The Drydock - Episode 269

[@Drachinifel]

Pinned post for Q&A :)

[@BHuang92]

How effective was the Navy of the Ukrainian People's Republic?

[@Johndoe-jd]

A very simple question: did the age of the battleship/big guns ended in WW2 or would you argue that it ended with USS Iowa and USS Wisconsin removal from the navy on 17 March 2006?

[@bkjeong4302]

Why were the officer’s quarters on the Littorios luxurious to the point of being on par with the first-class suites of actual luxury liners?

[@vikkimcdonough6153]

A four-question spread: 1. What are those rings on the roofs of the turrets of WWI-era German battleships for? 2. How do the effects of mines and torpedoes on wooden ships differ (both qualitatively and quantitatively) from their effects on steel ships? 3. What happened to the men in Seydlitz's forward torpedo flat after Jutland? The damage to the ship led to the spaces on every side of the torpedo flat, including above it, flooding, which would seem like it would create problems with running out of air, especially given that the ship took a few days to get back to port (including a while spent aground in the Jade estuary) and then promptly sank when finally at dock (meaning yet more time before the adjacent parts of the ship could be dewatered and access gained to the torpedo flat); were the men in the torpedo flat able to escape or be rescued in time, or did they end up all suffocating? 4. If a capital ship were to run headlong at full tilt into a bridge, who would win?

[@danx4880]

If, somehow, Renown was accompanied by Repulse during action of Lofoten, how would the battle itself envelop, given that old lady herself was able to "scare" the Evil twins away?

[@steelhammer96]

I would definitely support a pure "Naval Mythbusters" series

[@Sebastian_A_Var_Herman]

Same brother, it would be both informative and hilarious

[@ROBERTN-ut2il]

HINDSIGHT - 1) My dad was in combat from June 1944 aboard CVL-30 USS San Jacinto and in his experience the USN never suffered from a lack of resources - obviously earlier in the war and in other theaters that may not have been true. " The U.S. churned out seemingly endless quantities of equipment and provision which were then funnelled to not only our own forces, but to those of Great Britain and the USSR as well. By 1944, most of the other powers in the war, though still producing furiously, were beginning to max out their economies (i.e. production was stabilizing or plateauing). This resulted from destruction of industrial bases and constriction of resource pools (in the case of Germany and Japan), or through sheer exhaustion of manpower (in the case of Great Britain and, to an extent, the USSR). By contrast, the United States suffered from none of these difficulties, and as a consequence its economy grew at an annual rate of 15% throughout the war years. As scary as it sounds, by the end of the war, the United States was really just beginning to get 'warmed up.' It is perhaps not surprising that in 1945, the U.S. accounted for over 50% of total global GNP." "Every time I look at these numbers, I just shake my head in amazement. The United States built more merchant shipping in the first four and a half months of 1943 than Japan put in the water in seven years. The other really interesting thing is that there was really no noticeable increase in Japanese merchant vessel building until 1943, by which time it was already way too late to stop the bleeding. Just as with their escort building programs, the Japanese were operating under a tragically flawed national strategy that dictated that the war with the United States would be a short one. Again, the United States had to devote a lot of the merchant shipping it built to replace the losses inflicted by the German U-Boats. But it is no joke to say that we were literally building ships faster than anybody could sink them, and still have enough left over to carry mountains of material to the most God-forsaken, desolate stretches of the Pacific. Those Polynesian cargo cults didn't start for no reason, and it was American merchant vessels in their thousands which delivered the majority of this seemingly divinely profligate largesse to backwaters which had probably never seen so much as a can opener before." - Why Japan REALLY Lost the War www.combinedfleet.com/economic.htm 2) A classic error in warfare is "mirror imaging" - the belief the enemy thinks like you and will react like you 3) As someone who has taught history at the university level, a large problem in all contemporary history is "presentism". Judging the past and the people living in it by today's standards. You have to consider the time and place.,

[@johncrossphd342]

I agree with you. We have to use the Weberian method of interpreting people's actions by the meanings They attributed to them. In terms of Japan I suspect that their samarai culture was what led them astray. To the samarai war was all about honor. Once you lost honor what was the point? They simply could not understand how the US could suffer such a loss of honor at Pearl Harbor and not surrender right away. They were never prepared to face a war of attrition logistically or psychologically.

[@davidbryden7904]

I suspect that I'm not the only one that really enjoys a good Drach rant.😂

[@GrahamWKidd]

Thank you for your prodigious output Drach.

[@MikeLima777]

Just imagine a WWII movie with a scene where the Japanese Admirals learn that the US have that Ice Cream Barge.😂

[@questionmark05]

Considering some allied plan names, if you didn't know better. It could be a plan, a technology, or a weapon prototype code name. I'm imagining translation/understanding difficulties similar to the NUTS reply at German headquarters.

[@frankbodenschatz173]

Yes, broadcast in the clear.

[@ricardokowalski1579]

Ice cream? But do they have cookies?

[@frankbarnwell____]

Do those Americans think war is a baseball game? Hmm. We like baseball, too...

[@frankbodenschatz173]

@@frankbarnwell____ what kind of baseball?

[@nothim7321]

Big fan of you getting as much content as possible. I would love a longer in-depth series of maritime mythbusting

[@MrTScolaro]

I have always loved that picture of Tennessee, The modernization really increased her beam. Not only does it look cool, I suspect that the blisters added significant stability, making it a much better gun platform.

[@ROBERTN-ut2il]

Prevented it from sailing the Panama Canal - but in 1943-44, nobody cared about that any more

[@natthaphonhongcharoen]

49:05 What I meant to ask was the 155's barbette. Specifically the bits at the bottom slightly behind that stretched out like a pair of wings.

