Dropships & Drop Pods

The ability to get a strike force anywhere and fast is of vast strategic value, and the future may dropships landing anywhere on a planet within minutes.
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Credits:
Dropships & Drop Pods
Episode 405, July 27, 2023
Written, Produced & Narrated by:
Isaac Arthur
Editors:
David McFarlane
Konstantin Sokerin
Graphics:
Darth Biomech
Jeremy Jozwik
LegionTech Studios
Sergio Botero
Music Courtesy of:
Epidemic Sound epidemicsound.c...
Markus Junnikkala, "We Roam the Stars"
Stellardrone, "Red Giant", "Between the Rings"
Miguel Johnson, "Far From Home", "So Many Stars"

[@Cmdtheartist]

In Old Man's War by Scalzi, the troops are sealed in a ball of nanites that absorb the heat from re-entry and change shape to that of a glider and then finally fall apart into a cloud of dust just above ground. In fantasy, a wizard did it. In science fiction, it's nanites.

[@sysomphonemanuthong3953]

What is science faction? WD Hallmark % 26 so evil is on Saturday 🪐? It's how nice the poisons of ag and compression is on the Rollbot that is working in are Galaxy? Your the Seagreat. Keep your acounts end tell 2024& WD route 66 was old maps. Your ok with Jupiter files! AES is covering slots! And earth % is love you &CSC covers the slacking ends. Make a CD for 2024 with all your files for a device that plays it in a store investment for fewture children. Your saveing the children of pork wolds of WD cant stand that evil Creator! Y? We setting a reservation of date on earth also.

[@kidShibuya]

Still love that series though.

[@acadiano10]

Scalzi does some interesting things, and hits lots of great tropes well. I forgot about this part though!

[@Alphacheesehunter]

Gah! You have excellent taste!

[@EgoEroTergum]

At that point, why not just have the Nanites do the fighting, ala terminator 2?

[@tyree9055]

Isaac's premise that dropships / pods will be fired upon is correct, imo. But generally, paratroopers (even today) are delivered to areas that are minimally armed. They learned in WW2 that dropping them directly on armored formations wasn't conducive to operational success. I'd suspect the same principles would be used for dropships and droppods as for paratroopers. Orbital bombardment may be required to create that drop zone, but the principle remains, clear the area of enemy forces first. 🤣👍

[@cesaravegah3787]

Most probably....or extremly stealthy insertions of small teams but no, hard to imagine mass drops of troops on contested áreas, more so with the proliferation of anti-drone equipment and man portable AA, the dissaster suffered by the Russian special forces who tried the helicopter assault on Kiev airport seems like a warning about things to come.

[@dansmith1661]

@@cesaravegah3787 Can't forget the contributions of the Ghost of Kiev.

[@amateurcrastinator9523]

Not to argue, just offering a counterpoint. Orbital bombardment would very effectively announce your presence. If the mission you're undertaking needs to be covert, that wouldn't work.

[@cesaravegah3787]

@@amateurcrastinator9523 Orbital bombardment is barely under full nuclear warfare on the scalation aspect of the equation so I believe that not always would be a political or practical option even if temporal control of the requiered space battlefield is achieved, as you said, not to argue but I believe that covert insertions always would be part of warfare, you dont always need or want to hit the enemy with a hammer, sometimes Is way better an scalpel.

[@cesaravegah3787]

@@dansmith1661 That is propaganda, the mauling that the top russian commands transported by their most elite helicopter combat transports received on that battle is an historic fact, Putin bitches and trolls of course say something different, nobody sane cares.

[@gbladewarrior6884]

The anime Aldnoah Zero had the most awesome drop sequence using Landing Castles. Its a dropship the size of a skyscraper that impacts like a nuke and levels the entire area it lands on.

[@NullElemental]

Exactly what I was thinking of, the best way to do an orbital insertion is if the lander is an actual weapon itself

[@mikemarkwilka4135]

Okay so now I'm imagining the drop pods themselves dropping bombs -- clear the landing zone, create obstacles to block the defender's from gaining LOS on the pods, and you raise a huge cloud of dust that will give the pods concealment as they deploy parachutes, a vulnerable phase. For now, I think parachutes are still the likely choice over rockets. Less mass, smaller size, less complicated. Cutting down on landing time sounds nice, but so does bringing more troops, being a smaller target, having more armor on the pod, or having spare room for decoys and ECM. If you want to put actual fleshy people on the ground, they need to believe in a reasonable chance of survival, at least 80%. The same railgun you use for clearing the landing zone on the way down could be used as static (or even towed) artillery. Orbital to surface combat sounds like it could take trench warfare to a whole new subterranean dimension. You dig and then you dig some more! We'd be eating cockroaches in no time. Or manufacture some fancy invertible cities like in Neon Genesis Evangelion.

[@sentane8031]

I like the idea of the drop pods having no form of reentry control. They just sink through the atmosphere like rocks, having internal shock absorption so the humans inside don't become a paste on the floor or ceiling of the craft.

[@squashiejoshie200000]

Go watch the drop pod scene from Genocidal Organ

[@mikemarkwilka4135]

@@squashiejoshie200000 Yeah you weren't wrong, that was so damn cool. I'm pretty picky with my anime but that does peek my interest. Apparently that "smart" cluster bomb is a real weapon, although discontinued.

[@bshinn4884]

Halos ODST(Orbital Drop Shock Troops) used Single occupant Exoatmospheric Insertion Vehicles to quickly insert at or near the target. They were as implied single occupant reinforced pods. They "used the atmosphere to do most of the work slowing the pod down, as the ceramic armor would burn off revealing a crash cage, and closer to the ground with air brakes that had rockets on the ends of the 4 brakes, slowing the pods down before landing, but it was still more of a crash lol.

