Dry Steering

[@jangajunga7839]

3:07 that honesty of yours is what I like!!! Thumbs up

[@briandouglas5098]

Richard. It’s refreshing to hear someone put things in a proper perspective. Like being in a Swamp surrounded by crocodiles, and someone asks what the water temperature is. Too much emphasis on irrelevant insignificant details that only add to the already confusing information being disseminated by The Driving Instruction community. PS: I’m a retired Helicopter and Fixed Wing Instructor Pilot.

[@Asto508]

As far as I know, dry steering is not a problem with modern tires. It used to be a problem decades ago where tires had more simple rubber material, but nowadays, tires have more complex material which prevents a great deal of wear caused by dry steering. Also, when you drive in cities you will HAVE to dry steer in a lot of parking situations simply because parking space is scarce and people tend to park a lot tighter. No choice anyways.

[@ConquerDriving]

Agreed, trying to avoid dry steering is just an unnecessary complication.

[@V_For_Vigilante]

Another reason why old cars are objectively garbage

[@CDBC]

It's not a tire issue. It's the unnecessary stress on all the mechanical components that should be avoided. That, and the idea of learning to aim your car properly as a funamental skill that every instructor should know how to teach.

[@Asto508]

@@CDBC Since the tires aren't binding that much, there is not more mechanical stress involved in comparison to steering hard while driving. It's all about the tires

[@CDBC]

@@Asto508 I cannot agree, sorry! Sit in your car with the motor off, and see how much effort it takes to even move the steering wheel a few degrees. If the car is heavy enough, it will actually be impossible. Now, try getting that vehicle rolling with the motor off (such as on a hill with nobody around). Voila! You can move the steering wheel back and forth with MUCH LESS EFFORT. Therefore, it's less stressful on all the suspension/steering mechanism. I've never argued that it's the tires that will get worn out prematurely by dry steering.

[@GR-kn7mt]

The first 2 numbers represent the production week of the tire like Calendar week 17 in 2018. This 4 numbers are the part of DOT and mandatory properties of all tires issued in EU and US.

[@ConquerDriving]

Thank you.

[@michellehawkins20]

Learn something new everyday 👍

[@MonkeyBurrito]

I never understood why dry steering is such a hot topic in the UK. In the US, no one really bats an eye to the idea of dry steering. There's a time and place for it, it's a driving maneuver that you sometimes have to do.

[@irshadzamir307]

People still think cars r made like they were in the 90's

[@ConquerDriving]

Or long before. There has only been minor increments since the 90s. Go back to the 60s and 70s and there is a hole lot of difference.

[@antons7202]

Physics is the same. Clever people review every technology and understand that the power steering only makes it easier to damage something without having a tiny clue about it.

[@fortheloveof306]

Thank you. I passed my test in November first time after about 60 odd hours with a driving instructor and no other driving. My instructor was adamant that dry steering is ok. Now my hubby drives for 20 odd years all good and well but gets rattled every time by the fact that I dry steer all this is knocking down my confidence at the point that I don`t want to drive with him. I can tell when I dry steer where my wheels point. He wants me to do that while moving to be fair I would love to achieve that and I probably will but I am still very new to driving. I want to demonstrate to my hubby that dry steering is not that harmful for modern cars, this video helps. I will try to avoid it but at times especially when reversing it makes things easier.

[@ConquerDriving]

It's not something that bothers me anymore. I've done both for a long period of time and not noticed a difference. I was taught not to dry steer but started doing it after about 10 years of not doing it.

[@cmg7960]

I'm still learning to drive a car although ive had a full uk license since 1993 for a bike and the thought that you can't turn your wheel before making a turning is bizarre to me. Sure you drive in and get the angle not to change my wheel direction it makes no sense to not dry steer at a stand still or parking situation.

[@MK-gb3rw]

Nice vid, kept me through the whole vid entertained and intrigued in certain parts of the vid

[@ConquerDriving]

Thank you!

[@bentaylor25]

7:10 So dry steering can cause wear to the driver, but your tyres should be fine.

[@ConquerDriving]

😂 Yes wear to the driver! Dry steering makes parking easier and I haven't not seen any difference in tyre wear, there may be a tiny difference but considering what your tyres go through mile after mile turning the wheel when you're stationary is going to be negligible in my experience and opinion.

[@antons7202]

@@ConquerDriving I never do dry steer, still park very easily. Interesting what is the point to purposefully stand still and turn the wheel. Sounds like a beginner.

