Dr. Stuart Hameroff on the Role of Microtubules in Brain Functions and Consciousness #15

Dr. Stuart Hameroff discusses the Penrose-Hameroff "Orch OR" theory about quantum mechanical / general relativity approaches to consciousness and the role of microtubules in brain functions such as consciousness. In this discussion, Dr. Hameroff also debunks a recent attack article, written to discredit the Orch OR theory.
Dr. Hameroff is an anesthesiologist and quantum consciousness theorist and researcher. He is the former professor in the Department of Anesthesiology and Psychology at Banner University Medical Center in Tucson, Arizona. He is currently the Director for the Center of Consciousness Studies and works closely with Sir Roger Penrose on their major theory about consciousness.
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#quantum #consciousness #stuarthameroff #quantumconsciousness #microtubules #brainfunctions #rogerpenrose #anesthesia #tedxtalks #synchronicity

[@RUOK2000]

This concept that our consciousness is; Reduction of the waveform at a microtubular level (particularly in the cerebrum), near the speed of light, which is then interpretted by our biological logical processing unit (cerebellum) which then deliveries hormones accordingly to readjust physical action in our perceived moment of now, is absolutely wonderful. To expand; Sensory receptors: In response to external stimuli, sensory receptors in various parts of the body (such as the eyes, ears, skin, etc.) detect the stimuli and convert them into electrical signals. Neural pathways: The electrical signals generated by the sensory receptors travel through neural pathways, which consist of interconnected neurons. These pathways carry the signals towards the brain for further processing. The cerebrum: The cerebrum is responsible for higher cognitive functions such as perception, thinking, and decision-making. When the electrical signals reach the cerebrum, they undergo complex processing at a microtubular level. This processing involves the interpretation and analysis of the waveform, which represents the sensory information. Interpretation: The cerebrum interprets the waveform and generates a symbolic representation of the perceived sensory information. This interpretation depends on previous knowledge, experiences, and the individual's cognitive processes. Cerebellum and hormonal response: The cerebellum, often referred to as the "biological logical processing unit," receives the symbolic representation generated by the cerebrum. It then integrates this information with other sensory inputs and previously learned motor patterns to facilitate coordinated physical actions. Simultaneously, the cerebellum can influence hormonal responses through its connections with other brain regions, including the hypothalamus. The release of hormones allows for adjustments in various physiological and behavioral aspects, helping to adapt to the perceived moment of "now." This combination of physics, biology and chemistry disciplines is truly, deeply fascinating to me.

[@Antidoton]

Still doesn't answer the hard question

[@eksffa]

Two good updates in this interview, first the paper Hameroff et al are writing about the new experiment results and second the very interesting news regarding anesthetics effects on plants. Hope to see a paper soon about it. About consciousness preceding life the discussion should be wether consciousness can be decoupled from matter as per the orch-or theory otherwise we need to address wether we are talking about consciousness or just meta-conscious moments, which are non steady, unorchestrated, lower frequency and memory detached.

[@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885]

the protoconsciousness is only "seemingly" or "apparently" random as per noncommutativity. Study Alain Connes whom Penrose cites. The inner cross products of the matrice math is based on the discrete numbers as spectral frequency - so there is a "Harmony of Phases" as de Broglie realized with a negative frequency and reverse time phase that is guiding matter from the future.

[@slomnim]

You can think of music, but it doesn't exist the same way as when you play it. I imagine that is similar to when the body is anesthesia-ized, the instrument is "offline" but can be "picked back up." Why do people have the same personality and memories when they come back from anesthesia?

[@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885]

@@slomnim "Near-death experience in a boy undergoing uneventful elective surgery under general anesthesia" Actually I was just watching this NDE documentary a couple days ago and someone else described having an NDE from anesthesia also.

[@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885]

@@slomnim The 1/2 spin is the inner cross products of the matrices and so the reverse time is the magnetic moment from the 1/2 spin of the virtual photons - as Feynman explained (the magnetic force originates from negative frequency as virtual photons). So our "soul" information that is "hard-wired" as our subconscious intention is from this reverse time magnetic moment storage - that is also a quantum beat undertone or subharmonic from the future as CIA MKULTRA military mind control scientist physiologist Dr. Andrija Puharich figured out (corroborated by Professor Michael Persinger with whom I corresponded). So Prof. Emeritus Stuart Hameroff explains that when a person dies their quantum protoconsciousness maintains quantum coherence as quantum nonlocality - that is due to the noncommutativity of the future and past overlapping as each zero point of spacetime. So there is a deeper "reverse time" that also enables people to have precognitive visions and see the future when they have NDE experiences or do deep meditation or deep psychedelic chemistry etc. A good book on precognitive visions is by Ph.D. psychologist Dr. Christina Donnell, "Transcendent Dreaming" - the precognitive dreams are more vivid and more lucid than being awake! All of our perceptions originate from this nonlocal noncommutative ether that Penrose calls protoconsciousness as fundamental time that is also highly asymmetric and yet coherent as negative entropy for the origin of the Universe. the music I'm referring to is the "transcendental music" as nonwestern music or vocal natural singing - like violins also without the logarithmic equal-tempered tuning. So D. Scott Rogo did a two part book series called NAD using the Indian term for sacred sound connected to Nada as similar to Prana. thanks

[@squamish4244]

