Drunk with power: Inside a rogue Syracuse AA group (Complete Series)

Warning: Video contains strong language.
Every day dozens of people walk through the front door of 732 Butternut street on Syracuse’s north side. They think they are attending a traditional Alcoholics Anonymous meeting, but The Syracuse Group is something vastly different. They offer a hardcore controlling brand of sobriety that looks down on outside help and medication.
The Syracuse Group, also known as The Butternutters, has operated below the radar for decades in the unregulated world of self-help groups. The only requirement to call yourself AA is two people with a desire to stop drinking.
No government agency, at any level, regulates this group’s actions or methods.
Syracuse.com reporters have conducted a year-long investigation and interviewed more than 50 people about the group’s practices. They reviewed 20 hours of publicly available audio recordings of Syracuse Group meetings.
Several former group members agreed to tell us about their experience in this four-part series by Syracuse.com | The Post-Standard.
Read the series:
Part 1: trib.al/vMJZSPZ
Part 2: trib.al/l0IULXh
Part 3: trib.al/MVcb0E8
Part 4: trib.al/ih33rKv

[@jas16899]

To the angry AA-heads who will hate this video... The point of helping others is to grow yourself as a person, not to grow your ego or to obtain authority over the lives of others. The 12th step is about carrying a message, not dictating from an armchair. Without humility in all of its forms mentioned in the big book, AA would devolve into zealotry. At a certain point, "if it keeps you sober, keep doing it" should be observed under the lens of "if it harms others, take some inventory of this baggage."

[@hilarycoombes9994]

It HAS descended into zealoutry, mate. I spent 8 years unable to run ANY aspect of my own life and a paid servant of the Matriarch of a radical group in Bristol UK. AA is unregulated, unmonitored, unanswerable to anybody, chock full of amateur psychotherapists and narcissists. I hate it and don't give one **** about your opinion of my opinion.

[@tomkidd2190]

Yes!

[@jadebass-qc6of]

Once your ego is gone they can completely control you As in Charles Manson U rid the ego you’re more impressionable

[@Tomangel61]

"Alcoholics and addicts don't have relationships, they take hostages". I heard this in a group at conifer park near Schenectady in 1995 and how true it turned out to be.

[@maretazimmerman3748]

And The ONLY Requirement for A.A. Is the Willingness to Stop Drinking ALCOHOL Not DRUGS Especially RX’s Prescribed For Chronic Pain!! Whenever I Hear A.A. Members Even Try to Criticize Others for Being on Medication I Remind Them of WHERE They’re At and AA Meeting Not an NA Meeting!!

[@kazkazimierz1742]

If a group tells you something that doesn't makes sense, find another group.

[@harrygilmana6126]

Or learn instead

[@rick-be]

Maybe she was a Christian Scientist.

[@rick-be]

Translate please....@@lorishu48103

[@mariaquiet6211]

These attitudes absolutely need to be called out. They're targeting the vulnerable and lost. "Just leave" is wonderfully simple advice for people who even have somewhere to go, before the ideas poison their psyche. Does it feel good to spout stuff like that? Does it make you feel smarter than them?

[@originalchilehed]

If only it were that simple.

[@bobbywright6062]

I wish someone would do a documentary on the Pacific Group in LA. It’s big, powerful, and dangerous. They are very very similar to this group.

[@michaelaf6580]

Yes Clancy needs to be exposed

[@serenadawn5505]

@@michaelaf6580 Clancy is gone

[@petemcc152]

@@serenadawn5505 Good

[@deliverancechristianity7261]

Sounds like Buffalo New York! Sorry 😢 to hear that

[@cmshernandez123]

@@serenadawn5505 Clancy died.

[@4862cjc]

Former member of AA here. This happens more often than is commonly known. As far as detoxing people outside of a hospital is dangerous. Without proper care, a person could die.

[@rick-be]

I told Frank,to have a beer or two but today I'm gonna say,"You're young and strong,quit".

[@mariaquiet6211]

I got told my mental illness is god's will and it has something to tell me and I should listen to it instead of medicate it. They just had to reconcile it with their higher power... who cares if that advice ruins a few lives.

[@elizabethowens8548]

Aavis a toxic cult itself

[@christianhippie711]

I've encountered AA in Maine just as extreme as this one. It's spreading... I've since left

[@nosacrifice]

This has been my experience as well.

