American and Japanese Damage Control in WW2

What were the differences between damage control in the two major navies of the Pacific Theater? Lets take a quick look...
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[@Drachinifel]

Pinned post for Q&A :)

[@datgood121]

I remember in a previous dry dock you said you had no time for "new" Anime. From that i assume you have watched a few anime so my question is; what anime have you watched?

[@5peciesunkn0wn]

2:26 are you aware you said 'World War One"? :P

[@Drachinifel]

@@5peciesunkn0wn a few people have pointed it out, yes :)

[@BrettonFerguson]

Design Flaws. I've read the first Liberty Ships would occasionally snap in two in high seas. They would then sink like rocks. Later Liberty Ships had reinforcements to prevent this.

[@kevinconrad6156]

That picture of the USS Rambler was from WWI, interesting ship. I did not realize that the US Navy was integrated until after WWI when they stopped letting African-Americans serve. That ship and the US Navies history of integration/segregation would be great topics.

[@korbell1089]

Two philosophies that define the US military are: In the absence of orders, do something ! And my favorite, A sergeant in motion outranks a Lieutenant who hasn't a clue.

[@davidwells5611]

Check out the "Seventy Maxims of Maximally Effective Mercenaries" This is Maxim #2. Maxim #3 is "An ordnance officer at a dead run outranks EVERYONE!" You might also find a REALLY good web comic called "Schlock's Mercenaries". Win Win.

[@richardw2566]

Amen brother..Semper Fi

[@RandolphCthulhu]

There is the KISS principle from the US Navy too. Keep It Simple Stupid. If a nail is sticking out don't do something complex. Get a hammer and pound it in.

[@korbell1089]

@@RandolphCthulhu I had to laugh when I read that one. Its a great principle and most people tried to use it, but the only ones you actually heard saying it were young lieutenants who were brainwashed in the Academy, and us older sergeants would just turn our heads at each other and think, "Yeah, this is going to get ugly!"

[@korbell1089]

@@davidwells5611 All I can say is "Damn you!" Most of the maxims were things I heard in the army 40 years ago, and I think they have existed in one form or another since the first time man stuck a flint on the end of a stick.. But the reason for the cursing is I did google Schlock's Mercenaries and am now hooked on it!

[@adaw2d3222]

Japanese Navy: The beatings will continue until morale improves!

[@conradflanagan5003]

Imerium of Mankind: The executions will continue until morale improves!

[@tremedar]

@@conradflanagan5003 Morale has not improved...fire up the exterminatus!

[@thunberbolttwo3953]

@@tremedar lose perfect volunteers for penal legions.Not good.

[@balancedactguy]

You could always spot the Japanese Moral Officer...he had the Bullwhip, Axe Handle and a Makeshift Cattle prod to cheer up the men!

[@RGC-gn2nm]

@Caliban777 One of the last modernized American Battleships, Iowa I think, had swimming pools installed in some of the old AA gun pits. You can see them as white tarp covered areas on some top down photos.

[@TheGamer-ev7lc]

I like how ships in the Pacific would lose their bows and just be like "aight backwards time"

[@Silverdogz]

I mean, what're ya gonna do. Drive the hole into the ocean?

[@bomber6258]

coconut bow time - US New Orleans

[@MrDgwphotos]

The amount of water used to put out the fires on the San Francisco during the First Naval Battle of Guadalcanal might have capsized the ship, as the result of the free surface effect, had one of the senior surviving officers, Lt Commander Schonland, not recognized the problem and allowed the the water to flow from the higher decks down to the bilges where the bilge pumps were better capable of removing the water. For his smart decision making, he received the Medal of Honor.

[@angryman132]

Well deserved

[@tfwomble]

The Damage Control Assistant school in Newport, RI is in Schonland Hall. There are several artifacts in the lobby.

[@eviloverlordsean]

OK, that's just a badass piece of history

[@EvangelistNickGarrett]

Fascinating account. Wow!

[@nschur]

There was a ship (Normandie I believe) that the New York FD pretty much sank in the harbor after she caught fire. I was worried the BHR was going to suffer the same fate.

[@kokofan50]

Drachinfel, you’ve got it wrong about the flyover states. They’re the places with deep mechanical skill. When you grow up on a farm, you have to learn how maintain and repair all of your family’s equipment. In the US the stereotype is that people from cities don’t understand how machines work.

[@jagerbombasstic]

kokofan50 haha I just typed a comment saying the similar. As someone who lives in the fly over states (Oklahoma) on a small farm. I'm sure I know a lot more then a city person. I assume this is even more so in 1940 my neighbor who fought in WW2 (merchant marine gunner and helmsman) fixes all of his many tractors etc so shows the mentality of the generation.

[@totalwar1793]

That’s basically most families who are cheap in the US. My family lives in a city and we keep getting pissed that we gotta pay ppl for fixing stuf

[@wyominghorseman9172]

Drach, very good analogy of societal differences in familiarization of technology between Japan and the U.S. except for one point. Americans from "fly over country" as you call it were, and still are, far more familiar with machine technology than they're urban counterparts. It's a necessity of life to know how to operate and repair cars, trucks, tractors, combines, swather's, balers, crop harvesters, grain elevators, seeders, soil preparing implements, water pumps and irrigation equipment, livestock hauling and feeding equipment ect, ect. Urban dwellers in the 30's and 40's rarely owned a car and used public transportation. If they had any mechanical familiarity it was generally limited to operating factory machines. Americans from that era all had one thing in common, they knew how to take the initiative. In the society of today, generally only the "fly over" population retains that. The city and urban dwellers don't even know how to change a flat tire.

[@Drachinifel]

I'll take a correction from people who live in the US gladly :) Albeit in my defense from what I could tell in my research the 1920's/30's era Mid-West USA still had relatively less mechanization than the more populous states?

[@costakeith9048]

@@Drachinifel The mechanization of agriculture started in the late 19th century and the automobile was taken up en masse in Rural America in the 1920's, it was ubiquitous by the 1930's. In fact, I recall one survey from the mid 1920's that said the single largest occupation group visiting national parks (a craze of that era that was only made possible by the proliferation of the automobile) was farmers. It was not at all uncommon for households to have a car and a tractor before they had indoor plumbing. It was really rural America that drove the development of American car culture, as they are the ones who had the most use for cars; this is arguably why a more densely populated Europe never quite developed the same car culture as America: when automobiles were still the toys of the rich in Europe they were already starting to be regarded as a necessity by the lower and middle-classes in much of America. What rural areas did have less of was was industrialization, so they didn't have as many machinists and highly skilled tradesmen who exclusively worked on machines compared to more populated and industrialized areas (though many of these industrialized areas were in the mid-west, especially the 'eastern mid-west' like Michigan, Ohio, and Indiana, I believe you're thinking of the south and the west, not the mid-west). But a lack of these occupations didn't mean a lack of mechanical skills, in fact it meant the opposite, farmers were heavily reliant on their own mechanical skills to repair their own tractors and automobiles which quickly became vital to their survival.

[@Roanstar]

I recall a passage from the excellent book "Shattered Sword" in which a Japanese junior officer recounted trying to escape a burning doomed Japanese carrier at the Battle of Midway and was leading several enlisted men. Coming to a burning passageway, he soaked his jacket in a nearby water bucket, and wrapped his jacket around his head and torso for protection from the intense heat and flames. The enlisted men balked at running through a fiery passageway to a possibly worse location, so they sat down and sang military songs until their inevitable deaths while the junior officer took his chances and ended up surviving.

[@dusk6159]

Complemented by the awful, irrational, delusional and self-destroying end provided by the command and generals (compared to the soldiers, the even more relevant end of the two, to make it all happen... but if even the soldiers themselves are mindlessly on it, the potential is disastrous), the recipe for that maximum level disaster (and for all the japanese troop and formations especially, but also, inevitably, the big-picture outcome following it) is laid out. At least there were the exceptions, Kuribayashi is another one.

[@CaptainSpadaro]

That reminds me of something I read about some of the third class passengers on the Titanic: some of them ended up sitting at various points in the ship, praying to whatever deity they believed in, instead of actively trying to survive.

[@ulfosterberg9116]

@@CaptainSpadaro And the first class passengers stood in line expecting to be saved by the crew just because.... And they were.

[@Crosshair84]

@@CaptainSpadaro Not really the same thing. If you weren't lucky enough to get into one of the lifeboats, there wasn't anything you could do. If you went into the water, you died. There were only a handful of survivors picked from the water, due mostly to luck. Really, the best thing a person could do in that situation was stay on the ship as long as possible and find anything that floated afterwards.

[@jonwingfieldhill6143]

@@Crosshair84 or you could be Violet Jessop I believe her name was who happened to be in wrong place 3 times on the Titanic and her sister ships Brittanic and Olympic,she survived the sinking of the first two and considerable damage to the last.

[@jamesschultz5865]

A true story concerning the results of a lack of ridged hierarchy. During Arctic Light Infantry Training (ALIT) we were trained to erect a 10 man Arctic Tent in a 10 man groups. Since there was an excess of officers, there was a team made up of a Lt Col, Maj, two CPT's, a few LT's (both 1st and 2nd) and a Specialist. While the Officers, having never seen a 10 man, single pole tent, were all looking at the Colonel, the Specialist started pulling things apart. The Colonel asked said SPC4 what he was doing. Still rummaging through the pile of equipment the SPC4 said, "Every piece of US Military equipment has a set of instructions somewhere, Sir." About that time, the Enlisted man pulled back a flap revealing a diagram for the tent. "And here it is, Sir." The Colonel looked at the diagram, then the stunned officers, then the SPC4, then the diagram again. The Colonel pointed at the SPC4 and said, "Specialist, you're in command of this detail. Get this tent up, we need a place to sleep tonight." I got a letter of commendation somewhere in my 201 file for that.

[@existentialcrisis9857]

What a twist there, at the end!

[@brianspencer6397]

Moral of the story: If they don't know what to do, the officers should stand back and let the (senior) enlisted man take charge.

[@andrewdurden5230]

So was the Specialist then directing (ordering?) the officers in the tent assembly or did he just have to do it all himself?

