Drinker's Chasers - How Rings Of Power Burned All Its Bridges

Taking accountability for a mistake, learning from it and doing better next time is a pretty human response to failure. It's just a shame the showrunners for Rings of Power don't feel the same way.

[@RosiG73]

Simon is Christopher’s son and they had a huge falling out and were estranged for many years. They made peace only right before Christopher died and that was probably at Christopher’s urging to get his house in order, so to speak. Simon has always been and will always be embittered because his father didn’t welcome him into the work of his grandfather’s estate because Simon wouldn’t be true to it and because Simon is talentless. So, Simon seeks to destroy the estate and get attention and more money in the process. Christopher would not let Simon touch any of JRR’s works and legacy while Christopher was alive. We, the fans of the actual canon, have picked up defending JRR’s work, with the passing of Christopher.

[@TheIndianaGeoff]

Sounds like House of Dragon's and the death of Viserys Targaryen.

[@squatchfromearth4076]

@@TheIndianaGeoff this time it's the little folk fighting back and not the nobles and they're scared.

[@gratefulguy4130]

That makes so much sense. I'd heard roughly that but not specificly.

[@thomasbailey921]

There may come a time when the gatekeeping of the LotR fandom will fail, but that day is not today! Honestly tho, we need to gatekeep the hell out of the things we love. Its bizarre to me how there are so many people that take pride in destroying good art.

[@rphilipsgeekery4589]

Some people are just bad to the bone , have great family, nice upbringing but just reject anything and want to destroy Thier heritage

[@mattcollins3591]

“It cost a lot to look this cheap” - Dolly Parton

[@chasehedges6775]

This quote is soooo true. It also describes a lot of the Disney+ Star Wars shows. 😊

[@gregsmith7949]

🤣 Truth! 👍

[@paddington1670]

Dolly is a gem

[@staceya5149]

They messed with the wrong fandom. Tolkien fans...you bow to no one.

[@chasehedges6775]

Indeed they did.

[@kvasir7537]

They bowed to hack-fraud Peter Jackson.

[@ericvulgate]

@the owl- have you considered therapeutic suicide?

[@davidjuby7392]

impeccable quote usage, I salute you

[@ivandelac764]

You bet your ass we don't. No one should EVER bow down to anything or anyone that destroys for one reason only, their own profit. F Amazon, F corporatism, F those who stand still when corporations become above law and exploit human rights!

[@AdderTude]

"Peter Jackson stuck _too_ close to the books." - Simon Tolkien And that right there tells you everything you need to know about the man in charge of the Middle-earth legacy.

[@Ale-dd3ek]

I miss Christopher

[@stewgems4256]

And then Epstein ruined Jackson's vision of the hobbit.

[@Alberto-wu1mj]

@@Ale-dd3ek me too.

[@dragonfly6955]

What a disgrace.

[@SW-fn7cl]

@@Ale-dd3ek yeah Christopher hated on Jacksons films big time but everyone understood his reasons and still respected him and the great work he did.

[@EnsignRedshirtRicky]

"You're a woman, you're a woman, and you're a woman. Well that's it, I'm out of ideas!" - Kathleen "The Destroyer" Kennedy

[@mirceazaharia2094]

@@TapiKoks Unlikely, but not impossible.

[@reallue]

Also "everything has to be female" -Kathleen "I have one idea that I talentlessly beat into the ground" Kennedy

[@darthXreven]

burn the witch!!! burn her!!! hey, you're dealing with the mob of angry torches and pitchforks....you know how long it took to sharpen this thing?? ooohhhh ho ho ho!!!! also you're dealing with the red lantern corps.....it's in our oath, third line: we'll burn you all! LMFAO [Atrocitus now beams with pride]

[@TrueFork]

It's turning a character into a woman and also "better" because of it. "A New Hope" could have worked just as well with Lucy Skywalker instead of Luke, but not if she also saved Obi-Wan and defeated Vader in a lightsaber duel thanks to her lesbian powers

[@JM-vp8zc]

Then Kathleen realizes she can’t define precisely what a woman is, because she’s not a biologist.

[@LazyLifeIFreak]

The Rings of Power was a demonstration, a demonstration to show how absolute incompetence can be propped up if there is enough money and will.

[@strategery101]

Quentin Tarantino is right. This IS the worst era for creativity EVER

[@SioxerNikita]

@@strategery101 Tell that to Everywhere, Eveything, All at Once

[@acerimmer8357]

Happens all the time in government, people aren't elected because they are the most qualified but because they most popular and know the right things to say.

[@ardendragoon]

Amazon is good at it. They did it to WoT. According to them, it was a success.

[@ThomeTeque]

Netflix the Witcher too.

[@AcmeWingbaby]

It’s amazing to me how Tolkien’s grandson is effectively responsible for the fall of Tolkien’s legacy, where Tolkien had a sequel planned for LOTR where Aragorn’s grandson would start leading Men back into decline due to too much distance from the hardship of the War of the Ring. From what I understand he scrapped it due to not wanting to leave the story with such a depressing end. It’s sad to me whenever his world-view (I assume) of Men becoming lesser over time proves accurate, especially in such a maliciously precise way.

[@heffe4257]

You never heard of the 3 generation theory?

[@filipvadas7602]

Simon is just straight up Morgoth

[@petriew2018]

@@filipvadas7602 you give him too much great, Morgoth was motivated by far more than ego and envy of a more talented ancestor.

[@Laneous14]

The saddest part is that isn't innate human nature. Children strive, they learn, they take chances, they toughen up. Unless the adults, the leaders prevent them from doing so. Our leaders in government and industry and culture are trying to decimate the very soul of the human race to turn us all into consumers who vote blue every few years. It's criminal.

[@joeterzio7175]

Incorrect. Tolkien wrote about 13 pages and found it depressing and "not worth doing."

[@wyattmann8157]

My grand-uncle was a genius. He loved Tolkien and had made carvings and paintings depicting Tolkien's work and other things. He had so much talent that I don't have. I was never jealous of him... _I was in awe of him._

[@ChaosSolak]

That means you were probably raised right, with adult figures who still made you feel proud of your own accomplishments so you wouldn't envy others for theirs. That's another thing to be in awe of, one that should be emulated.