[@SpiralMoss]

I seen people end up at the bottom of the Cliffs of Moher in Ireland because their sponsor told them to ditch their meds. Absolutely horrific. AA guru's will never accept responsibility for their immoral actions and say it was God will but these nutters are playing God themselves and will suggest meditating or praying away the depression, fear and anxiety. This bullsh1t goes on in Ireland too. If AA doesn't get it's act together it'll have to be regulated. The 13th stepping is rife too.. I'm 18 year's sober and I now and again frequently AA room that's rural with solid members and I just want to sit down and listen. My father's the same he just goes by common sense and the slogans... he's 39 year's sober 👍

[@johng6637]

All of what you describe is shameful disgrace but it is also directly contradicts the philosophy of AA's founder. It is a human organization and as such, is as vulnerable to human nature as any other.

[@billscanlan5639]

“Bottom of the Cliffs of Moher” sounds like a good 80’s punk/alt country” song. Counter point to that overly cheerful “cliffs of dover” yuck

[@SpiralMoss]

@@billscanlan5639 google the cliff of Moher it's a sad place

[@billscanlan5639]

@@SpiralMoss I shall

[@frankmccann29]

Yes. Their view has tainted medicine. People are suffering because of this.

[@rebeccak8022]

I was actually a part of the Syracuse sponsor family. My sponsor at the time was picking up a newcomer from the same halfway house so she was driving behind her. I told her I had to get some medication from Walgreens because I had cramps. She told me not to go and to just pray about it🧐

[@frankmccann29]

Dump the bit$h

[@knucklegame5050]

Dummies

[@user-mg6ml6uf9w]

That is like believing in the Easter bunny or Santa. Its just sad to think this way.

[@40pianos]

AA is the blind leading the blind drunk. Former drunks who've achieved some term of abstinence assume the role of village elder in the group, all knowing and wise in the ways of the "spiritual solution". I'm 14 years clean and sober and have attended AA off and on for 44 years. Clearly it didn't help much in those first 30 years. I stopped when my body and mind broke down and I was hospitalized. I couldn't metabolize alcohol anymore so it wasn't too hard to give it up. Finding peace and contentment was much harder. I needed a variety of chemical interventions, prescribed by doctors who were acknowledged experts in the field, to slowly stabilize me. I'm still on some medication but much of what I used to take is no longer necessary. The point I'm making is, it wasn't anybody in AA who knew how to treat the myriad underlying issues that plagued me, it was doctors, the people trained to treat what is fully and thoroughly acknowledged as a medical disorder. Stopping drinking and using is not the end goal, it's the beginning. Yet AA continues to celebrate days, months and years of sobriety like it is the one and only thing that counts. Who in their right mind would seek a clear medical perspective on any disorder from a drunk? It's insane.

[@affectivity]

From a drunk who’d managed to get and stay stay happily sober for years on end? I’d certainly give a listen, unless it was by nature medical advice.

[@acquiesce100]

Similar to me, Steve. "I needed a variety of chemical interventions, prescribed by doctors who were acknowledged experts in the field, to slowly stabilize me." Perfectly said. The science and amazing pharmaceuticals we have at our disposal should be celebrated. If it wasn't for those I wouldn't have got through the first step and it's only just the start of the journey. I was never really comfortable discussing my Alcoholism with other Alcoholics. I often found it turned into a sort of tit for tat who had the worst alcoholism or symptoms with people talking the loudest and longest. It all seemed to get a bit macho when it's actually very personal to the individual and involves many moving parts.

[@CujosBuddy]

This is so sad, it's definitely not all of AA like this. But, it's far more common than it should be. It's megalomania unchecked, and psychologically traumatizing to mainly marginalized people.

[@cyndigooch1162]

Scott McConkey I'm a Kiwi who lives in Australia and had way too many traumatic experiences while attending AA and NA meetings here, due to a lot of abusive, or downright dangerous, members! To cut an extremely long story short, I stopped going many years ago now, yet haven't drunk again, so they're wrong about that happening. I certainly don't intend to drink alcohol again either, because I've been working on my childhood trauma and other trauma issues, which were the underlying reasons why I drank and did other drugs in the first place. Of course, some AA and NA members say that I'm not a real alcoholic like them, because they were born that way, so would've drunk etc, no matter what, BUT they have unresolved childhood trauma issues as well. They also used to say that they'd prefer it if people stick to talking about alcoholism before the meetings I went to, which was very confusing. I don't know if I'll ever be able to go back and haven't had a drink, or any illicit drugs (I had psychiatric drugs literally forced on me in hospital once) for 29 years, so I'm sure that I'll manage not to for many more years. 😊

[@CujosBuddy]

@cyndigooch1162 well said

[@rick-be]

This new breed of"Big Book Thumpers"are completely misguided-it is just an ego trip.