[@gildor8866]

Concerning the crew of "Das Boot" blaming the convoy for not saving the crew of the tanker: I wouldn't say the movie gets its wrong, or at least not totally. What we see is the crew reacting to witnessing people dying as a direct result of their own actions and they are trying to shift the blame on someone else. That is just human nature.

[@themanformerlyknownascomme777]

or it also could be that the crew of the ship simply do not know the command structure of their enemy.

[@friedrichweitzer3071]

Later KaLeu justifies it to Lt. Werner that there isn't enough space for shipwrecked British sailors on the U-boat. Pretty neat scene where they all sit at the kitchen table eating silently because of the previous incident. Maybe this scene is only in the extended director's cut

[@genericpersonx333]

One of the core themes of Das Boot is the conflict within sailors about modern warfare. That scene is not just about people deflecting their own guilt about killing other people, but a genuine outrage at how the modern nations had come to discard centuries of prized tradition in the name of modern military expediency. It is a deeply held principle among most sailing cultures that one does not abandon one's own sailors to the Sea; there is no negotiating or appealing to the waters, so sailors strive to save each other from that most merciless of judges. The Kriegsmarine, despite serving a radical and modern regime, was deeply traditional. Even the young and enthusiastic Nazis among the crew generally are thinking in terms more familiar to a Britisher in the Age of Nelson than their own educations would suggest. Tradition told them they should not wage war on the seas in certain ways, but they found themselves increasingly stressed to do so in the name of victory, sailors being increasingly reduced to mere ammunition to be expended. The enemy was fighting dirty, so they had to fight dirty, but they felt dirty for doing so, and it ate at them.

[@WhatIfBrigade]

If I were fighting on a tropical island and an ice cream ship showed up to give me ice cream I'd cry tears of joy.

[@ROBERTN-ut2il]

1) The veterans of Tarawa were particularly bitter at the brass who told them the battle would be over in three days and everyone would get ice cream afterwards, Their opinions on said dessert being unprintable 2) If you were actually fighting, as opposed to being in support, you would never see ice cream. Combat troops in actual contact were lucky to get any food at all. The real problem in fighting in the tropics was getting water up to the front. 3) One of the big problems cited by veterans of Vietnam were excesses like flying steak dinners with all the trimmings and ice cream for desert to troops in the field. It betrayed a lack of seriousness and attention to fighting the war

[@LankyAssMofka]

​@@ROBERTN-ut2ilIm sure they'd rather have an extra couple howitzer rounds

[@myparceltape1169]

​@@LankyAssMofka Good idea, the enemy were probably close to the fighting soldiers so drop the shells slightly outside the wire.

[@mbryson2899]

I would look forward to you doing a naval Myth Busters type of series. The _Shannon_ vs. _Chesapeake_ battle would make for a good start. As a USian, I believe it is especially notable in that the US ship was lost, the Captain's last words were carried into victory in a later battle, there are a lot of "flexible" facts and details associated with this duel, and because so many of the accounts are of the 32-page by Noone N. Particular variety.

[@jeffslote9671]

USian isn’t a word. Using it is enough to disregard anything you say

[@mbryson2899]

@@jeffslote9671 What demonym would you use?

[@jeffslote9671]

@@mbryson2899 The only correct term is American.

[@mbryson2899]

@@jeffslote9671 You need to get out more. 😂

[@scott2836]

A series of videos about the frigate duels would be most welcome. The “myth busting “ would be very welcome; the folks who get butt hurt about their slanted versions of history being busted are just not worth worrying over. As my late father used to say, “You can lead a horse’s a$$ to facts but you can’t make them think”

[@craigfazekas3923]

I have to thank you, Drach. You are one of the key components of my true love in life- building 1:700 scale replicas !! A few things need to be in place for true self-fulfillment while modeling- Drach, coffee, suboxone & nicotine (plus lighting, workspace, ect.) I may not live long, given the above; but it WILL be enjoyed until it's over !!! Lol Bliss, and I thank you & those that helped you develop into the scion that we all love to gain naval knowledge from !! Cheers, eh ? 🚬😎👍

[@MrFangsea]

My Grandfather story from the war was how his men stole an ice creamer maker from a naval ship. Hid it along the front lines. They then moved it on each patrol until they got the stuff to make their own ice cream.

[@johnpayne5404]

An angle to consider on Shannon v Chesapeake would be how well/accurately O’Brien described the action, lead up, etc. It’s certainly a great read but I’d be interested to know more. Thanks Drach!

[@73Trident]

Great Drydock as usual, Thanks Drach.

[@roberthilton5328]

One way the German thinking late in the war of America lavishing culinary luxuries on their troops on the front is represented (in not-the-most-historically-accurate film) by the "Chocolate Cake Fresh from Boston" scene in the 1965 American movie "Battle of the Bulge".

[@ottovonbismarck2443]

One of the worst WW2 movies I remember. Telly Savalas sitting in his "M-24 Convertible Sherman" after an "M-47 Tiger II" blew his turret off ... Jokes apart, there are records of how the ordinary "Landser" felt about the Allied material superiority in literally every aspect. I'm not sure that chocolate cake made the difference, but a mere look at the sky or always being on the receiving end of endless artillery bombardements certainly had an effect. Minor details like food etc.only added to the overall feeling that this war isn't going to end well.