[@RWoody1995]

@@antons7202 never slightly misjudged your way into a bay, ended up close to the line on one side and want to shift to the side a bit? or found yourself 75% of the way into a parallel park and realised you're going to be a few inches wider of the curb than you'd like? you can either drive out to reposition or simply stop where you are and go to full lock to get that bit more steering done in the small space remaining than you'd be able to trying to do it while moving because lets be real, you're not going from lock to lock within 6 inches of reversing and even if you did you put stress into the system from steering ridiculously quickly anyway so gained nothing!

[@antons7202]

@@RWoody1995 You can always move at the very slow pace, when adjusting the steering wheel. Then there is no need to steer fast and no need to steer at standstill. Have never experienced an issue with it also in the cities, that are very tightly packed with the cars. 20 years of driving with no dry steering, so far so good. To me it is very difficult to justify the _need_ to dry steer. I'd just say it is laziness.

[@kazoobab.l2836]

The first number in 10:22 is the week of manufacture within that year! All the way from Uganda!

[@aimenyacine1660]

I think the first two numbers stand for weeks " for example 1718 =》the week 17 of 2018" Correct me if i am wrong

[@nothingmuch.3014]

That's right

[@ConquerDriving]

Thanks for letting me know.

[@xMcMurderface]

Thank you for this! I understand this a lot better now and I think now knowing how I can do this best (i.e. handbrake off, then only gentle on the footbrake if needed) will really help me with a few situations I've been finding myself in, such as when trying to get in our out of tight spaces.

[@_Adam_S]

Very informative even for an experienced driver 🙏🙏

[@ConquerDriving]

Thank you ☺

[@VSTV1993]

In some cases you have to dry steer i.e. if 2 people blocked you in but dry steering could get you out of it. I know this is highly unlikely but it can happen 🙂 if anything that would be bad is power steering pump having too work harder but it should be lubricated with fluid soo its all good

[@antons7202]

There are exceptions but even then a professional can steer simultaneously with the car rolling ever slightly. It is not a rocket science.

[@safedriverspei8543]

Some dry steering isn’t really a problem. However, it does put considerable pressure on various parts of the steering system., such as the steering rack, inner and outer tie rod ends and tires. Dry steering should primarily be used when parallel parking. Proper bay parking should not require dry steering. Dry parking is likely to occur if a student is taught to count lines for rear bay parking. This should not be be needed, unless a student is attempting to back in a row of empty parking spots. Proper reverse bay parking should not involve dry steering. Guiding the vehicle while moving slowly, is a more valuable skill that will aid in all sorts of reversing situations, such as backing out a driveway without taking up two lanes of travel.

[@damasek219]

Instructors need to learn from you.

[@SoloPro]

Learning so much love these vids

[@yourasoyboy9135]

Cheers for listening to me Rich, keep up the good work mate 👍

[@ConquerDriving]

Thank you.

[@isaacatkybrown]

Cheers Richard, thanks for your help!

[@ConquerDriving]

You're welcome ☺

[@ItsJustDrama]

I just had a lesson, and I dry steered for about a split second and the instructor told me to stop and then lectured me about why I shouldn't do it, and that I'd fail if it was a test.. I drive a 2018 astra so it's pretty modern

[@garyfletcher5707]

Your instructor is correct, car sympathy should be taught.

[@MichaelFlatman]

I've driven / parked lorries (and a fire engine) on private land for my grandad... dry steering is really bad for those heavy vehicles! You can cause the pump's pulley to stop and the belt to scream, or just overload the pump (steering goes heavy and the pump sounds like a mouse begging to not be killed) . These vehicles you can, if you are extremely determined, dry steer them, but 2mph is all it takes, and the huge steering wheel becomes effortless.. Lots of fun driving them around.. Maybe that's where the dry steering myth came from? Cars don't really have that much weight over the front wheels, maybe 500-800kg, compared to 4000kg or so on a fire engine :P

[@ConquerDriving]

I've not driven a lorry, but yes different vehicles have different characteristics. Not many cars have power steering pumps these days. In another 10 years they will be very hard to find as they're all just electric motors these days.

[@girlsdrinkfeck]

also car tyres are much thinner ,not thick wide ones HGVs etc have so less friction

[@antons7202]

The physics of the process is the same regardless of the car or lorry. If you can decrease the friction, it is best to do so. It costs you a slight 2 mph moving forward or backward. The fact that the steering is light does not mean the forces are gone. And no, nowadays it will not break your car, you will just rub your tires against whatever they sit on and rip the road surface out especially on hot days. I wish cities would ban the dry steerers.