@@slomnim The non-materialistic explanation is that the energy body detaches from the physical body under anesthesia, and returns when you wake up. The brain's wiring is still the same as it was. But I have an interesting story. I have recently been getting ketamine IV therapy for anxiety and PTSD and the mild anesthetic effect has allowed my body to release a huge amount of emotional garbage 'trapped' in it. The Buddhist perspective would be that the ketamine pushes the rational mind that resists conscious transformation aside and allows all this shit to rise to the surface. After all my experiences, and my work with energy healers who have save my life after a severe breakdown, addiction and brutal subtle energy problems, I cannot ever believe in the materialistic paradigm again - not that I was ever arrogant enough to do so in the first place. When I tell materialists this stuff, they lose their minds trying to explain to me how it is all psychosomatic and placebo and the brain can trick you and blah blah blah. The idea of nonlocal consciousness is just too scary to consider. It opens an immense door into another world. I think, get over it because I have had to face this reality under a great deal more anxiety than you, and loads of raw terror to boot, so if I can do it, you sure as shit can.

[@colindawson1530]

I admire Stuart's free thinking and no-nonsense approach.

[@0ptimal]

Very pleased that I found/was recommended this. Thank y'all for creating it.

[@rsc4peace971]

Very fascinating a big leap in our understanding of the full mechanisms and the processes involved in our consciousness by Penrose and Hameroff. This is the most effective collaboration between a very smart mathematician/physicist (theoretical) and a Neurologist(practicing physician) to unravel a rather elusive topic

[@Self-Duality]

This is a hidden gem 💎 thank you!!! 😌💭

[@sideoutside]

I've been looking for this information for awhile. Great job in explanation! This piece ties it all together..

[@dr.jenskuhnemann3411]

Very interesting, thanks a lot for uploading.

[@daisyplatforms3425]

Thank you for this delicious content on consciousness! I'm salivating for more.

[@picksalot1]

In an effort to remove confusion about the Nature of Consciousness, this Mandukya Upanishad verse states "7. Not internal consciousness, not external consciousness, not in between consciousness (i.e. the state between waking and dream), not a cloud of consciousness (i.e. thoughts, ideas, etc.), not consciousness (i.e. knowledge of everything simultaneously), nor unconsciousness, beyond perception, beyond transaction, beyond grasp (formless), beyond designation, beyond thinking (i.e. beyond objectification), beyond description, the one whose essence is proof of a single Self (Atma), the cessation of the world (of Samsara), tranquil, auspicious, non-dual, is considered the Fourth (Turiya). That (is) the Self (i.e. Atma). That (Self, Atma) is to be known." The point is that there is just one Consciousness, not many consciousnesses. It is the nature of the Subject/Self, and is never an object of measurement or perception. Everything is Consciousness, but not everything is conscious/i.e. sentient. Like in a dream, everything is the Consciousness of the Dreamer, but not everything in the Dream (ground, sky, mountains, etc.) is conscious. It is an important distinction.

[@david203]

Yes, there is only one Consciousness, and all of the universe is contained within it. Human bodies are manifested within Consciousness as explained by science, just like everything else, and you can't expect to find any evidence of Consciousness within human bodies or anything else simulated in Consciousness. Our potential for awareness of Consciousness is not based on any characteristic of the body, but simply the fact that the experiencer, the observer is already Consciousness. There is nowhere to go and no process to go through to "find" or Consciousness, as we are already It.

[@picksalot1]

@@david203 Nice to come across someone who understands this properly. The Scientists don't seem to have discerned the difference between Consciousness and Sentience. When they do, the science should be much improved. 👌

[@david203]

@@picksalot1 Agreed. AI is sentient, but can never be conscious, because being conscious is not a computation (and it's not some sort of weird quantum mechanical phenomenon, either--QM is not really weird).

[@jsnedd66]

sir Roger has show us the blueprints of the decoding machine, the particles that interact with the brain are the information .together, they are consciousness!

[@FigmentHF]

The full weight of reality as it is, hit me last night. It’s… destabilising but I’m starting to adapt already. I did get a bit of an existential crisis, reality became a little.. ill-defined. I managed to ground myself and all was well, and it turned into something that maps onto claims of enlightenment. It’s quite a lot to take in, nothing is like we thought it was, and it’s something that can only be discovered, not told. Our 3D space time intuitions are simply too strong.

[@American_Moon_at_Odysee_com]

I like Penrose's idea of a certain threshold number of fermions being affected by gravitation, this leading to a difference in being quantum real and classically experienced.

[@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885]

the threshold is based on mass of protons I think - not electrons. The Pi resonance as nonlocality is from the 1/2 spin of the electrons. The protons though are also delocalized. It's based on the Spin-Spin coupling of the protons like in an MRI or the Nuclear magnetic resonance of the protons. So that's what creates the quantum beat - the phase velocity difference between the electron and proton as a "reverse time" undertone or quantum beat. Dr. Andrija Puharich also figured this out in biology only his math was still more classical.

[@david203]

You may like it, but it has never been observed in any experiment.

[@david203]

@@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885 There may be a "quantum beat" between two nuclei, but there is no gravity other than that due to masses. No experiment has ever shown gravity to be generated in any way other than by mass, or its equivalent, acceleration.

[@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885]

@@david203 you haven't researched Yakir Aharonov's weak measurement research group experiments on "nega-particles" based on negative mass and quantum nonlocality.