[@vincentlavallee2779]

I saw this movie also (and liked it), but it made a real big point that the US could not only afford to send non military material across a vast ocean, but that it had the huge capability of supply, and that there would be no shortage of military equipment, which the overwhelming abundance of Shermans definitely showed. In one of the KZbin videos I recently watched, it talked about what the German military man thought of the enemy forces they faced, and when it came to the Americans, who came across as so 'undisciplined', that they (the Americans) fought unfairly because they used their huge overwhelming material to win, and not thru tactics. But isn't that the real way to win? After all, winning is the goal, isn't it!

[@tomdolan9761]

F what the Nazis thought. The US used existing private business models not only to supply the physical sinews of war but the morale building personal contacts with the home front. The genius of American supply is it was modeled after successful companies like Sears and not some dim witted European authoritarian

[@ricardokowalski1579]

Goering became yellow of envy when he saw the RAF Mosquitos, made of wood. Imagine the body blow to morale: finding fresh chocolate cake in a foxhole!

[@ottovonbismarck2443]

@@vincentlavallee2779 Winning in a war is usually done with superior numbers. The German "Schwerpunkt" isn't any different; you focus on one point and overwhelm it with numbers. The German advance to Moscow was possible because the Axis actually had an advantage in frontline manpower in 1941. When the Russian reserves from the far east arrived, the advantage was gone.

[@jaredthehawk3870]

The story of the Tang making off with the Tennessee's ice cream maker only serves to reinforce the image of US Navy submariners as a bunch of pirates. This is an image USN Submariners don't discourage.

[@jonathan_60503]

IIRC George Grider's memoir War Fish includes when he was XO the crew conspiring to steal a highly-classified radar tube from a secure warehouse in Pearl Harbor when theirs failed and the sub couldn't get a replacement through channels before their next war patrol. Bunch of pirates - but our bunch of pirates

[@88porpoise]

To be fair, I am sure surface ships were also heavily engaged in these kinds of "scrounging" and I bet that some of the Tennessee crew just happened to have some new booze or something that night (knowing that their ship could make do without one ice-cream maker until another was delivered). However, submarines could probably get away with it more than most due to how they operated mostly alone and out of contact with the fleet.

[@Cbabilon675]

LMAO you have got to love the guts and the absolute audacity of the crew of USS Tang to get that ice cream machine😂😂

[@chrisperez4694]

I know it was a fictional movie, but you see a display of this in Operation Pettycoat... do what you need to do to get your crew what they want. Again, the movie was fictional....

[@TasDave]

An insight I always appreciated into late war axis opinion of allied equipment excesses comes from one of the histories of the Gebirgsjager. A unit, when captured in 1945, encountered a column of trucks and were looking forward to no longer having to walk only to find out that they were ammunition trucks for a single gun battery carrying more ready use ammunition than the jager division had had access to for their mountain guns for the whole war.

[@Niftynorm1]

I had a history teacher who was an ensign during WW2 and had several humorous stories of 'Midnight Requisitions' in order to obtain desired supplies.

[@KPen3750]

I think the world is owed at least 1 animated short film of O'Kanes Ice Cream heist

[@hawkeye5955]

Ocean's Fourteen: Raiders of the Ice Cream

[@craigfazekas3923]

Either move that gedunk machine amidship, or assign 2 or 3 ratings to the stern to counter-balance the machine in the bow !?! Trim must be maintained, regardless !! 🚬😎👍

[@Alex-cw3rz]

6:36 I would love you to go over this and also Captain Philip Brokes innovations which are so interesting, there are some diagrams online explaining some of the innovations and he should be more well known. Interestingly enough even the wikipedia page is shockingly good with a lot of sources and detail. It also dispells some of the myths that cannon were just innacuarte tubes filled with gun powder and that although well armoured the six figates were not invulnerable to cannon shot, as there was only one mention of shot bouncing off in that engagement and it bounced off shannons hull when a shot hit the thickest part of her hull. Also the capture of Both Shannon and President and how they were described by the British would be interesting. As it also reveal that by the war of 1812, the six frigates were not the pinnacle of design, that they were when they were built. Which shows that ship develop was quicker than we imagine that within 15 years a ship could be considered using out of date techniques, which debunks the myth of how static the technology seems in the past 100 years of this period of naval development.

[@HMSPrinceofWhales53p]

The ice cream machine story reminds me of the fact on the USS Kidd they have no idea how she got her ice cream machine

[@paulamos8970]

Really good Drydock, Drach.👍😀

[@Eric_Hutton.1980]

Enemy to Warspite: we're going to kill you. Warspite just laughs.

[@peterbrezniak7224]

Thank you for giving us a glimpse behind the curtain into your research doctrine and decision making tree...seems to serve US well...As always the best to you and yours. PAB

[@chrisrowland1514]

you learn something everyday , didn't know that was such thing as a convoy rescue ship

[@ricardokowalski1579]

Have you heard of the Luftwaffe rescue buoys? The RAF also had rescue floaty thingies. These are also pretty interesting. Respectfully

[@88porpoise]

They are actually pretty interesting. Most were smaller freighters modified with extra accommodations and with a medical facility added, but later in the war they were converting some Corvettes to the role. It makes sense. When a ship in the convoy gets torpedoed, all the escorts are likely to be busy and you don't want the big, heavily laden merchant vessels pulling out of formation and put at even more risk. So you send a dedicated vessel with the convoy. It must have also been a big morale thing with the crews to know that such a vessel was with them. It is also notable that they were not Navy vessels but part of the merchant fleet and that is likely why they don't get noticed. You often see a Convoy with a list of warships and then just a number of merchant vessels which would include any rescue ship.