[@Andyb2820]

@@andrewdurden5230 I think we all know the answer to that question lol

[@jamesschultz5865]

When you're placed "in command" of a detail, it means just that. You're in command, for the most part, regardless of rank. And if a LTC is taking the orders of a SPC/ SME (Subject Matter Expert), do you think the lower ranking officers are going to do?

[@colinmartin9797]

"5 torpedoes and half your hull is missing..." The USS Laffey would like to have a word with you.

[@SephirothRyu]

The Laffey just laughs such things off.

[@galaticemperor9881]

During my time in the US Navy I quite often heard the saying every Sailor regardless of rank or job is a firefighter

[@GritimoTheOdd]

Given how dangerous fires can be to ships, that does not surprise me in the slightest.

[@sillypuppy5940]

It's a choice of surviving in the water or dealing the fire. Not a choice I would like to face.

[@chrisangus7078]

Every body on a British royal navy ship is trained in the basic damage control fire fighting and flood .

[@dylandarnell3657]

Because if you don't put it out, the sea will.

[@Andrewza1]

I served on a wooden mine hunter. I would say we had the fasted response time to a fire in drills. Only ever had stupid irl fires that one squirt from a handheld put out but Boy we where fast in the drills. Only real firefighting work I did was bush fires. We not trained in bush fires but fire fighting is fire fighting. The triangle works on ships and in the bush

[@Big_E_Soul_Fragment]

Meanwhile in WoWS: Damage control party in British ships has enough materials to make a new warship

[@theleva7]

That's just a fresh shipment of spares from the colonies.

[@moritamikamikara3879]

That's damage repair, not damage control

[@n00btotale]

@@moritamikamikara3879 and somehow they are irl not interchangeable?

[@Matt123a]

Modern techniques - you PRINT a new ship.

[@joshthomas-moore2656]

@The 225677th Fragment of the Man-Emperor of Mankind you promise a British ship crew rum if they fix the ship you'll be amazed what can be achieved in record time

[@neildahlgaard-sigsworth3819]

The USN's attitude can be summed as "Learn from the mistakes of others as well as your own, as you won't live long enough to make all the mistakes yourself."

[@crazyasian888]

Fate protects fools, little children, and ships named Enterprise

[@Metal_Auditor]

This comment is a case where the lack of an Oxford comma sort of makes a difference.

[@jimmym3352]

Hah, well I served on the Enterprise (CVN version), and we didn't sink. So I guess it wasn't too bad.

[@philperry4699]

@Ron Lewenberg When no one's looking, drop it overboard!

[@trinalgalaxy5943]

@Ron Lewenberg depends on if anyone can afford it / enough of the hull and structure remain that someone is willing to foot the bill to convert it into a museum. failing that it will either be scrapped or sent to the bottom as an artificial reef.

[@davids9520]

The Enterprise was both a very lucky and well manned aircraft carrier. She seemed to always make the right choices. When danger appeared, she made the right choices. She went into battle only able to launch her aircraft, and not recapture them and survived the battle. When she was badly damaged, they rebuilt her better and stronger. Learning from the losses of her sister carriers. She was the first carrier to operate in regular night time missions, with her planes attacking the enemy in both day and night missions. I think both the Enterprise and the battleship West Virginia were the best examples of ships that were historically and scientifically, proof that ships could survive the worst that could be thrown at them, and come back to battle & fight another day. They earned the right to be saved.

[@lordshipmayhem]

I am reminded of the book, "All Hands on Deck", by Admiral Daniel V. Gallery. He decided to take the same damage-control course as his crew of the new carrier USS Guadalcanal - which the instructors had an evil delight in (he reports that apparently he was the first captain to take the course). They set him in the hottest part of every fire they set and where the smart thing would appear to be to drop the damned hose and run like hell, he just had to grit his teeth and carry on, lest he lose face in front of his future crew..

[@ovk-ih1zp]

Gallery was an American's seamen seaman & his reputation was VERY Well Deserved.

[@BrenBrenMartin]

Link please?

[@sarjim4381]

@@BrenBrenMartin Correct name of book is _Clear The Decks!_ and you can get it from Amazon at www.amazon.com/Clear-Decks-Daniel-V-Gallery/dp/B0007J0QT4

[@OtakuLoki]

@@BrenBrenMartin I believe that All Hands on Deck was rewritten and expanded into 20 Million Tonnes Under the Sea, which was also published as U-505 www.amazon.com/Twenty-Million-Tons-Under-Sea-ebook/dp/B009SC0Y02/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?keywords=all+hands+on+deck+daniel+v+gallery&qid=1580318795&s=digital-text&sr=1-1-fkmr0 Other than that, I think you'll have to troll Abe Books to find copies.

[@VintageCarHistory]

Ahh... Admiral Dan. First book of his I read was, 'Stand By-y-y to start engines' which was lying around the mess decks of the third ship I served on (USS Crommelin). He wrote in the same manner that he lived- full of salt.

[@RonJohn63]

16:52 Those farm boys from fly over states had been driving and repairing cars, tractors and well pumps all through their teen years.

[@MrChickennugget360]

honestly i would argue that farm boys from fly over states know more about fixing things than city boys since if you are poor and from the country if you shit is broke you and only you are going to fix it.

[@RonJohn63]

@@MrChickennugget360 and a recent HS graduate from Manhattan or the Bronx wasn't likely to have had a car, and thus the need to repair it.

[@wyominghorseman9172]

Drach, very good analogy of societal differences in familiarization of technology between Japan and the U.S. except for one point. Americans from "fly over country" as you call it were, and still are, far more familiar with machine technology than they're urban counterparts. It's a necessity of life to know how to operate and repair cars, trucks, tractors, combines, swather's, balers, crop harvesters, grain elevators, seeders, soil preparing implements, water pumps and irrigation equipment, livestock hauling and feeding equipment ect, ect. Urban dwellers in the 30's and 40's rarely owned a car and used public transportation. If they had any mechanical familiarity it was generally limited to operating factory machines. Americans from that era all had one thing in common, they knew how to take the initiative. In the society of today, generally only the "fly over" population retains that. The city and urban dwellers don't even know how to change a flat tire.

[@c182SkylaneRG]

@@RonJohn63 My instructor for the basic mechanic class (literally "this is a hammer, this is a wrench, these are pliers") for the USAF, in begging us to bear with the monotony of such mundane knowledge that we all took for granted, told us he'd had one girl come through his class who grew up in an apartment in NYC, and the only tool she and her mother owned was a pair of pliers. The building super took care of EVERYTHING, and she didn't even know what a hammer was, so she spent that class diligently taking notes. The possibility of there being someone in each class is why the rest of us had to suffer through it, but at least he tried to go quickly. :) (My class was in 2014, so this was sometime just prior to that).

[@alganhar1]

@@c182SkylaneRG That I am afraid is teaching 101, you never assume prior knowledge even when prior knowledge could feasibly be expected. I taught Marine Ecology at University for over 20 years and it was just as true there. You always end up going over the basics because there will always be a couple in each class who have missed certain points, or don't know others, or in many cases have simply forgotten because we are covering a subject they last looked at years before.... Over 30 years a Biologist and I am damned If I could remember the human digestive system with all the different enzymes for example. Not something I have ever had to worry about as a Marine Ecologist, so I have forgotten pretty much all of it...

[@papajohnloki]

When his flagship was hit by a kamikaze off Okinawa, Admiral Raymond Spruance was found by his staff manning a fire extinguisher. A Japanese Admiral would not

[@terr0rwolf]

Damn, that's not something you see often. A boss that's not afraid to get dirty.

[@connormclernon26]

terr0rwolf Spruance led a good life. He worked out every morning, and was spry to his end

[@CSSVirginia]

Can you imagine the respect and inspiration he instilled in his men by doing that? That's the kind of person you will follow anywhere.

[@Metal_Auditor]

And yet in his memoirs, he wrote, "I am lazy, and I never have done things myself that I could get someone to do for me."

[@connormclernon26]

stalrunner self deprecation perhaps?

[@RCAvhstape]

Drach: mentions "fly-over states" in a slightly negative way Me: watches to see how good Drach's damage control is

[@ELCADAROSA]

Considering the number of "hits" he's taken so far ... he may benefit from a wee bit of hands-on training!

[@datonecommieirongear2020]

@@ELCADAROSA Was he hit by 5 torpedoes and half his hull missing?

[@richardcheney6964]

@@datonecommieirongear2020 Nah, they were early Mark 14s, so he's just got some minor dents.

[@georgeb811]

Philo Farnsworth came up with the idea of television while plowing a field at 14 years old. Something to be said for those "flyover" boys.

[@WISteve]

Those "flyover country folk "are far more likely to have enough mechanical skills to repair something on the fly, even with the proverbial baling wire. Classic Brit snobbery.

[@pixellivesmatter8409]

12:50 "oh bugger! The tank is on fire 🔥" *chieftain bailing intensifies*

[@MaxwellAerialPhotography]

S I G N I F I C A N T E M O T I O N A L E V E N T

[@Solitude_Freak]

*Presses R to repair a turret, restart the engine and put out a fire simultaneously* "You know, I'm something of a damage control expert myself."

[@georgeburns7251]

Too funny

[@SonOfAB_tch2ndClass]

Enterprise (CV-6) was fueled by the power of hate after she lost her sisters Yorktown and Hornet, as long hatred existed she would remain unable to sink

[@chandlerwhite8302]

Enterprise was also powered by the massive refit she got at Puget Sound in late 1942 after nearly being blown out of the water at Guadalcanal. That fixed the deficiencies the Yorktown class had against torpedoes which put a sad end to Yorktown and Hornet.

[@filipzietek5146]

@Ron Lewenberg Too bad Pearl Harbour is on ilegally occupied Hawaii and the King of Hawaii was a good friend of Japanese Emperror.

[@filipzietek5146]

@Ron Lewenberg Too bad,I am not excusing anyone but americans could try to be a little bit less smug about their crimes sometimes.