[@classygary]

It just a matter of degrees.

[@jadebass-qc6of]

Speaking as a ex AA member from the UK it was extremely frowned upon to be on any types of medication! You’d be pulled to one side by an elder discouraging you from it. I was on anti depressants and I kept it quiet cos I knew I’d be classed lower in the group and not trusted as a sober person

[@classygary]

Now you go to groups where everyones on something. In short 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@jeanhartely]

AA is very culty because it is non-falsifiable. If someone remains sober in AA, it's because the program works. If someone relapses, it's because *they* failed, didn't work the steps or failed to submit their will to a higher power or whatever. People who attain sobriety without AA are labeled "dry drunks," not credited for being REALLY sober, even though the point of all this is to stay off booze, isn't it?

[@paulfrye2962]

Interesting, someone actually making an argument. I've heard everything you've said. The problem is there isn't a real plan B is there? My father got sober over 40 years ago without AA. He is a dry drunk though. The steps if you actually take them humble you. I've been sober 20, 14 in 6 out now. He has come along way but he struggles with empathy. My brother sober over ten now. He's moderately involved in AA as I can tell. He's a veteran and started his sobriety in a VA hospital. The doctors there put him on antidepressants. He joined AA. I don't know if he has a sponsor. He doesn't show any attitude like he's taking the steps or even work them. He is a angry dry drunk. It takes so little to set him off. I don't think he was in battle. I have no idea what his military career was like. I mentioned plan B. The damage done to a person who's an alcoholic is incredible. The choice's they made to continue past good reason to stop does insidious things to the mind and body.

[@bobbycecere1037]

No. The point of 12 step fellowships is to have a spiritual experience which first facilitates you getting sober, then heals the underlying issues Which caused you to reach out for drugs in the 1st place.

[@paulfrye2962]

@Donny Hathaway you may have a problem with social anxiety disorder but if you are an alcoholic, your underlying problem is alcoholism. If you lose your sobriety your disorder will be irrelevant. Just a heads up. Take care.

[@paulfrye2962]

@Donny Hathaway sorry to upset you. I wasn't the one to write the rules about alcoholism. And alcoholism isn't a mental disorder. It can effect a persons mental state and complicate mental health. I'm not comparing or dictating. In AA many people didn't and don't believe the facts. They want to be the exception. Alcoholism is not a separate person. Your recovery from the disorder you have requires you to be sober. That's all. If you didn't find drinking like you did it wouldn't change the fact you have a disorder. It's not a competition. Please stay sober and recover.

[@jeffreydonaldson9757]

Most people that stay sober is becuase the have a desire to stay sober. It is calling yourself an recovered alcoholic. means have the common sense to know when AA isn't wotking.

[@andrewmartin6445]

This just sounds like a slightly exaggerated version of the "normal" AA group: unqualified and unaccountable people trying to bully the vulnerable "for their own good".

[@LoloO42]

This is common in 12 step groups all over the US. Definitely NOT limited to Syracuse. In the southern states the meetings are over the top Christian. So if you follow any other (or no) religion, you are not welcome.

[@crooked-halo]

My home group (Clear Cut Directions, Grapevine, TX) adhered strictly to the salad bar (make your own) god of AA. When I was in AA I went to many other meetings in the D/FW area. None of them encouraged only applying the God of Christians. Now, most in the south identify as Christians, perhaps they are vocal about their belief (as they should be). But every AA group I attended was strictly by the Big Book. In fact I left AA because I cannot reconcile my biblical relationship with Jesus to the salad bar god & beliefs of AA any longer. I’m happily many years sober and have transformed every area of my life that the 12 Steps addresses.

[@crooked-halo]

Lolo - You are absolutely incorrect by saying “you are not welcome” at AA groups in the south if you’re not a Christian. What bullshit!

[@allisa-vi7lp]

@@crooked-halo I'm in DFW also. I think your experience is more common here I'm glad to say.