[@itorca]

Yeah odst reminded me of Tiberian sun opening mission but I would think that delivery option with multiple weapons platforms would be better more like sst or multiple individuals to use a multitude of combined arms but a solo recon trooper pod sounds expensive insertion .war is expensive cheap and simple is the best

[@bshinn4884]

@itorca835 Would definitely be expensive. They were usually single use. They did have different types. Some that had larger pack outs, a type that could be launched from slipstream even? Always thought it would be realistic for a low type two civilization as they wouldn't be all too difficult to manufacture vs. some of the other more technologically advanced methods explained in video. Quickly inserting soldiers behind enemy lines has always been and likely always will be a viable strategy in order to get behind and sabotage battle lines from the rear, or sabotage supply lines, power stations, rear support, communications, and other infrastructure. If they have to drop from orbit, of course using just a parchute isn't gonna cut it, so this would likely be amongst the first step in a long line of advancements in tactical Insertion from space. I do like the idea mentioned in another comment on nanobots thar configure from a protective shielding(wonder if a layer would be ablative or if the nanites would be strong enough to survive the friction) and turn into a glider shape as they get into the lower atmosphere. I imagine it wouldn't be a "one-time" use, and could even turn into shielding or weaponry, or surveillance equipment or something else on the ground?

[@itorca]

@@bshinn4884 I would think from a combat engineer a instant forward outpost or base would be a marvel sure less of a shootem up. but the power play is immense if you could just drop a fob that would be a well shot what do we do about that situation. on a chaotic everchanging battlefield it's who's making moves and who's reacting to chaos. But to just drop one guy isnt the same effect

[@itorca]

@@bshinn4884 I was talking to a buddy he was saying a pod could deploy team under the planetary surface and use the pod to make a underground fob to send strikes from.

[@casematecardinal]

@@bshinn4884 single use is the best way to go about it. Save a lot of time and energy by having smaller, lighter, far cheaper to produce, disposable units. The fact that they can be mass produced so easily and be discarded also allows for stuff like magazine fed insertion devices meaning you put a whole platoon in atmosphere in seconds while maintaining the capability to do it again and again.

[@vipondiu]

Snacks? Ready! Drinks? Ready! Notification platoon; jump in! Go, go, go!!!

[@dingo4530]

This is my snack There are many like it, but this one is mine

[@SpecialEDy]

The first rule of warfare: to be well stocked on snacks and drinks!

[@patrickkenyon2326]

On the bounce! Do you wanna live forever, apes?

[@jamesamos6565]

Light is green! Don't stand in hatch!

[@danielbont2331]

Motherships are used in real world applications. They are used for the deployment of submersibles such as those that visit shipwrecks. German U-boats of ww2 used bigger U-boats they called “milk cows”. Somali pirates used larger fishing boats as motherships. The lunar landers of the space race used the command modules as motherships. Aircraft carriers, exist. The list could go on but I need to make breakfast. To quote the Wikipedia page on motherships “A mother ship, mothership or mother-ship is a large vehicle that leads, serves, or carries other smaller vehicles. A mother ship may be a maritime ship, aircraft, or spacecraft.”

[@krisbarr5663]

I am a mothership. I deploy my fleet each morning.

[@tommycooker3996]

But this video is discussing drop ships….

[@genkibob]

The drop ship equivalents would be Hueys, Chinooks, Black Hawks, and Ospreys. WWII had the drop pods in the form of Higgins boats and Waco and Horsa gliders.

[@wils315]

Glad somebody corrected this, so close to the start of the video hearing it is not a commonly used term bugged me. Working in a maritime industry it is frequently used along with the term daughter craft.

[@jamesharding3459]

@@wils315 I have never heard it used in a military context, but it's a valid term, I suppose.

[@calebfielding6352]

makes me want to play "Civiliation call to power" as drop ships is one of the late game strats. best civ game as far as I am concerned.

[@Deridus]

20 years later, I still hear "Find the enemy!"

[@rastan49]

We’re in the pipe, five by five.

[@mahatmarandy5977]

Regarding planets not being defenseless, I just remembered Robotech/Macross, when the Zentradi had four million ships, and earth was able to take out about a quarter of them just using one really really big cannon in Alaska

[@douglasrood2650]

The grand cannon and in the lore there were 7 of them planned (one on each continent), the rogue zentradei during the malcontent uprisings lived in the barrel of the unfinished Brazil grand cannon.

[@mahatmarandy5977]

@@douglasrood2650 i did not know that! Is that Macross lore as well, or Robotech only?

[@douglasrood2650]

@@mahatmarandy5977 There was a huge series of novels written by Jack McKinney back in the day (they are trying to get them republished) but the novels covered all of the history that did not appear in the cartoons, it covered the comics (published and unpublished), the cartoons and all the story filler that appeared in the Palladium Books RPGs as well. If you can find a copy of the novels they are worth the read if you are a Robotech fan and it is the original story before the Shadow Chronicles re-write.

[@kovi567]

1:18 Actually, mothership IS a term used in hungarian military jargon to refer to carriers. It stems from the old hydroplane tender's name, that was called "repülőgép-anyahajó", or airplane-mothership.

[@robomonkey1018]

Ah Hungary everyone's favorite landlocked naval power.

[@pougetguillaume4632]

@@robomonkey1018 the swiss and bolivian fleet want to have a word with you

[@kovi567]

@@robomonkey1018 *Horthy Miklós will remember that.

[@lancerhalsey4816]

That's pretty much how it's called in Chinese too. It's called "aviation(aircraft) mothership".

[@matthiuskoenig3378]

@robomonkey1018 the danube is pretty big mate. That's where the Hungarian 'navy' operates

[@angus987]

“Roger. Arthur is in the pipeline, five by five…”

[@17091ira0072]

i did always think an orbital ring with drop ships of some kind was a perfect rapid reaction solution for earth, not just military but also for emergency response.