[@cloroxbleach9551]

@@filipzietek5146 ok Mr hater

[@step4024]

The tragedy being your dumb, stupid, shortsighted, idiotic navy chiefs, decided to scrap this great ship and turn her into razorblades, when right now later generations of American children could have learned all about her...her achievements, her crews total love for her...a tragic, idiotic, illogical decision. But, then again...you are Americans I suppose. That ship could be like our H.M.S Belfast, still on the Thames, proud and loved. She helped sink the Sharnhorst.

[@jchrystsheigh]

"Flyover states" provided a lot of sailors who knew their way around tractor engines, pump systems, and other equipment. The modernization of the farm was in full swing before the Depression hit. My two farmboy grandfathers were naval radiomen, a particularly important technical job.

[@danr1920]

Exactly. We make fun of the city boys who knew nothing mechanical.

[@jameson1239]

Absolutely however back then most people who lived in city’s worked in factory’s and would also have some degree of technical knowledge

[@plchacker]

Not to mention, city boys may be surrounded by impressive technology, but are seldom capable of even running that equipment. For the most part they try to appear tough, act like they know everything, and fail miserably at implementation. Case in point: At small arms qualifications I stood in line to fire a shotgun. When I got to the front of the line, the know-it-all GM (From either Pennsylvania or New York,) looked at me and said, "I'll give you five shells, load three in the magazine, fire those three, then load two more and fire them. Return the gun empty." He said that jeeringly. I am sure he thought I didn't have a clue. I looked at him and asked, "What's my target, I don't shoot without a target." He laughed, then finally said that bush will work if you can hit it. The bush was about thirty yards away. I then skillfully loaded, fired, reloaded fired, left the chamber open and handed the shotgun back to a completely shocked GM. Elapsed time, less than ten seconds. The bush was still rolling when I handed him the gun. As I handed the totally surprised city slicker the gun, I looked him dead in the eyes and said, "Don't ever fuck with a country boy from Alabama." I went on to the M14 line.

[@jadeekelgor2588]

My great uncle from Kansas was a farm boy. He survived Pearl Harbor, fought the rest of the war in the Pacific and left the war as a Chief Motorman. Yep lots of talent those farm boys.

[@santiago5388]

American damage control: saves even the worst damaged ships. Japanese damage control: "save the picture of the emperor this ship is going down"

[@ieuanhunt552]

I've never seen ships with worts on them

[@HrothgarHeavenlight]

@@ieuanhunt552 I guess worts were popular in prohibition time on american warships.

[@VersusARCH]

And yet... Lexington, Wasp... And yet... Shokaku, Kumano...

[@issacfoster1113]

@@VersusARCH Lexington is why the US learned and become very good at DMGC

[@propellhatt]

@@ieuanhunt552 *French pre-dreadnaught battleships have entered the chat*

[@misterwango8156]

I remember the damage control films in boot camp. Specifically the tome about not properly stowing your personal gear or 'scivies' properly. Demonstrated by watching a t-shirt float through a flooding compartment and clogging an induction pump...the ship therefore being lost to your neglect.

[@starfighter1043]

Wow I'd never a thunk that 😳 damn that would suck they find your shirt clogged a pump w your initials or number or something in it 🤦‍♂️

[@Fulcrum205]

LOL I was Air Force and remember an entire floor of toilets at Sheppard AFB overflowing because some idiot airman wiped his ass with a T-shirt and flushed it. The culprit was identified by his laundry mark consisting of the regulation Last Initial followed by the last 4 digits of his SSN being duly marked on the offending T-shirt.

[@drakeconsumerofsoulsandche4303]

@@Fulcrum205 what happened to the offending party?

[@Fulcrum205]

@@drakeconsumerofsoulsandche4303 It was never confirmed but rumor has it he was made to repeat aviation maintenance training and that while waiting several months for a new class slot he was detailed to assist base civil engineering in the plumbing section and to be assigned every sewer problem on base. The MTL NCOIC was rather upset at him for causing raw sewage to rain out of her office ceiling.

[@dylandarnell3657]

" _Kirishima_ vs. _South Dakota_ " _Washington,_ moonwalking up behind _Kirishima_ : "This is A M E R I C A"

[@seanshi2945]

Dylan Darnell don’t catch you slippin now 😂😂😂

[@innocentsmith122]

LOL

[@callumgriss5422]

dont catch you nipping up

[@mitchelparker]

I’m retired USAF, Vietnam Vet and I love your programs! Dad was a Navy SeaBee Carpenter’s Mate during WW2. He was building Air Bases on Okinawa when the war ended. During my career I worked with half a dozen foreign military personnel. One thing I came away with is, an American enlisted man will take charge in a second if no Officer or NCO is doing it! It doesn’t matter what service! Some one just does it!

[@MasterZeeeee]

When you mention fires, the USS Forrestal in Vietnam war comes to mind Lots of crew died when the main firefighting force died early on and the crew used water to fight a jet fuel fire Water got under the burning jet fuel and allowed it to stream down a hole in the deck deep in to the ship Maybe a video about that moment in naval history

[@christophercripps7639]

Just search for USS FORRESTAL on UTube. A handful of vids come up. USS Forrestal a bit like IJN carriers at Midway - numbers of planes armed with live ordnance on fire. But with differences - jet fuel not avgas in use & lessons learned from USSs Franklin, Lexington, etc. & thus survived.

[@Nkp801]

even now that is one of the key events that guides current USN firefighing procedure and design. Also everyone is trained on the most common types of equipment, mainly the portables, and the bigger equipment is broadly similar enough to figure out quickly. Also, procedures are usually on the equipment

[@Wolfeson28]

The Forrestal fire has an interesting irony that, in the period from 1945 to 1967, the USN had moved from their "everyone gets firefighting training" mentality to a system of only a few specialist firefighting teams, highly reminiscent of the IJN in WWII. And yes, this contributed substantially to the damage and loss of life in the Forrestal fire, as many of those specialists were killed by an explosion early on. However, the USN's capacity for learning was still present, as a number of key lessons and improvements resulting from the Forrestal fire went on to make a major difference when a similar fire occurred aboard USS Enterprise (CVN-65) less than two years later.

[@gregsiska8599]

The Forrestal fire was part of my DC Training in 1975. Yep, lessons learned. We were back to everyone does DC by that time.

[@paulwoodman5131]

Yes, Trial By Fire. This film shows men reading instructions on how to use breathing apparatus on the flight deck as the conflagration rages. (edit) yes, Helium Road, much respect for their non-stop efforts.

[@rifleman2c997]

Drachinifel: "Japanese Ships being built in the UK" Second Pacific Squadron: "Did someone say Japanese ships?" Kamchatka: "Did somebody say torpedo boats?" *troll face*

[@XShifty0311X]

There's damage control. Then there's controlling the damage that the Kamchatka causes. *Throws binoculars in Kamchatka's direction.*

[@Delgen1951]

@@XShifty0311X Sorry dude that is lost cause. Cursed ship and all you know.

[@SportyMabamba]

El Bearsidente Flying Dutchman just curses you to sail forever, the Kamchatka will straight up get you killed

[@species3167]

The funny thing is that the Kamchatka meme is starting to pop up in other YT channels. Not unlike the Leeroy Jenkins thing. The last place I expected to find it: a 40K lore video!

[@SephirothRyu]

@@species3167 To be fair, the whole 2nd pacific squadron's mess just sounds like it would be a good 40k story of a particularly unlucky Imperium fleet (perhaps one that had to take on crew for some ships from backwater planets due to lack of personel). 40K Kamchatka, when asked on their status: "Do you see Tau frigates?" Rest of Fleet: **panics and starts shooting at some merchant ships**

[@MacMcNurgle]

Former military. I often found farm-boys knew how to think outside the box. As an aside, they often also knew their own physical limits. I think, having only spent a few months on a farm, that working solo makes you think about things like - can I self-rescue? Really interesting video. Thanks.

[@kevinconrad6156]

Our original neighbor, he passed in 2009, was a ships carpenter on the USS Salt Lake City during WWII, his battle station was below deck ready to patch holes in the ship as he put it.

[@tangocharlie11]

War always has a very steep and costly learning curve.

[@thearchives1094]

@@SusanPDavis and how does this relate to the comment made?

[@moerukaze5464]

Multi-level advertising I guess..?

[@sillypuppy5940]

And don't expect to learn much from the last one.

[@thomaswilloughby9901]

@jonny j Then promptly forgot everything they learned re-educated in Korea, re-educated in Viet Nam , same in Iraq. The history proves my point.

[@noonedude101]

USS Enterprise's Captain: We're losing a lot of aircraft! USS Enterprise's Forward Elevator: Okay. I go up and help too.

[@joekuncl3443]

I was told by an uncle who was a carrier pilot, that some of the Japanese sailors he talked to said the higher officers thought damage control was defensive, and there fore unworthy of Japanese.

[@tremedar]

Natural Selection at work, Japanese of the imperial variety were perennial contenders for the Darwin Award.

[@primastanislaus9184]

Myth, I've read documents on Japanese damage control procedures. Also, why would they consider in the making of Yamato-class armor so that she could withstand blows from her own gun? Isn't defensive not fit for Japanese value? How about the plans and keeping newer hardware in the DEFENCE of The Home Islands? What about the whole reason the Japanese go into war in the first place? To make rings of DEFENCE for Japanese interest in the region?

[@djbiscuit1818]

@@primastanislaus9184 if you *seriously* think the reason Japan went to war was purely to create rings of defense, I don't have words for you. It was the same imperialist crap that drove European countries and the US in previous decades/centuries. Saying it was defensive is nothing short of laughable.

[@primastanislaus9184]

@@djbiscuit1818 It is amazing how you lose the point so hard is nothing short of laughable.

[@joedehoe8352]

@@primastanislaus9184 hes just saying calling imperialism defensive is retarded.... which it is. Read anything Japans highest motive for attacking pearl harbor was to keep the US off the Pacific to allow Japan to further her imperialism as well getting more resources. Its widely known Japan seriously lacks resources which seriously hinders her production which kinda also ultimately lead to her demise. Granted it was plenty of things but the lack of resources is never good.