[@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885]

@@david203 Life is an Engineering Marvel of Water: It's Water that Manages Noise to Synthesis Life P Singh, K Ray, A Bandyopadhyay - Biological Antenna to the Humanoid …, 2022 - Springer … Spin-lattice relaxation rates of water protons are observed by considering all possible … tubulin proteins that make the central hollow cylinder. Then we observe the dynamics of tubulin … How Schrödinger's mice weave consciousness M Myakishev-Rempel, IV Savelev - Rhythmic Advantages in Big Data and …, 2022 - Springer … of microtubules … protons delocalize when the basepairs are undisturbed; when basepairs are disturbed by the bumps of infrared photons and water, the protons localize; if the protons …t [PDF] Spatio-spectral eigenmodes of brain waves and neural networks described by an informational quantum code HJH Geesink - 2022 - … in microtubules inside brain neurons by the research group led by Bandyopadhyay … Most MRI brain imaging is based on observations of proton nuclear spins. To be useful for neural …

[@stephensmith6524]

What does the microtubule-impacting anesthesia have on one-cell ciliates that need cilia to swim around?

[@paultorbert6929]

Subbed, notifications on….💛

[@karinbergman1646]

So photo- consciousness may be infinite and is self-aware (33:45ish, Dr. Hameroff)? Excellent program. How might NDEs relate? I've had microtubules fever for years after coming up on some of Dr. Hameroff 's papers regarding effects of anesthesia as possibly related to what occurs during NDEs, or near death experiences.Thank you.

[@Xime_6888]

Podrían activar sub títulos en español, gracias.

[@sirbarringtonwomblembe4098]

Glad to see that, like me, he spells 'Stuart' properly!😁

[@bobhumid]

Around 50:40: Did I catch this right? Basically the process of realisation of "cosnsciousness" consumes no ATP in the OR-theory ?? :O

[@oscarluisvermat7935]

What about the subjective experience (qualia) of the hard problem proposed by Chalmers? Shouldn't that be resolved first, before going to the AGI stuff? Do Penrose and Hameroff touch that point with their microtubules & quantum idea? Any explanation how the brain activity produces subjective experience? How do the microtubules and all that stuff produce the qualia? Any suggestions? Thanks.

[@arandomguyontheinternet756]

Roger and Stuart themselves said that right now they are talking about only a small part of consciousness

[@david203]

Brain activity doesn't produce Consciousness. It doesn't have to. Consciousness is all that actually exists, and brains and universes are manifestations within Consciousness. There is only one Observer, and it is Consciousness. The brain is not an observer; it is a perceiver and calculator.

[@david203]

@@arandomguyontheinternet756 There is no small part of anything that is infinite like consciousness. Separable parts only exist in the simulation we call the universe, which has no reality other than what is lent to it by consciousness.

[@Alex-wg1mb]

It is a feedback loop. Different parts of the brain can evaluate each other building the image of self perception. It is my observation based on when antibiotic side effects messed with my brain. I lost the sense of this perception for some time or after deep sleep in a brief moment I don't experience myself. Just is.

[@spqri3]

​@@david203Does this consciousness compel people to commit atrocities?

[@danscieszinski4120]

Awesome. I’d offer one idea, proto-consciousness’s idea of pleasure would be much different than a complex agent. I’d offer that at the most simplest boot-up phase… the only operation that would be interesting or desired would be “more consciousness” and calling that pleasure seeking seems not quite on the mark. Meaning the drive to complexity is driven by the desire for more complex experiences, not just “pleasure”.

[@crocodilearms2093]

If we are talking Consciousness theories outside of the body, how can that be distinguished from consciousness reliant on or housed within the body? The problems I see are that all of the studies I am aware cannot rule out the dependence, even if it's effects are outside the body, and all evidence pointing to an outside consciousness not reliant on body in some way is suggestive yet not concrete. Is concrete evidence even possible? It's my personal leaning that this quantum consciousness does not operate independently from the body, though its reach is vast through means of entanglement and assisting in the Copenhagen collapse, which is impossible to compute. Other options are that 1) information is somehow either outside the universe undetected assisting in the state of collapse OR 2) that the information is within the universe but undetected presumably in vacuum energy form OR 3) that the information is within the universe outside the body but difficult / impossible to compute. Given those alternatives, I think it is more streamlined (in the Occam's razor approach) that the information is within the body but difficult / impossible to compute.

[@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885]

Hameroff is dropping the mind-bomb on the spirochetes as a symbiotic evolution of creating complex organisms. "she kind of got it beaten out of her." Yes it's difficult to get this point of Lynn Margulis explained clearly as Professor Emeritus Stuart Hameroff explains well.

[@jimmyjasi-anti-descartes7088]

Well. How to explain parasitism? Or is it precisely "form of cooperation"? Gaia hypothesis is certainly better than "Inteligent Design" which doesn't hold up any water. But still well is rather unorthodox by Dawkins standards.