[@chrisw6164]

If my grandfather was a genius like Tolkien, I would celebrate and honor that accomplishment. I don’t understand the weird jealousy or the compulsion to make yourself “better” than him. It doesn’t work that way, particularly in a creative field.

[@GeneralProfessor]

CS Lewis called it "chronological snobbery". Under such a belief the past is inherently and absolutely worse than the present, no ifs ands or buts. If you follow such an ideology, like any other ideology, you feel compelled to constantly prove its validity, so you take the past and you keep trying to "fix" it. Whether it's for the "modern audiences" or to make it "reflect the world we live in today" etc. you start at the conclusion and you work backwards.

[@dwood2010]

Insecure people are extremely petty

[@rphilipsgeekery4589]

Some folks react well to famous ancestry, others become bitter and angry , and want to defile it

[@rphilipsgeekery4589]

@@GeneralProfessor yes some folks think anything new is good , no matter how hideous...and anything old needs to be knocked down and rebuilt , these are the people ruining all the things we care about it

[@filipvadas7602]

I mean, you could look at it from the idea that you can never get out of an ancestor's shadow. However, that doesn't justify Simon's apparent quest to defile his grandfather's legacy.

[@filipvadas7602]

1. Simon is basically Morgoth at this point. A jealous heir who feels embittered by his predecessor (in this case his grandfather) that wants to ruin everything that someone else built. But because he can only corrupt and destroy rather then create, he is doomed to fail. 2. The biggest sin of Rings of Power in my opinion is the fact that instead of even admitting that they f*cked up, they doubled down and blamed the fans for the show's failure instead of their own writers and producers.

[@adamtr1026]

It's funny how the Nielsen ratings suggest less than 2mil people watched the entire series, and they still want to push their narrative that everyone is a bad person for not watching

[@superomegaprimemk2]

Its like Disney & Lucasfilm, they cannot admit that they FAILED and instead of accepting their failures and learning from them, they go and blame the fans for not understanding their vision, we badly need to install some of Japan's cultural values when it comes to failure into Hollywood, so that these IDIOTS can accept failure and fall upon their swords, as they should do!

[@Ethaara]

@@adamtr1026 + everyone who pirated it so they dont have to pay for this shit but still wanted to see what the heck is going on

[@Spazza42]

@@Ethaara I pirated the first episode and even I wanted my money back.

[@rexlumontad5644]

Critical Drinker: "Do you seriously believe your own hype that much?" Everyone from Rings of Power: *"WE ARE THE HYPE!!!"*

[@samfisherxboxog8925]

TFS reference. Nice

[@darthtripedacus1]

Go team 3 star!

[@IVMZR]

Audience: No, we don't think so.

[@petercross1879]

@@darthtripedacus1 *SNAP!&

[@harbl99]

"Oh no, we buy by the dozen people who will believe our hype. You can have them for the price of a day out in Oxford and some preview access. The ones who won't be bought you just scream disqualifying -ist words at. It's all perfectly simple."

[@ReformedSauron]

Tolkein hammered away about good heirs in his writings, and rightfully so. In the Lord of the Rings it was bad heirs that led to the decline of Gondor in the first place. The Tolkien estate should have taken the hint and been better heirs.

[@newtpondskipper]

Well when you dilute the blood of the Kings with that of lesser men these things happen.

[@Benji-jj2bg]

Ummm.. are you saying Tolkien should have had his kids killed off so they wouldn't inherit?

[@kathleenhensley5951]

Remember the line "lesser son of greater sires" I think Saruman says it to Theoden in the movies. I'd have to do a deep dive to check to see if also he says it in the books, but I am pretty sure he dies. Simon Tolkien definitely qualifies as a lesser heir of greater sires. I don't think he will have the redemption arc of Theoden, either. Theoden died well, with honor, and said he would not now blush to stand in the company of his illustrious ancestors.

[@testingmysoup5678]

Eh they made a ton and this show is so bad people won't even consider it lord of the rings

[@TangoNevada]

It's very rare for the Heirs or sons of Self made "Kings" (For lack of a better word) to live up to their Father or Grandfather. Because they grew up with a prividedge the original Patriarch did not. You can see this all throughout history.

[@atleelang4050]

It's not just a lack of talent. There is genuine malice against the beauty of the original work.

[@Lotsielots]

Absolute truth. They wanted to desecrate his work, his genius, the heart and beauty of his vision.

[@duality5503]

Woke malice...is intense.

[@christineshotton824]

Simon saying that he's tired of living in grandfather's shadow is as asinine as used wagon salesman Jimmy DaVinci being tired of not being as famous as Grandpa Leonardo.

[@exhaustguy]

There is a really good reason it is advisable to go into a career different from your famous parent. If he had stayed a lawyer, then there would never have been any overshadowing just an interesting point to be noted.

[@mirceazaharia2094]

@@exhaustguy Absolutely. Well said.

[@JM-vp8zc]

Jimmy Davinci! I’m dying.

[@vario6492]

You are ruining Kim's career, Jimmy!

[@danemiller4852]

My favorite part of Rings of Power are the youtube videos critiquing it. Content GOLD.

[@joeterzio7175]

A lot of people making money off a show that they supposedly hate or never watch.

[@LauraTheRed]

@@joeterzio7175 I'm glad people like The Drinker watch them so I don't have to.

[@shayla106]

@@joeterzio7175Yeah, I’m glad some good can come out of all the propaganda Hollywood keeps trying to push. Some one might as well make money off this crap, it’s not like Hollywood cares to make money anymore.

[@MrunmeshGharde]

Same

[@pano360]

Yes, comedic gold! Bring on Season 2 🤣

[@meggreen4058]

People are slow to forgive disrespect, particularly if they’ve been treated with disrespect for a considerable amount of time, and and they are even less likely to forgive after something they loved and cherished has been insulted and disgraced . There’s nothing Amazon can do to salvage this train wreck, not even a reboot, or 180 course correction would be enough. Even if they apologized, no one would believe a word to be sincere, which it wouldn’t be. Fans of true Tolkien will sit back and watch this disaster burn with great satisfaction.

[@mirceazaharia2094]

No forgiveness. No mercy.