[@charlescurtius2261]

as someone who grew up in the "fly over states" i think the truth is the exact opposite of your position. we fixed everything ourselves. not only as a mater of cost but even more a matter of nobody else who COULD. a professional mechanic of any kind was most likely more than 100 miles away or better.

[@scottgiles7546]

You are being far too polite to Drachy. His statement is so completely factually backward, and he has shown good intelligence in other matters, that one can only wonder what he is using as his information source and what other important things he is so terribly, terribly wrong on. (Grrrrr!)

[@charlescurtius2261]

@@scottgiles7546 you know what Mama would have done to my behind if i wasn't polite. but i do remember being in the barn watching dad work on machinery will still in diapers. that man could fix anything

[@rickcoona8368]

As a fellow "Shade tree' Mechanic, Never underestimate the restorative powers of duct tape and bailing wire!

[@sobobwas6871]

Drach introduced nuance by saying that by accepting the simple truths but it is not always true, you guys let that fly completely over your heads...

[@MaxwellAerialPhotography]

You have to remember that the us was far more industrial back then, especially the cities, and frankly the “fly over” states constitute a relatively small percentage of the us population.

[@jochenheiden]

The sinking of the Kongō was a huge disgrace. The damage control officer committed suicide midway through the second it started going badly.

[@Rammstein0963.]

Kongo? Read up on Fuso 😁

[@bificommander7472]

@@Rammstein0963. Wasn't the Fuso serving as the piñata for an entire Task Force after running a gauntlet of torpedo attacks? I'd think no damage control is good enough for that.

[@bkjeong4302]

@@bificommander7472 Actually she sank from the torpedo attacks, though I do agree she could never have survived.

[@nicholasmoran1879]

@@bificommander7472 That was Yamashiro, Fuso's sister. At the Battle of Surigao strait, Allied destroyers sprang a torpedo ambush on the approaching IJN force prior to any gunfire between the main forces. The Fuso was hit by at least one of these torpedoes (more likely 2-3), and sank shortly thereafter, before she was fired upon any of the Allied force. Yamashiro was also hit by torpedo(es), but survived long enough to exchange gunfire with the Allied force before sinking. Some accounts of the battle flip the fates of Yamashiro and Fuso, but more recent evidence has definitively proven that it was Yamashiro that survived longer, not Fuso.

[@bificommander7472]

@@nicholasmoran1879 My mistake. I did remember if was a Fuso class, but I may have gotten the ship wrong.

[@anaveragesoviettankfromthe70s]

Me: *sees title* Also me: *IJN Taiho flashbacks*

[@captain0080]

That the one they tried to save with buckets of poopy water?

[@Rammstein0963.]

That's the one where they inadvertently spread gas fumes through the entire ship...

[@anaveragesoviettankfromthe70s]

Jah, und jah

[@sundiver137]

@@captain0080 I think that was Kaga. Her fire mains were OOC very early on.

[@bkjeong4302]

@M. S. The Second Pacific Squadron.

[@turbowolf302]

Seemingly magical pump with a suspiciously Irish accent: Oh bugger, the ship is on fire. Japanese sailors: NANI?!

[@chaosXP3RT]

Even today, farmers and "country boys" in the USA are some of the most mechanically inclined. My Grandpa grew up on a farm, became a tank mechanic in the National Guard and then finally got a job at a factory as a maintenance man. On farms, they weren't always the richest and didn't always have spare parts. This meant that many farmers would 1) save everything. If there was a chance this nail, bolt, pipe, board, etc. could be reused in the future, even damaged, it was stored for later. 2) everything was custom repaired or built. Many farmers repaired their own tractors and cars. Even if it looked like shit, they didn't care as long as it worked. Many farmers and many of the rural population, especially back in those days had a strong independent mindset and were keen about being self-sustaining. May had the opinion that they knew better than any government official or any urbanite from some "big city." When my Great Grandpa first got electricity installed on his farm, the first thing he bought was a radio! Then he'd stay up late at night working by lantern light, listening to the radio. One might imagine that lightbulbs, a refrigerator, an electric stove or an electric heater were more important, but Great Grandpa said what he had was good enough. He just wanted to listen to the radio while he worked!

[@vholes2803]

Save it. Use it. Make it do.

[@AdamosDad]

We trained well in the USN, we knew that we were the only fire and rescue. My job on board the USS Newport News (CA-148) was to provide a BAYLEY RED DEVIL BLOWER (vaneaxial fan) about 90 lbs of knee busting ventilation. It only had one handle on top and was very bulky, someone else provided foam and another the 10 inch hose. I was also trained as a first or second fire hose man . I was an electronics tech but had a gun station at General quarters. We were very much cross trained.

[@CraigLYoung]

AdamosDad : I'm not sure about DC training during WWII but everyone was trained in the early 70's. It started at Basic Training and we continue the training through out the four years I served.

[@kamchatka_survivor1959]

AdamosDad I was a corpsmen on LPD-10. We were encouraged to take surface warfare training. I understand everything you wrote. Most of the audience may not. Drachinifel is covering general damage control and he gave examples of operation. I felt you about the Red Devil.

[@scottygdaman]

I remember those blowers i would lug around the .. was it the p250 pump ? Gas engine pump.

[@scottygdaman]

I remember those blowers one handle lol.. I would often lug around was it the ps250 p250? Pump . Another weight darling In one fire training we were fighting a hot fire in a large metal box.."comparment" the blower guys set it up to vent not exhaust one way would of blown smoke towards us the other way towards the training ppl. ...oops lol

[@AdamosDad]

@@scottygdaman Hale P250 Mod 1 Portable Firefighting Centrifugal Pump, I had to look it up and I never got involved with using one.. What ships were you on?

[@antoniobeltranthesumosnipe8634]

12:51 "Oh, bugger the tank is on fire."

[@lycossurfer8851]

Said in deep Irish brogue

[@urishima]

Just don't be a T34 driver, bro.

[@NoirChat138]

A Significant emotional event

[@dylandarnell3657]

_yeets self out of spring-loaded hatch_

[@MaxwellAerialPhotography]

ALSO-RAN ! Hammond!

[@jarvisfamily3837]

The Japanese approached the war from the point of view that they wanted to die for the Emperor. The US approached the war from the point of view that they wanted to help the Japanese with that.

[@jamesharding3459]

More like: The US approached the war with the point of view they wanted to win the war and then go home safely.

[@nicholasavasthi9879]

alexgitano Read about the Japanese defense plan for a mainland invasion. It included having children roll under tanks with bombs, arming civilians with sharpened bamboo for bonzai charges, and the deployment of Oka aircraft, planes specifically designed as Kamikaze vessels. There are firsthand accounts of people being trained for this stuff.

[@kenneth9874]

@@nicholasavasthi9879 it could be said that the atomic bombs saved millions of japanese lives

[@KingAlanI]

Same energy as "USMC: 72 Virgins Dating Service"

[@peterzellinger6316]

Japanese Ship: Damaged Japanese Damage Control Team: Im gonna end this ships whole career

[@kyleabrezzi]

IJN crew: *fires and damage* I'm gonna pretend I didn't see that / that's not my job. US crew: we must save this ship as if it is the last one afloat

[@caav56]

>Japanese Damage Control Team: Im gonna end this ships whole career IJN Taiho in a nutshell.

[@jagerbombasstic]

I would actually say the "fly over states" men probably would be more inclined in fixing engines and such because of farming and such in the fly over states would mean young men that fixed tractors, housing, tech, etc out of necessity . Can't really head down to the store as easily

[@Crosshair84]

My uncle, a farmer, built a crop sprayer out of a burned down trailer house. Used the frame as the base and registered it as a motor vehicle using the trailers VIN. He has also built his own forklift that has gone through a few rebuilds. The first version had 3 clutches in the drive-train. He eventually swapped that out to a hydraulic drive.

[@swirvinbirds1971]

The highly populated states have a lot of farmers... Not sure why this is even an argument.

[@jagerbombasstic]

Swirvin' Birds thing is today when someone says fly over states and other terms similar they mean none city peoples. Yeah New York State has a lot of farming but it just takes a second on twitter etc to see the New York City people look down on them etc. that's more of the argument for today. I've seen people say farmers are just poor unintelligent people for growing food and not living in a city.... the mindset nowadays is to shit on rural areas. That's why this argument is even being made. Also because the argument can be made that someone working on a farm everyday would have more mechanical ability then a City born person. Obviously this is a extreme simplification, but I also though it was obvious but here you are commenting on it.

[@swirvinbirds1971]

@@jagerbombasstic Who in the world EVER says that? Sounds more like a bunch of silly B.S. to me. No one ever disses a farmer for being a farmer. 😆

[@reticulatedspline5733]

@@swirvinbirds1971 Not sure if you're trolling or in denial, but either way, it's a bad look.

[@GaldirEonai]

46:53 : "Nothing in naval warfare is an absolute"...except possibly Kamchatka, which was definitely an absolute _something_ :P.

[@titanscerw]

@@TaxFraudDealer that claim is absolute ...

[@blackdeath4eternity]

@@TaxFraudDealer only the sith can deal with Kamchatka ? , dose this mean the Kamchatka will rise again as it was not downed by a sith or are you letting the world know that the Japanese had sith among their number?

[@WildBillCox13]

For the Luftwaffe, read Galland. He states that the OKL did, indeed, bring high scoring pilots home to a desk job. Where they promptly agitated for a return to action. My spin on it is that it was most likely the speed*. Back home, they weren't handing it out. At the front, however, everyone was speeding his head off. *Amphetamines. If you're a Speed Freak, you won't want to give it up. Believe me. I've dated two.

[@the_undead]

A desk job and training new cadets are two very different things

[@tarkalak]

@@the_undead There were experts sent back for training. But the Luftwaffe lacked fuel for said training and had so much enemy planes that good pilots could get high scores.

[@billyjoe415]

YEs, even the German soldiers used speed, a lot. It was how the blitzkrieg launched.

[@roscop.coltrane8532]

Year ago while my dad was stationed in Japan. He went to the worlds fair in Tokyo. He told me a story how a group of Japanese would follow a designated leader who had a flag. The leader would clearly get lost, but the group would continue to follow the leader because that was their leader and their job was to follow. So they would continue to mark all over the event

[@TheLesserWeevil]

Me: "Look at me being an adult and finally getting into bed at a decent hour." Drach: *Uploads 55 minute video* Me: "I guess I can just try and get an early night tomorrow instead."