[@jimmyjasi-anti-descartes7088]

And as to Lamarckian inheritance my honest view is that Evolution of Life would failed if that would be a mechanism. If brain could choose how to modify genes that would be disastrous given IQ of most species and even some people (and the fact that the brightest minds still can't crack the entire genome and its all functions. Arik Kirshenbaum also did Simulations that showed extinction of hypothetical species that pass to their offspring Lamarckian inheritance making them inflexible. I love Profesor Emeritus Stuart Hameroff for a following things 1He's progressing towards proving beyond doubt that Cousciousness vanishes under anesthesia and coma. That REM and Psychodelics are opposite of Anesthesia. 2 He proves with Anirban Bandyopadhay that memories are stored inside CAMK2 Proteins and are being stable contrary to what our Harry Potter inspired Boltzmann Brain mad culture proposes Against the empirical evidence provided by Anirban Bandyopadhay and superconductivity of Microtubule. 3 Orch Or if proven automatically falsyfies Simulation Hypothesis showing that consciousness and behavior of conscious animals can't be computed nor mimicked. 4 It's less anthropocentric. Summing above points up as far as I'm concerned it's the only theory that debunks Solipsism and Boltzmann Brain Paradox .

[@jimmyjasi-anti-descartes7088]

Orch Or is in fact more materialistic theory than what Dan Dennet considers "Materialistic" given that if consciousness could be computed and brain is simple computer it opens way for Bostroms Simulation Hypothesis (brand of Solipsism)

[@jimmyjasi-anti-descartes7088]

I was an Idealist at best couple of years ago only Sir Roger Penrose and Stuart Hameroff returned me faith in physicalism and no words can pronounce how greatfull I am to them. Although I think it's hurtful for Hameroffs image all that confronting Dawkins, walking hand by hand with Deepak Chopra, articles about After Life... Wouldn't it be better not to create to much enemies from mainstream science? Guerilla skeptics already demolished Profesors Hameroff Wikipedia page including nothing about experiments that indicate on validity of Quantum Biology and finding of Quantum Luminal Effects in Microtubules going away with Anesthesia! Nothing! Wikipedia only writes about that Diosis failed idea!

[@claudiourbano6779]

Che persona straordinaria il dr HAMEROFF !!

[@hypocritease]

Are black holes portals of scale that create consciousness which is synonymous with dark matter by compressing matter from our world to a quantum state using the reciprocation of Benford's law?

[@PeteOutdoors1]

I can answer that: microtubules having nothing to do with consciousness because consciousness is not a physical process, it exists outside of space, time and matter. Self awareness (consciousness) is externality. You can see yourself outside of yourself. This can not happen in a physical, mechanistic process.

[@andrewharvey4958]

I would like to know what is going on in TIME, that creates the experience of the "present moment". There is, I intuit, a rolling feedback in the process of being aware.

[@joukosalminen1549]

Present moment is the time how long Bose Einstein condensation is alive. Memory looks like this: Action potential (;) No action potential (,). ,,,;,,;;,,;;,;;,,;;;,,;,,,,,,;;;,! this was 0,3 sec. Many BE condensations happens in same time and all BE condensations together is the consciousness. If same action potential (spin wave)function meets memory; BE condensation occur. It not need to be exactly same time it is proportional. As like you recognize melody from different tone level.

[@sirbarringtonwomblembe4098]

You cannot experience 'time' - only the eternity of now. Check out Rupert Spira on consciousness.

[@david203]

Awareness is independent of time. We experience this ourselves in the experience of timelessness when we are absorbed in the Self. Awareness is also independent of space; it is not localized.

[@SooperToober]

Wow - brilliant minds. I’m dumbfounded.

[@ALtheDoctorWho]

It's interesting that platonic values has a spiritual effect in all of us. A sense of divine order. 🙏 c]8-)

[@aryangoswami7512]

Sir Hemroff and sir Roger Penrose absolutely right

[@david203]

How can you be absolutely right in making a baseless speculation? That isn't physics; it's mysticism.

[@aryangoswami7512]

@@david203 because maturalist don't like out of physical phenomena

[@mmedeuxchevaux]

Why do nearly all physicists disagree with Hameroff and Penrose's theory?

[@paulskillman7595]

The young lady has such bright eyes! Thanks.

[@stationary.universe.initiative]

Consciousness is Planck's frequency of superfluid timeless quantum space.

[@Dion_Mustard]

Not sure what consciousness is, but I've had Out of Body Experiences and it seemed to be the case that my consciousness separated from my body. I was able to perceive things whilst seemingly unconscious. In fact, my Out of Body states, and my lucid dream states, were considerably more real than my current waking reality. I never thought such phenomena was real until it happened to me. I am pretty confident consciousness is MORE than brain, so to speak.

[@Anna-mv9ew]

The quantum state of your brain might have collapsed beyond your brain, but your microtubules were able to catch it and write it down the same they do with any other conscious experience (memory). That's why you were able remember this conscious experience and can replay it in your mind... This is beautiful, this theory finally gives a language to understand how these things might work

[@Dion_Mustard]

@@Anna-mv9ew yes I agree. Most fascinating !

[@markphc99]

I remember reading Penrose’s ENM from 30 years ago at university -a great exposition of physics , with a speculative idea that microtubules in the brain were responsible for consciousness, which were largely dismissed by all the critics I read - ingenious but lacking not just proof , but falsifiability.I’m interested if you can resuscitate it convincingly.

[@arandomguyontheinternet756]

The theory is quite falsifiable, and they allready done some experiments with positive results

[@joukosalminen1549]

About same time it has proposed that spin wave happens along MT. 2018 magic angle of graphene was found. Unbound singlet has predicted long ago. Between two MT dimers, when bended, and with spin wave can born singlet.