[@thedealmama3070]

yep, this is exactly how the fans I know have reacted. If it’s by amazon they will never watch it. Dead to them. Completely.

[@jeffagain7516]

100 % agree. After getting kicked in the groin for 7 weeks in a row, zero interest in seeing anything from them. Gonna be great to see Gary and the Gang rip them yet another new one though.

[@octav3k]

I have to disagree here. I think we're all starved for good content and, while I don't believe they could get any pre-release hype due to their history, I'm sure if Amazon (or Netflix, Disney, any company, really) actually made a good show, word of mouth from the masochistic few who're still going to watch it could turn things around. But I don't see that happening any time soon, not with the way these companies have acted until now.

[@johnhughes2124]

@@octav3k I'm with you here. I was VERY Sceptical about HOTD (even more so when the race swapping was revealed) but Shad's review won me over to buy a NOW TV streaming subscription. I enjoyed it right from the first episode and am looking forward to season 2.

[@moviewolverine89]

If I were the grandson of a genius like Tolkien, I would make it my life's work to ensure that his legacy was protected, wisely managed and only licensed out to projects that at least respect him. This isn't even a question.

[@incurableromantic4006]

"There's a point where apathy kicks in" That's exactly it. The opposite of love isn't hate, it's indifference. And after enough crap, you stop being angry about it, and just move on.

[@etienne8110]

Hate is the opposite of love in that you can hate only what you respect and could have loved. Rings of power has fallen so low that it can't be an object of hate anylonger. Thus the indifference now.

[@redwolfgamevideo]

That’s where I am at with Star Wars and Marvel. The former was just utterly destroyed by its makers, and except for some gems here and there like the Clone Wars and it’s spin offs, nothing has been able to bring me back. The latter ended about perfectly with infinity war, and everything they have produced since has felt like a shameless half baked cash grab.

[@masamune2984]

Nothing is more endearing a characteristic than making a mistake, honing up to it honestly and openly, and using that experience to improve. Hollywood and Twitter have absolutely forgotten these basic human tenants.

[@reallue]

*owning up to it

[@TheGreySage0]

Never had them to begin with...

[@siddspain]

Sonic the hedgehog admitted his mistake and changed the sonic design

[@SW-fn7cl]

Amen

[@chasehedges6775]

Learning from your mistakes is one the most human things you can do.

[@kvasir7537]

Not acknowledging you made a mistake is one of the most human thing to do.

[@ericvulgate]

I make $60,000 a week selling junk bonds to pensioners in my spare time!

[@duyson5632]

@@kvasir7537 when they're children. Admit failures happen from time to time is what adults do. That's why these two little sheet still didn't learn nothing

[@King_JappyJoe]

Technically all species learn from their mistakes. Not just humans. And they won't either

[@GeneralProfessor]

A narcissist cannot learn from his mistakes because a narcissist never makes them.

[@Captain_Hapton]

"Tired of living in the shadow of his grandfather" Have you tried being... proud of it, maybe?

[@EvilDoresh]

"B-b-but _I_ want to be the famous Tolkien..."

[@AncestorEmpireGaming]

Star Wars and Star Trek fans have a lot to learn from LOTR fans.

[@nm-cp4ck]

@Mark Bravo agreed. The problem is that people have some issue with "gatekeeping". Nobody's allowed to condemn or criticize, so anything goes

[@BlueHans]

what does that even mean? rings of power made a shitload of money and has already been renewed for a 2nd season. what are the tolkien fans gonna do? as an ex-trekkie i'd like to know. really.

[@AncestorEmpireGaming]

@@BlueHans how did it make money? It was universally panned and the only reason it could have a net positive is because of the billion dollars Amazon dropped on it before an episode was even aired. Also: the fan base will sail the 7 seasons and not give Amazon a dime for their over rated streaming service.

[@LordVader1094]

@@BlueHans It wasn't "renewed" for a second season, the second season was already in production before the first even released. It was also literally the most expensive tv show ever, so it's not even clear if they broke even with the money it made.

[@charlesjmouse]

Christopher vs Simon Tolkien. It would seem to me: The former came to the conclusion: "Isn't it wonderful to have a dad I can be so proud of? I'm going to do my level best to nurture his legacy." However the latter took a more poisonous view: "Too much money is not enough money, besides I'm really bitter I'm not my grandfather." Doing good is the work of a lifetime, well done Christopher. Murder is the work of a moment, that's your legacy Simon. The rest of the Tolkien family? I don't begrudge any of them being set up for life though no 'fault' of their own. But either carve your own lives out of this world or keep your mouths shut and count your blessings.

[@samfisherxboxog8925]

The reverse of the grandson is Clint Eastwood son Scott Eastwood. The dude loves talking about his dad and the stories he shares with people about him. Had no idea about the dude till I saw a video of him on KZbin.

[@pedrovargas2181]

Such as Christopher did about his Father. Let's see about Scott's son.

[@joeterzio7175]

That's what happens when you own acting career fails.

[@keiththompson2172]

Yes and he is the douche boyfriend embarrassed by Clint in Gran Torino jeep scene - he knows his lucky place

[@pedrovargas2181]

@@keiththompson2172 Or trusts his old man

[@keiththompson2172]

@@pedrovargas2181 yep that speaks to my point

[@barryf7253]

The "showrunners" basically went to war with the fans, calling them every name they could think of before the show was even released. Then it just got worse. How do they expect to get them back now?

[@joeterzio7175]

Maybe if racist fans wouldn't have squealed like stuffed pigs as soon as they saw a black elf and dwarf in the early trailers people wouldn't have felt the need to call out the so-called "fans." And getting them back? Who wants that element back? Nobody. Piss off and watch something else.

[@immortaljanus]

I honestly couldn't give a damn. Haven't watched a single episode, don't plan to start now.

[@barryf7253]

@@joeterzio7175 The racism of fans is purely invented by the actors and showrunners to excuse the grade school level writing and ridiculous non-Tolkienian storyline. They simply want someone to blame for their own incompetence, so they fabricate a reason to call them villains. Every self-styled victim needs one.