[@agolftwittler1223]

Same here. Oh well, at least we are not wasting our time 😁

[@shadowwarriorshockwave3281]

What are you British Canada has no such problem Is a joke

[@mercocfo]

Just put it on as you go to sleep in bed. Great sleeping pill for me

[@gwtpictgwtpict4214]

@@mercocfo Drach does have a very soothing voice.

[@davidwness]

Yes. I love his videos that are longer than 10 minutes...puts me to sleep every time...or I learn something. I also find other history channels to be good.... Roman history puts me to sleep very fast!

[@rjeffm1]

The phrase quoted by the sea trainers I remember is that in crisis, people generally do not "rise to the challenge," instead they "sink to the level of their training"

[@michaelwest4325]

Although I cannot comment definitively on basic training during WW2, my 1943 Bluejackets Manual does cover the topics of firefighting, flooding, damage and casualty control, things the basic and average sailor was to know about. The average USN ship had a dedicated officer for damage control with trained men in the subject who form the specialist DC parties, but ship's crew supplemented them, and were expected to at least report, respond and act upon damage.

[@alganhar1]

It really does make a lot of sense though, sure, your average sailor is not going to be as good as a specialist Damage Control guy, but what happens if the hit to the ship takes out all or most of your Damage Control team? At least if every sailor on board knows what to do they still have a decent chance of saving the ship, even if it does take longer to do so....

[@ELCADAROSA]

@@alganhar1, the best example of what you just stated was the fire on the USS Forrestal. The lessons learned from that fiasco - loss of primary fire fighting crew, improper techniques, etc. - set the stage for fire fighting training pretty much since then.

[@josephpicogna6348]

Another wonderful program, as always. I’m glad you mentioned wood as a primary tool for damage control. Even in my time, no self-respecting senior enlisted responsible for damage control with sale without wooden beans. They were easily cut the size tended to swell with the water and we’re much preferred to the adjustable steel supports, even with their rubber treaded feet. I also think some recognition should be given to the fire fighting and damage control schools of the United States Navy. By mike time we had added CBR and I went through all three, as both a division officer and department head. The fire fighting school was very challenging. We learned, if you were part of the A-Team and the officer had to always be there, to depend on the B team with the fog nozzle developed by the Boston fire department in 1941. Thank you for another great program

[@Marin3r101]

Beans? Mmmm

[@arkadeepkundu4729]

Americans, after the ship is crippled: We must save her & get back to port. Japanese, after the ship is crippled: The ship has failed the mission & disappointed the Emperor. It's time the ship commits harakiri.

[@jeffreyskoritowski4114]

After we take the most ridiculous measures imaginable to save the Empouer's portrait.

[@spartancam-rs5ru]

Description: "let's take a quick look" Video: *55 minutes* I'm not complaining tho

[@kamchatka_survivor1959]

The US Navy had tests as a part of advancement process. I went through close space fire training. Material Condition X,Y,Z was set in stone post Pearl Harbor. Even as a corpsman, I had to know damage control.

[@gregsiska8599]

In the USN when I served (1975-1982), all sailors were DC trained. This allowed relieving exhausted DC parties with rested crew, so that the DC effort could carry on. In addition, as DC PO in my division (I was a computer tech), I was familiar with all the DC equipment in our spaces. See how well the crew of the USS Roberts FFG-58 did saving their ship after hitting a mine in the Persian gulf. Supreme effort & improvising!

[@hellhound47bravo3]

Makes me wonder if those very small crews on the modern LCS's could handle serious damage.

[@ScienceChap]

Enter USS Aaron Ward. 6 Kamikaze hits, including 3 250lb bomb bursts. Returned to Pearl on one shaft after fighting petroleum fires and significant flooding.

[@Dave_Sisson]

Or the Americans could have learned from British practice and armoured their carrier decks. Then cleaning up after a kamikaze hit involved nothing more than sweeping the wreckage over the side.

[@veryinterestingchannelname6413]

Dave Sisson might be true, but both unarmoured and armored decks have their weaknesses. The British had armoured decks because they were necessary as British carriers were at first operating near air bases meaning you will face 1000lb bombs or above. Whereas the American carriers prioritised air capacity, as they will most likely be facing carrier bombers, so more aircraft meaning more protection via combat air patrol.

[@Nuke89345]

Dave Sisson Kamikazes were an unsuspected thing no naval mind thought was going to happen. Back then, literally turning your planes and pilots into human driven missiles as a strategy was an unheard of act. The armored flight decks success in protecting the RN carriers was a happy unintended positive. We did armored our carrier decks once we had the downtime for em in post ww2. In WW2, we didn’t as we needed carriers out and in the pacific as quickly as possible and larger plane capacity was more important in that theater than armored decks in 42-44. It’s why the British tried to increase their plane capacity on their future carriers such as lessening armor on the hangar sides in Indomitable, and permanent deck parks in future carriers. It’s the part not often mentioned between USN and RN Fleet carriers in WW2 was that for the RN to teach the USN the importance of armored flight decks, they also learned from the USN the importance of a permanent deck park and why carriers do better with large plane capacities as the RN was busily increasing plane capacities throughout ww2.

[@Nuke89345]

Dave Sisson Kamikazes were an unsuspected thing no naval mind thought was going to happen. Back then, literally turning your planes and pilots into human driven missiles as a strategy was an unheard of act. The armored flight decks success in protecting the RN carriers was a happy unintended positive. We did armored our carrier decks once we had the downtime for em in post ww2. In WW2, we didn’t as we needed carriers out and in the pacific as quickly as possible and larger plane capacity was more important in that theater than armored decks in 42-44. It’s why the British tried to increase their plane capacity on their future carriers such as lessening armor on the hangar sides in Indomitable, and permanent deck parks in future carriers. It’s the part not often mentioned between USN and RN Fleet carriers in WW2 was that for the RN to teach the USN the importance of armored flight decks, they also learned from the USN the importance of a permanent deck park and why carriers do better with large plane capacities as the RN was busily increasing plane capacities throughout ww2.

[@alganhar1]

@@Nuke89345 True, but you were always going to have that compromise during WWII to a large extent, Carrier displacement ramped up *very* quickly after the war so having a large hanger while also including armoured flight decks became not only possible but desirable. Given the war time priorities though, for ships at sea, huge redesigns could not really be undertaken, hence why both the US and the UK made specific compromises with their carriers based on where those ships were going to be mostly operating. Given what their priorities were those decisions made sense. The RN did not use deck parks to begin with for one main reason though, the Northern Atlantic, my Father in Law was Deck Crew on Ark Royal (the Audacious Class) and has mentioned more than once that the aircraft stowed on deck were always something of a worry when they were caught up in a Force 8 or above. It was definately a case of the two Navies learning a great deal from each other though, neither one could be claimed to have gotten everything right, but together I think they managed to get most things right between them.

[@model-man7802]

Dad was on YorktownCV5.Uncle Charley was on Lexington CV2.Everyone went to firefighting school and drilled rigorously on the way and during down time.The bomb hits on Lexington ruptured the avgas tanks so slightly in some places the could obviously smell the fumes but couldn't locate some of the leaks.The ships DC motors sparked off the explosions.Charlie told me this many times before he passed.Dad was an electrician and they frequently spoke about it.

[@rebelsqurl8959]

I had a grand-uncle aboard the Lady Lex (CV-2) at Coral Sea as well, I unfortunately don't know his specific station but I was told he was part of the ship's engineering crew. He unfortunately ingested oil-slicked water while abandoning ship, and it wrecked his health permanently. He was invalided out of the Navy in 1944 and died shortly after the war from cancer and liver failure.

[@model-man7802]

@@rebelsqurl8959 Engineering was the ships engines.The Bunker C oil that was used had alot of sulfur in it.Dad said when the abandoned the Yorktown at Midway and they were in the water the small of sulfur was very strong.

[@HMSFord]

I agree that SHATTERED SWORD is a great read. This book also shows how the cruiser MOGAMI was an example of GOOD Japanese damage control.

[@tomwagner1764]

Have read and agree. They also brought up the point the USN believed in redundancy of damage control assets AND DISPERSAL of same

[@mikehenthorn1778]

one big take away is the IJN had a plan for a short war. the U.S had an operational plan that they mad adjustments to .

[@steveschulte8696]

The Japanese plan was predicated on a big bad punch in the face or fleet, and then they will leave us alone. Japan in 1940, was resource poor. So they wanted the whole south Pacific and East Indies as their economic zone. China desires much the same today. The infamous War Plan Orange problems at the Naval War College looked at various scenarios for a war against Japan. One problem was how to get fleets across the Pacific without unacceptable losses. The plan as it evolved during the war resulting in island hopping, from unsinkable airfield to another. The Plan Orange did not result in a doctrine, but in a shared style of strategic thinking, and tactical thinking. But this discussion is mainly outside keeping your fleet afloat.

[@the_undead]

That's because of the Japanese Navy to some degree or another acknowledged the fact that they physically could not win a long-term war with the US. Because they would have to be extracting 3.5 to 1 losses on the US. That is for everyone Japanese ship lost they'd have to sink three or four American ships because they knew full well that the Americans could outfield the Japanese roughly three to one if not more

[@keptinkaos6384]

USN engineers on a ship "POWER OUT" response and this would have been procedure "RESTORE POWER ASAP".no if and's or maybes power is life.

[@legionofthedamned157]

power is salvation power is future power will show you the way PRAY TOO THE BOILER AND PRAISE THE TEACH PRIEST OF THE MACHINE ROOM THEY ARE SALVATION

[@seafodder6129]

Indeed, when you "lost the load" and went "hot, dark and quiet" it was best not to be in the vicinity of B&M berthing 'cause the off-watch engineers would be pouring out of there heading to the holes to help their on-watch shipmates get the plant back up. EOSS (Engineering Operational Sequencing System (step-by-step instructions on how to start major components of the engineering plant)) procedures would be, shall we say, greatly accelerated/abbreviated in such situations. Back in the late '80's as an MM1, I did a tour as an instructor at SWOS (Surface Warfare Officers School) in Newport, RI. There was a quote up on the wall: "Ships that cannot steam are no longer weapon systems. They are monuments to failure and have never impressed or sunk an enemy". I have forgotten to whom that quote was attributed but, bottom line, nobody wants to be _that_ ship...