[@18robsmith]

Tang vs. Tennessee - a superb example of a well planned and executed "provo raid". Nobody knows where the order came from, but it has to be executed and timed to perfection, and the items (provo") required disappears from its source and appears on its destination, and then the destination rapidly relocates to another place....... Brilliant, absolutely brilliant. (and I'd have loved to have seen the look on the Tennessee's crew when they realised what had happened)

[@Elkarlo77]

About "Das Boot" got it wrong, the Author of "Das Boot" was depicted as Leutnant Werner, not the actual but he was a Kriegsmarine Berichtserstatter and Leutnant Werner was the selfportrait of Lothar-Günther Buchheim the Author. He was on two Submarines during WWII for Propaganda and "Das Boot" is the Story of those two U-Boats putt together. So when the Kaleun says. "They should be fished out by now." That is what the Germans were thinking without the knowledge of the actual Command Chain of the Convoys. But Lother-Günther Buchhein had experience of German Convoys as he was on them since 1940 in the Baltic. So he assumed the German Chain of Command was the same for British Convoys. In the Book are severals passages where he explain how Germans hunt Submarines, assuming it's the same for british ships. So it's a single view from the side of the kriegsmarine with lot of assumptions. The Movie is very close to the book.

[@nathanokun8801]

A couple of points about the "turtleback" sloped-deck-edge armor behind the thick side waterline belt. (1) This worked because up to the German late-model AP shells used in WWI, which had a completely bad , veryunreliable delay design (the British called it the "tortious tunnel" design based on a distortion of their prior non-delay base fuzes with a jury-rigged black-powder insert in the middle), all base fuzes, especially when used with sensitive fillers like British pre-WWI Lyddite, would usually explode the ptojectile at about 0.003 second after nose impact and thus would only move about at most 5 feet (1.5m) after penetrating the outermost plate hit. Thus the shells would almost always, unless somehow a complete solid-shot-like dud, blow up in front of the sloped deck edge plate, which could shield what was behind it from the blast and all but the heaviest projectile and armior chunks caused by the hit. This greatly lessened the ship damage from both non-penetrating hits throwintg armor chunks into the ship and even full shell penetrations. A very good concept. When delay-action AP shells (circa 0.025 sec or greater) were adopted, penetrating hits were much more effective and a thin sloped inner deck did not efficiently work anymore, so its weight was better-off being added to thicker belt plate. (2) the sloped-edge deck used in the last tweo German WWII battleship designs was an attempt to protect the power-plat and magazines by putting the primary armored dedk at about the waterline leveol with the edges bent down t the bottom of the side belt armor to handle underwater hits on the belt anywhere. These ships also added a rather thick upper belt extedin up one deck and put a thin "bomb deck" at it upper edge. This upper deck would keep out HE bombs and set off the fuzes of SAP and AP bombs. By having two entire deck spaces between the upper bomb deck and the primary armored deck, it was hopeed that few bombs from above or shells through the upper side would reach the lower armored deck prior to exploding above it and so minimizing critical damage. The sloped deck edge was very highly sloped at 68 degrees and thickened to 110mm (4.33") to make it in effect as resistant as the side belt, thus giving the critical spaces under the waterline deck double-armor resistance at closer ranges. From the side through the side belt upper or lower belt, there is little shcnace of a shell penetrating both the side and lower armored deck in more than perhaps a few large chunks. The main drwabeck here is that thismakes the two-deck upp hull, if holes are made in it, into a very poor floatation design with more chance of the ship capsizing from even moderate flooding above the lower armored deck. Better damage resistance during a battle balanced by much worst floatation ability from hull damage after the battle. Take your pick...

[@nektulosnewbie]

One thing to keep in mind about expanding dockyards is that we're talking about the French here. There's always potential bureaucratic interference. This was something that later haunted the French Navy building their carrier Charles de Gaulle. Originally, they planned to expand the dock she was to be built in but there was a problem - a shed directly behind the dock stood in the way. That shed belonged to another government ministry, and when the navy asked if it could be moved so the dock could be expanded, they got an emphatic "NO!" in reply and further requests failed just as badly. Unable to build the ship they wanted, they shortened the design and the increaeed beam to length ratio resulted in the huge drop in speed Charles de Gaulle has compared to her conventionally powered sucessors. That then effects the wind over bow for flight operations resulting in reduced payloads for her aircraft. It was just a cascade of problems that emerged. So, yeah, a SHED belonging to the French equivalent of something like the Ministry of Transportation is the reason why de Gaulle is such a terrible carrier.

[@telescoper]

I agree wholeheartedly with your remarks about how decisions get made and the thought processes (during the hindsight answer). I’d just add that not all decisions are rational and almost all are influenced by emotions to a greater or lesser extent. At least that’s been my experience.

[@hughgordon6435]

Drach, sir, doing a Naval version of Mythbusters???😮 muchly needed?

[@ABrit-bt6ce]

Drach dropping a Tallboy into an Iowa is going to get expensive.

[@dangarrett8676]

Who wants to make bets on how many times per week Mrs. Drach gets to listen to a Bismark myth rant like the glorious one we just got? I'm betting 3 per week

[@ianyoung1106]

Mrs Drach is the real hero of the channel.

[@ROBERTN-ut2il]

@@ianyoung1106 Don't forget the deerhound

[@disbeafakename167]

Surely she doesnt have to listen to that type of rant anymore. She must know better by now.

[@dangarrett8676]

@disbeafakename167 she probably does, but Whereboos gotta whereaboo (I probably spelled that wrong, I've never actually seen it written)

[@88porpoise]

@@dangarrett8676 "wehraboo" from Wehrmacht (the Nazi German military)

[@vincentlavallee2779]

This was a very interesting episode, more so than the past few, at least as far as topics that I found interesting. And once again, it depicts your utter amazing knowledge and understanding of naval history and technology. Just amazing! I am pretty knowledgeable about WW II, but I never heard of ice cream barges in WW II!