[@mastercharlesdiltardino8058]

Good for pizza delivery

[@petergerdes1094]

Sure it's cool, but isn't it pretty much strictly better just to scatter forces around the planet and give them starship style point to point transit. Either the ring is moving at orbital velocities which means you have to pay a pretty high fuel cost to get your dropships up there only to burn it off again or you've built one of those fancy active structures which seems as likely to be the cause of the disaster -- and in any case it seems cheaper just to have a bunch of forces on the ground.

[@labrat810]

@@mastercharlesdiltardino8058Q: How do you know you live in a post-scarcity society? A: Orbital Pizza Delivery

[@Theaverageazn247]

@@mastercharlesdiltardino8058 amazon prime now!!!

[@a.N.....]

Not economical, are you're soldiers just gonna live in space until there is an emergency?

[@mill2712]

I like to call this "Orbital Bombardment by personnel".

[@SkyFly19853]

I was not expecting discussions on dropships... Interesting... 🤔

[@Born-Bitter]

I just finished my 2nd cup of coffee so I’ll be deploying some drop pods in about 15 minutes.

[@hardmcshaft7931]

Hahaha well done sir. Beware the splash back

[@Born-Bitter]

@@hardmcshaft7931 Divert all power to the REAR deflectors

[@PerfectAlibi1]

Drop ships/pods are basically the futuristic version of paratroopers. ^^

[@PerfectAlibi1]

@@benjigeez Well it's more air/spacecraft to land, so paratrooper. XD

[@RCAvhstape]

Heinlein modeled his Mobile Infantry on both US Marines and US Army Airborne.

[@dansmith1661]

@@RCAvhstape They are wearing high heels and dresses like a rainbow brigade?

[@RCAvhstape]

@@dansmith1661 ???

[@PersonalityMalfunction]

Surely it's Air Cav???

[@Kneedragon1962]

Starship Troopers ~ the original book from about 1965 ~ not the crappy movie. Powered armour ~ Think Iron Man. You drop in a pod, which is like a Russian Doll, like an onion. Layers are semi-ablative, and they're made to become radar chaff. By the time you get down to 5,ooo ft your speed has dropped to terminal, which is about 140 mph. Your jump jets can slow you from that with no problem.

[@pougetguillaume4632]

Crappy movie? Sorry but the movie is a classic at this point, one of the best sci fi movie ever made in fact

[@isuckatusernames4297]

the movie was a pretty cool parody.

[@icecold9511]

​@@pougetguillaume4632 You might be in the minority on that one, especially given the competition of far better movies. But the book is way better.

[@ZebraActual]

You should read Contact Front by Rick Partlow (Drop Trooper series) and/or the book Recruit by Brazee. The movie Starship Trooper is a poor pale shadow of the excellence of the book.

[@SilverMKI]

​@@icecold9511I wouldn't go quite so far but it is a damn good movie, enjoyable to watch while still putting across the message. Even now the effects still hold up well.

[@DrProfessorRobot]

See, I always thought that the thing that defines a Mothership is, it doesn't just *carry* strike craft. It has fabrication facilities onboard to *make* them. It's essentially a mobile base and factory with rapid deployment capabilities. Maybe with mining/refining and hydroponics capabilities to make it its own fully independent logistics hub.

[@Joshua_N-A]

Will 3D printers be a future addition to aircraft carriers? I can imagine the maintenance guys printing necessary parts for each aircraft.

[@darrenbee4955]

I don't know if you read your comments, but just wondered if you read much sci-fi? There's a series by Jack Campbell that covers some orbital warfare with landing craft, etc. It's not entirely relevant but thought I'd mention it. It's called the lost fleet. Thanks for another vid.

[@elizabethdavis1696]

I want to hear Isaac opinion on yesterdays UAP hearing like if you agree

[@GreatGreenGoo]

Im surprised you didnt use this episode to use the "Number 1 rule of warfare" joke. I love that one.

[@UrdnotChuckles]

I know Battletech is the first thing that comes to mind for me when I see Dropships! As for drop pods, I rather like how they were handled in Starship Troopers. The book, not the movie.

[@TheTrueAdept]

Funnily enough, there is an _ANIME_ of SST (based on the book) that is the closest to the book here on youtube, an old Laserdisk OVA... ... but Battletech does it best: Dropships are heavily armed and armored and can take on _multiple assault lances_ and still win. Each one is a mobile strongpoint, and most of the time, you don't fight them, you just stay as far away from them as possible.

[@UrdnotChuckles]

@@TheTrueAdept Yup, a dropship is dangerous as heck! As for Starship Troopers, wasn't that the Roughnecks cartoon / anime?

[@TheTrueAdept]

@@UrdnotChuckles nope, there was a legit OVA of Book SST back in the '80s on Laserdisk. If you watched Halo Legends' _Prototype_ segment, then you've seen the (modernized and Halo-ized) version of the Anime Marauder suit from that laserdisk anime.

[@UrdnotChuckles]

@@TheTrueAdept Sweet, I'll need to do a bit of a media dive then. :) Cheers.

[@Scriptedviolince]

@@TheTrueAdept Unless it's a mule. Or a danais. Or a mammoth. Aquaducts. Behemoths. In battletech is actually somewhat interesting in that it has a very clear definition of what entails a dropship. "The dropship drops from a jumpship" anything that doesn't is a jumpship, a smallcraft, a station, a monitor, or a fighter.

[@Nostripe361]

Love that you talk about planets able to strike back at ships in orbit. having fun one day, I was designing ways a planet could fight back and while missiles and giant guns with fighter bombers are good, I had the idea you could also add some sort of tractor beams or similar trek. Imaging having your ship in orbit grabbed by this system and then yanked back to the surface in a crash landing; perhaps even dropped in pit surrounded by heavy weapons that can immediately just start pounding your crashed ship.

