AMWDW Firebrand and "Lawful Good" Characters

[@nullvoid4063]

This reminds me of a quote I saw; "raising children is not about teaching them how to grow up in a harsh and unforgiving world, it's about teaching them how to make the world a little less harsh and unforgiving". Thanks to all of the lawful good people out there, and never stop helping!

[@KororaPenguin]

"Life itself [is] hard enough without monosynaptic sociopaths preying on folks." -- Corran Horn, _I, Jedi_

[@sonicgen20]

I agree, I think lawful good characters like Superman get too much unfair hate. These are the heroes I wish existed in real life.

[@ShiroNekoDen]

***** it's not hate, it's boring or unrelateable, story is driven by conflict either actual, mental or emotional. characters like superman conflict is limited to do i stick to my morals or not in order to save someone or omg I am so strong i have to be careful i don't break something or someone and that has been explored to death. an outright good or evil character are boring.

[@sonicgen20]

white hawk Well I don't see it that way. So, sorry we have to be on opposing sides.

[@jf8350143]

white hawk There are way more things can be explored with Superman besides the two things you have mentioned. He is an outright good character( or use to be, since the N52 changes him totally), but that is only one aspect of him. Not every story is based on morale standard, and even the morale standard based story can have different take based on the different situation.

[@chip2814]

The unfortunate thing for lawful good characters is that they fight their entire lives and refuse to compromise their morals, leaving many despicable characters to try again and every person who dies that next time around is forever on their conscious. True heroes don't really get to win, they don't get to hang up their cape and call it a day when there's trouble. In the end all they get is a tired old body withered from years of fighting and a mind stricken by guilt... or that one time they fail.

[@7Seraphem7]

I fully 100% agree with Firebrand on this. And it's why I freaking LOVE the Marvel Movies, while haven't liked a single DC based movie in the last two decades that I can think of. And it's all summed up in one line from Cap 2. "I can't do that sir. Captain's orders." THAT is what makes Captain America so damn awesome, amzing, and so NEEDED as the charcter he is. He is an ideal. Even after having spent days being told Cap was traitor, having to hunt him, all it takes is one speech by him, him explaining what was going on, and everyone believed him. because they know who he is, what he stands for. They believed in him enough, that even with a gun to his head, that tech was going to stand up for what he felt was right. "Lawful Good character have no conflict" Bullshit, just look at Age of Ultron. The Avengers struggling to evacuate the floating city. They don't destroy the landmass in time, it will crash back down and the impact will wipe out most higher life forms on earth. But at the same time, is it right to simply sacrifice all the people on it to stop that? They keep fighting to try and save EVERYONE! Not write off any as 'acceptable losses' 'Superman is to powerful/to good/boring/whatever" All I have to say to that, is All Star Superman. If Superman is 'boring' that's because the writer simply doesn't know what they are doing with him. Yeah, sorry to be so crass, but anyone who really thinks a character MUST be dark, and angsty, and brooding and an asshole to be a 'good character' is a freaking moron. And Doc, like you said, even if someone so perfect, so noble, etc... isn't 'realistic' that just means we need characters like that even more. In the words of the late, and oh so great Sir Terry Pratchett "You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else do they *become*"

[@starwars90001]

7Seraphem7 Hey seraphem, where do you stand on the idea that a lawful good character isn't good if they use violence to solve a problem. Like saying batman isn't good because he uses violence to protect people.

[@7Seraphem7]

starwars90001 ...... What?

[@justadude4938]

7Seraphem7 What do you have against the Dark Knight trilogy? It's pretty good. Lawful good characters being interesting and chaotic good character being interesting are not mutually exclusive.

[@starwars90001]

7Seraphem7 sorry I didn't read over what I'd type. but I edit it.

[@Mysticgamer]

I'll never understand why unrealistic is considered a bad thing when talking about comicbook characters. Superman is unrealistic because of his powers, even though he's an alien on an alien planet. Batman is considered realistic because he's just a mortal man...who knows almost every discipline of Martial Arts and sciences.

[@Gungelion]

I think one of the reasons why people have native reactions to lawful good characters is because it makes them reflect upon themselves. All and all I'd say Superman versus the elite basically symbolizes everything

[@joshscorcher]

Just saved the day!

[@ZaaltheDragon]

*?*

[@OfWaynesAndPuppets]

***** There's a "How It Should Have Ended" reference in there somewhere. ;)

[@rebeccaliar9873]

***** Just saved the day!

[@Emptybee]

***** Who was that masked unicorn?

[@codybratsch]

***** ALL OF MY YES!!!!! You, sir, along with Dr. Wolf just highlighted everything I love about lawful good characters in this video!!!! I too aspire to be like this heroes such as Captain America and Superman. I mean, sure anti-heroes like Wolverine and such are cool and all and I love those kinds of characters, but I strive to be more like the good Captain and the Man of Steel. I like to try and do the right thing because it is in fact the right thing same as the lawful good characters. And I also love watching these characters try to do the same!!! To me it is always interesting to watch how these black and white good guys always try to do what's right even when the world around them gets shadier and tries to blur the line between good and bad. Like you said, it's even harder to tell in this day and age what the right thing is and to me, Captain America: Winter Soldier highlighted that a lot. That is an aspect that continues to make lawful good characters interesting to me especially today, because everything else around them is saying to be a prick. But the good guys, the real good guys continue to defy that way of thinking and push on as boy scouts. But even without that element, I still love watching these characters do the right thing anyways. I love that they do it because it's right and in kind I try to do things because they are the right things. Not just because the heroes do it, but because... well you know. "I'm no one's judge and jury. I'm certainly not gonna be anybody's executioner."-Superman

[@tylerharris7081]

Lawful good characters are one of the oldest protagonist archetypes out there. People have always wanted to be the man who would fight for their ideals no matter what. Because this desire is so common, tons of writers use them in their works. The problem is a poor writer will usually forget to add personality to the character. People who hate lawful good characters tend to really be upset with the poor characters and condemn the entire archetype by association. It's the same sort of reasoning behind COD haters, they hate those games because there are half a million clones in the market.

[@darkfang347]

love Captain America, though I can see how he can seem "Too Good". He rarely shows any form of turmoil, which is not the norm. Everyone has some form of struggle. But as for Superman... I don't mind his "Pure Good" and no killing motives. What I can't stand about Superman is his ability (Or rather the Writers) adapt to everything. He needs to burn through metal, oh look heat vision, he needs ice, oh look ice breath, and so on and so forth.

[@Kayclau]

My problem with "Lawful Good" Characters is not that they aren't realistic or that they're too perfect, is that it's hard to write them well in a story were that side of them can be shown and keeps interesting. Captain America is, right now, a really interesting and relatable character. As a time traveler he's basically an alien to the world surrounding him, everyone who he ever met is dead and he's constantly monitorized by whoever is in charge, he does have a dark side, it's just not the obvious one that every other superhero has. The Winter Soldier was, on my opinion, the best way to show this side of Steve Rogers. His best friend wanted to kill him, the organization in charge (AKA Shield) was corrupted. Socially speaking, Shield still are the good guys, with or without Hydra in it, but the right thing is to stop them. His best friend was an assasin who worked for the enemy, but a friend is never left behind. He did the right thing even when everyone else thought that he should or he didn't have to and he never hesitated. He has a line that he will never cross and is when he is in the edge and is still able to not cross it when he is interesting for me. That's why I don't find Man of Steel that interesting. It wasn't about he trying to not cross his line, it was about wether or not it was OK to cross it. For me is not, end of the story. There's no case were it is. That line is there for a reason and I stand for that. If is not then I'll draw the line somewhere else or I won't draw any line whatsoever. Lots of characters don't have a line or have their line somewhere else.

[@omniviewer2115]

My guess is that people have this mindset: "Well, I could set an excellent example by taking the high road and setting a good example, but that sounds too hard." Doing the right thing is a challenge. The dark side is quicker and easier, to paraphrase Yoda, and most people would prefer doing something that's easy, even if the consequences are far worse in the long run. As for me, I try to do my part by being as lawfully good as I can.

[@hariman7727]

It doesn't help that Moral Relativism and Situational Ethics are taught on many a college campus, leaving impressionable college students with little to no objective grounds for an actual standard.

[@KororaPenguin]

And the Dark Side is its own punishment in the end. Just ask Vader.

[@keirantalent]

8:25 Giving us a bit of Samwise Gamjey there. "There's some good in this world, and it;s worth fighting for."

[@TimelordRick]

Doc, Josh, THANK YOU. This speaks to me. I'm a fan of characters like this, Superman in particular, And I'm very glad to hear a conversation about this. Superman, from the moment I was introduced to him as a boy. No other influence has shaped my moral fiber like he has. Every time I show a bit of enthusiasm for him, I'm told I'm wrong, that he can't be interesting. That I should like batman, "Because he's the most realistic" And honestly, being told that I should abandon a character who embodies hope and optimism, for one who's wealth and tragic backstory make everyone give his insanity and blood-lust a pass, honestly that makes me rather sad.