[@johnbenson4672]

The Tang story is absolutely hilarious.

[@ph89787]

Tennessee: Hey Tang. Tang: Sup Tennessee. Tennessee: Where is it? Tang: Where’s what? Tennessee: My Ice Cream Machine. Tang: About that….. YOU’LL NEVER TAKE ME ALIVE! (Dives into the water). Tennessee: Come back here you sardine can. (Charges after her) (Cue Benny Hill).

[@craigfazekas3923]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/g3yZhYuDqNuah8ksi=uqXZ8RGSa10DK-cF

[@SaffuillaKarman]

😂😂😂❤❤🤣🤣🤣

[@mikemcghin5394]

😂😂❤😂😂😅

[@hmsverdun]

Tbh on hearing the story I do have the image of Tang singing With Catlike Tread from Pirates of Penzance.

[@SaffuillaKarman]

@@hmsverdun Appropriate, as I was imagining the raid to the theme of The Pink Panther

[@aboolowoaa5179]

Dark Drach appears :) I *need* a fun friday or something with a fired up drach shooting down some silly myths like he is early in this drydock!

[@andneekey]

would love to know more about the Tang

[@joebrennan2086]

Can we please see a "Drach busts popular navy myths" video or even series?

[@Alex-cw3rz]

40:22 reminds me of the scene in Apocolypse now when Lt Col. Kilgore sends Helicopters over Captain Willards boat to ask for his surfboard back after they stole it.

[@ross.venner]

06:45 - Yes, please. How about starting with The Chesapeake Mill and actually touching the ship's timbers.

[@nathangillispie51]

Dreadnought is a fabulous book. Castles of steel isn't quite as good to me but well worth a spot on my shelf.

[@mattblom3990]

Regarding the frigate duels, I think the best way would be "Drach The Mythbuster" explaining the engagements but also busting the myths. Once you brought it up, I honestly could not see how else to cover it.

[@oscartang4587u3]

Fun fact: the Impiral German Navy also start to dropped the turtle back design since the Grosse Kreuzer 7 design study drew in 26-8-1916. 17:02

[@georgewallis7802]

i do thoroughly enjoy a drach rant or two 👍

[@davidlewis9068]

A series on the War of 1812 battles will be very welcome for sure.

[@OtakuLoki]

As always - thank you for another excellent video. Regarding your ideas with a look at the War of 1812 history of frigate duels, in particular, I'd LOVE to see the chronological series you suggested - in part because I'd greatly appreciate the mythbusting you'd mentioned - but however you choose to do that, when you get around to it, would still be awesome.

[@axelrajr]

36m08s: what Tang did is in keeping with the finest traditions of the navy, and quite tame with stuff I hear from the marine corps and likely served as an ongoing inspiration to later generations since it’s a rare fully documented incident. after all Drach, steal is an acronym: Strategic Transfer of Equipment to Alternate Locations. this year i believe, the USS Aries Museum posted a request for information on how their ship had an ice cream machine. The ship’s plans don’t list it, there is nothing anywhere else saying the ship should have one. there is no record of it being ordered or installed, and, much like with subs, it was probably deemed a waste of what little space a PHM had to supply the crew with an ice cream machine. And yet, they have one.

[@88porpoise]

5:30 You see the same idea on land. How many shows/movies/etc before an attack specifically have an order given not to assist anyone who is wounded, but to press the attack? As callous as it is to say, everyone is expendable in war and risking the mission for any one person (or group) is the wrong thing to do. So if saving the sailors on a crippled merchantman puts another ship at risk, it is the wrong thing to do.

[@ROBERTN-ut2il]

My neighbor growing up skippered an LCT at Normandy as a Lieutenant (Junior Grade) (RN Sub Lieutenant). He said they had orders not to break formation or slow down but to leave the rescuing to USCG Rescue Flotilla One - 10 patrol craft with extra medical personnel per each division to be landed. Roosevelt had specifically asked about rescue ships when briefed on Neptune and King had, for once in his life, listened. Would make a good episode, Drach. As would the saga of the Landing Barges Kitchen (I read an article about one where the skipper (a RN Midshipman = USN ensign) was so proud of commanding a vessel in history's largest amphibious operation "The C.O. is Midshipman J. S. Mcintyre, R.N.V.R., of Berwick-on-Tweed. He is nineteen and very proud of his first command."). Thery were designed to feed 800 men manning small landing craft two hot meals and one cold per day for a week. media.defense.gov/2017/Jul/02/2001772345/-1/-1/0/USCGRESCUEFLOTILLAONEHISTORY.PDF laststandonzombieisland.com/tag/rescue-flotilla-one/ en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landing_Barge,_Kitchen www.combinedops.com/HMLBK_6.htm www.naval-history.net/WW2MiscRNLandingBarges.htm

[@SamAlley-l9j]

Thanks Drach.

[@Wolfeson28]

57:28 So to sum up the whole "do you need first/second rates?" thing, you could sort of paraphrase a line from the movie version of The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe (don't ask me why that popped into my head🤣). "First rates do not win a battle...but I bet they help."

[@88porpoise]

36:08 Why do I suspect that a couple crewmem on the Tennessee just happened to find a couple bottles if booze or something on that night.

[@tomdolan9761]

Given American Pacific responsibilities a faster battle line which used more fuel must have been a consideration to limit the main battle line speed to 21 knots.

[@Thirdbase9]

Where can I find a copy of the picture up for the HMS Shannon vs. USS Chesapeake portion of the Drydock?