[@altha-rf1et]

This reminds me of that guy a few years ago that did that high altitude jump

[@harbl99]

TFW your drinks company has a better space program than your nation.

[@bobwalsh3751]

3:49 "You're pretty predictable in general course." i.e. downwards.

[@michaelbeacon123]

My comic series uses drop ships to get the soldiers through atmospheric entry, then they open the doors and the soldiers (many of which have natural wings, the rest use jetpacks) act as paratroopers and make their way to the ground. The dropships launch from what I just realized classifies as a mothership, but I call a Galleon. The ship is built around an O'Neil cylinder, and houses cannons that can fire "rods from God" projectiles the size of a minivan. The Galleon is the only ship in the fleet capable of FTL (I know the idea of such a massive ship being capable of FTL is weird, but I've got to fudge the rules somewhere) so all other ships either store in the hangars or dock solidly to the side. The Galleon can dock 8 frigates and hold thousands of fighters, bombers, and dropships. The drop ships can provide air support but can also be fitted with special modules to land tanks, or be used as a temporary bunk for ground troops.

[@ZebraActual]

I just got done reading a series called Drop Trooper by Rick Partlow.. excellent books. First book is called Contact Front. I of course loved the classic book Starship Trooper (and despise the movies) Recruit by Brazee is also a good book & 1st book of a series.

[@tarektechmarine8209]

I loved the movies, the director was so wrong that even in his attempt to make a satire all he did was make the movie more enjoyable. Anybody with a brain could see the propaganda wasn't really that false, it was all true. I can't speak for the later movies though.

[@pougetguillaume4632]

What is this comment section? A 2000 lotr discussion circle? Noooo the movies sucked ruined the book!!! I'm very familiar with manga/anime too and i can safely book/manga purists are the worst. Literally cannot fathom the idea that X can be good because it isn't the same thing. Might as well screen the book page by page then they'll be happy. The movie isn't a good adaptation but an amazing spin off/stand alone

[@spaceman081447]

I am surprised that Isaac Arthur didn't mention the Mobile Infantry of THE BOOK Starship Troopers.

[@dansmith1661]

@@tarektechmarine8209 All he had to do was make a good movie with the usual patriotism and fighting foreigners. It doesn't resonate with today's crowd because the military is rainbow warriors and endless oppression of other countries through establishing Democracy.

[@thiagom8478]

It is a bit cheap reference, because it's obvious, but the reference in my mind for arguments in favour of infantry in high-tech settings is always Starship Troopers from Robert A Heinlein. My favourite scene of soldiers dropping from orbit is in that book as well. Circumstances may appear where "destroy everything" is the best strategy, but I suppose there is more general application for the old mote that states "to the victorious go the spoils". Most armies will probably continue wanting to spoils (in land, infrastructure, slaves, and what have you) to pay the cost of fuel to get the explosives and/or soldiers in place. As long as that remains true, armies will not abandon the use of infantry (I suppose). Alternatively they could send some mind-hacking wave and brainwash all enemies into vassals, or soldiers, for your cause. That would make infantry obsolete, possibly. Explosives will not. Fall from orbit is a nice image, and I imagine the ideal tech for that would be change the body of people. Allowing any random citizen that cool experience of falling from space completely naked, walking from the center of a hot crater, and getting arrested for being naked in the middle of a urban area. No Drop Pod will give you that.

[@WolmanLykos]

I also love Heinlein's work interesting to think that in an age where humans can "Hot Drop" from orbit fully nude they would be arrested for that rather then the crater they created lol

[@thiagom8478]

Well,@@WolmanLykos , I assume the ground in urban areas will be self-repairing with nano-technology fast enough for no one take notice of things like that. Long before men start 'raining' from orbit.

[@WolmanLykos]

@@thiagom8478 Sure, a more modern analogy is while its easy to mend fences people still consider it a crime : 3 Although ODST nudists seem impossible biological augmentation may be more practical going forward then Cybernetics. We don't really know what the limits of either technology are

[@thiagom8478]

Sounds reasonable to me,@@WolmanLykos . You are probably right. On the other hand, there is always that argument someone used in I can't remember which book, about what would have happened if Queen Victoria of England had decided to set as priority for her nation the creation of a machine able to transmit sound and image through large distances in real time. The thing (basically Television) was imaginable, even long before that time, but the basic fields responsible for produce the knowledge we Historically used to reach the point where we can build that stuff didn't exactly existed at the time. Possibly there are other ways to reach the same solution, but we do not know them. What we can say, with relative certainty, is that the most powerful and rich nation in that time would have failed the goal. The knowledge they had didn't included tools to make televisions. Perhaps there is ways to make ODST nudists (so we can arrest them, on arrival) and we just didn't developed the fields of science that will provide us the basic knowledge to develop the technology that will give us those nudists. But, probably not.

[@WolmanLykos]

@@thiagom8478 Oh fun I had never heard of that argument with the British empire I might borrow that. We may be able to make a human to survive the impact but I can't think of any organic material that can resist that kind of heat. From what I recall re-entry heat shielding is mostly ceramics with some metals? Our current limitations are less can we manufacture that and more do those materials exist and if not can we make an alloy/composite/synthetic version to the desired specifications. And in the case ODST nudists can it be not only organic but a part of a human body. It would need to be flexible enough to allow a full range of motion [or more range then we have now!] breathable [humans breath through their skin as well]. Im now imagining what kind of caloric intake our "ODST's" would need and the logistics to go along with it : D

[@onieyoh9478]

As per using nukes as anti-aircraft, they did tests for it in the cold war and the radiation wasn't an issue for the people on the ground as the detonations we're at a high altitude. The radiation also wasn't a problem because they weren't salted bombs so the radiation was completely dissipated in minutes to hours. The idea was only dropped because ICBMs became a thing and the idea was for shooting down fleets of bombers.

