The Drydock - Episode 221

[@Drachinifel]

Pinned post for Q&A :)

[@jeffbybee5207]

How would you win the Civil War if you were made secretary of the Confederate navy in spring 1861 instead of mallory?

[@18robsmith]

When talking about the guns employed by Germany, Italy, Japan et-al there appears to be a good knowledge of the size and type of munitions deployed. How was this obtained?

[@mikemcghin5394]

If the USN rifle they're smoothborg cannons like the US army did with their cannons like the 14-pounder james rifle what will they be in the pounder system

[@hughgordon6435]

Sympathetic detonation? A thing? Or well understood and planned against?

[@AdmiralWillisLee1942]

Hey drach, I'm curious if there's any actual schematics/blueprints of the japanese heavy cruiser called "Zao" in world of warships, because i can't seem to find any original documentation anywhere. Is this another case of wargaming making up bullshit or are the documents lost to time?

[@Jacob-W-5570]

51:00 I was expecting a honourable mention of HMAS Supply !

[@billbrockman779]

I like having multiple pictures in an answer, as appropriate.

[@davidvik1451]

The sloping cutouts at the edge of the deck, called billboards in the USN maybe others, were for housing the stock anchors that could not be hauled up through the hawse pipe. With the advent of the stockless anchor that can be hauled up tight against the hull in the hawse pipe, the billboards made good platforms for paravane storage, launching, and recovery.

[@KlausECD]

The intro music always makes me happy

[@barelyasurvivor1257]

Me too!

[@agesflow6815]

Thank you, Drachinifel.

[@RedHellFire55]

Can't have a good Saturday without a drydock, it's a good Saturday

[@philvanderlaan5942]

If you were in the Denver Colorado area ( I don’t know exact distribution radius) you could watch Drydock while drinking a Drydock.

[@RedHellFire55]

@@philvanderlaan5942 I'm actually from Colorado, serving in japan rn tho

[@williampotts4404]

@@philvanderlaan5942 lmao might have to do that

[@tonyvancampen-noaafederal2640]

WRT Range checks - one check that was very useful on Radar range finders is called a double echo check and basically involved targets close enough that a second reflection off of the ship with the radar could be observed on return. By doubling the distance between the ship and the target it allowed a more accurate estimate of the error. The timing circuit could then be adjusted to remove the error. I believe that for the optical range finders that there were tram bars and blocks that were calibrated for different ranges. The rangefinder would be set for a particular range, and the tram bar or block would be inserted to measure the angle. If there was an error, the optics would be adjusted and the process repeated at a different distance settings. Also to perform a 'sanity' check on an optical range finder - you could pick a convenient 'target' and measure the range with either a stadimeter or sextant and compare the range finder value against them.

[@audiosurfarchive]

Yaaaaaay: more shipgir--I mean, educational content! I can't wait to fall asleep several times over to this episode and rewatch it from where I remember last.

[@benewagner9212]

Really glad I'm not the only one who does this all the time ! The Patreon Drydocks are perfect for weeks at a time ! xD

[@stevevalley7835]

wrt Brenden's question about armored cruisers, I was reading about British capital ships a couple weeks ago, and one piece talked about the armored cruiser/battlecruiser decision. An armored cruiser would cost a few hundred thousand Pounds less than a battlecruiser, but not enough less to enable more of the ships to be built for the same amount of money in the annual budget. The Admiralty was considering building another generation of armored cruisers, after building the Invincibles, as a budget cutting option, but then got wind of Von der Tann being built with battleship grade guns, so the Admiralty dropped the armored cruiser idea and proceeded with the Indefatigable class. Bottom line: 9.2" armored cruiser would cost almost as much as a battlecruiser, but could not stand up against a battlecruiser, nor could serve as an adjunct to the battleline. I was reading about the Courageouses in particular, and read that Fisher was specifying a maximum draft of 22.5 feet. The Courageouses failed that parameter spectacularly, drawing nearly as much as a Renown. I used SpringSharp to try to redesign Courageous to meet the 22.5 foot spec. By going to three twin 9.2" turrets taken from Lord Nelson class pre-dreadnoughts, to meet the cost and availability parameters of the Courageous, I could reduce the draft to 24.5 feet, which still missed Fisher's requirement.

[@codyzabriskie7611]

Gotta say, I LOVE history and I've loved ships ever since I learned what they are (USS Hornet, CV-12 is my favorite) and I really enjoy both watching and falling asleep to your long videos. Keep up the FANTASTIC work!

[@mpersad]

Very pleased that you'll get the chance to go back to the US so soon! They have such a huge range of historic naval vessels, and the videos you've shared to date from the last trip were superb. Can't wait!