[@tomdolan9761]

Commander O’Kane was awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor for his war record so even if caught in the ice cream machine caper I suspect he’d have been lightly tapped on the knuckles.

[@ROBERTN-ut2il]

It's the "Medal of Honor" awarded in the name of Congress MOH not CMH

[@Alex-cw3rz]

6:36 I would love you to go over this and also Captain Philip Brokes innovations which are so interesting, there are some diagrams online explaining some of the innovations and he should be more well known. Interestingly enough even the wikipedia page is shockingly good with a lot of sources and detail.

[@SingMineshaftGapInAFlatMinor]

If there's one thing I love most about Drach, it's that you never know what he's thinking (and if my tongue were any further in my cheek, there would be a hole in my face). Fire on the Down Roll, Drach!

[@bkjeong4302]

Exeter is a shining example of how surprisingly little radar or even fire control computers actually mean in gunnery performance: the crew is the big X-factor, and that’s a factor that has nothing to do with the ship’s hardware.

[@ph89787]

Another example was when the Essex-Class began arriving in the Pacific. Enterprise’s crew made it a point for her to carry the same Air Group. Also, because of her catapults. She was able to launch and recover her aircraft at the same or even faster rate as the Essexes.

[@hughgordon6435]

We need a soft pop debunking? Would 100% give a thumbs up and comment for a Drach debunking😮😮😮

[@stevebarrett9357]

I notice on the intro to Rum Ration that the big turret guns seem to have a plug on the ends of the barrels. I was wondering when these gun plugs were originally introduced. Obviously they existed in the age of (pre-)dreadnoughts. Do they go back any further than that?

[@duncanbuchanan3269]

Hi Drach. With regard to the exceptionally good / poor performance, what about the battleship USS Washington versus the Kirishima? You had a modern, well built, and radar equiped American Battleship. Plus Admiral Willis Lee's training and leadership, especially in gunnery. Surely that should qualify here?

[@tombogan03884]

11:30 What probably happened was some History Professor read that it was a "new crew", and assumed it meant new to the job. Never having left school he had no context to work with. Your further comment highlights a peeve of mine. References that are all from other academics, with no period documents .

[@cathyharrop3348]

1:06:30: There is a movie called Winchester '76 (that would be 1876) about a Winchester Rifle that came out 'just right'. Sounds exactly like what you are saying about a ship of the class coming out 'just right' off the slipways. (Our) Jimmy Stewart is in it so it's a good movie.

[@notshapedforsportivetricks2912]

I wonder if the ice cream filching tales provided Joseph Heller with any inspiration for Milo Minderbinder in Catch 22?

[@B1900pilot]

Drach&friends, I know you’re all aware that large combatants in the US Navy had “feedings” w/soda fountain and Coke machines. Ironically, during my time 80-00’ we rarely had ice cream, and only once in awhile we’d have real “hard ice cream” vs. the kind from a soft-serve machine. On the Kitty Hawk, for example there were only four for the crew’s mess. Two in the forward mess and two aft. I can’t remember if the “small boys” I was on had a machine. During WW2 the IJN had “Ramune” ( carbonated drink ) aboard that was produced by a plant aboard the larger ships. Of course, the RN had “grog”, beer and spirits aboard. The Italian Navy had very luxurious accommodations aboard their capital ships for the officers. I cannot speak to the French or German Navies, but they had wine and beer aboard both countries ships. The “geedunk” was replaced by a more extensive ship’s store, or in the Kitty Hawk’s case, we had four different stores. One of which was exclusively snack items, there was a uniform shop, a main store and another smaller store. There were also soda machines scattered about the ship. I have to say, I’d have enjoyed the old school geedunk! USS Massachusetts had two ice cream machines in her’s. Food is a very important part of Naval life, and generally speaking the food I had was pretty good. We didn’t have any powdered eggs, but we did have “sterilized” milk…only good for coffee or cereal! I look forward to more videos about Naval life from all ages…It’s amazing how the more things change, the more they stay the same with young sailors! Liberty! Mail, Food! and Sleep! Our priorities…oh, and of course…Kai, Coffee and Tea…How did the word “Kai” come about? It wasn’t popular in the USN, but chocolate milk was(is)

[@B1900pilot]

I meant “GEEDUNKS” not “FEEDINGS”🤣🤣🤣

[@kkupsky6321]

Best opening theme song on KZbin…

[@hughgordon6435]

21:23 the diagramm before this shows Weights for stS ? What exactly do they signify? All measurements on that line are of that weight?? Or something else entirely 😮😮

[@kemarisite]

That is (IIRC) the specified weight of a one square foot patch of that material. The density of steel is such that a 1' x 1' x 1" plate weighs 40 pounds. So the 60 lb STS is 1.5" thick while the 30 lb is 0.75" thick.

[@animal16365]

O'Kane didn't take the ice cream machine. He just requisitioned a ice cream machine 😊

[@hawkeye5955]

It was a tactical acquisition.

[@Iain1957]

So to add to the list of books from the social sciences angle. No 1 in terms of cultural studies is Dening, Greg. Mr Bligh's Bad Language: Passion, Power and Theatre on the Bounty. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1992. Which is and interesting approach to the Bounty mutiny and has a lot to say about the roles of naval officers. No 2, and I am surprised you didn't mention it is Gordon, Andrew. The Rules of the Game: Jutland and British Naval Command. Paperback ed. London: John Murray, 2000. This again is a social history of the RN officers pre WWI and as I recall particularly discusses Evan-Thomas and his command. all interesting reads.