[@joeterzio7175]

@@barryf7253 Right, racism doesn't exist and is all in the minds of people of color. GTFOH. You think you're talking to some other brainwashed alt-right fanboy?

[@barryf7253]

@@joeterzio7175 It's so easy to call anyone you want a racist with no context or examples to justify it. First show me the racism before pointing your bony finger and screeching. It doesn't exist except in your mind, because you've not shown it.

[@juliovictormanuelschaeffer8370]

Frank Herbert: a talentless son who wants to destroy your legacy? Christopher Tolkien: that's right.

[@DrStrangefate]

To be fair if I was Franks son id wanna destroy it too. Herbert was NOT a good father to his children. At all.

[@juliovictormanuelschaeffer8370]

@@DrStrangefate point taken. Tolkien doesn't deserve it, though.

[@Laneous14]

@@DrStrangefate So if someone isn't a good person their art deserves to be destroyed? So if someone was revealed to be a murderer then their work developing a treatment for cancer should be tossed into the trash?

[@DrStrangefate]

@@Laneous14 did I say anything about "deserve"? I said if I....I....was his son id probably want to do the same. Context, my guy.

[@jomanci]

@@DrStrangefate the books his sons made somewhat reflect that

[@Batkoku]

We drew the line at Tolkien. No. Without respect, we reject.

[@samcochran8203]

Hail Doomcock!

[@sulfuras1985]

My grandfather was an exponentially better man than me. My dad more successful. I'm fine. I can keep up, but we all hung out and never cared to HAVE to be better than the other. Yet celebrated every success of the others and supported each other in any failures. I'll never understand family competing to this kind of a degree.

[@EvilDoresh]

Must be narcissism

[@samcochran8203]

In the end, it all comes down to the fucking money, it drove apart some of my grandads cousins, I believe it was my grandad, either way, in my father's memory anyway, part of the family he knew got split apart over money

[@RichSmithson]

The past 5 years or so of Hollywood giving massive projects to unknown young "WOKE" directors who come out and attack fanbases is simply amazing to me. Its like taking bags full of money and setting them on fire.

[@oblivionsa7973]

It's being replaced and more with ESG-score based "investment" money. Basically evil people are financing media corporations to destroy our culture and further demoralize and erase us.

[@rexlumontad5644]

Lord of the Rings fanfic writers when making better stories than Rings of Power: "It's a free real estate."

[@ragdollcatledaandherbutlerstef]

Even my cat could write something Better than Rings of Power

[@letroll8954]

If you decide to write fanfiction, that means you adore the source material enough to try actually producing your own non-canon content on the theme for free. These people pretty much hate the source material and are getting paid to spread their own ideologies through ruining LOTR's canonical legacy. No matter how bad you are at writing, it's genuinely hard to produce fanfiction worse than this.

[@SW-fn7cl]

The fan made movies absolutely shit on RoP, the Hunt For Gollum, Born Of Hope and Horn of Gondor. Enjoyed all of them.

[@AuthorJohnADouglas]

The Drinker never disappoints

[@MarcelNL]

Not even Tatiana, after a whole bottle of scotch!

[@WaxTheDolphin]

while she-hulk always disappoints

[@MarcelNL]

@@WaxTheDolphin I'm having great fun with She-Hulk at this very moment! (On Disparu's channel).

[@joeterzio7175]

Five white guys commiserating about how much they hate diversity. Yeah, I guess if you're a bigot I can see the appeal of them and "The Drinker." He's just an ass to me.

[@AuthorJohnADouglas]

@@joeterzio7175 didn’t ask for your input, pissant

[@luigitheboar8699]

That influencer superfans comment on Sauron “maybe I can fix him” seems like a deep writing note now…maybe he was warning us

[@sigmacademy]

But all that matter is that Sauron's a hot bad boy, right? :P

[@daveeyes]

That was Peak Cringe...

[@Aging_Casually_Late_Gamer]

Imagine starting a book with it killing off all the characters and when you put down the book, the author tweets at you saying. "Don't worry, chapter 2 will fix it!" It's insanity.

[@Despair505]

That comparison doesn't really make sense unless it's one of those novellas that released on magazines lol

[@Story2ScreenMovieReviewPodcast]

To add to your point Nerdrotic at 0:40... I know from certain who individuals who have connections to the show that it was a knightmare behind the scenes. people were fired left and right, writers couldn't agree what story they wanted to tell, the show was originally about a young Aragorn, some wanted to adapt the Silmarillion but didn't have the adaption rights to the book, the Tolkien estate giving them a long list of things they could and couldn't do on the show such as referencing the movies (even though the showrunners wanted to connect ROP to the movies) writers being fired because they wanted to insert more woke elemets into the show and was met with disapproval, a Tolkien scholar being fired, COVID19 impacting everything, the originally being 10 episodes but somewhere being changed to 8 instead, Jeff Bezos allegedly visiting the set and was furious on what he saw and demanded changes to be made in the middle of shooting. All in all, this show was produced with everyone's hands tied behind their backs, not really knowing what they wanted to do and the clock was ticking, and the best they could come up with was fan fiction.

[@Nimbereth]

Best comment in this video.

[@NLBusiness391]

This episode was what finally pushed me to start the house of the dragon. I don’t think any other collection of KZbinrs could have convinced me to try it out lol

[@LuigiL75]

Is HOTD perfect?! No. Is HOTD good? Hell yeah!

[@joeterzio7175]

It's good but no better than Rings of Power.

[@joshsnow9498]

@@joeterzio7175 hard disagree, ain't perfect but it's quality tv.

[@cobbler9113]

@@joeterzio7175 What? In HOTD, the characters are interesting and their development throughout the season is excellent, the “strong women” in the series are just that, strong women who aren’t trying to be men, the Dragons are superbly animated, Game of Thrones court intrigue is back and there are quite a few good plot twists as well.

[@joeterzio7175]

@@joshsnow9498 Both are quality television to me. I frankly don't see a huge difference aside from one being for a more mature audience.

[@SheldonAdama17]

Gandalf: YOU SHALL… Bezosrog: Here’s a billion dollars. Gandalf: …pass

[@gqubed1]

Humility really shows, and owning up to mistakes would be so incredibly powerful, at this point in time, that they would get all of us for season 2.