[@keylessbaton4758]

A lot of what Firebrand said I feel about Jonathan Joestar.

[@MegatronPrime321]

Why do I adore seeing Josh and Dr Wolf interact so much?

[@MegatronPrime321]

Metamorphia MLP No, they're just two of my favourite KZbinrs and I love practically all Dr Wolf's AMWDW videos so seeing these two interact with each other just makes my day.

[@Argumedies]

Dr Wolf has claws, your argument has been validated.

[@Anna-rk5vw]

I fully agree Josh. Truth be told, i've always been a sucker for the heroes rather then villains or even anti-heroes for that matter. So it really aggravates me how underrated Captain America is. I understand not everybody will have an interest to him, but I still wish they'd understand his goal and purpose. When people call his sort of courage and determination "Boring", I honestly don't know how to reply to that. All he does is for the better good. And like you said, "Why DO characters have to be evil or dark to be interesting"? While I won't deny some dark characters are indeed fun to watch, I view the lawful good as no less interesting. To be honest, it saddens me when people say these sort of things about Captain America specifically. I mean heck, it's almost like Good is now evil, and evil is now good. Is it really so wrong for Steve to be the man he is? I for one, am proud to call myself a fan of his. If I could name one character I look up to, he'd be the first in mind.

[@AzariahMarinaStarcaster]

Does this remind anyone else of the complaints about Applejack? I don't know why, but this makes me think of her for some reason.

[@garyk3478]

PropheticProse I think its related. Applejack seems less entertainingly flawed than the mane 6. Not flawed as in wrong, but flawed as in the crack in a character where you can squeeze in a story. Rarity's drama, Twilight's OCD, Dash's ego, Pinkie's manic obliviousness, or Fluttershy's... I forget what Fluttershy's flaw is. :) Don't get me wrong -- Applejack's my favorite character.

[@Raziel312]

Darth Wedgius How about how Fluttershy has panic attacks if more than 2 ponies she doesn't know are looking at her at the same time.

[@crazy13alex]

+Raziel312 there is a condition, I just don't remember the name for it.

[@hariman7727]

Prophetic Prose: This also reminds me of Ink Rose and Celestia's Characterization, where Ink Rose and Dr Wolf discuss how Celestia is often portrayed as a tyrant and a monster. There's a vein of hatred for anything good and just in today's pop culture. A nasty streak of tearing down good examples on the most spurious of grounds, and smearing anything that might be pure and happy with misery, cynicism, and hatred. It's horrifying to see just how many people hate, instead of seeking understanding, or even just letting other people live and enjoy what they have.

[@KororaPenguin]

@@hariman7727 Mickey Mouse replaced the Luke Skywalker who helped the mass murderer Kyp Durron overcome his evil with a Luke Skywalker who seriously considered offing his nephew while the latter slept simply for fear of a Dark Side taint.

[@MWhaleK]

A good way to make a Lawful Good character interesting is to have them struggle with a choice between the two, do you follow the law or do you break the law to do the right thing. Also when it comes to Steve Rogers' dark side, remember the he fought in WWII and was very much a soldier in that war doing what soldiers do and witnessing the horrible things that both sides did.

[@KororaPenguin]

The real life Ten Boom family in Holland. When the Nazis invaded, lawful and good came into conflict. They decided, "Screw the rules; we're doing what's right."

[@weldonwin]

Kind of off topic but... Doctor Wolf in this one, looks like he's escaped from an anime where he has a bunch of teenage girls competeing for his attention. I hearby dub this version of him Senpai-Wolf

[@KidSnivy69]

So this art style has him looking Bishōnen?

[@rebeccaliar9873]

weldonwin Senpai-Wolf is best wolf. Although, I think the grammatically correct version is Wolf-senpai. I could be wrong, though.

[@cmm07r]

weldonwin I was just about to say that. I just had this image of DrWolf running his fingers of one of his hands through his hair while the other is holding his glasses to his mouth slightly biting the edge. I'll admit it, I may have watched a bit too much anime, some of which intended for teenage girls.

[@weldonwin]

Also, I expect this Doctor Wolf to do Kung Fu and possibly have magical powers... oh and have an evil doppleganger, whom you know is evil, because he wears a black leather coat with no shirt.

[@Takisan111]

weldonwin I think he might be more the sexy new assistant sensei type. All the students would love him but their love can never be because the law says so.

[@sadlobster1]

As far as I can tell, Cap is a far more relatable character than Stark could ever hope to be. Like him; I have my own physical inadequacies, was bullied in the past and live by a moral code that the majority of society chooses to abolish or just plain ignore. I've met people like Stark before. Pushy, arrogant, EXTREMELY selfish, greedy and as vain as all sin. These people do do little in life yet get loads of recognition for the "good things" they do. Politicians and business people are two PRIME examples of this. Yet real heroes, war heroes like Cap sacrifice so many things for the greater good. Heck, I've never seen Stark make any kind of sacrifices. Cap lost his friends, his lover, his family and (as he thought) his partner; after he was frozen. After Stark's one incident where he was near death (the moment he gained the ARC reactor,) what sacrifices did HE make afterwards? All you Iron Man fans out there are free to love him all you wish. But after watching this...you may want to give Stark a good, long look and question whether or not he's worthy of your love

[@willgeary6086]

sadlobster1 If I can rebuttal the Iron Man Parts of your argument. The thing about Iron Man is that all the things you mentioned about is true but Tony knows about it all to well. However he's trying to change that to become a better man. He knows the sins of the past and he confronts them to show that while he still has a way to go, but he's made progress from "Merchant of Death" to hero. He's the man who has strayed yet wants to be on the right path. Also I would like to add yes he did come close to death more times like at the end of the first Iron Man where he was willing to take out himself to stop Stane. Also don't forget while he did escape the Wormhole that was just luck, as even Cap himself said it was a one way trip, and every Avenger thought that that was is it for Tony. So yeah Tony has been willing to sacrifice. Lastly so nobody gets the wrong I idea I like Cap. allot, in fact he's my second favorite superhero.

[@sadlobster1]

Will Geary You make some fair and sound arguments, friend. Tony just seems...downright unlikeable to me, compared to Cap. Makes me wonder why guys like him get everything they want without any effort or consequences

[@angbandsbane]

sadlobster1 Hear hear! Using a DC example, I always said (pre New-52 at least) I relate more to Superman than Batman: grew up happy in a rural town with a loving family and morals vs. the orphaned miserable billionaire.

[@sadlobster1]

angbandsbane Wait...I thought the "parents being killed by mugger" story was present in ALL Batman incarnations

[@angbandsbane]

No, no, sorry. I mean Superman grew up in a rural town with his loving parents, that's what I relate to.

[@pixelmage7485]

This video gave me a perspective on lawful good characters. Beforehand I just associated them with representing ideals and overcoming their antagonists who represented conflicting ideals. Rather than internal character conflict, the battles of the morals were represented physically. After this video, I'm going to have to re-watch both Captain America movies and look for the internal struggles Cap goes through. Thanks.

[@AJponyAPschannel]

I like complex hero's too, but as a aspies kid, seeing some of these simpler hero's doing what was right even though they could easily do anything they wanted, inspired me to try harder to fight the urge to do whatever I wanted just because I could.

[@junglehero1274]

Josh, THANK YOU!!! This video is just plain perfect! I've always thought both the great morality heroes and the more darker ones can be just as compelling as each other, and it makes me mad when someone dismisses one in favor of the other.

[@proto245]

I love both sides of heroes but I prefer the darker ones.Cause I find them more facinating and easier to root for cause of its settings and the shit they have to go throught.I mean Daredevil and Red Hood are not in my top 10 favorite comic characters and characters of all time for nothing.

[@IceRuler]

Firebrand's head looks a bit like that of a dragon's here. Also, I agree that "Lawful Good" characters can be interesting. Their challenge is always how will they solve the problem without sacrificing their ideals, their moral. I noticed this one when playing several games like Fallout 3 where decisions and actions matter. Your own morals and ideals are put to the test in these games. Me? I always try to be "Lawful Good". Good topic, DrWolf.

[@KororaPenguin]

The real life Ten Boom family in Nazi-occupied Holland found themselves in a situation where lawful and good were irreconcilable. They gave the priority to good--screw the rules; we're doing what's right--and while they suffered (and some of them died) for it, they saved many innocent lives.

[@TehMusicalGeek]

The way I see it, these “too perfect” characters will either interest me, or bore me. It depends if they’re interesting to listen to, or faced with conflicts that make me paranoid if I'll ever be faced in that situation. You could say this video is filled with two characters acting "perfect" for the most part, but they're still interesting because of what they have to say. Others will think it's boring due to personal tastes. Then you have those preschool shows where some conflict happens, and a Mary Sue comes along and says stuff like... “You two need to share!!! Okay???” That's when I groan, and her getting new shoes dirty and crying doesn't make her any better. Sometimes people don't know what's wrong with the characters they dislike and they just use "too perfect" as a way to express what's wrong. I'm guilty of that myself.