[@polygondwanaland8390]

@@legionofthedamned157 knowledge is power? power is power

[@ELCADAROSA]

Indeed! When a USN ship has gone "cold, dark, and quiet", there are none more important than the unsung heroes - the ship's engineers; the Snipes!

[@Kevin_Kennelly]

"we have not yet reached SkyNet" "a spark went off and so did the ship" 49:44 "A number of Japanese carriers were damaged, survived, made it back, were patched up and sent back out again. Ahhm, most of them to only then to be bombed and sunk later on, but that's a minor detail." 51:06 "Which kind of makes you wonder if there was a somewhat angry and vengeful, if somewhat inaccurate and low powered deity, desperately trying to take the thing out."

[@Zarcondeegrissom]

"an entire elevator going skywards and attempting to join its airborne brethren" was a good one as well. B)

[@benmabry2280]

I think the USS enterprise was a testament to the fighting spirit and engineering of it's time. She was a great ship, one worthy of praise as she never backed down, never surrendered and fought on even when the odds would have said she was down for the count. It was a good ship and I'm saddened that she was scrapped. She should have been the one to be saved out of all the fleet carriers of that time period.

[@Nerezza1]

One of the reasons she was scrapped was probably because of the amount damage she had received during the war.

[@benmabry2280]

@@Nerezza1 actually she was back in service just as the war ended and she was used to help transport men and equipment back to the states. At least that's what I've read. The reason why they junked her was because she couldn't support jet aircraft and have a diagonal flight deck. She was very limited and no longer useful.

[@bongcloudopening5404]

@@benmabry2280 dont worry they'll use the name enterprise on the future ships to come like a new Gerald ford class carrier is about to take the name enterprise Although when will it be finished is currently unknown

[@davidvonkettering204]

From Nimitz' Graybook, I found that the Pacific fleet was encouraged to remove the many layers of paint on the existing fleet; I believe Halsey reported 25 Tons of paint had been removed from the ships under his command. The paint was found to sustain fires without any other source of fuel. Thanks for the wonderful history! Love, David

[@ChrisBrown-iu8ii]

I read the same thing that excess paint was a contributing factor to the loss of several older cruisers that had been painted repeatedly with no stripping at the beginning of the war.

[@KB4QAA]

@@ChrisBrown-iu8ii Even in my time in the navy in the early 1990's we were extremely conscious to chip off underlaying paint before putting on a new layer!!!

[@davidvonkettering204]

@@KB4QAA I mostly stay on dry land...but at least you confirmed my remembrance. Glad you served safely and got home. Have a great day, David

[@Engine33Truck]

It’s been said that Savo Island losses were what they were because of something similar. The thick paint, as well as pre-war fittings like curtains, carpet, paneling on the walls, etc, caused the cruisers to go up like matchboxes when hit. That was noted in the after action reports, and the Navy was quick to remove all that junk from the rest of the fleet.

[@gruntforever7437]

@@Engine33Truck Very true. Basically it took most of 1942 for the USN to really go to war. Damage control, getting rid of useless things (like Admiral 'Tassafaronga' Wright)....

[@Arizonaman30]

Im American and lived in Japan (3 years). This is fascinating to me having lived and worked in Japanese culture. The Japanese word for 'procedure' is tetsuzuki and I quickly started groaning whenever I heard it... Very dogmatic, prescribed and hierarchical approaches to any sort of problem or impediment in nearly any situation a workgroup faces. Im imagining a host of social and cultural factors that could be explored here as well.

[@brucenorman8904]

Related to that concept. Japanese 747 suffered partial loss of control, there was no procedure for that type of failure the flight crew did nothing and everyone died. Same failure occurred on another Boeing jet with an American flight crew. The American crew made use of other control surfaces to land the plane, they still crashed but most of the crew and passengers survived.

[@Arizonaman30]

@@brucenorman8904 exactly. Everything is about flawless execution of preplanned procedure in Asian cultures. Good for building semiconductors and car transmissions. Not so much for flying airplanes.

[@hanzzel6086]

​​@@brucenorman8904Small correction/addition: First; all three planes lost *all* hydraulic controls, effectively leaving only the engine throttles to control them. Second; the Japanese plane had de-pressurized, and the cabin crew didn't have any supplemental oxygen masks/didn't realize the problem until very late. And thus where undoubtedly suffering from oxygen deprivation. Third; the Japanese crew *did* attempt to use the engines to steer the aircraft, but (combined with/thanks to the lack of training/experience, since something like that was literally unheard of for jetliners at the time, and oxygen deprivation) didn't realize they could effectively control (aka, turn/safely decend) the aircraft until it was almost too late to matter (and thanks to the above mentioned issues they where unable to save the plane). Whereas the first American plane (which crashed as well, but just before landing and with some survivors) had heard of the first plane and what they had done (indeed, that's where they got the idea of using the throttles from), weren't suffering from O2 deprivation (iirc, they also had some time to think before losing all their hydraulics), and had less distance to travel. Thus they where able to make it to a "safe" area (and almost land safely). The second "American" (it was owned and operated by an American company, but not one of the crew where from/lived in the U.S) was a cargo plane, and they knew *all* about the previous two planes, and where very close (they got hit by a MANPAD shortly after take off) to safety (although they did have to fly quite far to turn around, in order to be low enough to land). So it's not exactly a fair comparison. Edit: ok, not so "small".

[@bobcourtier4674]

The portable water pumps were called “handy billies”.

[@jaddy540]

I was aboard DD540, during target training, a 5" shell went 'hangfire'. This means the powder is lit, and sizzling, STILL IN THE GUN! VERY DANGEROUS AND UNPREDICTABLLE. After about 2 minutes, they opened the breach,and brought a Handy Billy, hooked to a hose which had been stored after transferring oil. Someone. shoved this hose down the muzzle, pumping salt water and old oil into the mount. Two brave officers were slipping and falling, while trying to throw the hot shell over the side. When they fell, their uniforms absorbed the black oil. They continued to wear them long after. They had some long sleeve fire proof gloves for handling hot shells, that might blow up in your hands at any moment. Brave men. Handy Billys are great for fast pumping out of flooded basements.

[@andrewp8284]

Drach: “If you’re a tank crewman...if something’s on fire your first instinct is-“ Me: say “oh bugger, the tank is on fire,”...? (fans of The Chieftain will understand)

[@michaeltruett817]

That sounds like a significant emotional event.

[@lordshipmayhem]

The Canadian tank crews referred to the gasoline-powered Shermans as "Ronsons", inspired by the advertising for the Ronson cigarette lighter. The advertising slogan: "Lights first strike, every time!" Germans called it the Tommy Cooker".

[@nukclear2741]

@@lordshipmayhem That slogan wasn't used until the 50s. Look at the Chieftain's video on American armor myths.

[@jameshorn270]

Many armored vehicles have external pulls for fixed for the fire extinguishers. Step one was get out of the vehicle, step two activate the fire extinguishers from outside . If emptying two large extinguisher tanks did not work, step three was increase separation from the fire (run like hell)

[@jamesharding3459]

@@lordshipmayhem Also, the Sherman actually burned less than any other tank of the war by a large margin.

[@TomHarper1997]

2:23 - "American damage control entered *world war 1* on December 8th 1941" I don't remember America being that late to WW1 Drach ;)

[@northwoodsrailproductions4538]

TomHarper1997 we joined, left, and then rejoined lol

[@mihonishizumi6168]

Almost seems like he had a Jingles moment. :)

[@Otokichi786]

American General: "Lafayette we are...er, what's with all the big metal airplanes and tanks?"

[@peternickle1884]

Remember, these were the Standard Classes...

[@alecblunden8615]

Could well be true given the debacle at Pearl Harbour.

[@Paul42no]

My son enlisted in the Navy in 2010 and you can't graduate boot camp without passing the final exam which was saving a ship that is on fire. The Navy has a real ship floating inside a giant swimming pool in their boot camp at Great Lakes IL. The final exam is to save the ship on fire by putting out the fire using hoses and other equipment in the dark, with all the smoke and enclosed spaces. With no officers present to give instructions. The would be sailors have to work together and use the damage control knowledge that they learned without panicking. Failure leads to no pass and no graduation.

[@molybdaen11]

Now I understand why the american navy need so much funding - they burn out one destroyer for each semester :)

[@RandolphCthulhu]

Nice to hear Great Lakes is for more than gunnery training. My family have all been from the Chicago area and served in the US Army, except for a few Air Force veterans. I think we had a distant cousin who was USN and served on a minesweeper somewhere out of the Northwest US back in the 1970s. We always wondered what the USN was doing with a base on the shores of Lake Michigan. I guess it is worth the prime lakefront real-estate and not a complete waste. Tell your son to keep up the good work.

[@jeffreyskoritowski4114]

The Yamato's damage control officer was last seen waving his Katana and yelling charge.

[@OtakuLoki]

Fire is very egalitarian - it makes sense for the snipes, deck apes, gunners, twidgets, beebee stackers, and cooks to deal with it on an equal opportunity basis.

[@bobcourtier4674]

You forgot pecker checkers.

[@ELCADAROSA]

@@bobcourtier4674LOL!!! But if they got injured fighting the fire, who would help them? Better they stay in their battle station (med office, triage area, etc.) and handle any injuries.

[@jaddy540]

When i was a kid, 1930, a 'snipe' was any kid that picked up used butts, and re-lit them for a smoke. There were about 4 brands that sold for 10 cents a pack. Once our ship got past the continental limits,cigs were only 5 cents a pack,later to be 6 cents a pack.

[@kenneth9874]

@@ELCADAROSA fighting fires are the first consideration, you're not going to be doing much fighting if your ship sinks

[@ELCADAROSA]

Well, @@kenneth9874, not much use trying to fight a fire when she’s already under water.