[@indigoginzo9843]

So they don't end every meeting with "the Lord's Prayer" and many of the steps aren't predicated on believing in God in the Christian sense?

[@goldsmithstudent]

Medication is an outside issue and should never be brought up in an AA meetings. We are not doctors. We are only alcoholic helping others stay sober. This group needs an inventory

[@davidpack6355]

Im in aa..but im a fentynal addict and was overdosing on the regular..i had to get into the mat program or die..so im in the program and im on suboxone..and guess what..i got zero f's to give what anyone in any meeting has to say about it..oh you aint sober..this that and the other..i dont have a needle in my arm anymore..and im happy

[@astroemerald3175]

Thank god this video pointed out not all AA groups are toxic . Advising anyone to cases meds is being criminally negligent . Disgusting .

[@johng6637]

This is nothing new. Any large organization can experience "rogue" pockets. It is called human nature and it has been true throughout the history of AA. That this group contravenes the attitudes and philosophy of the founder of AA and the General Service Organization never crosses their minds. They "know best". These groups come and go.

[@johncoffin9354]

They come too often, and go too seldom. This abusive, conformist, sponsor-worshipping style of 'AA' guarantees options for abuse. On the medication thing, REAL AA literature has repeated stated that no one should give medical advice as an AA member. These cults isolate their members from real AA. If they actually read AA's literature, they'd leave immediately.

[@monica_richardson]

Thank you for exposing this horrific story

[@sadiegohl9768]

We have something similar to this in California … Pacific Group, very dangerous

[@user-ml9rs8kr4w]

AA is pretty dangerous period . I live near pacific group and it’s criminal what they do

[@ghostplanner]

Wow....wow. this is literally happening at my group in Florida. The control over people taking medication is disgusting. After 90 days I relapsed and the group "leaders" have encouraged their sponsees to not talk to me anymore

[@marktravels9601]

I know a lot of Syracuse group members who started other groups in Florida , Georgia, and North Carolina. No joke .Lots of them started leaving after those kids died.

[@Seawitch907]

That’s just Fckin lovely! I knew a holier than thou arrogant and sadistic female like that 🤣 she was terrible toward me from day 1 she had 15 years 🤣🤣🤣 after she abused me, she brought our 13 year old daughters into it! She hasn’t been right since 🥳 made national headlines woman floats off the coast of Hawaii on a log for 19 hours 🌈 and in 2020 she lost her mind and was shooting across the highway she keeps making the front page

[@jonathanbrownell7145]

Where in Florida, because I've heard this same thing in the Tampa Bay area while attending some rooms.

[@swimcalgal]

Horrible

[@erosmandex3048]

God, some of the voices from the leaders in the recordings gave me chills

[@samsundarduvakemar6207]

Yes. They are little dictators. And you don't want their "sobriety" it absolutely sucks.

[@MEGANOlandisKahn]

Frank!

[@ang300]

I know Frank he’s in Buffalo now

[@ang300]

Very sick individual

[@Johnconno]

At least it has the right address... This goes on all over the world.

[@nanamc8295]

They also say take what you need and leave the rest, not everyone needs a sponsor 😊

[@travisconfer2255]

they are literally describing most AA talk

[@travisconfer2255]

I would just love to find a sobriety support group independent of AA independent of religion, independent of worship that focuses on positivity, graditute, support, self-betterment and growth, there is a very real need for something along those lines, so many people get pushed into AA looking for support and end up finding cult-like theology worship, twisted ideals and get pushed away and end up going further downhill and I've been one of those people and it's a real shame cause you go to rehab because you want to fix your life and then they tell you 100 times a day it's either this new religion or go back to where you were at and be worse off than before.

[@jennifercooper1727]

Have you heard of SMART Recovery? Evidence based, solution focused self management and recovery training.

[@knucklegame5050]

EXACTLY. Looney Toons

[@todddorfman3736]

should also look into the Complete Abandon group in Atlanta, it's like a cult

[@rodneydaub3812]

Extremists in AA? No way! you would never convince me

[@reglagirl5802]

Important content here… Thanks I’m sure it will save lives

[@Zoopnigh]

Regulate rehab groups immediately.

[@izzydangerous6990]

Zoop Nigh something about the right to free association

[@Zoopnigh]

@@izzydangerous6990 If you are treating somebody for a medical issue, you don't get that right, because that's morally wrong. You actually have to treat them according to sound science.

