對自由意志的質疑，陶國璋《哲人絮語》40

[@manlau5628]

陶國璋先生, 您好 I very much enjoy watching your episodes, and I think I started in 2017, watching your 林中路, and then 哲學五厘米, and more recently 哲人絮語 I tried to buy your books, but since I have left HK many years ago, I have not been very successful. In 2019, a friend who worked in the Chinese University of HK helped me buy a copy of your 《哲學的追尋》, and posted it to me. Recently I watched your 哲人絮語 episodes about 自由意志 And then I found your 哲學五厘米 episodes about 自由意志, and watched the first 3 ( I think there is a 4th one, but I haven’t watched yet ). In my humble opinion, I think there are many points which can offer fairly different viewpoints from what you have forwarded. Since I do not know whether you are interested in discussing further with me, so I will just briefly describe a few of the points I can think of. 希望陶先生百忙中撥冗賜教。Thanks. ( 1 ) I am not too familiar with the scientific experiments, that before the person pressed a button, about half a second before, impulses can already be detected in the brain, and the impulses supposedly direct the person to press the button. And that seems to be evidence that the person does not actually have 自由意志 But I think it can always be argued that BEFORE such impulses can be detected, the person HAS ALREADY exercised his / her 自由意志, and as a result, it leads to the impulses. So the person DOES HAVE 自由意志 Anything wrong with this argument ?? ( 2 ) You said 神全知論 ( God’s Omniscience ) 和 自由意志論 有嚴重衝突 I think that’s only partially correct. Because I think what is 和 自由意志論 有嚴重衝突 should be 神預定論, not 神全知論 You did not seem to mention 神預定論 Of course this needs to be debated further. ( 3 ) You said 隱蔽計劃論 can explain everything that is difficult to explain, such as “good man dies young”, large number of deaths caused by natural disasters, wars, etc. But I think 隱蔽計劃論 is however 和 another most important Christian teaching 有嚴重衝突 Which is 神是全公義論 ( or you put it as 神全善論 ). I am not a Christian, but I think one of the most important Christian teachings is that 神是全公義的 Which I understand it means : 神 絕不以 有罪 為無罪, 但更 絕不以 無罪 為有罪 Which leads to 2 questions. ( 4 ) Question 1. You have quoted the example of 約伯 at some point. As far as I remember, in order to test 試探 him, one day the Devil 魔鬼 caused all his sons and daughters to die of a certain accident ( and all his cows and sheep, etc. ). But in the end, 神 ‘compensated’ him by giving him even more sons and daughters ( and even more cows and sheep, etc. ). Such a 隱蔽計劃論 obviously has one very big problem. The sons and daughters which 神 ‘compensated’ 約伯 were NOT THE SAME AS the sons and daughters who got killed in that strange accident caused by 魔鬼 To the sons and daughters who got killed, is that Justice 公義 ?? I think very few people will think so. ( 5 ) Question 2. What about babies who got killed in natural disasters or wars, and who do not even have a chance to commit any crime or sin ?? Well, 最後 無辦法, 唯有出 殺手鐧, 就說是 「原罪」 ( mistakes made by Adam and Eve ). If that’s true, is such a God is still 公義 ?? Again, I think very few people will think so. ( 6 ) You mentioned about 天火焚城, the cities should be 所多瑪和蛾摩拉 I remember watching a movie called 天火焚城錄 ( Sodom and Gomorrah ) when I was very little. Quite a good movie. Hope to receive your reply. Thanks.

[@natalieng5545]

感恩陶教授精闢的講解😃

[@taokwokcheung8714]

謝謝回應！

[@manlau5628]

陶國璋先生, 您好 I very much enjoy watching your episodes, and I think I started in 2017, watching your 林中路, and then 哲學五厘米, and more recently 哲人絮語 I tried to buy your books, but since I have left HK many years ago, I have not been very successful. In 2019, a friend who worked in the Chinese University of HK helped me buy a copy of your 《哲學的追尋》, and posted it to me. Recently I watched your 哲人絮語 episodes about 自由意志 And then I found your 哲學五厘米 episodes about 自由意志, and watched the first 3 ( I think there is a 4th one, but I haven’t watched yet ). In my humble opinion, I think there are many points which can offer fairly different viewpoints from what you have forwarded. Since I do not know whether you are interested in discussing further with me, so I will just briefly describe a few of the points I can think of. 希望陶先生百忙中撥冗賜教。Thanks. ( 1 ) I am not too familiar with the scientific experiments, that before the person pressed a button, about half a second before, impulses can already be detected in the brain, and the impulses supposedly direct the person to press the button. And that seems to be evidence that the person does not actually have 自由意志 But I think it can always be argued that BEFORE such impulses can be detected, the person HAS ALREADY exercised his / her 自由意志, and as a result, it leads to the impulses. So the person DOES HAVE 自由意志 Anything wrong with this argument ?? ( 2 ) You said 神全知論 ( God’s Omniscience ) 和 自由意志論 有嚴重衝突 I think that’s only partially correct. Because I think what is 和 自由意志論 有嚴重衝突 should be 神預定論, not 神全知論 You did not seem to mention 神預定論 Of course this needs to be debated further. ( 3 ) You said 隱蔽計劃論 can explain everything that is difficult to explain, such as “good man dies young”, large number of deaths caused by natural disasters, wars, etc. But I think 隱蔽計劃論 is however 和 another most important Christian teaching 有嚴重衝突 Which is 神是全公義論 ( or you put it as 神全善論 ). I am not a Christian, but I think one of the most important Christian teachings is that 神是全公義的 Which I understand it means : 神 絕不以 有罪 為無罪, 但更 絕不以 無罪 為有罪 Which leads to 2 questions. ( 4 ) Question 1. You have quoted the example of 約伯 at some point. As far as I remember, in order to test 試探 him, one day the Devil 魔鬼 caused all his sons and daughters to die of a certain accident ( and all his cows and sheep, etc. ). But in the end, 神 ‘compensated’ him by giving him even more sons and daughters ( and even more cows and sheep, etc. ). Such a 隱蔽計劃論 obviously has one very big problem. The sons and daughters which 神 ‘compensated’ 約伯 were NOT THE SAME AS the sons and daughters who got killed in that strange accident caused by 魔鬼 To the sons and daughters who got killed, is that Justice 公義 ?? I think very few people will think so. ( 5 ) Question 2. What about babies who got killed in natural disasters or wars, and who do not even have a chance to commit any crime or sin ?? Well, 最後 無辦法, 唯有出 殺手鐧, 就說是 「原罪」 ( mistakes made by Adam and Eve ). If that’s true, is such a God is still 公義 ?? Again, I think very few people will think so. ( 6 ) You mentioned about 天火焚城, the cities should be 所多瑪和蛾摩拉 I remember watching a movie called 天火焚城錄 ( Sodom and Gomorrah ) when I was very little. Quite a good movie. Hope to receive your reply. Thanks. @@taokwokcheung8714