[@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885]

You just need to stop the topic more - Anirban Bandyopadhyay already corroborated the microtubule claim of Penrose and Hameroff. It's just that the "internet algorithm spin" promoted a debunking soundbyte to that people can easily dismiss it as an assumption.

[@david203]

Microtubules can't have any connection to consciousness; I've explained this in a nearby comment.

[@david203]

@@joukosalminen1549 Spin waves are also not consciousness.

[@dazlolkaitis4978]

I believe microtubules are involved because my brains ability to repeat old imagination I didnt realize I was creating at the time but generated when I was young. I recall the imagination almost perfectly, my theory its arrangement of microtubules thats responsible for visual imagination and memory.

[@markstipulkoski1389]

At about 27:20 in the video, Hameroff finally leaves all the mysticism and handwaving behind and starts talking like a scientist. Here are some facts that are relevent: 1. Microtubules evolved to give mechanical support to cells. 2. The structure of the microtubules coincidentally produced a quiet environment where quantum effects could persist long enough to affect voltage thresholds within neurons. This influence is small, but not zero. So, IMHO, consciousness still emerges from the system of neural networks, but these networks can be slightly influenced by quatum effects like virtual particles, superposition, and entanglement. But these effects are not fundamental to consciousness. Speculation based on experimental evidence: Quantum entanglement is across time, as well as space. This is an explanation of the Delayed Choice Quantum Eraser experiment. At the quantum level, events from the future can affect events in the past/present (aka retrocausality). Apply retrocausality to the weak influence of microtubules on neuron thresholds and you might have a plausible explanation for precognition/hunches. No spirutual plane/panpsychiism needed.

[@joukosalminen1549]

I give To you better theory: Memory is written at MT by dynein walking. They bend hinges of dimer. When spin wave turns spin different at dimer A tryptophane; the opposite spin of Dimer B makes singlet with it. this happens only if bendin and spin wave happens same time. Memory looks this: no singlet (,) singlet ; ,,,;,,,,;,,,,,;,,,,,,;,,,;

[@markstipulkoski1389]

@@joukosalminen1549 By George, I think you've got it!

[@joukosalminen1549]

@@markstipulkoski1389 thanks! When same spin wave equation comes again born (Frölich) Bose Einstein condensation which is consiscousness

[@david203]

@@joukosalminen1549 But memory is not consciousness!

[@astolfosobrelaluna.3099]

🙂

[@frankp.3197]

I like the theory, but I see one issue with it though. Almost all cells have Microtubules and there is very little difference from a neuron to any other cell. If Microtubules were the source of consciousness then there should be a change in consciousness for an amputee. You would think if Microtubules were the process in which consciousness is formed, any loss or disruption to the network, not just the brain. I think it's valid the observations of computation through Microtubules, I just don't see how the leap to consciousness from this is valid. Also, what is the benefit of consciousness to survival? That kind of goes against the parsimony rules of nature, if we removed the experience aspect of our existence, we would function the same, maybe even better which is argued by some. Also as a engineer for over 25 years, there is no such thing as Random, not only have I never found anything random, if you ever tried to create a random number generator by either software or hardware, it is impossible to create one, it might look random, but at some point it has to be seeded on something non random, even in the case of a quantum number generator. Fact is our math is pretty poor, when you get to quantum physics, it's all based on probability fields, they look like random fields of probability but that's just because our math doesn't work. Classical physics can't be used past ten to the negative 33 seconds, but there is clearly something beyond though, quantum physics looks at probabilities, neither actually describe anything real, all just concepts that I can take us pretty far but then ceases to work. I think quantum physics is a field these days that is saturated with egos, if your whole field is based solely on probabilities, all you did was create a net to catch some of the properties flowing out of it. Kinda of crazy to cement a discipline in which only describes possibilities and to explain the missing parts, they came up with an even worse theory of the Multiverse to fill in the blanks. If you say everything that you can't find in quantum physics is because every infinitesimal second, an infinite number of universes spawn into existence for all possibilities and those are where the hidden variables are, to me is not only lazy, coherently makes no sense since there is zero empirical evidence to a hint that a multiverse is even a thing. We need new blood, the old guards have stagnated with theories that explain nothing, but if your able to describe one single aspect of reality with a theory, they fill in the blanks with more of the same nonsense from colleagues.

[@richardhunt809]

Fascinating stuff about microtubules and their role in consciousness. But for me the Chopra style pseudo religious stuff is for the birds.

[@Mark-no2du]

How about this: God is Love However, there is no Love without freedom Thus, the materiality and proto-consciousness of the universe(s) is eternal and co-existent with Love, inasmuch as these conditions create the necessary constituents of Negation (i.e., not-love), without which there can be no freedom for Love to exist. OrchOR is so exciting to me because it breaks apart the determinism of computational neruo-science, and re-establishes freedom on the structure of consciousness. Incidentally, where Hameroff suggests pleasure as the engine of evolution, I would say that pleasure is proto-Love, in much the same way as he compares the orchestra tuning up cacaphonously to the performance of a symphony. Love is the symphony of the universe...we are here to use our freedom to participate in the cosmic realization of God's nature as Love...

[@paulskillman7595]

Hey man! Be careful! We do not get many second chances. I am 82 yrs old. I put it down to using my computer all the time. Somehow it keeps my brain alive and alert.