[@FirstMetalHamster]

Why couldn't he just protect the legacy of his grandfather? Just protect it, and the fans would've loved him for it. Nobody would've cared if he himself was a bad writer or not. Not everyone can be good at writing.

[@nienor1510]

100% this. Now we hate him instead.

[@mikkelnpetersen]

"He stuck too close to the book" WRONG, you can NEVER stay TOO close to the books.

[@mariusmitre492]

They keep bringing the excuse that Galadriel was foolish and stubborn because she was young. But she was still thousands of years old at that time. Or the people who liked the show say that we are being too hard on that show and that we should appreciate the amazing visuals, costumes and fights. But the thing is that amazon hyped it all in the first place by having the biggest budget a show ever had and making it a part of such a beloved franchise.

[@pilroberts6185]

The irony is the Tolkien Estate made untold millions because Jackson stayed true to JRR. People young and old loved Jackson’s versions and were inspired to buy the book again. Millions upon millions of new book sales. Talk about poisoning your own well…!

[@dragonchr15]

What makes you think this show won't do the same? The fans still win in the end because more books will be sold and more people will come to Tolkien spaces to discuss them.... Don't blindly buy into the artificial hate being peddled by monetized YT channels that need people to be pissed off all the time....

[@mirceazaharia2094]

@@dragonchr15 The show is an indirect win for the fandom. Amazon has zero merit. They incompetently and maliciously produced an outright bad show that wiped its a$$ on the LotR canon and its core values. We have nothing to thank Amazon for in this instance, and every reason to detest them for it.

[@mirceazaharia2094]

I actually discovered Tolkien thanks to the Peter Jackson movies. Soon after the first movie, I bought the trilogy and read them voraciously. In high-school, I discovered The Hobbit, and it became my favorite Tolkien work. The movies made me a fan.

[@sigmacademy]

@@dragonchr15 "Don't blindly buy into the artificial hate being peddled by monetized YT channels that need people to be pissed off all the time" You mean the channels that bitch and moan about "white supremacy" all the time?

[@dragonchr15]

@@sigmacademy I don't k ow what you are talking about as I don't watch those channels.... I do watch review channels that do little reviewing and more complaining about why there is to much "woke Ness" in everything. Is that a topic that interests you? White supremacy I mean.

[@M0rmagil]

I don’t know if anyone remembers, but Iron Crown Enterprises used to make some really good non canon additions to Arda that didn’t conflict with the source material. Not just in events, but in spirit.

[@doomsdaybooty1072]

What's that?

[@trob1173]

I still have the ICE source book for the 'Angmar' campaign. Excellent backstory for the Witch king and fully fleshed out characters that totally fit in with and didn't conflict with canon.

[@M0rmagil]

@@trob1173 I wonder who owns all the IP work that ICE did back in the day?

[@stephendavis6606]

Can you buy it anywhere?

[@ruben3305]

Don’t piss off the fans by taking a beloved and original story and changing it to fit the world we live in today.

[@JurgenErhard]

And it's not even the world we live in, it's the world they wish we lived in *and* the world they think we live it.

[@joeterzio7175]

Nice talking points. You've probably never even read a Tolkien book.

[@emhu2594]

They should have stopped after the horrible hobbit movies

[@ChrisMisMYhandle]

It's the world privileged Holywood fart-sniffers live in

[@cobbler9113]

Because everyone who reads/watches anything to do with Tolkien wants to be reminded of the real world when consuming it 😄

[@Stellarcrete]

Please Please Please have George on more! I love that guy and I love how he has been out front in defending The Professor. More Rings of Power discussion and more Georg!! :)

[@Jonathan331]

Just got done finally watching the Arcane bts on yt. Being new showrunners isn't an excuse anymore for RoP showrunners, and Amazon, as Riot and the Arcane showrunners are new to producing tv shows as well. Amazon is evedently after a paycheck while Riot took a gamble, trustng Christian woth Arcane. They took their time, polished it and scrapped bad ideas, no matter how far along in the process they were. That tells me that profit is secondary to them, and quality is what they strived for. Fortiche and Christian have such a vision for the show and story, you can tell they put a lot of themselves on the show.

[@jeffhreid]

Drinker made an excellent comment about house of the dragon. I was pissed and checked out at the end of GOT had NO interest in watching house of dragon but, heard good things by Gary in particular and gave it a chance. The writing is quite good especially the dialogue. The costumes are also quite good. I’m two episodes in and like it so far

[@Real_MisterSir]

It's never about not being able to step out of someone else's shadow. It's about not being capable enough to become one's own source of light.

[@oldhatAN]

I have no confidence at all that they will be able to get themselves out of the hole they have dug for themselves. If they knew what they were doing, they wouldn't have dug themselves this deep in a hole to begin with. If they were capable of fixing this, they wouldn't have fucked it up to begin with.

[@jasonpratt5126]

Is Simon also the reason why the Tolkien estate noped out on allowing Rings of Powder to use anything other than rights already provided to the movies (i.e. LotR, Hobbit, and the appendices)? Because if so: GOOD FOR HIM! Or a blessing on whomever put the breaks on that. Imagine if they had gotten their hands on actual 1st and 2nd Age material.

[@WillDreamer]

After bingeing most of your vids in about a week, I came to genuinely respect your passion for storytelling and knowledge of how it should be done. I agree with your emphasis on well-written, believable characters that you can enjoy going on a journey with. And the deepest, most fundamental aspects of your criticism have inspired me to finally do something. Something I knew I wasn’t ready for when I first imagined it. For the last 20 years, I have written roughly 1 million words for friends and family, with the simple purpose of earning adequate skill at storytelling. I honed my writing, and even ultimately benefited from deep, painful personal struggles, so that I could finally tell a specific short story. It complements and builds up one of your favorite films. And, incidentally, it also showcases many examples of genuine masculinity displayed in a variety of ways. Further, I feel it sets a very high bar for what respectful, quality “fanfiction” should strive to be. Upholding a beloved work. Understanding it, valuing it, and forgiving any supposed flaws. Contributing a modest addition to someone else’s great legacy. Underscoring and deepening the arc of an already beloved character. Teaching the same positive lessons with the same noble themes, in a slightly different way. Honoring the work, the creator of that work, and all those who have come to love it for what it is. I strove to keep it focused, purposeful, limiting it to just 24,000 words. It may not be perfect, but it certainly tries to be. I hope you will consider giving it a read. Based on what you’ve shown everyone of your true self (behind your hilarious outward persona), I believe you will approve of these efforts. You may be uplifted and proud for having put forth the time to read it. And you will then enjoy going back to watch your favorite trilogy yet again, perhaps getting even more out of the experience. The tale is humbly posted, amidst countless others, on fanfiction.net, under the title “The Children of Rohan,” by WillDreamer.