[@jarvisfamily3837]

I still remember my time at Navy Fire-Fighting School at NAVSTA San Diego. In one of the training exercises the two guys on the hose in front of me bolted and I had to slide up the hose, get *it* under control, then fight the fire, all the time with a CPO yelling at me. I spent the next two weeks blasting black soot out of my nose. Fun times!

[@sewing1243]

The first time I went to Flight Deck Firefighting School at NS Mayport (Jacksonville Fl) we had the very first female sailor (WAVE) to have ever attended that training course there. The instructors had her do everything that was of any difficulty and among that was she was always on the nozzle end of a hose. One of the training scenarios was to approach a fire from downwind. There were 4 hose teams, 2 with regular nozzles to fight the fire and 2 with the personnel protection wands that put the big fan of water out that kept the flames away from the hose teams. The female sailor was on one of the nozzles for fighting the fire with another sailor. When they came up to the big metal rim of the fire pit the male sailor slammed the nozzle on to the rim, unfortunately for the female sailor she had her hand on the bottom of that nozzle. The moment her hand got squashed between the rim and the nozzle she bolted and ran straight out the back of the teams and through the flames that were coming back down to the ground behind us. Luckily she wasn't injured (other than a bruised hand).

[@RockinRobbins13]

*The five minute guide to warships (more or less)* 55 minutes later: Wow, all that in five minutes. Why is it an hour later? Because time stops during a Drachinifel video.

[@LionofCaliban]

Point of reference. There's being hit by air craft and then there's being Yamato'd or Musashi'd. There's points where you could have perfect damage control and it just doesn't matter any more.

[@mpetersen6]

As an example, HMS Hood. The damage caused by the 308mm shell hit was structurally rather minor. The secondary damage on the other hand. 💥💥💥 Seconded by USS Arizona or USS Shaw

[@shatara42]

@@mpetersen6 Amusingly enough, they glued Shaw back together and put her back in service.

[@mpetersen6]

@@shatara42 I used to tell the welders at work that they worked with the metal hot glue gun

[@Battleship009]

@@mpetersen6 And how did they react?

[@mpetersen6]

@@Battleship009 Chuckled usually. Especially the MIG welder. There is even a type of combined CNC/3D Printer that uses a wire welder to build up the rough part which is then machined all in one set-up.

[@rgm96x49]

"Japanese damage control" Oh boy, time for Taihou!

[@andro7862]

The US really ought to thank the impearial Japanese damage control teams for being so fucking incompetent.

[@Big_E_Soul_Fragment]

*[Albacore has entered the chat]*

[@rgm96x49]

@@Big_E_Soul_Fragment Good ol' Tuna, friend of every shitcan attempting to keep Taihou away from their rooms.

[@Big_E_Soul_Fragment]

@@rgm96x49 Indeed. The best bird repellent.

[@primastanislaus9184]

@@andro7862 Its amazing on how the video talks about various factor of damage control and here you ppl literally ignore the whole point.

[@therickson100]

I know it's out of your usual time period but it'd be interesting to hear a similar analysis of the different damage control efforts on board the HMS Sheffield and USS Stark.

[@scottl9660]

YES, that would be fascinating

[@gregorymcfann2248]

I remember when Sheffield and Stark happened, being in the Navy at the time. The biggest difference was that survivability was far more built into Stark than Sheffield. For example, both ships had redundant systems, but on the Sheffield they were all in the same general area, so they were all knocked out simultaneously. The same thing has happened in a couple of notorious airplane crashes. At the time this situation was blamed on the RN being chronically starved of funding, so that corners tended to be cut during the design and build process so as to launch as many hulls as possible with limited resources. Both crews were probably highly trained in damage control, but the design defects in Sheffield were more than any damage control crew could overcome.

[@keithammleter3824]

Drach: In the late 1960's, the Australian Navy, the British Navy, and the US Navy bought virtually identical guided missile destroyers (DDG's). In about 1982 following a joint exercise, a DDG from each navy was tied up in our harbour (in Australia) and open to the public. I went aboard each one and struck up conversations with crew, and so got detailed tours not everyone got. Now, the Australian ship was just the ship, maintained, but showing its age. The British ship was in better condition and had all sorts of weapons stored in different places and some ship systems parts. The American ship, although more than 15 years old and having steamed far more sea miles than the others, looked factory fresh and, as well as weapons, had stored in all sorts of nooks and crannies, lots of large toolkits, spare parts and power tools ranging up to a toolroom lathe. If the Australian ship got some damage in a fight, they would have to go back to port for repairs. To a large extent this was also true of the British ship. But not the American ship - as well as their stores, they could make quite a range of parts themselves, at sea. And if the DDG crew couldn't make it, their aircraft carrier in the task group probably could. How would the WW2-era Japanese navy stack up in this regard? Level of maintenance care, spares on board, and ability to make parts? Not too good at all I suspect.

[@rflameng]

The question here may be what % of Naval Expenditure a DDG represented/represents for the RAN, the RN and the USN. Or, as you mention, the USN DDG is part of a carrier group. The RAN / RN DDG most likely IS a capital ship.

[@keithammleter3824]

@@rflameng : True. The RAN is tiny compared to the USN - the purchase of a single DDG probably has the same proportional taxpayer impact as the purchase on an entire carrier group has for the USA. But all the more reason for maintaining what it has and ensuring its' survivability. But the opposite is clearly the case.

[@leonbgc]

i have been in the navy for 11 years and they know how to doll up a ship for show like no other and put on quite the show and yes everyone was trained in damage control and you would be amazed on how a freshcoat of paint can make the most weathered ship look great

[@keithammleter3824]

@@leonbgc What about the hull buckling between the ribs, caused by impact of water during heavy storms. aggravated by corrosion. Corrosion has been a problem in the Australian navy.

[@leonbgc]

@@keithammleter3824 i mean as in dolling up as to hide the aging of the ship and how they conseal the corrosion with paint and the what not

[@WildBillCox13]

Thanks for the shoutout to Combined Fleet. Those guys compiled an enormous amount of data.

[@bkjeong4302]

But a surprisingly number of the stuff there is either outdated or just plain false. Drach has heavily criticized their battleship comparison page for making some really ridiculous errors (like arguing the Yamatos didn't have all-or-nothing armour or that the KGVs were poorly protected compared to the Iowas-yes they claimed both of these as factual despite neither actually being correct). NavWeaps is generally far more reliable IMO, except for some cases where poor documentation has led to misinformation.

[@ThomasSteffien]

for my ears it sounds like the Culture of a nation has a large impact of how things are handled in wartime - the intitiative US-sailors took, and are allowed to take, maybe comes down to being raised and educated in an "open" culture and democracy - whereas in the japanese Navy the rigidity of hirachy was maybe a consequence of beeing raised and educated in a hirachy-dominated culture of state run by an emperor, which was noticable on teh ships too, as far as i know. - i than would like a video on Damge Control of German Ships vs. Royal Navy, where this factors also apply - thank you if you read this, sir - greetings from germany

[@topsecret1837]

That’s pretty universal to multiple situations nowadays and in historical eras. The Germans had extremely impressive damage control but the design processes were largely culpable to incompetent military hierarchies making mistakes in the design, and that’s about as far as the Bismarck could go when it came to her own survival. Germany cancelled a great number of warships on the eve of the war knowing they needed more resources in other areas (im not exactly sure what those areas were but considering that the Royal Navy lost so many ships to U boots the whole war, the fact they didn’t build up a bigger navy was a mistake that gave the British breathing room even with the losses of capital ships).

[@ThomasSteffien]

@@topsecret1837 well, my thoughts on this matter: The other areas in need for resources where - in shot: army and airforce. (the were also in the process of building up) There was rivalry and tough competition over the allotment of all kind of resources. But other countries had this problem too, i think... Building and running a larger navy was simply impossible - especially due to limited capabilities in steel production and verrry limited avaiability of certain raw materials for processing special steel alloys (i.e. heat resisting steel). Not to speak of the shortage of other materials, such as rubber and especially oil and oil products. To make it short i think it was simply not possible to continue the naval building programm (the so called z-plan - wich was in itself grossly over-ambitious - eaven in best circumstances germany would simply not have enough money to buy the oil needed to run this navy, if ever build...) - so they aimed to run a "poor mans navy" - building u-boats and use what was at hand at that time - with verry limited construction of new vessels, mostly smaller ones and u-boats. It was also virtually impossible to replace ships (destroyers and larger) that were lost. And there damge-control gets its strategic importance: if your ships can be saved - you do not have to replace them. A short notice to design-flaws: well they did take place, sometimes due to impossible fulfillable requests and some (not all) features of german ships are the result of: "what does "he" want, what do we have, what may we need, what can we do" ... witch lead to some "special" decisions... i would not be surprised if they desigend a "flying submersible battleship" ;) (to end with a joke ;) )

[@stsk1061]

I'm not sure why a hierarchical culture would affect damage control negatively out of all things. It's probably oversimplifying issues too much.

[@isaiahschmitt8680]

Militaries will inevitable resemble the societies that they are a part of. When they don't, the difference generally doesn't last, one way or another.

[@ronaldfinkelstein6335]

The two carriers he mentioned...one battered, the other losing most of its air group, were the Shokaku, and Zuikaku

[@justinhall3243]

My grandfather was on the Lexington at the battle of Coral Sea. His job was a AA gunner on one of the 5" gun mounts. He got flash burned by an exploding bomb and later had to make the jump into the sea.

[@jameskilcoyne1955]

My Uncle Al R. was a fireman on the USS Enterprise and he served during the entire duration of WWII on the Big E. A service he was mightily proud of. He was also proud of his service as a member of damage control for the ship. "We saved 'her', several times," he said. Ironically the Big E was back home, Hawaii, I guess, in for repairs when the war ended. He died in 1992, eaten up by cancer, but he attended his last reunion with his fellow damage control crew that year. A reunion he never missed. He was proud his role in the war was protecting/saving the ship, rescuing trapped/injured crewmen when she had been hit, and putting out fires that could have caused more damage to her.