[@johnserrano9689]

He had an orgy aboard USS constitution the day his wife stayed at the hotel. Those two ladies were obviously very big fans of his channel. As large as the constitution is, onlookers state you could visibly watch her rocking, bobbin, and ah shakin..... Believe me when I say Drachs more excited than anyone to come back to the Land of the worlds only SUPERPOWER

[@rogersmith7396]

There is a fairly large museum for USS Monitor. They have recovered the turret and guns. The guns look like new.

[@mikearuba726]

Drach is it weird that I mostly listen to you to fall asleep? Something about the black and white photos and your voice just knocks me out. I love the 45ish minute videos for in depth info but The Drydock is my lullabye haha. Cheers mate, Years ago I took off Ad-Block so you'd get that sweet sweet ad revenue while I caught some Zs. Much love from an insomniac across the pond 🏴‍☠💪

[@JimmyCricket93]

Me too man, then I go back and listen to it at work the next day

[@TerryDowne]

Overlooked admirals? Don't forget Sir Cloudesley Shovell, who deserves to be remembered for his wonderful name alone.

[@greenseaships]

He was overshadowed by Admiral Manley Power.

[@MrTapierwithmustache]

Actually Drach I want to congratulate you on your pronounciation of the Dante Alighieri, no pandering italian accent but just properly pronounced!

[@AtomicBabel]

We'll be there to welcome you again!

[@Joshua-fi4ji]

With regards to budget/2nd line battleships, the Españas have got to be the best example, along with various coastal defense ships.

[@SPR-Ninja]

Thanks as always mate!

[@katana1430]

Thank you for answering my question.

[@Aelvir114]

58:46 Not to mention there was also the 1945 designs that got gradually smaller and the 1945 Battleship X designs had several rather small variants of a 36,800 ton ship that is 730 ft long (waterline) and armed with (except for X3a which was 2 quadruple 15-inch/45s of a new design in an all-forward layout, proposed by Admiral Servaes) 6 16-inch Mark IV guns in a variety of layouts from 2 triple in a 1 fore and aft layout, 2 triple in an all-forward layout, to 3 twin with a superfiring pair forward and 1 aft.

[@lunatickoala]

I suspect that dreadnoughts and monitors were the only ship types named after a specific ship because they're the only cases where the name of the ship was sufficiently descriptive of the ship type to remain in use. If HMS Dreadnought had instead been called HMS Prince of Wales, dreadnoughts wouldn't have been called princes of wales but "2nd generation battleships" or "big gun battleships" or maybe even just "battleships". If HMS Invincible was conceived as a "dreadnought armored cruiser", the Fubuki class was akin to a "dreadnought destroyer" relative to its contemporaries. The IJN did call it a "Special Type Destroyer" but there wasn't really a change in terminology from simply "destroyer".

[@gokbay3057]

50:12 Well, there was the Spanish Destructor, which is considered the first Destroyer. Also, pretty sure "Cruiser" (or well, something along the lines of "Kreyser") was a name that was used for some age of sail ships. Otherwise Dreadnought and Monitor, yeah.

[@vespelian]

I remember reading about E 11 in the Marmara hitting a desalinated layer which it could not dive bellow in 1915.

[@davidharner5865]

Thank you so muck for the content! There is a schematic of BB38 Pennsylvania showing secondaries in turrets, no mention of suck an upgrade ! Am able to find. Also, ALL USN Standards were budget BBs: armoured, armed, but 0.5 of the machinery was omitted. Edit: damn Joseph's Daniels!

[@richardcutts196]

After Pearl Harbor Pennsylvania returned to the US for repairs and upgrades. During this refit her 5" guns were replaced with eight 5"/38 dp twin gun turrets.

[@davidharner5865]

@@richardcutts196 thank you.

[@tomhalla426]

Josephus Daniels

[@billmason2785]

Like the opening beat

[@arb732]

If you are going to visit more ships in the US in February, I hope they are in the South or West Coast. February is basically the coldest moth in the US during winter. So please pack for warmth. And by that I mean that if you think that what you have packed is warm enough, pack WARMER stuff. I live in NE Indiana, not the coldest state but we have hit -40 degrees with wind chill in February before. So please pack warmly. Keep up the good work and safe travels.

[@jamesharding3459]

February in the Oregon cascades isn't quite that bad, but only because we have a giant ocean less than 100 miles away and the trees keep the windchill reasonable.