[@knucklegame5050]

No, NOT rehab groups, AA GROUPS

[@blah646]

Clarification: My sobriety date is November 19th, 1977, I am a diabetic, and I have had open heart surgery. Both of these conditions require medication. My AA Big Book in the Doctor’s Opinion talks about the “manic depressive” about which a whole chapter can be written about. Being an alcoholic in recovery does Not make me a Doctor,nor Psychiatrist- Psychologist. Obviously, this Syracuse outfit is Not within the established framework of the Twelve Traditions. Ron H. - Canada

[@rick-be]

It's not an AA Group,it's a few dominant individuals.

[@nanamc8295]

People have to learn to think for yourself, think think think

[@rgb188]

If your in AA you are told you can't trust your thinking, that your best thinking got you here, but yes, you are also told to think think think. It's a walking contradiction. I spent well over 10 years in the middle of AA, 1000's of meetings. Left last year & its been a good move. Groups like this are everywhere.

[@krishankochar3059]

Yep have experienced this myself.

[@85superchris]

You don't need 12 steps to get to God.

[@kazkazimierz1742]

And you don't need to get God to stay sober.

[@JoshuaJones-tx4nv]

Sounds just like any other AA groups in America. When will people wise up.

[@davidwhitcher1708]

Dosent sound like any groups i have been to.

[@ghostplanner]

I went to a group exactly like this in Florida. It was insane. However, I've been to MANY other groups that are saving people's lives

[@ohara3459]

Read the orange papers online

[@kazkazimierz1742]

I agree. Interesting stuff there.

[@CharleysMom2]

Yes

[@timburton9514]

Where can I find them?

[@katieroller4812]

In the Big book of Alcoholics Anonymous it states we should "make use of what accredited doctors,professionals etc have to offer" period.I by no means am a "Big Book thumper"but having genuine, humbling people as my friends in AA with lengthy sobriety have changed my life.However! I'll be damned if I allow someone like a mechanic with long "dry time" be the authority on if I should or not take medication!!! EGO!!!

[@rick-be]

And who knows if he is actually "dry"?

[@robcaraher3113]

And you have never gone out on the street, picked up a hopeless alcoholic and gave them lodging AA that you hypocrite freak

[@frankmccann29]

Remember Synanon

[@revamped831]

Sounds like standard AA.

[@raygibbs1700]

I’m 17 years sober and do 4 to 6 meetings a week. And what your saying is not true. What this group and some of there offshoots are Not Standard.

[@leetarrant5630]

@@raygibbs1700 17yrs sober still doing 6 meetings a week,why ??

[@somexp12]

Standard AA is one of two things: 1. a bunch of folks sitting around a table talking about bullsh!t. (Including medication, housing, jobs etc.) 2. A more conservative variety that limits itself mostly to step-work. The cults start forming when sponsors start trying to act like surrogate parents. This blends the two standard versions, with sponsors (who were supposed to limit their instruction to the only - and possibly ineffective - thing they know, step-work) using their influence to guide according to the nonsense they culled from discussion meetings. Essentially, they give the opinions expressed in these meetings teeth.

[@peterjonas4971]

@@leetarrant5630 Because we're alcoholics. Quituing drinking is only the first step. Changing those parts of us that lead us to drinking in the first place are also part of the program. Finally, no one is telling you to go to AA.

[@knucklegame5050]

EXACTLY. ALL LOONEY TOONS THERE

[@Atitlan1222]

I've been in AA sober...for 34 years and I've never seen anything like this. I have heard people try and grandstand with their knowledge of the Big Book, go off on weird tangents, cross talk , suggest the steps can be done in any order....all sorts of stuff. I've seen some guys hit on women and make them feel uncomfortable but other members usually step in and say something. In one Club in HOuston the board bans peole that get out of line (like the things I mentioned above) but give them a chance to come back after a few months. Since AAlets anyone in that wants t ostay sober, the entry level requirement is as low as it can get so It's inevitable you'll get people in meetings that are a bit screwed up. I lived in Latinamerica for many years and went to tons of meeting all over and saw/heard things that were a bit off. The thing is, if one group is a loose cannon then go to another. Ther are so many. If you notice people quoting a person from the group then thats a red flag. There are NO experts.

[@rick-be]

The Big Book thumpers make me sick-it's all a EGO trip.

[@user-ml9rs8kr4w]

Why are still enslaved by your previous bad habit ? Your life was robbed .