[@Rogue_Tiger]

Bro, I looked for this video like a year ago. Thank you for making a video matching my search for drop ships.

[@FarmingUnclear]

Space elevator + orbital ring + drop ships= rapid deployment anywhere faster than most jets can scramble. Near instant reinforcement / rapid deployment. The battlefield becomes 2.5D as now you have to worry about the potential of being outflanked from above.

[@zakleclaire1858]

For a sci-fi story I'm writing I'm including drop-mechs which, if the online calculator I used was right, the operators would be under about 7 Gs of acceleration for about 7 minutes straight. I know there are some pilots who can handle 9, maybe even 10, Gs for impressive periods of time, but falling for 7 minutes under that kind of load is impressive. And 7 minutes is usually enough time to activate some AA defenses, especially if the target has fair warning. But it definitely isn't enough time to fully mobile to resist a mech assault.

[@punchkitten874]

The first part of "Starship Troopers" has a detailed description of how this might work.

[@howiefuzz6894]

Last time I was this early, I was gearing up for a drop in the Mobile Infantry.

[@thefolkbloke6656]

Just a little thing, you mention that mothership is not a term used in maritime but as a merchant marine officer I would partially disagree. In the maritime academy we learn to spot potential pirates or terrorist vessels by looking out for "mothership behaviour" in high risk zones, a single larger craft sending out smaller craft as we enter the area. It's just a way to help identify suspicious activity. Not sure if only my academy taught this or if it is a more widely accepted use. I also would not be surprised if the term originated from sci fi, but we do use it in an albeit niche way in the commercial maritime industry.

[@ericlondon2663]

"When the Tahsfoi invaded the Sol planetary system the humans didn't notice and Tahsfoi forces never returned. Upon research it was discovered that Sol was essentially a Dyson swarm with a population of hundreds of trillions. The sad invasion force was just considered to be an especially violent new criminal element. It was dealt with expediently, the event barely made the local human news."

[@pedromoura1446]

There's a really good movie called "Genocidal Organ" that starts with a really cool scene of this... The main military agency wanted to extract a VIP so they 1st launched a fragmentation bomb from a plane in low orbit to destroy all armored vehicles and enemy clusters in the landing zone. They then launched pods made of a material that dissolved after drop. In the movie the pods are made of bioengineered dolphin meat for grimdark reasons but it can really be almost any material foam you can imagine and i would rather consider a form of aerogel since it would be cheap, resilient to both heat and kinetic energy and made of very little actual material so dissolving it would be easy and leave pretty much zero trace of what it was before or who made it. Those same pods carried high caliber machine guns to ensure the dropped troops safety by further saturating the landing zone with lead before proping parachutes and then eliminated any remaining combatants after landing before melting and letting soldiers and machine gun drones out. While the drones patrolled the area, anihilating everything that moved and wasnt marked as ally to clear a path and sow chaos the soldiers went and secured the VIP. If you have several million dollars around waiting to be burned away or those troops have some very specific and valuable missions like long term guerrilla warfare, espionage or extraction of high profile people/mcguffins then this method would be more or less how i envision a soldier drop onto a planet. 1st- Bomb the sh*t out of some specific areas chosen for strategic or military importance; 2nd - Drop operatives there into pods made to guarantee their survival and leave minimum traces of them ever being there in the 1st place after landing; 3rd - Allow the soldiers to move into an adjacent area; 4th - Disguise their drop with more bombing or pods with expendable drones and a secondary legitimate objective; 5th - Wait for contact and profit;

[@briancox2721]

And remember, the Sargent has to yell, "Come on you apes! Do you want to live forever?!" right when you board the pod.

[@amateurcrastinator9523]

As an aspiring sci-fi author, i love these videos. They give me so much to think about.

[@rayceeya8659]

"Yes anti dropship batteries may be firing low yield nukes at you" Look up the USAF NIKE program. We already tested this. The first anti air missiles were nukes. You only had to be close.

[@BdogFinal14]

Something to consider, one topic you didn’t cover or I missed, is the use of electronic countermeasures, drones and decoys, with dropships /drop pods. The assault force commander would assume the enemy has effective anti-air or space defenses. To protect his landing force, he probably with use a combination of orbital strikes and massive ECM to protect his landers. Each lander could deploy it own decoys or the Mothership could Launch thousands.

[@TonyAnnechino]

@23:07 This is how the Necromongers did it in "The Chronicles of Riddick" (2004). Giant, building-sized spears, whose sides were lined with smaller drop ships and troop carriers.

[@StacheMan26]

I imagine the ideal size and type of insertion vehicle will also depend on the stage of the invasion. For the first waves you probably want lots of small drop pods, thoroughly mixed with decoys and munitions that share the real thing's radar signature, to oversaturate and/or deplete ground defenses. I also imagine that many apparent landing sites will be targeted by nothing but decoys and bombs, in attempts to draw enemy QRFs away from your actual soldiers, and that even if you do use organic infantry there will be quite a lot of autonomous weapons, be they drones, turrets, nanites, or more general robots, and mine dispensers scattered around outside the LZs proper to hinder enemy movement while your troops get to work. Once they have gotten up to their business of securing LZs, descent corridors, and generally causing chaos you start reinforcing them with your larger landers. Send platoon dropships screeching through holes in the AA net, or your brigade landers drop straight down above suppressed zones, or, further down the road, send transatmospheric shuttles far closer to civilian grade to captured starports. Whatever floats your star dreadnought.

