caring about the whole truth and only what benefits his ego of being the one "who knows"

[@RevolutionNatty]

Dr. Mike is also the same way on a Lot of nutrition topics

[@mikeadb]

Nick thank you for the candour and de-escalation mindset you have brought in trying to get people back to the data and science and away from the passion. It's very common when the fight-flight response kicks in that logic goes away in favour of feelings. Perhaps with the regrettable events Layne is experiencing right now that he isn't thinking as straight as he could be.

[@survivaloptions4999]

That's the most egregious example of Appeal to Authority I remember seeing. Compensating much? Keep up the good fight, Nick.

[@robski7644]

Thanks Nicholas! Finally someone calling this tool out. He does such an insane disservice to your average person trying to research nutrition topics by focusing solely on being contemptuous towards others doing good work.

[@jeffschollmeyer5247]

Great job with this response!!!

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

Thanks!

[@PT121551]

I also commented on his video that he did not explain his position using the lipid energy model.

[@robertphillips93]

For many personalities, including Dr Norton, it's clear that the notion of a paradigm shift is tantamount to moving their sand castle . . .

[@SimplyHuman186]

Beautifully spoken, fellow human.

[@TheToplessChef-hf5eb]

Just curious you’re referring to a paradigm shift in which area? The topic discussed in this video or something else? Because I notice Layne Norton dismisses anything which is different from what he learnt. Anything from fasting for weight loss, carnivore diet, or the carbohydrate insulin model instead of energy balance model.

[@brianhopkins5904]

Thank you for this Nick. Once again, awesome job. I stopped following Layne almost 6 months ago because I got tired of his whiny approach and ignorant bullying. I’m like many others here… I’m just interested in the truth and the data and the science. His treatment of quite a few people I admire (including Dr. Paul Saladino), in my view, has been completely juvenile. I couldn’t take it anymore and stopped listening to him. I’ve concluded he’s just not a super bright guy. So I’m glad you did this post. Keep it up. I love all of it.

[@RC-tm8jo]

It is very likely that Layne has NPD. He can only improve if he becomes self-aware or diagnosed (in which people with NPD rarely get diagnosed because they don't think anything is wrong with them and they rarely ever seek help) and gets long-term therapy for it.

[@SullivanKelly85]

Spot on

[@Macgee826]

And even when they do get therapy it can make them better at faking it unfortunately.

[@petrafied99]

Thanks for your thoughtful and measured response, Dr Nick. I stopped listening to that bully a long time ago. His shirt should read Attention > Data.

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

That's how he is behaving

[@btudrus]

5:08 "drastic drop of LSD from Oreos" - I'm thinking about what Layne was taking at that time 😂😂😂😂

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

Good for a giggle.

[@y00t00b3r]

@@nicknorwitzPhD maybe his parents "did too much LDS in the sixties".

[@Fuzzira]

"Trust me bro, I'm a pro bodybuilder"

[@Mallchad]

An sufficiently educated individual would probably not take up bodybuilding without atleast making it clear it's a personal thing and not recommended cuz you know. overworking your body probably isn't healthy

[@VegetaPrinceOfSaiyans]

​@@MallchadI don't think anyone becomes a pro bodybuilder with the intent of health. Especially in the untested realm.

[@Mallchad]

@@VegetaPrinceOfSaiyans A professional bodybuilder? probably not. way too many people think that casual bodybuilding is a good idea for health though

[@VegetaPrinceOfSaiyans]

@@Mallchad Physical activity is inarguably a healthy thing, we have tons of research on it. And from what I've seen, more coming on muscle strength associations with longevity.

[@Mallchad]

@@VegetaPrinceOfSaiyans exercise? can be, to varying degrees, depending on the exercise. Bodybuilding isn't one of them. as far as I can tell I really don't like associative studies though they do not provide much insight.

[@richardmitchell7836]

Perfectly done!!

[@henryancheta6668]

Mr Norwitz, thanks for your videos. I recently have embraced Keto diet for my self. It is working. Now I hear your insights regarding the science of it. Videos like yours make it possible for the truth not to be hindered to the public. Thanks again.

[@christopherbenoit1002]

Dude that’s how you dismantle an argument, hats off to you sir. Too many ppl attack aggressively in videos like this and it turns into a highschool shit talking match instead of “here’s why this person is wrong.”

[@sebastianhoracioforondagon8813]

Layne is the clear example of what the big Richard Feiyman said: "Never confuse education with intelligence, you can have a PhD and still be an idiot" . He blocked me from everywhere because I was trying to debate him that CICO is a poor model in humans , and that LEM is a great investigation area.

[@robbiasetti4678]

He blocked me too.