[@aquapendulum]

About the Tolkien Estate: Apparently the existing licensing money was really not enough, because Saul Zaentz got a sweetheart deal on the main book license back in the latter-half of 20th century. This was when Lord of the Rings was still a nerdy book series with a cult following while its imitators like Warhammer, Dungeons & Dragons and Warcraft have all found the shortcut to mainstream 20th-century success. You got to understand that the mainstream popularity of Lord of the Rings was an uniquely 21st-century phenomenom.

[@GeraltofRivia22]

No, it wasn't. Tolkien's work has always been extremely popular, not as mainstream as after the movies, but certainly not just restricted to nerds. You don't get a film trilogy like the Lord of the Rings unless the IP is already extremely popular. Not to mention there were already several animated adaptations in the 70s and 80s that inspired Peter Jackson's version.

[@filipvadas7602]

Not really. Tolkien's work was always popular and highly regarded. It didn't reach into the mainstream the same way mainly because nobody believed it ever *could* be adapted

[@exhaustguy]

Reminds me of how Robert E. Howard's father gave the literary rights to his works to a family friend and fellow doctor on his death (actually it was his entire estate). Eventually the estate went to the wife and daughter of the doctor who then formed a company with joint ownership of the intellectual property with L. Sprague de Camp - the editor of the 1960s Conan books which popularized the character to a wider audience. Along the way there was a missing will that supposedly said the person who should have gotten the rights (a friend of Howards who gave him the suicide gun).

[@Laneous14]

I don't know about that. Even people that aren't big readers heard of an sometimes even read The Lord of the Rings back in the day. It was a huge cultural thing back then just like plenty of barely-readers women got hooked into Twilight or Fifty Shades, it had cultural inertia. Lord of the Rings was a HUGE cultural moment in the 60s and 70s.

[@GeraltofRivia22]

@@Laneous14 exactly, the franchise sold hundreds of millions of copies long before the movies came out.

[@realhorrorshow8547]

So, Simon was tired of living in the shadow of his grandfather? Here's a plan: Don't get into his shadow if you don't have his talent. Do something you're good at. He spent fifteen years as a criminal lawyer, became a barrister. Starts writing fiction at 41 - not fantasy, detective fiction and historical. Then - boom - a consultant on _Rings of Power_ at 63. His very first job in fantasy or TV from what I can see.

[@Lonovavir]

ROP "Creators": Tolkien fans suck, they're every bad thing in existence. *Tolkien Fans…….. and everyone else ignores ROP, it fails* ROP “Creators”: *Surprised Pikachu face*

[@TheIndianaGeoff]

When will Hollywood learn. Nerds love something. Finally, movies make a good story on what they love. Nerds go see it in droves and encourage others to go. It becomes a huge hit and the non nerds actually enjoyed it. Studios create something nothing like what the nerds love. Nerds go, (because they must), but tell the non nerds it's not that good. The non nerds don't show up, it does ok or flops. Studios wonder why it doesn't work. Here is the secret, it works with all types of movies. My wife loves a good rom com. I go see them with her, but most of them suck bad. Occasionally, there is a really good one (example Crazy Rich Asians), and I tell other non rom com goers that it's good and they should see it. Lesson for studios, make good Rom Coms and they will be hits. Make good children movies and it will be a hit. Make good action movies and it will be a hit. Make a good horror movies and it will be a hit. Make a good and it will be a hit. What not to do is take a Rom Com and turn it in to a horror film and then wonder why it's not a hit.

[@booshmcfadden7638]

You don't strictly adhere to the gov't narrative and agenda we're forcing upon people while censoring and slandering them Why are you a fascist!?

[@booshmcfadden7638]

@@TheIndianaGeoff Because they don't love anything. They are hate-filled narcissists.

[@phluphie]

But Drinker, Kathleen musta been fantastic at getting coffee for George and Steve. Bet she could still do that pretty well.

[@manuelsalgado9457]

Thanks to all of you, especially the Drinker and Gary I totally skipped Rings of Power and actually gave a shot to House of the Dragon

[@steveouk90126]

Ayn Rand, on the value of worthwhile heirs: "Only the man who does not need it, is fit to inherit wealth-the man who would make his own fortune no matter where he started. If an heir is equal to his money, it serves him; if not, it destroys him. But you look on and you cry that money corrupted him. Did it? Or did he corrupt his money? Do not envy a worthless heir; his wealth is not yours and you would have done no better with it. Do not think that it should have been distributed among you; loading the world with fifty parasites instead of one, would not bring back the dead virtue which was the fortune. Money is a living power that dies without its root. Money will not serve the mind that cannot match it."

[@mirceazaharia2094]

Now I understand why people subscribe to people who do not upload any videos. Because they post great comments like this. Gonna have to look up more writing by Ayn Rand. Thanks for the great quote and recommendation.

[@rebeccaroanoak5375]

Ayn rand really? 🤮

[@philipdawes2661]

Trust fund families - problem is that the family gets larger with every generation, leading to less and less available to each member, ultimately leading to not enough to be a trust fund child, even if wisely managed. I know of one family whose Victorian industrialist founder who have just reached the generation where the descendants actually have to start going back out to work for a living as the fund is not enough to keep them from needing to work.

[@dragonchr15]

I used to envy the children of wealthy parents, but then I think what life would be like if I did not have to earn anything and it was all provided to me....

[@doomsdaybooty1072]

@@dragonchr15 it's a curse disguised as a blessing

[@alexandru5369]

Yeah blaming potential paying customers for your incompetence is the definition of hubris and delusion

[@johncy2462]

The way George The Giant Slayer is positioned over the background illustration, it looks like he's at the bar holding up that glass of whiskey.