[@micheals1992]

The only place I don't like dry steering is in my mum's cul-de-sac. The tarmac is extremely soft and if you dry steer on it it all comes off the road and sticks to the wheels.

[@antons7202]

That is why it is better to avoid having this habit in the first place.

[@michellehawkins20]

I didn't know that about the tyres thanks again 👍

[@avahale4952]

your videos always help xx

[@ConquerDriving]

Thank you!

[@MariusNinjai]

Amazing content even answered my question on up hill

[@EconaelGaming]

My 12 yo Leon does awful creaking noises, if you dry steer while staying on the brake, so if I need the brake while having to dry steer, I've gotten used to pumping the brake, to release those tensions.

[@RavikantRai21490]

But Richard, what about dry steering on an automatic vehicle? Wouldn't you need to have the brake pedal fully down to stop the car instead of using parking brakes?

[@ConquerDriving]

Good point, you can release the brake a bit to help. But it's really not something I worry about when I drive.

[@origraforigraf1303]

Thanks alot for ur helping 🙏

[@ConquerDriving]

It's my pleasure

[@olivermacauley4670]

This helped 🙏

[@ConquerDriving]

Thank you.

[@nssimpson]

It's a shame I can't share photos in this reply. I sat on the drive with my Corsa (its tyres are correctly inflated brand new EcoContact 6's) and dry-steered for about 5 minutes. I rolled my car back and there was a LARGE amount of rubber powder on the ground. The tyre itself was also visibly worn. I'm really surprised just how much damage it caused but obviously my pupils won't be steering continuously in one spot. One thing to mention is this was on flags rather than tarmac and I suspect the flags are more abrasive.

[@ConquerDriving]

5 minutes is a long time, tyres, brakes and clutches wear rapidly when hot.

[@nssimpson]

@@ConquerDriving how was your car doing it 1000 times?

[@RWoody1995]

Continental tyres are also not the greatest when it comes to wear i've heard

[@om251204]

First two numbers stand for weak of that year.

[@ConquerDriving]

Thank you, makes sense.

[@TheSunIsMyDestroyer]

can i do dry steering on an automatic without turning the engine on?

[@Jahmed5635]

I passed last year with over 40 lessons yet o never learnt the basic manoeuvres. Will you be able to show how to reverse bay park?

[@ConquerDriving]

I have a couple of videos.

[@relaxing0130]

What

[@A8845A]

How did you pass then lmao

[@danielteyehuago1633]

Thanks for sharing it

[@_monti142]

i think the first two numbers are the week the tire is manufactured

[@ConquerDriving]

That's right, I have since found that out. Thank you.

[@Justin-hn9uv]

When it comes to cars and driving, there is no shortage of habits and driving techniques that, while being perfectly safe and legal, people insist are damaging the car. Dry steering is just another one. I imagine a lot of people dry steer and if it was a serious mechanical problem (i.e. caused serious damage) manufacturers would be aware of it and would have mitigated it.

[@antons7202]

It is just a bad practice. At the very least you are destroying the road when it is hot. Because you are trying to turn two patches of rubber, that hold the weight of half of the car and create a lot of friction. Also it is not difficult to make a car move ever slightly and avoid the negative effect completely. I just perceive this as highly unprofessional.

[@user-cx5cf4oz6b]

i really need to know how to check Automatic Car Steering and Dashboard during the test

[@icxcnika80]

Hello Richard. If you're on an automatic car and you have it on "P", do you reckon it would be ok to dry steer as long the hand break is down? Or do you think it may add pressure to the car as if I was pressing hard on the break just because I have it on park? Thank you very much, keep up the good work.

[@ConquerDriving]

Thank you. It would be the same as having the brakes on hard. It's not a big problem but I prefer not to.

[@CDBC]

@@ConquerDriving Utter nonsense. The parking brake acts on the rear wheels, whereas the footbrake acts on all four. Keeping your foot on the brake when you dry steer just increases the stresses already being created by deliberately dry steering, when you should endeavour to keep the vehicle rolling.

[@nothingmuch.3014]

I replaced a tyre on a car recently that was older than me, & I'm 17. The tyre still had loads of tread, so it was probably in the boot as the spare for many years

[@ConquerDriving]

I'm not sure how tyres age out of UV light as I believe it's UV that breaks them down.

[@olii9062]

If you're dry steering on a hill, is it better for the car to use the footbrale or the handbrake?

[@ConquerDriving]

It doesn't matter. It's best not to steer with your brakes keeping the car fully still. Reduce the footbrake slightly so it rolls a tiny bit as you steer. Although if you need to steer with your brakes keeping the car fully stopped it's not a big problem.