[@erastvandoren]

He was right to block you

[@Ruudwardt]

Sorry to ruin your fairy tale but Feynman was a bully, probably more so than Mr Norton. He was more methodical, prepared his pranks better and truly humbled his adversaries. The very fact that he called anyone idiot is a big clue :) And I think he was awesome if only because of that.

[@andreasmelkersson3592]

@sebastianhoracioforondagon8813 Because Bart Kay regurgitators are quite tiring, that was probably the reason.

[@robbiasetti4678]

Regurgitation is warranted when it’s factual. @@andreasmelkersson3592

[@snobound]

If you open a medical diagnostics textbook an look up Dunning Kruger Effect you'll see a photo of Layne.

[@lerafa]

... and remember kids: don't take your oreos or your LSD will drop to a level where you can't hallucinate feelings over data

[@chargermopar]

No wonder a lot of us assume that PhD actually means Dunning Kruger. My experience when I taught at the local college was the more advanced the degree the less common sense was available. How does that go, science advances one funeral at a time?

[@GameofTrees]

Ordinarily, critical answers do little as they tend to result in “tit for tat” bickering, however I think you are responding in the vain of the ancient wisdom, “answer a fool as his folly deserves, lest he be wise in his own eyes.” You are leveraging these critiques in a tactful and documented manner that will cause others to be cautious about speaking critically. The reason, I believe, that some of these folks won’t debate openly with you. Great job Nick. Love your work! From one LMHR to another 😃

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

Love this response!

[@craigsimmo83]

Love this - spot on!!

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

Thanks ❤

[@russbrown6453]

Yes Dr Norwitz. Your lookin real good. Stethoscope, scrubs etc. Like an MD! Don't sweat Lame Norton. If he has any questions, or expresses any skepticism, just refer him to Prof Bart Kay. He will take care of him...

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

Don't worry. I didn't sweat this... took me 15 minutes during lunch at the hospital. ~30 if you include watching Layne's coverage on 2X speed. Not a big effort. I outsource editing.

[@peterfialka5315]

Just lose the prof title. Dude is just a fraud

[@andreasmelkersson3592]

@russbrown6453 Bart Kay is not who you think he is. He has made erroneous mistakes in the past. Yes, he has. To people with zero competence, he looks extremely competent. To anyone with intermediate level understanding of stats and science? He looks like a clown, partly. Proving that Bart has misunderstood certain things doesn't require a debate. What's required is only common sense, application of logic and a decent reasoning mind.

[@markaguilera493]

​@@andreasmelkersson3592The funniest thing about BK is when he claims others have an axe to grind, not him.

[@andreasmelkersson3592]

@@markaguilera493 Yup! I think his audience overestimates Bart's competence and intelligence. Bart is by no means the guy who you ask when you wanna be absolutely sure about something. I think his diagnosis traps him. Not saying this to be rude. But his diagnosis prevents him from interpreting concepts from a multi-dimensional point of view.

[@MrShafikAmin]

Excellent work, keep going.

[@biodivers5294]

Game, Set, and Match 👍

[@robyn3349]

Thank you!!!

[@sevenw5]

Layne is the smartest Guy in the room, just ask him.

[@mertonhirsch4734]

What do you think about the hypothesis that lean mass hyper-responders (and possibly others) may have lower LDL on oreo's because the percentage of glycosylated and oxidized "LDL" fatty acids rises signaling the liver to reduce LDL to compensate, and conversely that people with lower percentages of oxidized and glycosylated LDL can have higher LDL levels without it being a problem?

[@AndreBettinson]

Thanks for actually representing the real newer data and explanations of this model. Also while holding back from Ad-Hominem unlike Layne. I get that's his schtick at this point, but it's just childish. Especially because he has dragged his feet through the sand with newer developments and theories. Some holes he tries to poke are warranted. But others is just him misrepresenting realistic ways of thinking, undermining new potential ways of understanding. Top notch man as always.

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

Appreciate you!

[@zuofu-ziv]

Hey Nic, I like your content and your attitude. I am also interested in learning more about science, do you have recommendations of books in areas such as human physiology, biochemistry, and statistics? Also, do you consider teaching us how to read scientific paper from time to time? That would be hugely beneficial to the public, otherwise, you cannot possibly debunk all bad papers, might as give the public the tool.

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

"o you consider teaching us how to read scientific paper from time to time?" -- will consider... it's the kind of this that comes with experience and it's hard to do a 'master class' on, but thanks for the comment. It's not the first time someone has suggested this. But it's something that, if done, would need to be a course

[@adammenhennett]

This is bloody brilliant, bravo. 😂

[@btudrus]

From my understanding, TG are rising in a chronically hyperinsulinaemic state ONLY AFTER the fat cells starts getting trouble in "sucking in" these TG and storing these...