[@Atitlan1222]

@@user-ml9rs8kr4w What do you mean?

[@rick-be]

@@user-ml9rs8kr4w We have to grow or else we deteriorate. For us,the"status quo"can only be for today, never for tomorrow. Change we must; we cannot stand still; for us that is to whither away. Bill W

[@mrgmills70]

This group just got infected by human ego. That's why it's "principles not personalities." Humans are flawed. A.A. is flawed. I'll be 20 years sober soon, got sober in A.A. and recently shifted to another 12-step program. This group shouldn't reflect on A.A. as a whole. And it doesn't for me. :)

[@user-ml9rs8kr4w]

Your a weak individual with no critical thought. You are addicted to cult propaganda. How very sad . 😑 and you have the typical hostile attitude. So many inner raging steppers . That’s what happens when you shut down emotions

[@travisconfer2255]

this is not a rogue group this is your average 1 in 3 or so group

[@petererb9463]

AA groups enjoy an astonishing amount of freedom to choose. That group is an outlier methinks.

[@MEGANOlandisKahn]

They are now in buffalo known as the absolutes. You can go there and say hi to Frank T.

[@ang300]

They prey on weak minded individuals

[@MEGANOlandisKahn]

@ang5180 they prey on sick individuals who need help. They target early sobriety when your brain is not functioning properly. Alcoholism is a mental disease, not a lack of will power. I see these guys at meetings targeting the person who has no time. Its sickening.

[@frizzlefry01]

I felt that I needed to come to AA in order to get sober because I could not stop drinking no matter the consequences, no matter how bad my life continued to get. So yeah i was definitely weak minded when it came to getting sober, thank God there was help available for me within the rooms.

[@msmoody8334]

They need a video just like this one for harassment of newcommers and their cunning, black mail behavior. Frank also sleeps with the young woman and tells them not to date.

[@seang6810]

These are always near rehabs and sober living I don’t think it’s a coincidence they are all over Florida

[@michaelaf6580]

Midtown AA group is still going on and very much the same.

[@rodb66]

The fact that AA has people to affirm they're alcoholics no matter how long they've quit drinking is ridiculous. They seem to put a lot of blame of the people and not the poisonous alcohol.

[@843andrew]

My primary issue with this video is they seem to portray just this group as anti medication. They may be hardcore about this issue, however, aa, generally speaking, is anti medication.

[@Eric-pz1iv]

Fact. I'm sober and very happy with how I am now. Mental health care professionals saved my life. AA calls me a dry drunk regardless of how happy I am because I don't go to "their" meetings and go to my own therapist and non religious group meetings

[@larry1824]

If a group tells you no.other AA group can get you sober run for the door. Vanity and narcissism will.not get or keep you sober

[@annarichardson8284]

Sounds like controlling thugs.

[@raygibbs1700]

Wanna see a offshoot of this group come to Greenville NC It’s called the Greenway group led by Jodie B He moved here from Syracuse years ago and started this Offshoot of that original group.

[@samuelhager1140]

Any suggestions on a detox i can go to in america that doesnt push AA or na i cant find one. Help

[@shannsimms9072]

This is insane and sad.

[@gaedenia]

sounds like scientology not AA

[@user-ml9rs8kr4w]

A lot of similarities

[@alisonsmith8719]

I wish someone would do a story on the North Augusta SC chapter

[@terryjross1184]

There is a group in perth wa pulling this stunt re medications I am personally against this in every way and have been vocal on that score They need to be ousted but no one can force them out All the people I know that went through the extremes of this phoney AA are still unwell mentally

[@rick-be]

When I hear wrong advice,I often give the correct in the first person and do not address the BS.

[@rgb188]

Ultimately, AA is not a melting pot of wellness.

[@terryjross1184]

@rgb188 quite the opposite eh 😅

[@TheHSIHP]

They would send their group members to the nearby rehab (Tully Hill) to recruit members during the rehab's Saturday night AA meeting. Guys and girls with a few month's sobriety would be sponsoring what they called "pigeons" straight out of the rehab. Predatory.

[@TheHSIHP]

@@jberndt88 yikes

[@magmae5183]

Can someone investigate the Buffalo Group in Buffalo NY an offspring of Syracuse Group. Same things happening here.

[@jasonjones4036]

There's one of these types of group in Indianapolis, IN. It is the ANY AND ALL CONDITIONS group. It is not a typical group. It may help some but is dangerous

[@greatest7391]

The craziest people in the rooms are the Oldtimer's.