[@davidkaminski615]

RE: Why casemate secondaries...Also before the widespread implementation of super firing guns, a lot of the deck space of ships were taken up by deck level turrets and a clear field of fire for them. This limited room on the exposed deck for turrets and superstructure. This forced the secondary battery to be either within the superstructure or within the hull.

[@Thirdbase9]

If you are visiting in February, I highly suggest southern ships. It gets mighty cold in the northern parts of the US that time of the year.

[@stevevalley7835]

Amen to that. Muskegon, MI is a good destination: an LST, Gato class sub, and a civilian Great Lakes passenger steamer all on display. But they are only open during the summer. Muskegon is on the Lake Michigan shore and, in February, an Alberta Clipper comes off that lake that will freeze your nuggies off.

[@jamesharding3459]

Midwest, sure, but the coastal areas are relatively mild in comparison. Merely cold instead of lethal within minutes.

[@calvingreene90]

I saw an article about a RAF squadron that flew gyrocopters in WWII using their extreme low speed to stay close enough to stationary for calibrating the range of radar stations. The gyrocopters were replaced with helicopters as soon as they became available.

[@richmcgee434]

17:40 That's a funny-looking U-boat design. :)

[@graveyard1979]

Problem with updating armored cruisers format to get on with the times, it always results in an interwar era heavy cruiser except with slightly bigger main guns. I had exactly same outcome in UAD trying to come with useful next generation armored cruisers and it always ended in this kind of micronaught cruisers with uniform 9-inch main batteries. This is building interwar heavy cruisers, but a decade earlier and not having to worry about any treaty limitations.

[@calvingreene90]

The 5-in guns that were being put on Wake Island were 5inch51 removed from USS Texas when her anti-aircraft defenses were being upgraded; presumably with 5inch38 Dual Purpose guns.

[@glocke380]

In Kuehn's book, "Agents of Innovation" he argues that the Washington treaty made the US Navy to plan for mobile bases instead of building small inadequate installations which really enabled the US to carry out the island hopping, "Hit them where they ain't," plan.

[@markjohnson4170]

I have always felt that the genius of the USS Constitution and the other 5 frigates was that they allowed the much inferior US Navy to practice asymmetrical warfare, and this was the only way that they could have any impact against the much superior Royal Navy... the Kaiser never learned this lesson and the Kriegsmarine didn't seem to figure it out until it was much too late!

[@hughgordon6435]

Ferrets running about, mega pint of coffee, and Drach? What a wonderful world!😎😎😎😎

[@jimihendrix991]

''Ferrets running about...'' are you related to Compo? 🙂

[@hughgordon6435]

@@jimihendrix991 nope, just a dude who knows / realises ferrets are fantastic companions

[@toddwebb7521]

If the treaties hadn't prevented the building of fortifications the US had quite a few 12" gun ships both early dreadnoughts and predreads that could have been a source of 12" guns for essentially their value in scrap iron and the Brits also had a bunch of the same plus some 13.5" ships being taken to the breakers. And that's not even getting into smaller stuff like secondary batteries and pre WWI armoured and protected cruisers and the like. A 12" gun may not have really been a threat to most WWII capital ships but it would have been a threat to a Kongo

[@inlandwhaler13]

Sir, will you please showcase the original USCG cutters and how they were different from Naval ships

[@richardcutts196]

00:07:30 I believe you mean Hindenburg, not Derfflinger. Derfflinger rolled over and sank in 45 meters of water.

[@stevevalley7835]

wrt to the question about the Washington treaty prohibiting fortification of Pacific islands, The UK had already had decades to fortify Singapore. The US had already had decades to fortify the Philippines, particularly Manila Bay. The Japanese were awarded the former German colonies, the Marianas, Carolines, and Marshals, which sit astride the US communication lines between Hawaii and the Philippines, after WWI. Japan had not had time to fortify these new possessions, various points of interest like Truk. I'm thinking the ban on fortifications was aimed at Japan.

[@TheFreaker86]

Click Thumbs up and watch later, as always 😊👍🏻

[@terranceroff1707]

we world of warships players driving the HSF ep 4-10 100mm version along with the rest of the IJN gunboat DD's want to note that the ROF of the 100mm in WOWS are very glad that WOWS has very little reality in the game any more. I can't begin to tell you how often I have exceeded the typical magazine capacity of the IJN DD's. Historically I can't begin to tell you how many times I'd have shot myself dry!

[@timengineman2nd714]

Another question would be if the IJN's type 89 (5"/40) would compare if it had been updated in feed, etc. as the USN improved the feeding, etc. of the 5"/38

[@andrewfanner2245]

Based on your interesting answer to the salvage in Scapa question were any of the anchorages or mooring locations in Scapa shifted post Pearl Harbor to mitigate the potential salvage issues if, by some freak of oversight a successful attack did take place ? "Ha, ve haf finally managed to clone Prien and his crew, now to send them against Scapa" and all that.