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

Maybe Layne should offer you his PhD...

[@LouBalestriere]

Hello Nicholas, I've been enjoying and learning from your videos. I'm a fit and healthy 57 year old who follows a low carb diet. While it's not ultra low it's between 50-75 grams of carbs/day. My recent blood work indicated triglycerides of 35, HDL of 93 and LDL of 160. While I don't technically fit the "textbook" definition of LMHR because my LDL is below 200, is the definition flexible enough so I could be considered to have a relatively healthy lipid panel? Of course my cardiologist is recommending statins, which I'm reluctant to take because my HBA1C is 5.7 and I don't want my insulin resistance to get worse. But, maybe my A1C numbers are artificially skewed high because I take high doses of vitamin C daily. That's a conversation for another forum, however.

[@DrGammaMindset]

Great post

[@JWB671]

Low carb cousin just had a massive heart attack age 42, lean and fit athlete. Only lipid measure out of range was LDL.

[@zsuzsuspetals]

I've read a few of these cases over the years in low carb forums. It admittedly scares me as someone who has all good numbers (weight, bp, lipid panel) except for LDL. 😐

[@erastvandoren]

According to biochemistry, high LDL-C alone is sufficient to drive atherosclerosis. It's all about the rate of LDL traffic across the endothelium, and LDL concentration is the major factor for that.

[@ketolomics]

@JWB671 Have "your cousin" contact Nick immediately! If documented, this would make an extremely interesting case report. Sensational! How long was "your cousin" following a strict, whole food, keto diet? Days? Months? Years? This person, if this case can actually be verified in an actual living person, would be a great asset to science. Don't wait! Call now! A ketogenic diet typically enhances cardiovascular function across the board - from inflammation to vascular endothelial tight junctions to blood pressure to vascular endothelial stem cell quiescence to hormone function - it makes "your cousin" possibly one of the most intriguing patients we have heard of. Can't wait to hear more of the details about this!

[@andrewrivera4029]

Layne is what polite folk call a charlatan.

[@erikaparo]

Well said Dr. Nick. Data over feelings!

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

I feel like I should get some of the revenue from those shirt sales, lol!

[@erikaparo]

Be a distributor and then I will buy one from you. Hahaha.

[@JosephVanPelt]

Well done!

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

Cheers!

[@TheShepdawg9]

...do you need a stethoscope for this presentation?

[@jp7357]

Your messaging is resonating more and more with me .. the Oreos prediction was cool. That’s not to say I’m giving up my statins .. I’d be too worried about plaque build up …

[@sdjohnston67]

Excellent.

[@tomasareas]

Never heard about this guy, but I'll tell you something: people I know who emphasize messages like "Data > feelings" or "I don't have opinions, I just consume data" are usually very very sensitive with most of their feelings and emotions.

[@Frank_Jones314]

Can anyone help me understand the information in this video? The content seems too technical for my understanding. I understand the criteria for a LMHR, but this being my first time hearing the phrase, I do not know what that actually means. Is it good or bad to be a LMHR? Does being a LMHR cause problems for people trying to use CICO? What exactly is the LEM and how should it be applied to weight loss or health? Are there some other videos I should have watched first to better understand this one? (This is the first Nicholas Norwitz Video I've watched).

[@kuna129]

:) Could you please make a video about of how statins work, and how they would affect a healthy person on keto diet?

[@bruce8443]

Well said!

[@ShaunCharkowick]

I know you love lipids, but can you make video on electrolyte mixes ?

[@gray45374]

Layne has embarrassed himself. This was so avoidable. So much bravado and bluster. He really could do with a touch of humility. Well delivered on this, Nick. I admire the tone you & Dave have taken throughout this. You're much more patient than most would be!

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

Appreciate it

[@thehealthofash]

Great video

[@MAJ0R_TOM]

I'm really enjoying the Carnivores vs Layne arc. Where will it go next?

[@ArcoZakus]

Maybe Dr. Norton will gain some humility? (I am not holding my breath.)

[@jeffrey4577]

I concur! I wouldn't have as polite if I gave a detailed review of him

[@elizabethwilliams8109]

I think its a good idea not to let these folks get away with misinterpreting, misrepresenting your work!

[@dogphlap6749]

Dear Nicholas Norwitz, please continue in your reasonable manner and don't allow Dr Norton to bait you into an immodest response. Best regards.

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

that's the plan!

[@Corkfish1]

Can't wait for Layne's response.