[@nanamc8295]

You can change whenever you want, this is BS no one can control you unless you let them, start thinking for yourself, there's so much free help out there, talked what you need and leave the rest 😊❤

[@JimWelsh-fw7hd]

We're all adults.If someone tells you to stop taking your medication and you stop, then who's fault is it?

[@RinoSchiavoCampo]

I just float. If something feels weird, I move on. It might be tougher in some areas.

[@juliewillis9539]

I grew up with a problem drinker. How dare someone tell me who i am when i never knew.

[@katiovtsinova658]

I am sorry for all your bad experiences. I have to agree that if you are on medication, you are not clean. Meds are just legal drugs. Probably you shouldn't quit some meds from one day to another, but it should definitely be the end goal. May God help you with your recoveries.

[@E4Sierra]

It's all legal drugs .. alcohol, caffeine, nicotine, most all processed food, etc. The percentage of Americans who truly never ingest any form of legal drug, is very miniscule .. e.g. if you drink coffee or tea, you are not clean. To say otherwise is cherry-picking which (legal) drugs are acceptable and which ones aren't.

[@johngrenier2102]

Meriden CT AA stalked a few times

[@pretendperfection]

This is how MOST AA groups are. This is not an uncommon experience within the groups.

[@samuelstreeter7763]

Hi my name is Sam and I am addict/alcohol. Step one: I am powerless over my addiction. Running away, pulling a geographic, won't work this time. It's not that bad, too Mr, but I don't know about family and friends near me. So. 1st. To get a quick sober going on. What are the other symptoms showing up? Mental health combination with addiction . juggling so many issues not sure how one doing in every area with attempt. Professional intervene would be highly effective in keeping the alcoholic on tract. Yo be successful with the aspects of life that are challenging.drugs highten my senses, this early indicating could sercumvent future dismay

[@johnywoodsman2890]

Every group is like that

[@mayapaceybental]

All of the things described in this documentary I have had in every AA or NA group I was in. This is what those programs are about.

[@bobbycecere1037]

Nope. Most are not remotely similar to this story.

[@nosacrifice]

This has been my experience as well.

[@bobbycecere1037]

@@nosacrifice I doubt it.

[@nosacrifice]

@@bobbycecere1037 What would you know?

[@bobbycecere1037]

@@nosacrifice I've been thousands of meetings. I would've noticed.

[@sly9566]

This type of behaviour is common in many AA groups

[@TonyFrickey-ur9jy]

So much for anonymity haha sarcasm* they put the exact address on here :)

[@peterjonas4971]

In Buffalo, it's Absolutes and Buffalo Group

[@msmoody8334]

They both need a video lile this

[@mcbby7]

In 2019 I went to a really hardcore AA treatment center in NH and am still effd up from it. Reply in the comments if you’re familiar. I’m trying to find other people who went through this

[@Burnthestigma420]

This isn’t exclusive to this group. There are MANY 12 step groups that operate like this.

[@taylorhumes7567]

Buddy... AA was never a good place.

[@Lady-Tamara]

This is not an unusual event. Many AA groups encourage people to go off their medications. Are 13th Stepped. Are controlled by sponsors. It’s all too common.

[@katiempojer]

Tamara Roberts yes it is. I go to SMART recovery

[@samsundarduvakemar6207]

AA is not a safe place.

[@samsundarduvakemar6207]

In AA groups people come in vulnerable & easily led. Then they get some quack sponsor who has changed their drug of choice from alcohol to control and they tell their sponsees to come off their medications etc. There have been many deaths because of sponsors playing doctor.

[@sharroncocker401]

@@katiempojer i go there im safe there

[@classygary]

This is just an extreme case/example of what the whole “program” is also the so called professionals are often times more nefarious and/or outright clueless and do even worse harm if that’s even possible.

[@johnmcdermott8523]

Recording people without their knowledge?

[@Herzeleydt_Diesentrueb]

It's the same problem as it is with Christians : If only they would stick to their basic rules ...

[@krisscanlon4051]

Butternut St is quite ironic...rogue AA is not a good fit. Thats where autonomy and anonymity is real bad thing.

[@tomkidd2190]

Lately there seems to be a growing MAAGA movement inside the rooms. Make Alcoholics Anonumous Great Again.