[@missedthebandwagon976]

The art's amazing! I loved Firebrand's transformation. Yeah this has always bugged me too, I loved Celestia but so many others don't so when they see she doesn't have many flaws(Beyond being a bit of a trickster.) they make her a tyrant, or a troll/bully and and I don't get why, but all we can do is serve like you said.

[@samohtlion]

I just watched this video and it has brought up some good point and it also touched a nerve with me. But I don't think its about the lawful good this is more about being a good leader. Take a Note Captain America is part of the "Greatest Generation" the ones who worked with their family, friends, and neighbors to get through the Great Depression. Then stepped up to help the country in a time of war and make the ultimate sacrifice. He wants to do everything he can to help the little guy! Remember Captain America, is an Army Captain, he follows the orders given to achieve the objective. He is trained not to complain. If you recall a line from Tom Hanks in "Saving Private Ryan" kzbin.info/www/bejne/epK5l3ukqdyJmZYm38s That the Gripes go up not down. For Captain America and Princess Celestia who are they going to gripe to about whats on their mind? I sure if Princess Celestia was griping to Twilight that would to her feel confident about her as a leader. This is just my opinion I could be wrong.

[@johndavidtibbetts7320]

8:04 around the same time Ben Croshaw became famous, heyoooooo!

[@HubPie3]

8:05 - 8:25 *claps*

[@rayhagele]

[Standing Ovation] Amen!

[@MasterSwo]

+rayhagele Here here!

[@LupineHero]

Congrats, Doctor, you finally made it into my favorites.

[@CecilyJisi]

I always enjoy giving the fans of my Facebook page a chance to just take a listen to what you have to say, Doc. Even though plenty of them are there for video game related things and not exactly pony content (if you know what I mean), but I know that I've also developed them into being understanding and even willing to just take a few minutes and listen. and even if some choose to unlike my page simply because a pastel-colored cartoon horse program appeared in their newsfeed, then I just call it "trimming the fat". It's never fun to see fans leave simply because of a pony, but I still feel happy knowing I will still have over 3,700 fans willing to give it even one chance.

[@lightning-bliss]

Yup interesting thoughts on this topic. Granted I'm not a huge fan of super heros, I believe in real heros like those who serve our country, or those who run into burning buildings to save children or heck pets, but not so much into the TV, cartoon and comics I guess on super heros. Though I won't lie, Captain America is my least favorite because it's like he's trying to be like 'super man' to me. He's strong, couragous, just like Superman, only Superman is 100x better on the strength, durability scale, and I just feel (thanks to the movies) that Capt. tends to be a blind hipocrit of those American Citizens who represents everything that is good about our Country, when the fact is USA ain't a perfect country and...well... Maybe it's not that I don't like Captain America, maybe it's that I don't like what is going on with our country political/economy/leadership wise...and I'm just taking it out on him. But that's an entirely different topic. Super Heros though including the Capt still play a good role to our kids at least, reprsent the values of what it means to be couragous and fight for what is right. Oh and...um... Could you put me on Fire's tab when I have my next meet with you Doc? He can spare it lol!

[@Phantom1356]

First, let me just say I know I'm bringing up an old topic. By the point I'm writing this to you Miss Bliss, your comment is already over two years old and closely approaching it's third. Heck, maybe your opinions have made a total 180 by now. But I've only just come across this video, and thus I have only just come across your thoughts, and I really want to share my own. Many people who come across Captain America(and comic characters like him that wear their country's flag on their chest) believe he represents the American government, fully and blindly following orders. May think he is nothing more than a nationalistic icon, a robot that never questions orders. All simply for his name and costume. And I can admit to an outside eye that can be very polarizing. Especially in the current climate we find the U.S.A. in right now. The fact of the mater though is that Cap is the complete opposite to these 'first impressions'. He doesn't fight for the sake of the American government or out of blind loyalty. Heck, there's been plenty of times in his history where he's been at odds with the government. There's been times in his early years(after his WW2 era) that he's outright denounced his title and shield when holding onto those things mean he'd be nothing more than a puppet to those in political power. What Captain America DOES stands for, what he IS loyal to, is the common person's god-given freedoms and the high ideals that America was founded upon. He's believe in doing what's right no matter who or what opposes him, no matter the odds. He believe in standing up for those who for one reason or another can't stand up for themselves. One of my favorite moments of the character is when he said this: "Doesn't matter what the press says. Doesn't matter what the politicians or the mobs say. Doesn't matter if the whole COUNTRY decides that something WRONG is something RIGHT. This nation was founded on one principle above all else: the requirement that we stand up for what we believe, no matter the odds or consequences. When the mob and the press and the whole WORLD tells you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth and tell the whole world- 'No, YOU move.'" ...Heh, sorry. I kind of blab on when it comes to superheroes, especially the ones that I love. ^-^6 I don't even know if anyone's going to read this, but I feel better saying it. And if you DID read this Miss Bliss, I hope it helps you at the very least understand the core concept of Captain America a little more. Thank you for your time. :)

[@MysticMindAnalysis]

I find neutral good or chaotic good characters more interesting, as they defy the stereotypes as to what constitutes a "good" character to begin with. I think it all comes down to how our actions go about perfoming "goodness". If a Lawful Good Paladin finds themselves serving a tyranical king, and a chaotic good citizen incites a peasants revolt, here the Paladin has a dillemma on their hands. Do they join in with the Peasants, even though the chaotic methods go against their lawful methods? Do they quell the revolt and try to sway the king to be merciful, making the law more good? Or do they find another way to overthrow the king that doesn't involve chaos? And if so, how? In this sense, the dillema is HARDER for a lawful good character, because many of the obvious options seem to go against their typical moral compas.

[@jf8350143]

The Nightmare Rider Isn't that the point why it is more interesting to see the lawful good characters making choices? Because they have to face a hard choices and try to struggle their way out?

[@KororaPenguin]

Have you ever read _The Hiding Place_ by Corrie ten Boom?

[@MysticMindAnalysis]

@@KororaPenguin I have not.

[@KororaPenguin]

​@@MysticMindAnalysis It's the true story of a family of lawful good watchmakers who when the Nazis took over Holland decided, Screw the new rules; we're doing what's right. The hiding place of the title was where they hid a few Jews when anyone the family didn't trust came knocking.

[@humblemarty]

This made my day. It's nice to see good guy classics get shown a little love.

[@KororaPenguin]

Idealism is no less a part of realism than cynicism is.

[@BNuts]