[@muninrob]

Read Heinlein's "Starship Troopers" - what you describe sounds like Mobile Infantry doctrine followed by a full invasion force.

[@shorewall]

@@muninrob Yeah, Starship troopers is the first thing I thought of. So cool!

[@Scriptedviolince]

You'd also probably want the first wave hitting the atmosphere to be smaller ships less because of survivability but also because those big regiment landers and logistical ships are also very very big baskets with lots and lots of eggs in them. So for the first wave you put a few eggs in a many baskets as you can and throw them in all at once so that they enemy can't kill them all and you don't lose as much combat power per kill.

[@achillesa5894]

As you already touched upon I think there's definitely going to be cases where you want to land troops on the ground and can't just bombard it from orbit. Maybe the place is a factory both sides want intact, or you want to recover data, or you want to extract an important hostage, or it's a counteroffensive on an occupied part of your own city/space station. Sometimes you need a scalpel, not a hammer. I do think the scifi trope of landing troops to destroy the enemy is silly though. At the very least they should be supported with heavy orbital bombardments, and more often than not they should outright be replaced by them.

[@TerrisH20]

Larger Dropships would also make a lot of sense in later waves of deployment, After the initial waves have absorbed/removed/occupied a local area's defenses.

[@spaceman081447]

I am surprised (shocked, really!) that Isaac Arthur didn't mention the Mobile Infantry (MI) of Robert A. Heinlein's classic novel Starship Troopers. In the novel (forget about the train wreck of a movie), each trooper is enclosed in a "drop capsule" that is ejected from an orbiting troopship. The capsule enters the planet's atmosphere on a ballistic trajectory and slows down using aero-braking. For landing, the capsule breaks apart and the trooper's armored suit deploys a series of parachutes. The trooper's armor is totally sealed and self-contained, so that he can fight in a poisonous atmosphere or in vacuum. He's equipped with a full sensor suite including radar, sonar, lidar, sound, light, infrared, and ultraviolet. He has radio communication with his squad mates and his chain of command. His weapons include an assault rifle, light and heavy flamers for incendiary work, a grenade launcher, and a missile launcher with tactical nuclear weapons.

[@PersonalityMalfunction]

IA covered the relevant details without mentioning Heinlein, probably for copyright reasons. Another important role of the drop pod was the ablative armour peeling off in sheets, cluttering up the radar of ground based defenses. I thought that was a nice touch. Hammer's Slammers is another series of novels you can have a look at if you enjoyed Starship Troopers!

[@spaceman081447]

@@PersonalityMalfunction Yeah, the heat shield becoming chaff was a nice touch. I'm also familiar with the Hammer's Slammers books. That brings up a question. Who would win in a battle between the Mobile Infantry and Hammer's Slammers?

[@PersonalityMalfunction]

@@spaceman081447 Good question... leaning towards Hammer's Slammers due to tanks and artillery. The MI insertion method and lack of logistics train would give them a huge advantage in any army vs army scenario though.. damn, that's a really good question. Your thoughts?

[@spaceman081447]

@@PersonalityMalfunction The novel Starship Troopers doesn't say much about the MI's supporting forces. However, it does explicitly say that, "A single MI private could take out a squadron of those things [tanks] if anyone was silly enough to put tanks against MI." Also there is the implication that the Navy could bombard artillery positions and other targets from orbit. Concerning the MI's logistics train, the Navy's retrieval boats could be used to ferry down heavy weapons and other equipment from orbit. The extreme mobility of the MI plus their armored suits could be a problem for Hammer's Slammers. That's all I have for now.

[@michaelpettersson4919]

Janking up cargo/people from the ground has already been done. I saw a WW2 movie produced during or immediately after the war where the protagonists left a jungle area in a glider plane. A powered aircraft essentially just swooped down to catch the glider without actually landing.

[@SilverMKI]

They also had this for picking up spies/intel/etc rather than an entire glider.

[@TheVillainInGlasses]

The Fulton Recovery System is the same concept, I think.

[@FiNiTe_weeb]

21:00 we already have something like this, called the Fulton surface-to-air recovery system, or Skyhook lol

[@andrewyork3869]

One reason to send in infantry vs nuking to hell is its remarkably unlikely you would be at war with an entire planet.

[@Thrainite]

I always felt the Heinlein drop pods from Starship Troopers were fairly realistic. It's a disposable onion that, as it breaks through the atmosphere, it sheds layers that slow the pod down and act like chaff. Eventually opening up and dropping the trooper mid air. But their power armor has gyro-jets for slowing down further. Even with AI and modern targeting systems, the chaff off of 45 pods would probably blanket a good portion of the sky. Especially if it releases a lot of radio noise, junk, flares, what have you.

[@PGGraham]

I work for a company that has actually done work on developing these, as a troop insertion vehicle, an emergency evacuation system, and as a emergency bailout system for ISS or "Other vehicles".

[@rianmacdonald9454]

ODST's - Hell yeah give me a go at that - dropping in from orbit - fuck yeah.

[@ponyote]

Here again to say that the TTRPG Eclipse Phase is great at the concepts this episode covers. Always cool to see Battletech cited, regardless.

[@UpliftedCapybara]

It’s always a good day when Isaac uploads! I know I’ll have a lot to think about for the rest of the day about no matter what topic he discusses.

[@ImperatorSomnium]

boarding torpedoes and drop pods, full of terminator squads and dreadnoughts, this is how it's done!

[@triplebog]

Interesting ideas that you mention "beaming down energy from the mothership to the dropship to give the dropship energy/fuel to slow it down" cause I don't know if that would be possible. On a fundamental level, if you are blasting a dropship with X amount of energy, if it is absorbing that energy, then re-blasting it downwards to slow it down, or using it to power grab generators or something. Even accounting for 100% efficient engines and machines, it would still only be able to emit X energy downwards to slow it down, meaning that the net change in momentum would be Zero so the dropship couldn't slow down. Fascinating little loophole I think

[@stevenpilling5318]

I think that Heinlein remains as the highest authority on this!