[@anubhavgupta3370]

Is it Ok to dry steer an automatic car? I normally have the brake pressed to prevent car from shooting forward or backward.. do you recommend putting the car on neutral instead of using the brake?

[@ConquerDriving]

I dry steer automatics, I just release the brake a bit so that the wheels can move a tiny bit.

[@anubhavgupta3370]

@@ConquerDriving i have added this to my routine while driving. By the way i want to thank you for all the content posted on KZbin. I am a new driver (been driving for ~2 months) and your videos have been super helpful.

[@mahfuzahmed9133]

Your personality is nice and you're a handsome Caucasian guy also you're the best instructor, I'll learn to drive when I'm 17 and provisional

[@ConquerDriving]

Thank you for the compliment.

[@firmansyahramadhon8194]

Chill mahfiluz 😂😂

[@Adxmmm]

What 💀

[@andrew9954sffss]

I feel like dry steering is not life or death, but it is definitely an easily preventable bad habit that increases wear and tear on the tires and steering components and pump. At some point it should be taught in drivers training its a bad habit.

[@cmg7960]

what about in automatics as my current driving instructor is telling me not to dry steer ?

[@ConquerDriving]

I dry steer in manuals and automatics. If your instructor doesn't want you to then best listen to them. They don't mind on the test in Great Britain, as long as you have good control of the car. Dry steering can help you have good control as it's easier.

[@cmg7960]

@@ConquerDriving Thanks for the response I thought that would be your answer. I have always been been baffled why people never line up. O've had a full motorbike license since 1993 and im now doing lessons in a car and would be interested in a mock test when im ready, love your channel and all driving instructors channels in general x

[@keith6400]

I cannot see why you would deliberately dry steer when it is easily avoided. The thing with steering is you move and steer and see the result of where you end up, if you dry steer on a test manoeuvre, have you done enough or too little and how would you tell?

[@ConquerDriving]

If you need maximum steer in a tight spot, that's when I would dry steer. It's easy for people who are learning to drive as they have less to juggle, particularly for tight angle starts.

[@antons7202]

Completely agree. Also this adds up to a problem "what position are my wheels in?" and a risk to drive into something not intended. When you are rolling just a little bit, you get a feeling of direction, reduce any possible stress on the steering/tarmac/wheels and just do best practicing.

[@youngblood7308]

My trailblazer doesnt have power steering

[@nssimpson]

Dry-Steering problem to watch out for... I am teaching in a 2019 Corsa. One of my pupil's wanted to spend loads of time practising manoeuvres. Mainly did dry steering. It turns out that after about 20 mins the electric motor cuts out to avoid overheating so there's no power steering for 10 mins ish.

[@ConquerDriving]

I've never experienced that problem.

[@nssimpson]

@@ConquerDriving neither had I. It's going into Vauxhall on Monday so I will be asking. There were no warning lights on the dash.

[@antons7202]

Another logical problem because of the excess of strain to electric motors, that aid the steering.

[@garyfletcher5707]

Dry Steering is NOT recommended by the DVSA. page 55 driving the essential skills. It clearly states may cause damage to tyres and steering. If your instructor encourages you to dry steer they are wrong they should be teaching a skill for life not to pass a test.

[@zzhughesd]

Richard, the exception is your own. Lol. Was that planned maintenance or did another YT reviewer with excellent taste in shirts cause it ?!!!

[@ConquerDriving]

Lock down maintenance, be needing to do it for ages so been spending my time working on the car.

[@Temjennn]

My car doesn't have a power steering 🤣

[@HalifaxPlumbing321]

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leprechaun

[@mahfuzahmed9133]

You're a bit like Ben green from by school, he is a fitness trainer

[@thanosp.8140]

I must be seeing things, you appear a bit more muscular after the test!

[@ConquerDriving]

😂 Pumped!

[@caligula2167]

I was taught to avoid dry-steering because "...if you get rear-ended, you'll get pushed straight into oncoming traffic".

[@CDBC]

Actuallly, when waiting to make a left turn (in a right hand drive country) the idea is to keep your wheels pointed straight ahead in order to prevent being pushed into oncoming traffic (if some idiot rear-ends you). This has nothing to do with dry steering, really.

[@indaylakwatsera516]

I did dry Steering got 4 demerit points 🤦🏻‍♀️

[@ConquerDriving]

It may be different in your country.