Conflict is interesting. It's one of the most basic elements in most stories worth telling -- you can also have character-driven stories, however you need to make sure those characters are capable of carrying the plot to ensure you so much as have an audience. Many interesting characters carry their own conflicts, and many of them are also Lawful Good. *Captain America* Besides not having much in the way of superpowers, Steve Rogers (Captain America II - the original was an African American, and you can read about him in _Truth_) is also a 'man out of time.' He has to not only adjust to living in an unfamiliar time where the technology and lifestyle is different, but also social mores. He has to deal with, as ***** said, his friends and family either being aged or already being long dead. He also, for a long time, had to deal with his guilt over what had happened to Bucky, and his lost love. Burying himself in his missions and in hero work was one way he dealt with his displacement and survivor's guilt, however that could also be seen as running away from his troubles -- not something he would want others to know about, since he is an icon and symbol, and example for others to follow, and as has been proven in _Man Out of Time_, the one who holds the Avengers together. That is a _lot_ of pressure, so it's understandable that Steve is not always the Boy Scout, but he still stands for a simpler time when people did do right for right's sake. Now, I admit I do not have all the pieces in the Axis or Secret Wars storylines, let alone those that follow. I don't know what makes Rogers do what he does when he starts working more closely with Maria Hill once he loses his powers and starts ageing again, but maybe that's one thing that makes him push himself harder to do what he perceives is right -- and he's having a much harder time telling right from wrong when his friends in the Illuminati have been deceiving him and the rest of the world since before Civil War. It is all very confusing, and being flipped by Axis and losing his powers definitely didn't help any. After all that, how does one remain the symbol for all to follow? How do your successors carry on if you are unable to do so? Sam Wilson (Falcon) is now Captain America, but does he measure up? Can he be held up as an example of 'right for the sake of right?' *Superman* It's also interesting that you brought up Superman. His conflict is that he is an alien with greater powers than most other beings in his adopted homeworld, and he wants to do right by them. I relate far less to Kal-El because he's so powerful. DC has a lot of OP heroes, though each has his or her moment of vulnerability and choice. In _All-Star Superman_, Kal has to deal with a superpowered Lex Luthor, and ends up using his tactical mastery to gain an advantage over the unprepared Luthor. In _Superman vs the Elite_, Kal faces enemies he cannot defeat in a straight-out battle without compromising something he holds dear -- their his values or the lives of those he has sworn to protect. He allows his enemies to see what it would look like if he threw his morals out, but here again he uses his abilities and tactics to his best advantage. It's not just power alone, although Kal is capable of greater feats than most other heroes -- including destroying whole galaxies with a sneeze. *Spider-Man* Another Lawful Good comic character is Peter Parker (Spider-Man). Through most of his career, he has lived up to the family credo that 'with great power there must also come great responsibility,' however we have also caught glimpses of what it would be like if he did what he wanted whenever he wanted -- with the black alien suit, which later came to be known as Venom, as well as, to some degree, the short run of _Superior Spider-Man_, when Otto Octavius was Spider-Man (and it's the thought of 'what would happen if the Golden Avenger was no longer so golden?' that led to _Superior Iron Man_ and _Superior Spider-Man_). Many people are able to relate to Peter because he was so much of an underdog: a geek and social outcast, with a poor family who had suffered losses, and who always struggled financially. He had to take on whatever jobs he could to help his Aunt May make ends meet, and often had to suffer derision from those around him, not least of all his boss. He was also ridiculed at times by his enemies as well as by other heroes, and because of that he acted as Spider-Man alone for many years. But even though he resisted temptation many times, even to the point of mentoring Black Cat as a hero at some point, he recognized his limits and joined the New Avengers. Peter is one of the most experienced of Marvel's heroes, fighting beside or against most of its other characters, regardless of the fact that he is a low-tier character when it comes to power set: no flight, no energy manipulation. Just webbing, Spider Sense, and good old ingenuity and Parker luck. Yet he is the World's Greatest Hero because he persists. With great power comes great responsibility. Even in the new age of Marvel's comics, the Amazing Spider-Man continues to sling his webs. *Celestia, Luna, and Twilight* Princess Celestia is yet another great example, a monarch (or steward) who has been through a great deal, and we know very little about what those things were. _Reflections_ lets us see a possible vulnerable side of her, when she becomes so lonely and depressed that she feels the only place she can seek solace is with reflections!Sombra in another dimension. Celestia may be the one whom others raise up on a pedestal, but even she is a feeling being, and so banishing Luna (even as Nightmare Moon) obviously weighed heavily on her. It is quite possible that with each promising pupil at her school, she kept vowing not to fail like she did then. There is a fan comic that shows young Luna jumping happily about, and Celestia looking on. One panel also shows young Twilight doing the same, and while there are no words on any of the panels, it seems fairly obvious that Celestia is thinking about how she cannot fail a second time. This comic has incredible power, despite not using words, because the reader knows about this inner turmoil. *On the Moral Spectrum* White morals, black morals, grey morals. What seems the most interesting to you? Sure we, can show how certain actions are absolutely right or absolutely wrong. It's polarization, but it's not necessarily incorrect. White and black morals separates the world into good and evil, Light and Dark (Jedi and Sith). This is the way classic tales go. And then there are stories where more than one side of a conflict is 'right,' or no one is entirely right. This grey world is much closer to reality, because everyone is trying to succeed in their own way, or so I believe. Grey worlds in fiction can gather interest because they are less predictable, and so too with the politics in _A Song of Ice & Fire_, where the White-leaning Eddard Stark is the most out of place. And as Cersei put it, "in the game of thrones, you win or you die." That's an absolute vision of the world, in a world where there are few absolutes, save perhaps _valar morghulis_. Fortunately it is possible for some to straddle Light and Dark and walk the grey path. _Star Wars_ had its Jed'aii Rangers, who maintained balance between the light of Ashla and the dark or Bogan. In _Negima_, Negi Springfield makes excellent use of Dark Magic to bridge the power gap with Fate Averruncus and become powerful like his own father. In _FiM_ both Celestia and Twilight can use Dark Magic and protect themselves from being corrupted by it. It is possible to be grey, and be interesting still. Interest should have little to do with one's alignment. Most of R.A. Salvatore's novels in the Forgotten Realms follow the Drow ranger Drizzt Do'Urden. But he also wrote a trilogy that followed some of Drizzt's antagonists -- Artemis Entreri, Jarlaxle Baenre, and Athrogate -- I read them because they are interesting characters, and I continued to follow them even after their adventures linked back up to those of the Companions of the Hall. Interest and entertainment are the most important values in such stories, in my opinion.

[@KororaPenguin]

And in the MLP G1 comics Majesty walked a moral tightrope where one wrong step could make her either negligent or an out-and-out monster. I think that with the Flash Stone she would have been WORSE than Squirk, for the same reason Tolkien said that Gandalf as Ring Lord would have been worse than Sauron: Those with corrupted good intentions do even more harm than card-carrying villains or those who just plain don't give a rip, because it's easier to salve an aching conscience when you're telling yourself it's all for the greater good.

[@22Tesla]

I blame how the writers figured that "realism" meant all characters are flawed in some way, even superheroes so that became the new norm that lawful good characters became pricks cause that seemed to be "more real/more mature" which is wrong because these stories are meant to entertain and inspire. Why do kids like superheros, it's cause they are the shining image of what to strive for or to hope to be. Lawful good can exist just like every form of evil can. Did we forget that the universe has a balance? For the most evil character, in fiction or reality, there is a counter balance to that evil. The paragon of good. People saying that doesn't exist, just refuse to believe that it can.

[@ermacmacro7136]

But as times change, so do people. And eventually, the way people see our heroes also change as a result. Sure, Superman is meant to be a noble paragon who's supposed to be an inspiration to do better. But when he's always able to smile and be the ultimate solution, that's where the problem comes in. He's so righteous, that he's the penultimate deterrent because he's so strong and so hard to change his mind in any way. While that isn't the image that Superman is being portrayed as much anymore, it's the image that gets stuck into a person's mind when they think of Superman. The Big Blue Boy Scout. Batman though, people find interesting because despite the fact that he's a Billionaire, despite the fact that he's a genius, despite the fact that he's a playboy. He's still human, and he recognizes that he can make mistakes. And he has made mistakes, then learns to overcome those mistakes to stand among living gods. Batman's the pinnacle human being, but he worked through hell (mental and physical) to get to the place he is. He's cynical at times, yes. But he's most always rational, trying to logic out a solution. He figures out the best way to go about a situation, fully recognizing every angle.

[@22Tesla]

@@ermacmacro7136 Okay, fair point there between those two. Certainly also can be said about the way Captain America and Iron Man fit those two in a sense.

[@ermacmacro7136]

@@22Tesla That fits them exactly and it also exemplifies a different problem. Your version of the right thing to do may be different from my version of the right thing to do. In Civil War, that's the core divide. Tony and Steve are both stuck doing something that they respectively think is the right solution to their instigating conflict. And while both have good points, both also do morally ambiguous things to try and make the other bend the knee. Tony gets a teenager involved into what should be a dispute between adults, and Captain America becomes an international fugitive just because he's sticking to his guns on the Sokovia Accords. On top of that, both destroy an entire airport because they're both stubborn.

[@Axdyn417]

I very much enjoyed this one. I know firsthand what it's like to try to be good for the sake of good, only for others to try to hammer it into me that there's no such thing. I've tried to help many friends of mine overcome those kinds of thoughts and it's done some good according to them. And I'll continue to do so. :3 Lawful Good characters are needed, without characters like Captain America, Superman, Celestia and many others, the world would be a far more unpleasant place. Despite them being fictional, people who will listen need that hope that they represent. owo Thanks Dr. Wolf, Joshscorcher/Firebrand. :3! ---I really needed this pick-me-up on the subject.

[@Werezilla]

You know what the best part of that ending was? The fact Commander Firebrand sounds like a superhero name.

[@truebladeseeker]

Great job for both of you. Also Amazing job for Tragondor-Sliverwing with this awesome artwork.

[@madisonboone1655]

Doc, I have two things to say, the artwork in this video was amazing!!! And secondly, this video itself was great, I loved the theme of it and it really changed my point of view on these kinds of characters. Keep up the good work 👍🏻🏆

[@Fernando7575US]

This is seriously relatable to alot of people, myself included. I personally don't like mary sues (that boast that they're on the summit), but when they have an inner conflict like celestia, they become very relatable and likeable, if one is willing to give a deeper look into them. And that's probably why she's one of my favorite characters: She wants the best for all of her subjects despite having her own personal conflicts. This was a very intriguing video. Great job!

[@sjrmac3]

The thoughts you posed in this video are ones I share, and the ending is just hilarious!! Love it!!

[@faeryb0mb]

Steve was a small sickly boy from Brooklyn. He was chosen for the super soldier project because he wouldn’t let that strength go to his head. Unlike the musclehead guy from the training camp. Also. He lost Bucky, his best friend in the world, right in front of him at least three times now. Steve broke so many rules because in his heart he knew it was the right thing to do. (Sokovia accords, forging papers to get into the military, etc). After reading this if you still think Cap is a perfect character. Actually fight me on the playground.