[@FjrnVR]

Best at work distraction , after all thats the first rule of working,

[@stoerenungeheuer543]

Drop 'em Mechs!

[@murmenaattori6]

Standby for Titanfall

[@jonderr3908]

I think it is important to consider that not all weapons and tactics are designed for large scale warfare. Many weapons developed have minimal use in wartime and are instead relegated to internal security and law enforcement functions (eg. Tasers. CS gas munitions, submachine guns and pdws). I could definitely see dropship use for paramilitary or law enforcement tactical teams in the future. If a high value target is running an illegal crypto mine for organized crime on the 921st floor of an arcology, dropping a tungsten spike at relativistic velocities is not an ideal solution where delivering operators via a drop ship onto the roof of the structure is much more viable and reduces casualties.

[@SkylerLinux]

There's a happy medium between Space Marine with a drop-pack, and all eggs in one basket. Also Drop-ships can have Drop Pods, a best of both worlds.

[@lelandgrubson2736]

"Beam me up Scotty" - most well known captain in star trek

[@icecold9511]

Fun fact. That phrase was never actually used.

[@lelandgrubson2736]

@@icecold9511 wait what!!?? So it was just a meme!!!!!!!

[@hithere5553]

@@icecold9511Mandela effect

[@demizer1968]

Starship Troopers drop pods are always what I think of.

[@cakeonfrosting8105]

My counterpoint to the idea that planets ARENT defenseless is that while it is true that you can expect defensive installlations like rail guns to be on par or superior to those of the attacking fleet, those installations have a major weakness. It is the same weakness that most artillery pieces and bunkers today have. They are immobile. The planet may be moving, true, however it’s course is predictable. The course of a ship at the limits of its firing range may not be. This is one of the primary reasons there has been a shift towards self propelled artillery as it can fire, exposing its position, and then move before a counter strike reaches it.

[@MrKIMBO345]

The science fiction subject is remind me of special unit, Hell jumper, from UNSC in Halo game. Their situation is hellish against the enemy.

[@tarektechmarine8209]

Helldivers and Odsts.

[@ThoughtsAreReal]

If one defines drop ship / etc. as "from space", no, we don't have them yet (that we know of.) But troop carriers / landing craft / paratroopers / etc. are all "drop ships" in the general sense. We've had this concept since before we invented the term ninja or guerrilla. The dynamics are essentially the same. So I would advise anyone prone to dismissing this as Sci-Fi to read some history.

[@parawill7074]

Drop pods don't make much sense to land troops, unless it strictly to land assault troops as soon as possible. I would go with a dropship having troops freefall from around 140,000 ft in specialized spacesuits (more advanced than what we have today) with steerable parachute packs. I believe that drop pods would be easily tracked for targeting by air defense systems or to determine their landing zone to alert forces to that area. Dropping troops from near space makes more sense and you don't have to land ships if the goal is to land on the planet undetected. Also, there is a lot of planning that goes into insertions from the air, so they don't happen randomly. It is very much an opportunistic tactic if the conditions support it.

[@balestorm9136]

Thank you! Been eagerly anticipating this one. Between this and helldivers 2 I am getting lots of inspiration :)

[@katm9877]

The idea of armor doubling as FOOD is very interesting. Personally it made my brain go "bioships"!

[@greggweber9967]

17:47 And at that weight, you can have a reserve chute that might even be bigger than the first one since it opens up closer to the ground with less time to slow you down.

[@muninrob]

Since the air gets denser as you get deeper in the atmosphere, your "drag chutes" will be becoming more efficient as you descend. You don't have to make the chute bigger - you just have to make it strong enough to not shred when it opens.

[@KRAFTOMEEZY]

8:50 "Tis but a flesh wound"

[@SkylerLinux]

Speaking of beaming power to the Drop Pods, again depending on how much Power you have at your disposal. You don't really need to tightly beam the power down, esp as the beamed-power will muck with sensors. If you use the right wave length you can make it uncomfortable to very deadly or even heating/melting the metal outside when the drop-pods are falling.

[@digitalnomad9985]

IA: "An invader trying to attack an inner planet in a built-up planet might have to fight or negotiate through several layers of orbital nations." Spock:"He's intelligent, but inexperienced; pattern suggests two dimensional thinking." Most of the mass, and thus the material; the planets, moons, and asteroids to be colonized,; and the gravitational anchors like Lagrange points and orbits near resource and trade nodes will be on or near the ecliptic plane. Unless the system deliberately built a Dyson fort swarm. You just go around it. Planetary orbital defenses might be a thing. Or a fortress moon or two.

[@lordcirth]

In Deathworlders, the HEAT (spec ops) drop in from orbit (which they call a HELLNO jump) using portable force field projectors that form invisible glider wings.

[@vegaset4038]

A drop pod, we can do now. See powered landings with Crew Dragons from SpaceX. We can augment them for military. Also Spring Drop Crater Based drop pods are also good to use. Shocks and springs that remove the need for parachutes or rockets.

[@SteelWolf13]

Chuds. LOL i watched that movie when I was a kid and still remember what it stands for.

[@PersonalityMalfunction]

If some semi-talented author was to apply even half of these concepts in a military sci-phy novel my only words would be "shut up and take my money"! Great episode!

[@brunocesarcerqueira2525]

"Prepare for the jump, and don't buy a grave!"