[@thomad4]

Amazons's Rings of Power need to take a page from Paramount...the backlash and criticism from the original Sonic design was so profound, the studio listened. They admitted the error and course corrected, because of that the movie was hugely successful AND they have more movies with Sonic because of it

[@thomad4]

Thats what happens when you LISTEN TO YOUR AUDIENCE! We reward you with support and money...ignore us and we will ignore you too. Difference is we don't NEED these shows, we have the original source material. Studios NEED US to watch to make money.

[@white0thunderwhite0thunder71]

House of the Dragon proves that there are things that can be forgiven... And Rings of Power proves that there are things that must NEVER be forgiven.

[@mvtv-montanavigilantetv5976]

"Okay, okay ... my bad. My inspiration to try heart surgery was ill-advised but got the job, didn't I? I pledge to follow canon ... er, all those manuals much closer and adhere to established medical science. Best I can, of course. I'm no damn DOCTOR, for crissakes!"

[@NZobservatory]

If _Damon Lindelof_ is still working is it really a shock that all these other hacks have shows too?

[@lillithsummers8817]

Super excited to see you had George on, totally stand up guy with a great understanding of Tolkien lore.

[@drofwarcnwahs2108]

There are a variety of issues that underline the failures in media, tech startups and other organizations. Primarily the problem lies with financial management having too much control. Much more than they would have 30 years ago. Some of this is due to the explosion of MBAs out there but mostly due to the advent of screwed up bonus programs that drive the financial folks to do anything that would ensure their bonus fulfilment. I have interacted with many CFOs over the past 20 years and have seen the progression of the soullessness in that particular skillset. They will do anything to make bonus regardless of the impact on customers or their company. They plan to move to another company in 3 years so who cares? Right? So they drive to the safest path to their bonus which is to reuse IP or don't buy the full IP and then implement it using the lowest cost actors, writers and directors etc. The whole Woke thing is unrelated and driven mostly by branding and HR.

[@mikecanul]

Brilliant assessment by this Championship level panel!

[@joeterzio7175]

The five white men, you mean?

[@nickmanzo8459]

Simon Tolkien is what Saruman shouted: “You are a lesser son of greater sires!”

[@hypersleepdialogues8889]

I love George. He has such a profound love for Tolkien. Glad to see him here with you guys.

[@nikopawlowic6557]

I'm surprised that you Mr. Drinker don't try to reach out and fix this show, I'd love to see what a massive show could be like if written by a capable writer like you. Also I can't wait to see your movie! Best!

[@joeterzio7175]

"Capable writer" like Drinker? LMAO. Have you actually read any portion of his books? He's a hack.

[@sigmacademy]

The show would NEVER bring one of its critics in to fix the issues it has. It would rather double down on its mistakes and let the series die (other examples clearly show this is the standard pattern).

[@nikopawlowic6557]

@@sigmacademy eh can't blame me for hoping

[@josepnebotrius872]

I'm sure the Drinker fixes things is better demolishing it completely before trying to fixing it.

[@gamerboy6787]

2:43 THANK YOU. The Tolkien family definitely deserves their share of the blame! From what I've been told, the Tolkien family must approve something before production can begin. The family either directly caused -- or at least, allowed -- this disaster of a show to happen. RoP has been the most entertaining show that I never watched. Similar to how Fallout 76* was the most entertaining game I never played. In both cases, it's almost like, I dunno, staring at the mangled aftermath of a car crash on the highway. Of course you wince at the tragedy of the situation, but at the same time your morbid curiosity keeps you looking at it. *Yes, I've heard that Fallout 76 has improved by leaps and bounds. I hear it's actually a GOOD game now, by most metrics. Before anyone comes at me in the replies.

[@mirceazaharia2094]

Fallout 76 has IMPROVED? Remarkable. Perhaps Bethesda CAN learn from their mistakes.

[@ColoradoStreaming]

I have had more insightful LOTR lore conversations since the show came out than at any time before. So if anything it brought true fans together. That and 'Gandalf Roasts Rings of Power' is the greatest thing the internet has ever produced.

[@almVancouver]

So glad you are active, bro!

[@AS-fu1kd]

Rings of Power teaches how important practicing your craft is. Even a billion dollars can't disguise a team with no talent. Hard work pays off, and Peter Jackson proved it.

[@CurriedBat]

As soon as I put down the Silmarillion (after taking fucking years to read the fucking thing) I immediately wrote an outline for a trilogy for it. Because there were three perfectly described stories that intertwined the entire thing.

[@doomsdaybooty1072]

Beren and luthien, the fall of gondolin, and Turin?

[@CurriedBat]

@@doomsdaybooty1072 Well, basically... and that's why I was excited when I saw Amazon releasing the 3 books. I found the story of Hurin's legacy quite boring, but Eärendil's adventures would probably be the third. Or maybe a focus on the Dwarves, then the Elves, then the Hoomans would be kind of cool.

[@doomsdaybooty1072]

@@CurriedBat anything would be better than what we got

[@autom8it339]

I'm dying to know what Echo Chamberlain wanted to say through the whole video but kept getting cut off.

[@nunyabusiness1317]

Channels like this give me so much life

[@ruperterskin2117]

Right on. Thanks for sharing.

[@williamjpellas0314]

Interesting that the same pattern we see so often in America is evidently in play in the UK, as well. "Rags, to riches, to rags, in three generations". Lovely to hear about the spoiled rotten stupidity of at least some of Tolkien's grandchildren. His son, Christopher, did really well with his father's body of literature. After he died, not so much. Too bad.

[@EatWave]

Warren Buffett had the right idea. Disinherit anyone who does nothing to earn a piece of the family business. It would be preferable if Christopher Tolkien had released the series into public domain so that no one would have exclusive rights to the stories and any changes made could be ignored by the public until the next attempted adaptation comes along if he could not find an individual who respected his father's legacy to leave the rights to.

[@Unclejona]

I'm glad the Tolkien estate let Brian Sibley to release his new book. I know, it's nothing new, but really great read and lovely pictures, and a big finger to ROP :)

[@michaelcook2290]

Apathy about so many franchises. I am still keen to see Wheel of Time S2 because I love the books (flaws and all) but know like a hungry man at a bad restaurant I'll be both happy to have something and disappointed by what I get.