[@BlizzardofKnives]

A big difference between Superman and Captin America is risk. The former is so hard to kill on a day to day basis that taking the high road doesn't put them in additional danger, where as Captin America (MCU version), well I'll quote the Winter Soilder trailer. "The price of freedom is high, and it's a price I'm willing to pay". I think Celestia is a bit different, a super-parent if you will, and I bet we've all gone through that realisation that our parents aren't perfect. Add to that our eras' cynical inclinations, and some see a character like her and think there must be a dark side we aren't being shown.

[@hariman7727]

Superman's risk, and burden, is that he COULD be a nigh unstoppable dictator, and he COULD kill anyone with a few seconds of heat vision, or just by flying close and clapping hard enough. But he doesn't, and he won't. Because he was raised properly, with a firm grasp of not only good and evil, but also that he SHOULD do right and good because he has the power to do so. Captain America is similar, though not as physically tough. Cap is more of a juxtaposition that he IS the "Ubermensch" the Nazi's wanted, but he chooses to do good and lead by example because he was raised properly too. Celestia... yeah. People want to see her flaws, and her less perfect side. But, especially before seasons 6 and 7, fans had little to go on, and there's a VERY nasty streak in fandoms to make everything grimdark and horrible and evil and bleah. Personally, I'm rather sick of that negative shit. I go the opposite route and make crossovers that bring happiness to otherwise dark worlds. Like Winnie the Shepherd. The crossover of Winnie the Pooh and Mass Effect, that turns all the conflicts of Mass Effect into cute antics in the 100 Acre Galaxy. Even the Geth/Quarian war becomes a mother/son conflict between momma Quarian Kanga and her son, the little Geth Roo. Also, Rabbit is "The surliest of Krogan", thought still generally harmless and just VERY grumpy! ;D

[@Torterra625]

Ya know... I think I'd actually place Cap as my favorite Avenger over Iron Man. And I think if you look at the small glimpses of Steve's backstory before he enlisted, you'll see why he is the person he is. Think about it, he was a sickly kids growing up in Brooklyn, both his parents died and he probably got bullied and beaten up often. Yet he STILL chose to enlist in order to serve his country despite many individuals, including his best friend, telling him he wasn't cut out for it. He wanted to be able to make sure that others would live happy and peaceful lives, something that he was deprived of. And to me, that's a pretty good example of why a soldier should serve: to keep others save at the cost of their own safety. Side note: I now no longer respect Josh as he’s apparently a Republican apologist for people like Scott Cawthon.

[@KororaPenguin]

And compared to the other superhero origin movies of his time, Cap's was a breath of fresh air--he already HAD the sense of duty.

[@kalmastari]

*standing ovation* Thank you, Dr. Wolf and FireBrand for such an inspiring video. It really made my day to see a vid that appreciated lawful good characters instead of tearing them down.

[@primroan5354]

I think saying characters like Captain America have no place in stories is a bit silly. He's a valuable member of the team, and it would suffer without him. That said, I'm afraid I can't come down on the side of lawful good characters, or Captain America. In Skyrim, there is a character who has a quote that has become one of my favorites when it comes to fiction and writing. It goes: "What is better, to be born good? Or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?" I'll spin that to ask, "What is better for a character?" Or to narrow it down even further, "What makes a character more compelling?" Well, I think the answer is simple. It's the latter, because the latter is a source of conflict. Remember when The Avengers were all arguing on the helicarrier in the first movie? Remember what Cap said to Stark? "The only thing you really fight for is yourself. You're not the guy to make the sacrifice play. To lay down on the wire and let the other guy crawl over you." What Cap is referring to is who Tony Stark *was.* And we know that, because we've seen it. In the first Iron Man movie, that described Tony to a T. But what happens in Avengers? He does make the sacrifice play. He does something to save all those people at the cost of himself. This is huge because it's _narrative payoff_. It's meaningful because we remember when he wouldn't have done that. We've seen it. We've been on that journey, so we experience it with him. Now compare that to Cap... you can't. Part of what makes "lawful good" characters is that they are THE good guys/girls. They are straight paragons of virtue and justice. They have very little room to change as a character. This is not to say they can't have their own problems. Yet... when appear, they're almost always the same type. They experience what was described in the video. A crisis of morality and faith. That tends to get old after a while. Another problem with these characters is that things are so black and white. We're in an age where people like nuance. People like morally gray. That's just the way it seems to be. Unfortunately with a lawful good character, you're not likely to get many good villains. No villains with morally gray intentions, who might be sympathetic or might have a point. There's no room for that, because the hero is unwaveringly GOOD. Which means the villain always has to be 99.99% in the wrong, with very little wiggle room. It's the same thing with Celestia and Luna. The way they are presented in the show now (As in S3-S5) is actually very similar. Luna is very formal, very good in her intentions, clearly royal, and likes to guide her subjects so they can learn themselves. That's pretty much how Celestia has always been. Yet it resonates more with Luna... why? It's because of "Luna Eclipsed." Like Tony in the first IronMan movie, we remember when Luna couldn't do these things. We remember when she wasn't formal, and she couldn't even communicate properly. As to the real life comment. Yeah, it's very rare to have such paragons in your life. I've never had any. Life just isn't black and white, and it certainly isn't simple. That's just how it is.

[@SigHoovestrong]

Prim Roan Dunno if got point they were making. But yes that saying is true. But think most adfish of this topic was mainly fouch. Are Lawful Good Characters is bad for story narrative. And think not. Think Lawful Good Character and be as fun as watching Chaotic Evil one. For different reasons of course.

[@dragnergrifeene]

Prim Roan I dunno that a villain always has to be purely evil in the face of a paragon. In the example of Captain America, look at the Civil War; his rival in that was Tony Stark. Stark wasn't inherently evil in that story line, and some of Cap's allies didn't behave inherently good, either. Which side was right and which side was wrong was a gray area, although Cap ultimately decides that his side was WRONG (even though a lot of comic readers didn't really agree with that conclusion, heh...) So there, our paragon of justice was not inherently good, apparently. I would also point to the fist Captain America movie, and the kind of life Steve Rogers started out with. He was small, weak, and unfit for service, even though he desperately wanted to join. He's also an awkward dork with Agent Carter. Through it all, what makes him a paragon of justice is his desire to do the right thing, and to me, it's refreshing to have that character in the cynical world that we live in (a popular reason a lot of bronies have for watching My Little Pony; relief from a cynical world. Eh, eh?) I agree that usually, the anti-hero has a bit more of an interesting character arc, but I don't think that same story has to be told every time with a lawful good hero. I think character flaws can exist for a character, but that they can still be unselfish and self-sacrificing, even at their introduction.

[@SigHoovestrong]

And this way confrontations between different characters are interesting to watch. Everyone have there goals and dream. There morality. There View of the world as hole. However think this common section seem be Focusing on Captain only. Hope people realizing he was just as an example to touch on a bigger topic. In wise way we see characters being good or bad by quality of how you can relating to them. However me myself don't always get found of character cause they relating alone. I also be inspired by character too. That inspire me to be better they i am. And other character make thing about life as a hole. Giving my great idea and cons-apt i perilously didn't even comprehend before. Well might over thinking it and going way about my level of begin able explain myself well. But bottom line is. That like see all colors of rainbow and colors of dusk and dawn. In all variants sades and colors. And this people saying there no wort in character cause it i sent relating to you. Well i think that will make for hug decline in variation of character i say. And the rainbow will eventually just become more gray and dull. For ever passing year. This is my fear...

[@matthewdinode]

Prim Roan I do see your point. I have read several FanFics where Sunset Shimmer is trying to learn how to be good and have friends when all she has ever known was hate, and it makes her triumph in Rainbow Rocks that much more meaningful. However, I don't think that was the sort of situation Josh was complaining about. Sunset was still trying to be a lawful good character but had some trouble releasing old habits and ideas, Josh was referring to those versions of characters who don't try. They're alcoholic and it doesn't bother them, they fight crime out of vengeance and never feel guilt, they hop between girlfriends/wives without trying to make it work, it's like a character in this day and age has to always have some imperfection and can never be fixed. The main difference between the improving character and the lawful good one is that we only see the lawful good character after they have reached the goal, so to speak. Even then, the lawful good character still has to struggle to keep on the straight and narrow. They even talk about it in the video, you are right that the world is morally grey, but an already grey character can just quickly pick a side and without worry, a lawful good one can neither afford to wait nor pick wrong, which is a sort of struggle that we can relate to.