[@hollies4806]

👍👍

[@petermiesler9452]

32:00 "Consciousness precedes life." This is narrative, this is philosophy lost within our own, self-absorbed and self-certain minds. The stuff of narrative tactics, not the exposition of constructive step by step facts that lead to better understanding. Consciousness is an interaction between creatures & environments & each other. Consciousness is about awareness and it's on a spectrum - but, I never hear Hameroff really acknowledge that side of it, or evolution's role in creating creature consciousness. Ignoring that cripples this entire enterprise. These lines of argument are more appropriate for the Descartes school of thought - than post Evolution evidence based scientific understanding.

[@Antidoton]

Do you not think it the opposite where one is so trapped in the psyche that he cannot see beyond it?

[@petermiesler9452]

@@Antidoton Nah, it's the Ego that leads us astray.

[@davidwilkie9551]

A particular quantization cause-effect +/- Fractal Reciproction-recirculation, (= "all is vibration"), inherent to this Universe of Logarithmic Time, and Feynman type guessing thought experiment is the "vortex-vertex" type Circuitry of a Feynman Diagram Correspondence, of Function e-Pi-i logarithmic resonance to Form embedding, ..pure-math relative-timing ratio-rates that observes=resonates in the observed Chirality, ie Right-handedness of the logarithmic condensation Perspective of 0-1-2-ness GD&P Quantum-fields Actuality, which means the embedded spin-spiral Form of DNA Right-hand assembly in microstructures such those studied here, fits the pulse-evolution Timey-Wimey scenario of embedded Quantum Operator Logic Fields Modulation Mechanism.., of Consciousness Singularity, here-now-forever. Euler's pure-math function e-Pi-i Superposition-point sync-duration is synonymous with embedded Superposition-point Singularity Positioning, in universal quantization resonance bonding proportioning, probabilities Chemistry of phase-locked coherence-cohesion objective-aspects. WYSIWYG, Actual Intelligence is the Observable real-time Actuality experience, in e-Pi-i resonance bonding, and/or orthogonal-normal temporal duality in/of superposition spin-spiral probability, temporal Calculus etc. The superficial acceptance of transverse trancendental Perspective Principle is close enough to qualify, to be re-cognition of an all encompassing super-Self bio-logical re-evolution life is fitted with. It is my considered opinion that that "gravitation" is interchangeable with Quantum-field(s), because e-Pi-i forms In-form-ation substantiation of continuous cause-effect vibration-creation Intelligence-consciousness by self-defining what, how and why things are this real-time Actuality. Dog sheet theories-> horse sheet experiments no matter how deep underground they are placed. If BBT pundits can ignore observable QM facts that need no explanation in order to preserve creation myths displaced to long ago and far away that cannot exist according to the Holographic Principle.., what can we say without expletives. Excellent Teaching talk thanks.

[@astralmaster1692]

Technical Jargon overload

[@david203]

Long comment that sounds like gibberish: lots of science buzzwords strung together. This is typical of the kind of pseudoscience that people will respect enough to send in their money. A scientifically ignorant person and their money are soon parted.

[@astralmaster1692]

@@david203 Anyone who has to make their point that complicated is insecure about their intelligence

[@david203]

@@astralmaster1692 I feel very secure about my intelligence, and even more so about my education in science. I am a physics graduate and also a student of Advaita Vedanta. I try to understand both worlds: objective and subjective knowledge.

[@astralmaster1692]

@@david203 Not you, the original commenter

[@jessewallace12able]

Lost in the illusion that spacetime is fundamental.

[@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885]

protoconsciousness is nonlocal. If you study Penrose you'll note he emphasizes nonlocality from noncommutativity. Penrose calls this "Fundamental Time." He cites Connes who calls it "primitive time." And math professor Louis Kauffman emphasizing noncommutativity calls this nonlocality "primordial time." It's before linear causality of spacetime. You can also study the colleague of Penrose - Professor Basil J. Hiley for details.

[@david203]

Consciousness is fundamental. Spacetime is an illusion generated in Consciousness to support gravity and all the other science of mass, energy, space, time, and causality. Our consciousness is Consciousness as viewed by a human being, which essentially is nothing other than Consciousness.

[@SV-je2rf]

​@@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885It turns out that after the death of the body, all people become united? does individuality disappear?

[@ianclarke3627]

All is gravity ,that's all I can fathom.

[@commiekillahjay2525]

Phencyclidine has the Craziest Aromatic Ring in its molecular structure. I have had the most spiritual experiences on this anesthetic and it has convinced me that there is indeed a God watching over us and that's we live in a quantum world.

[@david203]

There is no direct connection between any carbon ring and a human experience. Psychedelics are not physics.

[@commiekillahjay2525]

@@david203 I always thought there was a connection between the quantum world and psychedelic experience..or at least it feels very much like there is.

[@david203]

@@commiekillahjay2525 But how can you have a feeling for something that doesn't really exist? The world is already a "quantum world", so there is no special place separate from the world we know called a "quantum wolrd"! So what are you talking about?

[@houmanrm]

What would have programmed those microtubules to create consciousness ? ... DNA ... but DNA only serves to create sequences of proteins. It does not program microtubules. Unless you believe that these self-programm...This doesn't add up either. If you are really curious about the origin of consciousness, watch hundreds of interview on NDEs as I did. You will have your answer once and for all. Take care.