[@NelsonRazo]

NICE! More like this, please, Nick. :D

[@Ronlawhouston]

Data are nice but often when it comes to interpretation of data we can bring in things like feelings. I have noticed an association between really big muscles and a really big ego. What should we make of this association?

[@_________9996]

Why did you pick Oreos, whose third and fourth ingredients are palm and canola oil? Why not an all-sugar candy, considering that the hypothesis hinged on 'adding carbohydrates'?

[@andredaedone7732]

Most nutritionists that I know that have huge customers haven't lost any weight, that I can notice. Most of them are pushing carbs. I am at the gym 6 days a week, a carnivore, and 68 years old.

[@markaguilera493]

And they also push fat.

[@vegeta5402]

Love this channel and the information it provides, but I love it even more for how you fired back at Layne. Especially after his bully antics against everyone lowcarb, keto, carnivore, or animal based.

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

I don't like to attack, but I will defend data and I don't like bullies

[@ArcoZakus]

@@nicknorwitzPhD, "I don't like to attack ..." But you do it so well, and are (unfortunately) given so many opportunities to demonstrate that.

[@vegeta5402]

@ArcoZakus indeed 100% agreed! Honestly, like a well orchestrated symphony of attacks that deserves a standing ovation.

[@ArcoZakus]

@@vegeta5402, Well, I don't think that the "well orchestrated symphony of attacks ... deserves a standing ovation", but the responses from Dr. Norwitz that I have seen might.

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

Thanks@@ArcoZakus

[@Kuba-nk8zg]

Spot on!

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

Thanks.

[@faizankazi99]

I am interested in how this story will develop long term. Regardless of whoever is right, science shall win!

[@polibm6510]

Layne is a breathing Dunning Kruger effect.

[@JesseStarks]

Right on Nick. Keep it up.

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

As high as a falcon on speed! (sorry, maybe too much there... Saturday Morning Sillies)

[@sadtosuccess]

You can't expect a highly narcistic person to admit when they are wrong or listen to what someone else is telling them, that's not how it works. He is right, you are wrong and he will do whatever mental gymnastics he needs to do, whilst avoiding you because you are clearly rational and highly knowledgeable on the subject, in order to maintain that fuzzy warm delusion. If you expect him to engage in a reasonable and rational fashion you will be sorely disappointed. The way you are handling this is extremely professional and educational for the rest of us, so thank you very much for taking the time to do that. NB I use the term narcissistic in a descriptive way, I am not diagnosing. I an not saying he has NPD as some people will likely assume. It's similar to saying someone is melancholic vs someone is depressed. Calling someone narcissistic does not mean I am diagnosing them with NPD, any more than calling someone melancholic is a diagnosing someone with depression. Everyone with NPD is narcissistic but not everyone who is narcissistic has NPD.

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

"The way you are handling this is extremely professional and educational for the rest of us, so thank you very much for taking the time to do that. " - thanks... P.S. I love that you use 'nota bene'

[@billrobinson198]

Layne - Intellectual standard? Hahahahahahahahahahaha!

[@theparadisesnare]

Why do you have a goddamn stethoscope on man lmao

[@DrJinSung]

Because he is in Harvard Medical School.

[@reinerschafer1708]

I stopped clicking on anything that has Layne Norton's name on it quite a while back, this video excluded obviously. I've recognized him as a bully for some time. Layne seems to like being the smartest person in the room, or at least pretend to be. The reason he will not debate Nick is because in a room with the two of them, he would clearly be the least intelligent by a large volume. Some people get their 15 minutes of fame and with efficient marketing, extend it over a lifetime. Layne seems to be one of those people.

[@watchdogdb]

I'm so glad I found this video! I have had some sideways responses from Layne after asking what I thought were relevant questions I posted in his comments on some of his videos. I unsubscribed to his channel as I feel he is extremely condescending to say the least, I guess now bully makes a lot of sense. It's very rare to achieve records in a sport and stay humble, maybe arrogance, not confidence, is part of the formula to perform at a high level in powerlifting? Thank you for sticking to science! As someone who was 280LBS in 2020, now 180 about 15% BF, I'm always looking to educate myself with a calm, rational look at the facts.

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

GO YOU!!!