[@primroan5354]

Matthew Steiner First of all I really don't like how they term it "lawful good." That sort of jargon is used in the D&D alignment system. It's used there and is integrated into other systems controlled by a dungeon master to effect gameplay and narrative choices. I don't particularly care for it being used outside of that. It's not really suited to it. And part of the reason why I don't like it is because it lacks nuance. Most good characters in fiction would be "true neutral" anyway. If we were to sit down and break apart the actions of all good characters most would end up somewhere in the middle. Imperfections are what make us people. I don't understand why people have such a problem dealing with this. We're friends and get along with other people DESPITE that. The avengers work as a unit despite their differences. What Josh likes are paragon characters. Celestia and Cap are both that. They are extremes. And most good fiction treats them as such. With all the good and bad that comes with it.

[@amosanon8788]

It's funny, when I watched this video, the first character that popped into my head was saitama from "one punch man".

[@RandomPopcultureNewsFreak]

Omg I really liked how this artist's Silverwing did this anime art style of you guys oc's Dr wolf not bad at all. As far as the avengers go,iron man and quick silver along with scarlet witch were the best heroes and villains in that film!

[@SoulShady12]

VERY well done, the both of you! I enjoyed this video, and thanks to this, I took a test to find out which alignment I would be in. I'm in Neutral Good... and I am not surprised. I like all that you've said in this, and agree to all you said... But I have to say one thing here. Maybe the people that say "Lawful Good" Characters are bad are saying it because... They fear them, and don't like the thought of characters being so thorough with being Perfect, that They will be forgotten and left to the wayside. And the character's THEY love will become nothing more than background noise, and the people who Praise Lawful Good characters will forget the there are more characters than the ones they praise. Or if they know of them, they won't give as much interest of learning about them as others may like them to. I don't know, maybe I'm thinking in a wrong direction here, but I'm willing to hear thoughts on this theory here. Yours Sincerely, SoulShady12 (Edward, A.k.a. the Soul Ninja Star) P.s. That last bit there. ROFL!!! That was AMAZING! Still laughing to it now. Thank you both and the artist for doing that.

[@lucarianscout]

So many designs for Dr. Wolf...This one has to be the most epic, in my opinion.

[@RedDragonForce2]

Funny thing. Most heroes can be summed up the easy way by way of Spiderman's famous quote from his Uncle Ben: With Great Power, comes Great Responsibility. This is something anyone can follow, but to truly be idealistic in a world where realism scares the populace into taking it as the norm, the Idealistic is suddenly Fantasy and UNrealistic. And there's a distinct difference to that. I agree with Firebrand, a hero who goes for the 'ideal' of being a pure hero, just for the sake of being unselfish and wanting to help others because they care is definitely a 'lawful good', since they have no ulterior motives for wanting to stop crime or evil in general. It's not unlike those wanting to become Police Officers and Special Agents. They want to help others and stop those that seek to take what isn't theirs. To transition into a semi-unrelated topic, the Fifth Generation of Pokemon covers the concept of Ideals vs Truth rather well, at least the first set of games. In the end, whichever game you play decided which Legendary Pokemon you receive: The one that represents truth or the one that represents Ideals. I've seen many people and fans choose Reshiram over Zekrom, Truth over Ideals, and this can correlate into the topic at hand. To be a 'lawful good' character is to persue an Ideal that you want as to be eventually accepted as a truth that can be achieved. It's not just Superman, Captain America, or even Celestia. It's many different heroes throughout the multiverse we call fiction. Even in nonfictional settings (or rather realistic fictional settings), where history is being given to us with a grain of salt. The American Revolution, the Civil War, The World Wars, and those are just the main ones. Who is good and who is evil is defined by the world as to their motivations. WW2 had it easy, where Nazis (and by some extension Hydra in Marvel) sought to rid the world of those they thought imperfect. The world saw the mass genocide and those that disagreed sought to stop them. History has never had a clear good and evil side when it comes to morals, and those that believe in their convictions believe themselves to be good. Idealist, but good. When it comes to Truth vs. Ideals, I choose Ideals because it's something you need to strive for, you need to put forth the effort to truly reach and make it a truth. That's why heroes embody the ideals, to motivate others into making it a truth, that it IS achievable, and that it IS doable. It's not impossible, but probable for those who choose to take that path. Thanks for reading... Later, RDF2

[@zorokicksass60]

This is really hard and tough to bring up. Good subject to talk about, thank you drwolf and firebrand. Like has been said, there is hard to believe that there are still good ideals or people who stand for them and good choices since there is no hope left in the world. There is so much unfairness, hate and horrible things we see, hear or experience everyday. There is almost no way people can believe in that there is good anymore. Especially for the people, which drwolf mentioned, never had anyone to be there and "save" them. There can't be anyone in real life that is a lawful good character, that always does the right thing and the best choices, always stand for truth, justice, honor. If there is none in real life, then the people portraying them in fiction can't be real or "believable". Everyone has to have an dark side and has to show it, at some point. Like applejack, These people "cries on the inside" and stands strong for others. Service is the greatest form of spreading good. STOP thinking about your miserable life and issues and problems And go and help someone else, so both of you get better. That person since you ease their situation, but also you since you forget yopur miserable situation. And that's my take on it. Iäm out

[@Elfos64]

I don't think it's so much that the characters are unrealistically perfect that's the issue so much as the characters are unbalanced. Captain said "let's just say you haven't seen my dark side yet", implying that he has one, yet we don't really see it. Also, Josh talked about "doing the right thing simply because it's the right thing to do", but the thing is the right thing to do isn't clear-cut. To quote Wan Shi Tong from Avatar Last Airbender: "you think you're the only ones to be fighting a just war?" One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. I disagree with Josh's claim that it was clearer once upon a time. I don't think there was ever a time when it was a simple clear-cut matter of right and wrong. Sure, the Nazis were doing terrible things and needed to be stopped, but they mostly did it because of unfair conditions of the treaty of Versailles, they had every right to be upset about it. Even ignoring their reasons, not everything that came from the war was bad, the war is the reason Albert Einstein and Werner Von Braun came to America, among many others. People may think they're doing good, and maybe to some degree they are, but right and wrong are never completely objective. The way I choose to phrase it is "there's no such thing as right versus wrong, only definitely wrong versus significantly less wrong".

[@xaldinwolfgang]

I love the Art work done on this video and I was funny when Commander Firebrand turn into a super hero and flew threw the wall LOL. But I do know what you mean Josh about people not thinking of good charters and it kind of reminds me of when Nostalgia Critic talks about Tobey Maguire Spiderman and he prefers the amazing Spiderman charter just because of specific reasons.

[@NarnianGriff23]

Thank you for putting into words what I've been feeling/trying to say for year.

[@leshyaedawnfire]

I love style of artwork here, and Firebrand's exit had me cracking up. That said, it was the message of this video that really got me, because, I actually try to do that as much as possible, for both animals and people. Just last week, a chickadee stunned itself flying into a door at work, and I put it in an open box and moved it to a shady location so he could safely recover. When I came back to check on him, he'd already flown away. Just remembering that makes me feel good inside. My therapist has said that I am a naturally kind person, and I do my best to live up to that. My personal motto is, if I have made someone smile, it's a good day.

[@jf8350143]

My theory is that people don't feel the inner struggle of these characters. Most people doesn't share the same morale standard as Superman or Captain America, so when these characters making a choices that are hard for them, most of the audiences doesn't see the point of their struggle. In their eyes these choices are all acceptable which makes the whole conflict become simply pointless. Some other people could understand the conflict but have a hard time to relate to it. And when audience can't feel or relate to the conflict the story gets very boring because there is no tension.

[@rebeccaliar9873]

On the subject of the video topic, awesome discussion. On the subject of the art style, Doctor Wolf has never looked more attractive.

[@alohalyon6643]

How many times has his office been destroyed now? At least I know why Dr. Wolf has so many different offices. Still, it made me laugh.

[@aubriem1944]

This was very inspirational. Great job, you guys. (And funny ending!)

[@Benicthehedgehog]

lol XDDDDD ok I love DRWolf's videos of his character talking to others about problems are awsome, but this one had a Fiery Joker feel in its ending to add something funny that people would not see coming. bravo Josh and DRWolf. also I saw you two doing Heroes of the Storm together with Ink and Teric and I think you guys make a great team together on that game.

[@hariman7727]

Superman Vs The Elite, and it's original comic version, What's So Funny About Truth Justice And The American Way? are FANTASTIC examples of the best side of Superman, and why he's such a great example of a true hero. I think that there's been a cultural push to tear down perfection, and to sully everything with the "relatable" negative qualities, and darkness, because they learn and are taught that nothing is perfect or sacred. There's a lot of cynicism being force fed into the culture via hollywood and other media too.

[@littlekuribohlover72]

I love Firebrand. He's the kind of person I aspire to be. He is funny, moral, and hardworking. Go on Mr. Burner!