[@user-en4mz1gj1e]

sometimes medication dont work , i know someone whos been taking meds for drinking for a month now and they like taking the meds but they are actually drinking even more now ,

[@dirtykitchenkids1737]

This dude with all the jewelry is a drug addict not an alcoholic.

[@geraldb.3435]

I can’t stand groups like this!!! AA saved my life (my grandfather, mother, and uncle died as a result of their drinking), I’m the first one in my family to get sober (7 years). Groups like this aren’t real AA, (no sponsor worth his/her salt will tell you to stop taking doctor prescribed medication, only suggestion would be to take it as prescribed, because the sponsor is not a doctor). There are other groups out there that actually help people get sober, groups like the Syracuse group should be avoided.

[@anyb5020]

AA saved your life? So your not powerless huh……so you chose to go to AA…. Try smart recovery. So much better

[@adrianh332]

All AA groups exhibit similar traits just to a lesser degree so it goes unnoticed. If it works for you that's great but you should be aware that AA ticks quite a few boxes regarding culty behaviour, not enough to meet the criteria for an actual cult but enough to be concerning.

[@petererb9463]

AA is a good place to find thirteenth steppers. And avoid them.

[@tonybudhasbuslife...4616]

Shut down as an individual by hierarchy of power..even my photo presented switched off by individual so called groups..who runs AA???

[@kyuss89]

Butternut lol😅

[@deliverancechristianity7261]

Buffalo New York location too NOT AA IF PPL ARE DYING I KNOW FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE IT GIVES AA A BAD REP THERE NOOOOOTTT AA

[@crooked-halo]

Turn off your caps lock! Makes you sound childish.

[@jkl3090]

I’ve never seen anyone in AA tell people to not take medications. And generally you can’t tell people what to do or not to do. You’re only supposed to suggest things.

[@NoiseGrinder]

If its only suggestions then no one has to follow it - including the sponsors who are telling people not to take medications. They can do that and still be in AA. Which is why AA is not a safe place. Connect the dots.

[@MEGANOlandisKahn]

Its pressure to vulnerable individuals

[@christianhippie711]

Yes they're "suggestions" but we're told if we don't take the said suggestions, there is jails, institutions and death. That is emotional manipulation and brainwashing in its finest

[@TheHSIHP]

You're the problem

[@hilarycoombes9994]

Well - never the case where I was!!!!!

[@Sanity333]

Unfortunately there are a few groups like this. It’s sad, thankfully the majority of AA is nothing like this.

[@juliewillis9539]

Aa needs to change.

[@OctavioDelgado-ft8rd]

AA has no rules

[@bethhayes1]

AA always felt waaay to cult like for me! 15 mos. Sober. Read some books, watched some great non AA videos on ways to quit and was done. No more alcohol!! Not a fan of AA.

[@user-zr7rc8xg9k]

An AA gang..i would probably join 💯

[@knucklegame5050]

I Hate AA Drunks. Bunch of Power Freaks.They're nothing but idiots who are NOT even Practicing Recovery, and Most of em Relapse within 3months time. Me Personally, i think most Still drink the Whole Time

[@msmoody8334]

Me too.

[@msmoody8334]

Ive always thought that.

[@arcpuffin]

AA needs to be abolished

[@kingstreetg2025]

😂😂😂

[@easygoing7500]

Yes the take advantage of people when the are vulnerable. Most "12" steppers should be hung from the church steeples.

[@MEGANOlandisKahn]

This group is not a 12 stepper, they are a 2 stepper. Theyre now in buffalo known as the absolutes.

[@juliewillis9539]

I was akways scared of aa

[@rick-be]

He looks like a spiritual giant.

[@jadebass-qc6of]

Sponsors dictate a lot!! And u feel I have to because you’ve told them all your secrets so they a hold over you They know everything due to steps 4/5 and then 10 I was also 13 stepped and that’s why I left but it made me drink more AA RUINED my life

[@user-zr7rc8xg9k]

Im not seeing your point.. nothing wrong with being militant..🤔🌍

[@helpyourcattodrive]

Hmm

[@jamie.777]

There is like a billion group's, just find a new one. Gimmee a break

[@Eric-pz1iv]

Not in small towns give them a break. AA isn't the only solution for alcoholism. I've been to some small town meetings and heard this message of no medication and then found out all the towns groups are ran by the same group. AA isn't uncurruptable.