[@hadesdogs4366]

It depends on which 40K drop pod you’re using such as the dreadclaw assault pod can carry up to about twenty marines vs the ten man pods usually used, also there’s dedicated vehicle pods such as the dreadnought drop pod which replaces the ten man squad with a single walker, armed with a heavy laser cannon, plasma cannon or an assault cannon and a powerful claw on the other arm with a heavy machine gun or flamethrower strapped underneath it, or the raven guards tarantula assault pod which replaces its internal cargo for a single automated heavy weapons platform, be it a multi missile launcher or a twin heavy bolter variant

[@jessegauthier6985]

Longest sentence I've ever (struggled) to read

[@sab1751]

Watched it on Nebula a few days back. Great episode again guys.

[@MartinBelcher]

Starship + ODST could be doable this decade, let alone by the end of the century. What a ride!

[@nelsonsmith4613]

I was gonna play something, but then I saw this in my notifications and couldn’t resist. Good work

[@xyreniaofcthrayn1195]

Generally speaking drop ships and drop pods are tactical insertion vehicles not general purpose troop and munitions transports not that they couldn't be used that way if and only if the vessel cannot withstand atmospheric pressures before imploding and in some cases pretzeling or is otherwise not intended to otherwise land on a planet.

[@KnightofGaming6721]

In a way, we can actually make drop pods the odst used with today’s technology. Won’t be as refined as in halo but I started thinking. Seats with magnetic capabilities (thought of the state fairs and that ride that spins the hell out of ya while you are stuck to it by a magnetic field), we also have auto lock and target assist technology to designate a landing site, add parachutes to minimize impact on ground hit, we could also add something space x uses for their rockets to safely return pieces back, then build a decent plane (a little bigger than a cargo plane) that can house these pods and be capable enough to shoot these pods at a certain height in our atmosphere (preferably a challenge on making it a little bit higher than our current stealth fighters). Only then do we have a 21st century drop pod. Edit: I thought of this idea when I saw the first mission of call of duty advance warfare and playing halo 3 odst in my life then smoked a lot of weed and started thinking.

[@thegloriousryius]

Actually, in Chinese, the term for aircraft carrier, "航空母舰", literally means flight mothership.

[@adrianaslund8605]

Ive heard it been debated that boarding actions would be more or less obsolete to an interstellar Empire. I guess it would be true of planetary invasions as well. You could just extort the planet. But to take direct control of the planets culture and resources I suppose It's viable.

[@kennethquinnies6023]

In the Bolo universe, the bolo tanks drop from orbit using their antigravity drive.

[@rafibausk7071]

Haven't we already dropped a man from nearly orbit already? I'm thinking of that guy who broke the sound barrier with his body.

[@craigmorris4083]

Ah, the most harrowing part of an invasion, those last couple hundred kilometers :)

[@apocalypsator6]

Super-chimps and the beginnings of cosmic horror. They said, "God has no sense of humor."

[@patrickmchargue7122]

Dropship of the future = 1 small tablet chock full of nanotech. Disassemble the enemy, and build your own troops in situ. (Also, 'Lithobraking' Heh)

[@theprofessor3339]

This is my favorite science fiction that I know will always remain fiction. By the time we have the material science and know how to do drop pods, we'll have already exploited the unique quantum properties of certain metamaterials to warp spacetime

[@FrakMunkie]

I love the way he says L's and R's.

[@antonybullock2240]

I absolutely love and adore these videos. However, I’m a little bit gutted that there is no footage of the actual dropship from aliens.

[@sarcasmo57]

This is how the drop bears arrived.

[@trolly4233]

i had an idea once where ground troops themselves could be large mass-driver launched probes that float on a set trajectory towards their target with little to no guidance, using some sort of (if its even possible) particle shield for atmospheric entry and of course defense from projectiles. once it lands it just unfolds, gets up on whatever it has to move (my idea involved tall, lanky legs to pull itself out of whatever crater it made while lithobraking, like the tripods from war of the worlds) and starts the invasion wherever it happened to land. Effectively giant robots launched by the dozen like how the aliens from Starship Troopers got to earth, minus the asteroid and unexplained speedy arrival.

[@vic028]

just some idle thoughts looking at the last few illustrations, psychological warfare. as like in war of the worlds and thinking back to the metal gear series, i believe there is also a significant demoralizing factor when towering robots are conducting an assault. i cant imagine being on a losing side fighting against towering robots the size of a small office building or larger. will drones eventually replace the "boots on ground" factor when it comes to future warfare? i think warfare in general will mostly remain the same, just the methods to achieve the same means would be different, just like old school plane delivered torpedos and the sea skimming missile systems of today.

[@TheRezro]

I must correct your definitions. Term Mothership was used in Military. Prior to WW1, with emergence of Torpedo Bats. There was attempt of caring them in dedicated transport ship, called Torpedo Boat Tender or Motherships. Like French Foudre. But concept died fast when they realised that it make more sense to use large Torpedo Gunboat capable of sea fearing, what become first Destroyer. In SF sense term is used for mobile bases, commonly doubling as shipyard and civilian population centers. With examples being Mothership from Homeworld or Supremacy from Star Wars. Term Dropship is typically used in context of military space shuttle. Basically more futuristic version Assault Helicopter. With examples being Pelican from Halo. Though larger versions also exist like Dropship from Command and Counter.

[@daibhidhtomascairn]

idk why but this show slaps hard af when im stoned

[@Tank50us]

When it comes to the question of "Do we send in the Marines? Or just nuke the place from orbit?", you need to remember: "What is the objective?" If your objective is to smash and grab adversarial politicians and force capitulation, then you send in a small ground team. If your goal is to capture a space port, or something vital to *your* war effect, you send in a larger force. If there's absolutely nothing on the planet that has any strategic value... you bypass it. You can drop a couple nukes on it if they have something they can use against you, and just do so repeatedly if needed, but if the planet isn't important... why waste any resources on it?