[@rv_at_the_beach2603]

USA, February....Hope that means the Third Coast (Gulf of Mexico). The Texas is in drydock, what an opportunity!

[@TheFreaker86]

00:22:47 I recommend to pose the question to JiveTurkey aka Sub Brief. He is a former USN sonar man and streams on Twitch.

[@Sarcastro_78]

Drach, have you been able to arrange a tour of the Ford while it's in Portsmouth?

[@JoramTriesGaming]

Re: the cut-out, could this not refer to the practice in early dreadnoughts of the forecastle deck being parallel-sided far back whilst the main deck under swelled out to full beam?

[@ronhudson3730]

Regarding the scuttling of the High Seas Fleet at Scapa, were the German commanders and crews prosecuted for their actions? Presumably they abrogated the terms of their surrender to the allies. If so, what penalties were assessed?

[@PepRock01]

I want to see HMS Battlecruiser as a ship now.

[@jetdriver]

I agree that a torpedo to the stern which takes out rudder or propulsion or both isn’t a golden BB. Especially since it’s a known area of weakness. Unlike say the shot that sank Hood which wasn’t a known or foreseen area of weakness.

[@mercoid]

Dry-Dock episode two hundred and twenty one

[@xxspottedhyenaxx8314]

"Provided someone doesn't escalate the caliber to battleship grade guns". You mean like Tsukuba and Ikoma in the IJN?

[@tomdolan9761]

I believe Constitution and Congress were originally laid down as 74 gun ships of the line but early in their construction it was decided to complete them as frigates. Philadelphia and President were built as frigates from the beginning.

[@untruelie2640]

I suppose the british submarines were transported (over land) via the White Sea-Baltic Canal. It was one of the first projects build by Gulag inmates in the early 1930s, although it was too shallow to be used by anything other than small transport barges. So at least it was useful to transport the british subs.

[@mememetal6631]

I didnt know when was it built but i knew it existed. Well if it is that shallow that the subs needed lifting its not a surprise not many people know about it.

[@davidbirt8486]

Well if it was built in the 1930's that would be impossible as the c and e boats were operating in the first world war and as far as I know were all scrapped by the 1930's.

[@markkasten5307]

Perhaps I am interpreting the wreck photo at 23 minutes, but it would appear that the steering board is on the port side of the wreck. Your thoughts?

[@stanislavkostarnov2157]

would Ganguts be a type named after a ship? after all, the Ganguts were a sort of distinct type of semi-Dreadnaught...

[@WALTERBROADDUS]

Thank God for Drydock..... I need a break from Politics and even my Star Trek Drama Queens this week.🙄

[@MrTScolaro]

FWIW, the guns at Wake and Midway were from decommissioned predreadnauts

[@brucewilliams1892]

@ 00:42, your photo of a gun turret (100mm?) - is that a rail track on the nearer part ot the deck?

[@535phobos]

Its for mines. They sit on little carts and you just roll them around and dump them off the stern.

[@Trek001]

Salvaged from HMS _By Jove_

[@brucewilliams1892]

Thanks, and I like the little bench. I assume it has a brass plate - 'Not to be used when guns are firing'.

[@ThatZenoGuy]

About 100mm vs 127mm. Technically shells are more efficient as they get smaller, due to explosion sizes getting smaller proportional the to boom. So 100mm is in that regard 'more efficien't provided it can sling more shells into the sky.

[@matchesburn]

50:32 [Takes this time to remind Drach of the Australian supply ship ever-so uniquely named the "HMAS Supply" (A195)] Granted, outside of this channel's time scope, but I distinctly remember you physically cringing and groaning a stream when you found this out.

[@jonsouth1545]

Who else is thinkig about a Fort Drum-esc construction with 18-inch Guns

[@davidmcintyre8145]

Talking of the 100 mm or 4inch as compared to the 5/38 it should be considered that even by WWI the counter to enemy destroyers was your own destroyers and light cruisers hence a capital ship needed by WWII an entirely AAA secondary armament

[@davidharner5865]

AA.

[@davidmcintyre8145]

@@davidharner5865 Anti-Aircraft -Artillery= AAA

[@niclasjohansson4333]

Not if your "capital ship" will have to operate all alone.

[@davidmcintyre8145]

@@niclasjohansson4333 very few capitol ships ever operated without an escort

[@niclasjohansson4333]

Bismark did, S&G did, etc.