[@JevansUK]

I would argue that the slopes in WW1 era ships are really only there to catch stuff throw off the back of the armour from non penetrating hits and contain flooding. In part they can be danger vs bombs because they might deflect a bombs from the wings inward towards the vitals.

[@whodat7523]

With regard to the age of sail, it seems reasonable that at least some experimentation with choice of metal for naval gun projectiles occurred. Is it correct to state that most ships and land based cannon used cast iron balls and shells? Were other metals used, and if so then to what extent, such as lead, copper, tin, forged iron, or cast or forged alloys? While development of exploding shells was underway, was there experimentation with various metals to test and perhaps obtain certain performance characteristics, such as impact punch/energy, burst rate/energy, shell fragmentation and secondary damage caused by fragmentation? How did availability of metal ores, ease and cost of production, and performance characteristics play into discarding the various options of different metals in favor of the predominant shot that was eventually settled upon?

[@joebrennan2086]

Those super ships are the ones nations need to save. As an American, I would happily sacrifice any 3 museum ships we have to have Enterprise preserved.

[@SlinkyTWF]

I'm sure that the crew of the Chesapeake were quite impressed.

[@tomdolan9761]

The myth of the overwhelming superiority of German engineering prowess is overstated. They had some interesting ideas pushed forward by megalomaniacal slavers of a morally reprehensible regime. Once American industrial might was applied to the problem they and their allies were quickly dispatched.

[@johnshepherd9676]

People who push the superiority of German engineering cherry pick. Each country prioritized different technologies based on requirements. For every advanced German weapon there were more advanced allied weapons. Fritz X? Well the US Navy had UCAVs.

[@ROBERTN-ut2il]

@@johnshepherd9676 And Fritz-X was thwarted by Allied jamming so the Krauts abandoned it as no longer effective within a year. To use an expression of the period, it was "on the fritz" "(of electrical or mechanical appliances, idiomatic, US) Out of order; malfunctioning; broken."

[@johnshepherd9676]

@@ROBERTN-ut2il That is because the Allies dominated the field of electronic warfare.

[@ROBERTN-ut2il]

@@johnshepherd9676 Because of superior Allied engineering - but the Wehraboos never mention that

[@bizjetfixr8352]

I have a couple of questions for Drach, and/or the Peanut Gallery........ -SHP/Shaft Horsepower of ships.........Does a ships SHP total = total per ship, or per shaft? (In the case of a US WWII BB, SHP x 4) Belt armor: How installed? Bolted? Retained by ship structure? Welded? (Must be a PITA to weld). How is it repaired/replaced? I would assume it's not a continuous seamless belt. Joints between plates? Any of this repair armor still lying around? I understand that the US government has some "pre-Hiroshima/A-bomb" armor plate that was removed from scrapped ships and stored. Still exist?

[@timschoenberger242]

In the photo of the Texas in dry dock, it it my imagination or is the bulges to the left side of the picture look like they were stove in? If so, any idea how that happened?

[@stevevalley7835]

wrt the USN abandoning the "standard battleship" template, that is one of the historical pivot points that could have gone in a different direction very easily. The 1916 Navy Act specified a price limit for the first 4 battleships, the Colorados, but had no price limit for the other 6. The battleships being drawn starting in 1917, were 42,000 ton, 23kt concepts, using the newly developed 16"/50. Three of the Colorados were suspended before they were laid down, due to wartime change in priority. In June of 1918, Congress added language to the annual Naval appropriation bill compelling the Navy to make a start on the ships that had been authorized in 1916, but not started, due to the wartime change in priority, meaning the balance of the Colorados, Lexingtons, and South Dakotas. Meanwhile, BuOrd had ordered 14"/50s for the battlecruisers, when they were originally ordered, which were now surplus because the battlecruiser design had evolved to using the 16"/50. Were I in Daniels' shoes in June 1918, I would have proposed to Congress cancelling the three Colorados, as the previous decision to go larger and faster with the next class had rendered them obsolete, complete Maryland with 14"/50s, as the guns were in hand, abandon the 16"/45, and go directly to the South Dakotas. Of course, that would have had repercussions twenty years later, as Colorado and, especially, West Virginia, proved useful in WWII.

[@nla27]

Knowing that the venerable Thompson machine gun was designed with the mythical Blish Lock, I can 100% believe the turtle back armor of Bismarck was built for short range combat. Probably more so coastal defense vs Battleship than battleship vs Battleship. At the time the French had extensive overseas colonies and two coastlines to defend that couldn't be fortified like the Maginot Line.

[@tomdolan9761]

Wasn’t the Thompson created post World War 1 as a ‘Trench Broom’ and wasn’t adopted initially by the military but survived because of Federal Agents and mobsters buying enough to last until the build up to World War 2?

[@ROBERTN-ut2il]

@@tomdolan9761 There was just one batch manufactured by Colt in 1921 that lasted until WW2he first military use of the Thompson (M1921) was by the USMC when it was appointed to guard the mails after a raft of mail train robberies in the Twenties. The USMC persuaded the Post Office to buy them about 200 guns. Several years later the Post Office wanted them back and found they were in Nicaragua and Honduras, The US Cavalry bought a batch of M1928's (modified and overstamped M1921's) in the Thirties for Combat Car crews and motorcycle dispatch riders. During this time, Auto-Ordnance was nothing but a post office box with no manufacturing facilities, no paid employees and whose only asset was the rights to the gun. Despite Hollywood , it just wasn't a rip-roaring success and the number purchased by criminals and law enforcement was very small.

[@robertkelley3437]

With regards to the comment of what the Axis powers thought, when they found out about the U.S. having a fleet of dedicated Gourmet Condiment and Desert ships. They were thinking; I wish I was in the U.S. Navy.