[@CDBC]

You're beating your car to death, bit by bit. Just because you can, does not mean you should. The only reason that you're able to dry steer in this video is because you have power steering; in other words, a hydraulic (or electric) pump mechanism that lightens the load on your arm/shoulder muscles remarkably. If anyone doubts this, stop your car on a downhill (where there's nobody likely to come up behind). Turn the motor off. Then try to steer left and right, lock to lock. Unable? Don't worry, that's the exact reason they invented power steering. Now then, as you're on that hill, with the motor (and power steering pump) turned off, try easing up slightly on your brake pedal (ensure parking brake off of course), and then see if you have the necessary strength and ability to control the steering direction. Amazing! You do! If the car/tires are actually rolling, you can do this easily, much less stress, eh? By the way, keep in mind that your power brake booster will only work for two or three applications of the footbrake, and then you'll have to push the pedal a lot harder to keep the car under your control. (Now imagine you're on the motorway, and your fuel and/or ignition just quit - same situation, only easier to steer due to the higher speed, but much harder to stop, due to the higher speed.) When you dry steer, the wear on the front tires is actually negligible; they don't get worn down significantly by dry steering, much more so by accumulated mileage and/or very spirited driving (which will usually be indicated by squealing tires, and so on). If you drive like this on your road test, you will probably fail, because you're an idiot. But a DE won't care if you dry steer, it's not their car that you're abusing! Their job is to determine your ability to drive safely and legally. What is it, with these so-called 'Driving Schools' around the world, who seem to believe that their students actually 'pass the test' is the standard they should be teaching? If that's the best you can do, then find another career that doesn't involve teaching people how and why they should behave on the road. I've been driving for more than fifty years. I hold a Class 1 Driver License. I've held my Driving Instructor license for more than 34 years. I've also worked as a Driver Examiner, and/or Training Assessment Officer, on many occasions. So honestly, I've been around the block. And although the measurements they apply in different jurisdictions will vary the key issues of observation, communication, and vehicle control are what the DE is determining. Here's a true couple of story, and sorry if I'm boring you to death, eh? There was a really big 'driving school' in California who always taught their students to dry steer, particularly as a parallel parking method. After two or three years, they had to replace the steering box in every single one of their 50 Toyota Corollas. Every one, they were no longer safe and would not pass the inspection (equivalent to MOT). Dry steering stresses the power steering pump, the steering shaft (and attached U-joints), the pitman/idler arm, the suspension bushings, the steering box ... need I go on? But, there's more! Seriously !!!! Because, if you learn to drive by properly aiming your vehicle using your eyes (you may not have thought about this, but it's required for all of your forward motion, whether in a straight line, through a curve, or around a corner) then surely, logically, practically, intelligently (I'm running out words that end in ly) the only thing that makes sense when parking or reversing is to put your eyes in the right place (through the back window, using the side mirrors, etc) so that you can instantly witness the result of your steering movement, right? As an analogy, suppose you were to fire a rifle, or a bow, at something, what would you do? Look down the barrel, and then point at the target? Or look at the target, and then bring the armament to your eye? So how the hell are you going to point your vehicle in the right direction, if you're not already looking in the right direction, and allowing your body and your brain to work together as you position that vehicle where it needs to go? OK, I will shut up now and sorry if I've bored you. But I reckon that if you consider yourself a 'Teacher' then you had better have some good reasons to advise your students on what they should do - and why. And if the best you can come up with is 'you have to do this for the test', then go find a better qualified driving school, eh?

[@ConquerDriving]

The car has 181,000 miles and approximately 18,000 hours of use and people say it feels and looks like a new car (I've owned it from new). To put it in perspective if someone drove 30 minutes everyday for 50 years they would have done 9125 hours. Also, learner drivers are doing a lot of those hours. I would say I'm making good decisions as far as car maintenance and car use is concerned. Dry steering does not concern me, I would argue the extra difficultly of avoiding dry steering increses other wear factors and risks, for example extra clutch wear or less control of the speed when trying to learn too many things at once.

[@antons7202]

I completely agree with your wise words. Physics is physics and it is one thing when someone dry steers as a complete novice, and another one is to teach students to have such a habit in principle. This is just a bad practice, but lazy drivers promote it as a solution to inability to drive properly.

[@xuebaskerville3836]

My god you still doing this video at this horrible time?

[@ConquerDriving]

It is a very horrible time on many levels. I have a lot of time on my hands and if I can use some of it to put together some helpful videos it will hopefully help people remember what they've learnt.

[@umbrellaman08]

Learning never stops. What do you want people to do, stop living and hold their breath until the government says go?

[@noj1yt]

Should we sulk indoors and hoard toilet papers?

[@CDBC]

@@noj1yt Why sulk? Lotsa toilet paper around here ... lol