[@raxsavvage]

was there any attempt to recover any scuttled ships for museum pieces? came across a dreadnaught intentionally scuttled just off the french coast for the purposes of making a ramp? beleive it was mulberry A , so far as i could tell no one was lost. probably a deteriorated mess now but would be nice to retreive her and start a slow restoration for museum purposes HMS centurion

[@k.f.m6901]

funny ship man :)

[@keithskelhorne3993]

00:47:45 would the Athenian "Ship of Theseus" win the longest usage, and service according to myth and ledgend? lol

[@HoverLambo]

Prince of Wales was lost to a golden torpedo...

[@sadwingsraging3044]

47:40 _after a 5 minute, more or less, dissertation by Drach on why it is a bad idea to build large gun shore based gun positions._ Me: but,,, but,,, LOOK at it!😳 If the best they could get was an odd cruiser with their shore based guns the fix is quite obvious to any civilized rational being.🧐 MOAR AN BIGGER DAKKA!

[@rodrigogoncalves6165]

Drach: if the germans had conquered the Iberian Peninsula, what do you think it would have been the impact on the naval part of WWII?

[@WALTERBROADDUS]

There is nothing to be gained. It's better to have them neutral and as trade partners the same way they used Sweden.

[@Dave_Sisson]

The British would have moved some of the guns on Gibraltar so they could fire north?

[@stevevalley7835]

The Germans had a plan to take Gibraltar, which involved pulling Spain into the war on their side, so the German army could cross Spanish territory to lay siege to Gibraltar. The problem with using Brest and St Nazaire was they were within range of British bombers. Using the port facilities in Ferrol and Rota, would probably put German ships out of range of British land based bombers. Of course, with Gibraltar neutralized, that opens the Atlantic to the Italian fleet, and makes all the repair facilities of Italy accessible to German ships.

[@rodrigogoncalves6165]

@@stevevalley7835 I dont think the german navy would venture in to the Med, apart from the Uboats. But it would allow the italian navy as a whole to venture in to the Atlantic. Specially because it would have made difficult for the RN to operate in the Med, and impossible to resuplly Malta. Also I think it would have made the North African campaign less hard for the Axis. Last, Lisbon is one the best anchorage areas in western europe

[@WALTERBROADDUS]

@@stevevalley7835 You spend a entire Civil War helping Franco. And to gain some port access you want to take Spain now? Somehow, that cost benefit analysis doesn't work. And one with wrecked infrastructure with an army that's already overextended.

[@darrylviljoen6227]

If one had access to Harry Potter style space expansion magic (making something bigger on the inside). How would this effect gun barrels, such as making them longer inside than their outside length.

[@spikespa5208]

Absurdus non sequitur.

[@Oszczywilski]

But armoured cruisers continued to exist in 1WW, they just became battlecruisers :) which was their next evolutionary step.

[@JevansUK]

ADMIRALTY WEEKLY ORDER No.351, 24 November 1911. All cruisers of the Invin- cible and later type are, for the future, to be described and classified as battle- cruisers in order to distinguish them from armoured cruisers of the older type. (ADM182/2) so they were at least until 1911 armoured cruisers and they didn't rename 1st Cruiser Squadron until start of 1913 to 1st Battle Cruiser Squadron

[@JevansUK]

I'd argue the Is are armoured cruisers

[@mvx8522]

Most reused name would be Theseus

[@MattSif]

Wouldn't the Nautilus be a ship named after another ship? Even if it was a fictional ship.

[@sugarnads]

Nautilus is a type of sea creature

[@MattSif]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nautilus_(fictional_submarine)

[@rogersmith7396]

The most common boat name here is Big Dick. I, II, III, etc.

[@ericjones9487]

Drach HATES praising the USS Constitution

[@Drachinifel]

Hardly

[@sugarnads]

Damn colonials

[@tomg3290]

Drach...bravo! Still and yet - you shouldd make a viking river boat...unless you're very brave ,then make a viking ...I dunno the name the fat little one , an open ocean viking boat...I dare you

[@gerardmdelaney]

Inn Irish, they would be called a coracle.

[@gerardmdelaney]

Or a round ship, in Sasenach

[@merlinwizard1000]

40th, 13 November 2022

[@am17frans]

Please mute your discord in the videos (34 min), I thought I had a message, and was confused about not finding it!

[@salty4496]

:)

[@andrew5278]

pr໐๓໐Ş๓ 😂

[@doxun7823]

Ahhh please mute your discord while recording this.

[@marcusfranconium3392]

Would you consider the HMS Ambuscade to be the origins of the dutch destroyer development and one of the reasons why the Tribal Class and Callenburgh class are so similar ?