[@telescoper]

Regarding the Japanese reaction to ice cream barges, there's a scene in the movie The Longest Day which tells a story as follows: General Colonel Hessler (Robert Shaw) receives some food confiscated from American soldiers, and when he notices the chocolate cake came from Boston, he and General Kohler (Werner Peters) have the following discussion: Col. Hessler: “General, before you go, may I show you something?” Gen. Kohler: “What is it?” Hessler: “A chocolate cake.” Kohler: “Well?” Hessler: “It was taken from a captured American private. It's still fresh. If you will look at the wrapping, general, you will see it comes from Boston.” Kohler: “And?” Hessler: “General, do you realize what this means? It means that the Americans have fuel and planes to fly cake across the Atlantic Ocean. They have no conception of defeat.” Almost certainly a figment of the screenwriters' imaginations, but a good story anyway.

[@gbcb8853]

Wrong movie. It was The Battle of the Bulge. Another commenter made the reference.

[@telescoper]

Ah, my mistake.@@gbcb8853

[@terencewong-lane4309]

Destroy ALL ridiculous myths!

[@Based_Lord_Humongous]

Did I miss the Drydock in which questions are answered about the Guide 338 RN Aquila? If so, can any of you direct me to that one?

[@ReichLife]

Is there any catalog with all questions? Looking through 269 videos is rather too time consuming.

[@wesleyfoster1967]

Is here, gave you a 👍! My notifications are on. I am a subscriber. I have received notification of your video 🙂. Audio video is good.

[@johngregory4801]

The more you explain the design philosophy and criteria of the Yamato class, the more I think Senator Tillman defected to Japan because we wouldn't build his outlandish designs.

[@jonathan_60503]

IIRC there were some claims - and they might have post-facto justifications after the Washington treaty blocked significant ability to increase USN battle line speed anyway - that even if the entire enemy battle line was faster it shouldn't mater because the USN Mahanian doctrine was to throw their battle line at some critical thing the enemy could not afford to lose. So their faster battle line would be forced to engage the slower USN anyway to prevent the destruction of that critical thing -- basically "we don't have to catch you if you have to come and stop us". (And, as you point out, tactically some speed disadvantage could be offset by simply turning inside any attempt to curl around across the 'T')

[@marcusfranconium3392]

Interesting , read and listen to the turtle back , But i mus say that the dutch battle cruisers design of project 1047 . did have quite a thick Armoured deck totaling over 300 mm ,or 30 cm protecting it from 300kg bombs . but also had a turtle back system under and behind its main Armour belt. Even the old Java class HNLMS Java had a turtle back build in as part of her Armour scheme . Quite interesting design drawings and all calculated on different battle ranges . and enviroments.

[@juicysushi]

The 1047s being designed by the Germans might have something to do with that. Same designers working with the same design resources.

[@marcusfranconium3392]

@@juicysushi NeVesBu and IVS/Inka vos all had contact with germany prior to ww2 and the companies forming NeVesBu even before ww1 . And the dutch are quite pragmatic in taking items that look promising and fitting their requirements . even the old dreadnought plan involved german and british design influances , taking pieces of each design proposed . . Project 1047 even had a modified pugliesie system , that was used on Roma. Also the early german 1800s designed ships where build with dutch help .

[@carltontweedle5724]

Love this channel, I have two questions What is the most Decorated warship, I ken that is a large area. You can pick the country. Two what would have happened if the Japanese had gone all in at Pearl Harbour. I mean every ship they could spare and kept bombing send the big ships in and invaded.

[@ROBERTN-ut2il]

The US didn't have any "Ice Cream Ships" they were large concrete barges en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_cream_barge. To give you an idea of how starved US servicemen were for "real" rather than "powdered" dairy products, when my dad's ship, CVL-30 USS San Jacinto, got back from the Western Pacific and docked at Hunters Point, there was a stampede for the refrigerated trucks parked on the dock, stuffed with fresh milk.

[@SuperchargedSupercharged]

Strategic Transfer Equipment Alternate Location.

[@PaulfromChicago]

Whut? Surely you mean President (44) vs Majestic (58), Endymion (42), Pomone (38), and Tenados (38).

[@Drachinifel]

Well, two of those were onlookers and one was there essentially for the ceremonials at the end :)

[@rayschoch5882]

"What did you do during the war, Daddy?" becomes a somewhat awkward question, I would think, if the truthful answer is, "I made ice cream."

[@ROBERTN-ut2il]

I'm not a fan of GSP, but see the opening scene in the movie "Patton" about shovel chicken excrement in Louisiana

[@gmanbo]

12:46 would love to see a generalized myth busting vid prior to the story videos then. When the doubters inevitably come around..... You have place to send them.

[@Isolder74]

Does the crew make a difference? I'm sure Adm Lee could tell you ALL about that.

[@tscream80]

6:36 - Sounds like the same reason why "Your Dinosaurs Are Wrong" won't cover Tyrannosaurus; too much pop culture mythology behind it.

[@stevewindisch7400]

Regarding the Shannon-Chesapeake battle, you could not do much better than re-reading "The Fortune of War" Aubrey-Maturin novel by Patric O'Brian. Yes it is fiction, but any modern historian who crosses swords with O'Brian regarding Napoleonic era naval history, will regret it... "Myth busters" are going to be disappointed. That is because the historic battles he described in his "Master and Commander" series were very thoroughly researched using original/primary sources over decades in a way almost no one does anymore in the internet age. Of course plenty of other things in the books are tailored to fit plot, but not those.

[@johncrossphd342]

Drac, you will never persuade crazy people re Chesapeake no matter how many facts you have.