[@shumkam2250]

陶老師好，各位好，多謝陶老師分享，多謝！多謝！

[@taokwokcheung8714]

謝謝回應！

[@xiaoqingling1500]

感谢🙏

[@kenso9]

謝謝老師

[@joeviewtifool5791]

感謝陶老師！ 為何人的自由意志和神的全知有衝突？ 先前設，神是完美，人是不完美。 人自知不完美所以希望進步，以神的完美作目標。 神是全知全能所以他是無限無誤。而人是相反，有限不能確定。 人的自由是存在但有限。生命有限、只能吃地球上有的，能在生命中實現的也是有限，在神的預算中的上限。人們只能制定下限。就是不作為。哈哈😄 神能預知人在特定環境人能走多遠，人只能有自由去放棄或者再走下去⋯⋯ 老師，我這樣想有沒有問題？

[@taokwokcheung8714]

謝謝回應！

[@stanleytam9]

請問會唔會討論 佛、道會提及的前世今生？

[@Plagueor]

袁小姐講得好好, 原全打臉神

[@taokwokcheung8714]

謝謝回應！

[@tony04024]

曾經同朋友討論過一個問題，相較於ai(機器學習）到達有咩基準可以判斷人類/ai 係有/無自由意志，人類思考到底同機器學習有無不同

[@taokwokcheung8714]

問題很深刻！

[@LurenJia2200]

点解讲自由意志要引入神呢个概念？可以做多集相同题目，但撇除神去讲会比较好

[@taokwokcheung8714]

謝謝回應！值得再思考。

[@iffong3251]

其實人的命運似係一部電影或電視劇的劇本, 所有人都係劇裡的演員, 只是跟住劇本演戲, 劇裡一定有忠奸角色, 當劇本到你時就會自動埋位, 做你自己一定會跟住劇本做的事, 例如食禁果, 殺人, 被殺, 受傷, 患病, 死亡等

[@taokwokcheung8714]

謝謝回應！值得再思考。

[@charlenewong1227]

如何分辨迷信與無理由相信?

[@taokwokcheung8714]

謝謝回應！值得再思考。

[@PETERPANPIANO]

👍

[@陳大明-y9s]

錯哂 係信心主導論，信就直接從聖靈即上帝取得超越現實邏輯的力量，不論任何宗教包括佛教。

[@陳大明-y9s]

所有天使將協助你，並且惡魔無法窒礙你

[@陳大明-y9s]

長時間無謂思考即是猶豫不決，業力將跟隨你

[@陳大明-y9s]

以為神魔對抗並平分秋色是偽命題，是愚蠢的。有信心必勝，問這個問題都是初級基督徒。

[@陳大明-y9s]

大部分基督徒都需要經歷長時間的挑戰和學習，探求幼苗而不是老樹的意見顯然是緣木求魚

[@陳大明-y9s]

我再重申一次信心是意志絕對不是自由的，你可以將自己思想重新編程，但必須依據系統和說明手冊

[@hoishanchiu2223]

🐒💪

[@taokwokcheung8714]

謝謝回應！值得再思考。

[@AsmLoke]

If god exists n god knows everything and God has planned everything for you (means god knows what is your decision and result) example: you get sick = god give you? Then why never say thanks to god? Your choice to take medicine your choice: your result: take >>> recovered take >>> no die but continue suffer take >>> die or don’t take >>> recovered don’t take >>> no die but continue suffer don’t take >>> die Your love 1. pray for you. if the prayer works it means you influence god's decision?

[@wanyimchan5521]

亞當夏話就係神做出嚟嘅大廠次貨!所以就會出錯喇!

[@taokwokcheung8714]

謝謝回應！值得再思考。

[@wanyimchan5521]

神既然知道過去未來點解做出啲唔合規格嘅嘢?

[@taokwokcheung8714]

謝謝回應！值得再思考。

[@Jack-mm3bl]

誰來懲罰犯錯的鬼神，無能的上帝？

[@raythink]

又係陶國障，dislike無難度。