[@dsonyay]

I like how Layne says “ I literally have a PhD”. LoL. Literally. He’s a tool. When somebody says that to me, I usually just turn off, And move on. keep in mind Layne is just a nutritionist as if that means something these days

[@ArcoZakus]

@dsonyay, "... a nutritionist as if that means something these days" It certainly DOES mean something to me these days: "The origins of the anti-meat message with Dr. Gary Fettke - Diet Doctor Podcast" -- Diet Doctor 2019-10-08 ( 55: 29 ) ( Search: 8e1hoIFzn4Y ) "Belinda Fettke - 'Nutrition Science: How did we get here?' " -- Low Carb Down Under (dietitians) 2019-11-09 ( 23: 03 ) ( Search: FTe-eitOJGA "3 Things to Know about Registered Dietitians! [Michelle Hurn, RD]" -- KenDBerryMD 2023-04-04 ( 48: 41 ) ( Search: ut7lZP3QHrc

[@petesears6910]

Hi Nic, is that a Littmans 3 classic?

[@2GGop]

Offtopic but are there estimates for which % of the population are LMHR?

[@rpf34]

Dr. Norton make a mistake in the video saying that LDL cause damage to the endothelium, that how little he knows about the pathophysiology of atherosclerosis because the insult to the endothelium is due to the inflammation and the LDL get trapped with the cells involved in the "fixing". Keep doing a Great job Dr Norwitz

[@brett6468]

Correct. If LDL damaged the endothelium then we would see the same problem in veins that are seen in the arteries. LDL particles travel through both blood vessels. Veins have the same endothelium as arteries. But atherosclerosis does not happen in the veins.

[@Mallchad]

yeah. what a genius. LDL damages the endothelium that's _supposed_ to be permeable to lipids so it can shuttle nutrients _rolls eyes_ it's also not supposed to be oxidised which is fairly significant

[@hazynpeterson4083]

hilarious....thanks Nick

[@Theqpom]

Nutritionists and medical professionals are going to have a real uphill battle debating with real, evidence based science. This is a legendary breakthrough forming in front of our eyes. Blessings.

[@Justinegallows]

No it's not. Low carb diets are unhealthy. That's why it increases ldl. Mainting a healthy body weight doesn't undermine high ldl

[@MichaelGGarry]

What BS. All this biased clown showed was that eating carbs was GOOD FOR PEOPLE. Funny for a Keto prick.....

[@josephannett3471]

Probably why Bart Kay calls him "Lame Norton." LOL

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

Not sure name calling is productive. I'm not a Layne fan, but prefer to deconstruct his arguments.

[@EhurtAfy]

I think it's important to remember that most people won't listen to information unless it's packaged in a digestible way. Layne is abrasive, but he gets people's attention and he debunks a lot of the low-hanging fruit such as the terrible nutrition and exercise misinformation from other KZbinrs, chiropractors, and gurus. In longer interviews, Layne shows that he cares about being accurate and not misrepresenting data as much as possible and he remains teachable. I used to not like Layne Norton and he won me over after awhile. It's important to examine multiple sources of credible information and all things, so I definitely take everything Layne says with a grain of salt. More than anything, a proper explanation usually takes hours, it's basically impossible to condense information without misrepresenting or omitting something. I love how PHDs are able to have open discourse and give correction to each other here on KZbin, it's a great thing! It's a shame to hear Layne is being resistant to said correction from peers

[@ausmiku]

We appreciate that the "Oreo vs statins" study result was not explained because it was not understood. Many tests have results which are unexplained, but usually some health influencer will "know" the answer. Using "selective data" to verify opinions and conjecture is the curse of health videos.

[@markandrews1219]

An updated and more accurate t-shirt for Layne would replace the greater than sign with a double arrow 😂

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

Data ⬅️➡️ emotions

[@brett6468]

If LDL damaged the endothelium then we would see the same problem in veins that are seen in the arteries. LDL particles travel through both blood vessels. Veins have the same endothelium as arteries. But atherosclerosis does not happen in the veins.

[@Corkfish1]

That's because arteries are subject to much greater pressure and those shear forces are what contribute to arterial damage.

[@Corkfish1]

@@brett6468 LDL is not the culprit, but excess LDL is.

[@brett6468]

@@Corkfish1 Correct. Which means LDL is not a culprit of cardiovascular disease.

[@brett6468]

@@Corkfish1 Disagree. There are many examples of people like Nicholas Norwitz who have LDL levels in the hundreds yet have no heart disease. And there are also many people with low LDL levels who still have heart disease and die from heart attacks.

[@Corkfish1]

@@brett6468 of course there are exceptions. Go ahead and tell a 60 year old with high LDL and a calcium score of 500 not to bother with a Statin.

[@catcan221]

I wish I could hit the "thumbs up" button a million times. ❤

[@ArcoZakus]

You can. It just toggles rather than increments the counter. But it feels good. (I wonder whether that activity shows up in any statistics provided by yt to video owners, even if it does not increment the counter?) I do it occasionally on some of my favorite music videos, though I have never actually reached a million.