[@DoodleDabble]

That's been one of my struggles/curiosities lately. The majority of analysts call for a relatable character, but the ones who are admirable aren't as... Well... Admired. I was even putting together some research for this topic XD it got to the point that I felt as if I couldn't even give my OC any good qualities because she would be a Mary Sue and not "relatable" enough. I saw an article about how we need characters different than us and ideals for us so we can assess our differences and for us to have something to shoot for. I think the beef with modern good is based on the diminished belief in an ultimate good. This can either be through a waning American belief in religion or the waxing admiration of skepticism. Wanting to be good is seen as childish sometimes- people want to see the "badass", for lack of a better term. Now, it's like American Idol- you need an emotionally scarring backstory to get people on your side. I tend to parallel Captain America with the 50's favorite kind of character and Iron Man as the modern favorite.

[@CuppaLLX]

When i wrote SMG this was kind od the key point behind Aurora, shes the leader of the team and need to support and inspire them especially when the new member is thrust into the team suddenly and has their life, identity and even gender turned upside down, the new girl even has parts of her personality overwritten but her Father and Aurora seem like (on the surface) these one dimensional perfect character untill we take a closer look at them and realize how much they keep hidden and never break because they are the lights that shine in the darkness around them even as the darkness eats away at them from inside. In essese as they shine the light for the world they NEED someone to be the light to guide them but by their nature they can't ask someone else

[@hindae085]

I agree with the Doc on this. Some find it hard to relate to Lawful Good because in this day and age, there isnt much Lawful Good around. And when you then see the Cap doing good because its right, its a foreign concept.

[@GameCommandos14]

The reason people don't like lawful good characters is that the media that are celebrated since the 80's were deconstructions of them.Take Frank Millar's interpretation of Batman and Superman for example. Batman was viewed as a character that would go outside the law to do a good deed. Stopping crime. While Superman was viewed a stoodge for the government, an awful one at that. Another example is the Watchmen series. A series that turned the superhero concept on it's head, making the heroes more "interesting" by having them do the wrong thing at the end. The good news is that this view is slowly dying out with the popularity of the Marvel movies, which has the majority of the cast both good and interesting.

[@KidSnivy69]

I'm thankful its waning, don't get me wrong they can be interesting characters to read and watch, but I Aldo find it fun to read and watch heroes being good (which can be the harder option) because its not everyone does that

[@jorgearias6455]

I agree.

[@WeirdTale]

Daniel Van Dyke Ignoring the the insane man know as the "Miller". Alan Moore's Watchmen was meant to be a death sentence to the Superhero genre. Showing just how twisted it becomes once it's applied to reality. Long story short Allan Moore regrets that it triggered the Dark Age of Comic-Books, something that he regrets to this day.

[@TD_NULL]

What an amazing video! It addresses all of mu concerns with how people react to lawfully good characters. I am a big fan of superman, even somewhat of a fan of captain america. Their strive to do what is right is inspiring and cool. I don't understand why people think that just trying to do the right thing is bad in comic book characters? It is not like they don't struggle with their inner demons and it is present in their stories. They are not boyscouts or mary sues that just get a free pass when they do the right thing. People are going to question their actions or even feel threatened with the amount of power they have. And people who say that superman is OP or he is so unrealistic because of all these powers, despite the fact that they aren't looking at thor, hulk, silver surfer, martian manhunter, green lantern, etc. aren't getting the point of his story. It is a story of inspiration to do the right thing and to overcome any conflict. And it isn't like they are perfect either. Captain America and even Superman have done some unethical things to them (Ex. Superman has been forced to killed Doomsday, by ripping him in half, to protect the people he loves). Man of Steel was good representation of this. While the movie wasn't perfect, it clearly shows an unexperienced superman trying to fight and overcome evil and try to do the right thing, while also having to do what is necessary (killing zod *spoilers*). And it isn't like I hate dark characters, cause I love Batman and I like seeing how he deals with his struggles from a different perspective and method. It is just that people need to respect characters like superman and captain america more. Again, love the video.

[@The0ptimus]

DAYUM Doctor Wolf, either you've grown 10 feet, or Firebrand has shrunk to 1/6 his regular size 0.0

[@ashtoncollins1534]

+The0ptimus agreed

[@xinrickdragon9198]

Two things....one I understand where Firebrand is coming from....it's just hard to do things when sometimes things are so inbetween it's not even funny...and two I love the artwork on this one. I like this version of Dr.Wolf a lot more in my opinion.

[@voltaicdrake5968]

Interesting. I do share a good portion of your thoughts Josh. Lawful good characters can be interesting and compelling, and heroes and role models that constantly strive to do the right thing because it's the right thing DO exist in real life. Unfortunately, those people are more of rarity in this day and age due largely to the fact that evil and problems and morally ambiguous people have more coverage and more influence in society. I feel many people who say they can't relate or that they dislike lawful good characters may actually dislike these characters because seeing characters always strive to do the right thing can make them feel inadequate when they look back at themselves. Instead of seeing them as an ideal to strive for, they see them as agents of their condemnation, judging them and pointing out their flaws. I think a lot of that can relate to a person's refusal to change. I will say, it can be very difficult to write stories for lawful good characters because the struggles they face can only be solved morally. Sacrifice a few to save the many? For a lawful good character that choice is almost impossible to make and often to go around it writers create a deus ex machina option for the character to save everyone. And as a result most stories revolve around outside forces causing problems and the writers exclude the stories that can place the blame/responsibility on the lawful characters. That doesn't mean a lawful character can't make mistakes, and the stories that revolve around those mistakes and the character's attempts to resolve and atone for them often make for the best ones because people can really learn from and come to trust character's that can openly admit to their failings and fix them.

[@elgostine]

this discussion immediately makes me think of littlepip from fallout equestria shes a lawful good hero for sure however she constantly struggles with the oppressive nature f the wasteland and the endless cruelty and violence that seems to overwhelm all that try and to fight it... asnd littlepip has other struggles too, namely her addiction to drugs and her temporary fall from grace at arbu... she also struggles with the fact of what she needs to do inorder to survive she feels that she is the ''corrupted' version of the element of kindness she realises she is meant for a far greater putrpose in the end however the story very deeply looks into her mission and all her tiny little falls, both internally and externally... which is why i love the character so much.. the fact the stor is so huge helps a lot meaning theres a LOT of time to explore the characters and their growth instead of rushing things

[@vamplestat666]

Well we should mention that in smallville when young Clark developed x-Ray vision, one of the first things he did was aim those peepers at the girls locker room

[@spideyviewer327]

I do find Captain America to have some relatable traits. But I see him less relatable and more someone you can look up to. Y'know, those characters who aren't SUPPOSED to be relatable but you can look up to and aspire towards them

[@Woodsstories]

Great video, interesting art style, and don't worry about this office Doc, you have a bunch of others.

[@Tekdruid]

This really got me thinking. My favorite heroes have always been those that are themselves somehow flawed or "broken": Tony Stark who despite his heroics can be rude, condescending and callous. Princess Luna, who while being a genuinely good pony at heart and a force for good in the world, is still tormented by her... *past sins* , as it were, and can seem intimidating and judgmental. Even Dr. Gregory House, M.D., who is a misanthropic, caustic, and sometimes downright malevolent character and really only a hero in that he can cure patients with rare medical conditions where others have failed. I tend to see them as more realistic and relatable than, say, the Cap or Superman or Celestia who have no apparent flaw or weakness. (Although in Celestia's case, the obvious grief and regret she feels for having had to banish her sister makes her feel more, well ... *human* .) I guess that has to do with my experience and view of the world where the good is so often intertwined with or even overcome by the bad. Now that I've heard Firebrand's point of view, though, I think I can agree with it; that these lawful good character are not just impossibly perfect Mary Sues, but can instead represent something that we can take inspiration from and strive towards. They can serve as an example for us to be good and do good. I think this sentiment is beautifully exemplified in Dr. Wolf's catchphrase: *"It's good to be helping."* I'll try to do more of exactly that in the future, if only I can find a way to contribute somehow.

[@LanceTheAutobot]

I am happy to say that i fit into this catogory ( arrogant as it may sound ) i always try and do the good thing just because i can and if i mess up i try to fix it to the best of my abilitys

[@starwars90001]

I think it's this idea that lawful good characters don't exist is the problem, nowdays people search for any reason why a hero is just as bad as the villain, it's all over the place even on youtube. You find videos about how Mario's the villain, or celestria's a tyrant, or batman's a horrible person for using violence to save people. It's this bring characters down to your level mind set.

[@whitefireatlas2330]

You must had a ton of fun with this one. Very enjoyable

[@monkeykingw]

You know, before I was in the camp where the "Goodie goods" were my least favorite type of character. I always prefered Anti-heroes and villains. But with videos like this and Linkara's Holy Terror, my perspective has honestly changed. People have said that there's no point in arguing on the internet because people's opinions won't change and some believe if you do changing your mind because of someone else, you're just a sheep following the herd. But no, that would be wrong.