[@Dmvslim74]

Which also asks, are the #kinetochrones the chief architects of protein consciousness 🤓

[@randymorales1127]

the symphony should be the subconscious..

[@boldandthebeautifulgimbal2881]

Is anyone else thinking that neurons are quantum logic gates?

[@parker9163]

In my opinion, a theory of observers is our KEY to determining the connection between quantum mechanics and gravity -- the problem is we observe everything the same way, imagine a different type of observer that can observe quantum interactions from a different perspective where there is less lossy information compression. I bet $1000 on this.

[@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885]

the key word here is "observer" - Penrose is talking about time-frequency energy that does not need to be observed. Penrose emphasizes that quantum biology has to be studied more. It's proven that people can hear up to ten times faster than time-frequency uncertainty or Fourier Uncertainty - especially musicians. The key is the ultrasound interface as both mechanical and piezoelectric quantum coherence of the microtubules. The highest pitch we hear externally resonates the brain internally as ultrasound. Try not to get hung up on the word "observe" since science wrongly assumes time to be an external linear operator measurement. NOncommutativity has disproven this and Penrose relies on noncommutativity.

[@parker9163]

@@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885 Conception of time is dependent on the observer

[@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885]

@@parker9163 Roger Penrose refers to "fundamental time" which is before spacetime. It has to do with time defined by the imaginary number or square root of negative one via the inner cross products of the matrices math. This is before any "collapse" of the wavefunction. So it's a frequency-time phase that is noncommutative. Math Professor Louis Kauffman calls this "primordial time" and Fields Medal math professor Alain Connes call this "primitive time" - as Penrose cites Connes. So the collaborator of Penrose, Professor Basil J. Hiley calls this "prespace" as from the quantum algebra that takes place via the discrete numbers of time/frequency. So at each zero point of time there already is the future and past overlapping due to the negative frequency and reverse time co-existing with positive frequency and past time. The time of the observer is actually past time based on a linear causality of spacetime. As Basil J. Hiley points out the symmetric restframe of relativity does not exist due to noncommutativity and Louis de Broglie first discovered this with his Law of Phase Harmony. You can refer to Martin van der Mark's recent talks on youtube about the Light as a Heavy analysis from de Broglie for more details. QC0084: Dr. Martin van der Mark: Quantum Particle, Light Clock, Or Heavy Beat Box? and QC0084a: Dr. Martin van der Mark: Quantum Particle, Light Clock, Or Heavy Beat Box, QA&D

[@david203]

You can bet any amount of money on a vague, poorly-described conjecture without fear of loss of your bet. This isn't science.

[@parker9163]

@@david203 ok

[@anyariv]

I had that realization myself that the Big Bang could have been like a giant orgasm giving way to this universal desire to reach climactic pleasurable states, self organizing systems, molecules, atoms, with this intent of pleasure. Now all living things have this need to make copies of themselves, to give birth, and this experience is pleasurable because it’s born into our universe.

[@obsoleteoptics]

LOL we are God's ejaculation

[@Self-Duality]

Beautiful thought!🎄💖😌💭 I completely agree and applaud you for sharing this! Bless you!

[@sirbarringtonwomblembe4098]

Come again?

[@anyariv]

@@sirbarringtonwomblembe4098 I see what you did there

[@BalthazorsStrategicArcana]

@@sirbarringtonwomblembe4098 🤣

[@squamish4244]

How interesting that this effect seems to affect PLANTS as well. Now it's getting really hard to say this is all b.s., Max Tegmark be damned. (God he did a lot of damage to this theory, and he has never apologized for his miscalculation - which was 20 years ago.)

[@david203]

If it affects plants, then show me the quantum behavior of a plant. There is none. Yes, there is quantum behavior in photosynthesis, but those molecules are very tiny as compared to microtubules. Tiny (or good refrigeration) is a requirement for quantum behavior, since QM is so easily disrupted by our hot, noisy environment. That is one reason why its discovery was so late in the history of physics.

[@squamish4244]

@@david203 You just admitted that there is quantum behaviour in plants. So what if it is at a very tiny scale. You know very well that Orch-OR has proposed a mechanism as to how quantum behaviour can function in the warm and wet environment of the brain. Did you think I didn't? You don't win arguments because someone else doesn't know something you do :P Orch-OR is in fact the theory of consciousness with the most evidence for it and has testable predictions, therefore making it scientific. Integrated Information Theory, the most popular - because it does not leave the door open for potential nonlocal consciousness speculation - does not match up in either case.

[@squamish4244]

@@david203 Let's cut to the chase. Explain to me why this is the _only_ theory of consciousness that has made any testable predictions - and is therefore the only one that is scientific. And it has made 14 predictions, and verified six. Fourteen more predictions and six more verifications than IIT or any other theory. So what if the molecules involved in photosynthesis are very tiny. The prior assumption was that plants _could not_ support quantum activity, full stop. That assumption turned out to be wrong. And it furthermore does not mean that microtubules cannot support quantum effects.