[@paulnathanmullock6214]

11:00 Cobra Kai is amazing. I think it's time for the drinker to do another review of it. In a time of heartless cash grabs and garbage new shows, Kai has been a diamond in the rough imo

[@MrJustinOtis]

Cobra Kai is formulaic, but it's always straight up entertaining.

[@JonathanSirico]

Amazon is Lucy, and they are hoping the fans, Charlie Brown, will make an attempt to kick the football again.

[@KapnRich]

Adapting a business analogy: The grandfather starts it The father builds it The son destroys it

[@andrewearnshaw6636]

It's about time KZbin added an "I despairingly concur" alternative to the like button.

[@Kraftfan]

Simon Tolkien's story looks like a villain origin.

[@vladibalan]

I'm almost afraid at this point to hope for a continuation of The Expanse. What if they screw it up like they did with ST Picard or RoP?

[@wavion2]

As long as they keep Shankar and Franck they will stay true to the source, and it will be great.

[@mirceazaharia2094]

@@wavion2 Here's hoping. Season 1 was great, by God.

[@sigmacademy]

Amazon movies have a weird track record - they can make GENUINE good entertainment next to TERRIBLE nonsense. I believe that is due to some production companies that are REALLY into just making decent entertainment, while others are just interested in making useful propaganda, no matter how bad it is. And I believe Amazon Studios are stuck in the middle - being forced by their own "Guidelines", activist minded employees and "Twitter activists" on making sure there's a pipeline for propaganda movies.

[@wavion2]

@@sigmacademy One thing you have to consider is that Amazon doesn't make everything in-house. Even things with the Amazon Studios branding are often partnered with other production companies. In the case of The Expanse, for example, the primary production company is Alcon Television (who is also the production company when it was with SyFy). Amazon's part was basically writing checks and saying, "Go make me something good." They had veto privileges and could give notes, but generally they let them do their thing. When you think of it like this, it makes perfect sense that Amazon's lineup is hit and miss. Shows that they are more directly involved in creating tend to be worse, much worse. Rings of Power, for example, it's listed as Amazon Studios and New Line Cinema, and I don't think New Line actually did anything. They're only connected because of the LotR rights and the films. I'm guessing they could have blocked it or fought them, but instead let Amazon make a LotR show in exchange for a production credit and a percentage of the revenue.

[@adamgroszkiewicz814]

As a lifelong Tolkien fan, someone whose father read them The Hobbit at age 5, someone who saw all the Peter Jackson films several times, owned multiple DVD sets, played Rolemaster ICE system tabletop, etc.....I have no desire to watch Rings of Power.

[@fr0ck360]

This is what happens when you keep fucking up your legacy/shows multiple times that people won’t even bother to give other good shows a chance like Andor. GOT is a good example of “Nah we’re not gonna fuck it up for the second time” mentality

[@luminyam6145]

What a great stream. I am so grateful to you guys. Thank you for the truth. 🥳💖🥳💖

[@oscarvi3232]

Brilliant assessment by the drinker. And unlimited shame on the Tolkien estate.

[@quiett6191]

for the past decade. the makers been going into studio offices like "Hello. We would like to make Lord of the Rings for TV, but worse" "No" "But....." "No, piss off" Finally, after years of rejection, one of em went "Huh, I have an idea" They both show up, with blue streaks in their hair, sipping on soy lattes "Hello comrades. Lord of the Rings. Black elves." Amazon "You're hired, heres a billion.

[@davidjepson9969]

Love listening to youtubers talk about talent

[@nhmooytis7058]

When heirs whine about living in the shadow of an ancestor who left them a ton of money I hope they go bust and have to work as hard as the guy whose fought they got handed.

[@nhmooytis7058]

It’s usually the third generation that goes to hell, the Rockefellers it was 4th.

[@CosmicBaller1]

This reminds me of that South Park episode where they call Netflix and Netflix admits they literally green light anything and everything.

[@kamion53]

McPayn and McKayn sound a bit like kids that did not pass to the next grade because failing every test in this year, but get pleaded by their parents to let them pass, because they say do better in the next year.

[@Rejoice1631]

Yes, it COULD be lost, BUT, fans, TRUE fans, are usually very forgiving. They will forgive quite a LOT, they just want their fav show back. It can happen, but it takes humility, and honesty, on behalf of the “show runners”. Not sure if these particular show runners are up to the challenge.

[@daveeyes]

They're definitely, positively not up to it.

[@MS-ys6vj]

I honestly think a lot of people, just like myself watched the 1st 2 episodes back to back because that's how they were released then turned off the tv in disgust. That's why they got a higher viewer rating for those 2 episodes, not because they were better than the rest, they are all garbage. it literally took me less than 40 seconds to start rolling my eyes and saying "what the hell" for 2 hours straight.

[@wd2989]

I agree with this … the want for a good show had a huge wave of momentum. Watching 2 episodes at one time was more about satisfying “want” and then double-checking “doubt” 1. Let me satisfy my want for a good show And then 2. Wait, can this really be this bad, let me give it one more try to see how it develops. I think very little momentum came from the crowd that said “Damn this is good, give me more.”

[@Rhapsohd]

This show turned Amazon from a trillion dollar company to a billion dollar company

[@benm-smith2820]

and another franchise bites the dust...

[@chasehedges6775]

And another one gone, another gone.

[@codinghusky5196]

About LotR, I understood everything watching Guardians of Galaxy 2. It explains these new directors despise the idea of being who you're meant to be. But that's what Tolkien is ABOUT: dropping your little person concerns and desires and BECOMING who you were meant to be. Think about it. Aragorn doesn't want to be a King, he wants to sit around Rivendell and jab cock into the broad, but he has to live up to being what he's meant to be - a King. Frodo just wants to eat and read - but he has to live up to who HE is meant to be. Gandalf is the happiest when smoking quietly in a warm corner but he has to get up and... See the pattern here? They can't stand a call to get off their assess and become worthwhile. This new generation just wants to be the easiest thing possible: nothing