[@warrenlehmkuhleii8472]

Meanwhile in the Royal Navy’s battleship force. Sir, half of our ship has been destroyed! Press T and we get half of the ship back.

[@northwoodsrailproductions4538]

Warren Lehmkuhle sir, the entire underwater portion of our ship is gone, the superstructure is just floating on the surface somehow! Officer: bro let me get my computer keyboard, I trained for 5 minutes in case of this very situation

[@hokutoulrik7345]

The standardized training in the USN was displayed when basically the entire crew of the Lexington was moved to the Yorktown and they, along with the crew of the Vestal, were able to get her back into fighting form before they arrived at Midway. Yes, Yorktown was lost, but the extra hands of the Lexington's crew and the Vestal managed to work a minor miracle given the circumstances.

[@paulmorissette5863]

Every member of the USN is first and foremost a damage control person. Constantly trained and drilled.

[@toddkes5890]

If the ship keeps floating you don't have to tread water

[@jaddy540]

Also trained to watch the water and sky,AT ALL TIME. After I was discharged, it took me a month to quit scanning the sky, looking for Kamakizies.

[@johnwilliamsscuba6487]

I'm a retired Damage Controlman can't wait to watch this after work of course

[@paulbrooks5347]

Good photos and the narrator almost gets it all right. Also prior DC man.

[@timberwolf1575]

LOL. Retire Damage Controlman - watch after work. Something missing here. :)

[@benmabry2280]

@@timberwolf1575 what's missing?

[@johnwilliamsscuba6487]

@@timberwolf1575 the boss takes a dim view of me watching KZbin videos while I'm working

[@johnwilliamsscuba6487]

From a young age I went too many u.s. Navy in damage-control schools although I was in the u.s. Coast Guard my cheap really liked me and he would send me to all the schools he could over there at Pearl Harbor and you're very correct a lot of the techniques and procedure are the same regardless of the ship you are on at that time I was stationed on a 378 those ships were roughly the size of a Navy FFG which in those days were plentiful the point is a damage controlman from the US Coast Guard would have no problem integrating himself in the damage control organization of say the USS Gerald Ford with a little bit of orientation and the standard indoctrination processes each ship has it would not be a real big issue because of the standardization involved between the two organizations and the larger damage control establishment as setup today

[@AdamosDad]

26:16 The Co2 would also act as a fire suppressant.

[@kyledavid17]

Yeah! I would love to know who this person was with those multiple brilliant ideas

[@charlesflint9048]

I love the pictures you use, they always bring your talk to life.

[@WickedTkl]

I keep watching this video over and over each time understanding better, learning English, history about my country in an exquisitely unique perspective. This gives me a lot more to learn than just about ships

[@lycossurfer8851]

Most that would "thumbs down" this are on the bottom of the Pacific

[@b.thomas8926]

They don't believe in damage control. lol

[@adamalton2436]

Drachinifel in a related vein, can you compare US and Japanese naval aviation training and comment why Japan was never able to replace its lost quality air crews?

[@lycossurfer8851]

@Nguyen Johnathan Germany did that as well, which accounted for many triple digit aces but as the war progressed.............

[@alganhar1]

In short: 1) Because the initial training requirements were so high and the pass rate was so low. It made for superb pilots at the start of the war but was a very difficult system to expand, so quality inevitably dropped. 2) As some have stated, Japanese Pilots flew until they died, were too seriously injured to fly, or the war ended. US pilots flew a certain number of Missions and then were rotated State side to train new pilots. The British did the same, my Great Uncle was a Lancaster rear gunner, served 2 Combat tours, but after each combat tour had a long spell in Gunnery school training new recruits the ins and outs of air gunnery. Few things teach as well as experience, and experienced pilots and aircrew were able to pass on lessons learned in combat that made new allied pilots and aircrews more effective as the war progressed. The flip side with the Japanese is they continually cut their training program, and there were few, if any combat experienced flight crew or pilots in their training cadres. 3) Fuel, fuel, fuel, as the fuel situation got worse for both the Japanese and Germans they had to cut back training flights, meaning new pilots had far fewer flight hours at all, let alone in the aircraft type the would be flying. A new German pilot joining a unit in 1945 for example would have around 10 - 20 Flight hours, a new US pilot joining his unit in 1945 would have between 120 and 150, often more, and many of those hours in the aircraft he was supposed to fly into combat. 4) Both Japan and Germany were geared for short wars, so never really put in the foundations upon which they could rapidly expand their pilot training. The US and British in contrast did. There are other reasons as well, but those are the main ones in short.

[@timberwolf1575]

In addition to keeping their veterans on the line until they died, Japan had a habit of fitting people to procedure rather than procedure to people and needs. The effect on flight crew training was that they had unnecessarily strict screening of flight crews for carrier qualification. They didn't really face the problems in their training goals until they basically had already lost their carriers. Then pilot training toggled over completely to just train them to take off and ram into an enemy ship. The Japanese military bureaucracy is truly a thng of marvel (in a bad way...).

[@demonprinces17]

They kept their pre war training which was more on how many they flunked then trained, by the time they switched to training all the good students were dead as infantry.

[@scuppersthesailordog]

The Allied ability to replace aircrew losses at a high level of quality is explained in some length in this video as part of a general discussion of the promulgation of knowledge in all areas of expertise, whether in flight or afloat. In the German and Japanese forces, skilled people were kept at the front line until they were killed, wounded or captured. In the Allied forces (land,sea and air), skilled people were rotated back to training bases to pass their hands-on knowledge and practices to newcomers.

[@dongiovanni4331]

What a coincidence, I finished Shattered Sword yesterday, with a decent section on damage control.

[@txtifosi]

If you like I can connect you to Anthony Tully.

[@timothyboles6457]

I think Saratoga was right behind Enterprise in the unlucky and very lucky departments, as Saratoga missed almost all of the important battles because she was being repaired because of some little damage

[@Engine33Truck]

Poor Sara was a torpedo sponge for a while. It seems like, when you read her history, every time she deployed in the first year of the war she got torpedoed by a submarine.

[@josephkool8411]

The Japanese just never adapted. Pride honor and courage are important, but they won’t alone win you a war against overwhelming adversaries

[@MrSpudz2]

No, they were in a scene stupid. From the basic seaman to the commanding admiral...

[@josephkool8411]

GT Morrow shutup stupid

[@jamesjacocks6221]

Nothing will, which is the point. Whatever possessed the IJN and IJA to press for war when Japan's only hope of resolving the trade embargo was to negotiate a withdrawal from China? Japan was motivated by cruelty and greed and that is apparent everywhere. She seems to have learned to provide for herself and not to have learned the cooperative nature of trade. The US generally trades for her needs but Japan stole and killed. Germany was on the same course and this fact, alone, explains a major difference between the combatants. A lot of casual buffs miss this, essential, difference. (If you lie you will steal, if you steal you will kill.)

[@jamesjacocks6221]

Yup, overwhelming adversaries will win by definition. Japan needed to consider that but they had no experience.

[@timberwolf1575]

@@jamesjacocks6221 New Japanese proverb: Do not go to war with giant Essex 3D printing machine.

[@DuraLexSedLex]

The Cleveland class USS Houston had some ridiculous damage done to it and survived. HMS Javelin, and HMS Porcupine are also kind of ridiculous fringe cases for ships surviving things that absolutely should have killed them...

[@jamesrather7170]

CRIPDIV 1 USS Houston and USS Canberra :)

[@DCFusor]

Um, the flyover states are where people know how to fix their farm and homestead gear. City dwellers are the ones who often can't fix a faucet or change a tire. Maybe different on Drach's side of the pond? Oops, I see this is well covered below.

[@Doug_Diego_Cazadores_Cassidy]

It's not about city/rural, it's about hanging out with your dad, in the garage.

[@JohnRodriguesPhotographer]

USS Wasp would also be a good example of design flaws. Her flaws were could best attributed to squeezing her into the Washington Naval Treaty.

[@retirednavy8720]

I spent a little over 25 years in the USN, retiring as a Chief. Of those 25 years I served right at 16 years on ships including the USS Abraham Lincoln CVN-72, USS Pyro AE-24, USS Cushing DDG-985, USS Willamette AO-189 and the USS Nashville LPD-13. There wasn't a year that went by when I was ship's company that I didn't go through extensive damage control training. Fire fighting, dewatering, portable equipment, shoring and bracing, hole plugging, pipe patching, ventilation, desmoking, valve alignment to isolate damaged piping systems, emergency electrical cables to bypass damaged systems, counter flooding etc... I ended up being a repair locker leader despite my rating not being a damage controlman. Men like me on the ship knew how to keep her afloat and operational. That is one of the main differences between the USN and the other guys. We are not going to give up the ship! There is one other aspect you didn't hit on. You kept mentioning officers. In the USN when it comes to damage control and things of that nature, the Chiefs get it done. The USN sails on the backs of the COP mess. That is the backbone of the fleet.

[@hirisk761]

I wouldn't feel comfortable serving on a ship named Pyro!

[@Telecasterland]

He got into the training issue with good pilots being kept on the line vs being sent to do training. The other issue was Japan was unbelievably brutal on kicking people out during training for their hair being out of place once. This type of stupidity limited their available bodies tremendously so replacement pilots were rare. The procedural advantage of knowledge sharing is so serious. Just great work Drachinifel.

[@vanDerNguyen]

My all time new favourite YT channel for long-form historical discussions. Your style of explaination is very comforting yet still informative at the same time. Great original content, keep up the great work @Drachinifel

[@vanDerNguyen]

Also I love these "internal thought process analysis" at 14:46, these are so valuable and provide so much insight into what the average person in this scenario may be thinking, and the way you include them with that hint of humour is always so good

[@LewisRenovation]

Great video. Brought back so many memories of my time on the SSN 705 running fire, flooding, and steam line rupture drills over and over and over again.

[@Dragineez774]

Dude, all those farmers in "fly over country" were - by definition - raised as mechanics.

[@robinblankenship9234]

Love your work, Drach. Great to see such an insightful and thorough presentation on such an important subject.

[@Mikey300]

Thanks for the image of Pittsburgh at 8:33!