[@david203]

@@squamish4244 Just so I can use my time efficiently, give me specific references for the 14 predictions and the six verifications. I don't believe it. There is a good reason this pseudoscience is related to "the hard problem of consciousness": there is no objective relationship between the feeling of being conscious and the functioning of the brain. Microtubules exist and serve a structural purpose in cells, but there is no reliable evidence that any quantum mechanical process or any consciousness is related to them. Hoffman is not a trained physicist or other scientist, and his conjectures are all simply ideas and beliefs. He is entitled to them by basic freedom of speech, but they are nonsense scientifically.

[@philosophyforum4668]

So basically, if you can find a scientific basis for consciousness, you don't need to owe your existence to a Creator, and that seems to be the whole motivation.

[@causalityismygod2983]

There is another theory. "we 'think' therfore we are ". Thats the only truth we can definitely say applying all our knowledge,logic,imagination. "Think" a verb. "Thought" a noun Thought is consciousness thats the only thing thats we are certain about. What if....consciousness gives rise to matter? What if what we call space time is just a interface consciousness created to explore itself.

[@philosophyforum4668]

@@causalityismygod2983 In the Creator paradigm, Consciousness did give rise to matter - but it was God's consciousness and it was deliberate.

[@causalityismygod2983]

@@philosophyforum4668 yes....

[@paultorbert6929]

If you listen, Dr Hameroff said that consciousness exists before the universe….. Even if he gives that some other description, it implies GOD. And how would a scientific explanation negate GOD ???????

[@philosophyforum4668]

​@@paultorbert6929 If that's what he said, I must have missed it. Do you remember the timing? Most of what I heard had to do with the brain. One of the unspoken projects of science is to close the gaps of what we don't understand, because some of them give rise to the idea of miracles or the supernatural, which gives rise to the idea of God. The existence of human consciousness is such an example. In my point of view, consciousness seems like it would be derived from the soul, another supernatural entity, but in their explanation, they want to derive it from the brain just like a good materialist would - because they don't believe in the supernatural or God.

[@ilKhan-Ghost-of-Clan-Mongoose]

Great Stuff. ask NDEers what they think and feel about all of this lol.

[@salsperspective9745]

Consciousness is just 'IS' It (was or is) Time began and so life Everything is conscious Humans are self aware because we have (the biggest brain) we can reflect on us but it binds us in a loop of thought (which is Time )(time= is how we measure change) And consciousness is beyond time And unchanging So comprehension of consciousness is impossible because its spontaneous and unchanging hard to put it into words because our language is not enough

[@causalityismygod2983]

Consciousness created the mind

[@paultorbert6929]

There are a number of animals with larger brains than humans….

[@salsperspective9745]

@@paultorbert6929 not the physical brain the intellect part is what is refered here don't het lost in words.

[@v2ike6udik]

Pyramids, microtubules, 65000, universal consciousness. Last 5 min Tony Smith - E8 Physics from the Pyramids to the Present (Part 2 of 2) Send to hameroff. :)

[@david203]

Note that Wikipedia says, "Orchestrated objective reduction has been criticized from its inception by mathematicians, philosophers, and scientists...the philosopher Patricia Churchland wrote, 'Pixie dust in the synapses is about as explanatorily powerful as quantum coherence in the microtubules.' In one of my comments below, I provide an overview of my own criticisms of Orch OR, showing how speculative this theory is. It cannot as yet be considered scientific.

[@Gonegonegone977]

Snake oil

[@luisjacobson4375]

🙈 𝕡𝕣𝕠𝕞𝕠𝕤𝕞

[@david203]

Stable quantum states require isolation from our noisy and hot environment, and a size on the order of an atom. The microtubules in the nervous system are not a suitable environment to sustain even transient pure quantum states, and they are composed of a great many molecules. This just sounds like another instance of bad science.

[@arandomguyontheinternet756]

That was the argument, "the brain is too warm, wet and noisy" but we have good evidence to suggest that anesthesia works on microtubules like the one from the newest experiment on optics where they showed that tryptophan excitations in the microtubule were dampened by anesthesia, you might be refering to the older version of the model which had that problem, the enviromental shielding has more things involved in it like non polar pockets and actin jell

[@david203]

@@arandomguyontheinternet756 Remember, the claim is that QM has something to do with microtubules. I say, nonsense. The mechanism of anesthesia has never, AFAIK, been claimed to relate in any way to QM.

[@parker9163]

@@david203 Quantum effects don't spontaneously disappear at higher temperatures buddy.

[@david203]

@@parker9163 Buddy, they do. Superconductivity, superfluidity, and pure quantum states all disappear when heat is absorbed from the environment. "Decoherence can be viewed as the loss of information from a system into the environment (often modeled as a heat bath),"--en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_decoherence, buddy, buddy.

[@parker9163]

@@david203 No, quantum mechanics doesn't magically disappear at high temperatures. To get *our* quantum computers to work we do need a low temp environment. Bud

[@CosmicData369]

With all due respect, much objectively, that woman is interrupting a very interesting talk because she has “NO understanding of quantum physics AT ALL’, she says…What is justifying her presence then? It only slows the pace. The whole point of this video is about the quantum nature of consciousness so do you part girl and read about S.Hameroff studies PRIOR to making a video. Some people are too lazy to do the work at home to then bother experts with elementary questions. One has to be prepared for a ITW. That is disrespectful. Study your topic before engaging otherwise stay offline, at least for this one.

[@gregmonks]

This is bollocks. Doesn't nothing to inform or enlighten. Just wheel-spinning and word salad.