[@doctorsphoenix4681]

Captain Absolutely is one such character. Fighter for Truth, Justice, and a lot more Truth!

[@thecleaninglady8421]

I would also argue that people feel guilty, when they see people or characters that hold themselves up to a much higher standard than most other people and therefore it makes them feel uncomfortable. I believe in many cases it can often be a form of jealously, like when you see a person who thinks their sibling considers themselves better than them, because they are more generous and as a result do a lot of charity work or have a better work ethic and therefore they tend to get higher grades than they do. As a result, they are more interested in characters being 'relatedable' rather than a role mode, because it helps them avoid the uncomfortable feeling of being around someone who strives to better themselves and the world around them in a way that they themselves do not.

[@mordredoberson7305]

definitely the archetype I believe to not only reflect upon but also somehow connect with, I often spend alot of time wondering if I'm doing the right thing though and I think it's causing a lot of undue stress but stress is and can be good depending on how you look at it as well as the way you handle it (which at times can be the same thing) also while having certain characters in a darker or otherwise different light can be interesting, it can be a bit problematic to see because honestly, it just does not fit in the natural flow of things, sure it might make sense to see it in an alternate universe but, it just makes the actual struggle seem pointless and biased like everything is suddenly against them and I know it's not meant to be that but it seems like an almost constant torture to go through. in a way, all I can say is it's just sad almost.

[@julzchan2.030]

This really hit home for me. I can't agree with you more Firebrand.

[@BrianRandomVA]

First of all, I love the artwork done on this video. Very well done! Secondly, I’ve been nodding my head all the way through this video because I agree with the whole thing, and I think it covers a lot of things up. I’ve been seeing some criticism towards the said characters, about how ‘boring, unrealistic and one-dimensional’ they were. How about how inspiring, do good for the sake of doing something good and such? They too show realistic values. I truly believe that in real life, guys like Captain America do exist. But boy, what an era we’re living in. A number of people I know and noticed just don’t see it that way and always think that everyone has a dark side, get suspicious and all that. I can’t seriously blame them cos there are bad folks all over the place. Fact. Concerning critics being harsh on the said characters, they’re entitled to their opinions but do they always have to go on the negatives? Still, they can be changed anytime. Like Dr. Wolf does, go along the lines of ‘It’s good to be helping’. I, myself, have been going by the motto, ‘Do the right thing’, like helping someone in trouble, give to charity, etc., etc. And I’m going to be carrying on with that and hope that many others do the same. Finally, Happy 4th July, my American friends. Now, if you excuse me, I’m off spread some righteous justice, knock some heads and break some 4th walls. **Gets dressed with red and black spandex and blue leather jacket, arming myself with twin katanas (MAINLY used on robots), handguns (Don’t worry, they’re filled with tranquiliser darts... I think), and a kryptonite-made life bar (Only used for evil Superman...s, giant monsters and robots, huge walls, and huge quantities of minions (especially little yellow ones))** Let’s rock, baby! **Epically shoots at your screen** Oh, wait. Wrong ammo.

[@ddraigtantoixeniejir5964]

As someone who very much enjoys the Lawful Good type of character, this is VERY interesting to me. :)

[@BrickBoy1894]

Superman is my favorite superhero, for similar reasons why Cap is a great, "Lawful Good" character. But, the best portrayal of Superman was in at least the first 2 Richard Donner films, with Christopher Reeve.

[@Bluemansonic]

also thank you Firebradn and DR Wolf for being lawful good in this world...I am too

[@krzysztofdabrowski9399]

The animation is incredible in this one!

[@somerandomginger9938]

I laughed so freaking hard at the ending XD

[@Takisan111]

Truth Talk Tuesday For him it's quite fitting.

[@fablegenettle5064]

Think I'm growing a powerful appreciation for the opinions Firebrand puts onto the table. At the end of the day, the world needs more real life examples who strive to make the right choice even when faced with something they could potentially get away with that would benefit them in the end but still harms others because boy, many people I've known have slipped into that temptation. I've personally lost a lot of trust in other people making a choice that is least likely to harm other people or choosing the morally better option. More often than not? People will pick something that'll protect them, earn them more money or keep a partner around despite abusive behavior, so on and so forth. It's a relief to not only hear someone talking about this but to be clearly angry because it bothers him that much.

[@GreycatRademenes]

I have an interesting story to share that might shed some light on this phenomenon. When I was in college one of our earlier classes involved our class to make an association 3 (in short you take 10 words related to the topic, then you make the next level by associating 2 adjacent words and so on until you reach 1 word) I believe when we got to 2 words they were something like "success" and "" and while all of us were very positive during this, suddenly a lot of people had a 180 and started proposing words like "unrealistic" or "fantasy". In psychology it's called expectation overflow, it happens when people are faces with a potential outcome that might seems literally to good to be true, or too hard to achieve thus they opt to either dismiss it, choose the less difficult option or call it impossible. It's basically the minds way to cope with to high self expectation (the mind acts as if it was to climb a very steep and high mountain) that's sometimes accompanied with the dismissal of those who did achieve such feats (insert the aliens built the pyramids cause the egyptians were to stupids to do it themselves). Personally I'm all the way with Firebrand. While I like Tony stark more, in that I see more of my own flaws and like to make stuff, Captain America is still one of my favorite character ever. He's not perfect, he goes through a lot because he saw a lot of bad things happening (not only WWII, but also his youth in 20' New York) and he wants it to stop. Same goes with Superman. A lot of people don't get Superman and I admit I was one of those people until someone showed me some GOOD superman material. (Best Superman thing - Superman vs The Elite, watch it NOW!). I've had good and bad things happening to me, yet I want to to do good myself. My personal motto is "The world is a sucky place, you can only make it better or worse, I prefer better." On the side note, despite the Superman theme, Firebrands costume reminds me more of Marvels Hyperion.

[@amandapanda3138]

I think more people should see this because I I have always tried to be "lawfully good", and I think I have succeed, but I can still look up to people like Elizabeth Caddy Stanton(A women's suffrage leader). I am currently in high school and I struggle to get A's, but I always try harder, and when I'm older I will try to help other people who have lots of disabilities or very little like me and improve the special ed system so that kids who have profound disabilities will not have to struggle quite as much as me. I can only read as well as a second-grader entering second grade and spell much worse, so it takes me a long time just to write something like this. And because of me my school system is trying to make changes to help the kids like me even though I'm a lost cause to them.

[@WritersBlockFist]

It's hard to help others when the "Super Friends" won't let you join their club because your not popular enough to help and if you do it on your own, then you're in the wrong and shall be ostracized. Life isn't fair and no one should expect it to be. But, doing the right thing should not be a punishment. It should be a reward and when society says otherwise, then you start to understand why hero's turn into anti-hero's or villains and why folks relate more to them. I do like Superman and respect the idea behind him and I think we need him and more folks like him, but society wants more Batman's running around doing the dirty work so society can feel better about itself about being "the untainted good guys," then condemn the pariah's to maintain that oh so good image. Got to love people and the wonky things they come up with. Honestly, what does popularity have anything to do with helping folks!

[@BaldurPrime]

nice video, thanks doc, this is the first time i see a doctor wolf bigger than the guest.........thanks for all,

[@josepharmstrong1788]

I like 'lawful good' characters for all the reasons you gave to like them. In fact, with all the 'lawful good' characters and Mister Rodgers in my life, I can say that I have only encountered two 'Mary Sues' and both of them fit more in the category of 'pawns for the plot'. In fact, I'm looking at my own fan fiction and realizing that I do in fact have two 'lawful good' characters. The first is a Hydreigon who's strength, powers and attack range could best be described as Smogon's worst nightmare. Her biggest challenge/fear is going on a ballistic rampage and injuring those she loves since she doesn't quite have a grip on her powers. Next is Rayquaza, I don't think any further explanation is needed. But I'll give some anyway. In the games and comics, Rayquaza is always built up as this great benevolent guardian that everyone adores only to reveal that it's kind of an aggressive jerk. Growing sick of that, I decided that in this series Rayquaza does indeed have strengths that everyone fears and the delta emerald dragon knows of but would rather settle things as peacefully as possible. Rayquaza knows everyone views it as the greatest thing ever and strives for that. That's how I'm approaching this. Yes I know people will point out Ice and Fairies are these two's big weaknesses like Superman with Kryptonite. To that I say, Ice and Fairies don't take away their powers and that is not their true fight.

[@SoddingUsername]

I always know it's a good AMWDW when I find myself trying to interject. ^^

[@syabilaazri7834]

yeah... i understand what josh having here. its like if you say you like episode power ponies even everyone say it the worst episode ever. everyone do have there own way to see cartoon

[@dejaypage1575]

I'm with you, Josh. Honestly even BATMAN is lawful good. Is he angsty? At times, but I don't like that being his defined trait. THATS Flanderization. People don't get that some just like helping people. It helps them feel good, like they are helping someone have a better day.